The following comes from a July 8 story in Crisis Magazine.
One of the reasons that same-sex marriage laws have proliferated so quickly is that their proponents are concentrated geographically in the nation’s power centers: New York, Washington, San Francisco, Los Angeles. Geography can be determinative in politics. Faithful Catholics are numerous, but we’re too spread out. This has weakened our position both as a voting bloc and a lobbying force, and contributed to the perception that our days in the public square are numbered….
As I see it, there are two ways to revive American Catholic political power: (1) re-catechize those Catholics who have migrated away from the faith with an emphasis on fidelity to the Magisterium, or (2) get faithful Catholics to migrate and, by so doing, magnify the effect of their votes. The former has been tried for the last 40 years without success; the latter may not be as crazy as it sounds.
There are 75 million Catholics in the United States, almost 25 percent of the population. Even if only half of us are committed to the Magisterium, that’s more than enough to have a big effect on the political direction of the nation. The problem is that all politics is local and our voting power is watered down by the distance between us.
Libertarians have the Free State Project, which aims to get 20,000 people with an interest in limited government to move to New Hampshire for the express purpose of creating a constituency with some sway in that state’s legislature.
Catholics could try something similar by selecting a state, a county, a congressional district, or even a diocese, and mounting a campaign to get politically engaged Catholics to relocate. If enough do, substantive and faithful Catholic leaders could be elected to public office in that locale, establishing a strong voting bloc and, with any luck, inspiring imitators….
A Catholic equivalent of the Free State Project would be a positive step toward establishing a solid base of Catholic political power in the United States. It would be the first thing in a long time that didn’t feel like defeat. And it wouldn’t take much: there are a lot more Catholics in the United States than there are libertarians….
This is not a job for the bishops. This is a job for Catholics who are interested not just in fighting the battle, but in winning it.
The bishops have valiantly protested the Obama administration’s attacks on our religious freedom, but, sadly, it has not been enough. Their attempts have sought merely to restore an already vanished status quo. The seriousness of the challenge required a more vigorous and wide ranging response. It’s unclear why the bishops have been so reluctant to meet steel with steel….
To read entire story, click here.
“There are 75 million Catholics in the United States, almost 25 percent of the population. Even if only half of us are committed to the Magisterium, that’s more than enough to have a big effect on the political direction of the nation.”
I think the author is dreaming. Over half of “Catholics” voted for Obama; I suspect the Magisterium means little to them.
It’s far better to get the Bishops to shape-up and start courageously promoting and defending the Magisterium in their dioceses. But I guess that’s too much too expect.
tom in san jose: Correction: There are 75 million “nominal” Catholics in the United States. Believing, traditional, “pre-conciliar” Roman Catholics who follow the magisterium can NEVER in good conscience vote for a party that is consumed with abortion, contraception, infanticide, and sodomy. The majority of our present-day Catholic population is not even conscious of how far they have strayed from the truth. This condition is due to the lasting effects of the abomination visited upon us via the second council. The heresies enshrined during this ill-fated “aggiornamento” must first be recognized as such and then vigorously expunged. Thus far, I see no evidence that those responsible have any intention of recovering the old traditions. Bringing back the Latin Mass would be a good start. Even sincere Catholics fail to admit the disastrous consequences of V2.
And most of those “Catholics” don’t ever attend Mass. It is hard to see how they’d be willing to migrate from one state to another for their Church. But Tom, if you think we can depend on the bishops, you also must be dreaming. Most of them are steeped in the liberal feminist, pro gay marriage, and even pro abortion movements. Many are homosexual or are vulnerable to blackmail because of their association with the gay mafia in the Church. The USCCB depends heavily on the Democrats to fund many of their institutions and so called charities, so they will toe the party line especially when it comes to sexual ethics and more especially with regard to abortion and gay marriage. Sorry but the bishops are much more the problem than the solution.
I am not naive enough to believe we can depend on the bishops; I thought I was pretty clear about that. However, as Catholics first and foremost, we have a right to expect more from them since the Church is fundamentally apostolic; there is no getting away from that.
There are also millions upon millions of people who once were Catholic but got so disgusted with the corruption that they left to find God, not being able to find Him where they were at. The Sacraments are important, but when they are used by unholy corrupt bishops and priests to work the laity in evil and oppressive way, then God will provide. God provides Baptism by Desire, as the Church and common sense reveal, and so this would only rationally extend to Jesus by Desire regardless of the foul wickedness entrenched in many areas of Catholic bureaucracy and dark cults hidden from the world, such as the one Mahony was/is running with pedophile cash cows in collars.
Evil bishops are not going to shape up. History shows that general persecutions rise and the bishops and priests are hung from gallows. This allows the Church to rise up anew with holy leaders.
“The bishops have valiantly protested the Obama administration’s attacks on our religious freedom”! What are the folks at Crisis Magazine smoking?
How do they define valiantly protested? I sure hope they don’t mean Dolan!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
I wonder what the author categorizes a “faithful Catholic” as?
He suggest “one of the reasons that same-sex marriage laws have proliferated so quickly is that their proponents are concentrated geographically in the nation’s power centers”: of Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, and Washington. He further suggest that if we could concentrate “faithful” Catholics to a particular part of the country, we can start winning some of our battles.
Here are the most recent posted percentages of Catholics who live in the so called “power centers” of our nation which have helped to proliferate “same-sex laws”:
New York City–Catholics are 62% of the total population
Los Angeles County- Catholics are 40% of the total population
San Francisco County- Catholics are 23.3% of the total population
Washington DC –Catholics are less than 13% of the total population
Another point: the entire state of California has a total Catholic population of 31% as compared to 21% of atheist/agnostics. So how is it that Jerry Brown got a second go around? Now, I know the numbers can be further scrutinized, but none-the-less, how is that Catholic influence working out for us? Of course, this is only a rhetorical question because most of you on this site already know the answer!
Not only that, but Maine and Maryland, which both voted for marriage, are among the highest concentrations of Catholic in the Country. AND most of the countries of the world that have marriage are Catholic countries including the country with the largest Catholic country in the world, Brazil.
Please cut the crap with this “marriage” business. You mean GAY “marriage”. I think we have your opinion on the Magisterium.
YFC, if they voted for gay marriage, then they are not in any way Catholics. Automatic excommunication included bishops who vote for such calumny against God.
Wrong Skai, there is no automatic excommunication for voting for marriage equality.
Ever notice how “the faithful” always leave it to the ones that they look down on to correct things like that. They should stand up for all Church teachings.
YFC, there has never been a vote “for marriage” anywhere in our country. Marriage has always been legal and recognized in our country since its beginning. The only voting that has been going on recently has been in regards to the definition or redefinition of marriage. This debate over the definition of marriage is ONLY taking place because of the intolerance some have of marriage as defined by Jesus Christ!
Stop mocking Jesus Christ our King, His Church, and His Sovereignty!
Tracy, you are partly right. Rights should not be voted upon. I agree with you on that one. But when rights can only be secured through voting, then let us vote for rights until the Constitution is correctly recognized as securing all rights due its citizens.
YFC, lie, twist, divert, lie, twist, divert, lie, twist, divert, lie, twist, divert, lie………………………………
Nowhere! Let me say it again, Nowhere! Let me say it a third time, NOWHERE, did I write “Rights should not be voted upon.” So how can you agree on something I NEVER said nor inferred?!!!!!!!! You pulled that statement out of your sick imagination, so that you could justify spewing out more of your evil propaganda while sadly ignoring the truth of what I wrote!
YFC,
—STOP your Bigoted Intolerance of Marriage!!!!!!!
—STOP mocking Jesus Christ our King, His Church,
and His Sovereignty!!!!!
YFC, Repent and Believe in the Gospel so that you and your descendants may live!
O Mary conceived without sin pray for us who have recourse to thee. And pray for those who do not have recourse to thee especially the enemies of the Church.
Tracy I’m truly sorry I you feel I misinterpreted your words. My intention was a charitable one: to try to find common ground. If I misstated your position, I’m happy to retract what I thought was a possible spot of common ground. Please accept my apologies.
On the other hand, you incorrectly state that there has never been the need to vote on marriage because it has always been recognized as such. Perhaps then you can tell me why the Supreme Court ha to rule 14 times that Americans enjoy a fundamental right to marry, as that right was being threatened by people who wanted to restrict it? The most famous example of this was Loving v Virginia (LOVE her name!), which established the right of people of opposite races to marry.
Interestingly, after the Emancipation, one of the first things salves did was to GET MARRIED. Because, you see, those who wanted to treat them as less than human prohibited them from marrying to degrade their humanity.
Do you see any parallels to our times?
” Perhaps then you can tell me why the Supreme Court ha to rule 14 times that Americans enjoy a fundamental right to marry, as that right was being threatened by people who wanted to restrict it? AND “Do you see any parallels to our times?”
YFC, I do believe that you are hoping that everyone will remain as blind and stubborn and selectively ignorant as you are choosing to be. I do not accept the reasoning that you think you are fooling anyone. I believe that deep down inside you do realize that faithful Catholics will not be fooled by your wicked justifications of sin. This makes your pre-meditated actions all the more evil. I believe that your YFC really stands for “Yearning For Cretins.” The faithful fish will never swallow your hook of putrid and poisonous bait. They will recognize it and reject it. Christ died on the cross for all sinners. Christ taught us to not reject sinners but Christ did teach us to reject the lies and the deceits that sinners often use to rationalize and justify sin.
Logic would tell a faithful Catholic that no matter how many times the Supreme Court votes to protect an evil and call it a “right” it still remains an evil. Slavery was an evil. Abortion is an evil, no matter how many times that the Supreme Court rules that it is a right. There is NO such thing as same sex marriage in the eyes of the Supreme Justice of all Courts. The abomination being referred to as “gay marriage” is also an evil because it mocks God’s Natural Law.
Keep remembering Yearning for Cretins that CCD is a faithful Catholic website and this means there is nothing new under the sun. Here is your modern day parallel to reflect on if you will lift up your personally chosen pair of dark blinders of habitual lies and habitual sin. The majority of spiritual Cretins chose to betray Christ and yell out “Give us Barabbas” or “Give us Gay Marriage” while the faithful chose to remain standing at the foot of the Cross.
Taken from the Prayer Refugium Peccatorum Ora Pro Nobis
MARY, how well you know that mortal sin is the greatest offence against God. The infinite majesty of God is so great that all creatures in heaven and on earth are as nothing compared to Him. Teach me to understand that when I sin, I refuse obedience to God; I rebel against Him, even despise Him. I crucify Jesus anew by my sins, as the Apostle Paul reminds me, for by my sins I renew the cause for which my divine Savior suffered the death of the cross. Help me to understand more and more the malice of sin that I may hate it above all things and avoid it as the greatest possible evil. Let me rather die than commit a willful mortal sin.
REFUGE OF SINNERS, if I have the misfortune to fall into a grievous sin, let me have recourse to you at once. Obtain for me the grace of a sincere repentance and true contrition. With your help let me walk constantly in the way of penance so that as a penitent I may be saved.
PRAYER
O Almighty and merciful God, Who in the Blessed Virgin Mary have given sinners a refuge and a help, grant us, who are protected by her, the forgiveness of all our sins and the blessings of Your mercy. Through Christ our Lord. Amen. (Feast of Our Lady, Refuge of Sinners, Aug. 13)
“the nation’s power centers: New York, Washington, San Francisco, Los Angeles”: These cities should be formed into one single state, and have two senators for this whole state. Same with the next tier group of gay cities.
It all sounds well and good but until the bishops start doing their jobs by publically excommunicating pseudo-Catholic politicians and taking the “Catholic” name away from pseudo-Catholic universities, rid their dioceses of active gay priests, stop being PC in matters of Faith and doctrine, build more schools, stop supporting CRS, etc, stay in their diocese most of the time (forget the USCCB) and stop the “touchy-feely” Mass, things will remain the same.
Bob,
How about here in the Diocese of Orange, Taxifornia where a very pretty young female decided God made a mistake, had her breast removed, is contemplating an operation to have a fake no functioning penis installed (a tube so it can urinate like a man), has the approval of her pastor, and even was Confirmed by what passes for a bishop! Oh yeah, her “parents” approve as well. So much for the orthodoxy of Vann!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
A very good suggestion from Mr. Hennessey. Of course he is speaking of faithful Catholics, not nominal Catholics. He errs in thinking that 50% of 75 million are faithful Catholics. Probably only 30% of these even go to Mass every Sunday, and of this minority, well, most attend what I call the “Hug Your Puppy” Mass.
I suspect that faithful, orthodox Catholics in this country number well under 10 million.
That being said, a Catholic resettlement movement is still a good idea, primarily for cultural reasons. I think targeting a whole state is too ambitious. Better to target a region or diocese of a conservative state, with a friendly bishop, at least one strong Latin Mass community, a tolerably decent public culture, and preferably close proximity to an orthodox Catholic college or religious order.
Interestingly, the regions with the strongest incipient orthodox communities tend to be historically protestant. Other regions, like south Louisiana or some cities in Pennsylvania, are historically Catholic but in various stages of decline. As far as cities go, try these (in no particular order):
Lincoln, NE
Tulsa, OK
Oklahoma City, OK
Fort Worth, TX
Front Royal, VA
Kansas City, KS
Kansas City, MO
St. Louis, MO
Green Bay, WI
Rapid City, SD
Greenville, SC
Coeur d’Alene, ID
Any other candidates?
Houston Texas has a dynamic, orthodox Cardinal who is gradually cleansing the local Augean Stable of his local seminary of its inherited, tenured Liberal faculty.
More significant, he wholeheartedly encourages the new Anglican Ordinariate in his diocese, a “new song” of the Holy Spirit filled with dynamic Catholics–cradle, converted, former Anglicans who care passiontely about winning the culture wars for the Kingdom of Heaven. Houston Texas is a good place for conservative or revert intellectual Catholics. Ane the Anglican Ordinariate is a great base for the New Evangelization. Plus there are jobs for relocating Catholics from elsewhere. (You can’t realistically relocate unless you can support your family in the new place —duh. )
GOOD LUCK, those days are long GONE and the MAJORITY of CATHOLICS are well EDUCATED and able to THINK for themselves!! Be assured, I am fasting for your sucess, that is a sure way to loose weight!!!
TEM, when are you going to join the “Majority of well educated Catholics who think for themselves”?
If we are unable to get Catholics to do some low-impact activity like vote , isn’t it naive to assume that they will uproot their families and move to Catholic enclaves?
Iahreewiththe author –there is no Catholic vote! Islam establishes enclaves and resists assimilation and it is building a very committed voting bloc. They vote and, at some point, they may do more.
A Catholic enclave was proposed a decade or so ago in Pennsylvania, run by a new order created by a sodomite bishop and called St John Society. They wrangled a large tract of land for developing into a housing community for Catholics, ie a village. Two of the corrupt priests running it later fled out of country to avoid prosecution. Memory of details is fading, but wasn’t it Bp Weakland, who admitted to paying a male sex partner $400,000 and claiming it came from his own personal bank account, who crafted the shady pedo ring? This idea about a Catholic enclave defies the Great Commission, and refutes the Pentacost event, and serves only the scare tactics of those who want to follow the pseudo-Catholic movements throughout the ages … Catholic hippy communes, in other words.
Ah, maybe the best way would be for us to find our way to adoration and get on our knees – no need to move, wait on the bishops, calculate the numbers or wait for other Catholics to do something. Get ourselves in a relationship with Christ!!!!
DD
Domenic,
Now you are talking!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
The success of the liberals in the power centers is not so much a function of voting liberal activists as it is a function of welfare recipients continuing to vote for the liberal activists who give them the handouts. This is huge voting bloc that will be hard to overcome. When the Church stopped being the source of community support, ceding it to the government, we lost our influence with that bloc. Time to be the Church again – on all fronts.
Well-educated? Well-educated in what – the ways of the world?
Consecration of the Human Race to the Sacred Heart of Jesus
Most sweet Jesus, Redeemer of the human race, look down upon us, humbly prostrate before Thy altar. We are Thine and Thine we wish to be; but, to be more surely united with Thee, behold each one of us freely consecrates himself today to Thy Most Sacred Heart. Many, indeed, have never known Thee; many too, despising Thy precepts have rejected Thee. Have mercy on them all most merciful Jesus and draw them to Thy Sacred Heart. Be Thou King O Lord not only of the faithful who have never forsaken Thee, but also of the prodigal children who have abandoned Thee; grant that they may quickly return to their Father’s house, lest they die a wretchedness and hunger. Be Thou King of those who are deceived by erroneous opinions, or who discord keeps aloof, and call them back to the harbor of truth and unity of faith, so that soon there may be but one flock and one Shepherd. Be Thou King also of those who are still involved in the darkness of idolatry or Islamism, and refuse not to deliver them out of darkness into the light and the Kingdom of God. Turn Thine eyes of mercy toward the children of that race, once Thy chose people. Of old they called down upon themselves the Blood of the Saviour, may It now descend upon them, a laver of redemption and of life. Grant O Lord to Thy Church assurance of freedom and immunity from harm, give peace and order to all nations, and make the earth resound from pole to pole with one cry: Praise to the Divine Heart that wrought our salvation; to It be glory and honor forever. Amen.
Amen.
In my experience, to most Catholics, the word “Magisterium” might as well be a new model of BMW. They know not what it is, let alone what it teaches. Yes, catechesis is in sad, sad shape and it would be a way to perhaps improve things. But really, many Catholics who know the teachings of the Church simply ignore them in the voting booth. They vote with their wallets, not their souls. It’s a sad thought isn’t it, to believe that your fellow Catholics are putting their finances ahead of their eternity? Moving won’t help. Mass migration won’t work if they vote the liberal line the bishops’ example implicitly approves. The solution is in the lousy leadership the bishops provide. Fix that, and we could start seeing a difference in the voting patterns. Without it we can depend on getting the same old thing.
Ted,
Worse than the ones who put their pocket books ahead of their Faith are the ones who put their disordered sex drives ahead of their Faith when they vote.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Almost twenty five per cent of the U.S. is Catholic? Depends on what your defintion of “is” is.
The Crisis writer states: “The Bishops have valiantly protested the Obama administration’s attacks on our religious freedom,…” I must have been asleep during their “valiant protestations,” and I must have a completely different idea of the meaning of the word “valiant” (such the valiance of perhaps of Fr. Titus Brandsma, or Fr. Maximilian Kolbe). In San Jose diocese, our luminary bishop devotes his editorial columns to even stricter gun control laws (while San Jose is experiencing a record murder and violent crime wave) and to boosting the minimum wage to over $10/hr (which has had the net effect of the laying off or reduction of the hours of entry-level workers). He has also long shown his colors as most friendly to the women’s ordination advocates (he HAD to attend in his full episcopal robes the episcopal consecration of Protestant Episcopal “bishop” Mary Gray Reeves in 2008, clever gesture, PJ! Way to thumb your nose at Rome!) and has proudly supported the LGBT “Emmaus Mass” held around the diocese at several “gay-friendly” Catholic parishes, according to the local LGBT news journal (PJ, good move, another way to actually isolate LGBT Catholic people from everyone else, but use them as an identity group that “owes” you. Clever, clever!) So, if there is valiance in the US bishops, forgive me, but it is over the horizon to my reckoning here in San Jose, and I find it really isnt that different in several other dioceses in N California.
The gays always imagine themselves as valiant.
what????
Other fun and games in this diocese include the “Catholic Green Initiative” and the appointing of “Climate Change Ambassadors”, holding immigration rallies whose key speakers include radical pro-aborts like Zoe Lofgren, etc.
The diocese of San Jose is a disaster zone under Bp. McGrath. Until this man retires, there is no hope for the handful of traditional Catholics left in these precincts. His organ, the Valley Catholic, is a pitiable fish-wrap of a paper, devoid of any substantial Catholic content. Its articles are filled with cant and blather that is almost indigestibly bad. One of its columnist is a socialist from Baltimore pretending to be the champion of the poor; his monthly social justice pitch is annoying and pathetic. Its latest issue features prominently (on the front page) Sister Simone Campbell’s “Nuns on the Bus” escapade in support of the immigration bill. I find this rather odd, since these schismatic sisters have been chastised by the Vatican and told to cease and desist in their left-wing political activities. Evidently the popes’ words have not yet reached the backwaters of Santa Clara County. I suspect they are pointedly ignored….
I like that, Anton, “fish-wrap” (=San Jose Diocese newspaper). However, I would advise refraining from eating any fish so wrapped.. Bishop Fish-Wrap, at that. We have 7 more years of this man (til mandatory retirement @ age 75, he was born in 1945). He also has a strange manner of speaking of Jesus as tho’ Our Lord is an archaic concept, whne required to do so, referring to Him obliquely as “Jesus the Christ” (is there a possibility of confusion with some other Jesus? Jesus Alou, former Giant baseball star? Jesus Franco, the film director? ). Remember, this Bish got in hot water back in 2004 writing in one of his own editorials about the Gospels as “not historical accounts” (= prima facie heretical position, akin to Renan or Loisy). You have to hear Bp PJ talk a bit to catch that “idea”-concept of Jesus our Lord. In contrast, St. Ignatius preferred to refer to Him always as “Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ”, emphasizing the personal relationship of the Exercises, as one who lives and to whom we will owe some day a personal account of our actions.. I think for this bishop, Our Lord & Savior JC is an antique,the Gospels a once-happy fairy tale, and he is hoping for some reprieve from all this pastoral stuff, confirming kids, etc., all a big bore.
The USA is now a secular-pagan country, along with the overwhelming majority fitting into that same category. The first step is for authentic Catholics (and other authentic Christians) to realize that clear truth. The USA is now a mission field, with 80-85% of the population not being authentic followers of Christ. There can never again be anything like a “Catholic” vote unless we start from the foundation and built from there. We must convert the nation back to Christ to have any hope. We have to stop believing that we are living in a mainly Christian population, we are NOT. In terms of how people live, there is precious little true Christianity evident in the USA–that MUST change (start there, be honest, and then move forward).
The Catholic Church of the post-Vatican ll world, is not exactly a true Church, any more! Most of the Catholic clergy, nuns, and faithful, do as they please. Our true Church is gone, and the Magisterium, Catechism, and Code of Canon Law, are either disputed, tossed aside, or forgotten! Do you think the world will believe in God, and follow Christ more, with a Church that acts like this?? No– the world will simply fall to pieces, right along with the Church! No one to guide mankind, morally and spiritually! Seeking to pass secular laws, is not the total answer– the total answer lies with a very strong, faithful, and true Church, very excellent, obedient to God, to guide all the nations morally and spiritually, on a daily basis, to absolutely not allow corruption and sin, and be truly faithful to Christ! We need to be, first of all– a nation of true Christians, to include truly practicing, sincere Catholics, with excellent, strong, devoted clergy, as leaders!!
I am not sure where you go to church but on the Sunday before the 4th of July I was at a parish where the deacon responded to the issues of religious liberty and the Supreme Court rulings on DOMA and prop 8. No one walked; in fact, he was applauded. (Yes, I thought of what Pope Benedict said, too). On the day before the 4th I attended a special Mass for religious freedom at a Cathedral which was SRO. The bishop also addressed the sanctity of human life and the upholding of traditional marriage. No one was tossing aside the Magisterium, Catechism and Code of Canon Law. Your opinion of the Catholic Church may be based on media reports. Look at this website. The Catholic Church of the post-Vatican ii world is not just a true Church-it is the True Church. It is not gone. Actually, to be a faithful Catholic, you must believe in the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I am afraid you are going over to the dark side. Do not fall for heresy.
“The world would hate His followers, not because of evil in their lives, but precisely because of the absence of evil or rather their goodness. Goodness does not cause hatred, but it gives occasion for hatred to manifest itself. The holier and purer a life, the more it would attract malignity and hate. Mediocrity alone survives.”
― Fulton J. Sheen, Life of Christ
Linda Marie, BINGO! You are absolutely right! I disagree with you on one point, our true church is gone! No, Christ said He would be with Holy Mother the Church until the end of time and He doesn’t lie. Yes it is true the modern church has gone into schism and the great Apostasy as predicted by St. Paul in his epistle is a reality today unraveling before our very eyes for those who have the graces to see it. It is like what I believe St. Athanasius said centuries ago during one of the great heretical periods traumetizing but not defeating the Church when he spoke of the heretics: ‘they may have the buildings, but we have the true faith’. The true faith survived and succeeded then and it will today, but not in the modern Church that has gone protestant. The true Holy Mother the Church has come out of the modern day catacombs and is thriving. The original 7 Holy Sacraments still exist(like the Sacrament of Penance, Holy Orders, Extreme Unction) and are practiced as well as many other traditional Roman Catholic rituals. The Tridentine Latin Mass is said by holy priests and sung by beautiful choirs with reverence and focus on Christ’s infinitely powerful unbloody sacrifice on the cross, His crucifixion and death on the cross at Calvary. The true Roman Catholic Church all exists in the traditional Roman Catholic parishes scattered throughout the world, not the counterfeit modern Vatican church which is fading away. Christ said ‘Seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be opened’. Pray for God to show you His way and where to find Him in His holy Roman Catholic Churches.
And you all call the gays heretics. Check out Doug’s heresies! He should be publicly excommunicated for his schismatic words.
YFC, he is a schismatic. I think he is a sedevacantist who follows a schismatic bishop. They tell people that they are the true church and that the Pope is an anti-pope and that we are going to hell for being in schism from them. They are heretics because they do not believe in the one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. They are schismatics because they refuse communion with the Pope. Notice the concept similar to the Mormon concept of the Great Apostasy. 2Thesselonians 2 discusses this but does not use this term. They have exalted themselves above God but they do not realized this. Their sacraments displease Jesus Christ, but they will not obey Him. They use fear to recruit. They are sincere but they are wrong and they have been cut off from the vine. They believe it is God who gives them the grace to see the errors in the Catholic Church, but it is the deceiver and the seducer of men. Pray for them.
Anonymous: “Sedevacantist”? Is that the best you can come up with? “Schismatic bishop? Are you referring to the Pius X Society?
No, SSPX is not in formal schism. I am referring to those who believe that there has been no pope since Vatican II. They believe they are anti-popes. SSPV, CMRI and some independents that call themselves the True Catholic Church.
Anonymous my understanding is that SSPX has given up hope for reconciliation as recently as this summer. They are clearly schismatics who rejected even Benedict’s overtures.
Really YFC? How can one who is blind to the truth call another a schismatic or having a sliver in another’s eye when they can’t see the beam in their own eye?
What are the current fruits from the modern Vatican Church these days? Openess to LGBTs?, widespread disobedience?, loss in the faith by millions of would be catholics?, widespread pedophilia?, liturgical abuses?, consolidating and closings of thousands of parishes?, nearly empty seminaries and convents?, statistics show 2/3rds of modern catholics don’t believe in the Holy Eucharist, and I might add for good blind-cause. Could a loss in sanctifying grace be the reason for the Apostasy that St. Paul predicted in his epistle for these times? Yes I think so, the source of sanctifying grace is the 7 traditional Latin Holy Sacraments, not the powerless man-centered watered down and worse-than just translated rituals said today in the modern churches. So getting back to the fruits again, are there any good fruits today that are as equal in magnitude and offsetting the misbalance from the bad fruits causing the great exodus of millions of catholics joining protestant denominations, becoming agnostics, or becoming atheists?
St Matthew’s gospel, Chapter 7 has some very applicable and revealing information giving cause to believe that bad boys (wolves) can and will mislead the faithful and collaborated by St. Paul’s prediction of the great Apostasy.
From St. Matthew (Douay-Rheims Holy Bible): [14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! [15] Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[16] By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. [20] Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.
[Key here is detecting and admitting to the modern Vatican Churches bad fruit which who can deny? It is time for the misled to wake up and smell the coffee! But that will only happen through much prayer yielding the truth! –Doug’s note]
[21] Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. [24] Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock, [25] And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a rock.
[26] And every one that heareth these my words, and doth them not, shall be like a foolish man that built his house upon the sand, [27] And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell, and great was the fall thereof. [28] And it came to pass when Jesus had fully ended these words, the people were in admiration at his doctrine. [29] For he was teaching them as one having power, and not as the scribes and Pharisees.
Francis I and some cardinals have admitted to sinful lifestyles promoting homosexuality in the Vatican today. Other strange stuff has also been happening there too, in the past and recently more numerous than can be recorded here. Do these actions sound like what Our Lord or St. Peter, or any of the holy Pope Martyrs and Saints would approve of? I believe not. The true schematics are those who defied and turned against the teachings of Christ and the Holy Pontiffs who defended the teachings of Holy Mother the Church up until the 9th of October 1958, their predecessors. Those that are faithful to Holy Mother the Church and her teachings handed down from Christ and His faithful Holy Pontiffs are not deserving to be refuted as schematics.
Apparently I struck a nerve Doug. Intentionally dividing the Church is a very serious thing. I hope you’ll consider the damage that the traditionalists are doing.
Anonymous, Spoken like a true protestant and if I am not mistaken you are a homosexual too, but that is besides the point. We Roman Catholics who practice traditional Roman Catholic sacraments, worship, prayer, and activities do not exalt ourselves above God as we recognize His omnipotence love, fear out of love, and obey Him, following His original teachings. It is those that do not obey Him for whatever reason with their pride that they exalt themselves by their sins. You are very good at twisting words and concepts. We Roman Catholics who follow tradition do believe in one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Roman Catholic Church, as in the days of old we can go from Roman Catholic parish following tradition to another without seeing differences in theology, morals, and doctrine. On the other hand as a former modern Vatican II member, and as evident on the many calcatholic articles comments read these last several years, modern catholics are all over the spectrum, for abortion versus against abortion, for homosexuality versus against homosexuality, don’t believe in Christ’s divinity in the Eucharist versus do believe in Christ’s divinity in the Eucharist, believe in euthanasia versus don’t believe in euthanasia, do believe they are saved without repentance versus do believe that repentance is necessary for their salvation, do recognize sins versus don’t recognize sins (like homosexuality, adultery, greed, pornography, impure thoughts actions and deeds, and etc.,) and by the clergy not correcting sinners, especially politicians, and their internal disagreements on practicing the faith. So you see from the Vatican II flock and by its clergy the modern Vatican II church is not one holy catholic and apostolic. By your fruits you shall know them says the Lord!
Doug, sorry if my post above was too heavy. I am not protestant; I am Catholic. I am not homosexual; I am heterosexual. Everything you and I say depends on what we perceive to be God’s Will. Those of us who have remained in the Catholic Church following the traditional criteria of that Church united with the Pope, will perceive God’s Will differently than those who have followed bishops or priests who have left the Church to follow not the original teachings but those of St Pope Pius V. (Obviously, the original teachings are those recorded in the New Testaments and those found in the writings of the early Church Fathers.) You know the history of the traditionalists; it is not one of unity, is it? The Catholic Church-one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic, the Church founded by Jesus Christ-is the one that is united with Pope Francis. There is no other.
YFC says Doug is a heretic; Anonymous claims Doug is a schismatic. A. Heretics do not have valid Sacraments, Schismatics do. B. Schismatics are not heretics. C. Heretics hold false doctrines, ie false teachings; Schismatics hold true teachings. D. YFC provides no example of Doug’s alleged heresy because his post does not contain heresy … although it is not worded all that well and could be misconstrued by the theologically challenged. E. Anonymous never has much insight into religion other than sentimental levels which are extremely weak on reason, which is also a weak point with Anonymous who always shows that she does not understand how to identify a fact and then build an argument on it.
A clarification if I may please in my last comment regarding Anomynous whether Anomynous is a he, she, or something in-between, when I am referring to you as being a homosexual too, the too refers to YFC who has expressed himself as openly homosexual on this website many times promoting and defending homosexuality. Talk about not obeying the entire lineage of the popes denouncing homosexuality and declaring it a sin, very offensive to God, you homosexuals are trying to change the modern Vatican Church to suit your evil pleasures, and unfortunately you have made some progress, which may God forgive your souls. Pray the rosary that people will receive the graces to see the truth. Our Lady said in her apparitions that in the end times, only the rosary will exist for many as it will be their sole refuge!
I’m up for some comic relief from YFC and A. Please explain to us heterosexuals the following passage in St. Paul’s epistle and please be clear in explaining any of your counterpoints, justifications and alibis. Remember God does not create evil, as He certainly has no intentions to offend Himself. Thank you.
St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, Chapter 1, verses 26-3: [26] “For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
{Douay-Rheims Holy Bible footnote: [26] “God delivered them up: Not by being author of their sins, but by withdrawing his grace, and so permitting them, in punishment of their pride, to fall into those shameful sins”.}
[31]” Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. [32] Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them”.
Now it couldn’t be any clearer than that; and notice what St. Paul said about the sympathizers! And don’t forget those who are trying to deceive the naïve readers on this website and elsewhere that homosexuality is God’s design, NO IT IS NOT, rather IT IS the devil’s design allowed by God to lure souls into hells fire from our earthly test. Beware pro-homosexual professors for our Lord said it would be better for a sinner to tie a millstone around their neck and be thrown into the depths of the sea than to mislead one of His innocent children into sin.
You know, when clobbered with a Bible, the victim is just as maimed as with any other book. But the person of Jesus was all about healing us of our wounds. When you seek to heal as Jesus did, then we can have a conversation.
so self called YFC,
How conveniently you lay aside His commandment to “admonish the sinner”!
May God have mercy on you sin compromised soul,
Kenneth M. Fisher
First of all you must read the whole of the text and not take that section out of context. You will find directly after that passage, Romans 2. Do you understand that this is about salvation? Romans 1 is truth. Romans 2 is truth. All of Holy Writ is authored by the Holy Spirit and can only be interpreted by the Holy Spirit. I pray for you always. I know you do not accept anything from the Church post VII but for the benefit of others reading I will say, that the Church, while standing up for the veracity of Romans 1, says that it cannot be used to explain individual cases of homosexuality.
Annonymous,
Put up or shut up! Show us where the Magisterium of the Church says that Romans I cannot be used to explain individual cases of homosexuality!
May God have mercy on your soul,
Kenneth M. Fisher
I did paraphrase and extrapolate so you are correct to challenge. Persona Humana section VIII says referring to Romans 1: “This judgement of Scripture does not, of course, permit us to conclude that all those who suffer from this anomaly are personally responsible for it, but it does attest to the fact that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered and can in no case be approved of.” Those interested in this should google the document and read the whole of section VIII.
[…] Recovering the Catholic vote […]
Deception is one of the devil’s prime tools, and he loves to twist the words and meanings in peoples minds regarding the Holy Bible. Only the authors of the Holy Bible, i.e., the Roman Catholic Church can accurately interpret the Holy Bible and if you have ever read a Douay-Rheims Holy Roman Catholic Bible, which translated the Latin Vulgate into English you would see our holy ancestors/Holy Mother the Church have/has already written accurate footnotes to clarify very many passages in the Douay-Rheims Holy Bible. Those who do not accept the teachings in the Holy Bible do their best of course to interpret the passages to the best of their advantage to twist the meanings just like the many protestant and evangelical versions of the Holy Bible that are found in many bookstore shelves today. So we only have recourse to LoL at the twisted logic and hold dearly to what St Paul so clearly wrote in Romans I. And once again, who are the true schismatic? Those who drastically changed/whitewashed the nearly 2,000 year long Roman Catholic Church 7 Holy Sacraments, rituals, doctrine, teachings, practices, and disobeyed the nearly 230 + holy pontiffs that defended them, or those who practice the Roman Catholic Church practicing 2,000 years of traditional, obeying the entire lineage of holy pontiffs up to the 9th of October 1958, but disobey those that were disobedient that made the changes during and in the aftermath of Vatican II?
Anomynous, prayers will help you see the truth to the that the modern Vatican II church is not one! Once again look at the great chasm of difference of opinions in the blogs of this website alone! Look at the differences between the princes of the modern Vatican II Church! They don’t agree with each other on faith and morals, letting public sins go un-admonished and not fixing the many problems of pedophilia and extreme modernism like in Austria, the Jesuits, and etc. These are not just local problems but world-wide problems. The devil hates tradition, and will do whatever he can to divide and conquer!
James it certainly seems that dividing and conqueroring is indeed your aim.
The error you are making is applying the passage “by their fruits you shall know them” to the Holy Catholic Church. This passage applies only to individuals. The passage for the Church is the one about the wheat and the tares.
Father Spirago’s book “The Catechism Explained” late circa 1890’s goes into the readings of the Bible and accurately explains them superbly for anyone who would like further unambiguous interpretation of scripture readings. The Catechism Explained is a beautiful source of Roman Catholic teachings can be found for free on the internet using your web browser. Discover your Catholic Heritage and enjoy!
Bruce, thank you for this resource.
While I endorse efforts to get the ‘Catholic’ vote to Vote Catholic, I disagree that ‘we’ should mimic the tactics of the Gaystapo; and not simply because they are Anti-Catholic, but also counter productive.
The Real Choke Point for controlling and manipulating Catholic Voters, is with the bought and paid for ‘free press’, including many allegedly Catholic publications, which fail to do justice to the Whole Truth, in service of PC conformity.
Of course I also think the Editorial policy on what does and does not get ‘reported’ by subsidized outlets like the “Catholic Voice”, needs Change & Oversight. For example, In the past they ran stories about ‘social justice’ forums I had attended at Holy Names (aka homely dames) in Oakland – where the ‘reporter’ glowed over the pogrom, and gushed over the pogromers.
Somehow facts like the President of the ‘kollege’ welcoming the crowd with praise for his guiding influence (Nah – not that guy, even the crosses have been taken down in the classrooms, where you can still see the nail holes) – and the true inspiration for the institution – Saul Alinsky.
– As regards the ability to Defend Our Rights in the face of unprecedented attack on the Constitution itself, the use of “Full Faith & Credit” suits & Decisions (abusing the ‘respect’ shown by State Courts for Decisions in Other States – as part of the interstate comity of Federalism) – launched and rammed through Gaystapo Power Centers like Sodom by the Sea, has proven particularly effective – for them.
However, this success is predicate on an Imperial Judiciary / Legal ‘system’ that is inherently MIsandrist (Hateful to Men & Boys, Masculinity and Normal Heterosexuality) – and thus heck-bent on taking destructive revenge against the hated ‘Y-DNA BioManPigOppressor Patriarchy’, whether or not the state legislature / citizens approve.
In Proposition 8 the Citizens of CA Changed the State Constitution (which has Not been Repealed), but could not even represent themselves before the Federal Courts, after their Blackmailed (‘secret’ Extra Son) Governot ‘Der Arnold’ would not.
In turn – as Justice Scalia pointed out (addressing Law Students directly) in other Landmark Dissents (Romer v. Evans & Lawrence v. Texas, both earlier homage’s to Dred Scott by phony tony kennedy)…
– the Kulture in Law School is so Misandrist as to pervade the places like hot air in august, and it is here that Judges are first Indoctrinated, as students.
As I can attest from personal experience, even the Textbooks used in Constitutional law often Censor Justice Scalia – and particularly remove the Warning to Law Students from a sitting Justice of stellar repute (even his enemies admire his insights) about the pervasive Bias in their so called legal ‘education’.
Sooooo… What good does it do to have an Electoral Edge in one jurisdiction, if an appointed Federal Judge can simply void your case and award victory to another jurisdiction – where his or her friends (present and future) hang out.
Empowerment Starts with Education. Catholic Schools should be Free (financially and politically) to All ‘MIGS’ (Members in Good Standing) – and Schooled by Actual Catholics.
Oh McDermott, you are so full of argle-bargle, I barely know where to begin.
So far, the ninth circuit and the SCOTUS have rejected your pleas to halt CA marriages, and just today, the California Supeme Court did the same. When their ruling on the merits comes down, your arguments will be exposed for their disrespect for our Federal system that they are.
Anonymous, In regards to your Persona Humana section VIII comments, it appears that some homosexuals are not to be blamed for their sins? Does that mean Persona Humana section VIII blames God? God does not create evil; and why would God create evil to offend Himself? St Paul’s Epistle to the Romans Chapter 1 is very clear, homosexuallity is plain and simple wrong and offensive to God. St. Paul certainly would not lie about God, or do you think differently? Who then is defying God, acting with pride? You seem to paint yourself as a homosexual sympathizer. If that is truly the case, how then would you explain verse 32 in St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans Chapter 1: “[32] Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them”. Why is this so hard for homosexuals and their sympathizers to see? Could it be a void in sanctifying grace? Considering recent exposure/admittance of the state of some of the homosexual clergy in the Vatican, is it any wonder that the guilty clergy would author Persona Humana section VIII? Then later Anonymous you claim “The error you are making is applying the passage “by their fruits you shall know them” to the Holy Catholic Church. This passage applies only to individuals. The passage for the Church is the one about the wheat and the tares. ” Prove it please! Show us please, something in writing from one of the Doctors of the Roman Catholic Church preferably! No you are certainly mistaken, “by their fruits you will know” them applies to all individuals or groups whether they are in the church, the clergy, or outside of the church, it is basic common sense and one that our Lord tells us that those with sanctifying grace will see and distinguish good from evil. We need sanctifying grace to know, recognize, and turn away from evil for God does not wish for us to fall into sin; however He does give us our liberty to do so. It all about the purpose of our lives here on earth, to be tested and judged for living with God eternally in heaven, or suffer the eternal fires of hell, not he who gets the most toys at the end of the game of life is the winner as some believe today. YFC, you are incorrect, I am not here to divide and conquer, only trying to wake up those staring into the darkness to what is truly going on. Only those children of God who love, worship, and follow Him obediently in thought, word, and deed will receive those graces, not those who defy God as reflected in St Paul’s Epistle to the Romans Chapter 1 verses 26 through 32. With all the problems beset by the modern Church today like the loss in the faith of millions of once catholics, that if God were walking on the earth, do you think he’d visit the Vatican and give them a pat on the back saying well done good and faithful servants? With their record the last 50 years I am much more inclined to believe God would be admonishing them for their failures in leading the faithful just like He admonished the Pharisees and Sanhedrin. Might I suggest you reflect on St. Luke Chapter 12 when our Lord said: “[51] Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation. [52] For there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided: three against two, and two against three. [53] The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against his father, the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother, the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.” I will pray for you and please stop misleading the innocents that homosexuality is acceptable inside the church and out because it does grievously offend God.
If God were walking on the earth? Jesus Christ is God. He remains on the earth in the Blessed Sacrament not just in Vatican City but all over the earth in every Catholic tabernacle. Homosexuality (the inclination) is not a sin. Homosexual acts are. Homosexual persons are called to be chaste. I think that you should read further into Romans so that you understand what Paul was saying. It is that no man is just. Homosexual acts are not acceptable and cannot be approved. No other sin can either, No man is justified. That is why we need a Redeemer.
Doug – I have one word for you: Paragraphs.
Regardless of what you have to say, it reading the run on block of print produces enough eye-strain, people are not going to bother.
Hence I recommend that you try to be ‘Reader Friendly’ – if you want to be read.
As regards the Troll YFC (youre follin Catholics, Not) – notice how the ‘arguments’ grow more vague, and the ad-hominem (against the individual) attacks more personal, to help make up the lack of substance.
Some say that it is an Alinskyite tactic adopted by the Gaystapo, to not just personally attack the other party – but spread fear to All by attacking Anyone associated with the ‘enemy’.
However – the scam is much older than Saul & stooges, and I think that the Roman Lawyer Cicero (who like his colleagues were fattened by the fall of that society) said it best when he recommended:
“When you have no basis for an argument, Abuse the Plaintiff.”
Thank you Mike I will follow your advise. Also as you can see on those posters that attack points copied from exact duplicates of scripture readings, readings that are so clear that no further interpretation or clarification is needed, that those who defy God are hard-headed and will not change without the grace of God in them. For them it doesn’t probably matter whether I format in more paragraphs or not; however for all others I will follow your advise.
It is pointless to continue arguing against the erred posters false and sometimes heretical points, and it my be construed as a waste of effort in regards to those who defy God; however there is a much wider audience reading these blogs than those who would be better off tying a millstone around their necks and be thrown into the sea for misleading the innocents. I am referring to the naive innocent people that are being deceived by those ( for example these homosexuals and their sympathizers) that defy and mock God. The naïve innocents are the souls the defenders of the Roman Catholic faith must reach and assist them in knowing God’s truth for the salvation of their souls and to have courage to stand up against the evil like homosexuality.
We certainly all need to pray the rosary daily with devotion, fervently, and humbly for many reasons, one for certain is courage to do the will of God even in moments of duress. May God bless you and everyone here on this blog, I have said enough on this subject and rest Holy Mother the Church’s case.