The date had been scheduled for a small consistory, comprising midday prayer and the announcement by Cardinal Angelo Amato of some beati due to be promoted to saints. There had also been a little gentle buzz for some time in the Roman Curia about the Holy Father announcing one or two important changes then, perhaps near the top of the administration, but these kinds of rumours circle like the seagulls around the Vatican’s Belvedere: they come round frequently, make a bit of noise and go away again. In other words, as in most places, nothing happens until it happens.
There was no indication that this day was going to be any different. It was also a holiday, and although the rest of the Curia was enjoying a rest, the few people around the person of the Holy Father, including myself, were to be on duty in the Apostolic Palace’s Sala del Concistoro to welcome him as he went to pray with the cardinals present in Rome and to go through the short ceremony.
As a Prelate of the Anticamera, a kind of aide de camp, who assists the Holy Father’s principal guests and makes sure everything goes according to plan when the great and the good come to call, I met the Holy Father before the ceremony began. As usual he came down by a private lift from his apartments with Archbishop Georg Gänswein and Mgr Alfred Xuereb, his two secretaries. He looked well but tired and greeted us in the usual way. As this was a day of particular solemnity, the Master of Ceremonies was present. Archbishop Guido Pozzo, the then Almoner, was also there.
Once the Holy Father had been readied for the Liturgy of the Hours, we all followed him into the Sala del Concistoro to pray with the waiting cardinals. We sang midday prayer for the memorial of Our Lady of Lourdes (February 11) then Cardinal Angelo Amato made his announcement regarding those soon to be promoted to the altars. So far so good.
The Holy Father then took the floor. This was the first time I had sat in a consistory, so I had no idea if this was normal or not. He spoke in Latin, so a greater effort than normal was going to be required by all of us – Italian being the normal language of the Curia – so a little strain was evident as we tried to grasp where he was going.
Within seconds it was clear what was happening. This was no ordinary address. He did not speak about the consistory and the soon-to-be saints, or a few changes in administration, or the anniversary of the Lateran treaties, or the end of the historic dispute with Italy. Instead, he made history. I felt my stomach turn over as I realised that here before us was something not seen for centuries: the voluntary resignation of the Roman Pontiff.
It seemed that, in slow motion before me, an assistant television cameraman put his hand to his mouth in a cartoonlike gesture of astonishment, the monsignor sitting next to me started to sob quietly, Archbishop Gänswein’s shoulders seemed to drop. The cardinals leaned forward to make sure they understood precisely what was being said and I found myself checking that my jaw wasn’t dropping open. Then there was silence.
After a pause, the dean of the College of Cardinals, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, stood up and took the floor. I don’t remember precisely what he said, but it was brief, calming and apposite. It was clear he had been informed beforehand and had prepared a few words. By contrast, the faces of the cardinals showed that they had had no warning of what was to come that morning.
After Cardinal Sodano had saluted the Pope we followed the Holy Father back out of the hall. The choir attempted to sing an exit song of some kind, but it all seemed a little out of place now. I looked round to see the cardinals gathering in a small circle where we had left them. They looked at one another in stunned silence.
The Pope had announced that he would step down some three weeks hence, but it already felt like the end. We followed him to the lift that goes up to the private apartment. Normally this is done in quiet dignity. This time it was in silent shock.
At the lift he turned to greet us. Our usual parting words – “Until tomorrow, Holy Father”, “Have a good lunch, Holy Father” or “Happy feast!” – simply didn’t materialise, I don’t remember being able to say anything to him at all. We shook his hand in silence or mumbled something inaudible. As I held his hand I thought he looked very old and very pale. Then he was gone. I turned to one leading layman in the group, shook his hand and said: “Ora, cosa facciamo?” (“What do we do now?”) He gave no reply to this.
From that day on until February 28, the last day of the pontificate, Pope Benedict’s schedule just got faster and faster. It seemed that everyone wanted to come and say goodbye to him. Extra meetings were scheduled, even in the evenings, so that he could see everyone who wanted to come. But up until that point it felt almost like a death foretold.
On the second to last day of the pontificate, there was the Pope’s final general audience in St Peter’s Square. Here was another thing that had never been seen before and one of the most moving things I have ever witnessed. Instead of the usual crowd of pilgrims, curious tourists and visitors, here was all of Catholic Rome in the square, come to say farewell to the Pope. In my role that day I sat behind the Holy Father and had the same view as he had out across the square. It was a cold, bright and beautiful day. The audience started normally enough in the circumstances. The Holy Father gave us his farewell speech and we all listened.
I suddenly realised that instead of the usual movement of the crowd – with distracted singing, the waving of flags and a festive mood – I saw every face as far as the other end of St Peter’s Square turned attentively towards Pope Benedict. Here was a huge group of people – at least 100,000 of them – listening to every single thing the Pope said with the greatest attention. They listened carefully, they applauded every couple of sentences, and they attempted (successfully, I think) to communicate something that a pope has never known in his lifetime: a message of deep gratitude and an affectionate farewell. This is something that pontiffs only receive when it’s too late, when they’re already gone, when they’re being eulogised.
Given the great, self-denying service that this shy Bavarian gentleman had given to the Church, it has since felt to me that he deserved to see and feel a little of the great gratitude of many people throughout the world for his having taken up the great cross of leadership in the Church, for having persevered under the heat and sweat of the day, and having even chosen wisely the right moment to put that terrible burden down.
On February 28 I joined many colleagues from the Secretariat of State in the Courtyard of St Damasus at about 4:30 in the afternoon. The Holy Father came down to the courtyard, waved a farewell to us, gave us his blessing. We applauded him in a subdued but supportive way as he was driven from the courtyard, and it was with very mixed feelings that I went back up the stairs to my office to watch on television the rest of his journey into exile.
Although a very poignant moment, Rome rarely looked more beautiful in the grey-blue wintry twilight as the helicopter taking the Holy Father to Castel Gandolfo was filmed from another aircraft. The man who appeared briefly afterwards on the balcony at Castel Gandolfo looked so haggard that none of my colleagues expected him to last many more weeks.
Happily, though, I was later able to see Benedict XVI, well again, one more time before I left Rome. Some six months after his resignation, in August of last year, he asked to see me at the little Vatican monastery which is his new residence. He wore a loose white cassock without the sash, and walked with his usual stick, but he was well and relaxed, and looked happy surrounded by his old friends: his considerable library of books. He also had his colour and his smile back.
We talked about Edinburgh and about some of the times we had worked together, especially his state visit to Britain and its various moments, including his meeting with the Queen, which had started the visit so successfully. It was good to know that there was a happy conclusion to the Calvary that I had seen Pope Benedict mount the day he had announced his decision to leave the papacy.
I sometimes ask myself: in 100 years time, how many people will be reading the corpus of writings left by Joseph Ratzinger? But I think already there is little doubt that the bold and wise manner of his departure will assure Benedict XVI a special place in the history of the popes.
By Most Rev Leo Cushley, Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh
This article first appeared in the Catholic Herald on 7/2/14
God Bless Pope Benedict for his service to the Church and for his courage in making a bold decision to retire. His retirement was certainly the right decision for his health and for the good of the Church. Undoubtedly, he will be canonized as a saint someday.
I, too, was elated when Cardinal Radzinger became pope. God bless him. I believe he will go down in history as a great theologian, and perhaps a doctor of the Church. I think he just did not have the stamina to stay on and did not want us to suffer through that so soon again. His health seems to be better now, with more rest.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, (Pope Benedict XVI) was one of those responsible for writing and organizing the
“Catechism of the Catholic Church” which was approved and promulgated by Pope John Paul II in 1997.
In the 2000+ year history of the Church, there have only been two universal, worldwide catechisms for the ENTIRE Church –
the Catechism of the Council of Trent (aka Roman Catechism) of 1566 AD;
the Catechism of the Catholic Church (aka CCC) of 1997 AD.
Please watch Dr. Scott Hahn in this short video on the CCC.
“What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”
Excellent comments Dottie.
Do you miss him yet, I do. Less confusion unlike these days. From don’t do it like rabbits to do it like rabbits. What the heck do rabbits have to do with the faith ?
We miss your Father Benedict
The EAGLE & the Storm Trooper
Even Pope Benedict was Involuntarily Drafted in to the German anti aircraft service late in WW-2 (and Deserted when he could, and unlike many Survived) – and the Irony of His Strong Moral Principles against pandering to Homosex Perversions is highlighted by the story / Link of the one man who Refused to ‘hell’ when expected.
Although I know not to trust ‘wiki’ for anything regarding the Gaystapo, the photograph linked article speaks for itself.
It shows the launching ceremony (with Homo-Nazi stiff arm ‘hell’ salute by virtually all present, except one man – possibly August Landmesser) of the German Sail Training Vessel ‘Horst Wessel’ (named for Homo-Nazi Terrorist Storm Trooper Wessel) – and His Refusal to join the crowd by folding his arms.
In an ironic twist of fate – this same Sail Training Vessel was seized by the Americans after WW-2 and Re-Named USCGC EAGLE.
When I served in the USCG – Homosex Behaviors like storm trooper / terrorist ‘Horst Wessel’ engaged in were prohibited.
Now – those who Refuse to Salute the Gaystapo Agenda – on the EAGLE and throughout the Military – are the ones Targeted.
The Evil seed of Spartan Pederasty & Perversion rose to control the Homo-Nazi reich, and was Defeated by America & Allies – only to be Adopted by the Abomination and their Gaystapo Thought Police for the same (no longer) Military.
The motto of both now actually translates the same – “Pander or Perish”
To me, this was one of the saddest days of my life. I heard the news while travelling, and I knew things were not going to go well. The worst day was, the day Pope Benedict stepped down (or retired). I was quite depressed and nervous, and my mind would not focus on the tasks I had to perform. I pray for Pope Benedict every day by name when I celebrate Mass. I also pray for Pope Francis, but I only wish Pope Benedict had not retired. There are many rumors around concerning exactly what happened, but I fear that God is punishing us for our lack of faith, and for not needing what Our Lady of Fatima asked for. The Catholic Church is experiencing a diabolical disorientation, and this has caused many Catholics to lose their faith. Let us daily beg God by our prayers and sacrifices that we too may not lose the precious faith given to us by Almighty God.
Father Karl beautiful comments. I felt the same way. I agree. Thank you for your prayers for us. God bless you.
Wasn’t Ratzinger part of the Rhine that flowed into the Tiber?
And lest we forget the lightening that struck St. Peter’s Basilica that same February 11th. Even the secular press covered this phenomenon. Say your prayers folks.
Kristin, there is a lightning rod on the top of St. Peter’s Basilica which protects it from lightning strikes by sending the lightning into the ground away from the building.. I think that happens quite often. The rod might be at the top of the cross.
Anthony Socci posts an article and photo that also appears @ Rorate Caeli blogspot that, recently (2/11/15), the Papal General Audience, usually given at Piazza S. Pietro and always well attended, was witnessed by a handful of visitors in a nearly empty S. Peter ‘s Square. He says that this phenomenon, previously rare if never-occurring, is becoming quite frequent. Mundabor blog incisively addsthat when the Pope and Church become like the world, the world and church members lose interest, since it (the Church) loses the meaning for its existence.
I saved and enlarged the picture posted on Rorate Caeli and the Pope is not present in any of the windows or doors. However, I agree with your post.
Any Pope who caters and gives different and CONFLICTING statements to different audiences is not sincere, but has his own agenda.
Truth is truth no matter whom you are talking to.
Truth does not change with the audience.
This Pope causes and promotes confusion, rather than TRUTH.
This Pope adds to Scandal by appointing heretical speakers and leaders to the 2014 Synod such as: Kasper, Danneels, Forte, Baldisseri. and Wuerl.
To further his agenda, this Pope wants bad Bishops appointed in the USA, as evidenced by his appointment of Donald Wuerl to the Commission on Bishops and the resulting appointment of Blasé Cupich in Chicago – both of whom support Sacrilege.
This Pope promotes Sacrilege against the Body and Blood of Jesus by promoting giving Holy Communion to those who choose to continue living in the state of mortal sin (adultery & homosexual).
This is PROVEN by his insisting that Paragraphs # 52, 53, 55 which did not get the required 2/3 vote at the 2014 Synod be placed on the agenda for the 2015 Synod.
Jorge Mario Bergoglio, S.J. was not the best choice, although I suppose there could have been worse.
Cardinal George on POPE FRANCIS –
” The question is raised, why doesn’t he himself clarify these things?
Why is it necessary that apologists have to bear that burden of trying to put the best possible face on it?
Does he not realize the consequences of some of his statements, or even some of his actions?
Does he not realize the repercussions?
Perhaps he doesn’t.
I don’t know whether he’s conscious of all the consequences of some of the things he’s said and done that raise these doubts in people’s minds. ”
‘This Pope promotes Sacrilege against the Body and Blood of Jesus by promoting giving Holy Communion to those who choose to continue living in the state of mortal sin (adultery & homosexual).”
This is very misleading.
The Pope has NOT promoted this.
Yes, Pope Francis has. By his personal appointments to the 2014 Synod,
and ETC his actions as stated in the factual post of the Anonymous of Feb 15, at 5:08 am
this Pope has proven by his OWN actions – which speak louder than his words –
that he supports the Mortal Sin of Sacrilege – receiving our Lord while purposely choosing to continue committing certain MORTAL SINS –
such as ADULTERY – sexual activity with the valid spouse of another, and also homosexual acts.
It is absolutely FALSE that one can be PASTORAL (or charitable or merciful) and condone SACRILEGE and SCANDAL, and the Mortal Sins of others.
– – – – –
Pope Benedict XVI explains “PASTORAL” very well in his “LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS”
Regarding “PASTORAL” this applies to ALL MORTAL SINNERS.
QUOTE: ” But we wish to make it clear that departure from the Church’s teaching, or silence about it, in an effort to provide pastoral care is neither caring nor pastoral. Only what is true can ultimately be pastoral. The neglect of the Church’s position prevents homosexual men and women from receiving the care they need and deserve “,
– The same is true of others who wish to continue committing various mortal sins including adultery.
Pope Francis can not continue to support some people being allowed to commit Sacrilege and Scandal,
while others not being permitted the same.
Truth is the same for all.
And this purposeful neglect of truth for all by Pope Francis is a sin.
1 Cor 11:27-30.
Pope Francis is promoting DIVORCING ‘Doctrine of the Faith’ from ‘Pastoral actions’.
In TRUTH, this is impossible.
One must be a LIE when they conflict with each other.
For example ‘Sacred Scripture’ and ‘Doctrine of the Faith’ clearly state that it is adultery to have a continuing sexual relationship with the (Sacramental) valid spouse of another.
But Pope Francis is promoting giving Holy Communion to those who wish to continue having a sexual relationship with the valid spouse of another which is Sacrilege, and encouraging the continuation of adultery.
“Thou shall not commit Adultery” – GOD’s Commandment
Ex 20:14 ; Deut 5:18.
“Thou shall not covet thy Neighbor’s wife” – GOD’s Commandment
Ex 20:17 ; Deut 5.20.
Teachings of JESUS about divorce and remarriage – Mk 10:6-12;
Teaching of JESUS about adultery, mercy, and required repentance – “Go and Sin NO more”. Jn 8:11.
Condemnation for receiving Holy Communion unworthily.
1 Cor 11:27-30.
(Teaching about homosexual acts:
Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10; Jude 1:7.)
What is TRUTH?
Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Magisterium,
or the desires (based upon his proposed “pastoral” actions) of Pope Francis ?
One is TRUTH, the other a LIE. Take your pick.
As Card. George says in the cited article, then if the Pope doesn’t want to place in doubt the bond of marriage nor “end” the Catholic doctrine of the gravity of sexual matter outside of traditional Catholic marriage, he needs to clarify his meaning on the matter. He has, rather archly, not done so. This seems to be what the 2/15/15 Anonymous comment, and also Maddie, was saying.
Deliberate ambiguity, and a studied silence on this grave matter, is causing the confusion, and as S Thomas More tells his accusers in Robert Bolt’s play (“A Man for All Seasons”), “Silence gives consent. ” (Qui tacit consentire.) PF’s silence on the synod ‘ s assault on traditional teaching of Christ effectively proclaims his consent. It is a scandalous silence for the supreme Teacher of the Faith.
So Anonymous, just what is the Anonymous post of February 15 at 5:08am in error about ?
His actions including those him promotes speak louder than his words.
Any time a leader that is supposed to be an authority and looked up to, publically promotes and gives heretics or evil doers, such as Kasper, Danneels, Forte, Baldisseri, Wuerl, Cupich, and now Volpi the publicity and support of his Office – the Pope is giving credibility to their beliefs whether you like it or not.
In addition, he purposely surrounds himself with evil, and expects everyone else to accept those evil doers.
The Pope does support giving Holy Communion to those who wish to continue committing adultery – the mortal sin of having a sexual relationship with the valid spouse of another.
I’m not sure if you are wrong because you are mislead, or whether you are wrong because you choose to lie. Either way, you are spreading untruths about our Holy Father, and it is not acceptable.
Anonymous, you can wave your hands all you want.
But prove your statements. Others have proven theirs by the Pope’s own actions.
We are all waiting with baited breath to hear your explanation.
Even the Pope has to be held RESPONSIBLE for his OWN actions,
and his own personal appointees (or remove them from Office if he is unaware of their goals and beliefs).
You can NOT separate the Doctrine of the Faith from Pastoral Practice.
The latest is the Pope’s appointed Commissioner Fr. Fidenzio Volpi was just found guilty in a Rome Court of defamation and lies against Franciscan Friars and Manelli Family.
Do you think Pope Francis will apologize for his appointee’s lies and defamation and reinstate the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate ?
This is what happens when the Pope surrounds himself with evil for purposes that are not TRULY pastoral.
The burden of proof is on those who claim (falsely) that Pope Francis has promoted giving Holy Communion to those who persist in mortal sin. An acceptable proof would be a quote from him. It should be public and in his capacity as Pontiff. But we can consider something said privately as in an interview.
Interpretations of the Pope’s actions are not admissible.
Anonymous, according to your post of Feb 16, at 6:37pm
you do not believe that anyone should be accountable for his own actions.
This Pope has a habit of saying one thing and doing another,
and saying one thing to one group and the opposite to another group.
The Pope’s actions speak louder than his words. Because actions speak the truth.
His personal appointees and his requirement to force the inclusion of the 3 paragraphs for consideration by the 2015 Synod, that did not get the 2/3 vote at the 2014 Synod, are his own choice and his own actions.
Appointing pro-Sacrilege Donald Wuerl to the Commission that recommends new Bishops is just one more disaster.
You can NOT DIVORCE the ‘Doctrine of the Faith’ from ‘Pastoral Practice’.
True Pastoral care must be in full accord with the teaching of the Church.
Nothing can be Pastoral without TRUTH.
It is not Pastoral, Charitable, or Merciful to condone or affirm anyone in their choosing to continue committing Mortal Sin.
It is a Sacrilege to give them Holy Communion. 1 Cor 11:26-30
& CCC 2120.
By doing so, one becomes a participant or remote participant in the sin – depending on the action. Not to mention the Mortal Sin of Scandal. CCC 2285.
Only what is true can ultimately be pastoral. The neglect of the Church’s position prevents men and women who choose to live in Mortal Sin from receiving the true pastoral care they need and deserve. – The pastoral care that will Save their Souls.
His actions are one thing. What you think his actions say “louder than words” is something else. Your imagination is adding “information” to what actually has occurred.
Calling Cardinal Wuerl pro-Sacrilege is also an interpretation and a sinful judgement.
Here we go again: the almost-psychotic accusations of others “lying”, “spreading untruths”, or being purposefully misleading; which successfully avoids the questions raised.
It must be a lonely and harrowing task to be defending a wayward Pope and bevy of prelates (we have had others in history), on the one hand, against Christ’s own tradition in the Scriptures and His revealed plan for His Church, on the other hand..
It was a terrible day for me. Could not believe our dear Pope resigned. Now Coucil/Consilium Vatican II reigns supreme. I pray daily that Benedict lives a long life, for once he is gone there will be no restraint on Vatican innovations.
The videos of Pope Benedict this morning at the Consistory tell a lot about why he decided to retire. From outward appearances he has become somewhat frail. He may have thought that he didn’t have the strength to do what needed to be done to cure the Curia. Sometimes people just get tired. Others struggle through, as did Pope John Paul II, but who wants to see anyone go through that agony? Now that one Pope in modern time has done it maybe others will follow? By the way, if you haven’t seen the Youtube of the Consistory this morning, it is available on the Vatican website.
Pope Benedict XVI is not the firest Pope to resign his position.
Pope (Saint) Celestine V (1294 AD) resigned after 5 months to become a monk. Among the only surviving edicts he issued was confirmation of the right of the Pope to abdicate.
Pope St. Celestine V was born Pietro da Morrone in 1215A.D. He came from a poor peasant family from the Molise area in central Italy. He joined a Benedictine monastery when he was 17 years old and then became a hermit. He guided a community of hermits resembling a Cistercian Benedictine rule.
After the death of Pope Nicholas IV the see of St. Peter was vacant for over two years. Pietro da Morrone was finally elected pope in the year 1294. It is said that it was “by inspiration” that he was elected. Pietro heard of his elevation to the papacy with tears but with prayer he obeyed the voice of God sacrificing his own personal inclinations. Multitudes of people flocked around him with welcome, especially the “Spirituals”. He was the only pope to be crowned twice. First by the order of the King Charles of Naples and then to be repeated in a traditional form a few days later. Pope Celestine created twelve new cardinals, a bishop and 5 monks. During his very short papacy his Curia fell into extreme disorder. The affairs of the State weighed heavy on him. It is rumored that he was persuaded to resign by one of the cardinals named Cardinal Gaetano, who was well skilled in all arts of Curial diplomacy. Cardinal Gaetano vigorlessly denied it. Pope CelestineV resigned on December 13 ,1294 .
There is a prevalent mindset today that the “magisterium” (note quotes) is absolute and superior now in the church: something that was completely opposite to BXVI and his modus operandi. Of course the true Magisterium is entirely “subservient” to Scripture and Tradition (Dei Verbum, n. 10); it must “guard” the Sacred Deposit of Faith, “holding fast to this Deposit;” the “Teaching Office is not above the Word of God, but serves it.” The point is, today many think that “…If they [the Pope and bishops] get together and decide on a new way of doing things, it is then the teachings of the magisterium.” (Bob One, post, 2/15, “The Teachings of Jesus Christ”). This misunderstanding is entirely understandable if you read the ambiguous passages of Lumen Gentium (especially n. 25). Of course this is dramatically untrue.
We are heading into a very evil time, with a coming synod that Card. Baldisseri says will “evolve” new teachings, a matter forbidden by Vat. I, and will likely split the Church on sexual morality and marriage and on so doing even reject Vat II. (Gaudium et Spes, n. 47-52). May conscientious Catholics look to BXVI and his knowledge of what actually rules the Church, namely Scripture and Tradition of Our Lord, be our true guide.
Steve Phoenix’s post is correct. And this is very important if some high ranking clergy lead others into sin by their words, examples or scandals.
CCC: ” 890 The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ.
It is this Magisterium’s task to preserve God’s people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error.
Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates.
To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church’s shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The exercise of this charism takes several forms.
CCC: ” 86 Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant.
It teaches only what has been handed on to it.
At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully.
All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”
Read your Catholic Bible and CCC folks, so you will know when high ranking clergy are leading you to Heaven or to Hell (by their approval of your mortal sin and their participation in Sacrilege against Christ). 1 Cor 11:26-30.
Except that you mistake the magisterial role with the entire role of the Bishops and Pope. In fact, the Pope is also to be followed in matters of discipline and governance, even though he does not enjoy infallibility in these matters. The Pope does more than safeguard the deposit of faith, my friend, and his proclamations on these issues must be obeyed as well.
YFC, ONLY in matters of FAITH and MORALS,
(not details of science, not details of economics, not details of food production, not details of distribution of goods, etc),
and ONLY when he does NOT contradict Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium’s Doctrine of the Faith (as contained in the CCC).
The Pope’s and Magisterium’s main mission “which the Lord entrusted to them is – to GUARD the DEPOSIT of the FAITH”. – Apostolic Constitution “FIDEI DEPOSITIUM”. Pope John Paul II, 1992.
We have had 12 bad Popes before including the Borgia. They probably will not be the last.
MAC, you are incorrect.
“D. Unity: reason for primacy
Vatican Council I affirmed that the authority of the Pope, and the resulting obligation to obey him, took in ‘not only matters that pertain to the faith and morals, but also matters that pertain to discipline and government of the Church throughout the whole world.' It is what we call universal power (applicable, it is clearly understood, to ecclesiastical matters only). The power which the Pope receives from Christ has its own internal statutes and lays upon the successor of St. Peter a very grave moral obligation.” https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/papab3.htm
Never follow anyone into Mortal Sin.
Jesus never promised that ALL Popes will get to Heaven.
Remember that there have been 12 corrupt Popes (including the Borgia), and they probably won’t be the last.
No one is objecting to the Pope’s authority to govern.
No one is objecting to the Pope’s authority to appoint who he pleases.
HOWEVER – his actions show his TRUE intentions.
Undermining Sacred Scripture and the Doctrine of the Faith causes confusion.
Confusion is the work of the devil.
It is Schizophrenic behavior to say one thing to one group, and conflicting statements to others.
Cardinal George regarding Francis: ” The question is raised, why doesn’t he himself clarify these things?
Why is it necessary that apologists have to bear that burden of trying to put the best possible face on it?
Does he not realize the consequences of some of his statements, or even some of his actions?
Does he not realize the repercussions?
Perhaps he doesn’t. I don’t know whether he’s conscious of all the consequences of some of the things he’s said and done that raise these doubts in people’s minds. ”
Personally, I do not believe that Francis is stupid or schizophrenic.
I believe that he has an agenda that violates Doctrine of the Faith – the Doctrine of the Faith that he is REQUIRED to safeguard.
Amazing. Stand with a pontiff in contradiction of Dei Verbum and Lumen Gentium of Vat 2. Amazing.
So, we should follow bishops and pontiffs when their governance is clearly flawed, such as during the abuse crisis, for example. Their leadership is “absolutely binding in all matters.” Preposterous, amazing, and untrue.
Steve Phoenix, you made up that quote, from what I can see. Where did anyone say “their leadership is “absolutely binding in all matters”. I certainly never wrote that.
However, the Pontiff does deserve obedience in matters of discipline and governance, as Vatican I decreed. “Vatican Council I affirmed that the authority of the Pope, and the resulting obligation to obey him, took in ‘not only matters that pertain to the faith and morals, but also matters that pertain to discipline and government of the Church throughout the whole world.'” https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/papab3.htm
YFC when you renounce sodomy you will have reason to post on this board
Canisius, I have said nothing about sodomy or homosexuality, so instead of pretending I am the problem, how about you look within your own heart.
My heart and conscience are quite fine and clear….you are the problem… CCD editors print all of this and quit with editing
It is typical now to confuse two different issues—infallibility, reserved in narrow circumstances to the pontiff (cf. Ch. IV, Pastor Aeternus [PA], Vat I),—- with on the other hand, the proper obligation of obedience, which however only binds to an ecclesiastical authority if it is not a command against God and His revealed will (S. Thomas Aquinas, II-II, Q. 104, Art. 5, answer). God’s revealed will is clearly evidenced in Scripture and Tradition; it is knowable to all, not only to the “wise and clever” (Luke 10:21), but to even “the merest children”; the true Magisterium cannot contradict that tradition; also, it “cannot disclose new doctrine” in so interpreting SS & Tradition (Ch. IV, PA, Vat I).
Quoting from Ch 3 of PA (‘the obligation to obey..”not only in faith and morals but also matters that pertain to discipline and governance”) has now become the favorite pastime of those who would excommunicate tradition itself: it would also seem to make every bishop a pope in his own fiefdom. Every wandering episcopal office, as it dissipates endless orders and pronouncements, is somehow invested with its own tiara (A former disgraced bishop of Phoenix was fond of “glaring down” people, declaiming imperially: “I AM the Church in Phoenix.”). However, as Aquinas observes, choosing between the dictate of an emperor and that of God, one must serve God.
The rhetorical quote “absolutely binding on all matters” was a reference to the well-known tendency of the Tudor kings to claim full secular and religious authority over their “subjects”, not to any other post.
Steve Phoenix, I appreciate the clarification, thank you. I also agree with much of the rest of what you wrote. In that infallibility is a charism that only applies to a very narrow swath of the activity of the Pope or an Ecumenical Council sitting with the Pope, there is a tendancy to either allow infallibility to creep over into non-infallible areas, or alternatively, to say that whatever is not declared infallibly has no import for the faithful. Neither are a correct understanding, as you point out.
Thank you. No personal “shot/shots” ever intended..
By the way, Vat I and “Pastor Aeternus” nowhere invest bishops with a claimed absolute authority in regards to “discipline and governance”: I guess no one is reading original sources, but just pasting from their favorite search-engine.
It is a clever mis-statement to present Vatican I, Pastor Aeternus (“PA”), as stating that the duty of one “to submit, not only in matters which belong to faith and morals, but also … to the discipline and government of the Church “ (Ch. III PA) necessarily requires obedience to the bishops or a conference of bishops. PA actually is speaking of the obedience and primacy of the Sovereign Pontiff. If a bishop or bishops deviate from Scripture and Tradition (see Dei Verbum, Vat II, n. 10), violating their office, there is no such duty.
Obedience to the bishops, whether individually or as a bishops’ conference, may or may not be due—if for example, the bishop (or the “Bishop of Rome” for that matter) defines a novel doctrine (such as Card. Bernardin with his “seamless garment” ethic, relativizing abortion) ; or for example when Bp. Patrick J. McGrath of San Jose diocese revealed prima facie heresy when he stated regarding the historical basis of the Scriptures:
“While the primary source material of the film is attributed to the four Gospels, these sacred books are not historical accounts of the historical events that they narrate.” (Feb 19th, 2004, SJ Mercury News, Opinion).
We have plenty of examples of deviant teaching from various parts of the “magisterium” (with a small “m”). Now, it is clear that there is a concerted effort underway to excommunicate tradition as well as traditional believers by cynically positioning oneself as an adherent of the Magisterium in the center.
The CORRECT teachings of the Church can be found in
1) a Catholic Bible and
2) the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, second edition”.
These gifts from the Magisterium (capital M) teach truth.
Jesus gave us these to protect us from evil and from wolves in sheep’s clothing.
When ANY high ranking Clergy deviates – BEWARE.
CCC: ” 2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized.
It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.”
Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others.
Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing. “
DAVID V God bless you. I agree with you.
By the way, on Ash Wednesday, Vatican blogspots have reported that only about 9,000 attended the Angelus announcement of Pope Francis. This is after the previously noted Feb 11th (Our Lady of Lourdes) pitiful gathering of about the same numbers, on a major Marian feast: in the past pilgrim groups from all over the world would throng Piazza S Pietro on this occasion.
The last year certain numbers were reported, two years ago, under Pope Benedict XVI, there were over 50,000 who attended on Ash Wednesday. Photos one year ago show a crowd perhaps to be 25,000 plus.
So we see the direction that this present great pontificate is going. Everyone is voting with their feet.