The following comes from a Jan. 28 story in the Washington Times.
At the height of the Cold War, it was common for American conservatives to label the officially atheist Soviet Union a “godless nation.”
More than two decades on, history has come full circle, as the Kremlin and its allies in the Russian Orthodox Church hurl the same allegation at the West.
“Many Euro-Atlantic countries have moved away from their roots, including Christian values,” Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a recent keynote speech. “Policies are being pursued that place on the same level a multi-child family and a same-sex partnership, a faith in God and a belief in Satan. This is the path to degradation.”
In his state of the nation address in mid-December, Mr. Putin also portrayed Russia as a staunch defender of “traditional values” against what he depicted as the morally bankrupt West. Social and religious conservatism, the former KGB officer insisted, is the only way to prevent the world from slipping into “chaotic darkness.”
As part of this defense of “Christian values,” Russia has adopted a law banning “homosexual propaganda” and another that makes it a criminal offense to “insult” the religious sensibilities of believers.
The law on religious sensibilities was adopted in the wake of a protest in Moscow’s largest cathedral by a female punk rock group against the Orthodox Church’s support of Mr. Putin. Kremlin-run television said the group’s “demonic” protest was funded by “some Americans.”
Mr. Putin’s views of the West were echoed this month by Patriarch Kirill I of Moscow, the leader of the Orthodox Church, who accused Western countries of engaging in the “spiritual disarmament” of their people.
In particular, Patriarch Kirill criticized laws in several European countries that prevent believers from displaying religious symbols, including crosses on necklaces, at work. “The general political direction of the [Western political] elite bears, without doubt, an anti-Christian and anti-religious character,” the patriarch said in comments aired on state-controlled television.
“We have been through an epoch of atheism, and we know what it is to live without God,” Patriarch Kirill said. “We want to shout to the whole world, ‘Stop!’”
Other figures within the Orthodox Church have gone further in criticizing the West. Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin, a church spokesman, suggested that the modern-day West is no better for a Christian believer than the Soviet Union.
Soviet authorities executed some 200,000 clergy and believers from 1917 to 1937, according to a 1995 presidential committee report. Thousands of churches were destroyed, and those that survived were turned into warehouses, garages or museums of atheism.
“The separation of the secular and the religious is a fatal mistake by the West,” the Rev. Chaplin said. “It is a monstrous phenomenon that has occurred only in Western civilization and will kill the West, both politically and morally.”
The Kremlin’s encouragement of traditional values has sparked a rise in Orthodox vigilantism. Fringe groups such as the Union of Orthodox Banner Bearers, an ultraconservative movement whose slogan is “Orthodoxy or Death,” are gaining prominence.
Patriarch Kirill has honored the group’s leader, openly anti-Semitic monarchist Leonid Simonovich, for his services to the Orthodox Church. The Banner Bearers, who dress in black paramilitary uniforms festooned with skulls, regularly confront gay and liberal activists on the streets of Moscow.
Although Mr. Putin has never made a secret of what he says is his deep Christian faith, his first decade in power was largely free of overtly religious rhetoric. Little or no attempt was made to impose a set of values on Russians or lecture to the West on morals.
However, since his inauguration for a third presidential term in May 2012, the increasingly authoritarian leader has sought to reach out to Russia’s conservative, xenophobic heartland for support.
It has proved a rich hunting ground.
“Western values, from liberalism to the recognition of the rights of sexual minorities, from Catholicism and Protestantism to comfortable jails for murderers, provoke in us suspicion, astonishment and alienation,” Yevgeny Bazhanov, rector of the Russian Foreign Ministry’s diplomatic academy, wrote in a recent essay.
Analysts suggest that Mr. Putin’s shift to ultraconservatism and anti-West rhetoric was triggered by mass protests against his rule that rocked Russia in 2011 and 2012. The unprecedented show of dissent was led mainly by educated, urban Muscovites — many with undisguised pro-Western sympathies.
“This is the government’s response to modernized Russians becoming more defiant and independent,” said Maria Lipman, an analyst with the Moscow-based Carnegie Center. “The government is pitting the conservative majority against the liberal minority. As a result, raging anti-Western ideology has now turned into something that is almost a state ideology.”
Ms. Lipman, however, suggested that Mr. Putin may be wary of expressing too much support for the Orthodox Church — “a symbol of Russian statehood” — lest it someday challenge his authority.
Some 70 percent of Russians define themselves as Orthodox Christians in opinion polls, and opposition figures in the past have called on the church to play a mediating role between the Kremlin and protesters.
“Because of Putin’s shift to conservatism, the church may feel more emboldened,” Ms. Lipman said. “So Putin does not overemphasize the church in speeches, preferring to concentrate on talk of traditional values. He is wary of boosting its support even higher.”
Read more here.
Christian values, can NEVER be pushed far enough. It would be like saying, “How often should the 10 Commandments be obeyed?” Following Christ is a daily commitment, and not just something to do when it feels good, or when the opportunity fits the situation. To love God means to serve Him unconditionally, all the time. Because of the separation of church and state mentality that Americans have, we tend to divorce all moral and religious values from the public square. When our constitution was written over 235 years ago, practically all Americans were Christian, and believed in God. Things have changed; many Americans no longer believe in GOD, or have a different concept of the deity, and as a result, morality is no longer being enforced. The leader of Russia knows that without God there is no morality, so, by lining himself with the Orthodox Church he is trying to rebuild Russia from the ruins of the old Soviet Union. We should applaud him for his actions, and not condemn him, especially because he seems to be a far better person than most American leaders. .
And I’ve got a bridge to sell ya.
“Because of the separation of church and state mentality that Americans have, we tend to divorce all moral and religious values from the public square.”
Wrong—in so many ways. Tout your religion and its virtues all you want, and lament society’s shortcomings as well, but don’t veer from that to attacking the separation of church and state, a bedrock principle of our constitutional law and a crucial foundation of our freedom.
It is important to distinguish between the “public square” and “government” and between “individual” and “government” speech about religion. The constitutional principle of separation of church and state does not purge religion from the public square–far from it. Indeed, the First Amendment’s “free exercise” clause assures that each individual is free to exercise and express his or her religious views–publicly as well as privately. The Amendment constrains only the government not to promote or otherwise take steps toward establishment of religion. As government can only act through the individuals comprising its ranks, when those individuals are performing their official duties (e.g., public school teachers instructing students in class), they effectively are the government and thus should conduct themselves in accordance with the First Amendment’s constraints on government. When acting in their individual capacities, they are free to exercise their religions as they please. (Students also are free to exercise and express their religious views–in a time, manner, and place that does not interfere with school programs and activities.) If their right to free exercise of religion extended even to their discharge of their official responsibilities, however, the First Amendment constraints on government establishment of religion would be eviscerated. While figuring out whether someone is speaking for the government in any particular circumstance may sometimes be difficult, making the distinction is critical.
The religious right is working to export American-style culture war hate. The far right in America is publicly approving the Russian murder/torture/expelling and harassment of gay men and women. Where are the Orthodox bishops speaking out and denouncing the Russian church for colluding with this regime? Where are the evangelical leaders in the big Christian colleges, the publications, like Christianity Today, and World magazine calling out the evangelicals working to make Putin’s terror acceptable to Americans?
I’m grateful to Senator John McCain for telling it like it is in an oped he wrote exposing Putin. I’m shocked by the silence of people calling themselves Christians, most especially the leaders of the Orthodox Church worldwide, not to mention the anti-gay bigots who run the religious right here in America. Truth is, they can’t get away with the level of hate practiced in Russia against gay people, but I have the suspicion that right wing Christians in America and maybe some of our Orthodox bishops, wish they could similarly crush our gay brothers and sisters here, and are vicariously standing right there next to the skinheads of Russia and putting in the boot on defenseless human beings. All in the name of Jesus of course.
Ron H., you said, “The far right in AMERICA is PUBLICLY approving the Russian murder/torture/expelling and harassment of gay men and women.”
Would you please identify which groups and/or individuals you are referring to when you use the term “far right”. Also, would you please site your source for this assertion. Thank you.
Tracy, see McDermott’s post on this page at February 18, 2014 at 11:14 am. Those would be among them.
YFC, I read Mr. McDermott’s post and unless you have a really fantastic imagination you will be unable to find a single endorsement for “murder/torture/expelling and harassment of gay men and women” among his comments. So again, I would love to know who is Ron H. speaking about?
It does seem, however, that both you and Ron H., are rather intolerant of current Russian law.
Thank you Fr. Karl. Many, many, faithful Catholics agree with you and the Russian Shepherd. America will soon be in ruins just like all other civilizations that turned away from God. Only prayer and bringing souls to Christ will help turn the tide of evil.
Father Karl. What about the Spanish Inquisition? Was that moral and just? Was it ethical to torture suspected heretics in order to win confessions? Was it moral to seize the assets of suspected heretics? Was it, in fact, even moral to criminally punish people for not having the correct beliefs about God?
Would it be moral to compel attendance at Catholic mass by criminal punishment? Would it be moral to rob your neighbor at gunpoint so that you can build a 20 ft tall marble cross in your front yard to profess your faith in the Catholic Church?
Very clearly, you CAN go too far pushing Catholic values.
If you saw the opening of the Olympics you saw women dressed as women in beautiful gowns, and men dressed as gentlemen, and instead of the demonic hippie rock bands they sang opera and danced the ballet. And talk about “family values”, they brought in women pushing baby carriages, and men were kneeling by the carriage playing with the “baby” inside the carriage. He has been encouraging families to have more children, and is against same sex marriage. An enviable thing for a leader of a country! But alas, in the opening of the Olympics they also honored Stalin who killed–I’ve read–“tens of millions it is claimed.”
Potemkin (Olympic) Village:
Taken from Wikipedia
Potemkin Village: The phrase is now used, typically in politics and economics, to describe any construction (literal or figurative) *built solely to deceive others into thinking that some situation is better than it really is.*
Potemkin Village Parish = Most Holy Redeemer
Potemkin Village Families = Denying children their God given rights and blessings of having a mother and a father.
Potemkin Village Marriages = Same Sex Unions
Spiritual antidote to worldly illusions = Obedience to God’s Laws instead of promoting Potemkin Village Laws
Remedy for those who are contrite about promoting laws that disobey and offend God greatly: The Sacrament of Penance/Reconciliation “We should repeatedly use the Sacrament of Penance to ask Our Lord for forgiveness, and to receive the extra graces we need to resist temptation.”
they did not honor Stalin…..they were showing how the country changed from one period to the next.
I DON’T TRUST PUTIN ONE LITTLE BIT.
He may wear a cross, he may attend the Divine Liturgy when it suits him, but to imagine him being the example of Christian values is beyond comprehension.
He runs his country as if it were his personal property.
He uses the Orthodox Church for his own political motives (e.g., to keep the Catholic Church in check, and to persecute other religious minorities in Russia), but he would turn against the Russian Orthodox Church in a minute if it dared stand up to him.
I’m glad he’s talking about “traditional values,” and I pray his country will hold onto those with dear life — but him, I wouldn’t trust if my life depended on it.
The Purges & Pogroms of the Soviets to destroy the ‘Opiate of the Masses’ survived even Stalin – and the Re-appearance of Faith in Russia does not mean it was gone during the dark red years, just suppressed.
However – as is now the case in in the Age of Abomination that is the Homosexualist West – the Homo-Nazi Reich of Ernst Rohm (leader of the Homo-Nazi Terrorist Storm Troopers) and his prostitute protege Hitler – Also Purged Catholics who stood against their Evil (as in The Night of the Long Knives) and anyone else who dared speak out.
Irony Indeed – The ‘Godless Commies’ came to have more Respect for Faith than the forces of Godless Gaystapo Tolerance that now control the most powerful military in the world, in a way that Pederasts like Rohm & his boy toy Hitler could only envy.
MM, Jesus gave us all “The Golden Rule.” You need to follow it to regain what humanity you may have left.
“Our Lady of Fatima warned that if Her requests were not heeded, Russia would “spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated” “But in the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father (and the remaining bishops) will consecrate Russia to Me”. I will still take Putin over Obama any day.
Please DO TAKE PUTIN, Ron!
And settle him in Siberia so the good people of Russia will not have to endure his oppressive regime any more.
Careful what you wish for, Ron, . . . Putin’s KGB, a tyrant, a butcher, and a terrorist. Whatever Obama is (an empty suit Marxist) or isn’t, compared to Putin, he’s a piker.
Hymie; I don’t wish for either. I just believe Putin is less evil that Obama.
Then you’re sadly misinformed.
Under the leadership of Vladimir Putin, it is a crime in Russia to give homosexual propaganda to children. In the U.S., public school teachers are paid to promote homosexual ideals and that nearly any group can be called a family. Putin has Christian values that Barack Hussein Obama disdains.
Actually Russia persecutes anyone who makes any pro-gay gestures in public under this law. Merely displaying a rainbow flag is enought to get one arrested and beaten up by police or by thugs while the police watch. People should never ever be subjected to physical violence for any display expression of speech. I will assume that you didn’t know how draconian that law is. If you did know, you might think twice about saying Putin has Christian values.
YFC, I am not really quite sure what you are so upset about? After all, if this is the LAW in Russia, then, based on your previous post her on CCD, I would think that no matter how severe the punishments for violating their LAW might be, you of all people would be 100% supportive of it. I thought the LAW was the supreme measure of what is right and just in your world view. :(
That being said, are you sure that Russian LAW states that Police in Russia have the right to beat up arrestees and/or prisoners? If this is not the law, then do you have evidence that police in Russia, who might engage in unlawful activity are not brought to justice themselves?
YFC; You make it sound like a bad thing.
Sarah… Also, Putin’s party is preparing a law to sieze the children of gays or people thought to be gay. They pulled it so as to not have an outcry before the Olympics but they say they’ll pass it once the spotlight is off Russia. Imagine being a mother and having your kids taken away to an orphanage and you have nothing to say about it. These arn’t Christian values, they are totalitarian ones!
C & H, children are sometimes seized wrongly in the West. Remember the article about the home school parents in Germany who wanted to leave that country and Germany refused. So please stop the whining. Children have a right to a mother AND a father whenever possible. There is a difference between not having a mother and father by circumstance and parents deliberately depriving a child of such. The latter is pure selfishness.
And C& H, it quite often people like you, who had the benefit of having your own mother and father, who think it is no big deal or just great that other children be deprived of theirs.
Anne even in the example you cite, the children were not seized, but were free to stay with and even to travel with their kids. If you think shedding light on governments seizing children without due process is whining, then you really don’t have the family values you would probably claim for yourself.
YFC, I was talking about women who are deliberately inseminated artificially, especially by men whom they do not even know. It is disgusting and despicable and an injustice to those children. Also, marriages between two men is not only harmful to society but to the men themselves. They are just abusing each other. Certain parts of the body were not meant for certain functions and only lead to more diseases and torn up bodies. Common sense used to tell us that. The Roman civilization fell because of emperors who practiced such things and only survived for awhile because they finally curbed such behavior. If humans do not stop it, God will, and the epidemic of STDs is certainly doing that.
YFC, I find what C&H says very questionable. What she might consider “due process” might not be what some others consider “due process”.
And the children you mentioned were being forced into government schools where they were often being taught things that the parents found immoral and wrong, such as marriage being all right between two people of the same sex. That is government totalitarianism.
C&H says; Children raised in a gay environment is child abuse. Children have a right to a father and mother. Children raised by gay parents are far more likely to be sexually abused.
“Homosexual men are far more likely to engage in child sexual abuse than are heterosexuals. The evidence for this lies in the findings that: Almost all child sexual abuse is committed by men; and Less than three percent of American men identify themselves as homosexual; yet Nearly a third of all cases of child sexual abuse are homosexual in nature (that is, they involve men molesting boys). This is a rate of homosexual child abuse about ten times higher than one would expect based on the first two facts.”
The Russian Orthodox have returned to the Patriarch’s Office in the Kremlin and have established 40 missions recently in the Middle East. Good for them. The Church has criticized the divisive nature of Protestant sects in Russia, many of which destroy religion as they promote immorality.
The correct name(s) for those “missions” in the land of Islam you’re referring to: arms caches, weapons stockpiles, and ammunition dumps. Russia’s “spreadin’ the faith” in Central America too.
Putin will embrace the Orthodox Church and Christian values so lomg as he feels they advance his political agenda and personal power. In doing so, he is mimicking the actions of the butcher Josef Stalin who warmed to the Orthodox Church during bleak days in WWII.
St. Augustine would seem to agree with what Putin is apparently currently doing.
“Let those who say that the teachings of Christ are harmful to the State find armies with soldiers who live up to the standards of the teachings of Jesus. let them provide governors, husbands and wives, parents and children, masters and servants, kings, judges, taxpayers and tax collectors who can compare to those who take Christian teachings to heart. Then let them dare to say that such teaching is contrary to the welfare of the State! Indeed, under no circumstances can they fail to realize that this teaching is the greatest safeguard of the State when faithfully observed.” (“Epis. 138 ad Marcellinum,” in Opera Omnia, vol. 2, in J.P. Migne, Patrologia Latina, col. 532). https://americaneedsfatima.blogspot.com/2013/04/10-steps-to-prepare-for-americas.html
Another former communist nation seems to be following a similar trend. “The Hungarian government is handing public education back to religious institutions.” https://americaneedsfatima.blogspot.com/2013/04/hungary-hands-over-public-schools-to.html
We all have our reasons to distrust Vladmir Putin, but the early Christians kept St. Paul at bay and distrusted him too because he had had so many of them killed before his conversion. Therefore, let us pray for President Putin and that his conversion is for real and for all the Christians of Russia. St. Nicholas of Myra pray for all of us.
Anne T., clearly sound advice.
Check out their abortion rate. It is as shameful as the U.S.
Hank, my understanding is that the Russian government is offering money to those who will have more children. They are not doing this in the USA. One of the problems with abortion and contraception is that it is man putting himself above God, which of course is idolatry. The worshiping a false gods is often the hardest sin to let go of.
Actually, it is “The Lord is in his holy temple; let all the earth keep silence.” My mistake! but the verse is just as good.
The correction by Anonymous was mine. So sorry for the confusion.
Yes, Hank, it is, but perhaps that is what has waken the Russians from their slumber. They are dying out, and the Islamic horde is waiting at their doors, with its radical Sharia Law, including cutting off the hands and feet of thieves. No mercy there! Somehow I find it hard, as a woman, to admire a man (Mohammed) who married a ten year old (Aisha) , at the oldest, when Jews and Christians were waiting for their women to turn at least fourteen before marriage because of earlier deaths. We used to say, “Better dead than red,” but now we say, “Better Christian and dead than Islamic.” and at my age it would be a blessing. I used to be optimistic, but I certainly pray for my grandchildren when I see what they will have to face as I have never seen it so bad in this country. Never the less, “The Lord reigns; let all the earth keep silence.” “All things work together for good to those who are called.”
The completion: “according to his purpose.”
Putin certainly is no saint (yet), but in the past recent years he is much better than the evil person (Obama) elected by the people of the USA.
Obama is lawless (violates the US Constitution with his Executive Orders) , supports the murder of babies for the convenience of others, and loves the thought of sodomy marriage.
The only Putin I like is a nicely prepared Putenschnitzel…
For a really profound Christian novel, read The Brothers Karamazov by F. Dostoyevsky. It can be downloaded for free at the Copernicus Project, where many of the classics of Western Civilization can found. The Russian Nation was always very spiritual. Let them enjoy their emergence from Communist oppression.
Gratias, some might like to read “The Way of the Pilgrim”, too, a small Russian classic about a pilgrim who walked through Russia saying the Jesus Prayer. I have read many Russian novels, but somehow I have never been able to finish “War and Peace”. All the dialogue at the beginning bores me, but I keep on trying.
STATEMENT IN SUPPORT OF THE RUSSIAN PRO-FAMILY LAWS OF 2013 AND 2014
The Coalition for Family Values is a U.S. based international network of loosely-affiliated independent pro-family organizations. We serve the global pro-family movement by encouraging and facilitating cooperation and coordination among pro-family strategists and activists. While geographically, ethnically and methodologically diverse, we share a Biblical worldview, and a commitment to speak the plain truth about the LGBT agenda and its destructive influence on society. Our goal is to promote and protect the natural family as the essential foundation of civilization, and family values as the source and guide to mainstream culture in every society, while advocating reasonable tolerance to those who choose to live discretely outside of the mainstream.
As the 2014 Winter Olympic Games come to a close in Sochi, Russia, we want to praise the Russian Federation for providing much-needed leadership in restoring family values in public policy, and to encourage the governments of the world to follow the excellent example that the Russian government has set in 2013 and 2014 by banning LGBT propaganda to children and limiting the adoption of children to natural families only. By taking these steps in the face of intense criticism and hostility by some Western governments and NGOs, the Russians have demonstrated the high value that they place on their children and the natural family model of society. We believe that God will bless the Russian people for this.
STATEMENT IN SUPPORT OF THE RUSSIAN PRO-FAMILY LAWS OF 2013 AND 2014
The Coalition for Family Values is a U.S. based international network of loosely-affiliated independent pro-family organizations. We serve the global pro-family movement by encouraging and facilitating cooperation and coordination among pro-family strategists and activists.
While geographically, ethnically and methodologically diverse, we share a Biblical worldview, and a commitment to speak the plain truth about the LGBT agenda and its destructive influence on society. Our goal is to promote and protect the natural family as the essential foundation of civilization, and family values as the source and guide to mainstream culture in every society, while advocating reasonable tolerance to those who choose to live discretely outside of the mainstream.
As the 2014 Winter Olympic Games come to a close in Sochi, Russia, we want to praise the Russian Federation for providing much-needed leadership in restoring family values in public policy, and to encourage the governments of the world to follow the excellent example that the Russian government has set in 2013 and 2014 by banning LGBT propaganda to children and limiting the adoption of children to natural families only.
By taking these steps in the face of intense criticism and hostility by some Western governments and NGOs, the Russians have demonstrated the high value that they place on their children and the natural family model of society. We believe that God will bless the Russian people for this.
The Coalition for Family Values will be encouraging our current and future affiliates throughout the world to lobby their own governments to follow the Russian example. While the LGBT agenda has seemed like an unstoppable political juggernaut in North America and Europe, the vast majority of the people of the world do not accept the notion that sexual deviance should be normalized.
It is time that these voices are heard on the world stage before the so-called elites of the Western powers impose their inverted morality on everyone through the manipulation of international law, which they clearly intend to do.
The LGBT agenda has already gone too far, but it is still advancing. We are asking the family-friendly nations of the world to erect a barrier to that agenda in their own countries and in the international community, which can perhaps strengthen and embolden the pro-family movement in the Western nations to roll back that agenda in our own countries.
The future of the natural family is the future of humanity itself. We must not allow the culture of desolation to supplant the culture of life in our societies. Let us pray for healing for those who choose the LGBT path, and (within reason) respect their right to be wrong in their private lives. But let us not allow the LGBT political movement to transform the world in its own distorted image.
MM, your ignorance and bigotry abounds with complete falsehoods about the Gay community in our world today. There are 600-700 billion human beings on this planet. Their presence in numbers is not even noted as a trace amount in the over all population of the world. Procreation is not going to deliver them to world dominance. The only thing they strive for as a minority community is to have equal justice and rights under the law. In our Country that would be the Constitution ( life liberty and the pursuit of happiness ).. That would be the same one you have as a U.S. citizen. In Putin’s case, he is using the Orthodox Church and Gays to divert attention away from his real agenda, and that is to bring back the good old days of Stalin. He will be the new and improved Stalin (“Minnie Me”). Your view is not about family values. For you it is about Bigotry and hate mongering. You supported the ” Kill The Gay Bill in Uganda.” You also support the torture and killing of Gays in Putin’s Russia as well as in the rest of the world while you live in America with the everyday reality of ” Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.” That also makes you a hypocrite as well.
I thought MM would at least blast me for the 600-7oo billion remark. Guess not. Does your family values have any tolerance for other minority groups or do they also have limitations of tolerance as well. Our Constitution will prevail and stop you and your family values organizations as it has down in the past and will do in the present as well in the future of this great country.
Is this what you think God will bless the Russian people for? Is this what you and the Coalition for Family Values blesses Putin and the Russian people for?
In June of 2012 Russian-American journalist Masha Gessen had this to say about same-sex marriage at the Sydney Writers Festival:
“It’s a no-brainer that we should have the right to marry, but I also think equally that it’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist [cheers from the audience].”
“That causes my brain some trouble. And part of why it causes me trouble is because fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage when we get there—because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie. The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change. And again, I don’t think it should exist.”
Here is what When he Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio (now Pope Francis) had to say about queer “marriage”:
He declared that queer “marriage” is a literal diabolical effort of “the Father of Lies” (i.e., the Devil) to “destroy God’s plan…and deceive the children of God.” He said that queer “marriage” discriminates against children “in advance,” depriving them of “their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God.”
He further said that queer “marriage” “seriously damages the family” and that such thinking was an “error” that stood in direct violation of “the natural law and the law of God.” He prayed for the guidance of the Holy Spirit to lead his people out of “the darkness of error” and to “defend us from being enchanted by many fallacies that are tried at all costs to justify the legalization of queer “marriage” and to confuse and deceive the people of good will.”
Oops, I forgot to site my source for the above quotes. https://spectator.org/articles/57238/homophobe-year
The pope did not use a derogatory term to refer to gay people, Tracy. You are putting words into his mouth.
Why do you think there was something bad in what the Pope said, YFC? There are no derogatory terms aimed at those who suffer SSA in the Pope’s words as posted by Tracy. Quite the contrary.
The above quote, rather charitably, implies that the force behind supposed gay ‘marriage’ is diabolical as the institution is a push to confuse the faithful with regard to God’s law and that of nature. A sorry state of affairs that begets increasingly evil consequences for future generations despite how wise and well intended we may be led to believe this new mode of thinking/acting may be.
In context, I’m reading that the Pope is referring to those with same sex attraction as part of the faithful. (That’s surely not offensive) And whereas heterosexuals may be led to false sentimentality with regard to supporting same sex marriage by this sentimental vogue, those faithful who suffer from same sex attraction would be most vulnerable to being led into offending God. (That is highly pastoral)
Isn’t that what we pray in the Our Father, to lead us not into temptation (that is listening to those that would tell us that humans can and should can rework God’s law and the natural law) to be delivered from evil (specifically those diabolic forces that would take the place of God in teaching what is or is not truth).
You seem to be putting bad words into Tracy’s mouth….. or at least trying.
AM The Pope did not use the word QUEER. I DID NOT USE THE WORD QUEER. TRACY USED THE WORD QUEER. She did so in an inflammatory and derogatory manner. Unlike the Pope. The Pope may disagree with gay people on some aspects, but he always uses respectful language. Unlike Tracy.
YFC, for the record, I doubt that Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio made his comments in English. That being said he was not denouncing “merry and lighthearted” people who want to marry. He was, however, referring to those people, who deviate from expected sexual norms, who have an agenda to queer marriage. The latter IS “diabolical” as he so rightly said.
Pope Francis has told us all to STUDY the “Catechism of the Catholic Church”.
Regarding homosexuality – CCC #2357 – 2359. And 2396.
CCC: “2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices. ”
Homosexual acts are MORTAL SINS.
YFC, you are unfairly judging me. Maybe you believe that Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio was denouncing merry and lighthearted people seeking marriage, but I think that it would be clear to most people that he was not!
I imagine that I am not the only person who would think it rather odd that he was really claiming that merry and lighthearted people seeking marriage would be “a literal diabolical effort of “the Father of Lies” (i.e., the Devil) to “destroy God’s plan…and deceive the children of God.”!
Now since the definition of the verb “to queer” means “to destroy”, and men who perform sex with men often call themselves queer, and these are the individuals who are seeking “marriage”, how then can you suggest that I am in any way twisting what our now good Pope said?
If my using the word queer arouses strong emotions in you to the point of anger, then I must admit that I am rather perplexed by this.:(
Forgot name to MM (TD)
Here is another viewpoint on Puten from the Ukraine:
Myroslav Marynovych, 65, the vice-rector of the Ukrainian Catholic University in Lviv, and a founder of Amnesty International Ukraine. He himself was a political prisoner in the Soviet time. (Photo below)
His grandfather was a priest of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and his family was very religious. He attended the Lviv Polytechnical Institute, where he spoke out against the Soviet regime which did not uphold the ideals of Communism. In 1976, he became a founding member of the Ukrainian Helsinki Group, which led to his arrest on April 23, 1977, for “Anti-Soviet Agitation and Propaganda.” The trial and sentencing lasted 11 months, and he was convicted and sentenced to the maximum term: 7 years of hard labor and 5 years in exile.
In 1987, he returned to Ukraine, and worked in an oil refinery and as a journalist.
I met him a decade ago on a visit to Ukraine, and came to appreciate greatly his vision for his country and for entire post-Soviet territory.
Sandra D., we all know that the Soviet Union did some horrible things against others in the past, including starving Ukrainian and other farmers to get their land. Quite frankly, I wished both Europe and Russia would leave the Ukrainians alone to decide their own fate, and stop pressuring them to join either league. Nevertheless, some of the things going on in the West and in Russia by Westeners is wrong, too. For one thing Belgium has now legalized euthanizing children after they are born — a horrific thing; women went to Russia and took off their blouses in front of the Russian archbishop to protest laws against abortion and in one European country a woman actually jumped naked onto a Roman Catholic altar protesting God only knows what, and these people want us to feel sorry for them. Not me! I have lost my patience with such despicable behavior. Let them throw them into jail They do not speak for decent women. I do not care where they are protesting, here, in Europe or Russia. They are flat out wrong and are behaving trampishly.
The United States and the Catholic Church have been under relentless attack from without and within for more than a half a century. And when they err, particularly the country, I see in these pages no quarter given. Very well.
But here are two of the perpetrators of that attack, and all these criminals have to do is bat their baby blues with the perceived daylight of common ground (it’s called propaganda, folks!), and Catholic readers here go all goo-goo eyed like a 13 year old girl at a Justin Bieber concert (or a Vassar coed slummin’ at a Biker gang rally). Disgusting!
Russia is controlled by a very oppressive government. If you speak up against Putin, you end up in the slammer.
The Russian Orthodox Church is in bed with the government, as always, trying to make sure Catholics don’t have any chance to worship in freedom, much less spread the Good News of the Catholic Church — they see US as “heretics” and do their darnedest to prevent us from having missionaries in Russian or opening parishes.
If you are going to slobber over how wonderful some government or country is, don’t slobber over Russia — it’s not worthy.