The following comes from a Sept. 30 column by George Weigel on National Review Online.
Father Thomas Reese, S.J., former editor of the Jesuit biweekly America, has made a curious confession: He’s happy again. Or so he told the Washington Post’s Sally Quinn, who reported Father Reese’s good cheer in her September 27 “On Faith” column. Father Reese is happy, and Sally Quinn is happy for Father Reese, because, as Tom told Sally, “I haven’t been this hopeful about the Church in decades. . . . It’s fun to be Catholic again.”
I’m happy that Father Reese, an old acquaintance and occasional sparring partner, is happy. And I’m glad that Father Reese is having fun again. I just wonder what the heck he’s been looking at in the Catholic Church in the United States, such that he’s spent “decades” being unhappy.
In the decades of Father Reese’s unhappiness, millions of adult men and women have been baptized as adults or entered into full communion with the Catholic Church, freely professing “all that the Holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and professes to be revealed by God.” As Father Reese told Sally Quinn, “we need to take the best thinking of our generations and explain Christianity to our generation.” That seems to have been going on, in no small measure; yet Father Reese seems to have missed it.
In the decades of Father Reese’s unhappiness, new forms of evangelically robust campus ministry have developed across the United States. Aggie Catholics at Texas A&M produce priestly and religious vocations and great Catholic marriages by the bushel. Ragin’ Cajun Catholics at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette and Cornhusker Catholics at the University of Nebraska run vibrant Bible-study and Theology of the Body programs that draw hundreds of their fellow students into serious reflection on the Word, and on what the Word asks of us today. Young missionaries sponsored by FOCUS (the Fellowship of Catholic University Students) devote their immediate post-collegiate lives to peer evangelization, and do so on campuses from USC to the Naval Academy and Harvard, and at dozens of institutions of higher education in between. Surely a source of happiness, that; surely a reason to be “hopeful about the Church.” But not, it seems, in the Catholic world as seen by the previously disgruntled Father Reese.
In the decades of Father Reese’s unhappiness, Catholic-studies programs have blossomed on Catholic campuses across the country, led by the trend-setting program at the University of St. Thomas in St. Paul, Minn.; those programs have brought a new depth of serious Catholic intellectual life to the humanities, the arts, professional training, and even the sciences at the schools where they have flourished (which do not, alas, include Father Reese’s most recent base, Georgetown). In those same decades, the Academy of Catholic Theology has been formed to challenge the terminal trendiness and political correctness of the Catholic Theological Society of America, and to respond to the growing number of younger Catholic scholars who have found in the pontificates of John Paul II and Benedict XVI rich veins of intellectual material to mine, debate, and refine — unlike, it would seem, the unhappy Father Reese.
In the decades of Father Reese’s unhappiness, the Catholic Church in the United States has produced the most compelling televisual instrument of the New Evangelization available in the world: Father Robert Barron’s Catholicism series, which appeared on many PBS affiliates and is now a staple of parish and campus adult-education programs. But that remarkable accomplishment, it seems, did not help lift Father Reese out of the slough of ecclesiastical despond.
During the decades of Father Reese’s unhappiness, the Dominican Sisters of St. Cecilia Congregation in Nashville built a new novitiate to house aspirants to their growing community of religious sisters; the Pontifical North American College, the U.S. Church’s seminary in Rome, was reformed and is now full-up, with more students than at any time since the mid 1960s; Mt. St. Mary’s Seminary in Emmitsburg, Md., has been full; Mundelein Seminary in Chicago is now growing, thanks to the leadership of the aforementioned Father Barron, and is pioneering new models of training in evangelization and apologetics; the Conference of Major Superiors of Women Religious has been formed to help support the work of the orders of religious sisters that are actually attracting young women (which are not the “Nuns on the Bus” orders). This produces “decades” of unhappiness?…
To read entire story, click here.
All of my “progressive” Catholic friends are happy again. Especially those who despised Benedict XVI are spasmodic about Pope Francis. They obviously see something I don’t. I am happy for them, but I still wonder what it was they found so depressing. Personally, I always knew where our former pope stood on every issue; I cannot say that today. I am still groping my way through the unceasing stream of contradictory statements and quotes emanating from various secular publications on Pope Francis’ “issue du jour”. I don’t quite know what to make of the pope’s most recent remark that he considered our attempts to convert others as “solemn nonsense”. If words still have meaning, such a statement is absurd on the face of it. The pope could not possibly have meant what he said. Oh! before I forget: Just yesterday, President Obama declared his admiration and appreciation for Pope Francis. What am I missing?
Anton L. Seidl, at least one website said the Holy Father did not mean that we should not evangelize, but that we should not proselytize as some Protestant do in Latin America. I cannot look for the website right now, but the way a Latin American might use a term might not be the way a European or Northern American use the term — difference in cultures. Jessie Romero on Immaculate Heart radio, as I was driving along yesterday, really helped me to understand some things about Pope Francis too.
Dear Ann T. : As a trained linguist and polyglot, I am unable to distinguish “Proselytize” (like the Protestants) from “Evangelize”. The words are synonymous. Both mean “to make an attempt to convert”. In any case, Pope Francis stated that trying to convert is “solemn nonsense”. I am at a loss to interpret those words in any other way. Words have meanings. The problem with Pope Francis’s words is that they are frequently open to misinterpretation; “solemn nonsense” how2ever, is an exception. There is no amount of Jesuitical casuistry that can be employed to change their meaning. This is precisely what leaves many of us baffled and confused.
Anton, I think what Pope Francis is saying is that we should try to convert those who know nothing about the Catholic Church or who are poorly catechized first by telling them of God’s love for them and how he died on the cross for us before we start to tell them about the Ten Commandments or moralize. I do not think he meant that that is necessarily the way we should do it for those those who do know or should know better.
And actually, we do not convert anyone. We merely plant the seed, and God does the rest.
Or we plant the seed, someone else waters it, etc. and God does the rest.
You bet the progressive Catholics are happy: all fun, and no discipline. Ask any kid if he’d like his parents to follow that example. Sin is fun for a season, but the wages of such is still death. Discipline is hard, but leads to a fruitful life. The liberal factions in the church are still rebelling against their parents, and the ultimate parent: God.
Woe to church leaders who conform to this world.
Perhaps “Fr.” Thomas Reese, S.J. is happy because once again he has been invited to poison the minds of attendees at Archbishop Gomez’s, yes it is now his) Anti-Religious Education Congress.
Those who placed their hopes in Gomez must be now having a rude awakening, at least those who really hoped he would be more orthodox than Mahony, who by the way is also a speaker next year. Yes all of that anti-Mahony stuff was just window dressing on the part of Gomez.
You can see the list of speakers at: RECongress.org. I strongly suggest that real Catholics say some prayers before reading it. You will find many pro-sodomite speakers on the list.
Here are the titles of Reese’s talks:
Pope Francis: What Does He Mean for the Church?
Pope Francis: What He Means for the World?
May God have mercy on an amoral America!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Those who would like to have a marked up copy of the REC speakers’ list can contact me at: crcoa@att.net or 714-260-3821 (Cell).
I have marked it up in red, yellow, and green. I am in the process of marking some in lavender. The colors should tell the story. By the way, we could only find THREE speakers that we could mark in green!
May God have mercy on an amoral America!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Kenneth, you seem to be very one sided in you comments & never reply to questions regarding you comments such as what is the ‘Modern Church’ and ‘Amoral America’. Fr Reese is entitled to his comments and your activist feelings are very one sided in most of your comments. One of the joys of our country is the fact that we have freedom of speech in all matters and I believe you should listen to what people say and respect their feelings.
And John, while the joys of this country might give way to feelings and opinion, Truth does not change. That is why you note a seemingly one-sided tone to Kenneth’s comments.
And the truths he speaks are the truths that were passed down, not those formulated by haphazard opinion and the ‘changing’ times.
In other words: dealing with people’s feelings and working with them is one thing. Respecting them, that is giving ‘feelings’ the same credence as reality and logic is a one way ticket to mass chaos. Which is precisely what you see embodied in the Modern Church when dissenting opinion is raised falsely to that of reality.
Oh, and John, do you really need an explanation for AMORAL America? Come on. Hit home with logic if you’ve got it.
Yes, John, Kenneth is one sided. On the side of Christ and His Church. You should come on over.
Maybe Father Reese was going through depression.
Perhaps he was discouraged by…oh, whatever.
The fact that the Church is alive and well in Nebraska isn’t going to help someone in Bakersfield whose marriage is falling apart, whose children have abandoned the faith, and who just got diagnosed with cancer.
Nor will the vim and vigor of the cornhuskers inspire some priest whose vocation is suffering: looks at how long Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta suffered her dark night of the soul.
We are all touched and inspired by different things in life…a new baby being born…a new Pope being elected…a new hip surgery…a new spiritual rebirth after a great retreat.
Why not rejoice in that?
Liberal and progressive “Catholics” are only happy when they think the doctrine of the Church is going to change. They are especially gleeful when they get to tinker with the Mass. Thanks to the ‘spirit’ of Vatican II, they have been successful in creating a church in their image, where one can sin unrepentantly to his heart’s content and still claim to be a “devout Catholic”. Sadly they fail to realize God is unchanging and thus so is His Holy Catholic Church. What was true yesterday is true today and will be true always. Liberal/progressive/modernist Catholicism is like a tree that does not grow fruit. It withers and eventually dies. Traditional Catholicism has and continues to flourish with religious vocations, marriages and large families.
Well said, Clinton. I for one am looking forward to the decline of personality cults surrounding the Papacy. That said, I would endorse what Pope Francis said about our attempts at converting people to be solemn nonsense, if, His Holiness had followed up with the reality that to be effective in converting people one needs to convert oneself first. But to what?
Thank the Good God, by His grace that this question is answered in Traditional teaching. Hence the fruit.
Love it. Love it. Love it.
He might have mentioned Joan’s Rome, too, on EWTN and Immaculate Heart Radio. She reports a lot about Church history, especially of the ancient churches there in that city.
“He” meaning the author George Weigel.
Well the modernists got what they always wanted in Rome now that he is Pope, how so very sad the hate our beloved Benedict had to endure all those years, and the hatred of the Modernists when our Holy Father freed the Traditional Latin Mass the Mass of All Times, pray for our beloved Benedict the XVI how we love and miss our Holy Father.
Chin up, dear, and don’t lose the faith.
It’s always tempting to look backwards and miss the good old days, but they are gone, so one must roll up one’s sleeves and keep fighting the good fight.
We have travelled through the reigns of various Popes over the last two millennia, and the Holy Spirit continues to live and to guide the Church quite nicely.
Jesus did, after all, promise that He would be with us until the end of times.
Love of the Latin Mass isn’t always due to love of the good old days, Suzanne. There is much fruit and common sense in tradition – that is traditional teaching as well. Tradition and Truth are what endures.
But you are correct in that one must roll up one’s sleeves and fight the good fight. One must also recognize that the Holy Spirit works where He wills – that could be why the fruits of Tradition are flourishing – thank the Lord – and not going away anytime soon despite those who would blindly brand that which is inherently Catholic as schismatic. Kind of like those in England who embraced Anglicanism to the dismissal of the Saints and their own Catholic forefathers.
But where does that lead?
Again, while I applaud Pope Benedict’s clarifications regarding the Latin Mass, the reality is that it was never abrogated. That is forbidden. But it took great courage and self-searching to put it out there on paper.
As for traveling through the reigns of various Popes, God has historically used bad/ambiguously scandalous leadership as a punishment for the faithful’s unfaithfulness and/or hardness of heart. He has also allowed leaders (like Moses) to grudgingly accept that which is not pleasing to God (like divorce) because of the hardness of people’s hearts.
Janet, there is something many do not realize, and that is that Emeritus Pope Benedict and Pope Francis do not hate each other and seem to get along very well. Much of this is just manufactured by the spin of the secular press it seems to me.
Ah yes, Fr. Reese, always among the usual suspects. This was the man who went on NPR during the 2005 conclave when it looked as though Ratzinger would become pope and he tried to link R. with the Nazis (Ratzinger was forced into service, actually was seized from the seminary in 1943 at age 16 and pressed into service in an anti-aircraft battery team); so I recall vividly Reese trying to taint BXVI as a Nazi-member and collaborator and “unelectable” as pope. Of course, Reese spoke glowingly of the late Carlo Maria Martini, a well-known dissident at the time (2005).
Steve Phoenix: Thank you for reminding us of Fr. Reese’s ignoble attempt to link Cdl. Ratzinger with the Nazis. I remember the term “Panzerkardinal” being tossed about as if that holy man were a storm trooper. It was a disgraceful smear campaign and totally
unworthy of a Catholic cleric.
Something is not right in Jesuit land.
WS : Something is indeed queer in Jesuitland!
Those that love the Tradional Mass according to Pope Francis have a ‘sensitivity’
I wonder why Weigel wonders. Reese resigned as editor of the Jesuit magazine America when Benedict XVI became Pope, purportedly after years of Vatican pressure–Cardinal Ratzinger, when head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, had complained several times to the Jesuit Superior General about its content. A browsing of America tells you all you need to know, which reminds me of a quip I once heard that “America magazine used to be Catholic, but now it’s Jesuit.”
Hymie: George Weigel is an articulate and well-educated man and a great protagonist for the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, he is still too attached to the “Spirit of Vatican 2”. He has yet to admit publicly the many ill effects of that ill-fated council. He still defends the indefensible.
Let’s keep in mind that our Pope has called for an implementation of Vatican II, feeling that not enough of its teachings have been made real yet. Should be interesting to watch.
Wasn’t knocking Weigel, or Vatican II for that matter. Just given their respective backgrounds, I’m merely surprised at his surprise.
“…moreover, no one with any sense of the majesty of the English language is pining for a return to the “See Spot run” translations with which anglophone Catholics were long abused. ”
Bravo – As a Former Lector in a number of Parishes, I have too often seen the Ministry treated as live practice for ESL (English Second Language) trainees, who leave the Congregation (particularly those with a Different ESL) lost in translation – even with passages they are otherwise familiar with.
(BTW – My Voice has actually been denounced as Too XY-Masculine for some Womyn in Charge of Parish Politics; giving the wrong impression to the congregation and particularly the Boys – compared to those who are Properly Ashamed of their Male gender)
The Lesson is supposed to be Read for Understanding and Instruction of the Congregation. A good heart does not necessarily make for a good speaker, and it is neither cruel nor improper to expect both from Lectors at Mass.
I myself have objected to the ‘Gender Sanitizing’ of the Readings – particularly Saint Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians: 13 – One of the most beautifully moving pieces of Scripture Ever Written
PC rewrites often mangle the Inspirational Poetic Majesty of the Translation – so as to dilute it in to a Hollow Farce of appeasement for Gender Feminist Misandry.
Of course I also know of ‘Church Womyn’ (paid insider bureaucrats too) who lead others in the Lord’s Prayer starting with: “Our Mother/father who art… PC2Me2…”
Michael: As if superimposed ‘GENDER SANITIZING’ will somehow make gender differences disappear. Taken to the extreme, it may likely become a crime at the birth of a child to say, “It’s a boy!” or “It’s a girl!” Sounds absolutely moronic, but I could see a lawsuit somewhere down the line.
After all, labeling anyone is a horrid crime against the ‘dignity’ of the person. Oops, I just segregated the human population from the rest of God’s creatures by saying, “Person.” Mea Culpa!
Vive la difference….. and God be praised for your masculine voice. The world could use a healthy dose of it!
There is no need for gender sanitizing. All that is needed is a respect by each gender for each gender that results in treating each human being as if he or she may have worth, not merely in the eyes of God, but in our own eyes as well.
Michael McDermott: I am glad to hear that there is someone else put off by the “Brothers and Sisters” greeting at the beginning of many epistles by Saint Paul. I checked the Acts of the Apostles in several languages and have yet to find the word “Sisters”…
ALS – I am going to cop out (in itself an age defining euphemism) and resort to a football euphemisms in reply – and ‘punt’ on your take on this subject, sending it back to the ‘community’ for further input.
When I mentioned “Gender Sanitizing” I had not thought of the call to “Brothers & Sisters” from the lectern – though I have certainly used it.
However, it had seemed at the time as an appropriate address to Both (and there are only two) Genders in the Pews, who were certainly Brothers and Sisters in Christ –
(at least most are – some are gaystapo activists who monitor services in order to keep tabs on the rest of us and report any ‘Ism-Obia’)
– And thus proper public speaking technique within the context of Lectorizing…
If others have a different view, I would be interested in their interpretation.
In My Own previous post – I was referring to two passages:
“If I speak with the tongues of Men & and of Angels. but have not Love…”
&
“When I became a Man I put childish ways behind me.”
Both are self referential to Author Paul, who would probably not have claimed have left childish things behind upon becoming a Womyn.
Just my take though – Anybody got another?
I myself have no hesitation at using the word “men” to mean “men and women,” nor at using the word “brothers” to means “brothers and sisters.” However, in checking the scholarly background to this question about Saint Paul’s Epistles during Holy Mass using the phrase “Brothers and sister,” it seems that this is not merely some crazed translator trying to be Politically Correct–but rather a Bible scholar trying to be GRAMMATICALLY correct in terms of New Testament Greek:
https://www.kencollins.com/bible/bible-t6.htm
In the epistles, Paul addresses “αδελφοι.” Greek uses the same word for brothers (αδελφοι) and sisters (αδελφαι) with different grammatical endings. The masculine plural includes the feminine plural, as it does in modern French and Spanish. The King James Bible (that is, the Authorised Version) translates αδελφοι as “brethren.” In those days, if someone asked you how many brethren you had, you might answer “two brothers and three sisters,” if that was the case. Today “brethren” is not in common use and we take it to be the plural of “brother.” Translating αδελφοι as “brothers and sisters” is correct. It conveys the meaning that “brethren” used to convey, but no longer does.
Suzanne: Your point about the Greek forms for brother and sister being allomorphs of the same root (adelphos) is well taken. My own complaint is that the formula “brothers and sisters” was adopted after Vatican 2 in an effort at “gender norming”. At the same time the plural for the English words “he” and “she ” were turned into an absurd non-grammatical “they”. Chairman turned into chairperson, fireman into fire fighter, etc. at nauseam. The formulators of the new liturgies were not immune to the zeitgeist. For centuries, the word “brethren” was used as the greeting in Paul’s letters and everyone understood that both males and females were included. The “brothers and sisters” formulation did not exist in earlier translations of Paul’s epistles. The change, in my opinion, was a cave-in to 20th century feminism.
Anton L. Siedl, Good posts. I understand what you are saying. The word mankind includes men and women. The devastation in the vineyard is ongoing. Years ago I attended Mass at a parish in our diocese and there were some song sheets placed in the pews. The title of one of the songs that everyone was asked to sing was, ‘His name is God is her name.’ Tragically, we have many wolves in sheep’s clothing who promote this very brand of evil nonsense, confusion and division. Some shepherds are asleep. The sheep are confused and scattered. I once heard a speaker at our parish. He said “Most of the people who have caused such destruction are not that concerned about doctrine for the sake of doctrine. He said that they were MORE concerned with holding on to some particular delicious sin that they refuse to give up.” Anton, In other words, they are building their own false little religions based around the flexibility of their own personal sins. This is why they hold on to some practices of the faith that do not interfere with their “fun” or delicious sin. We also have many people within the Church who are not properly catechized. Many have been taught that these goofy kinds of teachings and songs are “inclusive and fun.” Many Catholics have been deliberately dumbed down for the sake of someone being able to call whatever delicious sin they want to embrace, an inclusive good.
“And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. ” Matthew 16:18 Douay-Rheims
Catherine: Your remarks are spot-on! While attending the graduation ceremony f0r one of my grandsons at Santa Clara University, I actually heard a nun over the PA system thank and praise “our Mother and Father” in Heaven. I kid you not!
At a Jesuit university, God has turned into a hermaphrodite. This women was clearly catechised at some point in her life.
Where but from the poisoned well of feminist propaganda could such an expression even materialize. Worst of all, no-one seemed even to notice that whopper!
Catherine when I read your post I was stunned how can they sing a song titled ‘His name is God is her name.’. I never heard of that…this is hard to take. and your right about people promoting what they are flawed in, in their personal sins…they are not about the truth but about what fits their needs which unfortunately is of the flesh.
I noticed that even if someone was well catechized, because of free will, there are the lost sheep, they still reject what they re taught. They lack something deeper than just what is being taught to them intelligently, they lack humility and fear of the Lord.
What next?!?
Of the three pontificates in my lifetime, something tells me the pontificate of Saint Benedict XVI (He will be canonized) will be the most significant in 50 years. a few things he did, very few will have a profound effect on the life of the church. He is a student of history and a very very intelligent person. He sees far like a Giraffe
I’m with you Western Schneider – but then a ‘few’ things slowly, but rightly played are often what wins the game. In the 5 popes that have reigned during my lifetime, however, I’ve come to understand that being canonized doesn’t have the weight it once did.
That said, I’d opt for Pope Benedict to be in the company of Pius XII.
Ann Malley, many of us did (want Cardinal Burke as pope), but as one Catholic writer wrote, the Jewish people expected the Messiah to be a knight in shining armor who came and cleaned up the mess with one sweep of a sword, but what they got in the Lord Jesus Christ was someone far different. To me that was an article to really ponder. Cardinal Burke certainly has his place but Pope Frances IS pope and certainly has his. That does not mean both are not holy. After all, when one compares St. Jerome to St. Frances, there seems to be a world of difference but both were canonized. The same with the comparison between Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Frances. There is no need to compare too critically. Each appeals to different types of people. Some people need gentleness to come to the Lord, and others need a swift “kick” in the behind.
Ann T: You are right in that there are many that need gentleness and those that need the swift kick. That said, I was never a fan of Pope Benedict XVI. I’d be more contented in the decline of the personality cult surrounding the Papacy. But being Catholic is not about pleasing me or anyone else.
With the rise of the media, however, and the dumbing down of culture, it is increasingly difficult for Popes to carry out their office of protecting and transmitting the Faith. We crucify them. But in shifting teaching techniques so rigorously and/or giving up precision for off-the-cuff interviews, we risk muddling truth as well.
Reply
Anton, with respect,
You, and probably most of us, are missing the warm charitable heart like the one Francis is demonstrating to the world as no other Pope has. He is throwing off all that distracts from the task at hand.
Why is he doing this NOW ( when we are in such a mess )? It is because , in this our lowest point the time has come for clear Christ-like example to be shown by the man at the top himself, the Vicar of Christ – the visible representative of Christ’s authority on earth. Nothing trumps that. Like St Paul he is saying boldly: See what I’m doing – DO what I do .
“Let your kindness be evident to ALL.” Philippians 4
And I believe we ain’t seen notin yet.
Knowing, spreading and standing up bravely for your catholic beliefs is NO LONGER the way- no longer the first step, it is living our Faith in an authentic visible Christ-like way as Pope Francis is showing us. God bless our Pope.
He sees that we have lost so much ground that a return to the zeal of the early Church is the only way. How can you resist this man? He is the real deal, I think.
He will not give up one iota of doctrine in reaching out, in a million easily understood ways, to all of God’s children. He says: “I am a son of the Church” He is not lying to us. Wait and see.
Michael, with all due respect, living the Catholic Faith has always been THE WAY. The ONLY way. As in take the beam out of your own eye before diddling over the splinter in that of your brother. There is NOTHING NEW about that.
If, however, that notion of novelty motivates you, GREAT! But please do not denigrate the absolute urgency of knowing, spreading, and bravely standing up for Catholic beliefs. For without knowledge of what those beliefs are or should be, how in the Heck can one set an example of anything??!!
You have to KNOW something in order to embrace it and set an example. Many Catholics today do not. That is a HUGE part of the problem. So when it comes to evangelizing, realize that YOU are your closest neighbor. That goes for charity as well. Look to your own deficiency in knowledge, practice, and love of the Faith. Work on that and by virtue of your own change, you will change those around you.
Ann Malley, those who do not know about the Church’s teachings, I think, are those whom Pope Benedict is trying to “gently” teach. Those who do know the teachings, and there are many, but reject them to their own detriment and that of others are the ones who need the “kick” in the behind. I know because the Lord has used both gentleness and severity with men, depending on the need.
Correction: I meant Pope Francis in my last post. Sorry!
Another correction: I meant “me” not “men” in the last line. Now I am off of here before I make any more mistakes, and the Lord “kicks” me.
Our Lord has used the kicks for me. Ann T. Not that I don’t see the benefit of the gentle hand as well. But like I said in another post, Francis can seemingly kick the teeth in of Traditionalists (whose fruits are growing despite his, perhaps, personal dislike) because he knows they’re not going anywhere. They follow the tradition of the Church and will not be put off from the works that they do despite what the Pope seemingly says.
It’s a calculated risk on his part. Very Jesuit and far-sighted actually if he is trying to get the atheists/heretics/fallen away to give the Church a ‘second chance’. One must break through the barriers to get the disaffected to believe you might ‘just maybe’ sympathize with their position.
I, personally, don’t respect the tactic. But then I do not have his job. Thank goodness! My task is to keep focused on personal growth and holiness within the path that the Holy Ghost moves me. My experience has also led me to be more of a straight shooter instead of a sophist. But that works for me as wife and mom. Thank goodness!
By seemingly aligning himself with
Michael P. Mc Crory, you have understood the Pope well.
Q. Jesus in his preaching said that agape, love for others, is the only way to love God. Correct me if I’m wrong.
A. “You’re not wrong. The Son of God became incarnate in the souls of men to instill the feeling of brotherhood. All are brothers and all children of God. Abba, as he called the Father. I will show you the way, he said. Follow me and you will find the Father and you will all be his children and he will take delight in you. Agape, the love of each one of us for the other, from the closest to the furthest, is in fact the only way that Jesus has given us to find the way of salvation and of the Beatitudes” Pope Francis interview in La Republica
Michael Mc Crory: I am not questioning Pope Francis’ purity of heart nor his concern for the poor. I am disturbed by the heterogeneous messages the world press processes on a daily basis, explaining to us what the pope said and what he really meant. When I heard that President Obama is now one of his admirers I become exceedingly concerned. I hope Obama is also misreading the pope’s words; if not, we are indeed in trouble!
Anton, is not the Gospel message inherently heterogeneous? In that Christ did not die for the saved but for the sinners. Is that not the ultimate heterogeneous idea that ever did exist? The first shall be last and the last first? Is that more heterogenous verbiage?
What would, pray tell, our ultra-orthodox amongst us do with statements like these? Is not Francis merely reflecting these heterogeneous statements, but in the context of our time?
YFC: Christ died for all of us, for those who are saved are none other than those who accept the grace He offers. We are all sinners. And how!
As for the last being first, you are right in this Truth. But those last are those who are called to and correspond with repentance. God heals all. But we – even the ultra orthodox – have to let Him. And that is hard. Even if our ‘only’ mortal sin seems to be small and/or excusable by worldly estimation.
That goes for homosexuals who are carrying the cross of loneliness and seeming disaffection, and the married who are carrying the cross of the ‘lagging middle’ (much like a prolonged novel that is purported to have a killer ending) while managing a joyous horde of little ones, and anybody who chooses to truly follow Christ when the world encourages us to do exactly the opposite.
As for Pope Francis, he is doing his best with the knowledge and formation he has. But Jesuit formation, as evidenced to the shot-gun-spray-scandals surrounding the order, is no guarantee of perfection and/or holiness. He is trying, however, just as we should -warts and all.
Ann, possibly for the first time, I agree!
Glad we could come to some understanding, YFC. And I’m a Latin Mass, gal. Go figure!
Ann, I’m also not opposed to the Latin Mass, nor to gals who prefer it. I just don’t think we should make claims (and I’m not saying you said this) that the Latin Mass is in some ways more valid or more sacramental or more holy or more sacrificial or more complete or more innately spiritual or more historical or more anything than the Masses promulgated after Vatican II.
YFC: Never thought you said as much about the Latin Mass. Was just putting it out there about myself.
That said, having studied the theology behind both rites, I have learned some on the subject. (More than I would have liked for comfort’s sake, sadly. I originally opted for the Latin mass for highly personal reasons.)
While the the new mass is valid, I’ve got to say that the elements that were targeted for elimination and/or reconfiguration when going from the Tridentine Rite to that of Paul VI, lent much credibility – again to my dismay – to the claims that the Latin Mass is all that you said in your post.
Even so, I might have dismissed what I ‘thought’ I’d learned if it didn’t dovetail my own observations/experiences of the fallout and confusion still happening in the Church today. That ‘aha’ moment of understanding has made it impossible for me to go back to the Novus Ordo.
Ann, these things you think you know about the NO are merely your subjective opinions about its holiness, sacrificial nature, completeness, etc. There is no objective theological or liturgical justification for your opinions, unless you believe that it is the actions of people that make the Mass what it is, which would of course be heresy.
As I said, YFC, I do believe that the NO is valid. That is when proper form, matter and intention are all present. But ‘that’ is precisely the issue as form, matter, and intention in the NO are often willy-nilly all over the place – even if done so with a seemingly good human intention.
I’ve moved upward of 26 times in my married life. With family in tow. This has given me a frightening perspective of the rampant heterodoxy inherent in the NO rite. It is this background conjoined with actual study of the foundations of the NO that leads me to my current position. But you are within your rights to ascribe my position to subjective opinion if you so choose.
As a parent, however, it was/is my chief duty to supply for the wholesome feeding and subsequent growth of those under my care. So whereas the food value ‘may’ be present in the NO, I cannot expose my charges to the inconsistent trappings of a rite that leaves itself wide open to distraction, disinformation, and the devaluation of solid Catholic teaching. I’m not at liberty to do so.
If you are interested, I will go back and get some solid theological references for you. But then it was/is my own sad experience that drew me to do the research. You may not be prepared and/or at a point to accept what you read as it is not uplifting, but rather very telling.
We have lost ground not because of a lack of love, but because the catechesis in the USA has been lousy over the last 45 years.
Bishops, Priests, Nuns, and theologians do NOT publically, actively, and regularly encourage all literate persons to read the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”.
The majority of Catholics do not know their Faith, and rely on the statements of others which may contain errors. Even Bishops and Priests can make human errors.
” Read in this light, the prophetic text leads to one conclusion: we need knowledge, we need truth, because without these we cannot stand firm, we cannot move forward. Faith without truth does not save, it does not provide a sure footing.”
and
” These, then, are the four elements which comprise the storehouse of memory which the Church hands down: the profession of faith, the celebration of the sacraments, the path of the ten commandments, and prayer.
The Church’s catechesis has traditionally been structured around these four elements;
this includes the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is a fundamental aid for that unitary act with which the Church communicates the entire content of her faith: “all that she herself is, and all that she believes” . “ – Pope Francis (Encyclical Letter LUMEN FIDEI, 2013)
We are NOT a Church which believes in or teaches – RELATIVISM, HERESY, SCHISM or SCANDAL.
Disobedient and/or prideful Bishops, Priests, Nuns, Theologians, and Laity are the real problem. Read the CCC in entirety.
Sorry !
‘Did not see the 250 word limit.
The Jesuits ceased being Roman Catholic decades ago, and yes Steve they tried in vain to link our Holy Father Benedict the XVI to being a Nazi, when in fact he was conscripted into the German Luftwaffe “air force” as a anti-aircraft Flak gunner in Vienna. All German boys were to join the Hitlerjugend or Hitler Youth there was no escaping that sad to say.
Pope Francis interview in La Republica:
Jesuits were and still are the leavening – not the only one but perhaps the most effective – of Catholicism: culture, teaching, missionary work, loyalty to the Pope. But Ignatius who founded the Society, was also a reformer and a mystic. Especially a mystic.”
Pope Francis can say all he likes that the Jesuits are the leavening. But look around you, Anonymous, at the rampant Jesuit scandals and unchecked corruption.
“…Woe to those through whom scandal comes.”
As for reformation and mysticism, there is a rigorous discernment that goes with mysticism. ‘White lights’ can often be caused by physiological issues and in this day and age are associated with all manner of new age movements. But oh, the signs and wonders!!!
Janek: Minor correction. Young Joseph Ratzinger manned one of several Caliber 88mm anti-aircraft guns deployed on the northern outskirts of Munich to protect the BMW Motors production plants.
Thanks Anton!
“Fun to be Catholic?”
Well, I suppose at times we should enjoy the reality of being Catholic, and not be ashamed of the ‘fun’ we have: at parish potlucks, dances, school events, and even socializing with fellow Catholics after Holy Mass.
As Jesus says in the Gospel: “I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.” (John 15:11)
Such joy can help us get through the rough times in life…and, if noticed by nonbelievers, might even convince them that the Risen Lord is truly in our midst.
Suzanne: John 15:11 is Our Lords reference to His eternal joy at union with God the Father by way of keeping His Commandments. That is deep abiding joy at knowing that God is with you and you are with God despite the external circumstances that may lead you to believe otherwise (like martyrdom at the coliseum.)
If proof of the Risen Lord being in our midst was evidenced by potlucks, dances, school events, and assorted socializing, one could say that the Risen Lord’s joy is manifested at any secular event. Even Satanists and Atheists can party and be ‘fun’.
The banality of modern thinking is so depressing. ‘Fun’ to be Catholic? Lord, deliver us.
It is a great joy to be Catholic.
I agree, Anonymous!
I wouldn’t live any other way!
Well, I still like to think being Catholic might be deemed enjoyable, inspiring, fun, worthwhile — as opposed to onerous, boring, excruciating, and gloomy.
One fun thing about being Catholic is the ability to see what other Catholics are discussing out there in CyberSpace — we are such a large Church, we get lots of opportunities.
You make my point, Suzanne. The supposed ‘Catholic’ fun of discussing things in Cyberspace can be attributed to any group that shares common interests and goals.
The notion of ‘liking’ to think of being Catholic as fun instead of onerous, boring, and/or excruciating and gloomy is all a matter of perspective. It isn’t ‘fun’ to follow the tenants of the Catholic faith faithfully. It is difficult as often it goes against our human nature.
Staying married to the same person till death do us part. Having as many children as God sends you. Being scrupulously honest on one’s taxes. Holding one’s tongue. Getting to mass instead of rolling over for much needed sleep: All of these are work. This is being Catholic, being Faithful or at least doing your darndest to try.
The thing that makes the above Joyful is that we know these things are pleasing to God. Doing the above goes beyond US. That’s what we need to communicate to the world. Because if we focus on the ‘fun’ outsiders will quickly learn via experience that this ‘fun’ is really a lot of hard work. And the joy of pleasing God is a nuanced gift that one must ask to receive. So that when being Catholic isn’t fun anymore, one will stick around. And the rest of us will stop trying to pander to the ever-changing need of the crowd for entertainment, innovation, and thrill seeking.
This kind of verifies something I have suspected-that many CCD posters really don’t like being Catholic and they do what they have to for salvation. That is why it bothers them so much when someone else does not toe the line they feel they have to toe. Then they start threatening them with hell.
Anonymous writes, “This kind of verifies something I have suspected-that many CCD posters really don’t like being Catholic and they do what they have to for salvation.”
Anonymous, Hopefully there will soon come a day when you fully understand and accept all of the Magisterial teachings and then you won’t have to look back and say, “How could I have been so arrogant in my suspicions and so blind!” Do you also think a long distance runner who wins the Olympic Gold Medal is awarded that prize simply for having experienced fun and games? You know better than that. There has to be a considerable effort put forth to finally win the Gold Medal or the race. As far as your claim that CCD posters get bothered when others don’t toe the line you are wrong. You have been given by God the gift of free will to toe the line in whatever you choose to do or not choose to do. No different than the athlete who fails to adhere to the many different self sacrifices and self disciplines that are entailed in winning the Olympic gold medal.
CCD posters are talking about finishing the race regarding our salvation and to ignore the reality or claim that it is not a hard work to deny oneself and pick up one’s cross in order to finish the race does not mean that someone does not like being a Catholic. It means they trust that Jesus founded the One True Church and it means that they believe in Jesus’s words. For every difficult sacrifice and every difficult trial there are always tremendous blessings that far outnumber any hardship.
cont.
Anonymous, No one is bothered by the fact that God gave you a free will. There will be CCD posters who will be bothered when posters lie about the teachings of the Catholic Church but once again it is a matter of free will to either accept or reject these teachings. A rejection of these teachings does not mean that the teachings do not exist. There are also athletes who choose to avoid self-mastery and choose to not toe the line in self denial, self discipline and self sacrifice and whether you choose to deny these facts, the majority never make it to the Olympics let alone win the Gold medal. They may claim that they are trying out to be a fellow Olympian but their lack of self sacrifice and self disciplines will make it much more difficult for them to persevere and ultimately finish the race to receive that desired Gold medal. It’s their choice. Our salvation involves the running and finishing of the most important race of our life. We will use our free will to either reject Christ’s teachings or accept them. The teachings of the Catholic Church include the the existence of hell. You may freely choose to accept that or reject that.
Your post demonstrates that you either do not fully understand or you choose to NOT believe Jesus Christ when he said to his disciples. “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.” Matthew 16:24 Douay-Rheims
I accept all magisterial teachings because they are magisterial teachings. Those who hold goods for use and consumption should use them with moderation, reserving the better part for guests, for the sick and the poor. OR Political authority has the right and duty to regulate the legitimate exercise of the right to ownership for the sake of the common good. OR Access to employment and to professions must be open to all without unjust discrimination: men and women, healthy and disabled, natives and immigrants. OR God blesses those who come to the aid of the poor and rebukes those who turn away from them. OR The goods we possess are not ours but theirs. OR When it is made publicly, a statement contrary to the truth takes on a particular gravity. OR Irony aimed at disparaging someone by maliciously caricaturing some aspect of his behavior is an offense against truth. OR Nothing can justify recourse to disinformation for manipulating public opinion through the media. OR The presence of Christ in the minister is not to be understood as if the latter were preserved from all human weaknesses, the spirit of domination, error, even sin. OR By virtue of the Holy Spirit, bishops have been constituted true and authentic teachers of the faith.
Like the self-denial of attending the parish that you are geographically assigned to; or submitting to the will of the bishop and pastor on the matter of altar girls; of giving to all church campaigns no matter how much your self-conceit wants to dictate what are worthy causes; of going to confession to whatever priest is at your parish; of singing each of the songs the choir chooses. Like the self-discipline not to say any thing negative about anyone; to not listen to those who are not fully in communion with the church; to not repeat gossip; to never retaliate for a real or perceived insult. Like the self sacrifice of remaining honest and kind in all your relationships, even those that you did not choose to be in; like forgiving those who have wronged you or someone else; of not exaggerating things to suit your purpose; of letting go everything that is in the past; of only speaking to God or of God; to show respect to elected officials even when they are not the ones you voted for; of submitting all things to your husband or obeying without question your superior or bishop; to abandon your plans and desires for those of God.
“To carry the cross does not refer to the need to endure patiently, the great and small tribulations of life. It is not suffering for its own sake that a Christian seeks, but love… Jesus walks ahead of his followers and asks each one to do as he himself has done…[they] must be the servant of everyone…to leave all riches behind which prevent you from entering the Kingdom of Heaven…to accept denial and opposition from wherever it comes…It is the path of life and true happiness.” Blessed John Paul II
k-anonymous, Stop your hiding if you accept all the Magisterial teachings of the Catholic Church. You have deliberately chosen not to use your old recognized name because your other duplicitous posts were exposed. Your specific assignment and ongoing goal has been to selectively silence anyone who exposes a specific rot within the Church. You have have a very long posting history of selectively protecting and running interference for specific types of rot and you have been called on it by others. You certainly know how to selectively ask others to silently bear heresy and nonsense (His name is God is her name) yet you consistently come out the silent woodwork to run interference and protect specific types of rot and errors that are being exposed. The reason you now choose to also call yourself anonymous is that it enables you to on one hand sound as if your accept all of the teachings while you are selectively undermining faithful clergy who do obey and courageously stand up for “all” of the teachings of the Catholic Church. The reason that I often bring up a past post has nothing to do with not forgiving someone or the act of forgiveness. Previous posts expose the glaring inconsistencies of calling oneself a Catholic who accepts or obeys all of the teachings of the Catholic Church. Previous posts also point out that certain posters are trying to pull a fast one over the gullible by pulling the selective suffering wool over some of the sheep’s eyes.
cont.
St. Thomas Aquinas stated, “Where there is a proximate danger to the Faith, prelates must be rebuked, even publicly, by subjects.”
“We’ve had enough of exhortations to be silent! Cry out with a hundred thousand tongues. I see that the world is rotten because of silence.”
– St. Catherine of Siena
k-Catherine, I have no idea what you are talking about. Your statements that I do not accept all magisterial teachings is false. Your statement about specific types of rot makes no sense. Whatever the heresy and nonsense (and the wacky thing is parentheses), undermining priests BS and all the other crazy things you say, makes it seem like I hit a nerve. Your quotes from St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Catherine of Sienna are about what? Do you really think that silence is the issue in our world? Really? Pope Benedict said there was too much noise.
Catherine, if the first part of your post was about me-not a single sentence was true. How very, very sinful of you! I will forgive you yet again. I think you are approaching the 7 x 70 mark.
“Self-denial of singing each of the songs the choir chooses.”
kanonymous, Your denial of protecting and running interference for specific rot within the Church is approaching the 70X 7 mark. Now you are even promoting and suggesting that Catholics should sing a goofy song that is titled ‘His name is God is her name.’ Dead Giveaway.
kCatherine, never heard of that song. Dead Giveaway of what? don’t know what your are talking about.
The Catholic Church is Holy. This is a tenet of the Creed. If one does not believe it, then one is guilty of heresy. Some call certain Catholics faithful that have a long standing pattern of attacking the Church, undermining the Magisterium and defending others who profit from attacking Her. Here is the rule, if you are not in communion with the Church you should not receive Communion.
Catherine, as you know, I have gone through a lot mentally and emotionally, trying to understand why you persist in lying about me. I thought you were just being vindictive. I thought that you do not really know the Catholic Faith. I thought you were mentally ill or just plain mean. After reading some of your posts to Maryanne Leonard, I think I have figured out that the issue is one of prejudice. You have very rigid pre-conceived notions about how a person would speak. If someone says a certain word or phrase you think they are gay lobby, or anti-doctrine. You seem to feed your prejudice with readings from websites and books that help solidify your bigotry. If something, even the gospel, triggers that set of beliefs, you go off. You don’t seem to read things that actually come from the Church itself, except for Scripture. I forgive you for your faults and I hope God will bless you and lead you on to understand the Catholic Faith, which I believe you sincerely care about. Love, k
“I think I have figured out that the issue is one of prejudice. You have very rigid pre-conceived notions about how a person would speak. If someone says a certain word or phrase you think they are gay lobby, or anti-doctrine. You seem to feed your prejudice with readings from websites and books that help solidify your bigotry.”
k, Other posters have often recognized your very ambiguous posts. It is not just me. I will admit that I have been consistent in calling out such posts. Those words of yours that I quoted above are very similar words and tactics that have been used on many faithful Catholics. To adhere (= rigid and stodgy) to the Church’s teachings makes one a bigot. Therefore they are prejudice. This is also the same tactic that was used to send many seminarians home in Michael Rose’s book ‘Goodbye, Good Men’.
Since this is the internet we really do not know what a person’s true intentions are or what specific agenda they may have. We can only go by the consistency or inconsistencies of their posts. CCD is extremely unique in it’s willingness to consistently expose the turbulence within the Church. In the past if anyone would dare to teach, promote and defend the Magisterial teachings then they were immediately silenced either by being removed from seminaries or removed as a pastor or removed from teaching positions because they were called rigid. k, What you cleverly call bigoted, prejudice and rigid, others would call simply being faithful.
Catherine, thank you for your reply. I am very aware that most of those who post here struggle with the Catholic Faith or the Catholic Church. Those who do not trust the Church will not like what I post. I do not call you a bigot or prejudiced because you adhere to the Church’s teachings. (In fact, I desire for you to adhere more rigidly to them.) I call you prejudiced because you have images that come from reading books or websites which are centered on finding the enemies of the Church. Then when someone who is faithful says something that reminds you of something in that book, you project onto them a lot of things that are not true. I am as dismayed as you are that orthodox candidates for the priesthood were dismissed. I do not like the lack of obedience and orthodox beliefs among some religious sisters and the laity. I desire orthodoxy and rigidity in the True Faith. In fact I expect Catholics to adhere to EVERYTHING with no exceptions and no complaints. Then, one is faithful. I want you to have confidence in the Church and in the Lord. I think that CCD has done some good in exposing some things in the Church which should not be going on. All of the posters are not as faithful as those who run the website.
Anonymous: It’s not about ‘liking’ being Catholic or not liking it. There are many things in life that are necessary and even fantastic over the long term that are not ‘fun’ and or ‘easy’.
Believing that frustrated Catholics who tow the line just want others to tow the line is like saying your parents want you to learn to be responsible and work just because they never get to have fun. Very short sighted and childish, Anonymous.
As to threats of Hell – I can see that said with a corresponding pout and stomp of foot. Hell isn’t a threat, it’s a reality. Just like if you don’t discipline yourself to get out of bed and go to work, getting fired is the most likely result.
If you ‘choose’ to learn the hard way, you will. The problem with that is often when the lesson is learned, time to change has run out. I hope you make use of time time Our Good God gives you to come around before you lose out.
Maybe you haven’t been reading this website long enough. You are projecting petulance onto me that I do not feel. Of course hell is a reality. I always need to better conform myself to Christ. That said, there is a wide variety of people who post here. Those who threaten hell are often not even attending Catholic churches. There are many who accuse others falsely. Some of these, by their own admission, have converted from gravely sinful lives. There are many renouncements in being Catholic and some are relatively easy while others are painful. No one has reached perfection. I hope I do not lose out and I hope no one does. I hope God is patient with all of us.
Anonymous: If I have projected a petulance upon you that you do not feel it is only because – as an admitted newcomer to this forum – that is what seems to underscore your postings. This is not meant to be rancorous, just my honest take on what you’ve written. Sorry if there was/is a misinterpretation.
I’d venture that you are just as frustrated and/or angry about your decision to submit to the laundry list of crosses outlined in your earlier response. You have every right to be as they are crosses.
The turning point for me was when it came to allowing my children and my formerly heathen husband to be influenced by these confusing crosses. I could not sit idly by and witness (sorry) false logic being put across as the Gospel. Whereas it may be a cross for me, it would be a horrific malformation of conscience for them.
So as some opted to remain under the influence of Arian priests and bishops out of obedience, I’ve no doubt that others did not. Otherwise we’d be Arian.
What Tradition preaches is not anti-Catholic. And that is the main issue ‘I’ have with those who are anti-Tradition. For how is it that the whole of the Catholic Church is supposed to be open and loving towards their brothers (fallen away, Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, Jew, Atheist), but not to their own true elder brothers in Tradition?
No, Ann, I am not angry or frustrated. I am dismayed that so many false teachers exist and that so many well-meaning and devoted souls fall for their errors. I am afraid that you may be under the influence of schismatics. Apostolic Tradition is from the same source as Scripture-God. There are people who call themselves Traditional Catholics who are in fact schismatics. The traditional Catholics who remain united to the Pope and in full communion with the Catholic Church are the ones that are truly traditional. Even if you live in an area where the Mass is not entirely as it should be, you are placing your family in spiritual danger by attending any Extraordinary Form of the Mass that is not approved by the local ordinary. While these Masses are valid, they are illicit.. Please check if the Mass you attend is both valid and licit. And please don’t fall for the lie that St. Athanasius was exiled by Pope Liberius and they are his modern day equivalents (he wasn’t and they are not). Don’t fall for the lie that most of the bishops were Arians (they weren’t then and they aren’t now). Don’t fall for the justification that there is an “emergency” in the Church which gives them faculties. There isn’t and they do not have faculties. They are suspended priests who are performing illegal rites.
Be careful Ann Malley, we have had Anonymous posters who professed that they are united with the church yet they always bring forth confusion when it comes to homosexual lifestyles and sometimes attack holy priests from our church in union with the Magisterium. I don’t know if its the same Anony but I know some regulars who have posted here before under different names and sometimes come here as anony as well not by accident.
Thanks for responding, Anonymous. It seems we have much in common, for I am frustrated to the bone with those false teachers who hide the Catholic Faith beneath the cloak of ecumenism, modernity, rampant novelty, political correctness, and change for the sake of change. (And not all of these teachers are doing so from malice, but from disinformation or a lack of formation.)
This may not be another Arian crisis, but there assuredly is a crisis when the Catholic Church attacks its own patrimony as divisive. There is no need for anybody to ‘tell’ anyone. A body would have to be deaf, blind, and completely illiterate not to know.
So if the Latin mass we attend is valid – and it is – I’m there. Mother Church will provide the rest as there is crisis, and I and my family are believers of good will. As for indult masses and those provided by diocesan approved Latin Masses, there wouldn’t be any if not for the SSPX. So please don’t deride them even by implication. Latin Mass goers – especially diocesan approved attendees – owe them a large debt of gratitude.
As you state, “Apostolic Tradition is from the same source as Scripture-God.” Catholic tradition as given before Vatican II is clear to me. It gets too fuzzy after that, like Microsoft in it’s obsessive release of new, new, new. Pandering to the crowd. It makes me so sad.
It is true that the indult Masses came about because John Paul II needed to excommunicate the SSPX bishops and he wanted those who went to their Masses to have a place to go. I don’t know which parish you belong to, but if a priest or another person there is saying that the patrimony of the Church is divisive, a letter to your bishop is warranted. Ecumenism is not necessary during Mass. When done correctly it is an aid to unity. It has been the source of mis-deeds by those who do not understand it. There should not be novelty, either, not change for the sake of change. If this is truly the case, let your bishop know.
Ann, I send you this link. It is on a website that is traditional and also in communion with the Holy Father. The article is The Merits of the Mass by Father Ripperger. It will explain to you why it is necessary to make sure that the mass you attend is not illicit and the priest not suspended. I think you will like the website it is on as well.
https://www.faithfulanswers.com/merit-of-a-mass/
God bless you for your charity, Abecca. Your warning is duly noted and most appreciated. I have seen what you describe even in my short time on this board.
Anonymous 1 regarding indult masses. John Paul II didn’t ‘have’ to excommunicate the SSPX. He chose to do so as a means to squelch the truth and numbers coming forth from the group – something a true liberal might brand as the ‘mystical’ fruits of the Holy Spirit who moves where He wills. (Strange how novelty is branded as the Spirit of Vatican II while traditional Catholicism is falsely labeled as schismatic.) It would have been better, in my humble opinion, had John Paul II stated *truthfully* that the Tridentine mass was never abrogated instead of coming across as a pseudo-savior to those who were ‘sentimentally’ attached to the Latin rite. There is no sentiment here. In other words: It is the Novus Ordo and Modern Church that derides the patrimony of Catholic Tradition. By rite, by practice, by preaching, by so many things it is impossible to list without incurring the wrath of those poor folks having to monitor this blog. But your concern is most appreciated. And no Clintonesque attempt to redefine what ‘is’ is will change that. That is not your attempt, but that of modern Rome who falsely declares that there is some hermeneutic of continuity. (There should be, but there isn’t.)
Anonymous 2: Thanks for the Fr. Ripperger site. I’ve been there and done that a long time ago.
John Paul II excommunicated Bishop Lefebrve and the 4 men that he ordained as bishops without permission. Bishop Lefebvre knew he would be excommunicated when he did it. It has nothing to do with squelching truth. You have been fed a load of lies and Satan is the Father of all lies. You seem to have crossed into heresy. There is one, holy Catholic and Apostolic church. If you do not believe that, you are a heretic.
Ann, If you understand the article by Father Ripperger, then you understand that the extrinsic merits of the Mass are not available in Masses by suspended priests because those merits come through the Church and their Masses are not in the Church. You are giving up a lot. You cannot justify it by saying there is a crisis in the Church. That is false. Of course there is continuity. If whoever you are following was of God, there would not be lies. I am afraid you have been badly misled by a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Anonymous: Keep up with the times. The excommunication of the 4 Bishops was lifted by Benedict XVI. (do you think he’d do that if the SSPX were wholly unCatholic and in heresy? Not very papal of him.) And, if you’re a Latin Mass goer – would that you were – you owe a debt of gratitude to Archbishop Lefebvre. Especially if you attend the Indult Mass. Without the Archbishop having stood up for Tradition and the Mass, it would have been squelched. It was, Anon, and unfairly so or do you believe that Pope Benedict didn’t know what he was about either?
I suggest you get all the facts straight before labeling anyone a heretic. Also keep in mind that there are Popes in our own Catholic history who have promoted heresy. Yes, Anonymous, it’s true. Scary as that sounds.
So read the history for yourself. Not an SSPX tract and not the tract put out by heterodox Bishops who want to keep the faithful from looking too closely at what’s going on to loose numbers when folks opt for the tmore traditional mass down the street. And ask yourself – if there isn’t a crisis in the Catholic Church how in the world could Catholics – who are supposedly in full communion – elect such an abortion/homosexual supporting President who has cursed our United States with his radical promotion of ‘change’. And under the watchful eye of undisciplined and scandalous, Biden, Pelosi, Sebelius to name a few.
Wake up!
Ann, the excommunications were lifted at the request of those 4 bishops. They were lifted in the hopes that they would reconcile with the Church. Talks with them ended last year with the SSPX bishop refusing to conform to Catholic doctrine. The Congregation for the Doctrine on the Faith stated that they cannot negotiate doctrine for them. They stood firm in the Faith and the SSPX said no, they don’t believe it and they won’t come back. There has never been a Pope who promoted heresy. No Pope has ever taught against faith and morals, even if he himself was no example of holiness. It is an error to think that Catholics voting for pro-choice politicians indicate a crisis in the Church that renders faculties to suspended priests. It just does not work that way. Just as women cannot become ordained even if they go through the motions and ritual of an “ordination”, suspended priests do not receive faculties just because Catholics sin. I am glad about and I was an advocate for the return of the Latin Mass. One must understand where the authority of the Church lies. I believe that you have trusted people who should not be trusted and that you are suspicious of those who you should trust. Invoke the Holy Spirit before prayer or study. Pray the Rosary daily. Praying for you and your family in addition to my ongoing prayers for those who have been misled.
Anonymous Part 1: That’s very good that you understand, Fr. Ripperger’s message. The message I see is a man who was formed in the priesthood by the SSPX, took what he could, and then left for perceived unity with Rome. He would not have the FSSP if not for the SSPX – or rather the Holy Ghost making use of the SSPX to retain the mass by way of fighting for it. That goes for the merits involved in the offering of mass too. (I don’t see Fr. Ripperger tossing over the Latin mass for the Novus Ordo. He should if he really believes that the SSPX is so evil.)
You say…”You are giving up a lot. You cannot justify it by saying there is a crisis in the Church. That is false. Of course there is continuity. If whoever you are following was of God, there would not be lies. I am afraid you have been badly misled by a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
You, Anonymous, are giving up Truth, reason, and all common sense. I am giving up false obedience and, despite the lashing from supposedly faithful Catholics, cleaving to that which God has called me to, doing His will first in the protection of my family and in honoring the sacrifice of others.
Anonymous Part 2:
My justification, Anonymous, is rooted in sound pre-Vatican II training, eyesight, and looking to the funky fruits of what many have been led to believe is still Catholic. I cannot do that. (Too bad, actually. It would be far easier if I could!)
That’s my own conscience – not exposure to those nasty wolves supposedly plotting our demise at the SSPX. (I give thanks for tradition every day, knowing that if it had been successfully repressed there would be no hope for me. God had other plans.)
So when posting, I’d ask you to realize that not everybody is some hapless sheep, incapable of scenting, seeing, and connecting the dots (warnings of previous Popes against modern heresy) and what is going on today. Asking why a person does/thinks the way they do is usually better.
But go ahead and keep telling yourself there is “NO CRISIS” as you have been taught by those who have orders to ‘look the other way’. Ignore reality as families, dioceses, parishes fall apart and the visible Church seemingly mutates into some pan-religion of acceptance and all manner of nonsense – the same nonsense that 100 years ago would have been fearlessly labeled as heresy and excommunicated.
Oh, I’m sorry, much of what passes for new theology today has already been condemned – but the followers of this new ‘continuity’ don’t want that message to get out.
Be careful, Anonymous. The graces that are the fruit of the mass are not like Chuck E. Cheese credits that can be racked up with the only focus being the prize at the end.
Ann, the SSPX is not evil. The SSPX is not formally in schism; they are still united with the Church although not in full communion and their priests are all suspended. They live in this grey area that says we obey the Church when we want to. We obey the Pope when we want to. (Which makes them anathema to the sedevacantists and other ultra-traditionalists.) The FSSP were priests who decided to remain with the Church when Bishop Lefebvre was excommunicated. Fr. Ripperger was FSSP but is now a priest for the diocese of Tulsa. I am surprise by your attack on him. It is believed by many that attending a Mass held by SSPX priests would satisfy the Catholic precept to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation. There are other’s that do not. You should make sure with your local ordinary whether that Mass fulfills that precept. If it does not, it still may not be sinful to attend it as long as you do not substitute it for Mass attendance. You sound like you are afraid of the Catholic Church. When you pray the Lord’s Prayer, really mean the deliverance prayer at the end.
Ann Malley, we are bound to follow Tradition. Sacred Tradition. Apostolic Tradition. Which includes maintaining unity with the Church of Rome and the Pope. Some who call themselves traditional Catholics are heretics and schismatics. They are in mortal sin with all its effects and consequences. The Great Schism came when the Orthodox Church decided the Catholic Church was heretical for changing the Nicene Creed. Others have split with the Church over other things. The Catechism of Trent was written by Pope St. Pius V after the Protestant Reformation and it is very clear that if one is not united with the Pope-the bishop of Rome-then one is a heretic and schismatic and they have no membership in the Body of Christ. That is Catholic Tradition. You believe, like a Protestant, that at some point the Catholic Church stopped being the Church of Christ. You are wrong and you will be condemned if you do not repent and rejoin the Catholic Church. That is Catholic Tradition.
Dear ‘Anonymous’ posters (response 1)
First, please consider that it might be fairer when remarking on ongoing threads that some identifier beside Anonymous is in order. Otherwise it makes responding very difficult as you all seem to take a slightly different tac. (Reread the nuances of assorted ‘Anonymous’ posters and you’ll clearly see what I mean.)
That said, THANK YOU, all for your prayers. Prayer is the help we all need – especially that of being delivered from evil. Having said that, we could debate point for point, grasping at all manner of what we righteously believe to be Truth, unadulterated and complete. We all — you included — have much to learn in this regard. The first being the assumption that those who are following SSPX and/or Independent Traditional priests are doing so because they are intellectually misled, under some spell of sorts, schismatics, sentimentalists, Protestant, or not invoking the Holy Ghost or not praying the Rosary. Those are all grievous assumptions worthy of self examination.
Dear Anonymous (part 2)
Try asking the why questions before preaching. That goes for my supposed attack on Fr. Ripberger. It was the man’s position I take issue with. If you cannot understand that after reading and digesting the whole of my postings, then our dialogue is me speaking to a wall and no dialogue at all.
As to that, I suggest Anonymous (#3?) to look at all Pius V put forth in his teachings. He was pretty specific about not changing the mass. Draw your own conclusions there.
But if you all choose to hunker down and throw stones from your fixed positions – okay. Even if those stones are prayer bombs – love those!!!! Unfortunately, or perhaps by God’s grace, my family and I have been called to roam the United States (over 26 moves now) and do not have the luxury of ‘fixed’ anything. We have been and are called by way of this vagabond life to take action against all manner of liturgical nonsense and are making use of what we can, when we can, where we can, and thanking God for it all. This includes SSPX and Independent and at times FSSP. I just cannot abide the name calling and grand standing.
Anonymous part 3:
Even so, if these matters were as black and white as you outline in your posts, then there would be no disagreements between Cardinals, Bishops, priests, faithful, and Popes regarding the Traditional Catholic ‘situation’. Sadly, and I mean sadly, there are and there have been. And whereas heresy has never been proclaimed ex cathedra by a Pope, it has been preached by Church leadership of old much like the modernist nonsense that is part of Vatican II, but not as an ex-cathedra or dogmatic pronouncement.
So again, thank you for your prayers and concern. Both are hugely appreciated. But while you’re praying extra hard to be delivered from evil, give thanks for the certainties that you think you have. Give thanks for the GRACE of where you are. The seeming stability in your lives and all that goes with it is surely that. Or it could be conducive to a certain blindness.
For now, I’ll carry the cross that Our Lord has sent me which includes dialoguing with folks such as you – folks that should seriously ask themselves why there are so many who are supposedly so easily misled.
Root cause it. Ask questions. To quote the Pope, “Meet your neighbor where he is.” That’s not all about atheists or proponents of abortion and same sex marriage. For Catholics are your brothers too.
Oops, sorry to not respond to Tradition Lives On. Ask yourself why and how precisely tradition has lived on. Look at those folks involved in the transitional stages that have led you to have that which makes you feel comfortable and safe in the haven of grace. READ. And please pray for me because it is God’s grace that has led me to the place I reside. You too. May He be praised forever!
Ann Malley, why do you believe what you do? You claim that you discerned all this by yourself? Aren’t you the one who left the Church for 27 years and has only been back for 2? Do I have you mistaken with someone else? The things you say seem to be straight from the ultra-traditionalist handbook. It’s hard to believe that you just came up this stuff by yourself. You don’t seem to have a real grasp of the history or the theology of the Catholic Church. You seem to believe a lot of things that are not true but that are stated by sedevacantist or other schismatics. And I am not calling names. They teach that the Catholic Church is in schism and that they are preserving the true faith. Which is not true. Because Tradition states that it is necessary to be united with the Pope. I understand that will not accept that.
Anonymous, have mercy. Use a name – a fake one if you’d like. It would lend more credibility and clarity to your own posts. Or at least the integrity of your position. No name calling or slamming here, just read the mess above ‘all coming from divergent anonymous posters’. Kind of hard to keep track.
That said, read for yourself. Read the Church history. Read encyclicals from previous Popes. Try: The Second Vatican Council – An Unwritten Story by Professor Roberto deMattei and Michael M. Miller.
Don’t go to websites that advocate Sedevacantism – not if you’re looking for an understanding of my position. I’m not a believer in conspiracy theories, but rather question the roots of inconsistency that I’ve lived through, read about, and still see on the news, in the Vatican, at myriad parishes and in those who claim the name Catholic etc.
Before you state that “…you seem to believe a lot of things that are not true…” Please be specific or else look into it yourself. It’s not that difficult. If you find a source that confirms your belief – great. If you find primary sources that challenge your beliefs – ask why. And read some more. And I’m referring to Catholic sources. Pope St. Pius X’s Syllabus of Errors is a good starting point.
So do you believe that the Catholic Church united with the Pope is the true Church? That is my question.
Yes, Prior Anonymous, I do. That’s why I pray for the Pope – not, the Jesuit Beroglio. And thank you for the name. It’s appreciated.
Spread the Joy of Christ Risen – Don’t Mwangal the Message
The “Catholicism” series from Father Barron’s ‘Word on Fire’ Ministry has accomplished what has all too often eluded the Church – Combining Simple Joy in God’s Creation – with Understanding of God’s message to Us All through His Son Jesus – The Christ.
Unlike ‘hippie dippy’ services some thought would ‘modernize’ the Mass to be ‘more relevant’ – Barron’s ability to convey His own Joy in the Truth, without turning away from the sorrows that Also accompany so much of Real Life, has inspired so many of us.
This refreshingly honest and open Return to the shared Joy that Saint Paul was able to convey, even in letters written from prison, has been a game changer in Evangelizing Our Own – as far too many had never heard the Rest of the ‘Good News’ before.
I donated copies to some Catholic Schools I substituted at, and found students profoundly receptive to a message simultaneously upbeat, and yet presented in an intellectually stimulating and Adult manner.
Unlike sugar coating a bitter pill, “Catholicism” could be fully digested without ‘benefit’ of theological training – which too often produces desiccation instead of flowering of the Spirit.
Although Joyfully True to the Magisterium, some “Professional Catholics’ are outraged that Barron mentions St. Charles Lwanga & Companion
Martyrs of Uganda (burned alive by Pederast King Mwanga for failure to submit to Homo-Anal Rape)….
– Although the Flowering of the Church from their Martyr Graves is just as Profoundly Joyous.
To Ann above,
Unaware of the 250 word limit my message was cut by two thirds. Here I add the rest. ( I hope)
You could not have read carefully what I said or you would not have answered as you did to things that I never said, in the part that you read.
As Chesterton said: ” It’s not that Christianity has been tried and found wanting it is that Christianity has not been tried.” We are all guilty on that score, surely.
Pope Francis has had the benefit of the good example of his predecessors John Paul ii and Benedict. Building on that , he sees that the NEXT STEP is to show the world not just the One True Faith -Catholicism, but the Face of Christ himself in the person of the Pope himself. He is doing that for me already. I know how I must change my approach.
Is it not true that if others do not like and admire us as human beings why would they admire our Faith. Sure ” The world will hate you” Christ warned, but that’s not a license to be in constant contentious mode.
This is the most positive media attention paid to a Pope since John xxiii Let us most fortunate of people capitalize on it.
He is bang on. He is saying:
“It is absurd to argue men as to torture them into believing.” (Cardinal Newman.)
It is easier and less time consuming for me to be right than to be nice and loving – and which comes first ? LOVE of course.
Third part of my original piece.
Pope John Paul ii said:
“Mankind as a whole, and Christians in particular, is searching to find meaning and purpose in a world that has become increasingly complicated and difficult to be happy in. ” And he was a very positive man of great grace.
How despairing then must those souls be who have not been blessed like us Christians. At least we have the assurance that no matter how bad life has been for us we still have eternity to compensate us.
“See these Christians how they love one another.” is what we need the world to say about us now.
Certainly not this dumping-on this most genuine of men- Pope Francis. And certainly not this dumping-on, (even by mass going catholics,)
” those lazy, good for nothing- always looking for handouts poor ” of our world.
Thank you Pope Francis; you surely do light up my life.
Michael: Thanks! You are right in what you say about ‘living’ the Faith and having that be a walking advertisement. What I’m trying to say is that that notion has never been new. That is precisely how it should be. But not just since Francis.
That’s why I got a little flayed on other posts about lightening up on homosexuals – not the sins involved. The gist of my message was ‘Look to your own house and yourself with regard to how you are sinning mortally. Clean it up. Embrace holiness, joyful giving, and joyful living of the Faith’. That in itself will call down God’s blessings that will in turn increase the numbers of our fold.
And yet, having said as much, there absolutely needs to be consistent and precise teaching as to what each in his state is called to accomplish. Otherwise, you run the risk of living what ‘you’ believe to be a Faithful life while scandalizing others (that is depriving them of the True message).
Translation: You have to KNOW something in order to embrace it, live it, and teach it. As for Pope Francis, I do not like his seat-of-the-pants methods, but he is getting people to talk and take action.
In all history it was suffering that truly represented a true Christian life. There were the good times and the bad times, but it’s always a blessing to be gifted with faith. Faith is more than just a word, but its a gift. Its not always fun, as one may fool others into thinking. There was always a saying that says “if you are not being challenged in your faith from the secular, if there isn’t any suffering as in taking up your cross on earth, then we might have to question are we truly for Christ?” Its frightening to use a slogan as “Fun to be Catholic again”…..what does this mean, why use the word “again” and what does it say about the person who makes such a statement. What purpose does it serve? When was it not ever fun or good to be Catholic? I can think of much deeper words to use than your average word “fun” but the real insult is the “again”. I’m sure that could mean something different depending on who you are speaking with. I wonder if those who indulge in the secular meaning of fun, if they were being persecuted for their faith, would they step up to the challenge and continue to convey that, even in deep persecution for standing up for the natural law, for defending the faith…are they truly doing what they are called to do and that is to do God’s holy will. Will they be up to the real challenge and accept suffering.
Be careful what you ask for, for you may get what you seek. You never know how much deeper you can grow if you truly suffered in God’s name. Let His will be done, not ours….even if its not always “fun”. It was the saints who found suffering to be a “joy” but I don’t recall them using the word “fun”. Its not fun watching our fallen away brothers and sisters fall deeper in sin with the secular growing more wicked. It’s not fun hearing that abortions are available all over the world now, it’s not fun hearing people praise wickedness and hate righteousness, its not fun seeing more people leave the church for whatever reasons especially on reasons that they think we are not Christian or honor the Holy word of God, the list goes on and on….
James 1:2-4
Beautiful posts Abeca! I remember the huge fun sounding banner slogans “Journey Together” and ” *PROUD* to be a Catholic in Orange County” during and right after the large sex abuse payouts in Orange County. Abeca, Where was the humility in these fun sounding novelty banners? It is one thing to be joyful in being a Catholic and joyfully suffer for Christ but it is quite another thing to be asked to mindlessly continue on the same so called “journey” to more payouts with humungous street facing banners that scream out “we are PROUD of it.” Prudence is a cardinal virtue and wisdom is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Abeca, You are wise to trust only Jesus and the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church and not the latest “novelties” of fun.
Those huge PROUD banners were certainly not very ‘fun’ for the victims and their families to read.
“The word humility signifies lowliness or submissiveness an it is derived from the Latin humilitas or, as St. Thomas says, from humus, i.e. the earth which is beneath us. As applied to persons and things it means that which is abject, ignoble, or of poor condition, as we ordinarily say, not worth much. Thus we say that a man is of humble birth or that a house is a humble dwelling. As restricted to persons, humility is understood also in the sense of afflictions or miseries, which may be inflicted by external agents, as when a man humiliates another by causing him pain or suffering.” – Catholic Encyclopedia
Humility-the moral virtue that keeps a person from reaching beyond himself. It is the virtue that restrains the unruly desire for personal greatness and leads people to an orderly love of themselves based on a true appreciation of their position with respect to God and their neighbors. Religious humility recognizes one’s total dependence on God; moral humility recognizes one’s creaturely equality with others. Fr. Hardon’s Modern Catholic Dictionary. The model of humility is Mary.
Thank you Catherine….you are special, I don’t think much would take the time to read my long post. It must be boring for some but it’s coming from my heart. Your comments touched my heart and it added a better conveyance than what I tried to convey, as if you completed it even better. Oh yes it’s beautiful to be in humility, there we find God. To the proud humility is sometimes seen as someone who is dumb or not to be respected. We know how wrong they are……
You brought up good points too, I guess this article just came off wrong especially of the title. Better descriptive words would of been better if one reached depth and the word again….well I still don’t get that, why again?
I suggest that Pope Francis follow in the footsteps of Pope Clement XIII who called for a consistory in order to disband the Jesuits. I cannot recall a single Jesuit University or College that is not in essence anti-catholic.
Satan has been very unhappy with the growth of the Church these past few decades, and especially with the promulgation of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which cemented Church teaching (again).
I note with trepidation the pride and self-satisfaction expressed in many of the preceding remarks. Let us not get puffed up too much. There still is much wrong with the post V2 Catholic Church that needs to be rectified. The damages inflicted by the laissez-faire liberalism adopted in the 1970’s are still with us today. No-one talks about the general acceptance of artifictal birth control and divorce among modern Catholics, attitudes once anathema. Have we purged our seminaries of the plague of homsexuality? Are we merely preparing a new crop of lavender priests? Does the pope mean it when he says that trying to convert non-believers is “solemn nonsense”? That concerns about abortion and buggery are “obsessions”? That atheism is not necessarily a barrier against entry into Heaven? That “Extra ecclesiam” is no longer operative?
Is this progress?
A Google search reveals no song like the one Catherine claims to have heard. Anyone else ever heard it or know anything about it?
GodisGreat,
The song ‘His name is God is her name’ was typed out and on individual song sheets. The song was not in the book and that is probably why you did not find it on your Google search. It would be very wrong for me to make up that story. The song sheets were set out on the pews. I distinctly remember that experience because right before the same Mass when I was walking into the Church there was a man standing outside in the church parking wearing casual clothes. He said hi and I said hi back. When I went around to enter the side door I saw the same man entering into the side door sacristy and it was then that I saw the same man who said. “I am the new priest here” I said hello Father welcome to the parish. Then I said, “Oh I am sorry Father when I saw you earlier out in the parking lot I did not recognize that you were a priest, I would have addressed you properly.” He dramatically responded, “OH I AM SO GLAD that you did not recognize me from having to wear those dark, dreary and depressing black clothes.” I did not say anything back but I did recognize that it was not a very good sign. I walked into the church and sat down and that was when I saw the song sheet with a song titled ‘His name is God is her name.’
cont.
GodisGreat, I did not join in and sing the song. I felt incredibly sad inside because I recognized how terribly our church is being assaulted from within. There was another very good priest at this same parish and he said that there was a group of feminist teachers at the same parish. He told us that these feminists had treated him terribly and that at first he could not understand why they were being so cruel and rude to him but he later started to recognize that these feminists were promoting new age songs within the parish. That story about the song is true and it should not have taken place. I also remember at that Mass sitting next to a woman who appeared to be in her eighties. After Mass I asked her what she thought of the song and the homily. This woman said ‘Oh, he’s fun, I thought he was terrific.” The priest who said he did not want to be recognized in dreary depressing clothes and who had denigrated the Catholic church was eventually sent to other parishes in our diocese and he was promoted to and is currently a pastor. Please use your search engine and read the messages of Our Lady of Akita. Japan and you will read where Our Lady’s messages talk about our churches being sacked and the compromises that are being made. Our Lady loves all of her priests. Our Lady is mercifully warning all of her most favored sons to stop offending God.
Thank you for replying and explaining. How awful.
Why is that such an issue? Ascribing gender to God is anthropomorphizing. God does not have a gender. Earthly beings have gender. Ascribing gender to God — at best — is a device that allows our limited consciousness to envision God as a being.
Jesus was male, but if you think about it… He had to be born a male in the time/place he was, or would have otherwise have encountered greater difficulty in spreading his message.
to quote Catechism, “God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes.”
Is God a man…or a woman?
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH:
“370 In no way is God in man’s image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective “perfections” of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.”
Barnett writes, “Why is this such an issue?” “Ascribing gender to God — at best — is a device that allows our limited consciousness to envision God as a being.”
Barnett, This is why it is an issue….Your post could be seen as a cleverly disguised device that helps to cause confusion and enable error. The limited consciousness of ungodly raged feminists and homosexual activists have been falsely ascribing gender and human characteristics to their own false god named homosexuality and the false goddess named the “circle” of mother earth. Many who believe this still call themselves fellow Catholics. The father of lies mixes truths with lies in order to deceive others. The feminists at this particular parish often wrote songs about “circles” which has nothing to do with the teachings of the CCC. Be on guard for those who teach or worship the word “circle” and then still call themselves a practicing and faithful Catholic. They have been taught error and they are confused and they in turn have misled many. Some DO know exactly what the Catholic Church teaches but their goal is to deliberately rebel against those teachings by using very deceptive devices of influence.
Please see the You Tube Titled ‘Charis Circle What does a feminist look like?’ ‘This is not Catholic video or teaching, yet many within the Church are being misled to believe that this same kind of confusion falls under the banner of Catholic social justice. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is very clear regarding these teachings.
He dramatically responded, “OH I AM SO GLAD that you did not recognize me from having to wear those dark, dreary and depressing black clothes.”
Catherine, this guy seems to be going through a dumb mid-life crisis! Why in the world would he become a priest if he doesn’t like to wear black??? Our young people today often wear black because they find it classy and cool, yet here we have a Roman Catholic priest sporting, what?, an aloha shirt?, like some clown.
His bishop needs to have a talk with this character before he badly influences any young men considering the priesthood…
There are so many distortions and lies in some of the posts above. There is no salvation outside of the Church. The Church is the Holy Catholic Church united with the Vicar of Christ. This is an Article of Faith. If you say “I believe in the Holy Catholic Church” you must mean that Church founded on the Apostles. Apostolic Tradition are those things revealed by Christ to the Apostles which have been handed down without error and preserved in the Catholic Church. Some sects call themselves traditional Catholics. Even if they preserve the ecclesiastical traditions of an earlier time in the Catholic Church, they are not in union with the Pope and therefore they have broken with Apostolic Tradition. They are no longer Catholic.
Ann Malley, I am curious. Since you travel so much, to so many TLMs which version of the Missal do you prefer? Have you ever attended one that used the Missal of 1570? Do you object to the feast of the Presentation being included in a Missal?
Do you object to the use of true charity, Anonymous? It would seem so even as you object to the use of an identifiable moniker. I will leave you to your curiosity over the missal of 1570 and the Feast of the Presentation. The resulting sleeplessness could provide prayerful opportunities.
As to the previous Anonymous, there are many lies to be sure. Be watchful.