The following comes from a March 23 Monterey Herald article by Karina Ioffee:
SAN JOSE — One of the most dramatic trends in American religion is the rapid growth of Latino evangelicals, many of whom are leaving a Catholic church that has long dominated religious life in their homelands.
Though the majority of American Latinos still identify as Catholic, the percentage has dropped from 67 percent in 2006 to about 59 percent in 2013, according to a Pew Research Center study released last year. Meanwhile, the number of Latinos who identify as Evangelical rose by more than a quarter — up from 14 percent in 2006 to 18 percent in 2013, making Latino evangelicals the fastest-growing religious group in the country.
Locally, Latinos who now call themselves Evanglicos say there are several reasons they’re happier at their new churches: being able to participate in spiritual practices, gatherings and festivities that connect to the cultural traditions of their home countries; hearing messages of hope that help them rise above hardships; and finding ways to become leaders as immigrants in a new land.
Also, faith is expressed through joyful, exuberant celebrations accompanied by lively music, and singing that are integral to their culture.
On a recent Sunday, Pedro Galvan, 33, paced in front of parishioners at Richmond’s Iglesia Dios Pentecostal, cracking jokes and throwing out Bible passages, sounding more like a motivational speaker and comedian than a pastor.
“God didn’t give you dreams so you could say, ‘OK, thanks.’ He gave them to you so you could go out there and accomplish them,” he shouted in Spanish as worshippers responded with whoops of “Amen” and “Hallelujah!”
Local Latinos who have migrated to Evangelical churches say they serve as a “second family”: people with whom they pray, do community service, barbecue and celebrate such milestones as baptisms and quinceaeras, gatherings common back home, but not necessarily in the United States, where individualism often trumps community.
According to the Pew study, 64 percent of Latino Evangelicals say they have received divine healing and revelation, and nearly 60 percent said they had seen spirits driven out of someone.
“Pentecostalism speaks to the tradition of supernatural phenomena within many Latinos’ world view and that’s definitely a point of attraction for many,” Calvillo said. “The tradition empowers the individual to engage in the spirit world in their own terms.”
If many (but not all) US Bishops do not do their jobs by accurately and fully teaching the Faith,
and are disobedient to Popes John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Francis – by not encouraging literate Catholics to read the Bible and CCC at home –
what does anyone expect ?
If they do not fully teach Americans, what makes one think they will teach anyone else ?
Catechesis is lousy. If it were not for lousy catechesis, this current Synod would not be necessary.
The Bible and CCC are in many many languages certainly including Spanish.
US Bishops are more concerned about getting money from the Federal Government (grants) to keep their bureaucracies going;
rather than teaching the Faith (or not teaching it – mortal sin of omission).
Jose, you are correct. Catholics who leave the faith just do not know the beauty and the depth of the faith they leave behind, especially the sacraments and the Eucharist. They just don’t know. They haven’t been taught. Very sad.
The (correct) understanding of religion as “supernatural” is a primary element of Pentacostalism. This understanding appeals to Latinos. Of course, the Catholic Church has largely abandoned the Faith, which is supernatural, as embarrassing, and focused on a God that actually sets rules and can ignore the limiting laws of nature.
Catholic clergy — except, curiously Francis — have no belief in anything supernatural about God, seeing Him, instead, as a sort of wise college counselor, or camp-side Kumbaya guitarist. Big surprise coming down the road for these guys.
Instead, the Catholic leadership is learning to enjoy its own smell (to only slightly paraphrase the Pope). Sexual ethics is the new catechism for the Church, with earnest murmurings about the “gifts” of sodomites and the need to “welcome” catamites and all manner of adulterers and fornicators, as if what they do is fine, merely because they repeatedly do it.
Christ certainly went out among sinners and told them of His ability to transfer their lives. But, they need to (1) believe in Him (as He often asked), (2) follow him, and (3) reach out to all Mankind in charity. Of course, Christ never said, or even intimated, that “not judging” others meant that it did not matter what others did. But, the Zombie-Liberals know that, but do not care.
I hate to tell you, St. Christopher and Bob, but some of those Mexican American Evangelicals are politicians who vote for unnatural “marriages”, so not everything is just great in some of these churches either. They have their problems too. Some pick and choose what they want to believe from that Bible they read, and that goes for some other Evangelicals of other ethnic groups.
One Caucasian lady from an interdenominational group told me that fornication meant idolatry but not sex outside of marriage when their Bible and ours and Catholic teaching clearly states it is both — idolatry AND sex outside of marriage as the Biblical pagan god and goddesses did and approved such things. So she, of course, did not disapprove of it in her family, and was not really worshipping the God of the Bible, even though she claimed she did. It is almost humorous how people can so fool themselves into thinking whatever they want when it suits their purpose. Also, many people switch religions, so they can divorce their first husband of wife. That is another whole issue.
On the other hand there are evangelicals and others who are Christ-like people of all ethnic groups.
St. Christopher, the “Church” teaches about the supernatural.
There are 25 paragraphs in the CCC about “supernatural”.
Please don’t blame the “Church” if it is not taught.
Blame – bad leadership.
Blame – bad formation in many seminaries.
I was rereading the Sermon on the Mount recently and came across a passage that I think applies to communion to remarried Catholics issue: “It was said, ‘Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce’; 32 but I say to you that everyone who [ae]divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a [af]divorced woman commits adultery”
Notice how Christ himself CLEARLY indicates that the MAN is at fault for the adultery of the woman. Now, in Hebrew law: 1) only the husband could sue for divorce, and 2) it was almost impossible for a woman to earn a living at the time. This problem would be particularly acute if she had children to support.
Consequently, the Church’s blanket refusal to offer communion to divorced and remarried Catholics does’t seem consistent with scripture. Given that Christ recognizes that a woman in his time could be compelled by circumstance into adultery, it seems that SHE should be eligible for communion.
Women today can usually earn a living and thus may not be similarly compelled into adultery. Yet, some spouses (both male and female) in particular places in the world, or under particularly stringent circumstances might be compelled.
I suspect in most cases such a spouse can obtain an annulment, but I suspect that some people could fall into a lacunae of Church law where it was a valid marriage but they are forced by circumstance into adultery.
JonJ, approval of DIVORCE was written by Moses in the Old Testament because of all the abuses that were taking place “hardness of heart”.
JESUS/GOD brought us back to God’s Commandments regarding DIVORCE and REMARRIAGE in both – Mark 10:6-12; and Mt 5:32
JESUS/GOD about adultery, mercy, and required repentance – “Go and Sin NO more” Jn 8:11.
GOD’s Commandments were written by the finger of God – per Moses.
GOD’s Commandment: “Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery”. – Ex 20:14 ; Deut 5:18.
GOD’s Commandment: “Thou Shall not covet thy Neighbor’s wife”.
– Ex 20:14 ; Deut 5:18
When a marriage is VALID (and the spouse is still living), remarriage is forbidden in the Catholic Church.
It is ADULTERY to have a sexual relationship with the VALID spouse of another.
CCC: ” 1614 In his preaching Jesus unequivocally taught the original meaning of the union of man and woman as the Creator willed it from the beginning: permission given by Moses to divorce one’s wife was a concession to the hardness of hearts.
The matrimonial union of man and woman is indissoluble: God himself has determined it “what therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder.” ” Mt 19:6.
JonJ, there was no “Holy Communion” (Eucharist) prior to Christ – which was instituted by Him.
It is SACRILEGE to receive Holy Communion while choosing to continue to live in the state of Mortal Sin of any kind.
This includes but is not limited to: Adultery (a sexual relationship with the valid spouse of another), fornication, and homosexual acts.
1 Cor 11:27-30 – condemnation for receiving unworthily;
JESUS on ‘Profaning the Holy’ – Mt 7:6.
CCC: 2120 re Sacrilege.
CCC: ” 1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace.
Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must not receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.”
CCC: ” 1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is sorrow of the soul
and detestation for the sin committed,
together with the resolution not to sin again. ”
Those who choose to continue living in a sinful lifestyle are not sorry for their sins, do not detest their sins, and have no resolution not to commit those sins again. Therefore absolution of their sins is not possible.
his interpretation of canon law does not square with Christ’s intent behind the sermon on the mount.
Remember, Christ DOES NOT CONSIDER the woman to blame if she remarries after being cast aside by her husband. The blame in this passage is CLEARLY on the man. If she is blameless for her adultery according to the infallible word of Christ, how is she committing sin?
Consider, she can’t earn a living and the “social safety net” doesn’t exist. Thus, if she does not have family to support her and is not one of the rare women in that era with viable commercial skills, the only ways for her to avoid starvation without finding another man is to beg on the street or become a prostitute.
Are you really going to say that such a woman is sinning? Given Christ’s pretty obvious implication, I say you are being a legalistic pharisee. If she is not sinning, she should be eligible for communion.
While many societies provide many opportunities for women to earn a living today, there are places in the world where that isn’t true. Consider a catholic woman living in ISIS territory. If she is cast aside or abandoned by her husband, what other choice does she have than accept a relationship with an ISIS fighter if she wishes to feed her children.
Heaping blame upon such an individual because you want to be “right” is both pathetic, and unchristian.
You hear it all the time from Hispanics and Anglos; our Pentecostal/Evangelical church is family. They have what we need, whether spirituality, help with addictions, counseling for couples and kids, etc, etc. Their worship services are full of praise to God in a language they understand. Do those churches have the Real Presence? No, of course not! But those churches are Bible based and worship the same God that we do. Why then, aren’t our Pastors willing to change the definition of the parish and how it meets people. Change the Mass? No, of course not! But, where is the Wednesday night Bible Study program, where is the AA meeting, where are the Psychologists for those who need them, where is the gym to help keep the kids off the streets? Effective parishes are family to the members, not just a place to go to Mass. It is a community of like believers, it grows people spiritually, connects people as one, serves the needs of the people and provides meaningful worship opportunities. What is the possibility that if we don’t change how we “do” parish we will continue to lose more and more of our members. I have attended so many Catholic churches for Sunday Mass where I am not greeted at the door and welcomed, or at the end of Mass the Priest can’t be bothered to greet the parishioners as they leave. That never happens when you attend an Evangelical church.
Parish Churches can not be all things to all people.
Our first priority must be Saving the Soul, improving Man’s relationship with God.
And teaching the truth according to the Bible and CCC (-which is sorely lacking).
Most of social services must be handled by local and State governments.
They have the financial wherewithal and the professional expertise. It is there job.
CCC: ” 168 It is the Church that believes first, and so bears, nourishes and sustains my faith.
Everywhere, it is the Church that first confesses the Lord: “Throughout the world the holy Church acclaims you”, as we sing in the hymn “Te Deum”; with her and in her, we are won over and brought to confess: “I believe”, “We believe”.
It is through the Church that we receive faith and new life in Christ by Baptism. In the Rituale Romanum, the minister of Baptism asks the catechumen: “What do you ask of God’s Church?” And the answer is: “Faith.” “What does faith offer you?” “Eternal life.” ”
CCC: ” 2179 A parish is a definite community of the Christian faithful established on a stable basis within a particular church; the pastoral care of the parish is entrusted to a pastor as its own shepherd under the authority of the diocesan bishop.”
It is the place where all the faithful can be gathered together for the Sunday celebration of the Eucharist.
The parish initiates the Christian people into the ordinary expression of the liturgical life.
From the Bible
Bishops who are too busy with politics, government fund raising, and public affairs – do not have time to govern their own Diocese – correcting wayward Priests, correcting wayward Catholic politicians who cause Scandal, and teaching the Faith fully and ACCURATELY in entirety to all Catholics.
So then the Laity has to take on the Bishops’ job of correcting wayward Priests, and wayward Catholic politicians, and teach the Faith fully and ACCURATELY to the best of their ability.
Many Priests need retraining by their Diocese Bishops regarding the TRUTH of the Faith –
Bible and CCC (not their personal opinions).
Liturgy and Sacraments (no adlibbing);
and their responsibility to teach all the Laity accurately and completely in accord with the CCC.
Bob One, you have great expectations – some of which have nothing to do with the responsibility of Parishes Churches.
Let parishes do their own jobs – Save Souls through the Sacraments and teaching of the Faith.
Social Services are government responsibilities. And you are confusing them.
AA meetings, Psychologists, and gyms are the governments responsibilities.
This is what tax dollars are for.
In addition, the purpose of going to Mass is to worship God, not for a social with others. And this has been lost with liberals.
Too much socializing is distracting from God, and annoying.
Do not let any more paganism creep into the Church.
Jesus said the GREATEST COMMANDMENT is “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind:. Mt 22:27.
And too many liberals have put people first, and God second.
CCC: ” 2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship.
It remains a constant temptation to faith.
Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God.
Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God,
whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc.
Jesus says, “You cannot serve God and mammon.”
Many martyrs died for not adoring “the Beast” refusing even to simulate such worship.
Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God. “
The job of the Church is to help people save their souls is an accurate statement. Before it can do that, however, it must have the people to save. When you look at the data (it is in various census studies) there are many reasons people join a Parish or other denominational congregation. Seldom is theology the initial reason, that comes later. People search for churches that have good music programs to which they can relate. They search for great sermons that are helpful to their lives. They search for good programs for the kids, including child-care and PK-8th grades. They search for a place to become part of the worshiping community and to be community. We traditionalist find this hard to accept. But, the parishes that are growing faster than the population growth do these things instinctively. Read the comments of Fr. Richard below. How does a parish grow from three hundred families to 1,300 families in only a few years in an area with no new home building? They offer more that a place to go to Mass on weekends. While our liturgy is the summit of our prayer life, a pastor must also deal with the realities of the lives of the people. Some say that all of the extras are the job of the government, yet yell when government tries to do something. Subsidiarity starts at the home parish. Does it have CYO programs for the youth as well as interesting faith formation classes?
Pete: “Social Services are government responsibilities. And you are confusing them. AA meetings, Psychologists, and gyms are the governments responsibilities. This is what tax dollars are for.” WE, THE CHURCH, would have no need of these government services, IF WE slid over in the pews and actually LIVED what the Catholic Church Teaches!
Agreed that we have no need of them within the Church.
My answer was in response to Bob One, who thinks Catholic Churches must have AA, Psychologists, and gyms to keep Mexicans Catholic.
Far too many people confuse the roll of the Church – Saving Souls,
with the role of the government.
Providing psychologists and gyms and AA meetings is the role of the government? And you though I was a socialist!!
It is easy to see why someone new to a culture or facing many hardships would be drawn to evangelicalism — there is more feeling of involvement and emotional support. People get pumped up and feel good. But true religion, and by this I mean traditional Catholicism, is not just about feeling good or what we get from it.
It is just as much or more about what we are there to give, which is worship to God.
We have not heard much about this since Vatican II, since even Catholicism is now more about participation and “feelings”. So sad.
CCC: ” 2135 You shall worship the Lord your God” (Mt 4:10).
Adoring God, praying to him, offering him the worship that belongs to him, fulfilling the promises and vows made to him are acts of the virtue of religion which fall under obedience to the first commandment. “
…”being able to participate in spiritual practices, gatherings and festivities that connect to the cultural traditions of their home countries; hearing messages of hope that help them rise above hardships; and finding ways to become leaders as immigrants in a new land.” — What Catholic Church were they attending before in the U.S. ? These things are EXACTLY what the Catholic Church does to attract them, in my experience of five decades as a cradle Catholic in Texas. Mass/Cursillo/Stations of the Cross etc. in Spanish, December Guadalupe novenas, quinceneras, hearing messages uplifting them and telling them they are the future of the Church and the country in the U.S. … What kind of parallel universe are they living in ? Their “traditions” even seem inappropriately to be lifted to the level of sacraments. For example many times I have seen the quince’s listed on the front of church bulletins under the Sacraments section. I have also seen more than once a parish music ministry present a music workshop for weddings AND quince’s at the same seminar. If I were getting married at such a parish I would positively REFUSE to attend such a workshop. Quince’s are blessings, not lifelong solemn vows. They also involved little fourteen year old girls who are just turning fifteen on the day of or close to the day of the quince’. Marriage (supposedly) involves adults.
Sometimes their “traditions” become superstitions.
” What Catholic Church were they attending before in the U.S. ? ”
Destruction of Unity within the Church.
Let’s go back to Latin so that we all will understand each other regarding worship – anywhere in the world.
(Latin worship always had and has the vernacular next to the Latin for understanding.)
Let’s go back to adhering to GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) for the OF Mass, or 1962 Missal for the EF Mass – anywhere in the world.
When US Bishops do not teach the TRUTH of the Catholic Faith in entirety – and do not teach people to read the Bible and CCC –
With few exceptions, all we see is a bunch of politicians masquerading as high ranking Clergy who are promoting their own earthly agendas.
People want TRUTH. They want a Religion they can count on – not teaching relativism, gradualism or other heresies.
They do not want wishy washy leaders.
They want all the SCANDALS by Cardinals & Bishops to STOP !
They want all Bishops (and their Priests) to enforce Canon 915 for those obstinate in public mortal sin.
” Meanwhile, the number of Latinos who identify as Evangelical rose by more than a quarter — up from 14 percent in 2006 to 18 percent in 2013, making Latino evangelicals the fastest-growing religious group in the country.”
If Pope Francis, Kasper, Danneels, Forte, and other hand picked minions who surround the Pope get their way by allowing those who are choosing to be in Mortal Sin go to Communion (Sacrilege) – there may be a huge schism.
This is what the infiltrators – the Masons want. I wonder how many of them are inside high clergy ranks ?
We certainly know they have their share of homosexuals.
The best things that could happen at the USCCB is that they no longer apply for and receive government grants.
CCC: ” 2138 Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God. It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic.”
CCC: ” 2111 Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes.
It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary.
To attribute the efficacy of prayers or of sacramental signs to their mere external performance, apart from the interior dispositions that they demand, is to fall into superstition.”
Are these Mexicans seeking God, or social parties?
The article makes it sound like they do not have a relationship with God, and they are happy not to have one.
They would be better off in their own Country.
But US Bishops and their support for no border controls – know best.
“Are these Mexicans seeking God, or social parties?”
You are to something Maria. I might add, “Are these Mexicans seeking God , or personal power?”
I agree Maria.
However, I think some of the benefits some people attribute to Latin Mass seem like superstition.
JonJ, explain yourself.
Never bad mouth either our Catholic:
ORDINARY Form (aka OF, Novus Ordo) of the Mass, or our
EXTRAORDINARY Form (aka EF, Latin, Traditional) of the Mass.
When either Liturgy is said as required, both forms of the Mass are Holy.
Vatican II – “SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM” – “# 22.3 Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.”
The liturgy of the Ordinary Form of the Mass must adhere to GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) of 2011,
The liturgy of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass must adhere to the 1962 Roman Missal.
This goes for both Priests and the Laity.
Reading posts does not mean all posts are accurate. Some posters on a Catholic web site at times are not even Catholic but are trolls who badmouth our Holy Mass and Sacraments.
Or some may be Catholic heretics and/or schismatics.
Legitimate complaints are when a Priest and/or the Laity do not adhere to GIRM or to the 1962 Missal as required.
Catholic witnesses to abuses must offer correction to the offending Priest, and if that does not work to notify the Diocese Bishop.
Behavior of the Laity at an OF Mass: https://www.praytellblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/2011-Pastoral-Letter-with-Decree-Bulletin-Insert.pdf
The Catholic Church has abandoned its Faith and Morals– so, there is nothing left, for sincere, orthodox Catholics! They are unwanted! How many Catholics will leave the Church, after the final Synod on the Family, next October?? Only the immoral, “liberal leftists,” will stay, along with the Pope– as the Catholic Church of today, clearly discourages all enthusiastic, orthodox, practicing Catholics, and their families!! As for Hispanic Catholics?? Their traditions were all sadly discouraged, after Vatican II!! Where is the traditional love and veneration, for the Virgin of Guadalupe?? At Vatican II, the Church Fathers clearly discouraged traditions of veneration of Our Blessed Mother, stating this to be an impediment to ecumenism! Our religion must be properly taught and passed on, traditions and all– or it cannot succeed!! As for the evangelicals?? Many of these preachers are not trustworthy, they are only good entertainers, with little to offer, of true, serious, Bible-based Christianity!! Sadly– this unstable, false kind of emotionally-based “religion,” never lasts!
Linda Maria, Pope Francis has repeatedly come out against weddings between two people of the same sex. He came out against it in Argentina and recently.. Recently he referred to the pushing of such things as demonic, so there really is no excuse for those who are pushing it and/or other immoral behavior. They will twist what he says to their own damnation, as they do the Bible and Catholic catechism. Of course some on the extreme right do a similar thing, take his words out of context. We must be careful not to fall off too far to the left or to the right. Virtus est in medius — in medius stat virtus. (Virtue is in the middle — virtue stands in the middle.
“Lord give me wisdom, the attendant at Thy throne,” from the Book of Sirach.
Ann T wise words…you are a holy woman! God bless you always!
Well, Abeca Christian, thank you for your words, but the Lord is still working on me and is not finished with me yet. He is still chiseling away molding me into what he wants me to be I hope. Occasionally I, too, go off the deep end. Sometimes I tell others the same words I need to hear for myself.
Anne T. Since none of us know each other – it is always best if you provide an official link on any statements attributed to the Pope one way or the other.
All of his statements are on the Vatican web site.
This goes for all who quote the Pope or attribute actions/statements to him.
A year ago the pastor of a neighboring parish asked me to help hear confessions in Spanish. When I entered the church it looked like a Baptist church; all the kneelers were gone, and the statues in an alcove. The Blessed Sacrament was hiding in another corner. While I was hearing confessions there was a prayer service going on, with loud fiesta type music. Three of the penitents told me that when the immigrants first arrive in the United States, they are pious Catholics. But a couple of years later, they see that the Protestant service is just like what they see going on in the Catholic Church, so they join the Baptist or other churches because ‘there are no rules to follow’. So basically, in a nut shell, the liturgical changes especially the inculturation are partially responsible, along with Marxist theology, for the Hispanics leaving the Catholic Church.
Father Karl is exactly right.
If the Joyful Church of Francis would promote public praying the Rosary, exposition of the Holy Sacrament, processions, the yo pecador confieso, and some Latin and perhaps the persignation of “por la señal de la Santa Cruz + ; de nuestros ene+migos; líbranos Señor Dios nuestro; en el nombre del Padre, del Hijo y del Espíritu Santo +” the exodus would be fixed. (This last prayer is what generations of Hispanics started and ended their day with, so there is a free tip for the V2 church to turn the tide of Protestantism).
I have worked in ethnic parishes for 23 years. As soon as people come to the U.S., they have way more money and choices, better and worse, that they never had before. They encounter a license to think and do whatever they want, just like Americans among whom they are now living.
The result often is to be like Americans and put money before faith, personal interpretation before Tradition, to live and or be sexually active out of wedlock, to be more material than spiritual. The pervasive ambience of Catholicism that was in their countries to guide a people externally is not here, and if many have not internalized the Catholic faith, they leave.
Non Catholic Christians, particularly those who have left the faith, are active in proselytizing these new immigrants. Many have never learned their faith and, just like American ex Catholics, the article shows the draw toward fuzzy doctrine, entertainment styled worship, among other things that people value more than Truth, Word, and Sacrament.
We welcomed everyone at my former huge parish to the degree of faith that they had and led them deeper. We grew the CCD program to 1500, had classes in Spanish and English, worship in both languages, celebrated all the customs from their countries, had 450 baptisms a year, 600 first communions, 250 confirmations, 80 weddings a year. We had perpetual adoration, twice daily confessions, many parish groups with different apostolates.
Bravo, Father Perozich! The parish you described is one all pastors should strive for. It won’t be if the Mass and sacraments—and, of course, preaching— is “me’ centered rather than God-centered. I have no way of knowing, but I’d still bet a lot of money that the “hymn” that begins “We are here to tell our story…..” wasn’t heard in that parish. God bless you and your work.
Father is right. Also Latino’s take their faith for granted, since many are Catholic where they come from, they come here and are then introduced to new views from the protestants, and since they do not know their faith well, its easier for them to question their faith. My grandparents knew their faith well but many Catholics in their neck of woods, their faith was a given, they felt that they just needed to go to Mass, receive the sacraments and that is all, they were not taught to learn the bible, even though they heard the message as Mass, many do not even understand the word of God, just like the old days, that is why we have many abuses today, because in the old days, before my time, their faith was a given but when the modern day Jesus freak movements came, many Catholics where not prepared to defend their faith because no one had to back then because there where more Catholics, but with V2, our generation, we are encouraged to read the bible and the CCC….Latino parishes that encourage reading of the CCC and the bible, are thriving. Just last week my mom’s friend, a good Catholic, was reading her bible and was talking to my mom about some things she was reading from the CCC. She was a Catholic elder who didn’t live her Catholic faith until just recently. It was nice to see an elder Latino Catholic read the bible and talk about it with excitement. Her OF parish pastor must be doing something right!
If you build it, they will come. A church built on Christ with reasonable demands for faith according to the Bible and Tradition, Truth, Word, and Sacrament, and an advancement in spiritual life will draw people away from the mundane. If anything goes, the movement will die. A church built on rock will stand; one on sand will collapse. If Catholics, native born Americans and immigrants alike, are taught, challenged, and guided rightly, most will stay. The wolves will pick off a few, but the shepherds and prodigal fathers need to look out to take them back when they find emptiness in these new sects.
Fr. Richard, what you describe sounds very much like a Pentecostal/Evangelical church. You give your parishioners a reason to belong and to grow in faith in a way that is relevant to them. Bravo. What you describe is not a typical Catholic Church.
Bob One, I fear you are correct that many Churches in the USA do not adhere to Sacred Scripture, the CCC, Code of Canon Law,
and GIRM – for the Liturgy of the OF Mass.
I don’t know if most Priests have had bad formation, or are merely dissident.
The same is true of some Cardinals and Bishops.
I have read many times in the comments sections of CCD, mockery of parishes that have Mass in Spanish, because they feel it it should be in Latin or English. I have read dozens of articles here on CCD about ILLEGAL immigrants, in capital letters, and the comment boxes rapidly fill up with condescending criticism of bishops who try to minister to immigrants. When the bishops went to the border and gave communion through the fence, you would have thought they were giving communion to the devil himself.
These attitudes permeate much of American Catholicism. They were also prevalent when the Irish came to America too, and we are lucky that the evengelical movement wasn’t so strong then, or we’d have lost the irish too. When you read articles about Latinos leaving the Church, it might be useful for us to reflect on whether we have reached out to them and welcomed them, or whether we made them feel as though they were taking something away from us that we think is rightfully ours. Just a thought.
YFC, ILLEGAL immigrants are different than LEGAL immigrants. (Caps so you will understand the difference.)
Immigrants per the CCC are required to OBEY the Law, and this includes immigration laws. – CCC #2241.
CCC: ” 2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able,
to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin.
Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions,
especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption.
Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them,
to obey its laws
and to assist in carrying civic burdens.”
We should welcome LEGAL immigrants, ILLEGAL immigrants who disobey and disrespect our laws.
The USA is no longer prosperous – over $18,000,000,000.00 in debt, not to mention State debts in the hundreds of billions.
The real US unemployment rate is at 12% for US citizens and legal immigrants per Bureau of Labor Statistics which also includes those discouraged and no longer looking for a job.
But these Bishops don’t care about the facts or the CCC. All they care about is keeping the pews filled for more income.
Dottie, you prove my point precisely well. Those immigrants – whether they are here legally or not – are people. Most of the time they come here because they see an economic opportunity that will improve the lives of their families. And most of the time, these people are Catholic. Priests and Bishops who want to minister to their flock regardless of the state of their souls or their immigration status are doing the right thing. Worrying yourself over what you think they are taking from you is one of the things that drives them away from the Church. Genuine concern for them and their families might help keep them inside. But you aren’t interested in their souls, you are only interested in keeping what you think is rightfully yours.
The whole issue needs deeper study than this article can provide. I suspect that the draw of fiestas and the like is far from the whole explanation of evangelical attractiveness to Hispanics. At the very least these statistics should be a warning against smugness about the reliability of third world Catholicism for the Catholic Church. Is there any reason to imagine that the falling away which has been happening in the West will not spread to Africa, Asia, and Hispanic America?
Father P, ” just like Americans among whom they are now living”. This is true.
1) Who’s job was/is it to accurately and fully teach the Faith to Americans ?
2) Who’s job was/is it insure that all Seminaries in the USA insure proper formation?
If we correct the problems at their source,
what you suggest not merely for ILLEGAL immigrants or legal immigrants but for Americans.
The Catholic clergy have made themselves totally ineffective. If it weren’t for the reality of the Mass, most Catholics would not go to Church—they would especially avoid all homilies.
When is the last time you heard a priest even mention the Catechism? When is the last time you heard a priet define sin? when is the last time you heard a priest explain why Catholics can not embrace contraceptives? When is the last time you heard a priest speak about adultery or chastity?
It is so long ago, I can’t remember.
The combination of poor catechesis and “going through the motions” liturgy
makes the emotion-charged protestant drivel look too good to far too many. Increased involvement on the part of the laity has not been the answer. Why insist on continuing what amounts to a failing experiment ?
Solutions ? More priests who lead by example. More lay people who are more interested in making a contribution to the community instead of trying to be a “big shot” in the parish. It seems a matter of focus to me. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
I have a great idea to stem the conversions: let us take the tabernacles (called sagrarios in Spanish) and move them from behind the altar to a side wall just as Pope Francis has in the Santa Marta guesthouse. That will teach the Protestants that we too can be casual and joyful and they will come home bringing their tails behind them. Or we could sing Taste and See and Old Black Joe.
More seriously, if we offer insence, Gregorian chant, and do not hold hands during the Our Father to form a human chain, preach about Hell and Purgatory and sin and salvation, and end the mass with three Hail Marys, the new immigrants will feel more at home.
Hispanics are incultured to devotions to the Holy Mother but our ecumenic efforts to recruit Protestants who have never joined us since the disastrous Vatican Council II prohibit this in the USA.
Gratias, you are less than forthright in your comment. There has never been a reduction in devotion to the Holy Mother in the U.S., of which I am aware. Parishes all over the country have large rosary groups that pray before weekday Masses, thousands meet around the country for Marian convocations, millions gather for parades and worship to our Lady of Guadeloupe a patron of the U.S. church. Let’s have more incense in a culture that doesn’t approve of perfume? Really? What you are suggesting is that we do more of what hasn’t worked in the last 50 years. How will that help.
In Mexico in many parishes they have kept a shorter version of the Leonine prayers after low mass consisting of only three Hail Marys and then you march off. It really works. Same with communion by intinction, there are no female Eucharistic ministers and everyone receives on the tounge in both species.
Of course that the devotion to the Holy Mother in the USA is minimal, minimal in the reformed American Church. The Rosary is hardly prayed before mass and processions with the statue of the Madonna are a thing of the past. This resulted from ecumenical Vatican Council II’s efforts not to offend Protestants that resulted in no new Catholic converts but many defections under the Liberation Theology reformed mass in Latin America.
I would like to apologize to Bob One for misspelling incense, which Hispanics associate with sacrifice of the mass.
I always try to be forthwright when posting in this unique forum of dedicated Catholics.
This failure has to be laid at the feet of the leadership. For decades, at least in the diocese of Phoenix, Hispanic Catholics were ignored and given the active but tacit “ok” by “progressive” priests and a certain former bishop to go and explore evangelical faiths, that as “Vatican II taught”, there was no one true Church.
Card. Oscar Andres Maradiaga—as just an example—current Cardinal-Archbishop of Tegucigalpa, the capital of Honduras, during his tenure (since 2001) and prior to that a bigwig in CELAM, the utterly ineffective and self-praising episcopal conference of Latin American Bishops since the 1990’s, has seen the Catholic population percentage of his country go from about 90% (about 1970) to roughly 49% in the most recent surveys available: and he is promoted to a senior advisory post in the Synod on the Family: he believes in ending the permanency of Catholic marriage. This is antithetical to evangelical belief, and will accelerate further the defections from the Catholic Church. So many other “leaders” in our Church are anything but zealous for the Faith.
As Cardinal Mario Luigi Ciappi, Vatican sacred theologian to 5 popes, who actually viewed and commented regarding the Third Secret of Fatima, and famously wrote: “In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.”