The following comes from a March 3 posting on Whispers in the Loggia.
It’s being called the “Cupich appointment of the West,” and not without reason – resolving the highest-profile vacancy on the current US docket, at Roman Noon tomorrow the Pope is slated to name Bishop Robert McElroy, the 61 year-old auxiliary of San Francisco known as one of the Stateside bench’s most outspoken progressives, as the sixth bishop of San Diego and its 1 million Catholics in the nation’s seventh-largest city.
As reports of the appointment circulated for several days, three Whispers ops appraised of the move confirmed the news. Coming just shy of six months since the premature death of Bishop Cirilo Flores after a brief struggle with cancer, as reports here at the time indicated, the succession was indeed fast-tracked given both the relative freshness of the consultations leading up to Flores’ own selection in early 2012 and the diocese’s still-unsettled state from its 2007 bankruptcy amid a torrent of sex-abuse lawsuits, which was settled for $197 million.
While the projections of timeline panned out, the choice of a relatively junior auxiliary – even one hailed as among the “leading intellectual and pastoral lights” of the bench’s rising generation – is a significant surprise. That’s anything but to say, however, that McElroy isn’t ready for prime time – a Harvard undergrad with doctorates from both Stanford (in political science) and the Gregorian (moral theology), the San Diego pick served as vicar-general to his mentor, the retired San Francisco Archbishop John Quinn, before 14 years as a pastor during the tenure of then-Archbishop William Levada.
Beyond his assisting role until now in “The City,” the bishop is notably a member of the influential Administrative Committee of the USCCB – the 30-prelate group that is the body’s ultimate authority outside of the plenary session – as the regional delegate for the sprawling turf comprising California, Nevada, Utah and Hawaii (i.e. the area covered by the Golden State’s twin provinces).
Already a familiar figure in the pages of the Jesuit-run America magazine while still a parish priest – including a 2005 piece where he memorably shredded the then-nascent movement to bar Catholic office-holders from receiving the Eucharist over their support for legal abortion – in 2010, McElroy was named an auxiliary to then-Archbishop George Niederauer, a move that clearly enjoyed the blessing of Levada, who by then was CDF prefect and oversaw the appointment from his perch on the Congregation for Bishops (where he remains into the present). Given the spotlight of the current context on questions of religious freedom, it bears reminding that McElroy’s Stanford degree has its focus on religious liberty as conceptualized by John Courney Murray and integrated into Catholic tradition with Dignitatis humanae, Vatican II’s declaration on the topic, whose title the bishop took for his episcopal motto.
The auxiliary’s move south intriguingly coincides with a tense period in San Francisco, as Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone’s planned addition of doctrinal and morality clauses to the teachers’ contract and policy handbook at the archdiocese’s high schools has garnered loud protests in the famously liberal enclave. Yet even as McElroy’s new assignment lacks the pallium that comes with the helm of California’s first metropolitan church, San Diego’s fold is more than twice his hometown’s size.
The third appointment Francis has made to date to a US diocese of a million or more – after Bernie Hebda to Newark in 2013 and, of course, Blase Cupich to Chicago last September – McElroy’s progressive leanings in the border post could augur a clash with a local political sensibility where Republicans run strong, above all in the presence of several military installations and retirees who remain in the area. (In a 2011 America piece, the bishop lamented what he termed the US’ policy of “war without end.”) On a more pointed angle, as the nominee has arguably been the strongest voice among the stateside bishops in echoing Pope Francis’ calls for a “poor church” and warnings against income inequality, sending him to the diocese that’s home to Mitt Romney’s recently-completed “dream house” featuring a car elevator is a storyline all in itself.
Word from San Diego indicates that a 10am presser tomorrow has already been called. According to two ops, McElroy’s installation has been scheduled for Wednesday, April 15th.
As ever, more to come.
Bishop McElroy has a WONDERFUL heart and mind!
I have experienced his kindness first hand!!!
And I do believe that he has become more traditional in his being an Auxilliary Bishop of San Francisco!!!
Best Wishes for you Bishop and know that prayers are coming your way……..
Bishop McElroy is a Progressive…..social justice over life……Catholic Answers is based in San Diego and I’m sure they will be busier than ever cutting through the confusion.
Elizabeth – More traditional ?
Supporting SACRILEGE ? – Holy Communion for those who wish to continue in committing Mortal Sin ?
McELROY’s January 26, 2015 – QUOTE: “I’ve always favored the Greek Orthodox position in which a person can receive the sacrament of marriage only once, but a divorced person who is remarried in a civil ceremony is welcome to receive Communion, he said.
The church cannot begin with exclusion.” UNQUOTE
If Bishops of this ilk win, when they allow some people to receive Holy Communion while in the state of Mortal Sin,
why wouldn’t they allow ALL who are in the state of Mortal sin to receive Holy Communion ?
After all anything else would be discriminatory and exclusionary.
By his own words – McElroy VIOLATES the DOCTRINE of the FAITH by supporting SACRILEGE – supporting giving HOLY COMMUNION to those who choose to continue committing the Mortal Sin of ADULTERY.
Either he chooses not believe that Adultery (having a sexual relationship with the VALID spouse of another) is a Mortal Sin –
he chooses not believe in the DOCTRINE of the FAITH which clearly states that we must have the resolution not to sin again AND not be in the state of Mortal Sin to receive Holy Communion. CCC #1451, 1415, 1355.
Either way he is a heretic.
Church definition of heresy: “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;” – CCC 2089.
Thank you all. Can you state strong facts so it will help me when i write my letters of concern. Thanks. I know nothing about him.
Abeca – here are just a few links that may help.
Some of the posts after the two CCD articles have Sacred Scripture posts as well as CCC posts.
It comes as no surprise. His silence in support of Archbishop Cordileone has been deafening. God bless Archbishop Cordileone.
Very true Nicholas…….haven’t heard a peep of support from him or Bishop Justice. Archbishop Cordileone is the lion-hearted! May God Bless him!
Not surprising Bob One.. you cheer while your “church of the poor” crumbles into dust…Francis will do his very best to destroy the Church may this Papacy end quickly…
The Holy Father has US in his sights. Pray he does not convene a Council Vatican III.
Every time you mention the Holy Father we have to pray. Remember, he visits the US in September: Pelosi will be first on line to receive communion. Kerry as well. Biden will probably give him a shoulder rub. Card Whirl will be levitating. Dolan’s head will explode from giddiness. The UN will cheer his environmental ideas. Reminds me of when Christ met the crying women on the way to the Cross. Don’t cry for me but for yourselves and your children. Pray for us all. There is so much more to come.
DottieDay, you paint quite the picture. Unfortunately it is probably accurate.
” Pelosi will be first on line to receive communion. Kerry as well.
Biden will probably give him a shoulder rub.
Card Wuerl will be levitating.
Dolan’s head will explode from giddiness.
The UN will cheer his environmental ideas. ”
And when the US crowds cheer for Francis and the confusion that he has caused – we all must remember what JESUS said: ” you will be hated by all for My name’s sake, but he who endures to the end will be saved”. Mt 10:22.
” The question is raised, why doesn’t he himself clarify these things?
Why is it necessary that apologists have to bear that burden of trying to put the best possible face on it?
Does he not realize the consequences of some of his statements, or even some of his actions?
Does he not realize the repercussions?
Perhaps he doesn’t. I don’t know whether he’s conscious of all the consequences of some of the things he’s said and done that raise these doubts in people’s minds. ” – CARDINAL GEORGE
Yes Pope Francis does know the repercussions of his words and actions — and all for the good I say. He is the Vicar of Christ. Stop and think on that. No small thing.
Do you really think he is so dumb as to need your ( or any of you narrow thinking catholics)
He clearly upholds Church teachings,, he just doesn’t do it quite to your liking.
Michael P. Mc Crory – Kasper & Dannells invited guest speakers of Pope Francis at the 2014 SYNOD – supported and continue to support
SACRILEGE against the Body and Blood of our Lord – – –
Receiving Holy Communion by those who purposely choose to continue to live in the State of Mortal Sin – adulterers, homosexuals (acts), and fornicators.
This violates both Sacred Scripture and the Doctrine of the Faith.
These are Mortal Sins.
This is a Mortal Sin of Scandal.
1 Cor 11:27-30 condemnation for receiving unworthily;
Jesus on Profaning the Holy : Mt 7:6.
CCC: 2120 – on Sacrilege.
CCC: 2285 on the Mortal sin of Scandal.
The demise continues.
Liberal prelates like Bishop McElroy, as well as Archbishops Cupich, Wuerl, and Dolan– (to name a few) — at times seem to respect orthodoxy, but in reality, NO!! They scare me half to death! Pope Francis, likewise! These prelates seem to spend their time, slowly destroying the Church, in the name of “religious freedom,” “tolerance,” etc. etc. They are also not clear, on highly important Christian moral issues! Just how “Christian,” (or even authentically “Catholic!”)– is the entire USCCB?? Our Church leaders– are LIARS!! Such “political” clerics are “over-educated, WORLDLY intellectuals,” destroying their country and their Church! NO TRUE CHRISTIAN MORAL CONVICTIONS!! Sorry, poor little babies in the wombs of mamas who may not want them! Sorry, persecuted leaders of restoring true Christian Marriage! Sorry, persecuted devout Catholic school-teachers and university professors! Sorry, true Christian politicians, seeking office! I am sorry for San Diego! And so sorry to write this!
The Wuerl-Francis effect on the appointment of bishops in America continues.
AmChurch on the West Coast remains as the Left Coast.
An excerpt from Bp McElroy’s article for the 10-21-13 number of ‘America’:
Consider the issue of abortion, which represents probably the least complex application of clear and compelling Catholic moral principle to law. It is clear that Catholic teaching demands robust and effective legal sanctions against abortion. But should the law criminalize abortion for the mother or for those performing the abortion? Alternatively, should there be noncriminal sanctions? What is the best pathway to outlawing abortion: a series of graduated proposals beginning with parental notification and prohibitions on late-term abortion, or an immediate full court press for comprehensive prohibitions? These are questions on which men of good will can disagree in full accord with Catholic teaching, since all of these approaches seek to achieve the core principle that the law should protect the life of the unborn. Thus this is wholly different from the candidate who refuses to vote for any legal restrictions on abortion and argues that he is in fact doing more to reduce abortions by his support for aid to the poor and health care programs. Such a candidate has rejected the core substance contained in the Catholic teaching on abortion and civil law.
Makes good sense.
McElroy’s article is a deceitful lie, trying to get people to vote for Democrats and others who support abortion and abortion funding in the law.
We should have laws against abortion on demand, unless McElroy does not believe innocent human beings are worthy of the right to life.
Loosing one innocent life is one too many.
Torturing one innocent through dismemberment, or chemical burning is one too many.
Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) wrote the following – which is in full accord with Church teaching – including “Thou shall NOT kill.”
“Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion, General Principles.
There is NO prudential judgment in the murder of the innocent.
Abortion and Euthanasia are 2 of the Intrinsic Evils.
Thanks PETE for the info, I don’t really know much about McElroy. I guess its time for me to learn and seek the facts. I don’t know much about your posts but I hope MIKE makes a statement, I pretty much trust his comments. I said Amen to Elizabeth comments because to me she sounds faithful from her other posts and am trying to discern. Well fair enough, Ill keep reading to see what comes out of this and discern what needs to be done. My prayers are for what our Lord wills. God help us.
Abeca, this may help you get the measure of the man:
You mention ‘the intrinsic evils.’ I presume you are speaking of what ‘The Catechism of St Pius X’ calls the four sins that cry to Heaven for vengeance. They are:
1) Willful murder.
2) Defrauding the laborer of his just wages.
3) Oppression of the poor.
4) The sin of Sodom.
It is edifying to note that Bishop McElroy does his duty as a Catholic bishop and opposes all four, not just the ones that Republicans are against.
The scholar Thomas Storck has written that for awhile after Vatican II we got a string of liberal bishops, but in more recent years have been getting a lot of conservative bishops. He hopes we will start getting some Catholic bishops.
I know little about Bp McElroy – but from I have read so far, he is a CATHOLIC, not a conservative.
PS Cardinal Ratzinger had this to say to Catholics who do not live under a monarchy, but in a state whose citizens choose their leaders by voting: “When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”
Read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, second edition” – which all Catholics are required to adhere to in ENTIRETY..
“ The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved … and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine,
attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. – Pope John Paul – CCC pg 5.
INTRINSIC EVILS include ABORTION, CONTRACEPTION, HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE, EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH, EUTHANASIA, HUMNAN CLONING. This does not mean that these are the only MORTAL SINS, or that they are the entire Doctrine of the Faith. There are more in the CCC.
The 10 Commandments are also included in the CCC: “Thou Shall not Commit Adultery”, “Thou shall not covet they Neighbor’s wife”;
and also included is that Sacred Scripture is the speech of God in entirety (CCC 81).
McElroy supports ADULTERY – by his January 2015 statement that adulterers should be able to receive Holy Communion.
(Adulterers – those who are having a sexual relationship with the VALID spouse of another.)
“It is edifying to note that Bishop McElroy does his duty as a Catholic bishop and opposes all four, not just the ones that Republicans are against.” Uh no! Read the link below
Catholic Bishops should have nothing to do with politics – of either Party
and be only involved in teaching the Laity those things of the CATHOLIC FAITH – which includes the teaching of INTRINSIC EVILS such as Abortion, Euthanasia, Homosexual (Acts) Marriage, Human Cloning, Contraception, and Embryonic Stem Cell Research.
It is NEVER good when any Bishop does not know his own job vs the job of the LAITY.
CCC: 898 “By reason of their special vocation it belongs to the laity to seek the kingdom of God by engaging in temporal affairs and directing them according to God’s will. . . .
It pertains to them in a special way so to illuminate and order all temporal things with which they are closely associated that these may always be effected and grow according to Christ and maybe to the glory of the Creator and Redeemer.”
CCC: 909 “Moreover, by uniting their forces let the laity so remedy the institutions and conditions of the world when the latter are an inducement to sin, that these may be conformed to the norms of justice, favoring rather than hindering the practice of virtue. By so doing they will impregnate culture and human works with a moral value.”
Pehaps McElroy should resign his position from the Catholic Church, since he clearly would rather do the job of the Laity.
My response to Bishop McElroy is a simple three words, “Abortion is murder.”
Wow im starting to get concerned. We had Bishop Brom for years and we wished his leadership would of been strong.
…there’s a pattern, Abeca. And I hope you’re not just starting to be concerned.
Ann Malley since Christ’s church started. Read the bible. Since mankind began. Im concerned because he is coming to my area. So stop with your insults. Go and worry about your beloved SSPX. They are a huge problem due to their breaking away.
…then look to what is facilitating this Bishop still being a bishop AND moving to your area, Abeca. The Society is a ‘huge’ problem because they will not accept the compromise formulas you pretend do not exist while aiding folks that make you concerned. Read yes, but read for comprehension, Abeca.
Your disregard of +Kasper’s admission of compromise formulas in VII and Bishop Athanasius Schneider’s call to clarify portions of VII that are misleading is CONCERNING.
Abeca, if you stop feeding it, it will lose interest.
Well, People, what do you expect from Francis? He has not given any Catholic with a Traditional, or even conservative, religious belief that his mission is other than (1) rolling back anything that Pope Benedict tried to do, and (2) re-invigorate the simply inane, and non-Catholic, implementation of Vatican II (i.e., the re-birth of the “Zombie-Liberal”).
Soon our churches will be full, simply full, of crazy guitar music masses, various kinds of hippie greetings and welcomings for committed homosexuals, fornicators, adulterers, and virtually all kinds of sexual voyeurs. Women will get new liturgical roles (and what could they be if they cannot become priests), and all that. The Catholic Faith will be pretty much lost.
Do you really think that we will be free from religious buffoons like Fr. Rosica under Francis? No — Rosica will become the norm; new brownshirts to serve the Master. This means, of course, that what is going on with CCD will be subject to increasingly harsh attacks; watch out for local bishops who will next try to stop the voices of the laity.
This is why it is so vital to support the few bishops and cardinals that are actually Men, such as Cardinal Burke, Abp. Cordileone, Bishop Morlino, Bishop Sample, Bishop Finn, Bishop Olmsted and a few, very few, others. Certainly pray for Bishop McElrioy, but from his record, it is not difficult to see that he is likely to become another field commander for the Zombie-Liberal army.
St. Christopher, can I add Bp. Ricken to your short list?
The Bishop was central to finally approving recognition that the Apparition of our Lady of Good Help. And, Bishop Ricken has said the TLM, although it is unclear if he is in the same camp of Tradition as his Bishop Morlino.
But, Bishop Ricken seems worthy to be added to the Good Bishop Short List.
St. Christopher, virtue is in the middle. Women should have a part in the Church but not to the extreme. They should not and cannot be priests as the Lord Jesus did not ordain his own Immaculate Mother, and St. John Paul II settled that issue for all time — the Church DOES NOT have the authority to ordain women as priests. Although I prefer not to hear women as lectors, I was influence to get involved in the pro life movement by a female doctor who spoke from the ambo — either after the homily or after the Mass, so there is a time and place for women to speak as long as it does not go against the GIRM for the newer Mass. It would be inappropriate for a Traditional Latin Mass, Extraordinary Mass, but women can have stands for such things in the hall or outside for such Masses. We need to be careful that we do not go too far to the right or the left on these issues. Praying to the Holy Spirit for discernment is something we all need to do and be willing to follow God’s will for us whatever that is.
Great comments Ann T. I enjoy your wisdom that you share here. God bless you.
Pews are largely empty in Western Churches because it has already gone to far to the right on these issues.
Yes, it’s has already gone ‘right’ off the deep end into that which is no longer Catholic.
Um no, it has gone right off the pews because the faithful do not accept the teachings coming out of Rome. That by definition means that the doctrine is nullified.
“…That by definition means that the doctrine is nullified.”
By the definition of one who doesn’t understand what doctrine is maybe. Good grief. The people don’t determine doctrine friend, as much as they may like. No kids running the candy store here.
All we know so far is that McElroy has advocated AGAINST enforcing Canon 915 and that he has publicly supported Cardinal Kasper’s desire to permit divorced and remarried Catholics to receive Communion. In short, he supports ignoring Canon Law and softening the Church’s stance on the indissolubility of marriage. For those who relish the idea of the Catholic Church becoming more Protestant and conforming Herself to the world, that would be good news. To those Catholics who put the honor of God before the praise of men, this is just a more outspoken version of the kind of bishops we’ve had for the last 20 years or more. How any Catholic who takes their faith seriously can feel good about this is incomprehensible. And if you connect the dots, it becomes obvious where this self-hating type of Church governance comes from: The top. The current administration in Rome is the last gasp of the artery -hardened liberals who have tried to derail the Church of Christ since Vatican II. The biological solution and the orthodoxy of the younger generations of priests points in one direction: When this generation of Catholic leaders passes, a new generation is in the wings that will restore the Church to Her mission. And how do we know that the Church has strayed from Her mission? Simple. Look at those who are rejoicing at the “new” way of governing the Church by Francis and his like-minded prelates.
Poor bishop Vasa. He must feel lonelier than ever at the California Catholic Conference.
Pray for all our bishops. Bishop Vasa is a hearty holy soul and determined in his defense of the Faith. God bless him and all those who defend Christ’s teachings handed down from the first apostles to the apostles of our time.
Amen Alice and Stanley, Amen……Archbishop Cordileone, Bishop Barber and Bishop Vasa and many holy Priests “ring” the belly of the beast right now. Keep praying that hearts and minds will come out of the darkness with their steadfast leadership.
The Church is crumbling, and there will only be a remnant left. The churches will NOT be full, even with crazies, because they will also stay away. Look at how low the turnout at papal audiences have become, and that is becoming the norm for Mass attendance since Pope Francis was elected. The three bishops whom the article mentions are red hot liberals. The only ones they will be mean and nasty to are the conservatives and traditionalists. The gates of hell are attacking the Church. Just today I read where the VATICAN ridiculed a film, which Jewish people helped make which portrayed Pope Pius XII in a positive light. Well, attempting to canonize Oscar Romero, I image the Vatican will eventually raise Fidel Castro and Che Gueverro to the same state. What a fine mess we are all in because of Vatican II.
Pilar, Not because of V II, but because of many bad (but not all) Cardinals and Bishops.
They do not adhere to Sacred Scripture and the CCC, and they do not teach accurately and completely.
Their actions and inactions prove that – they do not really care about Saving Souls only about the temporal.
” My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge;
because you have rejected knowledge,
I reject you from being a priest to me.
And since you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children. “
DAVID, your quote from Hosea is spot on. But thanks to VII, those in authority are using some of the weaker parts to facilitate the aura of pastoral:
There are only 5 or 6 sentences in the entire 16 documents that require clarification by the Magisterium – but they are important.
The Most Reverend Bishop Athanasius Schneider – “Vatican II Must be Clarified” (June 27, 2013)
This combined with +Kasper’s open admission that VII documents contain certain compromise formulas reveal pretty clearly that the breakdown today has a great enabler:
Cardinal Walter Kasper made a stunning statement in the pages of L’Osservatore Romano this past Friday. In offering some reflections on the challenges facing the Church and the continued (perpetual) problem of the “true implementation of Vatican II”, Kasper, speaking with reference to the documents of the Council, stated:
“In many places, [the Council Fathers] had to find compromise formulas, in which, often, the positions of the majority are located immediately next to those of the minority, designed to delimit them. Thus, the conciliar texts themselves have a huge potential for conflict, open the door to a selective reception in either direction.” (Cardinal Walter Kasper, L’Osservatore Romano, April 12, 2013)
I think that its time again to post some of the issues that the SSPX have brought to the table, how problematic they have also contributed to the crises we face in the church, after all, the schismatics and heretics seem to think they know alot of the V2 yet neglect to take the rod our of their own first, so before they can judge, they first must fix what separated them in the first place!
We could threaten to point out the problems with Mormons, Abeca, but that will not fix the problems endemic in VII. We could look to atheists and say, take the rod out of your eye, too. But that will not fix the hijack of VII by way of the compromise formulas implanted therein. We could even take a look at the Man on the Moon and insist that he become as bright as the sun – and stomp our foot and shake our curls to make our point – but that STILL will not remove the ambiguities/novel concepts in VII.
But go ahead and distract away. That is all you seem capable of doing in addition to making empty threats (empty because you could trash every organization from here to Botswana and it STILL won’t clarify/remove the compromise formulas in VII.) and conversely inviting people to tea. The baddies within the Church will rather thank you for your help in creating a sideshow so that they may continue to interpret with what you call ‘bad will’. Bad will, Abeca, that was what caused the compromise formulas to be put in the VII documents in the first place. Hellllllo.
As to – …they first must fix what separated them in the first place! – DUH. The why behind the continued difficulties between the Society and the Vatican is precisely due to the ambiguities in VII. Something even Bishop Athanasius Schneider is courageously speaking up about, Abeca. Connect the dots you yourself write.
Ann Malley, what about the GIFTS of the Holy Spirit in Vatican II, what have you to say about them?
…I’ll leave you to extol VII, YFC.
AM, you are like a dog with a rag in its teeth. Give it a rest, We are not discussing that ever again.
Mormons dont post here adding more to the confusion like your like do. So Ann M make better arguements. Your insults to assume that we are just concerned when ive posting here for years shows you are incompetant to understand the reality of those who truly do. Take your advice and give it up.
Nobody has to add to the confusion, Abeca. The documents are doing that for themselves with the language and new concepts inside them – concepts being used by those who *want* to take advantage and *are*. Pretending everything is holy and okay doesn’t make it so. There are REASONS folks like Bishop McElrioy are promoted. And you will forever be confused if you don’t look to the ‘why’.
And ‘concern’ – even years of it – that stops short of recognizing a root cause when it is repeatedly shown to be the problem is rather a moot concern. For it falls short of the problem and then cries help. It says I don’t understand why this is happening. But increasingly, it appears the individual does not want to know why these things are happening. And really doesn’t care why. That’s not concern, Abeca.
So make some argument outside, “Look. Over there! It’s a purple giraffe causing confusion. A camel with an unregistered hump! Don’t you go messing up the inside of the house you bad intended giraffe! Or ‘I’ will get you!”
The house is still a mess with hidden traps beneath the strewn papers. And – oh my – the children are falling through the floor, their souls lost. But don’t anybody say clean the house, remove the traps, or or else Abeca will threaten you or distract by pointing out the window again and again.. but then complain about why kids are tripping all over and hurting themselves.
“….AM, you are like a dog with a rag in its teeth. Give it a rest, We are not discussing that ever again.”
And you have the rag over your eyes, Anonymous, tied on good and tight. So tight it appears to be interfering with healthy circulation. You should be grateful that anyone would venture to take it off.
I don’t care what you think of me or the Catholic Church. I don’t care what “the Society” or the Moonies or the Rastafarians or the Baptists or the Lutherans or the American Independent Catholics or any of the other cults, sects and non-Catholic denominations think of me or the Catholic Church.
You picked your church now leave us alone.
…you don’t even seem to care what Bishop Athanasius Schneider thinks or what Cardinal Kasper is showing you reality is regarding the basis by which so much that you seemingly object to is perpetrated lawfully. You don’t seem to want to understand how it is that German Bishops are seeking to push that which is against the Faith by threatening schism while basing their assertions on ambiguous novelties in VII documents.
You do not behave as one who loves the Church, Anonymous, but rather loves being thought of as right. Especially by yourself. You may want to see to it…. then again, I don’t think you much care what the reality of what the Catholic Church teaching has always meant either.
You pick blindness so your whining about what others actually see is rather foolish.
Ann Malley, I think you are being intentionally stupid. I think you write what you do to try to get a rise out of people. I do not think you are sincere in the slightest. I am sure I am not the only other reader who is just plain sick of it.
I love the Church but I don’t have a lot of patience with sh** disturbers.
Nobody is bound to seek ‘your’ patience, Anonymous. But it is obvious that you love the status quo. And that, friend, is what gets a lot of stinkies left under the carpet. At some point, however, the smell is too bad for even those who consider themselves faithful to cover up.
That said, you may want to take your issues up with misbehaving, ill-interpreting clergy. If things were as they should be there would be no stinkies to disturb. But it would seem you want to keep the piles firmly ensconced. . Hence…
“…I do not think you are sincere in the slightest. I am sure I am not the only other reader who is just plain sick of it.”
What is so different about this appointment?
Well educated from “respected” secular institutions of the highest caliber (and tuition)
Warm, fuzzy, smiling
So conscious of the public eye, so airbrushed for the cameras
So vocal about the poor, so silent about the unborn (save the de rigeur lip service)
So unwilling to enforce anything
So willing to seek public approval and favor
So loved by those who hate the Church
Well, there IS one thing different. At least this time the Vatican didn’t go scraping around looking for a candidate with a Hispanic last name. Instead, they are pandering to a broader base.
Joshua, your comment sounded a bit racial, don ‘t you think? Let’s be clear that in many dioceses of California people with Hispanic last names are, or are almost, the majority of people. In LA for instance it would be unlikely that the Archbishop would not have a Hispanic name. Most Priests in California have to be fluent in Spanish to serve their parishioners. We need Priest that are fluent in about 20+ other languages to serve other parishioners, depending on the locale. You must not live in California?
Joshua you sound correct. Lets pray that the lay faithful will win his heart and give him a change of heart. Hes up in age, so he may be set in his ways. Well lets pray and act when called for. The lay faithful will be most influencial because we pray that God empowers us.
If all was well in this Church, the only second language that any priest would need to know would be LATIN!
I agree. Priests only need to know 2 languages – their own English vernacular (in USA) and LATIN.
No big deal.
According to US immigration laws legal immigrants are required to know basic English.
Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 –
– – – requires employers to attest to their employees’ immigration status;
– – – made it illegal to hire or recruit illegal immigrants knowingly;
– – – legalized certain seasonal agricultural illegal immigrants, and;
– – – legalized illegal immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously with the penalty of a fine, back taxes due, and admission of guilt; candidates were required to prove that they were not guilty of crimes,
hat they were in the country before January 1, 1982,
and that they possessed minimal knowledge about U.S. history, government,
and the English language. ”
Bishops and the Catholic Church should NOT participate in breaking just immigration laws, or
enable immigrants to break immigration laws.
Bishops and the Catholic Church should NOT violate Doctrine of the Faith in the CCC 2241 –
which states immigrants MUST Obey the law, and assist in carrying (NOT CREATING) civic burdens.
Latinam mortuam languge quo nulla est sapientia. Et qui loquebatur ei in ceremoniis pronouce plaga patria esset agnoscere iubent. Facit pro synonym magna scientia, tamen.
Really, “Ball of Wax” (“Pila Cerae”), “Latin is a dead language, and there is no wisdom [in it]…(et al.)? ” (“Latinam mortuam..) I guess this is a lame effort to condescendingly mock Catholics who revere their tradition. It comes off as a shallow sneer.
Besides your Latin having numerous spelling and grammatical errors, you don’t know that much. You don’t really have to be a Latin Catholic, which is our tradition for nearly 20 centuries, in fact until as recently as 1968: Luther, Zwingli, and other revolutionaries felt like you: So just abandon all tradition and become a secular atheist, another name for much of (though not all) modern Protestantism.
Latin is the best language for international communication within the Church, because it does not change.
Latin is taught in all the best schools today including secular Ivy League schools.
Parents should encourage their children to take Latin classes.
The Church’s Latin is not the same as Classical Latin. According to the priests who translates the Vatican documents into Latin, there are only about 8 people left in the world who know Latin well enough to translate it like he does. He teaches Latin, I think, trying to keep it going.
Google Translate Latin. It completely changes on translation back to English.
Basically it said: Latin is a dead language. The way it’s spoken now ceremonially would not be recognizable to native classical speakers. It’s great for legal terminology and scientific taxonomy.
In every Latin mass I’ve been to, it’s more sung than spoken. You can follow along because you have rote knowledge of the English.
Languages come and go. When they lose their ability to communicate and be understood, they lose their value. Who is the Latin mass speaking to? Ghosts from 4th Century?
It’s modern in terms of Christianity anyway. If tradition is that important, Aramaic or Greek would be more primary.
Watch it, Joshua: if you criticize the Bergoglio status-quo, you are now a racist. [=Shut up, shut up, shut up!]
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t San Diego pretty weak in attracting new vocations? If so, one can certainly make the argument that liberal bishops of this persuasion are proven vocation-killers. Why is the Church leaning on the “self-destruct” button?
You are criticizing his lack of vocations in San Diego before the announcement is even official? Do vocations somehow work in time travel in your diocese?
McElrioy will be like Cupich; offensively liberal. And, his appointment adds strength to a very weak, and poor, Catholic administrator Cardinal Wuerl (“The Girl”).
Whiny, simpering, and oh, so, Liberal, Wuerl lends serious doubt to his even being Catholic. In a Diocese so central to the Faith, Wuerl is a walking, talking scandal to the Faith. He refuses to withhold communion and completely ignores Canon 915. His argument, espoused by other weaklings, like Abp. Cupich and many others, that you “do not want to politicize the Eucharist” is nothing more, or less, than the mantra of the Democratic Party on forbidding free and open abortion: “I don’t believe in it, but who am I to impose my belief on others”?
What then, Cardinal Wuerl and Bishop McElrioy, does Canon 915 mean? Seems pretty straightforward, except to your political philosophy (no, you lack religious credibility). Withholding communion means that someone is doing something awful, but you do not think that having, or supporting, homosexual sex, or abortion, or fornication, or pretty much anything to do with sex is wrong. If it is, then there is lots of sin, and the need for confession is paramount; and then we are back in the Middle Ages (and you really hate that, don’t you). This guy will be a complete and utter disaster. Very few will want to embrace of lifetime of McElrioy’s Catholicism, so expect vocations to be eliminated.
This is such depressing news for us! Who advises the Pope?! Just reading that this bishop wrote for America magazine tells you something. We can pray for a miracle of conversion. Please come Lord Jesus!
Pope Francis removed Cardinal Burke, and put Cardinal Donald Wuerl in the position of making recommendations for Bishop appointments for the USA.
McElroy is a social justice political Democrat, who adheres to heretic Bernardin’s position of the ‘SEAMLESS GARMENT’ as given at Fordham University, 1983 –
whereby all things are equal and deserve our undivided attention such as Abortion, tax policy, employment generation, welfare policy, etc.
Bernardin did this to give cover to Democratic politicians who supported Abortion.
Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) stopped Bernardin’s heresy in its tracks with:
“Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion, General Principles”
QUOTE: ” 3. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia.
For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion.
While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment.
There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.” UNQUOTE.
Cardinal Donald Weurl who was appointed by Francis to make recommendations for US Bishop appointments; Blasé Cupich, and now Robert McElroy – all support SACRILEGE against the Body and Blood of our Lord –
Holy Communion for those who obstinately choose to continue committing mortal sin.
1 Cor 11: 27-30; & Mt 7:6
None of them completely adhere to the Doctrine of the Faith and Sacred Scripture. They lie to the people about being Pastoral; it is deceitful to state one can be Pastoral without adhering to Doctrine.
It is never Pastoral, Charitable, or Merciful to condone, or confirm the Mortal Sins of others.
Pope Benedict said: ” But we wish to make it clear that departure from the Church’s teaching, or silence about it,
in an effort to provide pastoral care is neither caring nor pastoral.
Only what is true can ultimately be pastoral.”
Fatima spelled it all out, we are seeing it unfold before our eyes.
When the congress gave in to worry about too many Americans who owned a yacht they made law to ruin the industry.
The off-shore firms filled the orders for yachts while the skilled US craftsmen who fashioned these functional works of art and industry were put out of work.
If people want an elevator for their car seems strange, think of the first fellow who wanted his toilet inside his house.
“Catholic Friends in San Diego, regarding our new bishop: do not have a PIA: Pain In Advance. We do not know what he will do or what we are dealing with. Let us keep our heads. And keep our eyes on Jesus.” – recent Facebook post by Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse
Klaus, we know that
1) McElroy supports SACRILEGE.
2) We know that McElroy will actively involve himself in the prudential politics of the Laity – using his personal beliefs rather than the Doctrine of the Faith.
3) He will not encourage the Literate in his Diocese to read at home both Sacred Scripture and the CCC – so he can teach political errors.
Why because McElroy has publically told us so on several occasions ? – By public statements and by deeds.
Well, this appointment, dear progressive Catholics, will be a boon for the traditionalist (SSPX, CMRI, other independent Catholic chapels) in San Diego which I understand have a growing attendance.
This is because when you put a false thing (progressive liberalism dressed in Catholic robes) beside a true thing (what the Church has always taught and believed), the fake thing is exposes. Well done, Pope Francis and his accolytes. The distintegration continues.
And Pilar is right; just as people have ceased seeing a value to attend this pontiff’s daily address and are voting with their feet, the ripple effects are emanating outward.
It is a mortal sin to miss Mass on Sunday. Independent Catholic Masses do not fulfill the Sunday obligation.
….now that’s a nice catch-22 to keep folks supporting and enabling destruction from within. Thankfully, one’s Sunday mass obligation can be met at traditional chapels when needs must.
There is never a need.
Not for you, Anonymous, because you honor and adore sacrilege and abuse and seemingly take no issue with Our Lord’s admonishment that it would be better that one be drowned with a millstone tied about their neck than to scandalize little ones….
You most certainly are not taking the words of the Church on the matter.
Ann Malley, I do not honor and adore sacrilege. I oppose sacrilege. You attend sacrilege.
You support those who scandalize the faithful and who woo the doubting out of the Church.
Of course I take the words of the Church on the matter.
If there is no Catholic Mass available, one is not sinning by not attending Mass. So there is never any need to attend an illicit Mass.
…go ahead and continue the rhetoric that even the Vatican doesn’t use, Anonymous. It does not render you holy, but rather untruthful and/or guilty of intentional slander.
If standing firm in what the Church has always taught is now scandal, then there is indeed a problem which cannot be ignored. Much like the crises in the Church can no longer be denied or ignored. So cry scandal to those who are scandalizing, not those who are merely responding to that reality and could, very well, be in straights of which you know not. (Interesting how seemingly all manner of ‘reaching out’ to souls in order to spread the gospel is acceptable, save for the very method that has given Holy Mother Church centuries of Saints and Martyrs. Your vitriol is astounding.)
That said, there is absolutely no doubting out of the Church, Anonymous, but rather leadership that would feign defense/upholding of the Church while acting in direct opposition to Her. If you cannot see that, then that is your issue.
What you take is an unnecessarily hostile attitude borne of rhetoric and scare tactics, Anonymous. And your continued assumption that others are seeking to lead some out of the Church only points to your own obsessive fear regarding doing as much. Why? Whatever the reason, try to own it and then you won’t feel threatened to the point of calumniating Catholics.
So why is it OK for you to slander and calumnize me but I can’t make a logical deduction based on statements by the Head of the congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith which says that their priests are excommunicated.? Do they take communion at these illicit Masses you go to? Is it sacrilege for someone in mortal sin or who has been excommunicated to take communion?
If I was hostile, it is because you committed a grave sin against me. Try treating people the way Jesus teaches you to and you might get less friction.
And thanks for the youtube video which says in the desciption:
“The Society of St. Pius the Tenth priests and the “teaching sisters” accompanying the pilgrimage are not in full communion with the Church in Rome.”
NEWS FLASH – THERE IS NO NEED FOR the SACRAMENT of CONFESSION –
McElroy knows more than JESUS, and the Doctrine of the Faith.
Mt. 7:6; & 1 Cor 11:27-30
CCC: 2120. 1457; 1490.
– Quote from McElroy – Jan 26, 2015,
“I’ve always favored the Greek Orthodox position” in which a person can receive the sacrament of marriage only once, but a divorced person who is remarried in a civil ceremony is welcome to receive Communion, he said. “The church cannot begin with exclusion.” – McElroy
National Catholic REPORTER (Fishwrap)
McELROY supports SACRILEGE – Holy communion for those who choose to continue to live in the state of Mortal Sin.
He is doing the devil’s work.
One can not let some who choose to continue live in Mortal Sin receive Holy Communion, – – – and not ALL others who choose to live in Mortal – – – – – after all that would be Discriminatory and Exclusionary.
If these evil Bishops win, there will be no need for the Sacrament of Confession.
Not only that, he also supports placing already vulnerable, traumatized children with adoptive homosexual “parents.” A GREAT injustice.
“When the Archdiocese was instructed by the CDF to end its policy of placing children for adoption in same-sex homosexual households, Msgr. McElroy helped find the solution: San Francisco Catholic Charities would no longer supervise “direct placement” of adopted children to anyone. Instead, it would send staff members and funding to an organization – Family Builders by Adoption – that helped “lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender couples” adopt children .(2) For the next two years, Catholic Charities provided close to $250,000 each year for two of its staff to assist with adoptions at Family Builders.” Marian T Horvat
I just read where Cardinal Mahoney is asking the Vatican to ‘enforce’ hand holding during the Our Father. The liberal bishops have been tinkering with the Mass, so now it is no longer a God centered operation. Because this bishop elect REFUSED to obey Pope Benedict’s wishes concerning giving Holy Communion to ‘public sinners’ (call them apostates, confused Catholics, or scandalous Catholics, if you like these terms better), it shows that more downgrading the sacred and sacrificial nature of the Mass will continue. Our Lady of Fatima said that the Church would suffer, and as a result, the diabolical disorientation is in full swing.
I have heard similar things, “Father Karl” but did not know that anything went to the Vatican. Hand holding is crazy; masses that contain it should be avoided.
Of course, Catholic bishops almost universally disobeyed Benedict after Summorum Pontificum, aggressively weeding out priests that wanted to learn to say the TLM. So, it is of no surprise that someone wants to mandate hand-holding.
All Catholics should refuse to do this, if bishops try to impose it. And, People, withhold your weekly contributions to your church if it becomes too liberal with the Mass. There should be no handholding at all at Mass.
“Catholic Friends in San Diego, regarding our new bishop: do not have a PIA: Pain In Advance. We do not know what he will do or what we are dealing with. Let us keep our heads. And keep our eyes on Jesus.” – recent Facebook post by Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse”
– With all due respect to Dr. Morse, what the bishop has written and spoken
about in the (recent) past is not encouraging.
With all due respect to the brilliant Dr. Morse, I submit that we are not having a PIA (pain in advance); we are having a PIP (pain in the present). We are having a PIP because we’re already seeing enough about Bishop McElroy’s own writings and views to be credibly alarmed–and also because Francis appointed him, which alone tells us all we need to know. Time will prove whether our pain is justified in the way Bishop McElroy treats the many good and faithful San Diego Catholic apostolates that are about to come under his jurisdiction, such as Catholic Answers, and including Dr. Morse’s own organization, the Ruth Institute.
You are not here to judge the bishop. You are here to live the Catholic Faith and to follow Jesus. You don’t have to if you don’t want to. It is a free choice, but you do not have a choice about who is going to be the Bishop. This was not given to you. But do not sin because you do not like the choice.
Kirk Kramer, From your 3 March posting of the man’s position on abortion, all I can say is for such a learned man with a Doctorate in Moral Theology (from Stanford a secular university not from a real Catholic University) he sure seems to have a warped and disillusioned mind on Catholic Laws, Morals, and Doctrine. God save the Church! (please)
Bruce, Bishop McElroy has a doctorate in POLITICAL SCIENCE from Stanford. His moral theology degree comes from a catholic college. I’m sorry you heard incorrect information.
Alas. Catholic Answers is under his jurisdiction! What now for them? Let us pray.
I remember a nun where I went to grade school, who referred to people with weak faith as “wishy, washy, willy nilly, namby pamby, jelly fish”. Maybe she was predicting the modern Catholic Church.
The last two paragraphs seem like they were written by a Northern California resident who hasn’t been in San Diego in a while. In the City, the Democrats hold a registration lead. They hold a majority on the City Council. Three of the five Congressional districts have Democratic incumbents [two are safely gerrymandered Republican]. Two of the last three mayors have been Democrats.
San Diego may not be as ‘liberal’ as other California cities. On the other hand, it is not as rock-ribbed Red as it was a generation ago.
Painful as all this is, it is necessary for the purification of the church and the world. God never said that his precious remnant coming out of the the great tribulations would be a vast majority. Protect and support the faithful priests and bishops. Gather yourself together, as the the first disciples of Christ did at Bethany. Let the apostates inherit their own crumbling estate. Follow the traditional teachings, practices and social structures of the church before the confusion of Vatican II. In this way you can avoid falling into error. No one is obliged to obey or follow heretical leadership, even if such leadership should falsely occupy the chair of peter. Look nether to the left or the right keep your eyes and Jesus and all will be well with you. Rejoice the final battle is drawing to its inevitable conclusion and the Era of Peace is near. Satan’s minions know this is their last play. They are terrified of God’s justice .
Some excellent advice, Thomas Anderson. I would only make a few changes.
Protect and support the faithful priests and bishops.
Let the apostates inherit their own crumbling estate.
Follow the accurate teachings, practices and social structures of the Church.
In this way you can avoid falling into error.
No one is obliged to obey or follow heretical leadership.
Look nether to the left or the right keep your eyes and Jesus and all will be well with you.
Rejoice the final battle is drawing to its inevitable conclusion – but we do not know the day or hour.
Satan’s minion are at work. They are terrified of God’s justice .
The only way most will have of knowing good Bishops and Priests, from the bad is to read both the Bible and the CCC (dark green cover 1997).
This is the only way we can be assured of truth and accuracy in these times.
Pray and sacrifice.
Oh dear, another sedevacantist: “No one is obliged to obey or follow heretical leadership, even if such leadership should falsely occupy the chair of peter.” So, by implications, Paul VI, JPI, JPII, Benedict, and Francis “falsely occupy the chair of Peter”. Hence the papal throne is vacant. So says Anderson Thomas.
There are several good sites that explain how a Bishop of a diocese is chosen. Each Bishop is expected to have a small number of Priest prepared to be considered for episcopal consecration. Those names are vetted by an office in the Nuncio when there is an opening, or projected opening. There is also a formal analysis of the needs of the diocese, generally led by the Vicar General. At some point, the Nuncio usually sends three names, and files, to the Congregation for Bishops in the Vatican. That Congregation reviews all of the nominations for Bishop from all over the world and forwards the names of three candidates to the Pope, who chooses one for the job. It is fair to say that the Congregation gives deference to the members from the country involved. So yes, the national members have some influence. It is important to keep in mind that the last 80 new bishops in the U.S. were appointed by Pope Benedict from a cadre of pretty conservative candidates. It was also the conservative Bishops that elected Cardinal Dolan to head the USCCB. We might also keep in mind that the New Bishop of San Diego was appointed Auxiliary to Archbishop Levada in San Francisco, who later went on to head the Inquisition department in Rome. Now retired, I think he is still a member of the Cong. for Bishops, but not sure. Appointment of a diocesan Bishop is not an impulse decision by the Pope.
I watched the USCCB Conference when Dolan was elected. If I were a Bishop, I would have had to vote for him also. The other choice was Bp Gerald Kicanas – which would have been a disaster. Sometimes we all have to vote for the lessor of the evils. It was the first time in the history of the USCCB when a sitting officer (Kicanas) was not elected as Conference President.
YFC, there is an appointed Commission who makes recommendations to the Pope for Bishops. The US Papal Nuncio makes no recommendations.
Bishops Conferences have no influence, nor are they consulted.
Cardinal Donald Wuerl makes the recommendation from the USA, because Francis appointed him to the official Roman Curia for this purpose.
PETE, I would add that the diocese where a bishop or archbishop is to be appointed is also recommended by the diocesan priest-senate. These are usually “senior” priests, pastors of parishes, monsignors, heads of the deaneries, and “people with clout.” Usually a “terna”—three names—are recommended by this body. The US papal nuncio forwards this to the Cong. Bishops, and usually it is a rubber-stamp from that point on.
JP2 and his Congregation for Bishops were known to be loathe to reject all the names on the terna, so often the same progressive distintegrationists were de jure (that’s Latin,”Pila C”) recommended and appointed. This is how Card. Mahony came back to L.A., after tenures in Fresno and Stockton: All his buddies from Camarillo days were now in control of the priest-senate, and all the Manning and McIntyre people were “retired out”. Here in SF Arch, the priest-senate insisted on Levada and then George Niederauer after John Raphael Quinn was forced out (Levada was a bit of a compromise: Niederauer was a man after their own heart).
However, BXVI was known to start rejecting all names on the ternae and select his own candidates, which is where we got Michael Barber and Abp. Cordileone.
My own experience with members on the priest-senate formerly in Phoenix and LA dioceses were that some of these people were—putting it as charitably as possible—objectively quite corrupt, both morally and financially.
Good grief, I do not know what to believe about these bishops or Pope Francis any more I am hanging on to the Holy Scriptures and Catholic Catechism with dear life. God help us.
Yes Ann T i feel the same way. Can you please join me and write a letter of concern with all these facts with what the church actually teaches and send to this Bishop and send copies to our Pope. We must do our part, fast and pray. After that at least our Lord will know we are doing our part. The rest is in His hands.
If people weren’t gossiping would have a problem?
Stick to not only the Bible and CCC, but also traditional Catholic beliefs, morality, teaching, prayer, virtues, the Holy Spirit, the Blessed Mother, your Guardian Angel, and the Father and Jesus Christ.
There are some prophecies that say to consecrate yourself to the Immaculate Heart.
Do not over react and avoid those who are insolent and attack the Holy Faith.
Watch out for sins of the tongue. Flee those who indulge in them.
I did an hour of Adoration before the Blessed Sacrament the other day with prayers to all of the above that you mentioned, Anonymous, from the Liturgy of the Hours and good Catholic prayer books. I guess I need to keep it up along with the Rosary. I have been saying the Rosary while walking around parks and while in my car in light traffic.
As far as writing the Holy Father, I do not know enough about the above bishop to write a sensible letter nor am I in his area, Abeca Christian. I do not think I would be of much help.
Thanks, though, for the advice, Anonymous, it sounds good to me, and thank you, Abeca, for your concern too.
You are a good Catholic.
Well, Anonymous, any good I do comes by the grace of God. On my own I am a mess.
Right on Anne T…its by the grace of God. Aren’t we all a mess without His graces and help? This life throws us stones, throws us all sort of bad things, even good ones too. This human condition of ours is certainly complex. As much as we study about the saints and their lives, we still do not fully comprehend our human condition, we know that sin does exist and that we are all sinners. In some people, we may never fully understand why they choose to commit heinous sins, yes they have free will. If some people are enslaved by their sins, then how is it free will? That is one I have to keep pondering at. Like I noticed that sins of sodomy, pornography etc etc…those enslave the person and causes them to be in a deeper trance of spiritual warfare. It takes a great deal of prayers even years of praying and fasting to undue the harm of certain sins. We must not allow it to consume us either because it too in itself can trap us and make us dysfunctional. That is why we need to persevere, prepping the self, for heavenly gains. Prayer and fasting…..all done in love and humility. Fearing the Lord….
Nevertheless, I have done what I can to back Archbishop Cordileone, and I have signed a charitable petition asking Cardinal Dolan to please back out of being the head of the St. Patrick’s Parade in NY as it seems to be getting out of hand — so my last post was not a total cop out. We must choose our battles, carefully and wisely.
Anonymous, please explain your “but” –
Quoting you: ” Stick to not only the Bible and CCC, but also traditional Catholic beliefs, morality, teaching, prayer, virtues, the Holy Spirit, the Blessed Mother, your Guardian Angel, and the Father and Jesus Christ.”
Apparently you have NOT read the CCC.
Each of the things you posted about are ALL in the CCC – therefore there are no “BUTS”.
Your advice is not as good as some people think.
Read Sacred Scripture and the CCC. Know the Faith and live by it.
Yes, they are, of course.
I can’t imagine CATHOLIC ANSWERS receiving any sort of censorship, from even the most liberal of bishops, as they seem to excellently follow all of the teachings of the Catechism, use great and totally responsible intellectual skills, and follow our Holy Father and all of the recent popes in their pastoral practices. But I wonder if CALIFORNIA CATHOLIC DAILY might befall the same fate as Michael Voris did with his REAL CATHOLIC TV having to remove “Catholic” from its name like they did in the Archdiocese of Detroit. Only time will tell.
Relevant to this discussion – a 2008 essay for a distributist blog by Univ of Dallas professor John Medaille:
Pro-life or just anti-abortion?
Kirk Kramer, that article violates the Catholic Faith.
This is the correct definition of distributivism in the Catholic Faith (and McElroy knows this or he should not be a Priest/Bishop).
CCC: ” 2411 Contracts are subject to commutative justice which regulates exchanges between persons and between institutions in accordance with a strict respect for their rights.
Commutative justice obliges strictly; it requires safeguarding property rights, paying debts,
and fulfilling obligations freely contracted.
Without commutative justice, no other form of justice is possible.
One distinguishes commutative justice from legal justice which concerns what the citizen owes in fairness to the community,
and from distributive justice which regulates what the community owes its citizens in proportion to their contributions and needs. ”
In addition “Thou Shall not Covet thy Neighbor’s goods”;
‘Thou Shall not Steal”.
All Catholics and good Bishops adhere to Sacred Scripture and the CCC which contains the Doctrine of the Catholic Faith.
Ted B, thank you for the link to this article. It points out the value of words to describe our positions on certain issues. No all, obviously, but many of us tend to be anti-abortion, but not pro-life. I think the Church calls us to be pro-life, which includes being against abortion but includes all the other things the article speaks to. Being pro-life includes being pro-family, fighting for good educational systems and outcomes, good wages for working people, being against assisted death programs, and much more. Very interesting article, and worth the few minutes it takes to read it.
“good educational systems and outcomes” ha we have neither because of the government school system and the corrupt teachers union
“Bob One” your viewpoint is vile and a red herring to all Catholics. The seamless garment theory is worthless and does nothing but pander to the Zombie-Left, that is those that see no difference between what they consider low pay, a failure to provide for free this and that, and abortion.
The net result is: no true Catholic outrage over abortion and over homosexual sex and marriage. People are told that, as all is the same, nothing can be fought against until all is fought against.
And, you know who voices this garbage? Why, pro-homosexual marriage people, and pro-abortion rights people, and pro-communion for divorced and non-annulled people — all those. What a complete load of horse manure.
St. Christopher, I am none of those “who voice this garbage”! I am anti same sex marriage, anti abortion, and anti communion for those who are. Your accusations are a load of horse manure!
Bishop MCELROY needs to read the CCC – Doctrine of the Faith
regarding giving Holy Communion to those who choose to be in the state of Mortal Sin.
He is aiding and abetting in their sin – as a remote participant.
And teaching others by bad example.
And here is the PROOF:
CCC: # 1451, 1415, 1355, & 1868.
Scared Scripture which is the speech of God in entirety (CCC 81),
and the ‘Catechism of the Catholic Church, second edition’ which contains the Doctrine of the Faith are the two most important books in the Catholic Faith.
The personal opinions of others are immaterial.
Kirk, you do bring up a good point.
McElroy wrote a paper in which he stated the USA is the wealthiest Country in the world.
The USA is living off BORROWED money.
The Federal Government is over $18,000,000,000,000.00 (over $18 TRILLION) dollars in debt.
Many State Governments are BILLIONS of dollars in debt. For example: the State of CA is currently over $424,000,000,000.00 (over $424 BILLION) in debt.
Here is a link to the world debt clock for comparisons of Countries.
(It is not completely up to date because it states that the USA is $14 Trillion in debt not over $18 Trillion, but it will give a good benchmark of the facts as of 2012.)
Japan, South Korea, Russia, Mexico, China, Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Saudi Arabia, India – – – – ALL have an external debt ratio to their GDP much lower than the USA.
A worthy defense of Pope Francis’s restatement of traditional Catholic teaching on capitalism and the “free” (HA HA) market – and therefore relevant to Bp McElroy’s writings on the same subject:
It is also worth recalling the defense of Catholic morality in this area offered by Cardinal Wyszynski of Poland, who was imprisoned for three years in the 1950s for resisting the Communists:
“A new religion: money and wealth. Its dogmas: unlimited economic freedom, free competition, the division of capital and labor; its mercenaries are the laws of supply and demand and price mechanisms. Its morality: the lack of any moral superiority of human capital and labor or good production. Profits are its only good deeds. Its altars: a great plant, machinery, tools, cartels, syndicates, banks, where greed is satisfied by the price of human life. The final goal: blessed be the rich. Be rich at all costs, whoever can, and as soon as they can! This is the god of this world, a hurried capitalism.
DOCTRINE of the FAITH on:
COMMUTATIVE JUSTICE “without which no other form of justice is possible” – CCC – 2411.
Against any forms of COLLECTIVISM – CCC – 1885.
For SUBSIDIARITY – 1883, 1885, 1894, 2209.
There are 191 paragraphs on WORKING. (There is no Church teaching on able bodied persons who refuse to work to get assistance. In fact, just the opposite.
When are Bishops in the US including McElroy going to take a position on this laziness? )
CCC: QUOTE: ” 2427 Human work proceeds directly from persons created in the image of God and called to prolong the work of creation by subduing the earth, both with and for one another.
Hence work is a DUTY: “IF ANYONE WILL NOT WORK, LET HIM NOT EAT.”
Work honors the Creator’s gifts and the talents received from him. It can also be redemptive. By enduring the hardship of work in union with Jesus, the carpenter of Nazareth and the one crucified on Calvary, man collaborates in a certain fashion with the Son of God in his redemptive work.
He shows himself to be a disciple of Christ by carrying the cross, daily, in the work he is called to accomplish.
Work can be a means of sanctification and a way of animating earthly realities with the Spirit of Christ. ” UNQUOTE.
When was the last time you heard something about these from the USCCB?
YFC, Apparently you didn’t read the article! You should do that before you correct someone. Yes and according to the article he has a doctorate in political science too. That is a mighty fine degree to have for one who is suppose to be a V2 bishop isn’t it. Yes, politics has got to be one of the most valuable qualifications these days for a V2 bishop. Next step may be Francis’ replacement!
Anomynous, You stated it is a mortal sin not to attend Mass on Sunday. You can not possibly be a Roman Catholic that follows tradition can you? Afterall the V2 church many years ago altered church teaching and opened the flood gates for members to fulfill their sunday obligations on Saturdays. Here I thought you were a screaming liberal!
Of course I hope everyone knows that I am speaking facetiously.
“…Afterall the V2 church many years ago altered church teaching and opened the flood gates for members to fulfill their sunday obligations on Saturdays.”
Excellent point, Bruce.
Bruce, apparently YOU did not read the article. It clearly states that his moral theology doctorate is not, as you purport, from Stanford, but instead is from the Greg in Rome. Maybe you should read the article before you comment, and then read it again when you are corrected.
Bruce, yeah the Church put in a vigil Mass that fulfills the Sunday obligation.
Anonymous, it does not matter where someone got their degree(s), only that he adhere to Sacred Scripture and the Doctrine of the Faith (CCC) completely – and teach accordingly.
Why do people here have such a need to be mean?
Well there goes any hope for the Mass of All Times in San Diego, I pray for the people and priests of St. Annes in San Diego it is an F.S.S.P. parish only and I pray that the new bishop will leave them alone!!!
Bergoglio is hell bent on destroying what is left of the Church.
Janek, it’s POPE FRANCIS to you!
God has affirmed Pope Francis in the sight of all his foes.
This is no reflection on Pope Francis.
But – – – there have been 12 evil Popes, including but not limited to Alexander VI who was a Borgia and the father of Lucrezia and others,
and Benedict IX who was a playboy and so bad that there were riots in Rome.
These were also elected Pope.
Just because someone has been elected Pope does not mean that he is not a sinner.
Just because someone has been elected Pope does not mean that he is always right.