On Wednesday, Oct. 23, David Daleiden, who revealed Planned Parenthood’s sale of fetal body parts with videos that started to come out in July 2015, underwent a second full day of trial.

The following excerpts of the trial in San Francisco of Planned Parenthood vs. Daleiden, he tells how he came to learn the grisly truth.

(Charles LiMandri represents Daleiden’s Center for Medical Progress. Rhonda Trotter represents Planned Parenthood.)


Q. I skipped over what you learned from the Center for Disease Control. Did they have actual statistics on infants that were born alive, surviving abortions?

TROTTER: Objection. Asked and answered, and leading.

LIMANDRI: He didn’t –

THE COURT: Overruled.

THE WITNESS: Yes, they did.


Q. Okay. And what information did you learn in that regard?

A. So there was a CDC report that became available I believe in late 2012, that documented over a period of years — it was something like five to ten years — slightly under 1,000, I think it was 900 or so, infants who — who were alive after a — after a late-term abortion.


Q. How did the artificial placenta study inform your belief as to whether further investigation was necessary at that point?

(Document displayed)

A. Sure. So the nature of that study is they were submerging these born-alive infants that they obtained from late-term abortions —

TROTTER: Objection, Your Honor. 403. Move to strike.

THE COURT: Overruled.

THE WITNESS: They were submerging them in a tank of artificial amniotic fluid, to see how long they could keep them alive. Some of these fetuses, again, were six months old, of a viable age that you would expect that if an infant was born alive premature like that, they would be rushed to a NICU, to a neonatal intensive care unit. Instead, in this experiment, they were submerged in a tank, and they would see how long they could keep them alive for until they drowned.

So that informed my suspicions that fetal experimentation was a way that exploited even infants born alive, and that potentially viable infants could be killed through fetal experimentation.

TROTTER: Objection, Your Honor. 403. Move to strike.

THE COURT: Yeah. I will strike it. Let’s — let’s keep moving through the sources of Mr. Daleiden’s information, and why he went—

…. A. So Advanced Biosciences Resources is a name that came up frequently, as I was starting to review the available scientific literature in the summer of 2010.

And so what I discovered from reviewing that body of research was that Advanced Bioscience Resources, or ABR, was one of the main supplier companies of aborted fetal organs and tissues for experimentation….



Q. Was StemExpress in the same business, basically, as ABR?

A. Yes, they were.

Q. Okay. The roadmap mentions Dr. Ronald Berman, along with StemExpress. What is your understanding of who he was, of all, then I’ll ask you the next question.

A. Dr. Ronald Berman was both an abortion provider at Parenthood Mar Monte and also the medical director of StemExpress.


I discovered a research study that Dr. Berman had actually published earlier in his career, where he was advocating the use of a particular kind of drug to do second-trimester abortions through labor induction rather than —

TROTTER: Objection, Your Honor. 403. Move to strike.

LIMANDRI: Your Honor, we need to put on a defense here.

THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead.


THE WITNESS: And the kind of drug that he was advocating for specifically was Prostaglandin F2-alpha, which I recognized because it had been mentioned in Suzanne Rini’s book previously as a drug that was very helpful for speeding up the labor induction time, so you would be more likely to — to get a — to get a fetus that was still alive in a later-induction abortion, using Prostaglandin F2-alpha.


A This is just a small cropped version of a full screenshot that I took in 2012 of a special order form on StemExpress’s website, where they had a drop-down menu order form for fetal organs and tissues.

You have one drop-down menu for the kind of body part you wanted. They had about 50 to a hundred different body parts listed. You could get a heart, you could get a heart with veins and arteries still attached, you could get a brain, you could get kidneys, you could get genitals. You could get the scalp. Really, anything you could imagine.

A. So as I started to look into StemExpress in the summer of 2011, one of the first things that I noticed that was a big red flag for me was on their website in their “About Us” section, they said that they would, quote, return a portion of their researcher fees to the clinics that they worked with.



Q. What did Doctor — you’re not going to be surprised by this next question.

What did Dr. Deisher tell you in that regard about the

dorff perfusion study in the Circulation magazine study that you — or journal study that you spoke about?

A. Dr. Deisher told me that the most horrific aspect of fetal experimentation is that most of the — of the organ and tissue demand would require — would require fetuses delivered alive from the abortion, fetuses delivered intact and alive, to harvest the body parts with the freshness and the viability. And in the case of a Langendorff perfusion study, to have a heart that was still beating, because you’d cut it out of a living fetus.

Q. Okay. Thank you.

All right, tell us how the Grantham Collection video informed your state of mind with regard to this investigation.

A. Sure. So the Grantham Collection is an online repository of very high-quality images of children killed by abortion. And also some video imaging.

So the Grantham Collection was something I was aware of while I was working at Live Action. And they actually had a video of a late-second-trimester fetus that had been delivered alive, born alive during an abortion and was still moving afterwards, so was still alive. So that just was very clear visual documentation for me, in the process of doing all this other research. That an infant, a premature infant or a second-trimester fetus — abortion.

TROTTER: Objection, Your Honor —

THE WITNESS: — being born alive through an

TROTTER: Move to strike. Narrative, 403.

THE COURT: Yeah. The last phrase will be stricken. Please go ahead.


A. Yes. Perrin Larton, as the procurement manager of Advanced Bioscience Resources, told me in my conversation with her at ISSCR at their booth in 2013 that as procurement manager, in her work inside the clinics that ABR harvested organs from, she had sometimes seen patients come in for an abortion. And they would get out of the abortion room — out of the operating room, very, very quickly, much faster than she was expecting, while she was waiting for the fetal tissue afterwards. And she would be told that the patient had actually suddenly delivered the fetus in the operating room.

And so — and so she would just get a completely intact fetus for procurement in those situations. And she said that in — as a contrast to — she told me normally, obviously, the goal in a later abortion is not to have a live birth, but then she told me this story about these cases of the patient delivering very quickly in the operating room, as a contrast to what normally happens in an — in a later abortion where you don’t have a life birth. So —



The second really significant conversation that we recorded at ARHP was a conversation that Susan and Brianna had with a woman named Ruth Arick, who said that she was a business consultant for abortion clinics across the country. So basically, someone who used to run clinics, herself, in the past, and was now coaching people on how to run, like, a bigger, more successful abortion clinic.

And they had a really extensive conversation for about 12 to 15 minutes with Ruth Arick about the — just the different kind of business requirements for a successful fetal organ and tissue procurement program to be operating inside an abortion clinic.

And Ruth Arick confirmed a lot of the allegations from the ABC 20/20 episode, as well as a lot of the issues that I have been looking into at that time. She told them explicitly on the recording that –

Q. Why don’t we listen to the recording, and then I might have some followup questions. It’s been marked for identification as Exhibit 5915.


Q. While we’re waiting for them, Mr. Daleiden, to see if they can get the transcript and the audio in synch, it might save some time if you tell us your understanding of the significance of what we hope to be able to play, in terms of how it formed your state of mind in this investigation.

A. Sure. So like I was saying, Ruth Arick confirmed a lot of the major points from the ABC 20/20 broadcast, as well as the other things that I’ve been hearing and researching for the past couple of years there.

She told Susan and Brianna that in order to have a successful fetal tissue procurement business, they should find clinics with abortion doctors who were willing to change the way that they were doing the abortions. She said specifically to find doctors who were willing to over-dilate the patients before the abortion, so to do a bigger degree of dilation than what they would normally do, just for the reason that you would be able to get more intact fetal specimens that way.

Ruth Arick specifically told us that that would be a — that that could potentially present a risk to the patient, and so some doctors might be uncomfortable with that, but basically you should do it anyway if you’re trying to get intact fetal specimens. She said that some researchers were seeking completely intact fetuses at different gestational ages.


Full transcript, Oct. 23 Planned Parenthood trial