The following list published on the website of the New Ways ministry was sent by a reader to Cal Catholic on Jan. 16.
Wikipedia: “In 1999, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, then under the leadership of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, condemned [New Ways’s] positions on homosexuality and ordered co-founders Sr. Gramick and Fr. Nugent to cease pastoral ministry within the gay and lesbian community.”
From the New Ways site:
Below is a partial list of known “gay-friendly” Catholic parishes and faith communities. Thank you for helping us add to this growing list! If you are aware of such a parish that is known as welcoming to lesbian and gay Catholics as members and active parishioners, please let us know. Tell us if this welcome is because of a support program, spirituality group, mission statement, participation in gay community events, involvement with parents or simply the friendliness of pastoral staff.
Berkeley: Holy Spirit Parish
Burney: St Francis of Assisi
Carlsbad: St. Patrick
Diamond Bar: St. Denis
El Cajon: St. Luke
Encino: Our Lady of Grace
Escondido: St. Timothy
Fremont: St. Joseph – Mission San Jose
Goleta: St. Mark Univ. Parish
Hawthorne: St. Joseph (Spanish)
Hayward: All Saints
La Puente: St. Martha
Lemon Grove: St. John of the Cross
Long Beach: St. Matthew
Los Angeles: Blessed Sacrament,
Christ the King, Mother of Good Counsel, St. Camillus Center-LA USC Medical Center (Spanish), St. Agatha, St. Paul the Apostle
North Hollywood: Blessed Sacrament, St. Jane Frances de Chantal, St. Patrick
Oakland: Our Lady of Lourdes
Oceanside: St. Thomas More
Orange: Holy Family Cathedral,
Pasadena: Assumption of the B.V.M
Ross: St. Anselm
Sacramento: St. Francis of Assisi
San Carlos: St. Charles
San Diego: Ascension, San Rafael, St. Jude Shrine
San Francisco: Most Holy Redeemer, Old St. Mary’s Cathedral, St. Agnes, St. Dominic
San Jose: St. Julie Billiart, St. Martin of Tours (Emmaus Community)
San Luis Obispo: Old Mission of San Luis Obispo
San Rafael: Church of San Rafael & Mission San Rafael Archangel
Santa Barbara: OL of Guadalupe
Santa Clara: GALA
Santa Cruz: Holy Cross
Santa Monica: St. Monica
Simi Valley: St. Rose of Lima
South Pasadena: Holy Family
Stanford: Catholic Community at Stanford University
Valinda: St. Martha
Vernon: Holy Angels Church of the Deaf
Walnut Creek: St. John Vianney
West Hollywood: St. Ambrose, St. Victor
Whittier: St. Mary of the Assumption
Thanks for this great list. I presume that you’ll update it with recommendations from your readers.
I’ll add 2: Christ the King (Pleasant Hill) and St. Theresa (San Francisco).
Jesus said: “Love the sinner hate the sin”
Now: Who has the wisdom to understand this ?
When prostitude was caught and almost stoned, what Jesus said to her ?…
“Go, …and sin no more”. Who has an ear, let him hear.
What would Jesus tell to them today ?!?!? Would he tell sin no more or would He change the Scripture ?
Can someone give me the answer please ?
Anna … I worry that vis-a-vis homosexuality, in practice this has meant
hate the sin, but love the sinner as little, coldly, theoreticly and distantly as possible. Consider some of the more extreme comments here. This may be why Pope Francis wants us to not make this a big priority, at least for now.
Unrepentant Mortal Sins cause the sinners to go to Hell.
C&H there is no getting around this.
Those who love their neighbors will do their best to help them get to Heaven
“Extreme comments”, truly was is exteme is the conduct of some homosexuals…wake Anna. Maybe your difficulty in seeing is the plank in your eye?
Bill … I’m not Anna. I was replying to her. I agree. Also the conduct of some heterosexuals is extreme.
I believe Jesus has the prostitute wash his feet……was that distant? Jesus’s chief teaching is all about love and forgiveness. Not to judge others. Perhaps you should really look at yourself instead of being a judge of others.
Well, you’re half-right, Teresa. It is certainly true that we should not judge others rashly and that we should first remove the log in our own eye, but we can and must judge sinful acts as sinful. Jesus also told the woman caught in adultery to go and “sin no more.” You are, however, perfectly correct in that it is for God alone to judge souls.
Hey, I’ve got a good idea. Why don’t we ask our priests to stop talking about sin. All it does is depress us and we’ve all got enough problems to have to worry about where we will spend eternity, right
Jesus never said “love the sinner; hate the sin,” at least not explicitly.
So that makes living in sin permissible?
No, Jesus lived it. We can see it demonstrated in his actions, and so we love the sinner and hate the sin.
Besides, which is the logical application of your ridiculous statement?
Jesus didn’t love sinners or her didn’t hate sin?
You’ve dug a hole for yourself from which you cannot undig.
I believe Pope Francis is trying to say that we won’t win any converts by saying one shouldn’t engage in homosexual sex just because God said so. Rather we should cultivate a love of God first so that those who offend Him will be disinclined to continue doing so out of love for Him. Understanding that all of His commandments are borne out of love for his creatures. (Putting commandments into context because we have become a feelings first society who will reject logic unless we warm up to it first)
Unfortunately, popular culture has redefined the notion of love to equal the unconditional condoning and acceptance of illicit behavior even if said behavior is destructive to oneself and society. It is no longer popular to express the Truth of love behind discipline.
Hence, the cry of the child, “You don’t love me!” to the parent attempting to correct bad behavior. Behavior that contrary to what the child believes is abhorrent to the parent specifically because it will cause the child harm and, oftentimes, ultimate destruction.
As to speaking out against sin being a BIG PRIORITY, one is always required to speak the Truth when put to the test. No Pope can legislate that in a binding manner. That would be impossible.
Jesus also commanded the following, he didn’t suggest it, he commanded it & it is commanded out of love:
Mark 6:11 And whoever shall not receive you or hear you, when you go out of that place, shake off the dust which is under your feet for a testimony to them. Verily I say to you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorroah in the day of judgment than for that city.
Matthew 10:15 And whosoever shall not receive you, or hear your words, when you go out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Luke 9:5 Verily I say to you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and of Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.
And whoever will not receive you, when you go out of that city, shake off even the dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
Folks have to be wary of enabling people in their self-destructive lifestyle all in the name of being “kind” & “loving.” Read what Archbishop Fulton Sheen has to say about being “kind” in his great book “Peace of Soul.” The gospel calls us to invite people out of sin. Jesus first six words when his public ministry started were “Repent & believe in the gospel!”
Chris don’t forget this most important conclusion to all:
Mark 6:12: They went out and preached that people should repent.
You know, I really don’t know what exactly a “gay friendly” parish really is. Some probably do push the gay ideology but maybe the best thing to do is to go to one and listen for a while. Maybe what a group that is astray needs is someone to be a voice for common sense Christianity that is loyal to Christ and not to the gay ideology.
My take on it is that many people with same-sex attraction fall into despair over the nature of the sin. They cannot handle this extreme despair so in order to function they have to change the rules of the game, i.e., the whole gay ideology. It’s like they don’t believe that Jesus can forgive a lifetime of homosexuality. That’s not even a drop of the ocean compared to the sacrifice that Jesus made for us. He gave us more than a hundred lifetimes of sin just by being born in the manger.
People are tempted by the flesh but no one is tempted to preach the gay ideology. It is the ideology that blocks grace and further hardens the heart.
Mark F. I’m sorry I missed your reply.
God bless you in your struggle and don’t ever despair.
Your comment, ” They cannot handle this extreme despair so in order to function they have to change the rules of the game, i.e., the whole gay ideology. It’s like they don’t believe that Jesus can forgive a lifetime of homosexuality. That’s not even a drop of the ocean compared to the sacrifice that Jesus made for us.”
That is absolutely true in my experience for many who are ‘far’ from the Church. That is they are far because Christ’s perfect, all encompassing love is humanly inconceivable. That inhibits even a first step toward repentant transformation.
That said, I do believe that preaching the gay ideology is a temptation. Specifically, because those in the position to know better, that is those called to know and love Christ most intimately as the Apostles were, are doubting His promises and therefore turn toward preaching gay ideology as a means to get folks back into the Church. They do not ‘trust’ the Faith. And yet there are still many a solid priest out there, hammering for Truth via self sacrifice as they are often persecuted.
That said, yes, that ideological mindset blocks grace and hardens the heart against Faith in favor of the seemingly practical. And thank God for the graces to which you are striving to correspond.
Jesus never actually said “Love the sinner but hate the sin” although by example, he demonstrated this principle. It is important to remember that homosexuality–the condition f being sexually attracted to members of one’s own sex–is not itself a sin. Homosexuals, like all people, are called to live chastely according to their state in life. It is only when a homosexual, by thought, word, deed, or omission, acts against chastity that sin is an issue.
If we take seriously the teachings of the Catechism of the Catholic Church regarding how homosexual persons are to be treated with respect, acceptance, and love, all of our parishes will be “gay-friendly.”
Thank you Father.
Great post, Father, with one exception. The term ‘gay friendly’ leaves Holy Mother Church wide open for misrepresentation. The Church is sinner friendly and always has been. This is nothing new.
That said, I pray all priests and religious and lay faithful would take seriously the transmission of the fullness of the truth and be very clear in all communications. A unified, consistent message is key to any successful venture. No doubt that is why Christ, the embodiment of Charity, didn’t pull any punches.
God bless and thank you for posting!
Father Coiro, Jesus also by example demonstrated this principle. Jesus did not show false compassion that would enable and potentially mislead. Jesus showed such mercy when he asked others who were without sin to cast the first stone. Jesus also showed forgiveness when he told the woman to go and sin no more. Jesus never told the woman that hopefully one day that she would find an “adultery-friendly” place or parish in order to feel welcome or follow Him. Today the squeakiest and loudest wheel has received the false compassion grease label of a “gay-friendly parish”. Many have fallen into the enabling trap of false compassion when it comes to addressing many sins and not just homosexuality.
There is a very good reason why there are no brochures or public lists that proclaim that a parish is an “adultery friendly” parish or a “shacking-up” friendly parish. There are also no public lists or public requests by priests on other faithful Catholic websites where a Catholic priest comments that if the teachings are taken seriously that there will be sterilization- friendly and birth control pill -friendly parishes. As Ann Malley posted above, The Church has always welcomed the sinner. The term “gay-friendly” is wide open for misinterpretation and parishes are taking that friendliness to include the acceptance of homosexual acts. What happened to simply being kind and loving to all who are seeking the truths of the Catholic Church?
Good question Catherine, and the answer is that the experience of gay catholics is, generally, that they do not experience parishes which were “simply being kind and loving to all who are seeking the truths of the Catholic Church”. Your parish, in particular.
Perhaps it is because ‘they’ keep coming out, YFC, wearing temptation on their sleeve. I surely wouldn’t want my son or daughter hanging out with someone who advertised their serial infidelity or rampant drug abuse as just ‘who I am.’ It sends the wrong message. That of homosexual pride, not the humility we should all have regarding our crosses.
This is one reason why we have the Seal of the Confessional. To keep that which is private private so as to not rob a man or woman of his good name. If said man or woman wants to come out with his sins publicly, he/she must take ownership for the fallout…. at least to some degree.
A toddler who is a biter will not be ‘welcome’ per se in mixed company with other children until he/she overcomes his habit. Why? The habit can harm others and also influence others to adopt said behavior. In more modern terms, Taylor Swift may not be welcome in the household of parents who deeply care for their son’s heart/reputation. Why? She has a very public record of advertising particulars via songwriting.
Please try to make the connection and take some ownership.
” generally, that they do not experience parishes which were “simply being kind and loving to all who are seeking the truths of the Catholic Church”. Your parish, in particular. ”
YFC, The brothers and sisters in Christ at our parish who were once living very sinful lives by committing sinful homosexual acts or sinful heterosexual acts would certainly disagree with your current slavish attachment to homosexual acts and your current attempt to call the “salvation of souls” unloving. They have been given the grace to see though your transparent attempts to rationalize sin and I also understand that you are unwilling to see this or admit this at this present time because habitual mortal sin blinds and darkens the intellect. Our pastor told the Legion of Mary members that the homosexuals, as well as heterosexuals who changed their sinful lifestyles in order to worthily receive Our Lord in Holy Communion, thanked him profusely for having loving parishioners who showed them that they were all welcome. Many wanted to give beautiful gifts after they felt such joy for repenting and we told them that this was not necessary. The true gift was the desire to be pleasing to God. YFC, It is mortal sin that should be avoided and not welcomed into your heart but sadly it has been welcomed into your heart and this is the cause of your current rebellion against God’s Revealed Truths. The good news is Christ came to redeem all sinners YFC including you and me. The same individuals at our parish, who once justified certain sins would tell you to stop fooling yourself like they once tried to fool themselves when they wanted to rationalize the committing of sinful homosexual acts or sinful heterosexual acts that offended God. The answer to the question YFC is for all sinners to stop offending God by rationalizing and welcoming the committing of habitual sin.
Father you deeply in error….and I am concerned by your comments here….they really concern me
“GO AND SIN NO MORE”!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
What Jesus taught can not be changed. If Jesus were here today he would say “go & sin no more”. We are not created to live sinful lifestyles, quite the contrary, God has created us to something that totally transcends worldly desires & disordered pleasure seeking. “If we are not in hot pursuit of the One, we are frantically chasing the many.” Fr. Thomas Dubay
“Go and sin no more”.
NOT – “Go and sin whenever you want”.
BTW, I consider the exsitence of these parishes and their welcoming attitude to be a POSITIVE thing. The more, the better.
When Pope Paul VI lamented that “da qualche fessura sia entrato il fumo di Satana nel tempio di Dio” (“through a fissure the smoke of Satan has entered the temple of God”) (29 June 1972), he was referring to the sodomites who have infiltrated the Church.
That has been widely assumed, I realize, but on what is this interpretation based? Much evidence of sin and shame has come to light in many aspects of church hierarchy, and not all of it has to do with homosexuality or even with sexual misconduct. Sin is not limited to homosexuality within the Church or without.
If the sodomites in the Church are not the smoke of Satan, then nothing is.
I suppose you channel Paul VI every day. I don’t suppose the smoke of satan could be, oh say, a lack of submission to the Holy See by those opposed to VII?
No, YFC, it couldn’t be because those who adopt all sorts of novel nonsense do so in the name of VII. Otherwise, Paul VI should have been celebrating at his bishops open dissent after Humane Vitae. Not lamenting.
It is sodomites who are opposed to VII. The Catechism of the Catholic Church contains more citations to VII than to any other source besides scripture, and is indeed known as the “Catechism of Vatican II”. And yet, sodomites reject the CCC and its condemnation of homosexual acts as “intrinsically disordered” and “acts of grave depravity” (CCC 2357). As such, sodomites reject VII and its fruit, the CCC.
I have always beard and believed that Pope Paul VI was referring to the refusal of some, even among bishops, to accept the Second Vatican Council and its decrees when he said that the smoke of Satan had entered into the Church.
Referring to the situation of the Church today, the Holy Father affirms that he has a sense that “from some fissure the smoke of Satan has entered the temple of God.” There is doubt, incertitude, problematic, disquiet, dissatisfaction, confrontation. There is no longer trust of the Church; they trust the first profane prophet who speaks in some journal or some social movement, and they run after him and ask him if he has the formula of true life. And we are not alert to the fact that we are already the owners and masters of the formula of true life. Doubt has entered our consciences, and it entered by windows that should have been open to the light. Science exists to give us truths that do not separate from God, but make us seek him all the more and celebrate him with greater intensity; instead, science gives us criticism and doubt. Scientists are those who more thoughtfully and more painfully exert their minds. But they end up teaching us: “I don’t know, we don’t know, we cannot know.” The school becomes the gymnasium of confusion and sometimes of absurd contradictions. Progress is celebrated, only so that it can then be demolished with revolutions that are more radical and more strange, so as to negate everything that has been achieved, and to come away as primitives after having so exalted the advances of the modern world.
This state of uncertainty even holds sway in the Church. There was the belief that after the Council there would be a day of sunshine for the history of the Church. Instead, it is the arrival of a day of clouds, of tempest, of darkness, of research, of uncertainty. We preach ecumenism but we constantly separate ourselves from others. We seek to dig abysses instead of filling them in.
There is no need for uncertainty. There is no need for confusion.
Everyone should read the Bible (especially the New Testament starting with the birth of Christ), and the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” from cover to cover.
Popes Francis, Benedict, and Blessed John Paul II have all asked us to read the CCC. There are no excuses.
When we are judged by Jesus, those of us who live in the USA will not be able to plead innocence due to ignorance.
CCC: ” 1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility.
This is the case when a man takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.
In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.”
Father Coiro, you make much more sense to me than some of the other notions I’ve heard expressed in here!
I recently watched a film about Pope Paul VI and was horrified to watch the behavior of Bishop Marcel Lefebvre (an active, albeit angry, participant in the Second Vatican Council) who thought he knew better than the Church, and treated the Holy Father with such disdain and rudeness.
In his refusal to move even one inch ahead, as the Church must always do, he created such terrible schism and hatred in the Body of Christ.
Ah yes, Father Coiro, but who was promoting this interpretation of Satan’s smoke – those who later yielded to Humane Vitae or those who took the idea of collegiality and broke into open dissent against the Pope and the time honored teachings of Holy Mother Church.
So whereas the ‘smoke’ may not refer to sodomy in particular, the fruits point to ‘Do what thou wilt,’ and trusting Bishops to ‘do the right thing’ being the smoking gun. (It’s those with the power and authority to teach that have the power and authority to teach that which is incorrect and/or suppress the truth, Father.)
Anonymous writes or quotes: “We preach ecumenism but we constantly separate ourselves from others.” This sounds very emotional and deep. But it is precisely this that leaves the door or window open to the supposedly ‘false’ prophets Anonymous denigrates in his/her own post.
For if we are to not separate ourselves, if that is the chief calling, then the very idea of labeling someone/anyone as a ‘false’ prophet is divisive. What a grand dilemma. Dialogue and water down the faith with anyone who doesn’t accept it in its entirety, but decry false prophet and schismatic any who accept the faith in its fullness.
Gotta love that collegiality and all the higher education paid for by parishioners only to get legislated out of their own Church!
I’m sorry for the confusion, Ann Malley. It was not my writing. It is part of the homily known as the “Smoke of Satan” homily. It is Pope Paul VI’s writing.
Like I said in my post, Anonymous, what I wrote could be applied to that which was quoted as well. No worries.
God bless :)
complete misrepresentation of the post that you were responding to.
When our current Holy Father tells us that we cannot know, YFC, and that having certainty implies that we have nothing flies in direct contrast to the supposed words of Pope Paul VI with regards to the reliance upon Science, “I don’t know, we don’t know, we cannot know.” The school becomes the gymnasium of confusion and sometimes of absurd contradictions.
Yes, it does become a gymnasium of confusion when those in the position of power and authority….”… are not alert to the fact that we are already the owners and masters of the formula of true life. Doubt has entered our consciences, and it entered by windows that should have been open to the light.” Or rather, many in positions of authority are very aware of what the Church holds, but the reality is, they don’t because they’ve chosen to follow that which is outside Faith and teach their doubt to the formerly faithful.
Methinks they keyed upon the word MASTER and made the best of it to tweak whatever might suit their fancy instead of being a servant to the Master.
Father you are mistaken…Ill keep you in my prayers.
Pope Benedict XVI referred to the sodomite priests in the Church as “filth”, right in line with Pope Paul VI’s “smoke of Satan”.
If the sodomites in the Church are not the smoke of Satan, please tell us what they are. Angels of the Lord?
What does “welcoming lesbian and gay Catholics” mean? Does it mean that these churches, and their clergy, accept homosexual sexual people and tell them that everything that they do with each other is fine with God? Do they embrace them as loved ones, in a true Christian way, and tell them that, for whatever reason, they must resist their awful temptation for each other? That failing to do this may very will consign them to Hell? This is true love, not the simpering, “God made you this way, so God loves you no matter what you do,” way. Hollywood and rock stars may like to talk about “marriage equality” and the “right to love” but they are the Devil’s disciples. Just take a look at Katy Perry’s “Dark Horse” performance; pretty much all Satanic. These people will deny you Heaven, if you let yourself go. Unfortunately, many welcoming arms are attached to the very people — priests, sisters, Catholic laity, and even bishops — that are supposed to tell you the truth. But, you see, these people are also lost, and want you to be lost with them. It must be most difficult in CA for homosexuals to actually live their faith as good and honest Catholics. God bless you for the cross that you must bear. But do not be fooled by the “welcomers;” repentance is necessary, and avoidance of even the near occasion of homosexual sexual sin is required. Find a real priest, or lay person, that will pray with you and tell you the truth. We are all sinners, after all, and all of us need help to make it through to Paradise.
Very well stated. Unfortunately, many will accuse you of awful things. But don’t be discouraged if it appears your words are not bearing fruit. As Mother Theresa said (paraphrased)”God did not ask me to be successful, but only to try”
Wow. Did you speak up when children were being hurt by priests?
Amen and amen! These people will “love” you straight into Hell.
To: St. Christoher,
Very well said. I had the very same thoughts and was ready to write them down. But you said it all.
As a matter of fact, our parish is on this list and a very many of the parishioners are dismayed because the pastor believes the Church is “behind the times” and that “in the future, you will be able to marry whomever you want.” This priest omits the penitential rite from our Masses. We fear he will hold secret “marriage” ceremonies and we already know that lies are being conveyed to visitors and new members. Some of us will leave the parish, but others have invested too much in relationships here. Please PRAY that people who see this list and come to our parish will meet the right people and discover the TRUTH.
You need to call out that Priest.
When a priest doesn’t follow Catholic teachings and the order of the mass, I believe that it is the responsibility of the parishioner to find a new parish. “You say that “others have invested too much in relationships” (friends) to leave. It is also each parishioners responsibility to follow the mass and to learn and fellowship as the Church prescribes. These catholics must trust God for new friendships. When people leave the parish, the parish priest will understand that replacing church teachings with his own has personal consequences for him. To remain while a priest is arrogantly ignoring what our church is saying should not be tolerated.
Every parish must be open/inclusive of all, however, the parish has a moral obligation to remain faithful to the Church’s teaching in the area of concern!
And those who are known to be publically persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to Holy Communion.
Sacrilege as well as Scandal are both Mortal Sins. CCC #2284, 2285, 2286, 2326,
Canons 915 and 1399.
” LETTER to the BISHOPS of the CATHOLIC CHURCH on the PASTORAL CARE of HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS ”
” 15. We encourage the Bishops, then, to provide pastoral care in full accord with the teaching of the Church for homosexual persons of their dioceses. No authentic pastoral programme will include organizations in which homosexual persons associate with each other without clearly stating that homosexual activity is immoral.
A truly pastoral approach will appreciate the need for homosexual persons to avoid the near occasions of sin. ”
TEM, I tend to agree with you,,, everyone should feel they have a place in the Church, but they must be taught to surrender their wills to Christ, die to their sins and pick up their Crosses and follow Him….but they must not feel their sins or “lifestyle” should be celebrated
Canisius… Really there is no one gay lifestyle. A lesbian soccer mom’s is more like a straight soccer mom’s than say a gay hustler who works the bath houses. Then there is my crazy LS which is very much like a straight single woman trying to build a struggling business which consumes more of her time and energy than she’d like.
Please C&H the very fact that numerous parishes around the country have rainbow flags hanging from the rafters sends a signal that the parish celebrates a certain sub group and how they live their lives….Please for the love of God Almighty quit trying to normalize homosexuality…. there is nothing normal about it
When I lived in Long Beach years ago, St. Matthew was known as a church for gays.
For people trying to be faithful Catholics, I’m not sure it was the best decision to publish this list.
NEW WAYS MINISTRY is a heretical and schismatic organization that promotes the sinful lifestyle of sodomy as being equal to non-sinful lifestyles.
It also promotes sodomy marriage.
And is working to change Church teachings to accept these sexual mortal sins.
If you love someone with same sex attraction – ask them to stay away from New Ways Ministry for the salvation of their Soul.
BIBLE: Gen 19:1-29; Rom 2:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10.
CCC: 2357, 2358, 2359, & 2396.
Welcome all but be not afraid to share the truth with all.
Unless there has been some sort of PUBLIC scandal, there is no need to tell everyone in our Parish our sins.
Under ususal circumtances it is none of their business.
PUBLIC Scandal demands public reparation.
However, we will stand before Christ to be judged at our death.
At the end of the world, Christ will judge us again and everyone will know everyone else’s sins.
Homosexual activity is sinful and must be avoided. The churches teachings on the matter are from the present and are rooted all the way back to the first books of the Old Testament. I like Blessed JPII’s critical distinction, we can and should love the sinner, but, despise the sin. In this case, the sin is especially grievous, an “abomination” and morally “grave”. That said, come, nourish your SOULS, be healed. Perhaps, there might be a divine purpose in your same-sex attraction(?)
St. Christopher , well said, I can’t add anything else…….
Matthew, you have not defined your terms and are therefore dictating the definition of “gay”. Having homosexual (disordered) tendencies is not the same as being “gay”. In common understood parlance, being “gay” means you are an active homosexual, or are advocating, accepting and/or promoting active homosexuality. The “gay friendly” churches on the list (and many others that are not named) support “gays” in their vice, and they also trade on the confusion that is brought about by muddying up the words so those who support “gays” will denounce those who try to tell the truth by calling them “intolerant” or “bigoted”. “Gay” is part of the Culture of Death and God will not be mocked!
Laurette, I would just note that “gay” doesn’t really mean that the person is sexually active. Most gays are sexually active, so maybe that’s why you say what you say, but when one “comes out as gay”, for example, one isn’t saying anything about how they act on it or not. On the other hand, one almost never comes out as “homosexual” as an attempt to say that they are celibate. Being straight, gay, lesbian, or bisexual describes an orientation, not one’s sexual activity.
Fellow, you are not thinking and speaking with any logic, nor are you willing to acknowledge my point. Re your last point, there is no such thing as a straight, gay, lesbian or bisexual orientation. Is there also a pedophile orientation? How about a necrophilia orientation? The orientation lie is a scam to fool those who can’t admit the truth. We are all created as heterosexual. Those who veer from that path are disoriented.
Well said Laurette.
Well said!? Laurette, you accuse YFC of lacking logic, while at the same time your post reeks of profound ignorance. Unless you are being deliberately obtuse, please check what your peddling as “truth”.
Laurette, it is not logical to ignore the vast experience of millions of people, professional psychologists, biologists, spiritual directors, and moral theologians. Not to mention the very teachings of our church. There is widespread acknowledgment that there IS such a thing as sexual orientation, including gay, straight and bisexual orientations, and that those orientations are not sinful in and of themselves. Where is the logic in denying what professionals, clergy, and the laity widely agree upon?
YFC, I agree with you being merry and lighthearted doesn’t really mean the person is sexually active. I suppose that you are also correct when you say that most merry and lighthearted people are sexually active. I further agree with you that being merry and lighthearted describes an orientation and not one’s sexual activity.
Anyway, YFC, I’m glad you cleared all of this up for those of us who may still be ignorant with regards to this issue. I sure know I will sure rest easier tonight :)
I have to concur that Blessed Sacrament in Hollywood, where I was baptized many decades ago and later confirmed, does indeed have a small special ministry that serves gay parishioners. Unless I’m incredibly naïve, which I grant I may be, I see these few active gay Catholics in that group as being accepted as human beings, and helped. I never saw their orientation promoted.
Because it is a long drive for me now to that beautiful church, I now attend Blessed Sacrament only rarely, but the majority of the members I’ve known and I observe there seem to be living unremarkable family lives and appear to be only vaguely aware that there is an organization for gay Catholics there.
But come on, friends, the way the city has gone in recent years, is it reasonable for a Catholic church in the heart of Hollywood not to acknowledge that there are gay Catholics in the area who may benefit from additional services? The greatest ministry at that church by far is for the homeless, and Blessed Sacrament is one of the most effective churches in California in that focus, which is greatly needed.
In Simi Valley, my friends at nearby St. Rose of Lima in Ventura County are blissfully unaware of any special gay-friendly orientation, nor have I noticed it myself when visiting.
Being Friendly to ‘Happy’ People (or those visiting from the Greek Island of Lesbos) is all part of the Catholic Tradition – after all it is a big Church and Worldwide.
Too Bad that the story is actually about Parishes that are Hostile to those who Follow the Wise Moral Teachings of the Church and Magisterium – and make practicing Catholics know they are Not Happy about their presence.
In such places it is a Zero Sum proposition – one either Panders to Misandry (Hatred of Men & Boys, Masculinity and Normal Heterosexuality) or is too Un-Good to participate in the Parish.
This way – nobody can interfere with the Sunday Collection being used the other six days a week to push the Alinskyite Pogroms of the Abomination BAMN – By Any Means Necessary.
Indeed a BAMN BAMN ‘church’ (Bash Marriage & Men = By Any Means Necessary) is the only type ‘church’ the Happy Campers feel at home in – because it is so Politically Exclusive to Un-Believers – in the Party Line.
I would be a bit careful about making rash judgments about this list. Not quite sure how New Ways bases their standards. I do know that parishes like St. Rose of Lima in Simi is run by one of the most orthodox and traditional pastors in California, Fr. Joe Shea. I know him personally and I can personally testify that he does not and never has condoned homosexual behavior. He strictly and compassionately upholds all Church teaching (including morals) and preaches that to his flock.
For NEW WAYS MINISTRY info go to their web site.
This organization must not be permitted within the Catholic Church.
They twist the truth, and want to change Church teaching in favor of a sinful lifestyle.
No where on the site do they state sodomy or other sexual sins is a grave sin – as required.
Del… I checked out the web site of a couple of them. No mention of any LGBT minestry or groups. Really, I think most parishes I know of are gay friendly in that we arn’t marginalized or turned away. That kind of thing only seems to happen in what my brother calls “holy roller” churchs.
Are those who are ‘turned away’ turned away because they simply attend mass? Or rather because they feel the need to overtly advertise their LGBT status, thereby making that the issue.
I could walk into a mosque and be accepted. But if I walked into a mosque dressed in a manner that called attention to my rejection of the law of Islam and then felt compelled – so nobody would want to fix me up with their nephew – to tell believers that I believed Muhammad might have been a homosexual, I’d likely get booted out.
But was *I* rejected? Or was it what I professed and advertised that was rejected? There is a huge difference.
Thank you for your clear logic! : )
God bless you, Catherine. Hope you’re having a great day!
Ann Malley excellent response. Refreshing to read logical thinkers!
Thanks, Abeca, but in truth most everyone reading CCD already knows these things. We’re just kidding ourselves if we say we don’t. God bless and thanks for being there :)
Of the parishes named that I’m familiar with: Holy Spirit, Our Lady of Lourdes, Holy Family Cathedral, St. Monica’s, Most Holy Redeemer and St. Dominic’s, this seems like a very accurate list. (And I’m sure New Ways wouldn’t list a parish as gay friendly if it weren’t.)
Holy Family Cathedral had an openly gay man on parish staff for many years. Holy Spirit has many gay couples who attend.
Dave N ,,, I my small parish besides me I know of one gay man, a lesbian couple and anther guy who might be gay, I’m sure there are others as I mainly know 11:00 mass people.
Isn’t Holy Family the (former) Cathedral church of the Diocese of Orange?
Holy Family continues to serve as the cathedral church of the Orange Diocese since the future Christ Cathedral has not been renovated yet and won’t be ready to be dedicated as the new cathedral church until 2015 or 2016. I imagine that Holy Family will then be known as “the old cathedral” as St. Mary of the Immaculate Conception here in San Francisco is called.
It may well be that “NWM” posts some parishes to push them towards their ammoral lifestyles. I would not put it past them.
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Thomas Edward Miles,
Gathering from some of your writings, it seems that you may have repented of your ways. If so, praise God and His Mother!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Anybody Remember The ‘Swastika’ Incident (not the one where judge Marilyn Hall Patel used a staged racist hoax to trash the SFFD & threaten the Chiefs with Prison because of what everyone knew – but no one dared say – was a Racist Hoax)…
But the Other Swastika Incident – which BTW has been Scrubbed from the SF Chronicle Website, but is still available (with pretty picture) at:
Prop 8 protestors vandalize church
Sunday, January 04, 2009 https://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?id=6584961
SAN FRANCISCO (KGO) — Vandals spray-painted swastikas on a Catholic church in San Francisco’s Castro District Saturday night.
It appears the vandals are upset about the Catholic church’s support of Proposition 8, which made same-sex marriage illegal in California.,,
San Francisco Police are investigating the vandalism.”
Women rule the world, if only for a little while – SFGate
For a few hours Saturday night, Vicki Noblegot a fleeting glimpse of a World Devoid of Men — and she came away excited and deeply moved.
In case anyone hasn’t bee clued in yet – WE are being ‘monitored’ – by the Gaystapo.
Yes – the ‘happy’ folks send watchers in to parishes to ensure political conformity, and particularly keep tabs on those who Actually Teach the Catholic Faith – which is unacceptable in ‘accepting’ parishes.
I see one parish on the list where the ‘Gay Mafia’ is pretty much in control – from recruiting college students for the Fleabagger Riots (fighting the native rats occupying Ogawa plaza) to joining the ‘Womyn-Pest movement…
And during a Parish Meeting dealing with various routine issues, when I dared include in our prayers Pope Benedict and his Wise Moral Teachings – the music minister got up in a huff and sashayed out in protest of praise for the ‘Anti-Happy Pope’.
Apparently this did not stop him from cashing his paycheck funded by Donations of the Faithful – let alone look for work in a ‘Happier’ venue.
Tush, tush, Mr. McDermott, we are not supposed to be concerned about any monitoring, and even thinking aloud such thoughts is “being divisive’— yet another reason to follow Pope F’s advice to “go soft” on the ‘happy-issue’ :). (Mr Kadlec in his posts below hasnt gotten the memo either.)
Saint Catherine of Siena, a religious mystic of the 14th century, relays words of Our Lord Jesus Christ about the vice against nature, which contaminated part of the clergy in her time. Referring to sacred ministers, He says: “They not only fail from resisting this frailty [of fallen human nature] . . . but do even worse as they commit the cursed sin against nature. Like the blind and stupid, having dimmed the light of their understanding, they do not recognize the disease and misery in which they find themselves. For this not only causes Me nausea, but displeases even the demons themselves, whom these miserable creatures have chosen as their lords. For Me, this sin against nature is so abominable that, for it alone, five cities were submersed, by virtue of the judgment of My Divine Justice, which could no longer bear them. . . . It is disagreeable to the demons, not because evil displeases them and they find pleasure in good, but because their nature is angelic and thus is repulsed upon seeing such an enormous sin being committed. It is true that it is the demon who hits the sinner with the poisoned arrow of lust, but when a man carries out such a sinful act, the demon leaves.”
Saint Augustine is categorical in the combat against sodomy and similar vices. The great Bishop of Hippo writes: “Sins against nature, therefore, like the sin of Sodom, are abominable and deserve punishment whenever and wherever they are committed. If all nations committed them, all alike would be held guilty of the same charge in God’s law, for our Maker did not prescribe that we should use each other in this way. In fact, the relationship that we ought to have with God is itself violated when our nature, of which He is Author, is desecrated by perverted lust.”
The brilliant Patriarch of Constantinople employs most severe words for the vice we are analyzing. Saint John Chrysostom makes this strong argument: “All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more prejudiced and degraded by sin than is the body by disease; but the worst of all passions is lust between men. . . . The sins against nature are more difficult and less rewarding, so much so that one cannot even say that they procure pleasure, since true pleasure is only the one according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned upside down! Therefore, not only are their passions [of the homosexuals] satanic, but their lives are diabolic. . . . So I say to you that these are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body. . . . There is nothing, absolutely nothing more mad or damaging than this perversity.”
..great quote, Mr Kadlec, thank you. St John C. was apparently not aware of Pope Francis’ memo to “go soft” on this topic…
“My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge, and the way that will lead you to God.”
The Message of Our Lady of Fatima (Selections)
(Fatima, Portugal, 1917)
By Dom Augustine Marie, OSB
Edited and Notes by Br Sean, OSsS
1. “More souls go to Hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other
reason. ” Sr Lucia, the last living Fatima seer, said this refers primarily to sins against chastity, also called sins of impurity. The reason for this statement is not because sins against chastity are the most grievous sins, but the most common and, as Sr Lucia stated, “because of conscience, ” since sins of impurity are less likely to be repented of than other sins. Why? 1) because the sense of injustice committed, which is the primary stimulus to repent of one’s sins, is not strongly felt when engaging in them, with the exception of adultery; 2) there is a greater sense of shame when committing certain impure acts and hence greater difficulty confessing them in the sacrament of confession, or even repenting of them in one’s heart; 3) sexual activity of all kinds is presented by our post-Christian — even anti-Christian — popular culture as natural and good, and sexual abstinence is even
taught to be unhealthy. The sixth commandment, relating to chastity, has always been called “the difficult commandment.” Today, with pornography everywhere and women and girls dressing more immodestly than ever, it can almost be called “the impossible commandment.” However, Jesus assures us: “What is impossible with men is possible with God.” (Lk 18:27) We may add that all who invoke the Blessed Virgin Mary for help in overcoming sins of impurity, will receive the grace to do so, as she herself has revealed to St Bridget of Sweden and various other saints. And those who strive to live chaste lives know from experience, when sins of impurity are humbly repented of and confessed, a great burden is removed from our consciences, and we experience that peace of soul that the world and carnal indulgence cannot give. “
In the beginning God made male and female. All human beings are sexual. God did not make anyone anything other than sexual. The only context for sexual activity is within the sacred, protective bounds of marriage. It should be needless to say but I must that marriage is only between one man and one woman. Our primary identity is not in our sexuality although rightly ordered it is a source of grace. Only two options exist for identity and that is male or female. The only rightly ordered identity for sexuality is marital and non-marital, male or female, nuptial or celebate. To identify yourself as anything else, such as “bi-sexual”, “a-sexual”, “homo-sexual”, or any other kind of sexual is to not understand your true identity in Christ. It is a lie. The truth will set you free.
I should add for clarity that the only context for sexual activity is between physically mature and responsible male and female individuals within the protective bounds of marriage. Certainly, this is because of the sexual powers of procreation. If you keep the fire in the furnace it is good for the home. Burn the wood anywhere else in the house and you destroy your home.
ceratainly you do not understand what it means to be gay.
YFC writes, “certainly you do not understand what it means to be gay.”
YFC, Your posts have certainly shown what it means to be a “gay activist” who continuously denies reality, Church teaching, and how “gay activists” ignore and undermine anything that points to the fact that you also have to pick up your cross like the rest of us and as St. Christopher recently stated, “start rowing.” The “gay activists” who want to ignore Church teaching do not want others to understand what it really means to be a Catholic. Our roaming activists who claim to be Catholic certainly do understand that the Catholic Church welcomes all sinners. That is not enough. These particular activists, such as yourself, also want homosexual acts to be “welcomed and affirmed” as being gifts that are part of the understanding of being gay. Hence the transparent ability that allows you to ignore and not answer simple questions that Mark F asked you on several occasions and your ability to boast about offending God while living in a 22 year habitually sinful life while also claiming to be an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion.
Catherine, I have never seen a single bit of evidence to conclude that YFC is promoting a a merry and lighthearted lifestyle, nor disposition here. What he repeatedly does promote here, however, is the queering of marriage.
Queer (adjective) — Deviating from the expected or normal; strange. Eccentric.
(verb) — To ruin or thwart.
My fellow Catholic, YFC, you are correct. They do not understand what it is to be gay. You can stay here and keep trying to educate them. They interpret these things as a poke in the eye and then they swing back and end up saying worse things. So…why don’t you choose to leave them in peace? I know that you live and love in the way the Lord has asked you to. I know when you said that you were chaste you got hit with the bigotry of “Gay people don’t mean the same thing straight people do by that.” You are not going to change people like that. Honestly, they are just kind of dirty minded people. There are actually more straight people who commit sodomy than gay people but of course straight people aren’t defined by that, are they? So, I ask you to think about what brings peace to you and your partner. You don’t have to have this hatred in your life.
Anonymous, it has been pointed out many times on CCD that heterosexual couples commit sodomy, that is mortal sin, on a regular basis. THIS IS WRONG as it offends God. Sodomy is wrong for all people.
The issue with homosexual ‘couples’, especially those who claim to be Catholic, is that they push for a public acceptance of that which offends God. This adds adds scandal to the mix. This is not the fruit of dirty minds, but rather the natural ability to view what is being advertised.
The old saying, two wrongs do not make a right would apply.
So please, pray for the end of Sodomy.
This anonymous speaks great trash! It’s all garbage what this Anony is trying to feed people. Don’t let the devil fool you….especially in an anonymous nature, you would not know if the devil himself was posting, why do you think we need exorcisms, because he does exist and he is using people to do his dirty work.
A Prayer for Purity
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, I entrust and consecrate myself entirely to you – mind, heart and body. Guard and defend me always from every sin. May my mind be uplifted to heavenly things, may my heart love God more and more, may I avoid every evil occasion. Hold me close to you, so that I may keep watch of my internal and external senses. Preserve me from all impurity, and help me to serve you with undefiled mind, pure heart and chaste body, so that in heaven I may join the blessed company of the saints. AMEN
Catechism of the Catholic Church- Second Edition
2526 So called moral permissiveness rests on an erroneous conception of human freedom; the necessary precondition for the development of true freedom is to let oneself be educated in the moral law. Those in charge of education can reasonably be expected to give young people instruction respectful of the truth, the qualities of the heart, and the moral and spiritual dignity of man.
2527 “The Good News of Christ continually renews the life and culture of fallen man; it combats and removes the error and evil which flow from the ever-present attraction of sin. It never ceases to purify and elevate the morality of peoples. It takes the spiritual qualities and endowments of every age and nation, and with supernatural riches it causes them to blossom, as it were, from within; it fortifies, completes, and restores them in Christ.”316
Anonymous, an interesting post. However, Catherine reminds us that we are to pick up our cross and carry it. I would surely be more peaceful if I left CCD and its good measure of vitriol behind. But crosses are meant to be carried, my friend, and she surely is a cross. I will carry her so that love will conquer hate.
Thank you Catherine. Beautiful prayer. I appreciate you posting, I need to pray it often because it’s easy to fall into temptations…especially here since many here condone great evils and are trying to buy souls for the evil one.
I am tired of the trash people have embraced, I loath anything that hurts my salvation and the salvation of many unsuspecting souls.
How can we approach Jesus as His little children with all this garbage being fed into ones souls. Jesus paid a great price for our salvation, and people still continue to cheapen what He did for us by selling themselves short. Jesus is pure, Jesus is love…this custom of down playing sins, desensitizing, it is costing the salvation of many souls. Its heart breaking and more so when priests give the wrong impression too, that they are down playing sin too.
Perhaps, YFC, in carrying Catherine, you will come to know that the hate of sin is sweet, much like the yoke of Christ. For sadly we are all punished for the embracing of Sodomy, whether we commit it personally or not.
YFC, I share with you this prayer from St. Faustina:
Mary, my Mother and my Lady, I offer You my soul, my body, my life and my death, and all that will follow it. I place everything in Your hands. O my Mother, cover my soul with Your virginal mantle and grant me the grace of purity of heart, soul and body. Defend me with Your power against all enemies, and especially against those who hide their malice behind the mask of virtue. O lovely lily! You are for me a mirror, O my Mother!
What a lovely prayer, Anonymous. Purity of heart, soul, and body is key as is knowing that often the doctor that diagnoses and causes pain in treatment is often our very BEST friend.
YFC writes, “However, Catherine reminds us that we are to pick up our cross and carry it.”
“Mount Calvary is the academy of love.” -St. Francis de Sales
St. Ansgar, whose feast is Feb 3rd, had a school where there was an incident where one boy hit another with a piece of wood and the victim died. St. Ansgar was permitted by God to accompany the boy’s soul to heaven where he was placed with the martyrs in a shining dwelling. St. Ansgar was given to understand that the young victim was given this reward because he had accepted his wound with patience and truly loved and prayed for the boy who assaulted him.
YFC, you told David that you are CERTAIN that he doesn’t understand what it means to be merry and lighthearted. Now, granted his post was of the serious nature, but I don’t know how you can base your conclusion with such certainty on one single post alone.
Anyway, give the guy a break. I personally think that society would benefit if more people decided to return to taking life a bit more seriously. There are occasions when being merry and lighthearted is just downright inappropriate.
No tracy, I told David that he didn’t understand what it means to be gay. I think I have some what more knowledge, experience, and study than you or he. You are the one mocking the conversation and the people in it.
YFC, we all understand that same-sex attraction is a temptation.
We are all tempted to sin in one way or another.
For you or anyone else to publically promote a sinful lifestyle is not only against God’s will, but may lead others into serious sin.
Promoting/approving of/ mortal sin is the work of the Devil.
CCC: ” 1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
– by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
– by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
– by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
– by protecting evil-doers.”
Trust in God.
Repent of your sins. And encourage others NOT to sin.
Dear YFC, you have no idea what people do and do not understand. They certainly understand that you actively and publically promote a mortally sinful lifestyle.
Now here is the truth from a heterosexual. My current husband and I are divorced Catholics, who have civilly married each other. This is a mortal sin.
After several years of living in sin, together we decided to do God’s will rather than our own wills.
In order to receive the Body and Blood of our Lord – this means complete continance for both of us. Do you think this is easy?
We have been back to the Sacraments for 3 years now. I love my civil husband and myself so much that I want us both to get to Heaven more than my sexual pleasures. (It does get easier when you stay close to God and time passes.)
For more info for divorced and civilly remarried Catholics, see the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” – # 1650 & 1651 – regarding the necessity of continence.
God bless you, Becky, for corresponding with grace to reveal your abiding love of Christ. And God reward you for truly loving your civil husband enough to CHOOSE that which is necessary for his salvation! And highly pleasing to God.
Would that more Catholics would faithfully choose (and be taught) that which pleases God, no matter the sacrifice. For love of Him.
I had an irregular marriage situation at one point and was advised by the pastor of the diocesan Church via his female Church representative to go to confession so I would ‘feel’ better about my irregular situation – and then go on sleeping next to this occasion of sin as if everything was okay.
It was only after I pointed out that ‘Father’ was indicating I lie when making an act of contrition that the urgency of my situation addressed. And in an offhanded, if-you-insister manner of seeming annoyance. But so be it. If I had followed such ‘guidance’ I’d have added false witness and sacrilege to an already impressive list of mortal sins. I’d have exchanged that moment of GRACE for that of human agency to make things manageable. The same machination that leads many souls away from Truth all together.
As it turns my spouse and I received further correction and entered upon an extended period of total continence due to unresolved mortal sin. It was difficult at the time as my husband was unbaptized, looking upon the situation as absurd. But I’ve no doubt that it was in part the commitment to the seriousness of the situation that ultimately brought him to the Faith.
God bless you, Becky, and thanks for posting.
Becky, when you post that you and your husband are chaste, you will be believed. When YFC posts that, he is treated with suspicion.
Chaste in the married state means being faithful to one’s spouse. That is not cheating on them. So if YFC states that he ‘has a spouse’ and is ‘chaste’ that is to imply that he doesn’t cheat on his ‘spouse’.
This is not the same as celibate or completely continent. That is refraining from sexual relations. That’s why you notice there is a difference, Anonymous.
To see St Anselm Church in Ross listed as a “gay friendly parish” makes me laugh!
I think the Irish pastor there would have a heart attack if he ever read this website or heard this nonsense.
Suzanne, the list was not invented by CCD. Did you fail to read the first paragraph of the article? “The following list published on the website of the New Ways ministry was sent by a reader to Cal Catholic on Jan. 16.” If any of the churches listed are incorrect, then it is New Ways ministry which has it wrong, not CCD. Actually, if you read the article, New Ways ministry is basing their list on input from their members. They further state that the list is partial and growing. “If you are aware of such a parish that is known as welcoming to lesbian and gay Catholics as members and active parishioners, please let us know.”
I could actually place my parish on that list. No, my parish does not put out a welcome sign to any one group or individual. However, people of all persuasions are present there in spite of the fact that the pastor nor the resident priest does not water down the message of the Gospel. I am thinking that St. Anselm church has a New Wave parishioner, who DOES feel welcome there.
Do NOT do add your Church to the “gay friendly” list at NEW WAYS MINISTRY.
You will be leading others into sin.
NEW WAYS MINISTRY supports sodomy marriage, and sinful activity amongst same-sex persons.
It is a heretical and schismatic organization.
In fact, you may want to tell your Pastor or Bishop to tell them to take your Parish name off of their web site.
Actually Phil, while I acknowledge you concerns, my position is, that if I listed my parish with that heretical organization, maybe a poor soul will be led to find conversion in a parish which actually upholds the teachings of the Church.
Tracy you can not add to the support of heretical and schimatic sites.
It makes others believe that NEW WAYS MINISTRY is an appropriate organization to belong to, and sanctioned by the Catholic Church. Which is a lie.
They are merely trying to draw additional persons into sin.
People do not join evil organizations to save their souls.
CCC: ” 1759 “An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention” (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Dec. praec. 6). The end does not justify the means.”
If your Parish is listed on the heretical and schismatic site of New Ways Ministry – tell you Pastor and/or Bishop.
Ask them to have it removed immediately.
Supporting sodomy marriage (see their site) is not Catholic.
That is a good idea, but many here are dissenting so I don’t expect some of them to complain.
Just remember this list is condemned by the Vatican!
From New Ways, ministry condemned by the Vatican…..condemned….
Here is a cool list from St. Dominic in SF:
In honor of this feast, here’s my Top Ten List of Presentation Resolutions:
1. Go to Mass every Sunday. God is waiting to fill you with his blessings.
2. Say Thank You every day. It’s not that happy people are grateful; it’s grateful people who are happy.
3. Tell the truth. It’s easy to fib and we do it more often than we’d like to admit.
4. Read the Gospels in a year. Go to http://www.flocknote.com/gospel and they’ll send a short piece of the Gospel to your email every day. (I read the entire Catechism this way last year)
5. Stop Complaining. Nothing kills the grace of God’s presence like self-absorbed griping.
6. Go to Confession regularly. There’s nothing like being forgiven and it’s free!
7. Pray the Rosary. It’ll be the best 14 minutes or 1% of your day.
8. Don’t Gossip but Encourage. When you find yourself gossiping, resolve to seek out that person and encourage them.
9. Spend less, pray more. Use your prayer book more than your checkbook.
10. Get active. There are so many ways to get involved in our parish. Join an Intentional Disciples’ small community or get involved in one of our 40 ministries. There’s something for everyone!
A NOBLEMAN who had several daughters entered one of them in a lax monastery where the nuns were very proud and thought of nothing else but worldly pleasures. The nuns’ confessor, on the other hand, was a zealous priest and had a great love for the Holy Rosary. Wishing to guide this nun into a better way of life he ordered her to say the Rosary every day in honor of the Blessed Virgin while meditating on the life, passion and glory of Jesus Christ.
She joyously undertook to say the Rosary and little by little she grew to have a repugnance for the wayward habits of her sisters in religion. She developed a love for silence and prayer and this in spite of the fact that the others despised and ridiculed her and called her a fanatic. It was at this time that a holy priest, who was making the visitation of the convent, had a strange vision while he was making his meditation: he saw a nun in her room, rapt in prayer, kneeling in front of a Lady of breathless beauty who was surrounded by Angels. The latter had flaming spears with which they repelled a crowd of devils who wanted to come in. These evil spirits then fled to the other nuns’ rooms under the guise of vile animals.
By this vision the priest becarne aware of the lamentable state the monastery was in and he was so upset that he thought he might almost die of grief. He immediately sent for the young religious and exhorted her to persevere.
As he pondered on the value of the Rosary, he decided to try to reform the sisters by rneans of it. He bought a supply of beautiful rosaries and gave one to each nun, imploring them to say the Rosary every day, even going so far as to promise them that, if they would only say it faithfully, he would not try to force them to alter their lives. Wonderful and strange as it rnay seem the nuns agreed to this pact and were glad to be given the rosaries and promised to say them.
Little by little they began to give up their empty and worldly pursuits, letting silence and recollection corne into their lives. In less than a year they all asked that the monastery be reformed.
So the Holy Rosary worked more changes in their hearts than the priest could have worked by exhorting and commanding them.
The Secret of the Rosary St. Louis de Montfort
I sit fairly close to the front of the church on Sunday, so I see most of the people coming to communion. Although my parish is on the list, I could not tell if any of the other folks were gay or lesbians, married or just living together, divorced and remarried outside the church, single, children of gay or heterosexual parents, Catholic or not, etc. I know that I should have been praying, but I let curiosity take over. So, when people come to church just as they are, who am I to judge?
Bob One, the private mortal sins of others are none of your (or my) business.
Mortal sins become scandalous when they are supported or some other action of approval is public. These are usually public because the sinner makes them public by his/her public actions.
Check “SCANDAL” in the CCC.
In addition Canon 915 and Canon 1399 are related to publically known sins.
For example when elected officials vote in favor of mortal sins, it becomes a scandal. Their vote is a matter of public record.
What adults do behind closed doors is God’s business and and theirs. God gave everyone a free will, and those who wish to choose Hell for eternity may do so.
Andy, how can you say that the PRIVATE mortal sins are none of your or my business? Now, I am not suggesting that we all start scrutinizing our neighbors in order to uncover any hidden sins, but to say that they are only the business of God is not correct either. We are told that sin, hidden or exposed, hurts the body of Christ. We are therefore commanded to pray for the conversion of souls. In other words, the “private” mortal sins of others are our business as faithful followers of Christ.
Identifying oneself as a gay is a sin in today’s modern day terminology and what it stands for…..because the word gay indicates one is embracing those ideologies behind that agendaized word. Now if you are speaking of those who suffer with same sex attraction, homosexuals, but choose to live within God’s plan of being chaste….then yes they are not committing a sin. First they must confess their sins. But homosexuals can also sin with their eye’s and thoughts too especially more if they follow through and the fantasying etc, also with their advocating openness about “gay” lifestyles.
Many forget that actions speak louder than words too. One can say they are not practicing homosexuality but if they are on websites promoting “gay” rights and such, then they are committing others sins as described in the CCC, the bible etc. Today many here would love to excuse their sins as being normal. If you lose the understanding of what shame is, then you have won in desensitizing the sin itself and how would anyone ever fear the Lord and seek His love in a healthy way. To seek God’s love and forgiveness one must understand what sin is and what it does…but desensitizing sin takes away from what really matters the most, God’s saving love and graces.
Being gay is not a sin and identifying oneself as gay is not a sin.
Yes it is a sin to identify oneself as gay! Because it means you are what it stands for..an agenda against the natural law. That is a fact, you are both in grave error.
Please quote a Church source that says identifying oneself as gay is a sin. Gay does not mean you have an agenda against the natural law. It means you recognize that you are predominantly attracted to those of your own gender and/or not attracted to those of the opposite gender and it does not have to be sexual attraction.
Anony I don’t need to show you a quote from the church because its common sense…its your bad will does not get it especially since you are probably a person who is for “gay” rights. No you are dead wrong again on what “gay” stands for. You are lying to yourself and others. Homosexual is the definition that you are referring to not “gay”
Anony if you continue to be in this state of mind, you will continue to live in sin by desensitizing sin! Shame on you!
abeca, when you declare things to be sins that are not sins you are setting yourself up as a false magisterium. And you don’t have the authority to change the dictionary, either. Please read what the Church has written on homosexuality. You cannot find a source that says identifying oneself as gay is a sin because there isn’t one. It is not a sin. I am pretty old and as long as I have been aware of the term gay- which is close to a half century- it has meant a male homosexual person. Sometime in the more recent times it began to be applied to lesbians also. (usually be straight people.) I do not know the origin of this idea that you and several posters have that it indicates something more than that.
Abeca, don’t you think that if it would be a grave sin to identify as being gay that that might be written in the Catechism somewhere, or in some encyclical or something. If there is such a reference, I’ve never seen it, so I welcome you to try to produce it.
Moreover, it would be highly unusual for the Church to have web pages dedicated to work with people who are in grave sin. See, for example, https://www.oakdiocese.org/ministries/family-life/gay-and-lesbian-ministry . See that…gay-and-lesbian-ministry. You won’t find a similar web page for murderers, rapists, liars, slanderers, schismatics, heretics, or gossips.
Abeca, “gay” means “male homosexual”; “lesbian” means “female homosexual”. Always have, always will. That’s it. Simple, huh?
peter, the word “gay” has always meant merry and lighthearted. The word “lesbian” originally referred to an inhabitant of the island of Lesbos, in ancient Greece.
Aye, tis verily wanion we must thole the teen and ruth that linguistic definitions beforetime chaungen.
Be southeast and athwart. Sound the gardyloo nantheless. and froward parfay this new definition of “Gay”.
Tracy, once again you pretend that language is static. Alas it is not. For at least the last forty years, the word gay also means homosexual. Homosexual. In fact, for the last oh say twenty years, gay has predominantly connoted homosexual. Reclaim all you want, but the 99% know what the word means. Play dumb all you like. Gay, especially in THIS context MEANS homosexual.
And I DARE you to find a reference to lesbians in the last hundred years that refers to the inhabitants of a greek island that does not also refer to women who love women. I dare you!
True, true, Tracy. In the current context, however, your otherwise accurate definitions wouldn’t apply.
Anonymous writes, “Being gay is not a sin and identifying oneself as gay is not a sin.”
Abeca lovingly responds.. “Now if you are speaking of those who suffer with same sex attraction, homosexuals, but choose to live within God’s plan of being chaste….then yes they are not committing a sin.”
Beautiful post and response Abeca when informing new readers about confronting the many duplicitous, ambiguous and twisting of truths that we often read by anonymous posters on CCD. This particular anonymous poster is choosing to defend the homosexual activism that is taking place in order to desensitize others into the acceptance of homosexuality as simply being just another norm that needs to be welcomed and understood. Upon discovering the existence of anti-Catholic homosexual websites I also discovered that one of the most disliked quotes by homosexuals on homosexual websites is “Love the sinner hate the sin.” It is viciously mocked and rejected for a specific reason. Homosexual activists do not want others to hate that particular sin. Activists within the Church want the sin of committing homosexual acts to be welcomed and accepted too. Anonymous’s only goal seems to be the keeping of one’s vulnerable foot sinking while mired in the quicksand of false compassion and ambiguity and lies. Abeca, I have read over the years your many charitable posts where you have shown such great kindness and love in reaching out to those who initially identify themselves as gay..
continued from February 3, 2014 at 1:22 pm
Abeca, When homosexual activists such as YFC are asked if they themselves accept and strive to follow “all” of the the Church’s specific and authentic teachings on chastity as the Church teaches then YFC never responds. YFC could respond today if he is interested in clarifying and upholding the truth. YFC could easily respond, “Yes I am avoiding the near occasion of sin and I am striving to remain chaste like Mark F is striving to follow the Church’s teaching. Let us see if YFC will uphold Church teaching like Mark F, so the identifying clarifications will come through. Abeca, You are also right when conveying that an individual such as Mark F is not sinning when he identified himself as a homosexual who is striving to defend and uphold Church teaching in order to follow Christ. Mark F has never once been encouraged by YFC or anonymous for identifying himself as a homosexual who courageously seeks to clarify and uphold the Truth. Mark F has on more than one occasion asked YFC to please answer these questions in order to clarify for the benefit of others. The inconsistency in homosexual identities is obvious. Mark F. is clearly identifying himself as striving to be loyal to God and Church teaching while YFC’S identity is that of a homosexual activist undermining Church teaching. Anonymous’s selective silence is very telltale when identifying the goal of a humble and repentant individual vs. YFC who is clearly identifying himself as a homosexual activist who clearly rejects Church teaching on homosexual adoption, same sex unions and homosexual acts. The anonymous posters who come out of the selectively silent woodwork are not interested in clarifying Truth. They are interested in the enabling of chaos and confusion which are hallmark tools used by the father of lies. God bless you sweet Abeca for your kindness and your love of truth.
Why should he after the way you treated him when he did?
I was extremely disappointed when Mark F wrote that he was having difficulty reconciling being gay with being Catholic and asked for help. No one helped him. I live in extreme isolation but I do not feel that is a very healthy alternative for everyone.
Anonymous, you are right when you say that there is very little help for gay people who seek to be celibate. Even support groups like Courage meet in secret, leading gay Catholics who try to live celibate lives learn that the institutional Catholic church wants them to live in shame and hiding. You are right, isolation like this is not healthy for most people.
Catherine BINGO…you nailed it ….its exactly true what you said. Anonymous is blinded by some deeply rooted sins and that is why she is ignorant and refuses to admit but there is no excuse for ignorance anymore…not after all this dialogue, if Anony doesn’t want to learn, then its because of bad will on her part not ours!
For the record, I accept all of the teachings which have been passed down from the Apostolic Church. Catherine’s misinterpretations of my positions notwithstanding.
YFC you are lying to us and to yourself! What you just said is so untrue!
I simply stood up for the Church’s teaching. But of course, in Catherine’s mind, that makes someone gay.
You have NOT stood up for Church teaching. You ambiguously flatter vice and you undermined Father Guarnizo.
“Deceiving others. That is what the world calls a romance.”
― Oscar Wilde
“Reprimand and rebuke should be accepted as healing remedies for vice and as conducive to good health. From this it is clear that those who pretend to be tolerant because they wish to flatter—–those who thus fail to correct sinners—–actually cause them to suffer supreme loss and plot the destruction of that life which is their true life. ”
St. Basil the Great
Catherine, your fidelity to the Church is dependent on your personal opinions. You set yourself above the Church. You flatter mortal sin, like schism and undermine the successors to the Apostles. You do not keep the 10 Commandments. You chronically break the 1st and the 8th. You do not repent when you commit mortal sin. You just added more sin to your already heavy burden by bearing false witness against me.
There is your reprimand and your rebuke. I hope you can accept it as a healing remedy. I am sorry that I have overlooked your sins so often and caused you to suffer loss. Please forgive me.
With all due respect, Anonymous, how can it be considered bearing false witness when you are – by choice – Anonymous? As to fidelity to the Church, it would seem fidelity depend on a particular priests interpretation of being pastoral. God bless, you, Anonymous, but really seems to be the root of much confusion. Much like the Anonymous title – we’re all left with ‘shrug’ who knows behind the mystery curtain.
It must feel somewhat comfortable for you to hide behind an anonymous name and duplicitously undermine those who do believe and uphold Catholic Church teaching, especially on homosexual issues but God knows hearts and motives… Or else you wouldn’t do it. You are one of the same kind of voices who blamed, who criticized, and who called the victims of the sex abuse scandals troublemakers and gossipers for speaking up too. There was a reason for those scandals and before he resigned Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI spoke up about the corruption within. The root cause of these scandals has never been completely addressed or dealt with and this is why the world mirrors the corruption and turmoil within the Church. Cardinal Stafford wrote about this dissent, and you would include him as thinking he was above the Church when he was simply telling the reason and the truth about those who were rebelling against the Magisterium. You would like to either deny or sweep this lack of obedience and this corruption under the hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil rug. This was the same tactic used on the victims of abuse but their is a much greater abuse taking place and that is the abuse of spiritual neglect. Your goal is to undermine and silence anyone who has evidence and speaks up as to the reason behind this spiritual neglect. The fact that you want to hide while you selectively undermine faithful clergy makes your reprimand sound so disingenuous and all the more unbelievable and insincere. If only YOU loved the Church that much but your posting patterns speak quite differently. You also would have told Pope Gregory the Great that he thought that he was above the Church. Pope Gregory the Great said, ” It is better for scandals to arise then for the Truth to be suppressed.” Your selective fidelity and truth suppressing tactics did not work then and they are not working now.
“We’ve had enough of exhortations to be silent! Cry out with a hundred thousand tongues. I see that the world is rotten because of silence.” – St. Catherine of Siena
Because she knows it isn’t true. Just like you bear false witness against the Church. Fidelity does not depend on a particular priests interpretation of being pastoral. There is absolute Truth. It is passed down in the Catholic Church.
Anonymous writes: “…Because she (I’m assuming Anonymous means Catherine) knows it isn’t true. Just like you bear false witness against the Church. ”
Was Christ bearing false witness against the Pharisees when He called them out for their unbelieving infidelity to what Abraham believed? No. Our Lord was speaking Truth, Truth that He died proclaiming.
So whereas fidelity does NOT depend on a particular priests interpretation of what is pastoral, that is precisely what is being taught via the practices being allowed by those entrusted to positions of authority. You must see/know that. But call it scandal if you’d like. Christ was considered a scandal to the Jewish community as well.
oh great, now Catherine puts herself on the same level as Gregory the Great and Cardinal Stafford. It must be nice to think so highly of oneself.
YFC, are we on the same level with Christ because He expects us to pass on what He has given us in all its fullness?
Catherine, everything you said about me from “kanonymous…” on was a lie. Because you did it in a public forum it is bearing false witness. I really don’t know what your problem is…pride, anger… Obviously you have a lot of issues with the Catholic Church and with its teaching. The Lord told us this would be the reward of those who obey Him. Praying for you…
“oh great, now Catherine puts herself on the same level as Gregory the Great and Cardinal Stafford. It must be nice to think so highly of oneself”
YFC, It would be nice to see you think more highly of yourself by not imprisoning yourself and another person in slave-like captivity by first worshipping the false god of homosexuality. …”Lord help me to be pure, but not yet” ..St Augustine
It would also be good to see you quote the beautiful and faithful examples of good obedient role models such as Pope Gregory the Great or Cardinal Stafford instead of you promoting a spiritually deadly agenda of same sex marriage and homosexual adoptions. This is what happens when homosexual activists reject Revealed Truths and place themselves on a level in thinking that they are above God and wiser than God.
“God had one son on earth without sin, but never one without suffering.”
“If you believe what you like in the gospels and reject what you don’t like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.” …..St. Augustine
Catherine, I loved your quotes from St. Augustine. May I suggest that you review the gospel? I don’t mean that in a derogatory way. It is something we all need to do. Often times we are offending God without realizing it. God is Truth. My suggestion is to be scrupulous in Truth at all times and never to attack another person. Ideas such as same sex marriage need to be rebutted. The ideology of the gay lobby in the Church needs to be resisted and overcome. God will give you the grace to do this if you just ask Him who is Eternal Truth for the grace to always speak only that which is true and only that which is holy. May our Lady cover you with her mantel and bring you to purity in the Sacred Heart.
“This Church is Holy, the One Church, the True Church, the Catholic Church, fighting as she does against all heresies. She can fight, but she cannot be beaten. All heresies are expelled from her, like the useless loppings pruned from a vine. She remains fixed in her root, in her vine, in her love. The gates of hell shall not conquer her.”
Sermon to Catechumens, on the Creed, 6,14, 395 A.D.
Anonymous writes, “I really don’t know what your problem is…pride, anger…”
That is because you have selective memory when it comes to consistently upholding your baptismal promise to reject Satan and all of his empty promises. Your posts often reflect the promise of strategic ambiguity and compromise. Ambiguity by strategic design is one of greatest methods to use because it causes error and confusion. The Catholic Church is the spotless bride of Christ and the teachings are clear. You can also be sure that when Our Lady of Fatima warned the world about Russia spreading it’s errors or when Our Lady of Akita warned her beloved Cardinals and Bishops about churches being sacked or about making compromises that are offending God that she was not doing this out of pride. Strategic ambiguity is an enemy of Truth.
AM: Through Christ we are all made sons of God. Does that put us on the same level as Christ?
You again are falsely accusing me. I have not posted error or confusion. I do not post ambiguously. I do not compromise. This must be your idea of a joke or a way to amuse yourself. I forgive you.
There was much said by Our Lady of La Salette that would back up what you are saying, Catherine. But the Anonymous, much like those who promote institutionalized ambiguity and the dismissal of Church history and Tradition, would rather pass on these uncomfortable issues.
They seem to forget that by stating that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church indicates a fierce battle. And what is more fierce? The enemy outside the castle walls? Or the enemy within the walls skulking room to room to eviscerate all that he may find.
But in the end Our Lady will triumph. I pray God to witness Her glorious conquest.
AM: Through Christ we are all made sons of God. Does that put us on the same level as Christ?
You make an excellent point, YFC. We are sons of God and therefore called to be perfect even as Our Heavenly Father is perfect. The grace to do so comes from Him. So speaking the Truth that one has received is not putting oneself, “On the level of Gregory the Great or Cardinal Stafford,” as you accused Catherine of doing.
Why? Because the only ‘level’ achieved by Gregory the Great and/or Cardinal Stafford was that of corresponding to the transmission of Truth by way of grace.
That said, I would imagine that Pope St. Gregory would take issue with being termed ‘great’ by the faithful. We put too much emphasis on the person and their supposed individual dignity instead of looking to each soul as the vehicle for God to speak and act. In that sense, if we yield to the perfect transmission of Truth in the example of Christ, He will work wonders with us….. no matter how lowly we may be.
Catherine, I was considering giving up the anonymous default and coming up with something to type in the name blank. Caving under pressure, I guess. This morning I opened up a book on the Saints that I hadn’t looked at for a decade because I had found another that I preferred. But today, I was called to look up something in it. Today’s entry includes that for Bl. Maria Catherine Kasper. It said that her motto was from The Imitation of Christ. It was “Desire to be unknown and to be counted as nothing.” It also had a quote from her which said “God’s Holy Will must and shall happen in me, through me and for me.” Remaining anonymous.
NOT SO ANONY…its you! You are lying and this where our priests need to be more clear so people like you won’t get away with misleading more people…but I think that many priests are unaware of the facts as well….I can tell by a few comments from a priest here that have me concerned!
Abeca writes: “…but I think that many priests are unaware of the facts as well….I can tell by a few comments from a priest here that have me concerned!”
Thank goodness! We are looking to a root of the problem. But where, pray, do you think these misguided priests learned such bad doctrine? Seminary? Other priests? By the prayerful pondering and ‘spiritual experience’ of their flock? Or perhaps the acceptance of their own vices? To include indifferentism?
Bad doctrine rolls downhill. That is sin has always been with us, but the compromising with it comes from those in the position of authority. Because it is the authority that deigns whether to teach or not to teach, to corrupt or to not corrupt.
That’s where the whole issue of false obedience comes to play. Should a seminarian believe and follow the formation of those Bishops who teach ‘acceptance’ ‘the road of least resistance’? Some say, yes, do not question but hope and pray. And they follow. And much heartache comes in the wake….. much of what we see on this thread.
Abeca, it is not OK to falsely accuse someone because you don’t like the facts. You made an error. I corrected your error. I don’t accuse you falsely. I assume it was an honest mistake. Maybe you read or heard that in a non-Catholic discussion. Maybe you misunderstood something that you heard or read. It is not common sense. It is wrong. The Catholic Church is infallible on matters of faith and morals.
Re: Anonymous and the ‘pious’ sophistry of remaining nameless.
In the name of Christ crucified, depart from hence, Anonymous, for thou art Legion.
What an evil thing to say. In the Holy Name of Jesus, return to His Church.
Tonight my 12 year old was watching Turner Classic channel and they were playing the movie “The Bells of ST. Mary’s” with Bing Cosby. Wow what a beautiful movie. We can honor God so much more with being chaste and innocent like His little children. The adults have complicated things even more with their sinfulness today. I just rather pray and then watch a good movie as this kind. It seems like those were the good ole days…..those folks had it good.
Abeca, you have happened upon the conundrum. What you are believing to be the ‘good old days’ has been relegated to the trash bin. Why? Because those who hold to Sacred Tradition are lambasted as having an incomplete understanding. To paraphrase Anonymous’s quote from Ecclesia Dei from the ‘Gays have been taught self hate thread’:
“…Incomplete, because it does not take sufficiently into account the living character of Tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught, “comes from the apostles and progresses in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into the realities and words that are being passed on. This comes about in various ways. It comes through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts. It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which they experience. And it comes from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth”
So when the Church is ‘officially’ teaching that the Truth is discerned by the ponderings of believers and their intimate sense of ‘spiritual realities’ expect trouble. Why? Because Catholics are sinners, just like we’ve always been. Spirits need discernment and from those with a well formed conscience. But consciences have been left in the dark and this results in folks like YFC claiming the truth of the ‘intimate sense of ‘their’ spiritual reality.
As for adults complicating things with their sinfulness, they have ALWAYS done as much, Abeca. It was only when the Church treated Her children as children to be taught – instead of employing the modern philosophy of ‘learning from the children’ and what they want that we had this supposed ‘good old days.’
God bless you and thank you for your faithfulness!
Ann why do you complicate things so much….yes I’m sure I can say the same from those who are upholding traditional values.
What you have here are people who are not hiding nor feel shame for their sinfulness…we can see it through their posts Ann, you mention YFC and Anony…we can discern and they at least are honest about what they think. But not honest enough to reflect and repent. Its pride, pride has infected all societies from the beginning of mankind. Has it not?
Ann But I mention the good ole days because their concerns where far less than what we are having to deal with today, but before those “good ole” times as in the time that movie was created and priests were once respected, there were also the times when Luther broke up with the church. There were many problems even then with heresies and more. Luther took sections off the bible and committed a grave sin. But the Lutherans still think they are the ones who saved the church. But at the death bed of Luther, I was told that he regretted what he did. Now I’m sure those old days were not ones I wanted to live in but I’m sure like the era of when that movie was created, we didn’t have Hollywood over powering us just yet and the “gay” movement hadn’t started.
“Gay” is no longer a positive word, for those that still want to hold up its exterminated meaning but it’s now a threat agendaized word. A threat to our society and when I said those good ole days…it was because we were still innocent and gay meant happy but not anymore in today’s modern times especially through this thread. We can’t be ignorant. But why am I preaching at you Ann? Why are you preaching at me? We are preaching to the choir as they say. We know this and in some way, in your own way because its obvious that you use your logic and God’s graces have infected you because your heart is holding on.
Jesus is my love, I love Him. Fear The Lord everyone!
God bless you, Abeca, I am not preaching at you but pointing out that the ‘gay’ issue is NOT NEW. And I am not confusing things. I am rather pointing out that the Church Herself (or rather those entrusted to care for Her) in allowing the ambiguous Ecclesia Dei texts that I quoted above – the same that have been used against me – are the very texts used by YFC and Anonymous to push their agenda.
The fact that you cannot see and/or accept that is your issue, Abeca. So please seek clarity and do not be afraid of where you find the source of confusion. Otherwise your questioning why, why, why is pointless as there is an answer. You just do not like to hear the answer. IOW: If the father says no, but the mother says yes, what will the children do? That is the answer to your WHY.
That said, comments like ‘God graces have infected you,’ are insulting. I am filled with God’s grace, Abeca, in as much as I am cleaving to His Truth and receiving His Sacraments. That is what you fail to recognize or understand. I’m sorry if that confuses you, but it is something you must reconcile for yourself.
Abeca cont: If you want to look at the source of conflict – which there shouldn’t be between us – look to your comments to me. Look to the logic you employ, Abeca. And the dismissal you make of history that you say you do not even understand.
That said, do not confuse the Society with the actions of Martin Luther. It is not the same. And if you do not understand that, you owe yourself and your fellow Catholics, especially since you desire to be an apologist, you should take the time to learn the issues.
I really can’t figure out why New Ways Ministry feels the need to print this list anyway. After all, I would think that being friendly to merry and lighthearted people comes pretty naturally for most people, including those who attend the typical parish. On the other hand, since many people do often find it difficult to relate to strange or eccentric people, who deviate from expected norms, I would imagine that finding such a parish could be somewhat more difficult. That being said, however, I personally can’t recall attending a single parish so far, where there were not at least a few queer people who appeared to be quite content as parishioners.
I think this whole issue of where will “I feel welcome” should not be such a widespread issue. Are the majority of people really that sensitive? Why doesn’t New Ways Ministry rather post the parishes where you are most likely to find the truth. Isn’t this one of the main reasons Jesus came to Earth? Jesus told his disciples, “I am the way the truth and the life….”. I don’t recall ever reading where Jesus told his disciples, “I am the friendly one…….”!
NEW WAYS MINISTRY wants more people to join them in sin. (Supporting sodomy marriage, etc.)
They are trying to draw ignorant Catholics into their fold. They are deceitful.
And this website has given them free advertising by posting the churches and their headlines too……
The Diocese of San Jose gave free advertising and paid for Fr. Curran promoting the ‘Catholic gays have always been taught self-hate,’ nonsense, too. It’s everywhere, Abeca. That is why it needs to be called out and resisted no matter who promotes it.
Ann you say this because it is not your SSPX church that is being magnified…if it was…I know you’ll judge with harsh words to defend it…
This website could of reported that this list was condemned but it did not have to list the churches because I’m sure a few may feel insulted that someone decided to make up such list and slander the good name of a parish! Don’t you get that? I see that we are not like minded here Ann…I bet you will follow me now….I am now on your watchful eye. I look forward to the challenge…
Abeca – WAKE UP! I mean this in the most loving terms. But, God love you, IT IS MY CHURCH that is being magnified. That is what I have been trying to tell you. Please get over the completely false notion that the SSPX is some parallel Church. NO! It is part of the Church…. a fighting part that wants very much to help, but is often put off by holding to the very fullness of truth that is so despised. The fullness that would clarify the mincing of words and open-door phrases that have led to the filth you are debating right here on CCD.
The reality is, however, that there are those INSIDE the Church, OUR CHURCH, in positions of authority – inside the Vatican and out – that allow these things to occur. The Bishop’s know what they should do. They know what is required by Church doctrine, but often they make what they term ‘pastoral’ decisions to ‘reach out’ as it is often termed.
The Vatican allows them to do so – permissive will, let’s call it. So yes indeed I use harsh words to defend Holy Mother Church – I use harsh words against those in positions of power who have allowed the ROT to rule for far too long. To the detriment of souls and the frustration and fallout of faithful Catholics who want nothing more than to honor and obey their loving Mother and do as God proscribes.
Abeca, how do you know that the GOOD name of a parish was smeared by this list? I’m am in agreement with Ann on this one. It is amazing how many GOOD and trusting Catholics there are who still do not know what is occurring right under their noses.
I for one am glad that CCD post’s these kinds of articles. CCD is a news organization. And like it or not, not all of the news out there is rosy nor uplifting. There are plenty of worthwhile Catholic websites devoted solely to Catholic teaching and spirituality. I think as mature Catholics, and as the Church Militant, we benefit from both types of websites.
Yes Lemon Grove: St. John of the Cross. That was the parish my children were baptized. People there are not “gay” friendly as this wishes people to assume. I may not like the current pastor there but many of the parishioners that I knew, still attend there and they are good decent Catholics.
God bless you for the Rosary prayed, Abeca. I’m glad you sought guidance from your priest and that you are protected and happy where you are. That is what I’ve always said if you care to actually read.
Please accept my apology for any angst I may have caused you. And I forgive you as well. That said, please do not interact further with me on CCD. I need to avoid the occasion and I think you do as well.
God bless :)
Abeca, so to affirm you, I was told things in prayer that sound like what you were told by your priest. Things later confirmed by things that were posted. You seem to have good guidance.
Yes, Anonymous, if one notes that there is a bear present, one does well not to poke it. Especially when that bear lays sleeping in one’s own conscience. That is called common sense – not giving way to the belief that one is receiving locutions.
Dear All…. I worry sometimes that when discussing gay issues in the Church, civility goes out the window. It seems that’s nothing compared to the heat when it comes to this SSPX y thing. None of us are going to convince anyone if we just yell, or insult them. I also don’t think it’s a good idea from a Christian way to condem someone who we know only from an internet forum.
Aside from SSPX being in schisim etc. Ann.. you argue that the Church today is .. for lack of a better term “Not OK.” You’ve argued
against all of Vatican 2 but I’d like to ask you “when was the Church OK?” Was it on the right track in the 1950’s before V2? I know that Pius XII excommunicated a Fr. Feeney (sp?) for saying that Jews coulden’t go to heaven. Was Pius on the wrong track? Was the Church authentic on the 19th century. I read that the SSPX argued against the French Revolution. Was the Church magisterium wrong ever since then? These questions will really help me understand the whole issue
Also.. I liked the phrase “She devil in a skirt.” We have deal with one facility manager who gives my guys a hard time. I think next time he acts up I’m going to tell him “Len, if you don’t want me to turn into a she devil in a skirt, you’ll stop harassing Jose.”
Anyway .. let’s all read the CCD comments policy and try to follow it.
God bless you for your humor, C&H. And if the skirted she-devil line works to get Len from harassing poor Joe, use it with my blessing. Sorry, Len. But I’d love to be a truffle on the table to see how it goes.
As to the rest, I will not be able to convince you of anything regarding the SSPX or tradition or what my issues are with Church hierarchy (much based on my own 12 year Catholic school education and upbringing). There are too many issues to canvas and, frankly, that’s not my job. I can only share my views and what I have learned. I’m also not of the mind that the SSPX is the only means to SAVE THE WORLD and ACHIEVE WORLD PEACE. They’re priestly fraternity seeking the Truth, filled with flawed people who make mistakes, too, but following Catholic tradition none the less. That’s the chief reason I do not like to see them tossed under the bus by others – especially those saying they love Tradition.
If you’d like to understand the Societies issues, C&H – again only for understanding’s sake – you should visit the SSPX website. You might be confirmed in dislike, you might not, you might be neutral, doesn’t matter. But at least you’d get the straight dope about what ‘they’ think they are without all the fear flotsam tossing around the salty waves of CCD.
That said, the SSPX isn’t in schism. Urban myth. There’s a great talk on Mic’d Up between Chris Ferrara and Michael Voris on youtube as well. Both of these men attend diocesan approved masses, but they discuss the issues I have rather well.
God bless and thanks for the chat!
That said, the YFCs and Anonymous of this world are not acting solely on their own authority. They are being given permission or at least a pass from those in a spiritual position that outweighs you or I. That is precisely what fuels them. Personal pride alone would be nothing, but pride combined with misguided use of authority is very potent. And damaging.
As for the challenge, you need to know who your enemies are, Abeca. If you think it is me, think again. For it is not my Holy Mother Church I fight, and not you, but rather those who would cover her in filth and deception. And those who knew better, know better, and yet continue to obfuscate and doublespeak much like what happened with the Pedophile scandal.
Anonymous has been using you, Abeca. Tuning into your fears of supporting schism to detract from what I say against the rampant push to baptize sodomy. Anonymous has been doing the same thing with Tracy. Breaking apart with sophistry and falsehood the very fullness of Truth that they despise. That is why reading the documents and understanding the language that came out of VII is critical. It is not being difficult as it holds the key to what you’re looking for.
God bless and keep up the good fight!
You are trying to confuse Abeca Christian. And for what? There are plenty of people who post here who attend SSPX, traditionalist, independent and even sedevacantist parishes. None of them are trying to mess with people like you are. The way you treated Abeca is very wrong. You turned on her for simply defending her Church. A push to baptize sodomy? What would that even mean? You are trying to scare Abeca. And why? Why do you need her to condone your behavior? Why suck her into your downward spiral? Leave her alone.
God bless you, Anonymous, for calling out confusion amidst anonymity.
Anonymous, are you trying to SHAME Ann into silence by making her look like a BULLY while making Abeca appear to be the HELPLESS VICTIM? Your Leftist Saul Alinsky “Rules for Radicals” tactics are old and boring.
Thank you, Tracy. And God bless!
Your welcome Ann. It is clear to me that you, Abeca and I have oodles more in common with one another than either of us has with Anonymous #____ despite any differences of opinion we might hold among ourselves.
Well, Tracy, I would agree with you there. Abeca, however, will likely not as she has now taken the ‘Anonymous’ viewpoint that I’m a skirted she-devil intent on gathering slanderous information to bring schism – like it doesn’t already exist in the minds and hearts of far too many. (That ‘gays have been taught self hate thread is a real kicker.)
Mentally exhausting is the word. And illogical. But I’m glad to have reality out in the open. It’s easier not to get blindsided that way.
No Tracy Anony is not trying to shame Ann into silence not at all. How could there be shame where there is none. And no she is not making me look like a victim either….Jesus is the real victim here….continues to be and His church will suffer for it too. Anony thank you and God bless you. You saw something true and these ladies are now trying to “lighten it up”….its more serious than they know….I recognize spiritual war all too well. God have mercy.
Tracy you have your opinion and that is fine…I agree to disagree with you. Good day. : ) and no negative tone to this either….
Its interesting how Tracy came up with that response to Anony. Its interesting? So you take it lightly huh, that Ann would not be in full communion with Rome?
Just because you have prejudges against Anony does not mean that she always discerns wrongly…in this case, she is not far from the truth…she may be closer than those who say they are faithful and who defend the faith.
I don’t take it lightly when people refuse to re-unite themselves with Rome. I have respect for many here who may not be but Ann is different because she actually caused much more scandal. I consider her long comments against my faith a threat and scandal towards the real mission of our church. Mr Fisher has never disrespected me like that, he and I have mutual respect for one another that we never went at it, he has never done what Ann did here, he did not scandalize souls to question the authenticity of the Magesterium,. He may be outspoken to the troubles we have and he never has brought division or tried to discrediting the good news I try to share…Ann has made an enemy of herself. I don’t create enemies, people do that on their own. Even RR who use to post here, she and I have mutual respect for one another. A good soul she is, she is Traditional and truly charitable, I respect her. People more traditional than I here, have been respectful of me and I of them and have defended them….but no Ann went too far….This showed her pride is so deep. So Tracy if you want to defend her bad behavior here…fine. She has caused more division here and is not working towards the better good in Christ.
A church divided and especially shown in public does not help the mission of the church.
I went too far in your estimation, Abeca, because I called out what you were saying against me and against the Society. Nobody was attacking your faith, Abeca. Reread what you wrote and take accountability for what you say and instigate.
Mr. Fisher may not ‘go at you’, as you term it, but then you do not go after him. If you know his position, however, you should be consistent and admonish him to return to the Church for the love of his soul. And the love of the Church you apparently believe we do not love. Instead, you refer to his apologetic material…. because he is not confrontational with YOU. It has nothing to do with the Church.
It is the personal back and forth that has you angered, Abeca, and changing your supposedly neutral SSPX stance that you quoted just yesterday. But that is okay, too.
I prefer you to be open and honest. You write that “A church divided and especially shown in public does not help the mission of the Church” is precisely what I’m pointing out to you, Abeca. Pretending union will not make it so. And pretending that those in authority are either unknowing or somehow inept is not the way to do it.
And Abeca, back off Tracy. She’s being a realist with regard to the issue at hand.
That said, while the people at St. John of the Cross in Lemon Grove may be great – and I’m sure they are – you admit yourself that you don’t care for the Pastor. Why is that? (This is a rhetorical question as I don’t care to know, but it illustrates the reason why these curious lists and such come about.)
Could it be that he isn’t Orthodox enough? I don’t know, Abeca. But what Tracy was pointing out is that there are reasons behind why a certain parish might be on the above mentioned list. And there are Pastors, much as we might not like it, who tacitly give approval to those whom you would admonish here for their homosexual lifestyles.
That is why you could be getting such a push back when you admonish folks like YFC. Surely, he is getting advice and/or spiritual support from some priest. How else could he be an ecumenical minister?
Do you see what I’m saying here? And do you realize that it is not undue gathering of scandalous information, but rather valuable information if one is to combat the problem?
I feel sorry for Ann for her ill assumptions, her ability to fill her mind with so much ill assumptions, false hood and for bearing false witness against me. Her implying of things. Wow. I will no longer dialogue with you. I don’t care if you want to taint my character now… I’m sad for you. Those who are really faithful will see right through her…she even implied that I need to back off Tracy as implying that I was all over her? Wow…when will she stop before she explodes. She even felt the need to give me guidance in regards to Mr. Fisher….wow….complicating things where there is none? I hope Mr. Fisher doesn’t fall trap to her ways. But who knows….the devil plays good games to bring division.
Ann is the type of gal that thinks like this: For example, I would tell her that I was a gourmet cook, she would be the one to tell people that I said I was a chef and that I was lying. I would then correct her and say no I said I was a gourmet cook but I never said I was a chef…then she would accuse me of lacking humility because I didn’t give credit to the chef because the chef is the one who invented gourmet food, she would be the type of person that would keep insisting that I said I was a chef still. Just an example. There is a difference. I love cooking and am a gourmet cook but have not a degree in it. That is what she is doing here. She is very self righteous, I prefer not to dialogue with her any longer, in fact I will ignore anymore of her comments.
I’m grateful to have a great friendship with a good holy and solid priest, whom I asked his guidance about this disturbing thread with Ann….Praise God he saw what I was concerned. I will not disclose what guidance I was given but I am grateful to God that He is a great judge and I am in His arms, protected. Ann brings in a spiritual battle due to her disobedience to be in full communion. That is all I have to say, I will not defend my conversation with this woman any longer or try anymore because she will just add more ugliness from her venomous anger. I did say a rosary for her last night and will continue as I do for everyone here. If I comment more it will only lead her to combat any good I try to do, so to help her not fall into more temptation to sin and cause more division, I have to give her time to cool off and continue to pray for her. Good bye…..I leave you all. Jmj
Abeca, I reacted to Anonymous #__ , (who by the way I take to be a male), because I observed him using the ancient tactics of the devil. Yes, there is strong disagreement between you and Ann. My instincts, however, tell me that the two of you have more in common with each other than either of you will ever have with Anonymous. (of course, because he is anonymous we will never really know, now will we!) Where the devil sees division he is quick to anonymously stir up the flames of ever greater division.
“Stay sober and alert. Your opponent the devil is prowling like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, solid in your faith.” 1 Peter 5: 8-9a
abeca brings up a good point. Everything that you give energy and time to gains strength and grows. The reason that there is so much dissidence and error in the Church is because so many people keep building places for it in their souls. If you hear any error, correct it then go on. These things are here on CCD because someone is thinking about error and giving it wings to fly on. Instead of giving time and space to what is wrong, why not give your time to what is holy and decent and sacred? Instead of trying to squash the weeds, why not water the wheat?
Here is a story of a Catholic who came back to the Church. For those who pray for these things:
For all those who choose to post under the empty name, “Anonymous,” it would excellent to remember that you are not anonymous to God.
If you are not ashamed of who you are/what you are posting/whom you are attacking/what you are promoting, why are you hiding under the cloak of “Anonymity?” This is not AA, nor is it the Klu Klux Klan, and there is no reason to hide from us all if what you share would be approved of by God.
May I ask all of you who post under “names” (handles) that are also designed to hide your faces, “Why are you doing this?” “What benefit does it derive you?” “From whom are you hiding?”
If your posts are worthy of your personal and family names, why not use them? God already knows who you are. May I ask, “From whom are you hiding? Us?”
If you are hiding from us, are your posts worth reading? If your words are not worthy of your owning them, why should we read them?
“If you are not ashamed of who you are/what you are posting/whom you are “attacking/what you are promoting, why are you hiding under the cloak of “Anonymity?”
Thank you for that very wise, logical and excellent post! You recognize that anonymous’s reasons for hiding have absolutely nothing to do with interior locutions. This has much more to do with attempting to silence the exterior profusions of keyboard postings of Truths and Facts that are being revealed here on California Catholic Daily. Anonymous wants to silence the Truth. This is why we are so extremely grateful to CCD for providing this forum as nothing can thwart His Will.
Proverbs 12 -20 Douay – Rheims
12] The desire of the wicked is the fortification of evil men: but the root of the just shall prosper.  For the sins of the lips ruin draweth nigh to the evil man: but the just shall escape out of distress.  By the fruit of his own mouth shall a man be filled with good things, and according to the works of his hands it shall be repaid him.  The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that is wise hearkeneth unto counsels.  A fool immediately sheweth his anger: but he that dissembleth injuries is wise.  He that speaketh that which he knoweth, sheweth forth justice: but he that lieth, is a deceitful witness.  There is that promiseth, and is pricked as it were with a sword of conscience: but the tongue of the wise is health.  The lip of truth shall be steadfast for ever: but he that is a hasty witness, frameth a lying tongue.  Deceit is in the heart of them that think evil things: but joy followeth them that take counsels of peace.”
So your name is Catherine? You post under your real name? Didn’t think so. I would be so happy if Truth and Facts were posted more often on CCD. I do not want to silence the Truth. I want the Truth to be told. Nothing can thwart the Holy Will of God. I like you quote from Proverbs and I wish you seriously meditate (mental prayer- not TM) on verse 20. If you do not know how to meditate there is a great little catechism on it available from TAN books.
Meditation — the first part of mental prayer, the part which is dedicated to the consideration of a mystery or truth. The word is often used as a synonym for the whole exercise of mental prayer, but is best limited to this one aspect. Two synonyms for meditation in the sense we are using it are “consideration,” and “reflection.”
As I posted above to Catherine, I feel I have been confirmed by the Lord in using the anonymous default. I am truly sorry that it irritates so many people. Of course no one is anonymous to God. Feel free to only read the posts you want to read. I am sure that what the Lord wants accomplished will be done as nothing can thwart His Will.
Anonymous says that he FEELS he has been CONFIRMED by the Lord in using the anonymous default!
Sounds like a rant from Pastor Anonymous in the Church of Pride :(
Excellent Tracy! You are right. That prideful rant also sounds like an attempt of olly olly oxen free free free!
Olly olly oxen free fee free is a phrase used in children’s games, which is generally used to indicate that these children pretend they are safe and can’t be seen. In this case of “anonymous” it is a spiritually deadly game where people who are hiding while strategically undermining faithful priests in a devilish game of hide and seek. They fantasize that they can’t really be seen or recognized for the spiritually deadly game that they are playing. Then they attempt to safely come out into the open when it is strategic time for them to try and appear faithful and receiving interior locutions. We know the name and author of that behavior, like Ann Malley earlier stated…. The name is legion.
Do you even know what an interior locution is?
This is evil beyond any I have ever seen. It is a sin more grave than sodomy.
I don’t understand your issue here. For one thing, it’s not like you are distinguishable from thousands of other Catherines (or Tracys).
Is it a distinction between being identifiable yet anonymous, or being truly identifiable? Who really cares?
Anonymous is a little annoying in that he has chosen a default name, and thus can be presumed to be multiple posters, but who really needs to have religious affiliation or personal opinion in a public forum collected easily in aggregate form with every other minute detail of life?
The voice is distinct.
I pray for you to be given the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and with it a better discernment of spirits.
Oh, that’s a good one, “confirmed by the Lord in using the anonymous default.” I wonder why God allowed human beings to identify themselves by name, and why He allowed His Son to have a name.
I’m glad you see yourself as so special as to be confirmed by God to be above the practice of Jesus Christ and all the rest of us commoners in allowing ourselves to be named. This is the age of narcissism, and to be special is not quite as special as it used to be, so it must feel very special indeed to be above identifying yourself by name.
I wonder if part of being anonymous, that is, without identity, is imagining oneself to be more free than the named commoners to express oneself in ways that would shame you or cause you to feel ridiculous if one were to know who you actually are. You can acquire imaginary self-presentations when you think you are anonymous, and you can say outrageous things when you imagine there are no consequences.
If there are to be no consequences of that which you say, then there is no import, and thus no impact. Of course I can read whatever I choose to read and ignore whatever I choose to ignore, and I appreciate your granting me that privilege, but actually, hoping not to hurt your feelings, I must acknowledge that God already gave me that right, but thanks for attempting to convince me you are re-granting it, Anonymous.
What is prayer to you, then? Is it not a dialogue with God? Does He not admonish you? affirm you? invite you? instruct you? I am nobody special. I am not ashamed of the Catholic Faith.
May Almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life. May the Almighty and Merciful Lord grant us pardon, absolution and remission of all our sins. Amen.
Something to think about:
There’s nothing wrong with being gay. In my opinion if a homosexual couple is in love and are committed, there is no sin in sexual activity. However if a gay person is having multiple sex partners just for pleasure and not out of love that is a sin. We need more LGBT Friendly Churches!
Jasmine your opinion does not save souls. You are putting yourself above God and His natural law. You just committed a grave sin by misleading others to your opinion, a disservice to those sinners whom suffer with same sex attraction! May God open your eye’s to His truths and ways before its too late.
FYI we hold an LGBT friendly Old Catholic Mass each Sunday at 1:30pm at Holywood Lurheran Church at 1733 N New Hampshire. Our American Catholic Church operates out of HLC. Fr Tim
Your “Old” Catholic Church and “American” Catholic Church are schismatic.
For a religion that is supposed to be about love and acceptance, there sure are a lot of mentions of word “hate” in the comments.