The following comes from a March 26 story in the National Catholic Reporter.
During what one participant described as an “explosive” meeting, the San Francisco archdiocese’s Council of Priests in mid-February addressed Star of the Sea pastor Fr. Joseph Illo’s decision to phase out altar girls as well as the designation of the parish as an oratory-in-formation.
Retired Sulpician Fr. J. Michael Strange, who lives at St. Stephen Parish in San Francisco, “proposed this agenda item and raised the issue for discussion because many of his constituents and parishioners at St. Stephens and elsewhere have contacted him regarding Fr. Illo’s recently announced policy of admitting only altar boys at Star of the Sea Parish,” according to a draft of the Feb. 12 meeting’s minutes.
NCR obtained a copy of the minutes from an anonymous priest.
Strange told council members that “he found other aspects of Fr. Illo’s parish bulletin explanation [in regard to] this new policy troublesome, as was the fact that Fr. Illo did not consult his deanery to see if this was a wise and prudent move prior to implementing this policy, noting consultation is one of the purposes of a deanery.”
According to the minutes, Strange said he and other priests have had “to spend much time on the issue with parishioners.”
Strange asked “for a decree that altar servers are open to boys and girls in the archdiocese, or that the Priest Council issues a recommendation that Fr. Illo reverse his policy,” the minutes state.
Toward the end of the meeting, then-Auxiliary Bishop Robert McElroy suggested that San Francisco Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone issue a directive stating disagreement with Illo’s exclusion of altar girls, the minutes report.
McElroy, whose appointment as bishop of San Diego was announced March 3, “distinguished between personnel issue and the policy issue,” the minutes say, explaining that personnel issues belong to the archbishop.
However, the minutes continue, McElroy said “excluding girls from being altar servers is ‘invidious discrimination’ and to do this in this day and age in our culture has no justification.”
McElroy “mentioned the Pope recently spoke on this very theme and said ‘to live by exclusion is a corrupting method of living'” and “further stated that if this was just a case of a pastor acting rashly, he could be talked to.”
“But the dilemma, in [McElroy’s] view,” the minutes say, “is that Fr. Illo repeatedly stated in public interviews that he proceeded with the Archbishop’s permission. That was the killer … and that the public perception will be that the Archbishop is in favor of these actions.”
Jesuit Fr. John Piderit, archdiocesan moderator of the curia and vicar for administration, told council members he felt that “in an archdiocese with 93 parishes, having a few that do something different is a healthy thing,” the minutes state.
Cordileone echoed Piderit during closing remarks about the Star of Sea situation, the minutes report: “There are some people in the archdiocese that like worshiping in this way, they like seeing only altar boys on the altar, and [Cordileone] wonders why we can’t have one or two parishes … with this practice, so the lay faithful with this preference have a space to go.”
“Regarding calls for a policy to be implemented, the Archbishop does not want to impose a policy that would restrict a pastor from exercising pastoral discretion in situations where the Church allows such discretion,” the minutes state.
Cordileone also told the council that a Congregation for Divine Worship instruction had “made clear that a pastor can have altar boys only, and highlighted the connection between altar serving and vocation,” according to the minutes.
“The Archbishop did acknowledge that Fr. Illo could have handled the matter much differently and in doing so could have avoided the P.R. [public relations] disaster that ensued,” the minutes say, adding that the archbishop “reminded that this has been the ‘M.O.’ [modus operandi] of the Church in recent times — citing the example when altar girls started. Pastors just started doing it, they didn’t talk about it at their deaneries, they didn’t consult others, they just did it. So there is nothing new in handling things poorly in matters of change.”
The archbishop said he would discuss the council’s concerns with Illo during an upcoming, already-scheduled meeting.
According to a participant in the priest council’s March 12 meeting, there was little more discussion of Star of the Sea, and “the archbishop simply said he had talked with Fr. Illo.”
The Feb. 12 minutes report that Cordileone said he felt he was responding in part to past council discussions on rectory life “and how to promote priests having a more fruitful common life living together” when he accepted the request from Illo to form an oratory in San Francisco.
The oratory, Cordileone told the priests, could be a model for “fostering this sense of common life in rectories,” the minutes say.
According to a May 2014 story in the archdiocesan newspaper Catholic San Francisco, Illo and Star of the Sea associate pastor Fr. Patrick Driscoll were to be the initial residents of what is called a fraternity, the first “step toward the canonical establishment of an Oratory of St. Philip Neri” at Star of the Sea.
An oratory is a “Clerical Society of Apostolic Life of Pontifical Right,” first begun by St. Philip in Rome in 1575, Catholic San Francisco reported. “Its members are secular priests and brothers who live in community without formal vows and carry out pastoral ministry, usually in an urban parish.”
Strange called “the Oratory — as it exists in our archdiocese — a divisive force and wonders if there is an implication that the rest of us are not imparting the true Catholic faith.”
During the discussion, several other priests expressed concerns, including Fr. David Ghiorso, who also brought up the controversial examination-of-conscience guide that had been distributed at the Star of Sea School, as well as the establishment of an oratorian community. He reportedly said he had “concerns about this group doing their own thing” and “running their own show.”
In early February, it came to light that Driscoll had distributed to even young students a pamphlet, “Examination of Conscience and Catholic Doctrine,” an extensive listing of potential sins, including adultery, masturbation, fornication, entertaining impure thoughts and abortion.
Parents and teachers reportedly retrieved the pamphlets. Driscoll and Illo later apologized.
Ghiorso, pastor of St. Charles Parish in San Carlos, Calif., said he “would never vote to invite them into the archdiocese, finds them an embarrassment and thinks they should be returned to their own dioceses,” the minutes said.
Illo was released to the San Francisco archdiocese by Stockton, Calif., Bishop Stephen Blaire, and Driscoll was given permission to join the fraternity by St. Louis Archbishop Robert Carlson.
Dominican Fr. Michael Hurley, pastor of St. Francisco’s St. Dominic Parish, questioned if any council members had visited with Illo about the recent issues. The minutes indicate no responses. Hurley criticized “casting aspersions and making wide sweeping generalizations and recommendations prior to actually speaking with him.”
According to the minutes, Hurley said he “senses that he [Illo] is very pastoral.” Hurley added that he and Illo are in the same deanery, that he had spoken with Illo following the highly publicized events and that he thinks “Fr. Illo feels he is on an island and was looking for advice.”
Responding to Hurley, pastor of St. Cecilia in Lagunitas, Calif., Fr. Cyril O’Sullivan argued that “the onus should have been on Fr. Illo to first talk to his brother priests, especially being new in this archdiocese,” the minutes state. O’Sullivan said Illo should be taught about “where we are in our Church today; if he wants to be pre-Vatican II he needs to be told, ‘We’re not Vatican I, we are Vatican II.’ ”
The minutes say that O’Sullivan said Illo’s “actions were totally disrespectful to his brother priests and the archdiocese” and asked if Illo might be considering the ban of female eucharistic ministers.
Carmelite Fr. Michael Greenwell lauded Cordileone’s “policy of not micromanaging pastors, as evidenced by giving authority to Fr. Illo, even if he might disagree with the pastor,” the minutes said, also noting that Greenwell described parental concerns he’d heard about potential perceptions caused by a pastor wanting “only boys in the program” in light of the “priestly pedophile scandals.”
According to the minutes, Paulist Fr. Bart Landry, pastor of Old St. Mary’s Cathedral Parish in San Francisco, expressed frustration at spending inordinate time “having to respond to angry parishioners,” “putting out fires,” and doing “damage control.”
Archbishop Cordileone’s “support” for Fr. Illo seems at best luke-warm. However, something is better than nothing, especially in San Francisco. One hope that Fr. Illo does not lose heart and reverse his policy.
Not at all surprisingly, Bishop McElroy voiced strong opposition to the “altar boys only” policy. Calling it “invidious discrimination” — a legal term that is wrongly used here — the Bishop certainly sets a poor example for the San Diego Diocese.
And, of course, the girls-chorus of priests whining and wailing about what a poor bastard Fr. Illo is, and why didn’t he get permission, blah, blah, blah. In fact, as the Archbishop pointed out, whenever the Liberals wanted to do something out of line, they just did it, no permission sought or received. Fr. Illo deserves our praise and support. He was not out of line in imposing the policy, as long as Cordileone was informed first (which was done).
Write to the Archbishop and to Fr. Illo, in support of this. Perhaps drop a “cc” copy to Bishop McElroy, too. He is going to be a complete disaster in San Diego (as Abp. Cupich was in Spokane and is turning out to be in Chicago).
“Lukewarm” he says. He tries to give charity yet still insults the holy Archbiship. I hope you wrote the letter to Father and the Archbishop, it may humble you some before you utter more prideful remarks against a faithful Archbishop.
What is insulting and/or “prideful” about making a realistic observation? Even the Holy Father doesn’t shrink from plain speech. Indeed, Pope Francis calls for the faithful to speak freely.
There is nothing humble in pretended humility. Quite the opposite.
Look who’s talking now.
“…Strange called “the Oratory — as it exists in our archdiocese — a divisive force and wonders if there is an implication that the rest of us are not imparting the true Catholic faith.”
Father Illo is a faithful Catholic priest and the other San Francisco fathers would do well by learning from him. He writes out all his homilies so they are accessible to all of us. Read them yourself and you will see why the enemies of the Archbishop want to be rid of this Holy Priest:
Donating to the new Oratory of Saint Neri at Star of the Sea is a good way to fight for the renewal of the Church in California. We sent in a substantial donation and very promptly received a letter acknowledging payment in order to deduce it from our taxes. A very good investment in the future.
Michael Voris with the help of his premium members, within one week raised lot’s of money to support Star of the Sea Parish and Father Illo. A very good investment indeed!
Priests and others can answer their own question/statement on whether their Bishop and Parish Priest is teaching the true Faith.
The TRUE Faith is imparted via Sacred Scripture
and the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” second edition (1997).
Any Seminary that does not use these as REQUIRED texts is not imparting the true Faith.
Any Bishop or Priest who does not encourage the literate Laity to read these at home is not imparting the true Faith.
All Priests and Laity are required to adhere to GIRM of 2011 for the Liturgy of the OF Mass.
#22.3 “No other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority” – V II doc, “Sacrosanctium Concilium”.
The Code of Canon Law is available on the Vatican web site.
Just goes to prove how many wimpy priests there are and how politically correct they want to be.
I have heard how many priests’ councils try to act as the bishop, this seems no different.
Father Illo and his colleague are causing more problems each time they open their mouths.
For him to say that he had to purge girls from serving at Mass “because the future of the Roman Catholic Church is at stake” is hysterical and ridiculous.
The poor man needs a solid psych eval before he does something even crazier…
Fr Illo never said he had to ” purge girls”.
Anonymous you are a liar, and belong with the cry-baby Priests who merely could tell anyone that asked – that it is the choice of the Paster in each parish.
Fr Illo’s job is to close SOTS parish school as it is and import nuns from somewhere and charge tuition of 25k just like the old SOTS HS building that houses a private school that charges 28k a year. That’s what’s going on behind the curtin that has almost all the priests council riled up..
Now explain how the above is such an Orthodox Catholic doctrine. and not a cooked up scheme. .. .
I really don’t understand why a non-believer would be concerned of such matters.
Because practicing homosexuals are out to destroy the Faith !
@anonymous, you have it exactly upside down. Those politically correct dissenting wimps who cave to the secular pressure are the source of the division.
God Bless Fr. Illo and Bishop Cordileone for their courage and may God protect them and show His favor to them..
Where did this so called purge you refer to take place and when? Anon. must be a fan of the politburo.
This Anonymous your interest is not for Jesus by the way you are expressing yourself here but they are for your own prejudges, learn the faith before you speak.
Anonymous gear towards the truth and not what displeases you. The question is “what would Jesus do” and He has already spoken…..now of course we know that not everyone knows what He has taught and spoken but His faithful in the church are speaking up. If you go with the secular, you surely will fail but if you follow Jesus and take up your cross, you will suffer but the rewards are great, Jesus already told us what the reward is. His life, His word, His ways save! For you to speak so dis-pleasurably about Father LLO and his excellency, tells us that you do not understand the faith and there needs to be some growth in your spiritual well being. PAX Christi PS remember our children learn by example and Jesus set before us the greatest witness there is…..His church needs to as well and this bashing of holy priest and Archbishop indicates that there is a strong spiritual battle that wants to destroy the faithful who stand firm on true Catholicism. The message is being heard, even if its from a few of the faithful, the message, all it takes are a few…..
David took down Goliath, why shouldn’t a humble and gentle Archbishop and few priests do the same! We trust in Jesus and wait for His will to be done in His own time! God’s graces set us free and open our eye’s to all the treasures and pearls that He continues to bless us with! May the blind see again soon! We pray for the conversion of all sinners!
It has been said that boys who are altar servers are more likely to want to become priests. If this is so, then are girls who are altar servers more likely to want to become women priests? Did Jesus have any women disciples? Was Jesus setting an example for His future Church?
St. John Paul II clearly stated that the Church has no authority whatsoever to ordain women as priests. Peter has spoken; the case is closed.
Women on the altar……NO!
Does McElroy support women Priests and a woman Pope as well ? ? ? ? ? – so much for his personal “invidious discrimination” definition !
I feel sorry for the Catholics in his San Diego Diocese.
I’ll bet he will NOT encourage Catholics to read Sacred Scripture or the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” at home either.
It sounds like many Priests need to read Sacred Scripture and the CCC in total.
They do NOT know the Doctrine of the Faith.
Their STUPIDITY is overwhelming. I have never heard of such ignorance coming from Priests.
The CCC was promulgated in 1997, at the request of Bishops who attended Vatican II.
Priests who do NOT ADHERE to both Sacred Scripture and the CCC – are the ones who are doing their own heretical and schismatic thing.
Read Sacred Scripture and the CCC folks, it sounds like many will have to teach the ignorant Priests.
Priest not only need to read the CCC, they need to read the Documents of Vatican 2. Talk about caving to the political side of things. Catholics have fallen so far from what the Documents say. Iif they were to follow them, one could only imagine. When those from the pulpit talk as if immigration is more important than what needs to be talked about such as abortion, same sex attraction, cohabitation ect ect that says to that we have many in the religious life who don’t know themselves. God, please save Holy Mother Church.
Give your PRIEST a copy of the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” (second edition, 1997, dark green cover in the USA).
Highlight the following so he can not miss it:
” The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved … and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority,
is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine,
attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. ” – Pope John Paul II, z(CCC page 5).
“….the CATECHISM has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians, and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine,
enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates, lives, and prays in her daily life.” – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg xiv)
I agree MAC and MIKE. You both post excellent comments. This bishop and priests need to read the CCC and the bible, memorize it like they did when the church was in its infantcy. Alot of Catholics do not live the word of God nor do they know their faith but its nothing new, these are the same issues we are dealing with since the beginning. We face these issues just like we had to deal with those in charge who ordain their own priests and bishops without permission. All invalid and illegal. This type of defiance and disobedience is much more deeper, this is just the surface but the root of it all is over looked due to sin and people’s prejudges.
“The Church never takes faith for granted, but knows that this gift of God needs to be nourished and reinforced so that it can continue to guide her pilgrim way.”….. “ Read in this light, the prophetic text leads to one conclusion: we need knowledge, we need truth, because without these we cannot stand firm, we cannot move forward. Faith without truth does not save, it does not provide a sure footing. ….”
“These, then, are the four elements which comprise the storehouse of memory which the Church hands down: the profession of faith, the celebration of the sacraments, the path of the ten commandments, and prayer. The Church’s catechesis has traditionally been structured around these four elements;
this includes the CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, which is a fundamental aid for that unitary act with which the Church communicates the entire content of her faith: “all that she herself is, and all that she believes”. “ – POPE FRANCIS (Encyclical Letter LUMEN FIDEI, 2013)
“In its very structure, the Catechism of the Catholic Church
follows the development of the faith right up to the great themes of daily life. On page after page, we find that what is presented here is no theory, but an encounter with a Person who lives within the Church.”
“It is in this sense that the Year of Faith will have to see a concerted effort to rediscover and study the fundamental content of the faith that receives its systematic and organic synthesis in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.” – POPE BENEDICT XVI (Porta Fidei, Motu Proprio Data, starting with paragraph #11.)
“….. let us ask ourselves if we have actually taken a few steps to get to know Christ and the truths of faith more,
by reading and meditating on the Scriptures,
studying the Catechism,
steadily approaching the Sacraments.” – POPE FRANCIS, May 15, 2013.
“…… sins, including adultery, masturbation, fornication, entertaining impure thoughts and abortion “. These are all in the CCC.
It is very sad when Catholics know more than their Priests
or more than former Auxilary Bishop McElroy.
Perhaps the Pope should have started with a SYNOD regarding lousy formation in seminaries, disobedient Priests and ignorant Priests.
” My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge;
because you have rejected knowledge,
I reject you from being a priest to me.
And since you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children.”
Priests who do not teach (preach) in full accord with a Catholic Bible and the CCC must either re-educate themselves or leave the Faith.
They are nothing more than heretics when they do not teach the full and accurate TRUTH – because they are afraid of errant parishioners.
There is ZERO teaching in the Catholic Church, that girls must be permitted to be Altar Girls.
In fact, it was a special permission INDULT to even permit Altar Girls.
How ignorant are SFO Priests? They were not being made to do something in their own parishes by Fr. Illo.
Are these Priests afraid of the truth ?
Cardinal Arinze about Altar Girls – permitting it was a “mistake”.
There is ZERO teaching in the Catholic Church that there must be altar servers at ALL. There is a difference between what is mandated and what is permitted.
Tell that to Bp McElroy and the vindictive Priests who object to Altar boys only.
Here and there we find bishops and priests becoming aware of the damaging consequences of Vatican II (mass attendance off, lack of vocations, inadequate catechesis) and trying to do something about it by returning to the old ways. Of course they are ridiculed and dismissed as troublemakers by fellow clergy who have gone along with the Great Modernization and don’t seem to notice that barely one in four Catholics even bothers to attend mass anymore. The leaders of our new religion (and it is a new religion) will keep up their program of innovation until the whole thing collapses or we are led into a new age where the Church bears but a slight resemblance to the Gospel Jesus preached. We are almost there.
‘to live by exclusion is a corrupting method of living’” – Bp McElroy.
What a stupid thing for McElroy to state in regarding to the matter of Altar Girls.
His personal logic would demand that we can all say Mass and hear confessions otherwise it is EXCLUSIONARY.
Everyone can receive Holy Communion otherwise it is EXCLUSIONARY.
RELATIVISM is good, otherwise it is EXCLUSIONARY.
Materialism is good, otherwise it is EXCLUSIONARY.
Communism is good, otherwise it is EXCLUSIONARY.
Expect to hear from more McElroy that whatever he wants to do,
even when he violates the Faith – – – “EXCLUSIONARY” will be his excuse.
He will push EXCLUSIONARY regarding ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and open borders, EXCLUSIONARY in support of the CRS regarding abortion and contraception and anything else he chooses.
We have the – Bible, CCC, Code of Canon Law, GIRM.
We do not need McElroy and dissident Priests making up new rules for any Parish, or any Diocese.
The Church has more corrupt Bishops and Priests than I thought.
Bp Robert McElroy should have told the errant Priests that ” adultery, masturbation, fornication, entertaining impure thoughts and abortion ” are mortal sins.
Instead he ignored this statement.
Instead of picking mere statements of the Pope, McElroy should be quoting Sacred Scripture and the CCC.
SANDY good comments. I plan to address these articles when opportunity arises. We delt with Bishop Brom, we.need to also with the new bishop. Lets pray about this. Bishop McElroy needs our charity in Christ.
Yes, Sandy, thanks for the post……when I tried to distribute “Examination of Conscience and Catholic Doctrine, my Pastor said it was “too Republican”!
Father Cyril O’Sullivan says that Father Illo should be taught “where we are in the Church today.” The modern Catholic Church today is in disaster mode. Hispanics are leaving the Church in droves. Many people, who claim to be Catholics, rarely if ever, go to Mass. Many Catholics vote for pro-abortion politicians. Catholic churches are being closed. Some churches are being demolished..Parishes with the traditional Latin Mass are growing. This didn’t happen after Vatican 1. This has happened after Vatican 2..
Even though the Archbishop is in charge, the liberal priests are still running the archdiocese. Unfortunately, all across the world, most of the priests are very liberal. They no longer view the Mass as a sacrifice, but as a meal. They detest Latin, and love all the feminists running all over the sanctuary. They teach that there is no sin, and since there is no hell, everyone will be saved. Does this sound too fantastic to be true? Well it is true. Probably 90% of priests read NCR and adhere to all its heretical ideas. May God help us.
I wonder if all these dissenters got” permission” when they implemented altar girls long before they were “permitted.” Dis they check with every priest in the diocese? Also, did not the bishop at the time explain to the priests and people that priests could not be forced to use altar girls? Who was not doing their job back then??
That’s right Margaret…….Priests allowed “error” into our Parishes after Vatican II……and every error came from “man” not from Vatican II.
The distaste for the Archbishop and Father Illo is palpable in parishes across the city. I’ve never in my life seen parishioners so vocal about their frustrations with a Bishop as they are with this one. Every time he seems to get out from one PR scandal, another one emerges, and Catholic San Franciscans are tired of it.
I don’t think CCD has reported, but 21 retired (that is to say, safe) priests of the Diocese called his leadership into question, and the conservative Hibernian Newman Club erupted in thunderous applause when its featured speaker called on the Archbishop – who was present at the lunch – to spend time working to make Catholic education affordable rather than writing long and one sided morality language into the teacher handbooks.
It’s pretty hard to be a leader if your troops don’t respect you. I wonder how many priests even attended the Chrism mass this year?
YFC – when the “troops’ are in error, you lead – you do not follow them into Hell.
(Your sodomite sin is showing again.)
Well said Anon, I highly doubt YFC believes in Hell.
Actually the Archbishop has overwhelming support from the silent majority who are bullied into silence by the vocal minority. The real battle is over the Church’s teaching on homosexuality and homosexual acts. The fidelity of the archbishop to the unchanging truth of the Church’s teaching makes him a target no matter what he says or does. The 21 so-called ‘safe’ priests have bullied his predecessors for 40 years. The inculcation of the homosexual movement within the archdiocese is finally being checked by a holy and courageous shepherd.
Regarding Fr Illo, where is the tolerance for diversity? And since when did a pastor have to consult his colleagues about matters within his own parish. When did then Msgr. McElroy ever welcome input regarding his leadership? Instead of wringing their hands because they have had to attend to pastoral concerns about women in the Church, why not seize the opportunity as a teaching moment regarding the amazing role of women in the Church past and present.
Finally, with Syrian Christians being decapitated and their children being massacred before their very eyes, the amount of energy expended on this issue is gluttonous.
YFC believes in mob rule, like most Leftists
Actually, “Your Fellow Catholic” the whole of Catholic bloggers is much larger than the self-loving, liberal, San Francisco clergy. Time to grow up, “YFC” and see that true Catholics want their True Faith, not the simply bizarre feminized version foisted on the world by the Vatican.
You might enjoy Bishop McElroy, but the Catholics in San Diego will not. Abp. Cordileone is the wave of the future in the restoration of the Catholic Faith.
The problem is that too many see the “New Catholic Church” as the real Catholic Church — it is not. Sure, some lazy people like a faith that “welcomes” sodomites, and winks at fornicators, and adores divorced and remarried, and remarried, and remarried Catholics back to the Communion line. (And, no, the “Hibernian” Club is not at all Catholic Traditional, but Catholic Left of Center, that exists to support the apostate Jesuits at USF — good amount of drinking, though.) But the Archbishop is beloved by Catholics, real Catholics, those that actually go to Church and wish that the Faith was faithfully taught, and enforced.
This seemed to me like the much bigger, though related, story–the parents at Start of the Sea who want Fr. Illo and Fr. Driscoll removed and had a rally:
The “National Catholic Reporter” (aka “National Catholic Distorter”) is a fraud.
It is not Catholic.
It was publically condemned by their Diocese Bishop Helmsing in 1968,
and then this was confirmed again by their Diocese Bishop in 2013.
Do not go to the site using “ncronline” links. (ncr on line), even if recommended by others.
No not support the Distorter in any way.
They were told not to use the name “Catholic” in their name, but continue to perpetrate the FRAUD to the unsuspecting.
You’ll note that Fr. Z constantly links to ncronline stories. As far as I know, this is the only news outlet covering the story. Perhaps you can find a better link for us?
These anti-Fr. Illo priests are a bunch of bums. No wonder the Church in San Francisco was in such poor shape when Cordileone arrived.
I agree Carol.
Wait till Bishop McElroy comes to San Diego, the faithful here are not going to remain silent, out of charity, we will love him with prayers, welcome him and express our concerns. It is our duty to do so. We must hope for the best and you just never know what seed’s our Lord will allow us to plant in this new bishop coming our way. So long we breath, so long there is wind in the air, that gives us breath, there is life and where there is life, there is always an opportunity to trust in God to perform His miracles, to trust in God, that people can have a change of heart and become more holier and faithful…..just for some, as long as there is life, there is an opportunity for conversion….we must hope in that. The rest is in God’s hands. Only time will tell. Takes patience, but what we don’t have power over, then we must first work on our selves.
If the Faithful want to make a statement take over McElroy’s residence, do what the Left does and shut it down their throat.
It’s not about liberal or conservative, it’s about some “rock star priest” going from diocese to dicoese (Stockton, Los Angeles, and now San Francisco) trying to show how much better he is than the people around him.
Father Illo attacks his teachers, “threatening” to replace them with nuns – hello?
Father Illl attacks the students for not being Catholic enough – and then hands second graders pamphlets aksing if they engage in sodomy.
He sounds like an angry, self-righteous man who keeps bouncy from diocese to diocese rather than serving where he belongs!!!!
Fr. IlIo does not go to any other Parishes unless INVITED by that Parish Pastor.
Replacing laity who do NOT adhere to Church teaching – with Laity or Nuns who DO adhere to Church teaching is a good thing.
I’m all for it. It’s about time.
Those who do not agree with the Doctrine of the Catholic Faith (Mission) but have chosen to work in a Catholic School or Catholic Diocese are hypocrites and liars.
Such people should never be around children anywhere.
The Doctrine of the Faith is contained in the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH” (second edition, 1997, dark green cover in the USA,).
” ….the CATECHISM has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians, and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine,
enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates, lives, and prays in her daily life.” – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg xiv)
As a woman, I am 100% in favor of Altar Boys and Men only, unless there are not enough male volunteers.
Anonymous who do you follow? Follow Jesus! His ways are not yours! Father llo is following Jesus!
“Anonymous,” you have distorted this information to suit your own problems, obviously, with the Catholic Church! Fr. Illo is a fine priest! He is there for people with problems, too, to bring them to Christ! That is his job! Why can’t you respect a good Catholic priest? As for the misreported and distorted situation of the Confession pamphlets— there is a stack of well-written pamphlets, with material straight from the Catechism, placed thoughtfully in the church, to help Catholics make a good Examination of Conscience, before going to Confession. Excellent pamphlets! Somehow, they were taken and briefly passed around at the school. The complaining parents are immature. All Catholic churches have similar little pamphlets, to aid in preparation for the Sacrament of Penance! A usual strategy, is to take the Ten Commandments, as is done in the Catechism—- and discuss each Commandment, and possible sins against each one. For example, the Fifth Commandment– “Thou Shalt Not Kill.” Have you committed the sin of Abortion? Etc. etc. Again– this is a ridiculous, distorted, and misreported situation!
The DEVIL is having a field day!!! HE just loves it when he can divide, especially Jesus’ Priests.
Horray for Father Michael Hurley, he is one of the ‘real deal’ Priests in the Church along with Father Illo and Driscoll!!!
Sounds like the Priests of the Archdiocese have had it ‘their way’ for much too long!!!
Amen to that Elizabeth!
Michael Voris hits the nail on the head when he says most priests have lost supernatural faith. Listening to this bunch of, what sounds like overgrown school kids, led by the biggest school kid of all, Bishop McElroy, I totally agree with him.
don’t forget the overlooked Lk 10:40 ‘Martha and Mary’ passage where Jesus notes that an upset Martha is all involved in diakonian(service, ministry, preparations) but lauds Mary’s choice as better. Is it not possible that Fr Illo is concerned that young girls not miss out on the deeper things the Lord has for them by keeping them from liturgical diakonia? False teachings about the possibility of ordination will only stir bitterness in them and cause some to define their ministry and mission as a life of opposition to the church… and then leave it.
These are kids. It is not about liturgy, ministry and mission.
It is about being left out, being not good enough, being seen as inferior.
Things have been handled really poorly.
Father Illo, God bless him, seems to have a foot that has taken up residence in his mouth. He means to be loyal to the Lord but he always blows it, He is always having to apologize and reverse his decisions.
Fr Illo has not had to apologize for anything, because he teaches the TRUTH.
He has not had to reverse any decisions.
Fr. Illo teaches The Truth…….watch the great fruit that will result from his holy efforts.
In November, three months after arriving at Star of the Sea, Illo banned girls from serving at the altar during Mass, a practice approved for the universal church since 1994. He has since revised the policy to allow already-trained altar girls to continue to serve at the school, but girls would no longer be recruited or instructed for altar service.
Also in November, Illo stopped blessing non-Catholic children at Communion and barred non-Catholic students from reading at school Mass, although he later reinstated these practices.
Parents also described their shock when they learned that Driscoll had distributed a pamphlet to the students, some as young as 7, that addressed sodomy, masturbation and adultery.
Illo and Driscoll have said distribution of the confessional guide was inappropriate and apologized.
Many parents mentioned Illo’s blog, in which he described San Francisco as “savagely distorted” and said changes at the school were to effect a “necessary purge.” On his blog, Illo apologized for his choice of words.
From the Reporter (which I never would have seen if CCD hadn’t sent me there)
Anonymous it is about teaching the TRUTH – liturgy, ministry to all ages, and mission.
With people like you, no wonder society is so screwed up.
If you have not noticed, men and women are not the same, even though we have equal dignity.
Not being an Altar Girl, has zero to do with being left out.
The holiest human that ever lived was the Blessed Mother and she did not publically assist Jewish priests at Temple services.
You non-Catholics and sodomites need to get a life.
Rash judgement is a sin.
No it is not….
CCC 2477 and CCC 2478
Anonymous, there is no rash judgment. Your own posts speak for themselves.
Watching, Anonymous reported “Many parents mentioned Illo’s blog, in which he described San Francisco as “savagely distorted” and said changes at the school were to effect a “necessary purge.” On his blog, Illo apologized for his choice of words.”.
That would constitute rash judgement, which is why Father Illo apologized. Horse. Meet water.
The Priest (and Altar servers) serve the people.
Why should women have to be servers all the time? Women are not your slaves Anonymous.
Let the men (boys) do it.
I only spoke on the perception of rejection by children.
I said nothing about altar girls.
To have your foot in your mouth means that you accidentally offend.
You appear to be offending intentionally.
Anonymous, young girls don’t feel rejected unless some misguided adults put that in their heads. All their parents need to say is – the Church needs more good Priests, and by being Altar Servers more boys may consider this vocation.
Let the males do their own jobs – and volunteer to serve at Mass.
Volunteer at your Parish.
MALES – especially Grandfathers, Fathers and their Sons – MUST volunteer to serve at Mass.
There is nothing that states only children should serve at Mass.
The Pastor will make certain you are properly trained.
And the Priest may NOT change the Liturgy as stated in GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) for the Ordinary Form.
Vatican II – Dogmatic Constitution – Sacrosanctorum Concilium – # 22.3 –
“Therefore no other person, even if he be a Priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy of his own authority “.
Don’t be LAZY MEN – step up. Get off your duffs.
Do your job. And teach your Sons to do their job through your example.
Any Catholic MALE posting on this site – has no excuse for not serving unless he is physically disabled.
And on the other hand, there are an awful lot of people who are way too sensitive.
I put these last post of mine in the wrong place. It was meant in answer to the person who said Fr. Illo was always putting his foot in his mouth.
Children ARE sensitive.
Children are sensitive. They are observant. They learn from example as well as by words.
That is why they must be taught by word and by example the Doctrine of the Faith.
Those who do not adhere to the Doctrine of the Faith (CCC) must never be allowed to teach in a Catholic School or work in a Diocese.
Priests who do not adhere to the Faith (CCC) should be removed or defrocked.
We do not need scandals from bad Priests, or bad Bishops, or employees.
If we want more good Priests, boys must be given preference over girls as Altar servers.
Fathers can also volunteer as Altar Servers to set the example for their Sons.
We all must become “sensitive” to this. Girls are not stupid, they will understand if it is explained to them.
These Vatican II priests want to prevent Archbishop Cordileone from restoring reverence to his Archdiocese. That auxiliary Bishop McElroy spoke against his superior in the presence of most parish priests gives a sense of the smallness of this man shortly thereafter promoted to Bishop of San Diego by Pope Francisco.
I wonder whether all this was not a calculated move to prevent Archbishop Cordileone from proposing this Holy rising star of a priest as successor to McElroy. The establishment probably fears Fr. Illo’s sanctity.
The formation of a faithful Oratory in the business district of San Francisco is a grave danger to the Reformed Church. This foundation of a new community of priests was done at the initiative of Bishop Cordileone and is a great hope for San Francisco.
Like Francisco said, hagan lío. Any Catholic knows that altar girls are not in the interpretation of continuity of the Church and are a special case by indult. Most here must remember when we got the first altar girls. Once you allow the liberal camel’s nose under the tent it becomes the new law. Pike abortion in the penumbras of the constitutional right to privacy to receive The Pill from your doctor.
I am blessed to have known Fr. Illo from the Latin Mass in Mission San Juan Buenaventura, from where we were expelled, after 16 years, by a new pastor by name of Fr. Tom Elewaut in the final days of the Cardinal Mahony – Bishop Curry team.
“Gratias” thank you for this great post: You are certainly correct; with all the whining about Fr. Illo not “conferring” with others, the actual second in command in SF openly disrespected his superior, and in harsh, and incorrect, terms.
We need to pray for Abp. Cordileone, who is under constant pressure and attack from all sides for his position of Faith. He, with little help aside from good priests like Fr. Illo, is attempting to rebuild the Faith in San Francisco. The purported Catholics, aided by apostate bishops like McElroy, want to create a “New Catholic Church”. Even if they formally cannot do this, they all insist that, somehow, California circumstances are different, and that they have certain expectations that cannot be changed, even by the Church (most attached to sexual ethics and diversity issues).
Reach out to the Archbishop in support (and to Fr. Illo). Attack those that confront the Church. They are not acting like Catholics. Invite them to leave the Church and attend the Episcopalian church, which will welcome them to their hootenanny.
Letters of support to Archbishop Cordileone. Everyone prayers for our Sheperd.
I wonder how long it will be until Archbishop Cordileone will be forced out of San Francisco, and exiled to some remote position as was done to Cardinal Burke. My prayers are with the archbishop. May God protect and bless him.
Amen, Father Karl.
How about the island of Elba?
It may happen Father, it is my hope that this Pontificate ends before the end of the year, and arch conservative/traditionalist become Pope (Archbishop Schneider comes to mind) and he in turn removes men like Wuerl, Dolan, O’Malley and Cuspich in one grand swoop then men like Cordilenone are made Cardinals ..
Robert McElroy does NOT deserve the title Bishop.
(But what does not expect when Donald Wuerl makes the recommendations.)
McElroy should have corrected the errant Priests at the meeting.
And told them to go to Confession for their Mortal Sins of Rash Judgment and Calumny.
1) Vatican II did not support Altar girls – this was not addressed in any of the 16 Documents.
2) Vatican II required that Latin be preserved in the Liturgy (even in the OF Mass) – “Sacrosanctum Consilium” – #36.1 “Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites”.
In addition V II never changed any Mortal Sins including the Mortal Sins of:
“adultery, masturbation, fornication, entertaining impure thoughts and abortion”.
These have always been mortal sins, and are mortal sins, and are needed to be reviewed in responsible “examination of conscience”.
(Kids see and hear about these sins on TV all the time.)
And lastly pedophile Priests abused girls as well as boys.
If McElroy was a decent and responsible Bishop, he would have:
1) corrected the errant Priests
2) given them simple/correct answers to the questions that any people might have asked.
3) he would have told the Priests to read and comply with the CCC – forthwith.
And recommend that their congregations do the same.
4) and secondarily he should have told them to read the V II docs from the Vatican web site because of their errors.
– – – – –
None of these dissenters if from that Parish. They have no right to interfere with the Faithful Pastor implementing policies and praxis for the good of his Parish.
Illio is not the pastor..[don’t delete]
Surely we are approaching a time of schism in our Roman Catholic Church. We cannot blame Vatican II but priests and lay people who have perpetrated all sorts of innovations and even heresies in the name of the Council called by St. John XXIII. No wonder the Faithful are confused and disheartened. We must pray daily for the ongoing conversion of our priests and bishops, have Masses offered for them.
I agree anniem.
My number one concern is vocations to the priesthood. Say what you will, but boys need to learn the reverence by serving at mass. It’s wonderful to crowd the altar with altar girls but then let us not bemoan the fact that vocations are spiraling downward.
Let’s stop quibbling, fighting, over such issues. There is plenty for all of us to do to promote God’s Kingdom on this earth. I never served as an altar girl. But then again, I never expected to be ordained a priest. Get over it. Get on with it. Pray for our shepherds. Stop attacking our priests like a hungry pack of wolves. Love our priests. For heaven’s sake, if not for your own sake.+
Fr. Illo may be correct in everything he is doing, although I don’t agree with most of what he has done, but that doesn’t seem to be the issue. What is lacking on his part is any skill in communications with his parishioners. Good Pastors know how to get things done without upsetting the apple cart, and I don’t mean sugar-coating everything. Communications is more than laying out the law. It involves consulting with parishioners, asking for advice, testing planned actions, education about tradition and Tradition, etc. We don’t know the whole story, but it would be interesting to know if he consulted his Pastoral Council about his plans, does he have a strategic plan that includes the hopes and dreams of the parish for the next three to five years, was the School Board involved in the process, did he discuss his plans with other priest to get a feel for what the reactions might be to his plans? It sounds, on the other hand, that he was hell bent on turning the church upside down with no consideration to the results or any understanding of how people would react. Nor, did he care about their reaction by the looks of things. He needs to learn people skills to go along with his theological skills.
Of course you don’t agree with Illo Bob One he trying to adhere to the Traditions of the Church, as victim of Vatican 2 you would not understand that
Bob One, for someone who says he does not know the whole story, you certainly are judgmental.
Pastoral Councils have no standing in the operation of Catholic Parishes or Catholic Schools. (- Thank God.)
Check out Code of Canon Law.
The Pastor is in charge of and responsible for his own Parish.
The Diocese Bishop in charge of his own Diocese.
There are heretics and schismatics who do not follow the Doctrine of the Faith (CCC) sitting on some parish councils – which are advisory when/if a pastor chooses to use them. (There are even some who support abortion in some Knights of Columbus, in violation of their Charter.)
We don’t even bother having a Parish Council in my parish anymore, – and everyone is very happy that way – got rid of the bossy and Pharisee types.
If anyone has an issue they go to the Pastor; and if he is in violation of Church teaching without correcting it, we go to our Bishop.
The Pastor must do what is correct, in accord with the Doctrine of the Faith (CCC);
GIRM for the OF Mass, or 1962 Missal for the EF Mass;
Code of Canon Law; and Motu Proprios of the Pope; and directives of his Bishop.
There is right, and there is wrong. Stop the relativism within the Church.
In case you have forgotten Bob One, Jesus turned the Jewish Faith upside down. He did not ask for permission from his disciples.
good comments JIM P. God bless you.
In the Old Testament the revelation of the kingdom is often made under the forms of symbols. In similar fashion the inner nature of the Church is now made known to us in various images. The Church is, accordingly, called ‘our mother’ and described as the spotless spouse of the spotless lamb. It is she whom Christ ‘loved and for whom he delivered himself up that he might sanctify her’. It is she whom he unites to himself by an unbreakable alliance, and whom he constantly ‘nourishes and cherishes’(Eph 5:25-29).
Vatican Council II, Lumen Gentium 6.
While the priest acts as Christ, offering up his life during Mass for his bride the Church, the altar server acts as an extension of the priest’s hands, an extension which must be male lest a same-sex image of Christ and His Church be given and seen.
Altar girls came to us in violation of Canon Law (230.1); having them serve at our altars of sacrifice is a serious deformation of Catholic worship.
McElroy said “excluding girls from being altar servers is ‘invidious discrimination’ and to do this in this day and age in our culture has no justification.”
What does “our day and age”– as crazy as it is, have to do with anything. Was it “invidious discrimination” when Bishop McElroy was ordained? What changed, other than brainwashing. Give me a break.
my parish allows alter boys only. This is how the boys are willing and eager to serve. Boys do not want to serve with girls at the alter. We have anywhere up to 35 alter boys at one Mass. It’s a developmental issue too. My church is always full and produces priests and nuns because our priests teach the Truth of the Catholic Church. People drive from many miles around to our parish because of this.
Gossiping and listening (reading) gossip is a sin.
This should never have been leaked to the Reporter. The Reporter should not have published it. CCD should not have republished it.
I confess I read it, too.
When confronted with gossip, one is obliged not to repeat it and not to judge people on it. It is information you should not have and you must not allow it to cause you to sin.
I sincerely hope CCD does not publish things with the aim of harming someone’s reputation-a grave sin.
What an odd assortment of priests we must have who “council” other priests in the running, administration of their parish, while attendance across the board drops at mass. This modernism infection is far more dangerous than choosing male altar servers. In London there is the Brompton Oratory and yet the church survives and thanks to outreach by the parishes to the many immigrants growth is happening. Our priests are in many ways are too focused inwardly with too many local rewards.
“Carmelite Fr. Michael Greenwell…described parental concerns he’d heard about potential perceptions caused by a pastor wanting “only boys in the program” in light of the “priestly pedophile scandals.”’ How dare they cast aspersions on Fr. Illo’s exemplary character.
Fr Greenwell would do well to ensure that his parishioners/concerned parents are properly informed about the true nature of the “priestly pedophile scandals.” Greenwell and the parents are mistaken in passing off the abuse crisis as a “pedophilia” crisis. Here’s the truth: In the general population, the majority of reported child sex abuse victims are female. The John Jay research study of Catholic clergy abuse 2004 reported 81% of victims were male, only 19% of alleged victims were female. In addition, over 78% of victims were aged 11 years or older at the time of the alleged abuse, with over 27% being between the ages 15 and 17. Pedophilia is defined as sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Statistics showed the Catholic clergy scandal was largely a crisis of homosexual men preying on teenage boys. This is a fact that is “conveniently ignored” by those who find it an inconvenient truth.
The Truth, The Truth, will anyone listen to The Truth……thank you for posting Nicholas!
Archbishop Cordileone and Father llo both are shaking things up, the way it should be! Time to rock the house! There are many other excellent V2 Archbishops and priests who are doing the same, they are in their right to follow the correct teachings! You will know them by their being well versed in the Holy Word of God, by their strength and knowledge of the CCC. If they want to fight off these, the ignorant, they can hire a canon lawyer that knows the real teachings and defends their right to run their parish the way it has always has been!
I don’t care of a parish is done in the OF or EF mass, what I care is that it is done reverently, IS holy and faithful, done in accordance with the GIRM, that the pastor encourages his flock to read and study the CCC, the Holy Bible etc…….that is all….both forms of mass are holy and both forms of mass can also have abuses if the pastor is not holy and obedient to the Magisterium!
Praise Be the holy name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and savior.
That Fr. O’Sullivan in Lagunitas sounds like a real case. And I thought the crazies were in Fairfax!
I know of good parishes in the Diocese of San Diego. May they remain so and faithful even with this new bishop.
I guess i’m the first to comment not on the content of the meeting minutes, but on the fact some priest forwarded what are presumably private minutes to a news outlet. That he sent them to the dissenters Bible, the National Cathoilc Reporter, tells a lot about that priest’s views. Hate to have him as a confessor. He stabbed his fellow priests in the back.
You readers were afforded a glimpse into the seedy world of AmChurch’s clergy. Remember, whoever leaked these minutes thought that they would be showing the GOOD side of the dissenters like Strange and O’Sullivan. Instead, they show the discerning Catholic just how corrupt the clergy (and remember most council members are elected by their peers) are of the archdiocese. Rash judgment, envy, calumny of the absent Fr. Illo– what an awful meeting! The names and presenting issues could be different, but many priests councils follow this vicious cycle once a progressive shibboleth is challenged. Think about this article next time you see one of your conservative priests looking beat-down.
Note that it took religious priests to introduce a measure of objectivity and justice to the proceedings.
I had hope that McElroy would be a reasonable moderate as an ordinary. This has dissuaded me. Woe to San Diego!
What do they say in the Air Force? If you’re not catching flak, you’re not over the target? The squealing we hear from apostates inside and outside the Church is indicative of just how frightened some folks are of the true Catholic faith. Fathers Illo and Driscoll are excellent priests and in fact are widely appreciated by those of us who attend Mass at Star of the Sea. What we’re seeing here is partly a generational battle. Priests like Fr Strange are elderly and close to retirement. They’re being replaced a younger, more orthodox generation and they don’t like it. It’s quite telling that the Dominican priest who courageously spoke up against the lynch mob mentality at that council meeting was likely one of the youngest priests in attendance. The times they are a changin’
Act of Reparation for Blasphemies Uttered Against the Holy Name
O Jesus, my Savior and Redeemer, Son of the living God, behold, we kneel before Thee and offer Thee our reparation; we would make amends for all the blasphemies uttered against Thy holy name, for all the injuries done to Thee in the Blessed Sacrament, for all the irreverence shown toward Thine immaculate Virgin Mother, for all the calumnies and slanders spoken against Thy spouse, the holy Catholic and Roman Church. O Jesus, who has said: “If you ask the Father anything in My name, He will give it to you,” we pray and beseech Thee for all our brethren who are in danger of sin; shield them from every temptation to fall away from the true faith; save those who are even now standing on the brink of the abyss; to all of them give light and knowledge of the truth, courage and strength for the conflict with evil, perseverance in faith and active charity! For this do we pray, most merciful Jesus, in Thy name, unto God the Father, with whom Thou livest and reignest in the unity of the Holy Ghost world without end. Amen.
Before going to the Garden of Gethsemane on Holy Thursday evening, Christ prayed for the unity of all Christians. His prayer was more than a devout wish; it was a command for those of us who would follow Him.
In this prayer, we join with Christ in praying for that unity which is expressed in the Latin phrase Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia: Where Peter is, there is the Church.
A Devout Exercise for the Unity of the Church
Ant. That they all may be one, as Thou, Father, in me and I in Thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that Thou hast sent me.
V. I say to thee, that thou art Peter.
R. And upon this rock I will build my Church.
Let us pray.
Lord Jesus Christ, Who didst say to Thine Apostles; peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you, look not upon my sins, but upon the faith of Thy Church; and vouchsafe unto her that peace and unity which is agreeable to Thy will: Who livest and reignest God forever and ever. Amen.
A wonderful and timely reflection – thank you!
Your welcome Carol. Praise Be the holy name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and savior.
A Prayer to Saint Catherine of Siena
O most admirable St. Catherine, thou who didst merit to make of thy whole life the noblest holocaust, constantly inspiring thyself to a most ardent love for Jesus, the Lamb without blemish, and for His beloved spouse the Church, whose rights thou didst strenuously affirm and support in troubled times, obtain, likewise, for us the grace not only to pass unscathed through the corruption of this world, but also to remain unshakably faithful to the Church, in word, in deed, in example, to see always, and to make others see, in the Vicar of Christ our anchor, as it were, in the storms of life, the beacon light that points the way to the harbor of safety in the dark night of our times and of men’s souls. Amen.
FTA: Fr. Michael Strange called “the Oratory — as it exists in our archdiocese — a divisive force and wonders if there is an implication that the rest of us are not imparting the true Catholic faith”.
Why so sensitive Fr. Strange? What is there to fear so much from an Oratory?
Let us examine what “Fr. Illo Blog” said about their progress just this month:
“Some have asked for a progress report on the San Francisco Oratory. We are now four members of the community—two priests and two brothers. Gabriel Crawford joined us last month from Pittsburgh, PA, where he had been active in the Oratory Community in that city. We pray together twice a day: in the morning we pray from 6:15 to 7am in the little rectory chapel, including the liturgy of the hours and prayers to St. Philip. In the evening we pray in the church from 5 to 5:30pm with eight to ten people who join us for vespers from the breviary (all are welcome). ”
Sounds Catholic to me.
May God heap His blessings on Father Illo. So much of San Francisco is a spiritual quagmire. I pray that Star of the Sea can shine like the candle in the dark!!
The lynching of Fr. Illo is very, very unfair. I have know him for many years and he is a saintly man. The problem with our Church is Vatican II. We now have to approve all kinds of thing in our Church. I remember how beautiful were our masses when I took my first communion. So different to the entertainment of the new masses, no reverence, sometimes even with liturgical dances.
Pax, what you (and I) can not stand are the ABUSES of the Ordinary Form of the Mass.
Far too many Priests, and too many Laity abuse the Mass.
Some Bishops abuse the Mass.
And it is appalling, and not worthy of God.
From Vatican II Document: #22.3 ” Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority”.
Dogmatic Constitution: Sacrosanctum Concilium.
GIRM is required to be followed for the OF Mass. And can be found on both the USCCB and Vatican web sites.
The uncorrected (by the Priest) and disrespectful behavior of some Laity also drives people away – it detracts from the holy atmosphere that God deserves.
I think our Church needs to clearly address the Vatican II crisis, that we have long been suffering, and be honest! True Catholic clergy and faithful suffer much! The Church has invited divisiveness and collapse, led by ignorant, heretical, immoral, liberal leftist clergy and laymen, since the close of Vatican II— and the abdication of the Church’s governing, authoritative, leadership role, given by Christ to St. Peter! The Catechism, Bible, and Code of Canon Law, should be in daily use, all over the world— no exceptions! Christ and His Church, are not of this world! Christ came to die for our sins, and lead us to Heaven! For those corrupt, worldly clergy, nuns, and laymen, who do NOT want Christ— they should all leave the Church! (Including those in the highest levels, at the Vatican!)
How dare Fr. Illo embarrass his fellow priests by his example of how to Christ-up and be a real pastor and a real man!
There is a wonderful stirring taking place around the Church at this time in which the novusordists appeat so close to total victory. We see it in discussion threads like these, in the fidelity of so many Catholics, and the wide reflection of California Catholic Daily on iCatholic opinion in our golden state.
Many, many good priests have been lynched just because they were doing their priestly duty to guide their flock. Since the Protestant Revolution, the people have been bossing their pastors in the Protestant churches. Since Vatican II this error has slowly but surely crept into Holy Mother Church where it is all too common. Starting with Lucifer, who said, ‘I will not serve!’, this anti leadership garbage has always been against authority.” Too many chiefs, no Indians”, ” too many conductors, and no players” are maxims which are very relevant today. The priest and the bishop are the shepherds; the faithful are the flock. Man cannot change this fact. The despicable way Father Illo and Archbishop Cordileone have been treated is a sin that cries to Heaven for vengeance. Our Lord said” that if you are treated that way, know that I was treated the same way too.” May God bless and protect Father Illo and Archbishop Cordileone, and all faithful priests. May Our Lady shelter them under her holy mantel. Ave Maria Purrissima!
“Parents also described their shock when they learned that Driscoll had distributed a pamphlet to the students, some as young as 7, that addressed sodomy, masturbation and adultery. Illo and Driscoll have said distribution of the confessional guide was inappropriate and apologized.”
The irony is that the young people, “some as young as 7” are bombarded with sexually suggestive and inappropriate messages and materials constantly in San Fran-Babylon. But the end result for Frs Illo & Driscoll is therefore: Accuse, freeze, personalize, isolate, destroy.
“Many [Anonymous] parents mentioned Illo’s blog, in which he described San Francisco as “savagely distorted”… On his blog, Illo apologized for his choice of words.”
Those who think otherwise could not know what it is like to live in San Francisco. Thank God I do not have small children anymore. But again, the end result for Frs Illo & Driscoll therefore: Accuse, freeze, personalize, isolate, destroy.
“Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city.” (Matt: 23:34)
Hannah Arendt once commented that she felt that the app of bussing students as a method of desegregation was cowardly and an abuse of the children involved, making them the workhorses for change their parents were afraid to implement in their own lives. this opinion, written in Dissent magazine caused her fall from grace among the left who largely backed her. The introduction of altar girls was one more cowardly way of using children to fight adult wars over women/’s ordination, a toe in the door, but using children’s toes.
‘app’ sould have been ‘approach’
We all saw this coming when Rome let girls serve at the altar years ago, the only way to stop all this is for Rome to finally say NO MORE GIRLS at the altar, it is reserved for boys who will one day become priests. But this will not happen under Bergoglio so the disaster will continue in Holy Mother Church until Rome once again finds the Faith and restores the Traditional Latin Mass to its proper place.
I have never been to San Francisco, but I know what Father Illo has been going though. Several priests that I know, in Canada and in the United States were desperately trying to get their parishes ‘Catholic’ again. In polite and kind language, the pastors informed the people of the errors that were present during and after Mass. Example: glass chalices, whicker baskets for ciboriums, home made biscuits used as sacramental hosts, just a stole used by the priest to celebrate Mass, kiss of peace lasting over 5 minutes, way too many Extraordinary ministers to distribute Holy Communion, liquid scented candles, instead of pure wax, horrible secular music more fitting for a nightclub or lounge, and no respect for the Blessed Sacrament. In addition to this, hardly anyone showing up for confession, and yet everyone, including visiting Protestants (recall I mentioned that the people were encouraged to go to churches of different religions) coming up for Holy Communion, and many not knowing the proper way for receiving Communion in the hand, and the passing of the Sacred Host to other people in the pew. After instructing the parishioners of these terrible abuses, over and over again for several Sundays, and seeing absolutely no improvement, if I were the pastor, I too might be a bit impatient and disgusted with the stubbornness of these mules who are supposed to be practicing Catholics. They are liberals who hate authority, and have set themselves up as their own popes.
His Grace, Archbishop Cordileone knew what he would be up against when he took the post of San Francisco as did we all. This is only one of many salvos to be fired his way, the Novus Ordonarians will try and destroy him as long as he is there. Rome lost its faith years ago when Vatican II took place and low and behold look at what has happend to Mother Church, Martin Luther would be proud of the Novus Oronarians. Yes we may not see the TLM returned to its proper place and Rome may not recover the Holy Faith for years to come, pandoras box was opened during the Council and the Church has never recovered. Once we had kneeling, quiet, Latin, Gregorian chant, Mozart, Palastrina, modesty, stunning vestments and churches, packed seminaries and convents, a true belief in the real presence, devotions to the saints. And now we have altar girls, dancing girls, hand holding, kiss of peace, polyester vestments, dinner tables instead of altar of sacrifice, guitars, drums, tamborines, lay lectors, lay women running around the altar, priests who sit in chair on the sidelines and do nothing, this was the NEW SPRINGTIME that Vatican II gave us. God forgive them all.
What is a Novus Ordonarians? Don’t know what that means? I only know of bad will people. But the faithful are always faithful through good times and bad times.
And, Janek, we thank God every day for the changes brought about by the Spririt of Vatican II. Those of us who lived back then key the damage the old ways were causing. VII was a breath of fresh air waffling through the windows of the church. It’s direction is yet to be completed, but it will come in time.
Bob One.. explain in detail the overall positive aspects and results of the “spirit of Vatican 2”.. I can tell you after 50 years of novelty and liberalism the results have been shuttered parishes, empty seminaries and convents (except the traditional ones) sexual scandals, wrecked liturgy, no Bob One the results of the direction are in, and it is an unmitigated disaster, but as a liberal you cannot accept the Truth….
Canisius many of us would love to engage an honest conversation about why the ills of the Church came about and how to cure them, but we find it impossible when some members have already formed their own conclusions. Conclusions which, I might add, is at variance with the role of the Pope, of Councils, and the Magisterium.
Your Fellow Catholic, don’t be a coward. Spit it out.
Use official Church documents and provide the links. This is your big chance.
Dear Watching: I see you are a new name to this site. You use well the tactic to ask people to “provide official Church documents” to prove a point. But you never provide links to prove the counter arguments. Because there are none. There are no “official Church documents” about why people left the American Church.
However, there was a study that the US Conference of Bishops undertook, and they reported back. I don’t think polls constitute the “official Church documents” you purport to seek. But go look up the poll that the Bishops commissioned, and tell us what you learn from it, won’t you?
“Conclusions which, I might add, is at variance with the role of the Pope, of Councils, and the Magisterium. ” Prove this YFC,,, prove it with fact
Canisius, I “prove it with fact” all the time. You just refuse to listen. You refuse to listen to me, to Vatican II, to the Catechism, and to the Popes. Not claiming we are all on the same level at all, but if you won’t listen to them, why would you listen to me?
Your Fellow Catholic, and others, please provide links to USCCB,
and/or other official Church web sites such as the Vatican,
and/or official Church documents to substantiate your claims.
There is so much misinformation that this is necessary. Personal opinions can be in error – accidental or purposeful, and some can even advocate mortal sin which will send unrepentant Souls to Hell for eternity.
And thank you to those who quote the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” (second edition, 1997, dark green cover in USA,
aka CCC) so others will know the true Doctrine of the Catholic Faith.
CCC: ” 2467 Man tends by nature toward the truth. He is obliged to honor and bear witness to it:
“It is in accordance with their dignity that all men, because they are persons . . . are both impelled by their nature and bound by a moral obligation to seek the truth, especially religious truth.
They are also bound to adhere to the truth once they come to know it and direct their whole lives in accordance with the demands of truth.”
For more info on the CCC go to: “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”
Canisius, you speak truth. Thanks be to God, the clueless people who swallowed the false allure of this deeply flawed council are reaching their expiration dates and younger Catholics are being ordained and are teaching the true Faith. What is more encouraging is the fact that more young Catholics are demanding a return to the True Liturgy that they have for so long been cheated out of. One can see the fury of the liberals who can glimpse the death of their disgusting plan to fundamentally change Christ’s Holy Church faintly upon the horizon, and will redouble their efforts to accomplish their Satanic purpose. Begone! Minions of Luucifer, homosexuals, Liberals, defenders of abortion and all who seek the destruction of God’s Holy Church.
What damage was done by Church teaching prior to V II ?
(Please use official Church documents so we can follow your train of thinking.)
What direction of V II is yet to be completed?
(Please use the V II documents, and be specific as to the Document and the paragraph number.)
Everyone might want to review this (using the links provided within the article) for additional discussion.
I also would like Bob One to answer the two questions.
Bob One, please back up your personal opinion with facts.
Answer the questions and provide official Church documentation as appropriate.
You keep saying this, “Bob One,” without any examples of the “damage” allegedly caused by “the old ways”. What? Tell us, specifically.
In fact, the “old ways” of the Catholic Church were the ways of Tradition, and represented how the Saints prayed and worshipped. The Novus Ordo is nothing at all, except the “committee” by-product of trying to make the Catholic Church more Protestant. (And, how has that worked? Only the Anglicans came over en masse, but that was the result of the wonderful Benedict and his agreement over the use of the also wonderful “Ordinariate Mass” which is superior to the N.O.)
Why is it that you Zombie-Liberals always talk about the “bad old days” but only in general terms. And you also all use the simply stupid phrase, “Spirit of Vatican II”. Well, actions taken in the name of such “Spirit” have resulted in catastrohphic destruction to the Church: (1) virtual loss of the Mass of All Time; (2) collapse of numerous — almost all — religious orders (that are not Traditional, or at least very conservative); (3) stampede of once-faithful and practicing Catholics to other denominations, or to the golf course or beach on Sunday; (4) elevation of unspeakable sexual depravity as “normal,” likely leading to relaxation of the notions of sin for adultery, fornication, sodomy, and abortion (and a more or less wink and nod to child molesting homosexual clergy); and (5) the loss of centuries of architectural, music, and liturgical beauty and reverence.
Amen, St. Christtopher,
You speak truth. And the ignorant hate it.
Who is “we”, Bob One? Those of us who were around before the disaster occurred are certainly able to observe the contrast between the True and the new. Lotta difference between the “New and Improved” and what we had for so long before.
Its just your opinion hosemonkey. This could be a long debate once again if we rehash one. But they say that the prideful refuse to listen even if facts are shown to them. So why bother.
…the prideful often refuse to listen to the wisdom of their elders as well, specifically “elders” who are old enough to have witnessed the change/differences. And they attribute all lived experience to “opinion” so as to dismiss reality. All while “humbly” asserting a superior opinion/fidelity based on nothing but shutting down one’s five senses and all conversation that delves into rational thought.
So why bother indeed. The blind love their blindness. But those with the capacity to see are warned of blind guides.
At St. Margaret Mary church, in Oakland, they have had three kinds of Masses, for many long years— the English Novus Ordo, the Latin Novus Ordo– and the beautiful Tridentine Mass! I think this is wonderful! The most important thing, is reverence, adoration of God, quiet for prayer, and reverent, sacred church music, for worship of God. Following the rubrics for each Mass with care, and properly teaching the catechism, is an added plus. The parish children (many have been homeschooled, over the years!) are always well-prepared, for their first Sacraments, of Confession and Holy Communion, whether in the Novus Ordo, or Tridentine form. Lots of Confession times are also available, and all the normal, traditional Catholic devotions! The Bishop will also come and do Confirmations, in both the Novus Ordo and Tridentine forms. It would be terrific, to have more parishes of this kind– and add to that, good, orthodox Catholic schools, taught by the nuns! Maybe Star of the Sea could be likewise!
You are generally correct, “Linda Maria,” as other parishes should — at least — have a TLM regularly scheduled, and the extraordinary form of the sacraments. It is likely that, over time, Tradition would become the norm, if permitted to “compete” with the artificial and made-up.
However, for St. Margaret Mary, it would be preferred if it was dedicated to Catholic Tradition, only. This may one day happen, but wouldn’t it be better if at least here and there, the bishop (and Bishop Barber seems to be trying to do a good job there) would dedicate one church strictly to Traditional sacraments.
Still, you are correct, St. Margaret Mary is a much better example than most in the Oakland Diocese of being a faithful Catholic parish.
For everyone (Priests includeded) who think the next step Father Illo will take is not allowing women as Eucharistic Ministers of Communion or on the altar at all……I was at Mass at Star of the Sea this morning (what a treat) and there
was a woman Eucharistic Minister and two other women on the altar helping with the Gospel of Our Lord’s Passion!!!
I only wished I lived closer…..I definately would make it my parish :)
Elizabeth– you were NOT at the Tridentine Mass, on Palm Sunday, (today!) at Star of the Sea Church, in San Francisco!! At the Tridentine Mass, so beautiful and HOLY— there are always only the priest and altar boys!! In the traditional and true Church, where the Mass of All Time has been offered since the time of Christ– the men are to imitate Christ, and the women are to imitate the Blessed Mother! The priest is our “alter Christus” on the altar! The altar of God is TOO HOLY, anyway– for lay people! Our Church is HOLY, established by Christ, to teach us, to sanctify us, and prepare us all for Heaven! It is NOT for the silly whims, of the “fallen,” sinful secular world!! This morning, I talked with the priests, and they were quite confident, regarding their plans! They are also sensitive to the needs of the lay people, and understand their situation (lack of catechesis, etc. etc.) which is good! They do not take the silly secular (non-Catholic) media seriously, nor the false cries and misunderstandings, of non-Catholics — fantastic! They follow ONLY CHRIST– and also, they want to bring in TEACHING NUNS to the school! Wonderful!!
No Linda Maria I was not at the Latin Mass today at Star of the Sea!
But, the Mass I attended was still the BEAUTIFUL MASS OF OUR GOOD LORD AND SAVIOR!!!
I think there is room for both styles!
Peace be with you Linda Maria!
At Star of the Sea Church in San Francisco— it is still the plan of the priests, to gradually phase out lay women lectors and Eucharistic Ministers, on the altar, for Novus Ordo Masses– and altar girls, for the school Novus Ordo Masses. They decided to change giving blessings for non-Catholic school children, from doing it at Communion time, to doing the blessings after Mass, because at Communion time, it was too distracting. Blessings were requested, because these children were not eligible to receive Holy Communion. Well– I am sure they are only required to show up for the classes at the school, for which parents paid– NOT Catholic Masses and religious devotions! I was told that there are few Catholic families left, in inner cities, so to stay open, many Catholic schools changed their format, and accepted a lot of non-Catholic children, whose parents requested to be admitted, thinking these schools to be better than pubic schools. But the priests really would like to bring in teaching nuns, and increase Catholic enrollment– and “Catholic identity!”
It is FRAUDULENT to advertise oneself as a CATHOLIC School, and then not be Catholic.
Any Parents (of any Faith) who believe otherwise are ignorant.
The MISSION of all Catholic Schools MUST include teaching the Catholic Faith to all students, not converting non-Catholics but to teach the Faith accurately.
“….the CATECHISM has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians, and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine,
enabling EVERYONE to know what the Church professes, celebrates, lives, and prays in her daily life.” – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg xiv)
Rather than donating to the CCHD, Catholic Charities, and CRS of the USCCB, Diocese residents must donate to poor parishes so the poor children of their Diocese can have tuition and books paid, and temporal needs met – SUBSIDIARITY.
If any Catholic School must be made smaller to accommodate interested parents, then so be it. Truth must prevail.
No Priest may change the LITURGY of the Mass.
Blessings for non-Catholics may be at Communion time or immediately after Mass only.
Non-Catholics may not receive Holy Communion because they do not believe as we believe. (CCC 1355).
If I were the Bishop of a Diocese— I would open small parish schools, to teach the children of parishioners, and to deeply inculcate the daily practice of our Catholic Faith and Morals! I would close the Church to non-Catholics, unless a good reason existed, for their participation– and even then, they must respect our Church! We would then have a much better, much stronger, and much holier Church, with good future religious vocations of priests and nuns– and good future Catholic marriage and family life, once these children grew up! Many devout Catholics have been homeschooling, since the late 1960’s and early 1970’s– and when these devout Catholic children grew up, they married other devout Catholics of homeschooling families, had children, and homeschooled! Homeschool families usually get together, so the children have many good Catholic friends, with a good upbringing and good morals! These families seek out one or two good, orthodox priests, for Mass and the Sacraments. If we had small but excellent orthodox, “Catholic-only” parish schools, the Church would flourish, and the need to homeschool would diminish or disappear. The Catholic “identity” problem would also disappear! Teaching orders of nuns could teach the kids, and the focus should be only on a solid Catholic education, with daily practice of our Faith and Morals! No “frills,” no big expenses, no government money (sacrifice all of this!)– just do like the devout Catholic homeschoolers, that’s all!! This is where the real Church is!
Only the Priest is a “Eucharistic Minister”.
“EXTRAORDINARY Ministers of Communion” (of either sex) are ONLY to be used in case of large crowds receiving Holy Communion.
It is an abuse otherwise.
General Instruction of the Roman Missal:
QUOTE: – GIRM: ” # 162. In the distribution of Communion the Priest may be assisted by other Priests who happen to be present.
If such Priests are not present and there is a truly large number of communicants, the Priest may call upon extraordinary ministers to assist him, that is, duly instituted acolytes or even other faithful who have been duly deputed for this purpose.
In case of necessity, the Priest may depute suitable faithful for this single occasion. ” – UNQUOTE.
Pete, isn’t it a wonderful thing that at so many of our parishes the crowds are so large that we need EMC’s? Even in smaller parishes, it takes two people to serve communion; one for the bread and one for the wine, Body and Blood. Some countries allow intiction, so that one person could give communion in smaller parishes or use less EMC’s in larger ones. With a church filled with 1,000 people at Sunday Mass, it is hard to imagine a single Priest serving communion.
Bob One, since many Priests do not teach about SACRILEGE from the pulpit, I fear that some Laity are receiving Holy Communion – mechanically and Sacrilegiously (while in the state of Mortal Sin).
1 Cor 11:27-30; Mt 7:6; CCC 2120.
If people could answer anonymously, it would be interesting to know the number of those 1000 who do a daily and/or weekly examination of conscience.
We know that some Cardinals & Bishops knowingly participate in Sacrilege by giving Holy Communion to some publically known to be in the state of mortal sin – like Catholic politicians and other Catholic laity who publically support or act upon:
abortion, euthanasia, contraception, and homosexual acts,
adultery, fornication, & viewing pornography.
When was the last time you heard this from the Pulpit along with listing at least the same Mortal Sins that I have listed?
CCC: ” 1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace.
Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must not receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.”
In order to receive absolution from a Mortal Sin: CCC: ” 1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place.
Contrition is “sorrow of the soul
and detestation for the sin committed,
together with the resolution not to sin again. ”
We know that during Eastertime, and Christmastime, there are many who only go to Mass at this time of year, yet they march up to receive Holy Communion. Even if they went through the outward sign of going to Confession – this is a Sacrilege and they made a sacrilegious Confession – since they do not intend to attend Mass every Sunday and Holyday of Obligation in the future.
Bob one, what about the Mortal/grave 7 CAPITAL SINS (CCC 1866)
in addition to the 8 Mortal Sins mentioned by PETE ?
PRIDE, AVARICE (Greed), ENVY, WRATH (Anger), LUST, GLUTTONY (food, alcohol, drugs); SLOTH (laziness).
Not to mention the Mortal Sins of SCANDAL, and CALUMNY.
Many Catholics are receiving Holy Communion in the state of Mortal Sin – SACRILEGE
And the proof is that so few go to Confession.
The Bishops and Priests will be held accountable because they did not teach (CCC 1868),
and the Laity will be held responsible for their SLOTH in not reading Sacred Scripture and the CCC at home.
There are no legitimate excuses in the USA among the literate. Catholic Bibles and the CCC are available not only in books but also the internet and apps for all electronic devices.
DO NOT REJOICE because someone goes to Holy Communion, rejoice when they go to Confession. (And not many do.)
They must not be in the state of Mortal sin for Holy Communion.
Bob One asks, “Pete, isn’t it a wonderful thing that at so many of our parishes the crowds are so large that we need EMC’s? = No, Bob One it is NOT wonderful that a deliberately manufactured priest shortage ( Read Goodbye Good Men) allowed so many people to be so foolishly lulled and duped into thinking how wonderful it is to grab just ANY living, breathing, or willing body from the crowd to help distribute Holy Communion. A man that I know who was once selected to be a extraordinary eucharistic minister of Holy Communion at his parish admitted that he was shocked to later learn that even those who were shacking up in his parish were allowed to become extraordinary eucharistic ministers. Initially this man admitted that for him it was a big huge ego boost that he was specially chosen or picked out of the large crowd and it made him very angry when some people tried to educate him on why this practice is being abused. This man was very wealthy but he became wealthier in his Catholic faith and he then realized how this practice WAS being terribly abused. This all took place before I met this individual and he later admitted that many who were selected were not even living good lives. He then educated himself on the matter. He soon discovered that he did not have the properly formed training nor even the right and proper attitude to be doing this.
Bob One, the Blessed Sacrament, and the altar on which the miracle of Transubstantiation occurs– belongs rightfully to the priest! It is HOLY!! Extraordinary Lay Ministers of Holy Communion, were allowed in Vatican II, due to the priest shortages– and were originally meant for only extreme, or “extraordinary,” circumstances! But this privilege has been sadly abused! There were always tons of priests around, before Vatican II, to help out with Communion, at all the Masses! Deacons in their final year of seminary training, were also allowed to help give Communion. It was one of their privileges! Before Vatican II, most all Catholics knew their Catechism, and the requirements for holiness, for being in a state of grace– and what was necessary, for proper reception of Holy Communion, as well as all the Sacraments. Everyone had much more respect for the Blessed Sacrament, and for the Church! We need to return to a truly authentic, holy Catholic Church! The altar, and the Blessed Sacrament– belong properly to the priest!
The abuses still continue. Purple Barney Halloween Mass in Orange County Ca. and a pink Barney Mass in Poland. There is nothing new under the sun. How unbelievably revealing, childish and embarrassing to have fellow priests gather like a cackle of clucking hens to attack and undermine a brother in Christ for simply desiring a reverent Mass that is pleasing to God instead of pleasing and entertaining “the un-catechized crowd.”
Gaudete Sunday in Katowice Poland
Read the link below how Alice Von Hildebrand was treated by fellow instructors at Hunter College. Alice Von Hildebrand’s students voted her the most popular for teaching the “full truth.” Some of her students who are now in their 70’s have written to her. They converted to Catholicism because of her teaching the full truth, even while she was also being assailed.
You can be sure that when true genius or when true signs of holiness appear then these individuals will surely be assailed by a confederacy of unbelieving dunces.
Taken from Catholic World Report by Jim Graves
Alice von Hildebrand: Reflecting on a Life of Teaching, Scholarship, and Prayer
Vatican II was a disaster, and its effects are even worse. The council was hijacked by liberals, whom Pope John XXIII could not and would not control. It’s original content was good, but ‘the road to hell is paved with good intentions’. The Mass was not supposed to be tampered with, but liturgical time bombs were in place. You do not believe me? The Mass has changed rapidly every decade. How it is celebrated is vastly different from the way it was in the 1980’s. Altar girls, Communion under Both Species, little or no reverence, prolonged kiss of peace, hilding hands at the Our Father, etc. Novus Ordonarians are those who think there is nothing wrong with the new Mass. Many of them are good, faithful Catholics, but slowly but surely their faith is being diluted. They are becoming Protestants. The majority of people who attend the Tridentine Mass, not only the indult Mass, but also those celebrated by SSPX priests, once went to the Novus Ordo, but got fed up with the liturgical romper room experiments which occur almost weekly. These are the facts, pure, simple and true. You can refute them, but to no avail.
Pope John XXIII called the Second Vatican Council into existence in Oct. 1962, and closed under Pope Paul VI in 1965.
Pope John XXIII died in June 1963.
Documents of Vatican II were promulgated by Pope Paul VI from Dec 1963 through 1965.
No Synod or Council can approve anything without the concurrence of the sitting Pope.
Abuses of the Ordinary Form (aka OF, Novus Ordo) of the Mass include but are not limited to holding hands, laity raising their arms by mimicking the Priest, giving the sign of Peace to those who are not nearest – are the fault of Bishops and Priests who do not correct the Laity.
These violate GIRM – the General Instruction of the Roman Missal
Vatican II never said anything about approving ALTAR GIRLS, or getting rid of Altar rails. You can thank the likes of Cardinal Bernardin and others for these.
The Lutheran Church in the Castro has an altar rail. Everyone who goes to communion kneels there to receive from the minister, unless she or he is infirmed. At the end of communion, the minister even says a nice little blessing: “May the Body of our Lord Jesus Christ and his Precious Blood, strengthen and preserve you unto everlasting life. Depart in peace.” I can’t remember if they hold hands during the Our Father, but I don’t think they do. Maybe you would like to join their parish?
We should ask the Lutherans who are reverent to join the Catholic Faith.
Since they believe in the Body and Blood of Our Lord, it appears they respect Jesus more than many Catholics – based upon your post.
Phil 2:10 “that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,”
CCC: ” 201 To Israel, his chosen, God revealed himself as the only One: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD; and you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.”
Through the prophets, God calls Israel and all nations to turn to him, the one and only God:
“Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.. . To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. ‘Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength.’ ” Isa 45:22-24.
You YFC need to repent with the resolution to sin no more,
and make restitution for your posts that promote mortal sin – either directly or indirectly,
or you will be going to Hell for eternity.
The choice is yours, but since you don’t know when your last day on earth will be – you might want to consider repenting soon.
Since you frequent a Catholic blog, and know about the Bible and the CCC ‘ignorance’ will not be a legitimate excuse when you are judged by Jesus.
Thanks for Watching.
Your Fellow Catholic, you are the heretic who wishes to remain obstinate in your sin.
You should leave if you have no desire to repent.
Hi Sidney, nice to see you again!
Thank you ED for your post. Far too many blame V II, when they should be blaming some bad Cardinals/Bishops, Priests and Laity.
Ed, remember that we are a Roman (Italy) church where if it is not forbidden, it is permited. :)
Bob One do ever get tired of being wrong all the time….funny you probably have a problem with people kneeling to receive communion,…but holding hands during the Lords prayer well of course, its all in the name of tolerance….I remember one time when I can trying to come back to the Church this nonsense was going on…some woman tried to grab my mind, I snapped it back so fast and walked out…
grab my hand…ugh…not mind no one would are try and do that
That is absolutely FALSE Bob One. GIRM is required of all of us.
Otherwise we could pat our heads and rub our bellies while turning circles up and down the isles, while singing when the “Saints go marching in”
This Bishop says it better than I can.
No person, not even a priest can add, change or remove anything from the Liturgy.
Are you a person ?
Good comments ED.
According to what many conservative and traditional Catholics believe, the Third Secret of Fatima, which was supposed to be revealed in 1960, was about not having a council, because the council would cause havoc in the Church. A proof of this is what Pope John XXIII said, concerning the doomsayers, prophets of doom, and all other references of those who were against a council. There are many scholarly books written, not by SSPX, or by followers of Fr. Gruner, who bring up this fact. THE RHINE FLOWS INTO THE TIBER is one such book. The new Church is like new Coke; a disaster.
Pilar, it is not helpful if you can not prove your statement by linking to an official Church document. Sounds like you came across some heretics regarding the 3rd secret of Fatima.
Sidney, the book Pilar cites, “The Rhine Flows Into the Tiber”, is a well-recognized mainstream Catholic book by Monsgr. Ralph Wiltgen, which documents what she says, as well as the furious turbulence that succeeded in a revolutionary movement at the time of Vatican Council II. Feel free to rely only on “official Church documents”, but you are not going get the whole picture, and note that V2 recommended historical studies of liturgy, scripture and history, by the way (see the Constitutions Verbum Dei, Sacrosanctum Concilium, for just two examples.).
As someone that has been called “too passionate about my faith” by my Pastor,I was dismissed from teaching Confirmation.
As a woman of faith, I humbled myself before the Lord and do His bidding, not mine. I was moved by the Holy Spirit to step down from the altar as an EM. Jesus called “men” to be on the altar, not women……so be it!
None of the Protestant churches has the Divine Presence. We as Catholics are totally forbidden to receive their ‘communion. Except for Baptism, and Marriage, their ‘sacraments’ are invalid. Pope Leo XII said that Anglican Orders were also invalid. So, instead of having the Blessed Sacrament in their churches, the only thing there is the divine absence.
“Wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them”. Is that what you mean, Pilar, by “the divine absence”?
Sidney, if you read correctly what I wrote, I said that even people who are not followers of SSPX or Father Gruner (neither group is heretical, that is, against faith or morals) believe that Vatican II was hijacked. And for your information, Mother Angelica publically announced on her show that the truth about the 3rd Secret was not revealed. Mother Angelica is not a heretic, and is mainstream Catholic. The Church documents would never say anything against Vatican II.
Pilar, Private revelations are not part of the Doctrine of the Faith – Deposit of the Faith.
CCC: ” 67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church.
They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history.
Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.
Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”. ”
CCC: ” 2111 Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes.
It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary. To attribute the efficacy of prayers or of sacramental signs to their mere external performance, apart from the interior dispositions that they demand, is to fall into superstition. ”
Mother Angelica resigned from EWTN on March 20, 2000.
She suffered her first serious stroke July 3, 2000, and her second serious stroke Dec 31, 2001.
A sacramental presence is stronger than a spiritual presence, any Catholic worth his salt should know that. God is present in all His creatures; He created everything, and so there is a reflection of God in creation. Gerald M. Hopkins wrote that ‘ the world is charged with the grandeur of God.’ However, Christ’s presence, in the sacraments, especially in the Blessed Sacrament. is stronger than all these other presences. The Protestants do not share traditional Catholic belief, and unfortunately most Catholics do not either. The Orthodox Churches have a valid Eucharist, but the Protestants do not. Therefore there is a divine absence in the Protestant churches. I rest my case.
Altar girls are part of the Satanic sodomites’ plan to at the same time feminize boys and drive them from the priesthood..
As any real Catholic knows, God is omnipresent, He is present everywhere. He created all things, and His reflection is seen in all His creatures. The sacramental presence of Christ in the sacraments of the Catholic and Orthodox churches is a special presence. It is a mystery, and this presence is more perfect than the presence of Christ in the Scriptures, and when two or three are gathered in His Name. A sacrament is an outward sign, instituted by Christ, that gives us grace. The Reformed and Protestant churches do not share in the power to confer validly the sacraments. Except for marriage and baptism, their sacraments are not real. Our Lord, therefore is not present in a sacramental way in their communion services. Therefore there is a divine absence in their communion. This is traditional Catholic teaching, and it cannot be changed however much you may argue or disagree with me.
It can help but be noted that the discussion also has devolved into an argument against the centuries-old tradition of kneeling at the Catholic liturgy.
This in itself shows the futility of facts in the present chaos of the Church: for example, that Jesus kneels in Gethsemane (Luke 22:41, even present in the Greek original), that the centuries-old tradition is documented in art from Giotto to Fra Angelico and on, and by the way, Bob One, there are kneelers at St Peter’s both in the Adoration Chapel (to the right,near the Pieta shrine, as you enter) and also in the daily Mass “chapel” area under Bernini’s Throne of St Peter behind the high altar)—-all this is irrelevant.
It is irrelevant because objective fact and truth can be wiped out by the stroke of a pen and a new “instruction” by some clergyman, no matter how “authoritative” he represents himself to be.
Abp. Annibale Bugnini, president of the Consilium commission in 1965:
“We must strip from our Catholic prayers and the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren, the Protestants.”
By the way, the book, “The Rhine flows into the Tiber,” received a nihil obstat and imprimatur from Cardinal Terence Cooke. This is for Sydney, if it matters.
Private revelations are not part of the faith, but they can be a part of living and true history. I think the Italian dictator had a relative, who was a nun, and she told him not to be friendly with Hitler because if he did, the Italian would land up worse than Napoleon. Pope Leo XIII had a vision, and so did Pope St. Pius V, and St. John Bosco, to name just a few.. One does not have to believe these, but they contain nothing contrary to the faith, and can also lead souls to sanctity.