According to notices in Sacramento’s St. Francis parish bulletin, parishioners have been meeting “to create a new direction for strengthening the Catholic community of Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgender, Queer/Questioning parishioners.”
A two-hour meeting is to be held on Saturday afternoon, January 12, from 3:00 pm to 5:00 pm in the St. Francis Parish Center, formerly the church convent. Parishioners wishing more information were advised to call Jan Seaman at the phone number 873-4844 shown on the parish bulletin.
Jan Seaman is employed by the Sacramento Gay and Lesbian Center in an executive and professional capacity. She is a retired faculty member of California State University Los Angeles. Her faculty biography on the Cal State website states that her marital status is domestic partner. Her partner’s name is shown as Mary.Marks.
Mary Marks is the chair of the St. Francis parish council.
Seaman is the grants and education coordinator of the Sacramento Gay and Lesbian Center. The center has among its activities programs that attempt to affirm the “gay lifestyle” for young people (ages 13 and up). The executive director of the center boasts that it is developing to “shepherd future generations through self-discovery and self-acceptance”.
St. Francis parish has been known as a parish whose influence reaches far and wide. The Welcome page of the St. Francis Parish website notes the parish has members from over 100 ZIP codes, coming from 60 miles or more to attend liturgies.
The parish celebrated Dignity Masses for homosexuals and large funeral services for homosexuals. The Dignity group went underground some years ago; it was replaced by the Gay and Lesbian Journey.
Information about the Saturday program at St. Francis was brought to Sacramento Bishop Jaime Soto’s attention on December 28 via email, fax, and a hand-delivered letter to him.
This communication urged him to cancel the event at St. Francis, noting that there was sufficient time to place a cancellation notice in the Epiphany Sunday, January 6 St. Francis parish bulletin.
Another notice promoting the event did appear in the St. Francis parish bulletin for January 6, Epiphany Sunday.
What is a Questioning Parishioner???
“Questioning” is a “gay” code word. Questioning refers to those individuals (not just parishioners) who may not be sure if he or she is “gay”. For example, a 14 year old who has feelings for both sexes, or who lives in a chaotic household with little or no good parental guidance or role models. These young people are constantly bombarded with music, film and TV characters (and politicians) who extol the “gay” lifestyle. They are most vulnerable to the recruitment techniques of “gay” and lesbian predators – maybe like some who work in the gay and lesbian centers around the state, including Sacramento. St. Francis Church, in “partnering” with the Gay and Lesbian Center and Ms. Seaman, is referenced in Matthew 18:6: “….it would be better for anyone who leads astray any one of these little ones (children) who believe in me, to be drowned by a millstone around his (or her) neck, in the depths of the sea.”
DOES ANYONE CARE about protecting Catholic children and young people and Catholic parishes from Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgender, Queer / Questioning (LGBTQ) indoctrination in parish catechism classes and schools throughout California and the USA now and in years to come???
DO YOU BELIEVE that the California Catholic bishops and their liberal bureaucrats can or will effectively EXPOSE, BLOCK, AND COUNTERACT this LGBTQ indoctrination of Catholic (and other) children and young people in public and Catholic schools and catechism classes???
Catholics must TAKE ACTION to EXPOSE, BLOCK, AND COUNTERACT this LGBTQ indoctrination of children and young people!!!
REAL CATHOLICS living in the Sacramento diocese MUST attend this St. Francis parish event on Saturday afternoon from 3 to 5 pm, to know first-hand about what the St. Francis parish bulletin called: “seeking a fully inclusive complement of parish supports” for acceptance of LGBTQ lifestyles and behaviors.
IF NOTHING IS DONE to expose, block, and counteract these programs, they will spread their pernicious influence throughout the Catholic church, and bring GREAT SPIRITUAL, SOCIAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL, EMOTIONAL, and PHYSICAL HARM to children and young people.
DO NOT EXPECT that Bishop Jaime Soto is going to stand up to the LGBTQ influence and political pressure alone!!!
REAL CATHOLICS must become informed and take ACTION!!!
REAL CATHOLICS MUST COME to the St. Francis Parish Center this Saturday, January 12, from 3 PM to 5 PM and learn first-hand of the LGBT infiltration of the Catholic Church!!!
The St. Francis Parish Center is located on the north west corner of 26th and K streets in midtown Sacramento.
REAL CATHOLICS MUST give clear, prayerful witness to the true life-affirming teachings of the Catholic Church.
“BUT BE DOERS OF THE WORD, and NOT MERELY HEARERS who DECEIVE themselves.” James 1:22
Those who cannot be present at the Sacramento St. Francis Parish Center from 3 to 5 PM on Saturday, January 12 are URGED to contact Sacramento Bishop Jaime Soto.
Telephone: (916) 733-0100
FAX: (916) 733-0195
Most Reverend Jaime Soto,
Sacramento, CA 95818-2541
But see, here’s the thing…some REAL CATHOLICS actually happen to be gay.
Wrong no one is gay… it is lifestyle choice. A real Catholic would try to reject those serious sins….especially if its one of their temptations. So your comments are wrong and surely you are misinformed. You have bought the lie from the secular. The truth will set you free.
Amazing, or is it? Maybe the Assembly speaker goes there.
None of this is a big surprise, all the major metropolitan centers seem to have such churches and that includes NYC where the USCCB boss is. There can be no doubt that the bishops know of these churches and the priests who are pastors of these churches have obviously not been told to stop.
Between these churches and the catholic (small “c” on purpose) universities, it’s obvious that the majority(?) of bishops cannot or will not control their dioceses. Their failure causes grave scandal.
Not only “grave scandal”, but think of what their sins of ommission in not controlling these scandalous events causes to their Eternal souls! This is exactly why I once told my friend, the late Bishop Austin Vaughan that I did not believe most of his fellow bishops actually believed in Hell.
God bless, yours.
It appears that the promotion of the LGBT agenda by St. Francis parish has the blessing of Bishop Soto. The Bishop gave his stamp of approval to the homosexual and pro-abortion members of the legislature, so why wouldn’t he approve it on the parish level? Since St. Francis parish boasts that the parishoners come from 100 zip codes and as far as 60 miles away, Let those people support the parish. I would not attend there nor give even a cent to support its evil LGBT agenda.
Sarah do you know for a fact? Did Bishop Soto really give his stamp of approval?
The bishop was the MC of the event. He warmly greeted “gay” legislators and even gave John A. Perez one of those kind of half-hugs that guys give each other. Most of the legislators there were pro-abortion and there were several “gay”legislators there besides Perez. Right in the front row, in a place of honor next to Perez, was Toni Atkins, a former abortionist, who is radically pro-gay. How much more honor do we have to give charter members of the Culture of Death?
Lin thank you for making me aware. All this is very sad.
After the widespread sex abuse scandal, it is completely unacceptable that a Catholic parish would be complicit with the endorsement of sexual immorality and debauchery. The correlation of homosexuality and pederasty is undeniable. And yet they have ‘Dignity’ masses! With Satan running amok in this parish, will the bishop have the courage to end this travesty?
Who is the Bishop?
SoCal, see the 12:58 a.m. posting above yours. Jaime Soto is the Bishop.
PS: Please read the CalCatholic article from Monday, January 7 titled “NEWS ALERT” for more facts about the Sacramento Diocese’s pro-gay activities.
What we have here is a lack of excommunication!!!!
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8. Larry from RI’s Latest and Greatest Comment on California Catholic Daily Posted Today January 10, 2013 at 3:07 am
Larry from RI says:
“What we have here is a lack of excommunication!!!!”
Yeah, that’s a useful phrase, Larry from RI. I’ll try to remember to use it, “What we have here is a lack of excommunication”.
Larry, you have offered up a gem to us all! I love it and am planning to use this again. I don’t know where the original phrase came from, but I think it goes, “What we have here is a failure to communicate.” So I’m going to reword your clever line a teensy bit and hope I remember to say, “What we have here is a failure to excommunicate.” Boy, think of the many times we could have said that in recent years! I think your gift to us must be given a special place of honor on the living room mantle but taken down and used whenever appropriate.
“What we’ve got here is a failure to communicate” is a quotation from the 1967 film Cool Hand Luke made by Paul Newman’s character. The tweak of using “excommunicate” is great…but I like using all the other original verbiage. Makes a great line.
At least Bishop Soto is permissive. Whether you are looking for a Latin Mass, a conservative Novus Ordo Mass, a progressive Novus Ordo Mass or a Gay Mass or a Lesbian Mass, or anything in between, you can find them all in his diocese. A little something to please anyone and everyone. The spirit of Vatican II is still alive and well in Sacramento. Really, the good Bishop is only following the example of Pope Benedict XVI, and you can’t fault him for that, can you?
I called an got directed to the lay Chancellor’s Voice Mail. I left a respectful but firm message. We will see if I get a promised call back.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
“A little something to please anyone and everyone” especially SATAN!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
You are not being remotely fair, here. Bishop Soto took it on the chin for his fervent and courageous support of Proposition 8, and he continues to advocate for the Church’s position on controversial issues, including those involving homosexuality. I don’t know why he’s not done anything about this parish, but I’m sure this course of action is taken in consultation with Archbishop Cordilione, who’s no slouch on these issues either. They’re not condoning, they’re choosing their battles very, very carefully. Do some research before you jump to conclusions.
Kell, I sincerely hope you are correct in your assessment of Bishop Soto. But his track record of doing nothing about the sodomite infiltration of his parishes both in Sacramento and in S. Calif., and going back many years speaks for itself, and can hardly be characterized as “jumping” to conclusions.
How are thse comments aging? I hope your grandchildren see the fear mongering and bigotry that you posted here in 2013 and decide that maybe it’s best NOT to let the grandparents see the grandchildren unsupervised.
This is almost unbelievable. Here we have a city named for the Blessed Sacrament, and we have its Cathedral and beautiful Franciscan churches being corrupted by the Culture of Death. Sacramento Bishop Jaime Soto appears to be powerless to stop the onslaught of the gay agenda that is intent on recruiting young people into a most deadly lifestyle. Pray that Bishop Soto attends this meeting. Perhaps if he is there the enemies of the Catholic faith will temper their evil plan. But perhaps it will not…….We know that in centuries past, it has been the laity that has fought the heresies of the age. It looks like that time in our age is now. The promotional of homosexuality has become a heresy in the Catholic faith. Catholics need to go to that meeting and by their presence let Bishop Soto and the Franciscans know that our Church cannot be a haven for those who want our children to become sexual playthings for agents of death. Maybe some faithful Catholics can get their pastors to go to the meeting. If priests and some of their parishioners attend, maybe that will convince Bishop Soto that his actions must acknowledge and support Christ’s teaching to obey the commandments…..Sacramentans, we must save our young people from the Culture of Death promoted by the hands of the compromised Sacramento Diocese.
A Distinguished Franciscan priest I knew once told me that at his California Franciscan meeting over 60% of those in attendance admitted to being sodomites!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Worse than I thought, Kenneth.
I’m quite sure no one at that meeting identified themselves as “sodomites”.
Of course they do not want to identify with sodomy. That’s why “gay” works so well. It hides the “works (and words) of darkness”. It’s just like the pro-aborts blather on and on about “choice”. It beats killing the unborn, and the term pro-abortion.
Can you really picture Christ calling His beloved children “sodomites” or “pro-abortzzzz,” of any of those others hateful words? Don’t you get that you’re tossing them around because you’re getting a hate buzz off of using them? Everytime you call another human being a “sodomites” or a “pro-abERTTT,” Satan chuckles in triumph.
Well they are anyway…..
Jesus never hesitated to call ’em like He saw ’em. How about Matthew 12:34: How can you utter anything good, you brood of viters, when you are so evil?” And Matthew 23:33: “Vipers nest! Brood of serpents! How can you escape the condemnation of Gehenna?” Those are pretty powerful words to me.
Do I really need to point out that you’re not Christ? The parts I remember are about not calling each other “fools” (I have trouble with that one) and about dealing with the logs in our own eyes… Hey, I’m all for pointing out confusion to the clergy and asking for clarification (as I have from Bishop Soto several times over the years,) but wallowing in mean-spirited self-righteousness is just using sin as an excuse to sin.
Kell Brigan, what some fall to mention is that some of them are pushing some pretty sick, sick stuff here in California and telling children think it is okay although most of the innocent children have not a clue as to what they mean by the term “gay”, which most often means practicing sodomy.. Some of the parades are filled with filthy behavior and many people have had enough of it. What DO you call such people when they are beyond “gay’. Two men putting their private parts in an excretionary offus is NOT normal and never will be, and if anyone tells the truth about it, we get called names worse than sodomites. Wake up, Kell, wake up. No child has two mothers or two fathers. It is biologically impossible, unless the Frankensteinian scientists fool with nature in a laboratory.
Anne T. I’m not talking about homosexuality, I’m talking about self-indulgent, counter-productive, dehumanizing self-psuedo-righteousness. Calling someone a “Sodomite” (or, a “pro-ABORTTTT’ — as if their stance on abortion somehow negates their humanity — or indulging in any other of the shallow, dirt-stupid, oh-so-delicious-when-spread-over-your-EGO insults) is itself a very, very big sin. Anyone who uses the word “sodomite,” or any other ridiculous hate speech doesn’t give a hoot about the family, or children, or the health of the country, or, especially, about the well-being or salvation of anyone caught up in same-sex attraction disorders. All they care about is indulging their I’m-so-superior-I-get-to-decide-who’s-still-human EGO disorders. Wake up, Anne!
KENNETH, it’s amazing how all your friends seem to be “distinguished.”
and how did your buddy KNOW that 60% of those other franciscians were homosexual?
I’ve met some of them. One, at St. Francis in Sacramento even wore a “pink triangle” on his robes.
A correction to line two; children “think” it is okay.
Kenneth, I think Max is really Grisha who lived in San Francisco and used to post on here and kept Mark from PA and Peter spinning. I think he has just taken another name. Now I am off of this dirty, filthy subject. I also think he has a relative who is a Lesbian, thus his sarcastic remarks when anyone says the practice is wrong.
There is no dignity in homosexual sexual behavior. And, there is no justification for the use of any Catholic facility, even a printing press, to do anything, at any time, to advance, or to give the appearance of normality and moral acceptability of these acts. Bishop Soto is more clearly showing his true lack of a Shepard’s fidelity to his flock, and to his Faith by his inaction. The St. Francis parish is joining its sister SF parish Most Holy Redeemer, as a place where sinners can go and likely not be saved. The fact that this type of thing goes unnoticed by local ordinaries and by the Vatican is why the institutional Church is crumbling. If no one cares, then no one will go, and no one will pay, and the lights will go out (except for the remnants that are promised to us by the Holy Spirit).
Being concerned about your human sexuality is not a sin. The sin is in SODOMY!
The woman mentioned in the article above who is Vice-chair of the Parish Council, Mary Marks, according to the article is living with her female ‘partner” (a code word for lover). If this is true, this is clearly against Church teaching. Parish council members, and those who have an office in the Church should be people of high moral character and follow the Church’s teachings, including those on human sexuality.
And if we were to expunge every dissenter from Humanae Vitae from our churches, where would we be?
YFC… a better and holier Church, with all dissent crushed..as it should be
Better and holier Church? More like a small club of the self-rightous complaining about each other while they all look for reasons to kick the few remaining members out.
“the Catholic community of Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgender, Queer/Questioning parishioners.”
could they MAKE the list any longer?!?
what about adding transvestite, transexual, etc, etc, etc???
and here everyone’s worried about san francisco being the hotbed of…oh, i don’t know…hot beds?
The word, “sodomite”, covers it all, max, as you well know.
nope SKAI it doesn’t — women are not called that.
The city of Sodom contained men, women and children, max. All were instantly destroyed by the angels of God because all of them were evil. All of them were Sodomites. It is where we get the word, “sodomy”. They all practiced unnatural sex, today known as same sex sex.
That is not what is related in the Holy Scriptures.
Skai is correct!
SKAI, you are wrong if you think all the children, teens, women and men of sodom were “evil.”
not every story in the BIBLE is historical, you know, but rather is often told to make a point.
rather like JESUS and the parable of the prodigal son — doesn’t mean this actually happened.
or the woman who swept her house looking for a lost coin — you need to realize that the BIBLE has all forms of literature, some of it poetrty, or parables, or love songs, or prayers, and so forth.
the world, for example, was not created in six days, nor was there a talking snake. the genesis story is to make a point, not to explain science.
max, every human being in Sodom and Gomorrah was evil, which is why God killed them all … after sending Abram, Lott and their families to safety. He also turned Lott’s wife into a pillar of salt because she disobeyed Him and looked back, wondering why He had destroyed such warm hearted people or for some reason … max, why do you suppose that woman looked back at the inferno after God told her not to?
max, are you saying that Jesus made up the story of the Prodigal Son with no basis in fact? A parable that has no connection to reality?
Wikipedia defines Sodomy: Sodomy is any non-penile/vaginal copulation-like act, such as oral or anal sex, or sex between a person and an animal.
This is the physical description and does not include the overarching definition of sodomy today.
Yep, Lin, Wikipedia, the root of all knowledge.
Oh its amazing, but like I always say don’t be shocked this, it is the Church of Vatican II. When we return to Tradition meaning full sacraments and the Traditional Latin Mass then and only then will we correct course and right the sinking ship!!!
If you hate Catholicism so much, why don’t you go start your own Church? (See? It works both ways. Radical reactionaries aren’t “real Catholics” any more than radical liberals.)
hmmm interesting? why on earth would you suggest someone to start their own church? Who were you referring that too? I’ll wait for you to clarify before I judge your comments?
um…ABECA…i think old KELL was talkiong to JANEK, who was decrying the CHURCH OF VATICAN TWO and the lack of FULL SACRAMENTS.
i guess JANEK believes our SACRAMENTS, right now, are half empty, rather like my gas tank…
max, if’n you’d stop driving so fast, A. your tank would not be so low, and B. you’d be able to smell the roses.
I am referring to those HERETICS who keep claiming the Ordinary Mass (what they mistakenly keep calling the “Novus Ordo”) is somehow deficient or illegitimate, or somehow inferior to the Tridentine (which the Magisterium allows as an alternative, but ONLY with the understanding that it is not in any way superior to the Ordinary Mass.) They are in direct OPPOSITION to the Magisterium, and, therefore, they are not REAL Catholics, and need to go off in the woods somewhere and start their own religioun. Theologically and spiritually, they are equal to, say, “sodomites” or people anyone in favor of abortion or women priests, etc. etc., in that they choose to directly contradict or ignore Church teaching. Like others here, they like to spread confusion and heresy by attempting to mislead others, and by brazenly speaking as if their heretical ideas were legitimate Church teaching.
Kell Brigand, by your post you must have meant the Pope Benedict XVI is a “HERETIC”, since he wrote in one of his books that he prefers the Traditional Latin Mass because it is better. Say, Brigand, while you’re at it, maybe you could excommunicate the Catholic politicians who are against all that is good.
How can we expexctt to deepen Catholic life if we support Gay, Lesian, etc–programs supporting evil life styles? When will these parishes stop supporting sin and prolaim the purity that Christ asks of us?
I firmly believe that pastors and Bishops willl pay dearly for this lack of leadership.
Mary Help of Christians, pray for us…
The root problem is the uncharity-in-charity’s clothing of telling people, especially young people, that their inclinations to certain sins are, and should be, their actual identities. St. Peter is a not “a denier”; he is “a man” made in the image and likeness of God who made the mistake of denying thrice one night. But our actions, even if they are scarlet and lifelong habitual, are not what and who we are in the eyes of God. We are his children. We are ill sheep, not the illness itself, even if that illness is self-inflicted (with copious demonic assistance).
Thus telling people that their below the belt issues are their identities is a horror. Even calling them by these LGBTQ labels is a horror. It is branding them forever in the language of the demon who would have us be enslaved to our pet sins as opposed to be able to decouple our identities from them and then leave them in the dust.
The new name that the Lamb is going to write on the souls of the elect in heaven is not going to be “LGBTQ” or “alcoholic” or “sloth”. The new name will be “Beloved Creature Ransomed By My Own Blood”.
The Dr. on the Catholic Answers radio show on 1/9 knows exactly how to talk about this issue without chaining souls to their sins by using demonic language. The MP3 should be available soon.
It is incumbant on each of us to develop our identity, the “who we are” that God has created. The longer we persist in sin at any level, the shorter the odds of full development of our individual personalities. Total contrition is one way to gain total personality development instantly; however, when is the last time anyone did this? Rarity of rarities!!! There is a point where a person may permanently destroy his or her future with God, called the unforgiveable sin. There will be a “man of sin”; thus, in that there are, according to St John, many anti-Christs running around, then there are also many men of sin running around … yet, there will be one and one only “biggie” who arrives on the scene, the Anti-Christ. Keep in mind also that there will come about the Abomination of Desolation. Some Church writers put all these prophetic things in the past; however, that betrays the nature of prophesy, much of which has to do not only with the future but with human nature, ie with the present as well. Bishops, priests, nuns, monks, laity who promote acceptance of sodomy are not the Church, have no part in the Church, but are deceivers just as Satan attempted to deceive Jesus as He returned from His forty days of fasting in the desert that followed his Baptism by the one who later was executed for following God’s directive and telling the ruler what was right and what was wrong. That was not the end of it; it is not a bed of roses but a dark tomb, this world, from which the Church always rises … an ongoing event that each person is called to achieve.
That is so well written, Skai! We’re called to see ourselves as God sees us, not the world. Al Kresta’s radio show tonight was all about the errors in perception people have about the Catholic Church, and I almost called in to say that I wish he weren’t always so concerned about what the world thinks of us but what God does, and that Jesus told us that the world would hate us because it first hated Him, but I didn’t. It’s such an insidious trick to make us worry that by hating sin we’re intolerant bigots. We’re called to love our neighbors, not because they’re such great people, but because they’re made in the image of God, but it sure is a stretch to love those who identify so closely with their sin that they’ve become the sin. I’ve dealt with this before, but I’ve not come to any real closure about it. I know Cardinal Dolan is MUCH concerned with ‘civility’ but that seems like such a secular expression. Civility? Aren’t we called to LOVE one another? And if we LOVE them, do we not want them to know the truth about heaven and hell? Isn’t it much kinder to tell a hardened sinner that God does NOT tolerate sin, despite all the sweet lies that their priest or bishop is telling them, and letting them feel all cozy and comfortable taking the Eucharist while in grave sin? It’s like the old ad, “even your best friend won’t tell you…you’ve got bad breath”. Well, I think it’s much more loving to tell them the truth…they stink to high heaven. (believe me, I feel the same way about myself!)
Even when I was a terrible rascal, which was before I fell in with the Christians and then specifically the Catholics, I never to my recall hated Christians. I do not know why people do. But the world cannot be converted unless Christians convey Christ to others who are not Christians. This seems to be my soup bowl.
I apologize for not having read your other contributions…now that I have a clearer picture, I was ‘going off half-cocked’ and reading into what you wrote what I wanted to see. I hope in your effort to present Catholics more ‘palatably’ you’re not making the Church something it is not?
Can you please also address those on this site and in other places who identify people as “sodomites”. It is a demeaning and degrading term that reduces the individual to an identity that is neither true nor fair.
The American language calling out sin for what it is, is now under trial, the gay agenda mentality or activism has managed to censor truth and words that call out actions or sins. Some would make it an issue to address things that they find uncomfortable due to their embrace of such lifestyles but as long as we have the little freedom we have, we hope that we can still speak out and express what is truly is, what truly also harms the soul and salvation of many.
The words are ugly to hear to some but to many it is to serve as a warning, an understanding that it is sin and hurtful to our Lord. Let us not censor those words that serve a warning to ones soul. I recall reading about a man who was sentenced many years in prison, he was a well known child molester, a pedophile. He was disturbed when people used the word pedophile when describing his sexual appetite…he was once heard to say that if he had the power to get rid of that word, he would. He saw nothing wrong with relationships with young boys, nothing wrong. SICK!
What is sick is identifying a person by a pejorative, and then not letting them out of that box. A term meant to keep people from seeing what the good things there might be in that persons life, the love that they have for their fellow human beings and for God. Calling someone a “sodomite” is to dehumanize them, and make them less than the Child of God that they are through baptism.
Jesus tells us that “it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out”: Thus, YFC, you’ve got your pz and qz backwards.
Sodomites are as they do.. that’s what they are… so YFC you see nothing wrong with having relationships with young boys?
Sodomites are only those who practice homosexual acts.
Practicing homosexual acts is a mortal sin.
Those who merely have ‘same-sex attraction’ yet do not practice homosexual acts are not Sodomites.
We should never tolerate sin.
If we love our neighbor’s as instructed by Jesus, we will want them all to get to Heaven – even though ultimately the choice of Heaven or Hell is their own.
“Never let evil talk pass your lips; say only the good things men need to hear, things that wil really help them. Do nothing that will sadden the Holy Spirit with whom you were sealed against the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, all passion and anger, harsh words, slander and malice of every kind. In place of these, be kind to one another, compassionate, and mutually forgiving, just as God has forgiven you in Christ.” (Ephesians 4:29-32)
They have been told by other posters that it is an offensive word even to heterosexuals. They don’t care. In fact, when someone protests its use, they use it more. One person a long time ago, justified its use based on the Douey-Rheims Bible and vintage Catholic writings. It seems as if the reason they use it is to demean and degrade.
“The unbelief of heretics, who confess their belief in the Gospel and resist that faith by corrupting it, is a more grievous sin than that of the heathens, because the heathens have not accepted the faith in any way at all. Hence, the unbelief of heretics is the worst sin.” – St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica II-II, Q.10, art.3, ff; art.6
Of course heresy is worse than the unbelief of someone who has never heard the Gospel. Since your post was a reply to mine, did you find something heretical in my post?
“A pig by any other name is still a pig” (sorry about defaming pigs, which are inherently good and incapable of sin, but their image is one of uncleaness, and thus suitable for metaphoric excoriations of sodomites who whine about people not lauding them for their layers of camoflage).
Dear fellow Catholic, the term sodomite is accurate and factual. What is demeaning is this so-called lifestyle that glorifies unspeakable evils, mocks God and His Holy Will, and corrupts innocent young children into this life of perdition. What is especially demeaning is for all of this to be done in the name of Christ. If you study the Gospels you will readily discover what Jesus Himself has to say about this subject. Interesting how the left loves to demonize bankers and racists. Altough there are certainly evil men among these two groups, sodomites and abortionists are worse, much much worse…in terms of the destruction of innocent lives and innocent souls…
Its the booming growth of acceptance of homosexuality that revived the word Sodomite.
What did Jesus “himself” teach about homosexuality, sodomy, or being gay? I can’t recall that sermon.
Read the Gospel and find out, YFC. Jesus tells us He is the fulfillment of the Law, and not a jot or tittle is changed. Thus, you can read what the Law says about sodomy or same sex attraction or effeminacy, and then read what Jesus says from His position of being the Law’s fulfillment. St Paul provides instruction on this topic in several of his letters. Dig into it yourself; hook up with the primary source instead of some secondary source. Pray while you read it; resolve to follow Jesus, especially by not telling Him how things ought to be.
And as He sat at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Jesus and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners.” But when He heard it, He said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, “I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.” for I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.” Matthew 10-13
Jesus taught nothing about those topics, Your Fellow Catholic. But he did teach a lot about love. Look at how Jesus treated those who were considered outcasts in their society. Some here seem to think that the man made rules in Leviticus are more important than the words of Jesus in the gospels. Using “clobber verses” to dehumanize people surely isn’t following Christ.
He also did not specifically mention incest either, but we know its wrong and unnatural. Our Blessed Lord did not mention homosexuality because he did not have to, since he is the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity in union with God the Father his words were already known in the Old Testament, also he cannot undermine the Truth because he is Truth, and homosexuality violates Truth…. Sorry YFC you lose….
The Catholic hierarchy has discovered that it is losing the battle to keep its homosexual and pedophilia cadres secret, and so now it is making these things official … by default … by allowing them … by not getting rid of them. How soon will some bishop preside or be the guest speaker at an obvious “abomination of desolation” event? I wonder if the Las Vegas booky establishment has placed any odds on such a thing yet.
Skai, forgive me if you know this, but the abomination of desolation was when Titus sacked Jerusalem in 70AD and placed the eagles of Rome in the temple sanctuary, thus unseating the God of Abraham and placing an actual idol in His place.
So in reply to your question: presence of a bishop as president or guest speaker at a similar event of idolatry: this happens all the time, idolatrous events, that is, events infernally dedicated to an idol, whether a bishop is there or not. Sometimes the idol is a nakedly admitted-to demon. Sometimes the idol is sin itself, either in general or a particular sin. Whenever men dance like fools around a golden calf they have set up. So sad.
Here in the topic of this article we have all three: sin itself, and a particular sin (disordered sex), and the stench of two demons from the ancient world, whom I won’t name in daylight but both of their initials are A.
But! The Blood of Christ!
Yes, Brad, I’ve read all that stuff. Some interpreters have it that prophesy is a timeline. But anyone who seriously studies the nature of prophesy understands that “timeline” is the lesser aspect of prophesy. Also, reading the prophetic books you would see that there is a problem with that timeline interpretation.
But I agree with your further accounts. Also, even though the Titus event “abomination of desolation” happened, one of the depths of prophesy includes a recurrence. So, these little abominations of desolation can recur, and eventually there could be a grand finale’. As an example of what I’m trying to convey is St John in one of his letters explaining that already then there were anti-Christs running amok … yet he goes on to say in the Apocalypse that there shall be a final Anti-Christ, and then defines this character in terms that put it in context with the end of time.
This is a nice article. It is good to see that this parish is following the dictates of the CCC that state that gay people should be treated with respect, compassion and sensitivity and not discriminated against. However, some people don’t really believe that and articles like this only serve as a stimulus for them to spread their venom against a group of people that they dislike. Gay people are human beings folks.
Wrong on all counts PA….all counts…gay purposely provoke and mock and then they are surprised why they are so hated…
Canisius, only a small minority of people hate gay people and the number is shrinking as people become more educated and accepting.
not educated PA, indoctrinated
I was waiting for Mark to try to confuse people. He like to muddy the waters with not defining the words he uses. For one thing, the catechism does NOT say that “gays” should be treated with respect. The catechism does NOT use the gayspeak word. It refers to “men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies”. Those who have homosexual tendencies are not necessarily “gay”. Gay refers to individuals who are actively homosexual or pursue that agenda for others. In that sense, the Sacramento Diocese under Bishop Jaime Soto is promoting the “gay” lifestyle. Certainly there is no doubt but that the program offered at St. Francis is intent on affirming people, including young people, in the “gay” lifestyle; that is, that homosexuality is good and acceptable and the Catholic Church will have to accept it! Mark, fulminate all you want, but we both know the truth!
It is NOT following the dictates of the CCC as it has a woman who admittedly is living in sin with her Lesbian partner on the parish council.
How? please elaborate?
YFC, uh…living with a “Lesbian Partner” pretty much sums it up….I will ask you again YFC should the Church accept “gay marriage” if so why, should the State force it on the Church, if so why?
You may be thinking of Canon 512?
I’m thinking of 512 cannons.
One would be too many, but there are plenty of sodomite friendly speakers scheduled to indoctrinate the attendees at the the 2013 Archdiocese of Lost Angels Religious Dis-Education Congress. Go to: RECongress.org to see for yourselves.
We need volunteers to pass out informative literature concerning the many, far too many heterodox speakers to those who will accept it at this coming Congress. Ask yourself if God and His Mother are calling you to defend His Church at the annual dissent fest, then call or Email me at: 714-491-2284/714-260-3821 (Cell)/firstname.lastname@example.org.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Kenneth Fisher, we need volunteers to take up hours of Adoration in our Eucharistic chapels in Sacramento in prayer for our Diocese, its leaders, its wayward parishes, etc. The need is for prayer intercessors and prayer warriors in all our Dioceses. We need to beg our bishops for 24 hour Adoration Chapels in all our parishes. It is a time for radical love, radical conversions and radical prayer intercession.
This has been sought by many for decades and longer. It is not a new idea.
The “questioning” I fear most is disgusted parishioners questioning whether the Catholic Church is the right place to worship and the right religion in which to bring up their children. I have actually been told by former Catholics that they have chosen more conservative Protestant faiths for being disgusted with discovering so many inexplicable things about their local Catholic churches and churches they read about in the papers. These Protestants urge me to renounce Catholicism as a way of communicating to the Church hierarchy that I find this sort of thing intolerable. I do, but I don’t leave. Other do also, and they leave. I am always deeply saddened by this, but I can’t say I don’t understand why they won’t bring up their children in such a setting.
Maryanne, a small number of Catholics do leave for conservative Protestant sects. Those people also must not believe in the Holy Eucharist being the body and blood of Christ. Some are drawn in by preachers who share their political views. But as Catholics, we attend Mass for Christ, not for the priest.
PA, Maryanne L has probably forgotten more about what is to be a true Catholic than you will ever know. She has not be infected with modernist poison that you have accepted without question.
Canisius, I want to thank you for the kind things you said about me, as nothing is more important to me than my Catholic faith, and I am surprised and humbled that you have picked that up. It is true I have forgotten a great deal, now being 70, about what it means to be a true Catholic; for example, I find myself reading about saints whose stories I once knew well but now recall only upon rereading about their lives. And I must question modernist ideas and denounce them to myself, and sometimes others, even as our society has embraced so many that are wrong-headed, although not all are, of course. But I am also pained that in the context of these humbling words, that your praise for my supposed true Catholicity, poor Mark is being attacked again and no doubt pained himself. Mark tells us that he is married, a faithful Catholic, and does not have relations with his own gender despite being brave enough to acknowledge and admit to his attractions. The CCC teaches us that we are to respect and be kind to folks afflicted (my word) with same sex attraction, and teaches them to remain abstinent outside of marriage, which Mark shares with us that he is doing. Despite my own difficulties in being repulsed by homosexual behavior, I have seen in Mark a person trying as hard as I am to be a good Catholic, failing I’m sure at times as we all do, but seeking the light of truth and wanting to worship God as we are taught. I care for Mark and feel pain when I see the only homosexual (that I know of) on our site spoken to dismissively. I also feel badly when I consider a few of his views out of synch with Catholic teaching – but I feel a pinch no matter whose views are off base (according to my own understanding). Mark is a human being, and no doubt both a basically good person and imperfect, absolutely just like myself. I so appreciate your kind words about me, Canisius, but I must say I am truly unworthy of your sincerely intended accolades and pained to be presented to Mark as an almost saintly example in order to shame him into giving up his homosexual identity. I may not always agree with Mark, but I salute his courage in stating his SSA and admire his ability to stay true to his wife and son. What more can one do than to be committed to stating truths and to living up to his marriage vows? We must be kind to our afflicted fellow Catholics, especially those who are both forthcoming and chaste. Our own souls need to rest in kindness and love for one another, without failing to decry and denounce sin in ourselves and one another.
Maryanne, thank you so much for sharing your kind comments and wisdom. I agree with you that I am striving to be a good Catholic and yes sometimes failing, as we all do. I also seek the light of truth and desire to follow Christ. Yes, I am basically a good person but also an imperfect sinner. But I do try to see the goodness in others. Canisius’ words don’t pain me too much, I feel sadder for what he has suffered in his life. I am lucky in that as a young person I was somewhat protected. If sometimes what people say upset me, part of this is that as a young person I was never exposed to much hatred of homosexuality and gay people. I pretty much viewed people as equal.
PA, consistently supports the gay movement, which makes him complicit in sodomy, the objective of that movement.
Yes, Mark, I agree with you, we absolutely do attend Mass for Christ, and not for the priest. I must admit I attend Mass for myself as well, not merely wanting to worship, but to be chosen to spend time and eternity with God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. It seems selfish to me to have that among my motivations, but I haven’t been able to eliminate that among my many reasons to go to Mass. However, mainly I do go for Christ, and I wonder how people can be willing to give up everything we find in the Catholic faith to settle for the country club atmospheres I’ve found at every Protestant church I’ve attended. I love to support the work of Catholics Come Home and other organizations because no matter what we mere human beings do or fail to do to strengthen, hurt or abandon the Catholic faith, it remains the Church founded by Jesus Christ and is therefore the one true holy Church. Your statement is true.
Maryanne, I think in our Catholic faith the liturgy of the Word and the liturgy of the Eucharist transcend the priest who is saying Mass. I have attended funerals and interfaith services in protestant churches and have felt somewhat comfortable there but watching a few minutes of some of the fundamentalist preachers does make me uncomfortable. A lot of these men are dressed in fancy suits and seem to be on big ego trips. I am more impressed by humility than an excess of pride. It is confusing to me that some Catholics are taken in by men like that.
I understand fully what you are saying and have to concur, Mark. It is confusing to me too and heartbreaking, as I really do believe they are putting at risk their eternal salvation, and so often it is in protest over such things as priestly error or disgust with things that are quite annoying, but trivial in comparison with the salvation of their eternal souls. Not a single Protestant denomination that I spent time exploring (really, all the main ones) during the years I was afraid of what might happen to me again if I returned to the Church where I was so harmed could hold a candle to the Catholic Church and its deep and broad teachings and rich legacies in so many areas of human endeavor. I’m so glad I was able to see finally that grave priestly error did not mean the entire Church was at fault for what happened to me. Anything that separates a soul from God needs to be seen as critical to overcome, even in the case in which priestly error or even grave priestly sin is the cause, as in my case.
Mark, in many cases they have been “pushed” out by the scandalous behavior of Catholics such as some in the post above. If the congregants are committing serious sins right out in the open and encouraging them and the priests do nothing about it, and there are no other good Catholic churches in the area, where else should these poor people go, except stay home and read their Bible or catechism as I have suggested. An Eastern Rite Catholic church would be good to attend also, instead of this one if this type of behavior continues.
What about, if no faithful Catholic parish available, stopping at one where at least the Sacrament is valid and receiving, and then driving over to some decent protestant church for a good Bible lesson type sermon?
Oh, terrific idea — receiving the Eucharist from a tabernacle and then going over to a Protestant service to hear anti-Catholic preaching.
You are a genius!!!
ZmrckM, Protestant services do not typically bash Catholicism. Many of the Evangelical preachers and teachers stick with what they see in Scripture. There is a great deal of preaching and teaching that Protestants do which has no bearing on bashing Catholics. I’ve heard more in Catholic sermons that bears false witness to Catholicism than I have heard among the Evangelicals.
I spent 40 years wandering in the desert of agnosticism, wondering if there was a God, and going to countless numbers of Protestant churches around the nation following a murderous event that happened to me on Catholic grounds and involved a Catholic priest. Thank God for God, because I was eventually able to realize that individuals, no matter how wrong, do not represent the entire Church, and I was able to forgive and return to the Church I love. During those years I must have heard at least 40 or 50 Protestant ministers denounce Catholicism, its beliefs and practices, or Catholics as individual misguided worshippers. You see less of that on television broadcasts, but some still gets through, and lots of it can be heard on the radio with as little as one day’s listening. Your statement defies reason and flies in the face of reality. There is no question that Catholic clergy rarely bash Protestants or Protestantism from the pulpit, but that Protestant clergy practice Catholic-bashing almost like a religion in far, far too many churches in the USA.
Ok, then, howz about going to Mass, if the reading and preaching, and music are not too helpful, while wearing ear speakers and listening to a well done High Mass in Latin. You’ll be able to see when to go to Communion, and so you should then be all set.
Switch-hitter style? Why not dedicate yourself to learning more about the Catholic faith and examining your own conscience each evening to see how closely you are managing to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ as preserved and passed on for you for 2000 years by the Catholic Church? You can always watch the Protestant ministers carry on wildly on television, and you do have the advantage of being able to click the remote to another channel when your curiosity has turned to disappointment and finally disdain and disgust, but how will you recognize when Protestant ministers are in error if you don’t spend your entire life devoted to studying the teachings of the one, true, holy Catholic Church?
Skai, I think you have gotten a lot of your theology from some of that Protestant preaching. Some of your ideas are quite foreign to me. Some Protestant groups are friendly to the Catholic Church and others are not. In my town we have a Lutheran Church, a Methodist Church, an Episcopal Church, a Presbyterian Church and a United Church of Christ. Several of these churches have woman ministers. Which ones do you think I should go to for the sermons?
Email or fax the Diocese of Sacramento, Bishop Jamie Soto;
Copy the US Papal Nuncio in Washington DC;
Copy the Vatican’s ‘Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’.
Quote your CCC paragraphs # 2357, 2358 & 2359, as well as including:
” 2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.”
Also quote from the letter on the Vatican which includes: ” LETTER to the BISHOPS of the CATHOLIC CHURCH on the PASTORAL CARE of HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS ” – which includes:
” 15. We encourage the Bishops, then, to provide pastoral care in full accord with the teaching of the Church for homosexual persons of their dioceses.
No authentic pastoral programme will include organizations in which homosexual persons associate with each other without clearly stating that homosexual activity is immoral.
A truly pastoral approach will appreciate the need for homosexual persons to avoid the near occasions of sin. ”
Don’t wish or hope – act.
In 2005, San Jose Bishop Patrick McGrath hosted the 12th Annual Conference of the National Association of Catholic Diocesan Lesbian and Gay Ministries. The Bishop gave the opening address. X-rated gay pornography was sold at exhibits during this conference. The Bishop is still in good standing even after the Vatican was notified.
Where have you been? Re.: “How soon will some bishop preside or be the guest speaker at an obvious “abomination of desolation” event?” That has already happened many times!
Some of the main speakers, such as Fr. Timothy Radcliff, at the upcoming Religious Education Congress sponsored by Archbishop Gomez are openly sodomite friendly!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Gosh, Kenneth, so now Archbishop Gomez is on your list? Don’t you tire of hurling “sodomite” at people, left and right? I am so glad that I wasn’t exposed to that when I was in Catholic school. I wonder what it would have been like to have had you at my school, calling me “sodomite” day in and day out. You may have gotten satisfaction from it, but it surely wouldn’t have helped my faith.
PA if your Faith would have been affected by name calling it suggests your Faith is not very solid…do you ever get tired of the hypothetical situations that you never fail to post….
Kenneth, I’m aware. Let me rephrase my question using the phrase, “The final and conclusive end of time Abomination of Desolation”, or at least something so obvious that even pagans realize its effrontery against God.
So we see here the rotten “fruits” of “relativism” – soooo politically correct – – being taught in our catholic schools, as well as in the gov’t schools. These “schools” of course, is where reprehensible and scandalous damages are done.
OK, now this concerns me since I’m moving to Sacramento. Does anyone know which parishes are in agreement with the Magisterium of the Church and which to avoid (like St. Francis)?
Paul, in response to your question about the parish you should join in Sacramento, here is the ONLY one to attend; the Masses are strictly in Latin & they adhere to the Magisterium: St. Stephen First Martyr, 5461 44th Street, Sacramento, California 95820
Tel: (916) 455-5114, Fax: (916) 455-1018
you are SO fortunate to be able to attend this parish…
Agreed! St. Stephen First Martyr is the best reason to continue living in Sacramento.
You have to be careful with St. Stephen’s however. Their clergy are in full Communion, but many of their parishioners are at war with the Magisterium at least as much as the folks at St. Francis. You’ll hear lots of heresy about the Tridentine being the only “real” Mass, etc. (Maybe that’s why the Bishops don’t come down so hard on the Liberal extremists? If they did, they’d also have to bring the Conservative extremists into line as well…)
Personally, I’ve heard just one parishioner at St. Stephen imply that the Tridentine is the only real Mass, but you may know more than I do. In my experience, most parishioners at St. Stephen are either senior citizens or home-schooling young couples who want sanctity for their children. The priests at Stephen offer Confession several hours per week, and most parishioners go often. A good person with whom to talk about St. Stephen is “Tish” in the Bookstore. By contrast, there was a priest at St. Francis who told the children that Jesus could have saved them “with a penguin.”
Ah, yes… The Penguin Heresy… At least they’re fish eaters <== this is a joke, people.
An important thing to know about St. Stephen's is they have a liturgical music program that's world class.
Is “penguin” now the latest poster animal for gay justification?
i’ve heard of JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH, but SKAI’s suggestion that we adopt JUSTIFICATION BY PENGUIN is not something i’ll sign up for, thank you very much…
Mxkza, “justification by penguin” is exactly what happened in the movie Blues Bros, the “penquin” being a nun in full black and white habit. She sent them on a “mission from God”, and they delivered.
Rumor. The allegations are so vague as to defy the intellect.
“… only real Mass …”: Kell Brigand, you really need to realize that “real” has many connotations. So, before you really know what they mean by “real Mass”, you have to understand what they mean by it … which means that you have to ask them to explain what real really means to them in the way they are using it.
St. Stephen Martyr FSSP.
I find that St. Rose in south Sacramento is a fine parish. All the priests there uphold the teachings of the Catholic Church – always. The Church is small, but has Masses on Sunday hourly from 7:00 a.m. through 1:00 p.m., and two Sunday evening Masses. It also has one Saturday vigil Mass – and also several Spanish Masses in Kavanagh Hall on the weekends. The former pastor, Msgr.Edward Kavanagh, made worldwide news years ago by refusing to allow Governor Grey Davis on his property unless he repented of his promotion of baby-killing. Now that’s a parish!
Thank you Mary Ann.
Presentation is another parish in Sacramento like St. Rose. If you prefer the Novus Ordo Mass, you can’t go wrong with either.
That really was amazing about Msgr Kavanaugh refusing Davis and not being shuffled to outer Mongolia or the north pole … double amazing that they named something after him in his honor. There is a ray of hope to be found here and there, now and then.
Skai, in case you are still following this story: “They” tried to punish Msgr. Kavanagh but the Sacramento laity raised holy you- know- what, and they (Democrat controlled) gave up.
Proof, then, that the laity can sway the bureaucrats at times, like when they get wound up.
If Presentation Parish (East Sac) were any more pious, it would glow in the dark. I also attended St. John the Evangelist in Carmichael, which was pretty good (although, a little “stressed” because of so much school stuff going on.) Presentation’s breathtaking in it’s call to Holiness, IMHO.
I did quite a bit of research about five years ago, and, as far as I know the only Parish acting blatantly in defiance is St. Francis. St. Stephens is the local HQ for the Tridentine. The rest have varying “vibes” and styles, but, as far as I know, all present the Mass respectfully and in full accord with teaching.
Extremely discerning and articulate, Kell; you no doubt would be awash in emotion were you to attend Mass at Christ Cathedral in Orange County; it seems to be where the bright lights of the big city make a competitive splash. In fact perhaps you’d find a way to take it back to Sacramento with you if you ever visit it.
There are many excellent and faithful parishes in Sacramento. I belong to a Fair Oaks Parish named St. Mel’s which is orthodox and maintains one of the only 24 hour Adoration Chapels in our Sacramento area. Close by is Divine Savior and I would avoid this parish as it houses the Eucharist in a wooden box and conducts Adoration using two dirty worn out candles and a configuration of 3 tiny hosts in the Monstrance. This occurs not in the church but in a room off the busy office.
St. John the Baptist is a thriving and faithful parish in Folsom. Most of us are aware of the beautiful parish of Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary parish on Norris and Robertson in Sacramento. The young, holy and dynamic Fr. Jeremy Leatherby leads this parish. You will find young families filled with children in attendance at the masses. You will find weekday 24 hour devotion to the Eucharist in its chapel. You will find bible studies, outreach to the poor, a play upcoming celebrating St. Maximilian Kolbe. The sermons are orthodox, the parish is vibrant and the music ministry makes CDs of the monthly music so that we can be familiar with the songs sung at mass. Try it, you’ll love it!
Thank you very much!
another Sodom & Gomorrha desecrating such a beautiful church…i can only express my disgust & outrage & pray that God will forgive the so-called ‘priests’ who run this parish…shame…shame…shame!
I just received a call back from a Fr. Murphy at the Diocesan Offices, and he assured me that the parish was very aware of the teachings of the Church and that the Pastor was in full keeping with the teachings of the Church.
Now I want to hear from those of you who are closer to the situation. It sounds to me like I was given a “brush off”!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Mr. Fisher, I am glad that you called and talked to someone. 1 zillion points for that. whether you got the brush-off or not, you did the responsible thing. Yeah for you. You’ve revived my heart today.
Gosh, Mark from PA, As long as you don’t tire from trying to undermine Catholic Church teaching there will always be a reason for you to be offended on *faithful* Catholic websites.
Catherine, the devil is offended by truth also.
Catherine, someone who comes on here all the time, reminds me of Golem in The Lord of the Rings with his kind, sweet words as he undermines Church teaching. It is so very preciousssssssss!
Concerning the article above. Quite simply put no one should be a vice-chair of a parish council if they are living in sin with someone of their own or opposite sex. Only those who are adhering to the Church’s moral teaching on sexuality and marriage should have any office in the Church. End of discussion.
Good one Anne T
Have you asked him?
Ken, You have been brushed off by one of the best in the business. Msgr. Murphy trained for years in the art of “brushing off” mere lay people. Bishop Francis Quinn, Bishop William Weigand, and now Bishop Soto have given him much opportunity to do so.
Is Fr. Murphy forgetting that the vice-chair of the St. Francis Parish Council is the DOMESTIC PARTNER of the woman who works for the gay and lesbian center??? How can he say that the pastor was “in full keeping with the teachings of the Church”? Maybe Fr. Murphy and the pastor have a different meaning of “full keeping”.
Monsignor Murphy also recently penned an article published in the Diocesan newspaper in which he lamented the fact that he just didn’t know who to vote for in the recent Presidential election. See Catholic Herald published 11 /12 page 38.
Thank you for posting this. I read the article. It talked about how pro-life Democrats have been run off from their party. It is very apparent in this article that Monsignor Murphy is fully in keeping with the teachings of the Catholic Church. He laments the Democrats’ attack on life, the redefinition of marriage and attack on religious liberty, as well as the Republican lack of concern for the poor and the immigrant. He stated that Catholics should be able to change things because, in numbers, we have the advantage, but because of the divisions among Catholics, we don’t seize that opportunity. He doesn’t say this but I think he is seeing what many of us see-the need for a third party that puts the common good first.
Satan is very aware of the teachings of the Church too, but he doesn’t advocate for them.
The mission statement of this group begins with “The Gay, Lesbian, Bi-Sexual and Transgendered parishioners are committed to the Word of God as taught by the Roman Catholic Church.”
Maryanne Leonard posted a wonderful post at January 10, 2013 at 9:56 pm.
I would add to maryanne’s post the following: She points out the respect she holds for Mark, and indicates that the Church teaches her to convey that respect. BRAVO!
However, the Church does not, as Maryanne implicates, restrict respect for homoseuxals to those who promise chastity, as Mark has promised. Indeed, the Church calls upon its members to respect ALL people who find themselves attracted to members of their own sex, and makes absolutely no exceptions for their conduct. All Children of God are to be respected!
If my fellow catholics on this site truly take into consideration what the teachings of the Church are regarding homosexuality, they will respond with wholehearted support of this post.
A Plea for Intolerance by Fulton J. Sheen
Monsignor Fulton J. Sheen
In 1931, Monsignor Fulton J. Sheen wrote the following essay:
“America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance-it is not. It is suffering from tolerance. Tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos. Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded.”
“Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the laboratory.
Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of all stability.”
Catherine please send your comments to Bishop Soto….maybe also a link to Bishop Fulton Sheen’s video’s…he needs to be humble enough to learn from those great lessons. God bless you.
The sentence in the essay prior to “Tolerance does not apply to truth of principles” is “Charity must be shown to persons, and particularly to those outside the fold who by charity must be led back, that there may be one fold and one Shepherd.” This goes with what you quoted that tolerance applies to persons…never to truth.” Now those whom this article is about are not outside the fold. They state that they are “committed to the Word of God as taught by the Roman Catholic Church.” So thus charity should be extended to them. To those who agree with the Church’s teaching, yet cannot meet its demands (which is everyone) charity should be extended. And those who teach a different doctrine should be rebuked charitably.
Telling Catholics that you have been living in a homosexual relationship for twenty two years and still think that you can call yourself a “practicing” or “fellow” Catholic is not the truth. So apparently someone either does not agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church or someone has been taught that they have permission to sin. There is also the realistic possibility that someone is trying to pull a “fast one” and get others to accept mortal sin.
Here is the charity that is being extended…If anyone is living in a homosexual relationship that includes homosexual acts they are not following the teachings of the Catholic Church. They should immediately try to go to confession with sincere contrition and with a firm purpose of amending their sinful lives especially before receiving Holy Communion.
There is also another false teaching being taught to homosexuals. They are being taught, encouraged and misled to think that you can commit unnatural acts if you are living in a “chaste committed relationship” They have been lied to and given a false teaching and a false sense of security and as well as false permission to commit serious mortal sin. This is not Church teaching. No priest has the authority to tell someone that this is a Church teaching. It is a false and deadly teaching. The faithful are NOT required to respect dark teachings or required to have fellowship with those within the Church who are actively promoting a false cafeteria style of approved darkness.
Ephesians 5:11 “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” Douay-Rheims Bible
Catherine, it is important to note that one is not bound to honor a commitment to sin. So if a person is in a relationship that includes sinful use of the gift of sexuality (any sexual contact in a relationship that is not a sacramental marriage or non-fruitful sexual acts even in a sacramental marriage), they should stop doing the behavior even at a risk of losing the relationship. If the relationship is truly chaste then they would not be committing unnatural acts so it is not sinful. As one advances in the spiritual life, one might wish to consider the impact that the semblance of sin might have in leading others into sin. As to your point that someone who is committing sin cannot call themselves a practicing or fellow catholic, one is Catholic by baptism. A person who is aware of committing a grave sin has the duty to confess before receiving the Sacrament of Holy Communion, as you have stated. Ideally, we all choose Christ over ourselves each and every moment of the day. Sin has an appeal to our senses and to our pride and we can be led astray. False notions such as you have described are temptations. They occur with every sin. We must always believe the Lord and not rely on your own thoughts or feelings or those of another person, especially the temptor or someone who has made peace with living in a sinful state.
“if the relationship is truly chaste then they would not be committing unnatural acts so it is not sinful.”
St. Anselm, Doctor of the Church writes: “If you would be quite sure of your salvation, strive to be among the fewest of the few. Do not follow the majority of mankind, but follow those who renounce the world and never relax their efforts day or night so that they may attain everlasting blessedness.”
Anonymous, This is not just a notion. There IS a false teaching or instruction that is equating the word *chaste* with the word *monogamous,* Meaning: All of their unnatural acts *ARE still considered as being “truly chaste* because they are not being committed with any other people outside of their relationship, but just exclusively between the two committed individuals.) So anonymous there are those within the Catholic Church who have been taught and encouraged to think that this is acceptable and they still refer to their sinful relationship “as a committed chaste homosexual relationship or chaste relationship. These are not simply thoughts or temptations. People have been taught this distortion. They have been lied to and taught that they are still being “truly chaste” in their relationship as long as neither one commits these unnatural acts with someone else.
The Catholic Church teaches that we should avoid the near occasion of sin. If you can mock God and work to dismantle the entire foundation and structure of society by distorting the definition of the family and the definition of marriage, you will also work to distort the intended meaning of the word chaste.
It is important, for clarification purposes to help any individual, who might all of the sudden just happen to drop into a faithful Catholic website to casually inform the entire Catholic blogospehere (that he has been living with his homosexual partner for twenty two years) to clarify the understanding of Church teaching. There is a reason that this unsolicited information was given. How simple it would be to clarify if someone accepts the true meaning of the word chaste or clarify as a new convert if he has also been misled by those who have been entrusted to teach only what the Church teaches, to think that 22 years of exclusively committing unnatural acts with the same person somehow makes this acceptable to God. I am clarifying that this particular distortion is not some new and accepted teaching instruction of the Catholic Church. So It is not merely a “false notion”, it is a cruel deception that has been taught and fostered and a deception that can lead someone to hell. St. Augustine said, “Before the devil can destroy you he must first deceive you.”
If an individual is only interested in promoting the homosexual agenda then they will continue to make excuses and not have the desire to simply clarify Church Teaching. They will continue to obfuscate and dodge specific questions in order to mislead others. Confusion and chaos are very useful tools. There are those who have proven their own untrustworthiness even though they are viewed as being a trustworthy authority but they are deliberately doing the misleading. This is why the Holy Father said the following:
Pope suggests it’s best to be ‘honest’ and leave the Church if you don’t believe: HLI priest
by John-Henry Westen
VATICAN CITY, August 28, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – In his Angelus address Sunday, Pope Benedict XVI spoke of Judas’ betrayal of Christ, saying that Judas’ problem was failing to leave Christ when he no longer believed – a “falsehood,” said the Pope, “which is a mark of the devil.”
“Judas,” said Pope Benedict, “could have left, as many of the disciples did; indeed, he would have left if he were honest. Instead he remained with Jesus. He did not remain because of faith, or because of love, but with the secret intention of taking vengeance on the Master.”
According to Human Life International Rome Director, Monsignor Ignacio Barreiro, the comments are very relevant to the current situation in the Catholic Church. Msgr. Barreiro, who holds a doctorate in Dogmatic theology, told LifeSiteNews that “for those Catholics who cannot bring themselves to believe the formal teachings of the Church on life and family matters it would be more honest to leave the Church rather than betraying Her.”
But, he added, “We regret very much that the person is so inclined and we wish they would have a conversion to truly believe.”
Pope Benedict, in his remarks, drew a distinction between believing and understanding, noting that some disciples walked away from Christ because they did not believe. However, he said, even those who remained believed before they fully understood.
The HLI Rome Director commented, “Intellectual difficulty is not disobedience.” He explained, “You might have teachings you find difficult to accept. However, (in those circumstances) it is virtuous to believe since you make a sacrifice of your own will, taking as your own the mind of the Church.”
Msgr. Barriero noted that submission of will and intellect is required when it comes to the official teachings of the Church, rather than prudential opinions. “For example,” he said, “it is required for the teaching on abortion, but there can be legitimate differences of opinion among Catholics on how to take care of the poor.”
Giving another example, he pointed out that “while the Church can never ordain women as priests, there can be difference on how to ensure all are provided access to medical care.”
The pope concluded with a prayer asking God to “help us to believe in Jesus, as St. Peter did, and to always be sincere with Him and with all people.” Pope suggests it’s best to be ‘honest’ and leave the Church if you don’t believe: HLI priest
Catherine, you are correct. Chaste and monogamous are not synonyms. “Chastity-The church calls all to lead ” a chaste life in keeping with their particular state in life” (CCC 2348), a striving that is performed deliberately, maturely, happily and for the sake of the Kingdom. It is a surrendering of all genital activity in thought, word, and deed, alone or with others, hetero-or-homo, honestly confronting any inclinations, drives or fantasies that threaten the wholesome, healthy, realistic purity mirrored by Jesus and expected by His Church of her people.” Cardinal Timothy Dolan “Called to be Holy”
Catherine, The HLI Rome Director is referring to a sermon that the Pope gave in August about Judas. He was talking about the Gospel where many of the disciples walked away after the Bread of Life discourse and that Judas could have walked away as well, but he didn’t because he wanted to take revenge of Jesus. The Pope did not say people should leave the Church. What about Jesus and Thomas…”doubt no longer, but believe.” Even excommunicated people aren’t supposed to leave the Church. What was the Director thinking? And how do you leave the Church, anyway? I know there is some way that you can write to the place of your baptism and declare that you want to have your name removed but that doesn’t really remove your baptism. What do you think he means?
I love Bishop Sheen. Thanks for the wonderful quote, Catherine. I don’t know where you find all your resources, but it’s pretty amazing.
Catherine, some of what Bishop Sheen said rings true but I note that he made those comments in 1931. In 1931, there was a lot of intolerance in this county. Some of it was even directed at Catholics. Black people in this country surely suffered from intolerance. In many parts of the South, the Ku Klux Klan had strong influence. Black people there had to live with Jim Crow and segregation. Most people viewed inter-racial marriage as an abomination and against the Bible. Black women in some places had it worst of all. If you were a black woman living in Mississippi or Alabama, you most likely did not even have the right to vote. I wonder if those women felt that our country was overrun by the broadminded. Our country is a lot more tolerant today and many people have benefited because of this.
Mark from PA, it is a very good essay, available online. People usually point to the 1960’s as the beginning of the rebellion against authority but this was written in 1931. It is not about racism or sexism. It is about religious error. He states “There are some minds that believe that intolerance is always wrong, because they make “intolerance” mean hate, narrow-mindedness, and bigotry. These same minds believe that tolerance is always right because, for them, it means charity, broad-mindedness, American good nature. What is tolerance? Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience towards evil and a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. But what is more important than the definition is the field of its application. The important point is this: Tolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons. Tolerance applies to the erring; intolerance to the error.” He is complaining about “indifference to truth and error.” He states “Greater tolerance, of course, is desirable, for there can never be too much charity shown to those who differ from us. Our Blessed Lord himself, asked that we love those who “calumniate for us” for they are always persons. but he never told us to love the calumny. In keeping with the Spirit of Christ, the Church encourages prayers for all those who are outside the pale of the Church, and asks that the greates charity be shown towards them.”
k, I would go so far as to love God and His effort to save the sinner, but the enemy of the common sinner is in a different category.
PA you just dont get it do you,,, he was talking about tolerance for error and lies…
PA, most Americans did not live in the south, had nothing to do with the KKK, and spent every waking moment doing what it took to keep a job and feed a family. Twentyfive percent of able bodied American workers were unemployed. Nobody had time or interest in all that persecution you keep drumming up. A friend’s father walked to work at a defense plant, leaving two hours early to make sure he got there on time, a ten minute walk from his home, and said that each day there was a line of men blocks long waiting for an opening so they could be hired; if a worker punched in even a second late, there were guards there who kept him out and hired the next man in line in his place. You spend too much time reading doctored history, PA. Most men fought for freedom from oppression; they won. After the US economy began to provide luxury for everyone, then there was time and energy and wealth enough to begin raising the oppressed Americans up to the mainline. Today wealth is such that this is being done globally. But some day, push will come to shove and there won’t be enough milk or bread to go around … then what happens, PA? Can you see? If you have trouble seeing, then look at human nature in real time while under extreme lack of food and safety in some of the fourth world regions. “Seek first the Kingdom of God, and then all else shall be added thereunto” means get holy and God will send manna. The bishops get manna and do not care about getting holy … which is why we have rampant institutionalized sodomy, abortion, and hypocrisy in high Catholic places. They are caught up in the dilemma expressed clearly in the Bible story about Jacob and Esau, where Esau did not heed God and became starving, and sold his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of stew. The bishops are selling the birthright of the Church for a bowl of stew, PA.
Your fellow Catholic, I support what you are saying. I think that it is especially important for our young people to know that they are loved and respected by their fellow Catholics and by the Church. As you have said, “All Children of God are to be respected.”
PA you and YFC never learned that respect is earned never given….
No, we respect all persons from conception.
I respect people’s right to life, and that they are made in God’s image, but that’s pretty facile reasoning to say you respect all persons from conception. The more obvious examples…mao, hitler, stalin, et al. Do you respect them? Really? There are many people I don’t respect…those that cheat, that dishonor their country, that spy, that gossip ad infinitum. As Canisius said, you earn respect…otherwise, it’s meaningless. It’s like saying there are many truths or that there are many paths to God. Respect, like trust, is based on merit. But, being a rotten sinner, I can identify with those that aren’t respected… and we all must say, ‘Lord, have mercy!’
Human respect is based on merit.
PA, that is a new age mantra, not Catholic in its implication and common useage. Lots of little sayings that one hears among Catholics that are assumed to be Catholic are really not Catholic at all. A lot of weak compromise has been snuck into Catholic conversation for ages … find out what real Catholic saying say and then trash the cheap imitations.
Why, YFC, should the Church respect people when God “is no respector of men”?
YFC, Your rebuke of Maryanne Leonard’s post is Diabolical. Such demands from a “fellow” Catholic!
Gravey, he thanked her for a wonderful post. That isn’t a rebuke. He added some of his thoughts but wasn’t unkind.
YFC direct question,,, do you believe the Church should accept “gay marriage” if not should the state force it on the Church (as I predict it will from the dictator in the White House)
“God is no respector of men”, St Paul; you either toe the line or you get no respect.
This is the bulletin announcement that this article refers to in the bulletin of Saint Francis of Assisi Parish, December 30, 2012: “A small group of parishioners has been meeting to create a new direction for strengthening the Catholic Community of LGBTQ parishioners, families with LBGTQ children, same-sex couples with families and others seeking a fully complement of parish supports. The following mission statement was developed: “The Gay, Lesbian, Bi-sexual and Transgendered parishioners are committed to the Word of God as taught by the Roman Catholic Church. We worship in the inclusive community of St. Francis of Assisi Parish. We believe that social conciousness is served through a ministry of presence and grows when we worship with our parish community. We support the mission of our parish through leadership and by offering our time and talents. Our vision is to enhance the common good through community, faith and service.” The Christmas Holiday can somethimes create difficult circumstances for LGBTQ individuals and their families. As a post-Advent fellowship opportunity for people challenged by this experience, an afternoon of dialogue, reflecting on the Gospel readings of Advent, is planned for the LGBTQ parishioners to share their stories of this or previous holidays as a family member and a child of God. Family members are invited as well. Saturday January 12 3:00-5:00 Parish Center.” Jan Seaman is listed as a contact for more info.
The above article states that: “Jan Seaman is employed by the Sacramento Gay and Lesbian Center in an executive and professional capacity. She is a retired faculty member of California State University Los Angeles. Her faculty biography on the Cal State website states that her marital status is domestic partner. Her partner’s name is shown as Mary.Marks.
Mary Marks is the vice-chair of the St. Francis parish council.”
It wouldn’t appear that this conference would have the ring of a Courage meeting.
LGBTQ Catholics need a support that does not undermine the Church’s teaching. I hope this group is one of those. If it is not or it becomes not, I hope the pastor will intervene.
Anonymous a Courage group would certainly provide that kind of support.
Courage does have a chapter in Sacrmamento. Courage is a great ministry to support chastity. I know they use a 12 step program.
“By contrast, there was a priest at St. Francis who told the children that Jesus could have saved them “with a penguin.”
i have no idea what this post above means, but it certainly caught my eye.
An incredibly demoralizing dereliction of duty on the part of Bishop Soto.
Am I the only one who stands up for Bishop Jaime Soto? So be it. He has been a leader in this Diocese. If he has failures, as we all do, might I ask how many of you bother to pray for our bishop on a regular basis. I suggest you start now with three Hail Marys that our bishop will have wisdom, discernment and charity for all in our diocese.
As for St. Francis Parish, am I the only one who has been inside the church sprinkling holy water and holy salt in the pews? I suggest that all of you who are casting stones at the Bishop and at the Parish of St. Francis, pay a little visit to the church and cast your holy salt and holy water around the church. Don’t be surprised if there is a leavening effect upon the people as a result of your role in their conversion. When viewing a parish in need of reform, pray, pray, and pray.
One…., we are talking here about corruption of souls. Bishop Soto cannot continue to ignore what goes on in the name of Catholicism at St. Francis Church. No one says that prayer and holy water don’t help, but corruption requires positive action to correct those who are not sufficiently open to the graces of prayer.
No “One of the Sheep” – you are not the only one who prays regularly for our priests and Bishops and fellow parishioners for that matter. And I hope they all pray for me! And you are correct – prayer accomplishes much more than casting stones (which accomplishes nothing). But for people to know prayer is needed in a particular area, how else should we get the word out about what is happening? Most of the posts here have seemed charitable to me. Good for you for encouraging prayer!
Do we not need to include in our prayers Monsignor Murphy? On your knees, faithful Catholics, and pray 3 Hail Marys for Msgr. Murphy’s salvation! Who has offered up a mass in their local parish for Msgr. Murphy? Will you wait until his funeral mass to seek graces for his immortal soul? We are the church militant. Take your rosaries in hand and start praying for our priests, our bishops, our wayward brothers and sisters in Christ!
More can be accomplished in prayer on our knees than in casting stones at the priests God has placed over us. Do you not believe in conversion? Radical conversion? I have seen a pastor repent of living his life for himself while preaching in the pulpit at Medjuorge. He went home to head up a revitalized parish in NYC. Have you offered your money to send these priests on a retreat or a pilgrimage to a holy spot such as Medjuorje where they could be renewed in grace? If not, why not?
You are truly one of the sheep of the Good Shepherd and His Blessed Mother. You have faith.
You have a true understanding of the church militant and the task we have been given.
can we pray that this meeting ministers to a community of belivers who must cope with the cross they bear in being aflicted with the sin of same sex attraction. Similar to parishes that would host AA meetings to minister to those aflicted with alcholisim. AA meetings dont glorify the alcoholic lifestyle, nor should this gathering promote further identification with same sex attracted lifestyle. People have to be brave enough to discuss this and have the courage to allow the grace of God to work in their life to remove sin.
Karen, the Church does not teach that “same sex attraction” is a sin. Also being gay isn’t the same thing as being an alcoholic. I think comparing gay people in a negative way to alcoholics is demeaning. I find hatred of homosexuality and disdain for gay people to be sinful. Parishes such as the one mentioned here are doing good work by helping people to cope with negative attitudes towards them, such as I have mentioned.
Mark, you are again causing grave misunderstanding by mixing hatred of the sin with your perceived “hatred” of the sinner. The church teaches that a homosexual inclination is disordered and acting upon the inclination is a grave sin. Alcoholism is a much lesser sin or evil than homosexual acts. By the way, as you must know, many “gays” have addictions like alcohol, drugs, etc., in addition to sexual addiction. And no, you can’t blame these problems on the lie that “hatred” of “gays” leads to these types of addictive behaviors.
Laurette, yes, sadly some gay people are alcoholics or have drug problems. People who refer to gay people as “sodomites”, put down gay people and make fun of them show their dislike of gay people. People are not pleasing God by such actions against their brothers and sisters.
Sodomites, PA, are those who engage in same gender sex, both physically and in their heart.
Hatred of God leads to sin, PA, especially sodomy, ie gayness. Why, one might ask, would a young boy hate God. Well, PA, the young boy typically gains an awareness of God from his caretakers. When one or both of these treats the boy in some way that does not reflect God, then that false reflection moves the false and distorted image of God in the developing mind of that boy. If it is bad enough, then the boy develops a hate for it, and identifies it with God. The consequence of this hate for God is sodomy, PA, or the same sex attraction attitude you always praise.
No Skai, this is not what the Church teaches about the causes of same sex attraction.
YFC, St Paul teaches us that sodomy is the consequence of sin. Sin is hating God. Thus sodomy is the consequence of hating God. Can’t get much simpler to say than this, YFC.
PA – It’s intended to be demeaning. Anyone claiming otherwise is a liar.
as it should be….
Same sex attraction is grave moral disorder, according to the Church. PA, has been reminded of this countless times and yet he has been pinned down a number of times admitting that he refuses to believe the Church doctrine on this topic.
Skai,you believe that it is a grave moral disorder but I do not. You add your own spin to Church teaching in this regard.
The Church teaches that same sex attraction is a grave moral disorder, PA. You’ve denied this several times in past threads, brought forth by other bloggers. This denial by you is why you do not believe what the Church teaches.
Mr. Fisher – since you heard from the Diocese office, did they state that they will be in full compliance with:
“LETTER to BISHOPS of the CATHOLIC CHURCH on the PASTORAL CARE of HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS”
which can be found on the Vatican web site ?
It includes but is not limited to:
QUOTE: ” 15. We encourage the Bishops, then, to provide pastoral care in full accord with the teaching of the Church for homosexual persons of their dioceses.
No authentic pastoral programme will include organizations in which homosexual persons associate with each other without clearly stating that homosexual activity is immoral.
A truly pastoral approach will appreciate the need for homosexual persons to avoid the near occasions of sin.
We would heartily encourage programmes where these dangers are avoided. But we wish to make it clear that departure from the Church’s teaching, or silence about it, in an effort to provide pastoral care is neither caring nor pastoral.
Only what is true can ultimately be pastoral.
The neglect of the Church’s position prevents homosexual men and women from receiving the care they need and deserve. ” UNQUOTE
When Pope Paul VI said “da qualche fessura sia entrato il fumo di Satana nel tempio di Dio” (by a fissure the smoke of Satan has entered the temple of God”), I believe he was referring to the sodomites.
Malachi Martin would agree with you Juergensen. Did you read “Windswept House’?
He was referring to doubt.
Doubt about whether sodomy is a sin, right?
Juergensen, about everything. The exact text of his homily does not exist but there is a rendering of it online-try Jimmy Akin or American Catholic. Among lay people there was an attitude of “They changed their minds about eating meat on Friday, they can change their minds about (fill in the blank.)” One of the most well-known doubts was concerning artifricial contraception. Not just among laity either. Cardinal Dolan in his book “Called to Be Holy” relates the story when after Vatican II- 1968, at Kenrick Seminary in St. Louis, one fourth of the priest faculty left the priesthood; many of the students left also. The remaining faculty wanted to close the seminary because they felt that Catholic Theology and priestly formation was a thing of the past. They felt like everything had changed or would change.
Thank you, Cal Catholic for posting this article, so we know where NOT to take our children or grandchildren and not to go ourselves.
It is better to keep our children and grandchildren home than to attend a “church” such as this one.
So it is better to incur mortal sin?
One is not obligated to go to a church that teaches heresy, Anonyomous. One can either find a Catholic Church that does not teach heresy or immorality — or stay home.
Why, Anon, would it be mortal sin to keep from an evil church, and stay home if there is no way to attend a holy Church?
Skai, no Catholic Church is evil. When one attends a church where there is error or even heresy being taught, one is expected to confront the evil not run away. There is no such thing as an evil Church. There are parishes with sinful people who may substitute true doctrine with error. It is desirable then for those who understand Catholic doctrine to stay and pray and teach. Children must be educated at home from authentic Church sources. If something wrong is said, it gets corrected.
Skai, if it is a Catholic Church it is not an evil church. The priests and the parishioners may be sinners but the church itself is not evil. You have your own theology here.
PA and Anon, A Catholic Church is a phrase that has several meanings, depending on how you context it or how an implied context frames it. You both should know this.
The main objective of the gay agenda is to convince the public at large that cowardise and enslavement are good things.
Well done, the parish of St Francis. The Catechsim reminds us that “homosexuals” are to be treated with “respect, compassion, and understanding” – and understanding is not possible, unless we at the very least communicate with each other.
Thanks, Terence, we need to keep reminding people.
Respect for God comes first, Weldon; this means getting rid of the “filth” (Pope’s word) from the Vatican and the rest of the clergy. It also means eliminating all gay specific laws, all of them, all local, state, federal and international.
“gay specific” means favoring gays in my context.
WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TELL YOU ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY?
Weldon, the CCC is opinion, not Magisterium. It may point to Magisterial doctrines, but in itself, evidenced by the fact that these catechisms are published from time to time and always contain changes, and is written in a style that begs consistent interpretation, thus it is subject to false interpretation, and yours is false.