On February 11, Father Richard Perozich, pastor of St. Mary’s parish in Escondido, California, wrote the following:
“Pornography, fornication, prostitution, masturbation, homosexuality and adultery have no place in religion nor in society – and certainly not in scouting.”
On May 25, after the Boy Scouts decision to allow openly homosexual scouts, Father Perozich was quoted on the Renew America website on pulling out the support of his parish:
“I would not allow a child under my care to be near either another child or an adult who identifies with, encourages acceptance of, or practices homosexuality. Our parish gave material support to the Scouts in our region until yesterday.
“We have withdrawn financial aid but will support them with prayer so that the adults retreat from their cowardice before the evil of homosexuality and its perpetrators, and be about protecting and forming young men according to classic Scout values in accord with Catholic teaching.”
To read the item on the withdrawal of support for the boy scouts, click here.
(Editor– this link appears to be broken; instead, just look on Google News for “Perozich and Boy Scouts.”)
To read Father Perozich’s full comments on February 11, click here.
Priests should obey the CCC. If he doesn’t want to give money to the boy scouts, fine. But homosexuality is not a sin unless acted on and homosexual persons are not supposed to be unjustly discriminated against. CCC 2358
You forgot this:
“Homosexual acts [are] acts of grave depravity … Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered … Under no circumstances can they be approved … [Homosexuality] is objectively disordered … Homosexual persons are called to chastity.” CCC 2357-2359
Sexual conduct precludes membership in the boy scouts.
This has nothing to do with sex acts, nor is the BSA condoning youth having sex. This has to do with the BSA recognizing that it had been discriminating against boys who identify as gay.
This priest isn’t taking a “stand against sodomites” as you say below, he’s taking a stand against kids who find themselves having to deal with the very difficult reality that they are growing up with a same-sex attraction. How on earth can isolating them from other kids their own age help them in any way? Is your idea that the chaste life for these youth a life devoid of socialization? Devoid of the possibility of forming life long friendships?
It’s kind of hard to live up to Christ’s call to treat these kids with their God given dignity by ostracizing them and calling them names (sodomites) not for anything they’ve ever done, but because they find themselves attracted to through no fault of their own.
Whatever one thinks of same sex activity, I don’t see how people can make a blanket attack on gay kids, call them names, equate them with prostitutes as does Father Richard Perozich, simply because they’re gay. Since when does being Catholic mean being licensed to be cruel to kids?
Shame of Fr. Perozich.
So called “St. Peter”,
How on earth do you dare call yourself St. Peter? You are lucky that St. Peter himself has not been able to address you. If you are not careful, God may just allow the 1st Vicar of Christ to do just that. Pray that it isn’t on your judgment day.
How dare you attack a true and loyal priest who rightfully sees as his primary duty to protect the faithful God has placed under his good and strong care!
As a 30 year plus Scouter, I can attest that we never asked a boy about his sexual orientation. The only way that would come out is if that boy announced it as he “came out”. Then and only then would action to remove him from the other boys be taken. This whole rotten move is nothing more than these sodomites pushing to FORCE others to accept their morally sick lifestyles.
I recently sadly resigned my positions in my beloved Boy Scouts of America and I know many others will do likewise.
Viva Cristo Rey!
May God have mercy on America.
Kenneth M. Fisher
Being cruel to kids is helping them to lose their souls, that so called St. Peter is the ultimate cruelty
The big issue here is what people think will happen now. Those of us who think that the policy still limits boys from any sexual conduct or speech, are not having an issue with it. Those who believe that gay youth will declare that they right to act in a manner inconsistent with virtue and religion are having big problems with it. So if all of the Scouters who would hold the line leave, what will happen?
You are wrong! There is a much bigger issue going on here! The bigger issue is….
1. Why are you hiding? 2. Why are you soooooo doggone obsessed with young boys acting in a manner that is inconsistent with virtue?
C-R-E-E-P-Y, C-R-A-W-L-Y……to say the least.
Catherine, if they act inconsistent with virtue, then they are removed from Scouts. I know that a lot of people think it is not worth the risk, but, it’s their organization. Now for your implication that I am obsessed with young boys acting in a manner like that…I would hate to think that you are so unchristian, so uncharitable and so snide, sneaky and snaky that you meant something dirty that no virtuous person would even think…but I could be wrong.
perozich only works for “courage” because he cannot legally throw live gays into crematory ovens.
“Is your idea that the chaste life for these youth a life devoid of socialization? Devoid of the possibility of forming life long friendships?”
Surely not, because Fr. Perozich is associated with Courage, a support group that encourages faithful Christians with same-sex attraction to form such healthy friendships. The issue with the BSA is its decision to include a “child or an adult who identifies with, encourages acceptance of, or practices homosexuality”. To identify with same-sex attraction is to label oneself gay, lesbian, etc. instead of a son or daughter of God. This crosses the line from attraction to approval.
No, The Boy Scouts Did Not Decide To Include Boys Like That. That was Father’s interpretation of it. Please read the Boy Scouts statement.
Scouting is about camping, merit badges, meetings with leadership training and various events that mix fun with team effort, adventure and acquisition of skills. Scouting has always accepted all boys with homosexuality never being an issue until recently. Sexual identity is part of human growth and development. It would be a big mistake to discriminate against boys whose sexual identity appears to be different from the majority. Scouting has never and should never put such identity under a microscope for criticism or ostracism.
Homosexuality is not a ” sexual identity (that) appears to be different from the majority”. It is simply a damaged heterosexuality. The damage can come from many causes. See a list below from the Catholic Medical Association’s document, Homosexuality and Hope (November, 2000):
“Individuals experience same-sex attractions for different reasons. While there are similarities in the patterns of development, each individual has a unique, personal history. In the histories of persons who experience same-sex attraction, one frequently finds one or more of the following:
Alienation from the father in early childhood, because the father was perceived as hostile or distant, violent or alcoholic, (Apperson 1968 ; Bene 1965 ; Bieber 1962 ; Fisher 1996 ; Pillard 1988 ; Sipova 1983 )
Mother was overprotective (boys), (Bieber, T. 1971 ; Bieber 1962 ; Snortum 1969 )
Mother was needy and demanding (boys), (Fitzgibbons 1999 )
Mother emotionally unavailable (girls), (Bradley 1997 ; Eisenbud 1982 )
Parents failed to encourage same-sex identification, (Zucker 1995 )
Lack of rough and tumble play (boys), (Friedman 1980 ; Hadden 1967a )
Failure to identify with same/sex peers, (Hockenberry 1987 ; Whitman 1977 )
Dislike of team sports (boys), (Thompson 1973 )
Lack of hand/eye coordination and resultant teasing by peers (boys), (Bailey 1993 ; Fitzgibbons 1999 ; Newman 1976 )
Sexual abuse or rape, (Beitchman 1991 ; Bradley 1997 ; Engel 1981 ; Finkelhor 1984; Gundlach 1967 )
Social phobia or extreme shyness, (Golwyn 1993 )
Parental loss through death or divorce, (Zucker 1995)
Separation from parent during critical developmental stages. (Zucker 1995)
Anonymous you should obey the faith…..it is you who just dissented here…shame on you!
I did not dissent. Sorry if you don’t like it but that is the Catholic Faith,
Abeca, CCC 2358 says, unaltered: “The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. ”
That is the faith, Abeca, and anonymous is not wrong to hold YOU to the whole of it, and not just those parts that allow you to savage others. Anonymous was not disobedient, but you clearly were.
David you are also erring your interpretation …shame on you too!
I didn’t interpret, Abeca. I stated word for word what the Catechism states, directly from the Vatican website. If you don’t like it, please just admit you’re not Catholic and have set yourself as your own antipope.
Anony you are wrong in your interpretation! Shame on you!
Abeca Christian, David gave you a quote from the catechism. Read what St. Peter said. Real kids are being hurt here.
So, Anonymous, you’re saying that the Church up until the CCC was not the Church?! Read St Paul on legalism, and then repair to a remote hermitage for 20 years for your penance.
The Catholic Church has always held that homosexuality not acted on was not sinful.
Good comments SKAI!
No, Skai, the CCC is not the Church; it is the “TEACHING” of Christ’s Church.
The CCC includes all those things REQUIRED of us by Jesus and also His Church. (Mt 16:18-19)
All literate persons should read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” to accurately know their Faith.
Ignorance of the contents of the CCC – is not an excuse for sin – for all those who are literate.
CCC: “1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man takes little trouble to find out what is true and good,
or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.
In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.”
“ In this Year of Faith let us ask ourselves if we have actually taken a few steps to get to know Christ and the truths of faith more, by reading and meditating on the Scriptures, studying the Catechism, steadily approaching the Sacraments. ” – Pope Francis 5/13/2013
k, Will you wholeheartedly support and uphold what Father Perozich wrote?
I can’t see what he wrote. The link does not work.
Sorry, that anonymous was me. My computer crashed.
Oh I just realized that part of it was from an old article. I do not know what is on the first link.
Anonymous you are correct, that homosexuals are not to be discriminated against.
However, there is no reason for children to publically declare their sexuality at ages 9 – 18. And when boys or their parents feel the need to publically declare sexual preferences (which leads to sexual activity) in the Scouts – there is a reason that is not wholesome and perhaps nefarious.
Setting examples of what is and is not sinful for children is very important.
Teaching RELATIVISM by example – that there is no right or no wrong – is harmful to children.
The CCC must be taken as a whole. Not only one passage. So in addition to the one you quoted, here is another.
CCC: “2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.”
“This catechism is conceived as an organic presentation of the Catholic faith in its entirety. It should be seen therefore as a unified whole.” (CCC page 11)
Oscar, even if we agree with the way you attempt to take the CCC as a whole, that does not permit a person to blatantly violate the plain text of a passage in favor of some abstract extraction of some contradictory truth. Either the CCC permits discrimination against gay people, or it does not. If it does permit discrimination, then it would have said it. Instead it plainly said that unjust discrimination against gay people is not permitted.
Give us the whole quote and nothing but the whole quote!
May God have mercy on your soul,
Kenneth M. Fisher
YFC, the CCC does not disallow all discrimintation. It does not permit unjust discrimination. A key word here is unjust. There may be conditions where discrimination is allowed.
YFC, also see my 5/28 11:17am post.
“Either the CCC permits discrimination against gay people, or it does not.”. So you say that refusing to affirm a boy in his deviant sexuality which will lead his soul to be lost to Hell is discrimination?
It would be better to tell him that all homosexual acts are morally wrong and not to do them, than to confuse him by “accepting” him just as he is without saying anything more
Anon, in all Christian charity, you are mistaken. It must be said that to use YOUR logic is turning everything of value, including possibly the CCC and the Church, on it’s head. Fr. Rich is more than correct, he is truly teaching the Faith, as a faithful shepherd of the flock. He’s a wonderful example of what a priest ought to be, and I agree and commend him for his courageous statement, which I read in full, and in his pulling his support for the Scouts since their decision. I hope and pray that all other parishes will do the same, and take Fr. Rich’s statement as a guide to how to conduct themselves in this sad situation.
Life Lady you are kind, but these dissenters know no true Christian Charity when they see one or read one they are hostile and they support the so called “gay rights”. Many of them do.
Hey! Cut the crap! Pray for your priests and your families. This nation is out of control.
You certainly have that one right!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Please respond and let us know if you are the “anonymous” poster undermining this faithful priest? You were exposed for doing this same kind of underhanded attack/dissent and it appears that you are now trying a new way of comfortably hiding “anonymously” while undermining good priests. If you fail to tell us the truth then please at least answer if you support Father Perozich’s wise decision. I remember that you previously singled out two other very good priests and also tried to undermine them for their faithfulness? Both of the priests that you singled out were also defending Church teaching regarding homosexuality.
Catherine, what decision? Not to give money to the Boy Scouts. Of course. I don’t know why parish funds were going to the Boy Scouts in the first place. Praying for them? Of course I support that. I fully support all Church teaching on homosexuality as given in CCC, Persona Humana and Letter on Pastoral Care to Homosexual Persons. I am not undermining anyone. I posted as anonymous because my computer was crashed due to a update. All priests that I know defend the Church’s full teaching on homosexuality as do I. I would hope all priests would, though not all do. You will be interested in an article at stltoday[dot] com on a gay priest who stopped doing Mass and wrote a book anonymously but now has come out.
Catherine you are missing the point that many of us have very clearly made: The CCC does not permit the kind of unjust discrimination against gay people that the prior Scout policy promoted. And rather than uphold that Church teaching, this priest would make Scouting unavailable to ALL the kids of his Parish. He is not a faithful priest if he is denigrating the CCC by his public statements and parish policies.
YFC, it’s amazing how quickly “devout” catholics become start “picking and choosing” the minute something in the CCC and in Church teaching doesn’t fit their tastes. This problem even extends to the Magesterium when they apply doctrine to real life situations.
How dare YOU of all people call Father Perozich unfaithful when it is you who is being an unfaithful sneaky and slippery snake crawling amongst the taller grass looking for willing recipients to inject your poisonous venom.
After reading today’s posts, I am sure that the irritated RB Rodda, MarkfromPa and the irritated JonJ will be attracted to your cleverly disguised snake oil that is packaged with ribbons and bows of deception in order to serve your collective religion of homosexuality.
YFC, Whoever you are …Satan really has a cruel and tight noose around your neck and he is getting you to do his serpent bidding.
Father Perozich is following the Teachings of the Catholic Church completely. He is being wise and obedient and he is protecting his flock from an organization that now embraces multiple opportunities for the near occasion of sin. You are the one who has selectively forgotten and omitted that instruction in the CCC from the looks of your openly admitted 22 year old homosexual lifestyle.
Father Perozich is responsible to God for each and every lamb that God has entrusted to him in his parish. I loved it when my own father and mother kept me safe from harm. It meant that they loved me and that they truly cared about my well being. Many parents caved in and let there children be surrounded by influences that damaged their souls and their lives. You represent the parents who took the easy way out but they and their children paid dearly down the road. Thank God for good and wise parents and than God for wise and courageous priests who protect their flocks from those evil forces who are prowling about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Those forces have crawled into the BSA and the good Father is telling his flock to stay away from such influences for their children.
Catherine, I’m sorry but you are incorrect. The good Father is choosing to ignore the plain text of the Catechism in the exercise of his presbyteryal duties, which is leading people like you to similarly disregard the Catechism, therein adding scandal to his sin.
I will personally call Fr. Rich Perozich tomorrow and thank him for being faithful to Christ and His Mother.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, 30+ year Scouter
Even CCD did not print his full statement, Catherine. Was it because they knew it was not 100% in conformity with the Catechism and Vatican documents? A Catholic priest who cannot or will not faithfully articulate the Church’s teaching on homosexuality (or anything else) should be corrected. If he had erred on the side of viewing homosexual orientation as good or benign, you would be all over him, calling him the devil.
YFC you are now out of line and we will stand up for this priest ….
Catherine, YFC had nothing at all to do with my position on this issue. In fact, at the root of much of my disgust with the Catholic Church on its actions with respect to this issue goes back to when I read Dale.
In Dale, the USCCB supplied an amicus (friend of the court) brief supporting the legal position that the Boy Scouts should be free to exclude boys PURELY ON THE BASIS OF ORIENTATION—e.g. possessing same sex attraction.
Oddly enough, I thought this was technically a correct legal position since the Boy Scouts are a private organization and have the fundamental constitutional right to free association. However, I saw this as an immoral position and contradictory to the CCC and multiple Church teachings on homosexuality.
Actions speak louder than words. Consequently, I concluded that the USCCB had allowed bigotry to cloud their reason. They should not have supported the Boy Scouts legal theory in Dale.
Too often, the Church has stood silently by and tacitly approved of denying homosexuals jobs, (such as supporting their exclusion from military service) participation in social events, and did little to object to the police brutality and harassment that homosexuals were frequently subjected to in the past—other than make some perfunctory remarks about how abuse shouldn’t happen before condemning homosexuality as mortal sin.
About the only time any Church official ever objected to abusive treatment was to offer throwaway boilerplate about how abuse was wrong, while justifying some kind of social exclusion. Soon after reading Dale, I saw an HBO special on a gay man who was interning with the brokerage firm of Cantor Fitzgerald. A Cantor-Fitzgerald senior manager discovered he was gay, and told this man that he should go to another city for “special instruction”.
While in flight, two men put paper bags over their heads, stole this man’s car, painted it black and white, and wrote things like “fudge packer” and “butt pirate” in spray paint all over the hood and trunk. All this was on video tape, and, as they displayed his car they spoke in mocking falsetto about “specific ways” to “reach” gay clients in order to persuade them to buy stock. When this man arrived the next morning for his “training” in this Cantor Fitzgerald office in another city, he was directed to a room with a VCR and TV, with this tape to play.
Subsequently, this management team engaged in a concerted pattern of harassment to get this gay intern to quit. As these senior managers very well knew, this man had no legal recourse because the Cantor-Fitzgerald employee agreement included an arbitration clause. Furthermore, homosexuality was not considered a suspect classification at that time, and thus was not protected by the equal protection clause (this rule has since changed in most jurisdictions due to states passing state constitutional protections for homosexuality).
Did Church officials condemn Cantor Fitzgerald’s actions directly? Not really. Instead, you heard Church officials railing against employee rights laws intended to protect homosexuals. While Church officers often gave throwaway lines about how homosexuals should not be abused, Church officers almost always condemned such state laws because the Church wanted to protect the right to exclude homosexual employees from jobs connected to religious institutions (which probably explains their support for Dale).
Thus, when so called “devout” Catholics here fail to call out the hatred spewed by posters like Skai and Canisius, they encourage them to treat people like the Cantor-Fitzgerald executives treated this intern.
The Catechism forbids UNJUST discrimination. We all discriminate, including you. It is humanly impossible not to do so. They should have kept the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Policy” with strict rules against any kind of sexual behavior being discussed or advocated. Boys should not be sent there for sex ed. The boys are supposed to be there to learn how to do virtuous things, such as First Aide and to learn survival and camping skills. Not to flaunt their sexuality. Period.
Anne, I agree with you that no one should be there to flaunt their sexuality, and this new policy is not about sex ed. But that is not what this policy allows. Please understand the policy before commenting futher.
What’s truly sad is that Mr. Perzovich is probably correct that his parish should not financially support the troop, but he chooses to do so on an inappropriate basis.
He could have said that, “Since the Catholic faith is one of inclusion, we believe that the Boy Scouts—and society in general—should welcome people who have SSA. However, our research indicates that the new scout policy will prohibit scoutmasters and scout leaders from teaching that homosexuality is contrary to the will of God.
Consequently, this parish must reluctantly withdraw financial support from our local scout troop. Parishioners donate to this parish in order to help us spread God’s Truth. As a result, I am duty bound to use the limited resources of this parish to support entities that help spread the full measure of that faith.”
Instead, Mr. Perzovich instead decides to support the idea that homosexuals should be rejected and excluded from the very activities that might help their problem. The truly disgusting part of Mr. Perovich’s rant is his implication that bigotry is part of the Catholic faith.
Mr. Perzovich needs to apologize to people in his parish who suffer SSA, and admit his error. However, I suspect from reading his diatribe, that Mr. Perzovich suffers from the same pride that allows Mr. Mahoney to think that he is worthy to exercise the office of Cardinal. I would like to think that Mr. Perzovich has the character to admit his error—but I’m not holding my breath.
NO JONJ it is you who needs to repent and apologize. Well enuff said on this topic for me….
Can any of you tell me why a boy in boy scout want people to know that he was leaning towards sodomy? what pourpose would it serve? Would anyone be interested to know that I am always tempted to waste money on Cadillacs?
This priest is a true godly man! God bless him for making such a strong stand. What a noble and true gentleman he is! He is a hero to God’s truth and message of chastity and more. I am so grateful to know that we have excellent pastors that are truly leading Christ’s flock. It takes a lot of courage and he is truly showing that here. Real men still exist, even in the priesthood….I pray that our younger men will learn from his excellent example. This priest is in our prayers, may he continue to be loyal to Christ and His church. I am grateful…God bless him!
It is amazing what a Godly man can do even though there is no instruction in the CCC2ndEd. It’s flabberghasting to say the least. You know I’m jabbing the bureaucrats who cannot do anything at all without a series of committees and then they never get anything done anyway. True leadership such as expressed and demonstrated by Fr Perozich is more rare than I had thought it would be. But at least we are given the grace of one leaders … maybe there will be more leaders stepping forth.
Skai I agree with you. As you can see how Anonymous badly used the CCC to discourage what this priest was doing, his actions are what the infant church would of done, we had many great church fathers, saints that would of done the same, way before the CCC 2nd edition came to be. My grandmum didn’t have the CCC in Mexico, but she sure knew the faith and lived and became the faith….she was holy and faithful… Glad you expose something much deeper than many lack to see or even comprehend. Plus I know that this holy priest would understand as well the excellent tools in the CCC (when used properly)and is much more intelligent than Anony made him out to be with his smirky comment!
Skai this priest is a true leader…we need to keep him in our prayers because not many priests are holy and faithful as he. He needs our prayers and support. I try to visit his parish a least one or twice every two months since I don’t live near by. But it’s always a nice treat to travel up there and just have a fun mini road trip with our kids.
This priests actions are noble and are what our early church fathers, saints would have us do…..is what I was trying to convey from my last post.
This priests actions….are courageous and holy…what Anony tried to do was just sneak in a deadly appetizer of more confusion….yes…. not much different from when the serpent convinced Eve….all it took was just a simple deadly appetizer….many bad will humans have learned to do the same trick on others as well….temptation has a huge price to pay, it’s consequence can be deadly if one does not repent.
It just has to be subtle not always having to be a big bang as some would expect. That is how the “gay’ agenda is taking over because they were subtle in the beginning, slowly infiltrating, now they don’t have to be subtle because many have bought their lies.
Abeca, chances are pretty good that your Grandmum didn’t have much use of the media – TV, computers, iPads, etc – that today promote heresy, schism, relativism, secularism, sexual promiscuity, violence, disobedience, and discourage family values and rights.
In fact prior to 1960 there were significant moral rules that the FCC upheld for TVs.
In fact, depending on her age – there were no contraceptive pills (USA in 1960), no morning after pills, etc.
Please don’t go against our Pope Francis who wants everyone to accurately know the Faith by reading the CCC.
The last 20 years are not what the world used to be like in your Grandmum’s days in Mexico (or in the USA for that matter).
Maddy how dare you falsely misinterpret what I am conveying…How dare you use our Holy Father in this too and accuse me of ill, you are in error and have also bear false witness to my devotion to the faith…I suggest confession!
I refuse to entertain your false notions or anyone else here who dissent from this good priests actions and what you just mentioned are irrelevant.
(trolls) More confusion and you call yourself Catholic. Go to confession as the saints would have ordered you as well with your appetizer of confusion! Honor this priest and his noble actions…shame on you!
I have refrained from posting Fr. statement out of deference to the editors who seem to have decided it was wise to omit it. If Father had taught the full teaching of the Church and had discussed his reservations about contributing to the Boy Scouts out of an abundance of caution, it would be a lot different. It seems that no other diocese or Catholic organization is reacting the same way that Fr. Perovich is. One diocese has said that it is prayerfully considering parting ways. Others have said they will continue as they always have, teaching Catholic morality.
Skai, it is clear that you have never read the CCC.
The Priest is practically quoting directly from the CCC #2396.
“Pornography, fornication, prostitution, masturbation, homosexuality and adultery have no place in religion nor in society – and certainly not in scouting.” – Fr. Perozich
“CCC: 2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.”
(Adultery and prostitution are covered in other paragraphs.)
Skai – why do you keep attacking the CCC in so many of your posts?
“ In this Year of Faith let us ask ourselves if we have actually taken a few steps to get to know Christ and the truths of faith more, by reading and meditating on the Scriptures, studying the Catechism, steadily approaching the Sacraments. ” – Pope Francis 5/13/2013
OSCAR how about correcting/admonishing Anony on his attack on this priest….stop boring us with your same ole same ole going after Skai…he has explained himself before and he is not even once going against this priest but Anony just did….just because you don’t get skai…then pray about it!
Why are Catholics such easy prey to the tactics of the gay advocators, I just don’t get it! If they preach about the sacraments, they receive our Lord during Mass and yet many are sleeping right behind those who advocate gay lifestyles…even if they are not sleeping but they are no where near to admonishing them correctly because they are busy else where….self righteousness from some who preach to know the CCC but yet some bring more confusion.
This priest preached and is practicing the CCC but some are so blindly to that fact because they have other false passions.
Are you sure you are writing about Skai?
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
They are blinded by their SINS just as Our Lord said they would be.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Please see Catherine’s comment on Bishop Michael Barber Ordained May 28 3:52
Mr. Fisher, there are several issues here. One is the money and that is a small issue. One is the issue of disobedience to the CCC and that hinges on whether it is just or unjust discrimination, which there are different points of view on. The other issue (and it is huge) is how this priest changes slightly the writings from the Church and by doing that alters their meaning to be something that does not fully express the Catholic Truth. In his February statement, he substituted the word “homosexuality” instead of “homosexual acts”. In his statement which is not printed here, he altered a statement in a Vatican document by removing the words “more or less”. He grabbed a line in the CCC that applied to homosexual acts and applied it to homosexual attraction. When you speak with him, please ask him to clarify his error. It also seems as if he does not understand what the idea of identifying as gay means. It just means that one recognized and admits to oneself that one has an attraction to the same sex. It does not mean that one is comfortable with it or that one believes one can act on it or promote or defend it. We cannot accept immorality, but being a homosexual person is not immoral. It is self-indulgence in thoughts, words or deeds which is immoral. Everyone is saying the same thing-that homosexual boys have always been in the Boy Scouts. They just kept it to themselves, which in his February letter, Father seemed to indicate was desirable.
“disobedience to the CCC”: Anonymous, nice try slick, but there is no such thing as disobedience to a book, at least not in the Catholic Church. One obeys God of course, but a book?! The likes of some of you book idolaters is incredible: you quote some parts of it and then pontificate over it, dreaming that you somehow have been anointed by God to fill in for Him in this capacity. I don’t know what you are drinking but it is sure a whole lot different from the beer I rant about from time to time.
Wow, a real priest standing up for the faith and against the sodomites! Wish he were my pastor.
juergensen I agree….did you read anony’s comments…how shameful of him to try to use the CCC to it’s agenda. Shameful indeed and truly an evil act!
How dare him discourage priests from doing what is right and decent (but praise God, this priest from this article knows the faith well and won’t fall for this anony’s comments, but this priest is doing what he is suppose to be doing as a priest, and he knows better)
but NO these great evil doers come here not to learn but to sneak in and promote their ill ways….they are sneaky indeed, they infiltrate their filth….just the fact that he took the time to post that post of confusion against the action of this good devout priests, says it all!
Yes I’m furious…..I have the Holy Ghost giving me courage to speak it and point out what many keep missing, that is how the gay agenda’s sneaked in….they are gaining more power and now they want the church to lean on their worldly understanding and they sway many to lean away from God’s understanding!
I rebuke all evil doers who keep destroying our church and it’s truth….for it is their allowing the evil one to enter into their souls….darkness has a place and it has found itself in the sinners who bought the lie.
Now mind you, if you have those who are not sure, confused and mislead…a great mercy we have for all and us…mercy but many decent folks should know the difference! If not, we must pray for our Lord to protect us from the evil one and it’s deception…for he comes knocking often and loves our imperfections….we must pray that we do not fall trick to those lies, pray for our Lord to protect us….it could happen to any of us…In Jesus we must stay alert, if our sinfulness blinds us, lets beg and truly beg our Lord to spare us!
Start by looking up the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit. Your anger does not serve the Lord.
Neither does supporting the homosexual lifestyle.
We are talking about kids, here Joe, not about anyone engaging in a “homosexual lifestyle”. Their lifestyle is algebra, basketball teams, and campfires.
Anonymous, your understanding of “fruits” is not what St Paul was talking about.
I look to be like minded with Christ…His anger against those who hate the natural law is mine. Anony I;m not backing down, if that is what you are after…stop making this about me personally…which is not…it’s about the truth and what is noble.
See how the dissenters work…they distract others away from this noble Priest’s actions. THEY attack the faithful and their person, who stand by this good and holy priest! That is why we need to pray for this priest because the dissenters won’t sleep, they will have your head on a plate.
Lay faithful seek others who are like minded and bind together in Christ, for where there is 2 or 3 or more gathered in HIS name, there is Christ, in their midst. Gather Faithful, allow no intimation from dissenters against the natural law, don’t let them get in your head twisting your goodness in Christ…they may twist and say stupid irrelevant things to distract, if you have to ignore them, then do so….we have been very charitable in many of these threads with the same posters and now there are many more trolls coming in to advance their gay agenda’s.. Wake UP!
Abeca Christian, from reading the page on Renew America, it seems as if this action, which you call noble, is because of a misunderstanding of the term “openly gay.” First of all, the Boy Scouts have not said anything with the term “openly gay.” They said that a Boy could not be denied membership based on sexual orientation or preference ALONE. They are talking about boys who are not sexually active. Secondly, after Fr. Perozich’s remarks is a writing by Cardinal Burke which I strongly recommend to you.
Able a, you are just like the gatekeepers His Holiness, Pope Francis, condemns. You don’t remind me of Our Lord Jesus Christ at all — he was not bitter, angry, shaming or condemning. You are all of the above. Who do you actually hope to bring to The Lord in this unChristlike way?
You apparently don’t even know that there is such a thing as just anger. Do you think Our Lord read poetry to those money changers in the Temple?
May God have mercy on your conniving and sick soul,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Kenneth M. Fisher, there is a just anger. And there is a self-indulgent anger. And there is a narcissistic anger. This article has shown who really defends the Faith and who manipulates the Faith for their own ends. It has been obvious for a long time, but now there is no doubt and no excuse. You have personally been affected by the Boy Scouts’ decision; you have decided to part ways with an organization which was an important part of your life. I respect you and your decision. I respect Fr. Perovich and his decision to also remove support from the Boy Scouts. If the Church or any bishop decides that Boy Scouts is no longer suitable for Catholic children, I will support them. However, I don’t support anyone who distorts Church teaching and/or attacks those who stand up for the Catholic Truth. If the Catholic Church teaches something they don’t agree with, they ignore it or challenge it or refuse it, often angrily. The Holy Spirit gives us docility and meekness. Jesus Christ said “Learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart.” God bless you, sir.
Frankly I don’t care what Anony thinks of me… : )
“I would not allow a child under my care to be either near another child or an adult who identifies with … homosexuality.” “The evil of homosexuality and its perpetrators.” This certainly isn’t Christian talk. It reminds me of how Germans in the 1930’s warned against association with the Jews. It seems to me that some are turning our children who are gay into “dirty Jews”. It seems that some priests do believe that the homosexual orientation is in and of itself gravely sinful. However, this is not Catholic Church teaching as anonymous pointed out.
So now if we want to protect children from gays we are Nazi’s. typical response of leftist PA… always defending gays no matter what….purge the gay filth
Mark from PA,
I am glad that you did not live during those times times. Mark would you have condemned the actions of the homosexual Nazis who raped and murdered so many young boys? Would you also defend the more masculine appearing homosexuals who murdered the effeminate homosexuals?
May 15, 2008
The truth about homosexuality and the Nazi Party
By Bryan Fischer
The Interfaith Alliance, a far-left religious advocacy group in Idaho, has accused Scott Lively, a scheduled speaker at this weekend’s “Shake the Nation” conference in Boise, of “bearing false witness” and of being “mean-spirited and hurtful.”
Lively’s crime? In his book, “The Pink Swastika,” Lively exposes a secret homosexual activists don’t want you to know about Nazi Germany: that although the Nazis did persecute homosexuals, the homosexuals the Nazis persecuted were almost exclusively the effeminate members of the gay community in Germany, and that much of the mistreatment was administered by masculine homosexuals who despised effeminacy in all its forms.
Ludwig Lenz worked at the Sex Research Institute in Berlin, which was destroyed by Hitler’s Brown Shirts in 1933 likely because its records, including 40,000 confessions from members of the Nazi Party, would have exposed the sexual perversions of Nazi leadership. Lenz said that “not ten percent of the men who, in 1933, took the fate of Germany into their hands, were sexually normal.”
In fact, the Nazi Party began in a gay bar in Munich, and Ernst Roehm, Hitler’s right hand in the early days of Nazism, was well-known for his taste in young boys. William Shirer says in his definitive “Rise and Fall of the Third Reich,” not only that Roehm was “important in the rise of Hitler,” but also “like so many of the early Nazis, (he was) a homosexual.”
Hitler eventually had Roehm shot, not because he was a homosexual but because his influence over the Brown Shirts made him a political threat to Hitler’s control. The Roehm Purge, or “Night of the Long Knives,” was largely implemented by homosexuals.
Hitler’s Brown Shirts, the dreaded SA, better known as “Storm Troopers,” were the creation of another homosexual, Gerhard Rossbach, and Storm Troopers were almost exclusively homosexual. They also, sadly, comprised most of the leadership of the Hitler Youth, resulting in frequent instances of sexual molestation.
There of course is no question that the Nazis rounded up effeminate homosexuals and a great many of them died in slave labor camps as a result of mistreatment and disease. Historians estimate that less than one percent of Europe’s homosexual community died at the hands of the Nazis. While even one such death is too many, this pales in comparison to the 85% of Europe’s Jews who, unlike homosexuals, were sent to gas chambers.
Many of the guards and administrators responsible for concentration camp horrors were themselves homosexuals. Famous Nazi hunter Elie Weisel was sent to Auschwitz, where he discovered that the head of his part of the camp “loved children,” and observed that “there was a considerable traffic in young children among homosexuals there.”
A Nazi administrator at Treblinka, according to one historian, “had a harem of little Jewish boys” and “sought in Treblinka only the satisfaction of his homosexual instincts.”
In some camps, SS guards would actually sponsor lotteries to see which of the “young attractive homosexuals” would go to whom, while at the same time, according to one historian, they “lashed out with special fury against those who showed effeminate traits.” A Pink Triangle survivor said, “The ones who were soft were the ones who suffered terribly.”
The “Butch” homosexual guards and capos were capable of unrestrained cruelty, sadism and savagery. A guard at Auschwitz, for instance, strangled, crushed and gnawed to death as many as 100 boys and young men a day while raping them at his leisure.
Historian Frank Rector writes of a film made by the SS “that was secretly made for the enjoyment of a select coterie of Nazis showing a wild drunken orgy of beautiful boys and handsome young men being whipped, raped and murdered by the SS.”
Even today in America, it is chic in some homosexual circles for individuals to wear replicas of Nazi Germany uniforms, complete with iron crosses, storm trooper outfits, military boots and even swastikas.
Some parts of the American Nazi movement are explicitly homosexual. The National Socialist League, in fact, at last word restricts its membership to homosexual Nazis.
What’s the point here? Simply that there is another side to the constant refrain from homosexual activists who frequently mention the Nazi persecution of homosexuals and in so doing imply that Christians who oppose the normalization of homosexuality are in effect crypto-Nazis.
The truth is that Christians and certain portions of the homosexual community alike had much to fear from the Nazis.
As has been famously said, those who do not study history are condemned to repeat it. Nazi Germany became the horror that it was because it rejected both Christianity and its clear teaching about human sexuality. These are mistakes no sane culture should ever m
Catherine, I have a degree in History and have taken several courses in World War II, including German history and the Nazi era and I think you overstate the influence of homosexuals in the Nazi party. Yes, Ernst Rohm and many of his followers were homosexuals. But after he and some of his followers were killed, I think homosexuals had less influence in the Nazi party. After that time, Hitler was more interested in getting the support of Lutheran and Catholic Germans. You are correct that many effeminate homosexuals were killed, including some Catholic priests who were targeted.
PA, your degree in history does not evidently stand up well against the level of research demonstrated by Catherine, whose posts are or should be obviously post degree in quality. You’ve apparently little familiarity with graduate quality academics.
Skai, I took 5 graduate courses in History, including a course in Hitler and the Nazi Era. So I do have familiarity with graduate quality academics.
So now Mark from PA, you are even trying to make your false case that priests who were murdered by Hilter were killed because they were sodomites. You are one really really sick cookie,
“Not only those who do these things, but those who support them who do these things shall PERISH” St. Paul. Of course you know more about Jesus than the one who was knocked off of his horse. At least you culpably try to convince yourself that you do.
May God have mercy on your poor supporting of those who do those things soul.
Kenneth M. Fisher
Mr. Fisher, many of the homosexual priests that were killed were arrested in retaliation for the Encyclical “Mit Brennender Sorge” which angered Hitler. He did this to punish the Church. You use the term “sodomite” to refer to people with a homosexual orientation. I don’t use this word which you seem to get satisfaction out of using. You are the “sick cookie” here.
Mr. Fisher, many priests were killed by the Nazis. Before Hitler came to power in Germany, Catholics were told that it was sinful to vote for Nazis because of their racist views. So at that time Catholics were told not to vote for Nazis. In 1933, the Catholic Church made a Concordat with Germany. With this Concordat, the Church came to an agreement with the German government and for a short time relations were better between them. However, some priests and bishops were not happy with the Nazis. Two main points of contention were the Nazis euthanasia program with disabled people and also the treatment of Catholics of Jewish blood. On the other hand some bishops and priests were pro-Nazi. The mistreatment of priests after the Papal Encyclical “Mit Brennender Sorge” was pretty much limited to homosexual priests and perhaps a handful who had been outspoken against the Nazis. Pro-Nazi bishops and priests were left unmolested. When Germany invaded Poland in 1939, the Germans unleashed a wave of religious persecution against Catholic Poles. Many Catholic priests (especially in the western part of Poland which was annexed to the Reich) were arrested. Many were later executed or died in prison. Some 20% of Polish Catholic priests died as a result of Nazi terror. Bishop Splett of Danzig (Gdandsk) was a pro-German bishop. In his diocese priests were forbidden to preach or hear confessions in the Polish language. Rome remained silent about the religious persecution taking place in German occupied Poland. The Vatican wanted to maintain neutrality and did not want to antagonize the Germans. Not only 3 million Polish Jews died during the World War II years but 3 million Polish Catholics also died as a result of Nazi (& Soviet) terror.
Catherine, remember PA has a degree in history and he knows more than you and I, but he will reject Truth to its face…
What good are degree’s in anything but if you not have love that comes from our Lord and love for His natural law…then you have nothing….Degree’s are only great if they honor God.
Mark PA, what you fail to tell us is that it is the JEWISH Torah where we get the laws against sodomy. One of the reasons Hitler hated the Jews was that he had an infatuation with one of his own nieces, and Jewish and Christian law forbids sexual relationships with close relatives. It was FAITHFUL Jews that Hitler hated so much. In the end he turned to the occult and old German paganism. Does that sound familiar? Indeed it does. He tatooed the Jews and others also because he knew it was against the Jewish moral laws contained in the Torah (part of the Old Testament).
Salvation is truly from the Jews just as the Lord Jesus Christ said, and the Jewish law against sodomy is part of it.
The first link does not work.
I applaud CCD for alerting us to this. I have seen Fr. Perozich’s statement on his blog and it is not in conformity with Catholic teaching as expressed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Hopefully it is a typing error. I am pleased that CCD did not reprint it because it could lead to serious error in persons who were poorly catechized. He also seems confused about the change in policy of the Boy Scouts. The Boy Scouts expect members to behave in a right fashion. This is not an invitation for a member to behave sexually with, or promote homosexuality to, other members. Whether he contributes financially to a Boy Scout troop is up to him, but Father Perozich needs to reformulate his statement to accurately reflect the Church’s teaching.
Anonymous, your claim that Fr P’s blogging does not conform to Church doctrine is out and out ignorant, or worse, and probably intended to deceive readers. You often demonstrate a lack of knowledge of even the most basic of Catholic doctrines. Why don’t you simply try blogging from your own knowledge base using the reasoning process brought out by Aristotle and worked up far more by St Thomas Aquinas? All you do is state what amounts to sound bites, and your accuracy is poor.
I am trying not to repeat the error because there are many, including yourself, who would be vulnerable to it. I am not ignorant. Nor is it inaccurate. I have reviewed the CCC and the documents and confirmed his error.
These kids aren’t sodomites. They are kids. They may very well be virgins. But this priest has taken upon himself such a rigid view of things – a view which by the way is opposed to the Catechism – that many good people will leave the faith because instead of being presented with an image of Jesus who asked that ALL The children be brought to him, are being presented with a scornful God who casts aside all the children lest one…
YFC – Then why is it important for these children to publically declare sexual preference between the ages of 9 and 18 ? ? ? ?
Yes, ALL children should be brought to God.
Teaching them through example, words, or written documents., that Sodomy is an acceptable life style is wrong.
This is the current Scout Oath which will have to be changed.
“On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to GOD and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and MORALLY STRAIGHT.”
Skai, no one. Not one of us, has said that it is important for kids to declare their sexual orientation publicly at ANY age, let alone 9 to 18. Not one of us. All we are saying is that kids who are gay or who are perceived as being gay ought to be just as welcome as any straight kid. These kids aren’t engaged in sodomy, and if they are they ought to be treated the same as the straight kid next to them who engages in sex outside of marriage.
YFC, gay kids function differently because they are focused on depraved objectives and goals. Other boys gradually weed them out because of their malfunctioning.
Skai, do you always just make stuff up and write down the first things that pop into your head?
Boys reflect their good nature and do not have to “publicly declare their sex orientation”. This declaration business is total gay hype.
There is nothing about declaration of homosexuality in this issue.
Sorry I meant that for Maddy
Oh, honestly, YFC. Withdrawing support from a Boy Scout troop hardly represents casting children aside. There are many ways to help youth, some of which don’t require the adoption of paramilitary uniforms and nonsensical merit badges.
And in providing better oppportunities, not just sin, but occasions of sin and scandal must be avoided. If pairing up a 17-year, 11-month old gay Scout leaders with young boys isn’t the presentation of temptation, it isn’t clear what might be.
Not that virginity hasn’t been lost on Boy Scout campouts before now, which I alluded to before, but which Hormigito reminds us most specifically, below.
Brian S these kids have not been set aside…they were still attending but they are not preaching their homosexuality there…they are actually there enjoying good wholesome activities. These gay advocates would have us believe that there are victims here but NO that is not the real case!
Brian S, if a 17 year old gay Scout leader is mature and has respect for himself and the boys that he is in charge of, this shouldn’t be a problem or a temptation. Some here seem to have the mistaken idea that just because someone is gay that they can’t control themselves. If Scout leaders want to be respected then they have to earn that respect. It is very insulting to imply that because someone is gay that they can’t control themselves around children. Teachers have to deal with kids of the opposite sex and in most cases this isn’t a problem. Again, the posters that are in favor or gays being allowed in the Scouts have no issue with dismissing from the Scouts those that are inappropriate with children.
Mark, “some” may have the mistaken notion that because someone is gay they can’t control themselves, I do not. I assert that most boys, gay or not, control themselves.
I would not allow a boy to overnight with girls, however, no matter how confident I am in his, or in their, control.
Had I caught any jerk molesting any of my boys in our Troop, he would have learned what the Military taught me in hand to hand combat training. Any Scout Master I have known would proudly state the same thing. I also would remove any boy from the other boys if I had verifiable evidence of sexual activity of any kind. You apologist for sodomy are casting into the wind to see where your lies land.
May God have mercy on your damaged, very damaged souls,
I will cast my lot with the likes of Father Perozich with great joy and thanksgiving to God and His Mother for that opportunity.
Kenneth M. Fisher
This isn’t the issue, Mr. Fisher. Nobody is promoting sodomy. No sexual conduct is appropriate or permissible among youth or adults.
YFC, you are correct, Jesus asked that All the children be brought to him. I remember my father telling me a story of how in the late 1930’s he went to a big scouting event. There was a black boy there and none of the other boys wanted to bunk with him so my dad volunteered. The idea of shunning children who are considered “unclean” is something foreign to the Catholicism that I was raised in.
PA why is important to you that children declare their sexuality???? why is it so important for people like you to know who everyone else wants to bed down…and no YFC is wrong…
Canisius, I never said that it was important that children declare their sexuality. Most young people didn’t when I was young and I never did. This is a personal decision. But some kids are labeled as gay and they may or may not admit to it. I am saying that they should not be mistreated. I agree with what YFC said at 1:35 PM.
PA I don’t care about your past decisions or whatever you did or did not do in your little life in PA, it is irrelevant to me or the subject at hand. Cut and dry you want acceptance of homosexuality and driven down the throats of those who don’t.
I was sexually assaulted in the 1950’s while out on scout campouts with the cooperation, nay initiation of the scoutmaster. I wish I had revealed this at the time.
I wish you had too, Hormigito, but it is understandable that fear of retribution, perhaps even shame (which you do not deserve to feel) keeps people from reporting crimes like these. Thank you for sharing, and let’s pray together that kids will be stronger, and leaders more accountable, so that these horrific things stop happening.
You gay blades are planting evil seeds in the minds and imaginations and hearts of kids, YFC. That gets you the condemnation that Jesus already served up.
Skai you talk about gay sex much more than I do, so if anyone is planting ideas, maybe it is you?
YFC, planting ideas is the work of the Church. You have yet to show me where I’ve said something that opposes Catholicism.
The typical response of the homo-sex left if someone is repulsed by sodomy they must secretly desire it, oh how I hope to live to see Our Lord wrath visit these sodomites and watch them burn
Hormigito, I am sorry that happened to you. I hope you are OK
Hormigito expect more molestations to happen there with their now openly gay crap…now it’s no longer about the virtues but it’s about sexuality….
Hormigito, I am sorry for what happened to you. It was criminal. Try not to feel bad about not saying anything at the time because, maybe you would have been listened to but it is more likely that you may have been called a crybaby or a snitch. Back then stuff like this was more than likely to be covered up. That is why it is a good thing that so many people are speaking out now because people now understand how wrong and how criminal this was. Being brave and speaking out about it now does help protect kids today. We are all becoming more educated about this and understanding how horrible it is. May God bless you and may God bless and protect our children.
Why, Hormigito, do you wish you had said something in the 50s about being raped?
This says it all –
“Pornography, fornication, prostitution, masturbation, homosexuality and adultery have no place in religion nor in society – and certainly not in scouting.”
“I would not allow a child under my care to be near either another child or an adult who identifies with, encourages acceptance of, or practices homosexuality.”
I have read Fr. Perozich’s other writings that are online and no where else does he make this error. Perhaps he wrote hastily or maybe someone edited it without understanding the implications of it. The true teaching of the Church is CCC 2357-2359.
Anonymous you left out: CCC 2396 – which is also a true teaching of the Church.
Do you want to teach children that MORTAL SINS are acceptable?
2396 is the Church’s teaching. I believe that Father Perozich accepts this. I think he just was in a hurry or mad or something and instead of writing homosexual practices as in 2396 or homosexual acts as in 2357, he wrote homosexuality which is a trial for Christian men and women, not a sin.
Why is this a problem. Fr, Rich is correct.
Don’t just sit around go be a manly scout leader. Get off your rear end and do something about it.
Of course what Anonymous said is true – homosexuality is not a sin unless acted on and homosexual persons are not supposed to be unjustly discriminated against.
As for the quaint notion of some lost Golden Days of Scouting, it is likely the result of selective memories. Our parishes are well enough to be rid of them.
Homosexuality is the expression of homoeroticism, and is thus a sin. Whether acted out physically or in the imagination or thoughts, it is a sin. “Temptation is here taken to be an incitement to sin whether by persuasion or by the offer of some good or pleasure. It may be merely external, as was the case of Christ’s encounter in the desert after the forty days’ fast; or it may be internal as well, inasmuch as there is a real assault upon a person’s will power.” (Catholic Encyclopedia, New Advent). Some people prefer grapes, some oranges, but that is what the gay lobby says about sex. That sort of statement is nothing less than an act of tempting others; their father is the father of lies and a seducer. The problem called same sex attraction is nothing more than a problem of the will. So, when the gay apologists rant on and on about the “condition” not being a sin, what they are doing is making an act of seduction. They want people to take an external temptation (their gay apologetics) into themselves as an internal tempation, where inevitably it will fester until they begin having mental processes conducive to the gay way. That is when the gay studs such as YFC step in and go to work, while the gay cheer leaders like PA prance up and down the bleachers trying to brainwash kids.
Brian S correction having struggles with same sex attractions and seeking to live chaste, with not advocating it…is not a sin but homosexuality is a sin. We need to correct how we word these things….they can give out the wrong impression.
Same sex attraction is not homosexuality? Words are a constant battle with some…
You mean understanding is not everyone’s gifts….but I respect what you mean….God bless you. : )
I’m Gay and I was in the Boy Scouts. My troop was sponsored by St. Raphael’s Catholic Church in Potomac, Maryland. Admittedly this was back in the late 1960s to early 1970s, when the modern Gay rights movement was in its infancy, and the prospect of Gay youth “coming out” was unthinkable. But the fact remains that my sexual orientation was irrelevant to scouting activities, and I imagine the same went for the majority of boys who were Straight (i.e. heterosexual). The official Boy Scout Handbook was not heterocentric. The issue of sexual orientation, one way or another, was simply irrelevant.
Gay boys and men have always participated in the BSA and always will, regardless of the official policy. I’m just glad the when boys in the scouts start coming to grips with a different sexual orientation (usually while in their early teens), they will not be kicked out when they need that social support structure the most. And if some people are so consumed by their animosity toward Gay people that they choose to leave the BSA, they won’t be missed.
This is not to say that individual Boy Scouts, regardless of their sexual orientation, shouldn’t be held accountable for inappropriate behavior. They should be. But sexual orientation in and of itself should not be a barrier to scouting.
Chuck, you gays are being martialed into a force extremely hostile to God, and detrimental to social cohesion. Think of yourselves as sleeper cells being awakened to your calling, which is to put hurt on everyone else.
Thank you, Chuck. You provide a very thoughtful response.
That is your opinion…
If gay (or straight) children are permitted to openly announce their sexual preference at any Scouting functions,
then Scout leaders have an obligation to state that homosexual acts (and fornication) are mortal sins.
And without repentance they will be damned to Hell.
CCC: – ” 2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.”
There is zero good reason why any child should publically state a sexual preference.
This thing with the Scouts is stupid beyond belief.
All you gay guys who are quoting the CCC – you must take the entire CCC for accuracy, not only those paragraphs that support your position.
“There is zero good reason why any child should publically state a sexual preference”: Saaaay Whuuuuutt??? This idea is utterly more lying seduction garbage from the gay quarter. The more gays that open their mouths, the more they show their abyssmal stupidity.
* * * “ This catechism is conceived as an organic presentation of the Catholic faith in its entirety. It should be seen therefore as a unified whole. ” (CCC page 11) * * *
For anyone to try to use only one paragraph while leaving out others on the same topic, takes things out of context.
Saving Souls is the business of the Church.
Why don’t the Boy Scouts just go with what was the former rule of the military – “Don’t ask – don’t tell.” When you DO tell you are out! Probably this has been the case up until now…..(except for the Scoutmasters)……why not just carry this on?
If a sodomy scout master seduces a child under his care it is against the
law and is prosecuted.
If a more mature sodomy scout seduces another scout of the same age
or younger,who protects the immature scout from this seduction.
Sodomy has no place in scouting.
I agree Larry plus you know how there are many cover ups with Planned Parenthood with abortions, born alive failed abortions then they are murdered, young girls who are sexually exploited and then forced to have an abortion and Planned Parenthood covers up those facts just so they can keep advancing this culture of death…well same thing with the gay agenda, they will cover up more of their sodomy and actions on the youth just so they can keep advancing their gay agenda. Where as girls can be victims of planned parenthood, boys will be victims of the gay agenda as well, both having heavy cover ups.
My grandsons always went camping with their father and grandfather with other close relatives along. My husband and I used to take some of our nieces and nephews along with our girls when they were younger for camping. We never could see putting our money into a huge organization that probably wastes much of the money just to learn survival skills, character building and to just have fun. We trusted ourselves more than strangers. I used to give money to the Boy Scouts, though, and buy their popcorn. With all this happening, I will no longer do so. Let those who believe in it support it.
The very fact that certain bloggers like YFC and buddha is laughing are on a Catholic blog, stumping…AGGRESSIVELY for this lifestyle is beyond nutty! Do they honestly believe ANYONE will embrace or endorse the notion or belief that male-on-male sexual activity is somehow defensible?…Even responding to these 2 perverts is a waste of time and bandwidth!…These men (I use that term loosely), are beyond repugnant…yes, I said it REPUGNANT!
Rhodesian: As for my part, I haven’t been discussing sexual activity. I’ve been describing gay adolescents. Adolescents who are attracted to people of the same sex. That is not the same as sexual activity. Please read carefully!
I wonder what kind of wall posters YFC hangs in his home.
I’ll tell you: I have two signed citiscapes in the naive genre, 2 photos of celestial bodies, 2 historic photos of san francisco, a Dali of the Last supper and another of the discovery of dexoyribonucleic acid, 2 traditional chinese paintings, a landscape photo done by an artist friend, and a Chagal print of the imparting of the ten commandments. Any other questions, Skai?
Years ago, before homo agitprop, all boys were welcomed into the BSA, and no questions were asked.
One of the Comments has already acknowledged such.
The big difference today is that the politicized homosexual community is grossly intolerant of Catholic values. they spew hatred while labeling faithful Catholic like Fr. Perozich as being hateful.
Time for Fr. Perozich to become Bishop of San Diego.
JOHN: It is hatred to point out when someone violates the Catechism?
John join me in my prayers for Father to be chosen as Bishop one day!
Obviously, the God over Sodom and Gomorrha hasn’t read the CCD yet. Maybe the squadron of sodomites who are congregating on this site will finesse Him out of his position.
Any and all parents will know that the entire BSA, in “coming out” tolerant, such as did too many elements in the Catholic priesthood, will become sodomite.
Had you reported such sinful conduct about a Scout Master to a good Scout Master, he would have taken it up the Chain. You should have reported it.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
And if he had reported to a bad scout master, he would not have. And maybe the molester was the scout master. And maybe he had a lot of confusion, pain, and regret, and maybe he was a young boy confronted with a situation he did not know and should not have had to know how to deal with.
Maybe a lot of things, Kenneth…but is it so important for you to have the golden 50-s tinged view of scouting that the picture for this article suggests? Get over it.
We were systematically infiltrated as have been the political parties. Plain and simple.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Father needs a reality check. It’s OK to be homosexual, the Chruch just frowns on practiticing it. What do we tell a gay Scout and his/her parents? Or all the straight scouts and parents in that parish who now have no troop? Father’s ham handed tactics will backfire all over him. Father just have the cause of gay Scouts a huge boost of local public relations.
Nice work, Father. We should not wonder how parishes become so divided.
Surprised by Truth? Yes good cause certainly is. Good cause is another dissenter who is irritated and annoyed with the truth. good cause has finally given the truthful etiology for his posting history of bad causes.
Etiology – Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster …
cause, origin; specifically : the cause of a disease or abnormal condition. 2. : a branch of knowledge concerned with causes…..Surprised? …..Not one bit!
Pastors who uphold Church teaching do not divide. They are helping the faithful to remain united to Christ. Sin divides and sin separates us from doing God’s Will.
Homosexuality is a practice, not a condition.
Incorrect, once again, dear Skai. Homosexuality is of or relating to homosexeuals, who sometimes practice, sometimes remain celebate, and sometimes pretend to be straight and marry your daughters and then divorce them when they come out. Any questions?
Real Catholic Parishes don’t become divided!
Kenneth M. Fisher
Personally, I would allow boys who openly identify themselves as having a homosexual inclination into the Scouts. With following conditions:
1)As someone else has already stated, if these boys feel the need to openly identify themselves as having a homosexual inclination, then the Scout Master should also remind all the boys that both fornication and homosexual acts are against Church teaching.
2)The Church says there should be no unjust discrimination, but it does not say there should be no discrimination. If the boys who identify themselves as having a homosexual inclination choose to openly espouse the notion that homosexual acts (and lustful thoughts) are permitted under certain conditions, then I would remove them from the Scouts. St. Paul says a little bit of yeast can cause a lot of trouble.
3)Because these boys could be fairly young, their sexuality is developing. Providing them with a good heterosexual role model may help point them in the direction of heterosexuality. For others this may not be the case.
Your little bit of yeast undermines this courageous priest and causes trouble and confusion. Confusion is a mark of the handiwork of the devil. Get off of the comfortable perch. Defend the good faithful Catholic priest who is defending Church teaching instead of defending your own personal fears of sounding politically incorrect. No man/kaves1 can serve two masters. Your post is wishy washy mush.
Sorry Catherine, I disagree. The boys should be allowed into BSA, I think they need help at this point in their lives. But there should no sexual activity nor any discussion favoring homosexuality. If they use BSA as a tool to proselytize homosexuality, then they should be removed. If the priest already knows these boys are already proselytizing homosexuality, then I agree with him. However, if the boy merely says he has a homosexual inclination and ends it there, I have no problem.
kaves 1 writes…..” But there should no sexual activity nor any discussion favoring homosexuality. ”
kaves1. I am so disappointed to see you kave in to 1st serving the religion of homosexuality without even realizing it. Your thinking is disordered in priorities. You can’t be serious and yet you are. Individuals within the Church could not even protect children from being seduced and molested and you think that an organization that openly recognizes homosexuality as just being another normal alternative (or else the would not have caved in) is going to be on the highest alert to keep a potential predator from taking advantage of an impressionable boy. That’s quite a bit of dreaming Kaves 1 and at the terrible expense of risking children’s well being.
Yes, kaves 1. Once again I am very disappointed in you. I am sure that means absolutely nothing to you but the reason I wanted to let you know is because I thought you were so much wiser than this. It is always disappointing to witness Catholic individuals first serve the religion of homosexuality before they loyally serve Almighty God and also protect God’s children.
I do agree that there are young boys who would greatly benefit from having good masculine role models but you certainly do not cross your fingers and throw your child or anyone else’s child to a wolf with an empty promise of worldly hope that they won’t too become just one more victim of being a statistic of molestation. Fathers will have to care enough to start a new programs that helps young boys learn from good role models.
I guess it depends on whether you think boys 9-17 are sexual predators. Some could be. Heterosexual boys could be abusive or predatory, too. You are basically saying that you don’t trust anyone.
Under the conditions I expressed, I don’t think I am putting anyone in more danger than they would have been. If the homosexual boy remained silent about his inclination, would the other boys be in any less danger? No. If anything, the other boys will be more on alert. Again, if the boy intends or expounds on pro-homoseuxality themes, he should be removed. The priest needs to ask questions up front of the boy. Otherwise, the boy should not be ignored. He is a child of God.
Catherine sometimes kaves1 may just disagree out of pride….as an x-gay activist once said to me “winning and changes the minds of the people one person at a time, one organization at a time, no matter at what cost, even if it takes years etc etc”. Through out the years, they keep gaining those winnings….too bad Kaves doesn’t see that the door opened leads to more for the gay rights movement! Toe the gay rights movement is not about the innocence or care for confused children, it is not about any other reason but only to impose acceptance and adding the language that they want just to slowly desensitize those sins and to gain acceptance not to forget but to normalize it.
Kaves no offense…..but you must not have teenage kids. You don’t understand.
A few years ago one of my kids was getting ready to attend Stuevenville retreat in San Diego, its a youth conference for our youth, an over night weekend thing. It was the first time our teen went…as we dropped our teen off, they met up as a group, it was a small group from this church parish. There was an openly confused teen attending, all he did was brag about his “gayness”. Instead of keeping the focus on actually the purpose of the teen conference, he became the topic and center of attention.
His mum brought him hoping it would help him but instead it just made the other kids focus on what he was saying about his “boyfriend” and that the church was wrong about homosexuality. He preached against the church teachings, the person in church didn’t correct the error nor was paying attention. The teen who had to share bunk beds with him, felt uncomfortable not because he knew about his confusion on sexuality but because that is all the confused kept talking about.
The other teen boy tried talking to him but instead the confused teen was well immersed in the gay agenda, that he knew how to argue well. Instead of being a good teen religious experience for many that where in his group, it wasn’t. At the end of the teen conference, My teen just repeated all the gossip and I regretting sending my teen….I wish that the volunteer leaders would of been trained better on how to handle that situation to help the teens come back more in love with Christ, not more scandalized by the confusion that that teen brought to the table. If it was handled properly, they could of helped the confused teen more there but I guess there are many who are not like minded with the church and didn’t handle it faithfully or didn’t have the guts too. Who knows. So what makes you think that all troops would know how to handle out of control drama that some kids cause.
Doesn’t sound to me like this kid was confused at all! But it does sound as if he behaved inappropriately and you are right, Abeca, it sounds as though it could have been better handled by the adults in attendance.
As I said, if the boy expounds upon his gayness, he should be removed. Upfront, the priest should talk with the boy to help determine if he intends to promote a gay agenda. If he simply says he has a homosexual inclination and does not promote homosexuality, I would admit him. Otherwies, I believe it is unjust discrimination.
But Kaves1 remember it is not a perfect world and what you suggest, will not be the case…wish it did. Why do you think abortion advanced, why do you think gay agenda’s continue to come forward…
The more you allow good common decency to decrease in the majority, the more the majority becomes the minority. As is it is happening today. Moral values and good common sense are decreasing. Well enuff said….I now leave this subject, meant to leave it earlier but was lead to just reply to these last comments. God bless you, my prayers are with everyone here.
PEACE in Christ!
The religion of “If”, kaves1?
kaves in a perfect world…I considered those conditions you have made but it’s not a perfect world….haven’t you seen the pattern? They said it was only about their rights to marry…but now they force their books into our Elementary schools with two dads or mums….they want to adopt and are….so lets not think they have common decency to keep it within their choices….nope that is not the case. Why do you think they made sexuality the main issue for the Boys Scouts for a while now….when the boys scouts was meant to better our young boys but they made homo sexuality the issue instead of the real reason…it is our youth that are losing because the gay advocates DON’T REALLY CARE ABOUT THE YOUTH.
Have people forgotten how much in the past the Boy Scouts where being treated/attacked even in some public schools were boycotting them from using their school after school for a meeting place. Have people forgotten how nasty these “gay” activist have treated the boys scouts and now they cave in…..PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK! They can lie to us but we have the facts and the proof! WAKE UP!
Plus some gay activists actually bring their children to such groups to further their agenda….they may bring the rainbow flag and introduce it to the other kids…when open those doors to the Gay activist….anything goes and you can’t say you’ve haven’t been warned.
One danger of homosexual scouts is their getting beat up out of the disgust of the moral boys. A danger of homosexual scout leaders is them getting beat up out of disgust by normal boys. There are other dangers to homosexuals in scouting, one of which is long hikes where the homosexuals are mysteriously lost by misunderstanding directions on which fork to take.
Skai, if those boys are so moral they won’t be beating up other boys that are viewed as less than fully human by some. Do you honestly consider beating up boys who are gay or perceived to be gay as some kind of virtue?
How do you know, PA, what the reason for some boys beating up other boys is? You don’t, because each incident is different. The acting of beating up someone is not intrinsically evil, and is an appropriate means of redress in some situations.
When I was growing up there was only one “flakey” boy in our group, and he was not too much of a problem, especially as he moved away during his first year of teenhood. There was another boy who later became gay and who was in the neighborhood and in my high school but he was not among those I hung with and thus was not a problem. It was not until college that I first recognised that there was a concerted, albeit then small, gay movement. It was aggressive, and began to explode on the campus about 1969. They took over the theater dept, and pretty much stayed over there. When I used to commute to UCLA later on via city bus, the gays would try their touchy feely aggression, which was extremely annoying. Walking around Westwood and environs became a displeasant adventure because of the aggressive gay idiots running rampant.
Well Skai, when I was a kid in school, I was taught that fighting and beating someone up was a sin against the 5th Commandment.
Well PA you are wrong again….
Father Richard Perozich,
Thank you and may God continue to grace you with tremendous courage. You have annoyed and irritated the comfortable backseat Christians. Pope Francis recently gave a homily on annoying and irritating those who have become too comfortable. God bless you Father for being such a faithful example. Your faithful courage is appreciated by the Holy Father and your faithfulness brings encouragement to many!
Pope Francis on Apostolic Zeal: “IF WE ANNOY PEOPLE, BLESSED BE THE LORD”…”
May 16, 2013 By Deacon Greg Kandra
A report on today’s homily:
Saint Paul was the focus of Pope Francis’ homily at Mass Thursday morning, and in particular his talent at ‘being a nuisance’, at unsettling people who had grown too comfortable in their faith and imbuing within them that Apostolic zeal that is necessary for the Church to move forward.
Pope Francis said that Apostolic zeal, implies “an element of madness, but of spiritual madness, of healthy madness” and proclaiming Christ has its consequences, which can often result in persecution. Nonetheless, stated the Pope, we must not be ‘backseat Christians’ cozy in our comfort zones.
Drawing inspiration from the Acts of the Apostles, chapter 22, where Paul was brought before the Sanhedrin, Pope Francis pointed out that the life of the Apostle to the Gentiles was one of “persecution”, but that this did not discourage him. The fate of Paul, he stressed, “is a fate with many crosses, but he keeps going, he looks to the Lord and keeps going”:
“Paul is a nuisance: he is a man who, with his preaching, his work, his attitude irritates others, because testifying to Jesus Christ and the proclamation of Jesus Christ makes us uncomfortable, it threatens our comfort zones – even Christian comfort zones, right? It irritates us. The Lord always wants us to move forward, forward, forward … not to take refuge in a quiet life or in cozy structures, no?… And Paul, in preaching of the Lord, was a nuisance. But he had deep within him that most Christian of attitudes: Apostolic zeal. He had its apostolic zeal. He was not a man of compromise. No! The truth: forward! The proclamation of Jesus Christ, forward! “.
Pope Francis noted that St. Paul was a “fiery” individual, but this fire was not limited to his character. It was the fire of his zeal for the Lord, who accompanied the Saint in his ‘pitched battles’. Indeed, continued the Pope, it was the Lord who lead him “onwards,” to bear witness in Jerusalem and in Rome:
“By the way, I like the fact that the Lord has cared for this diocese, even since then … We are privileged! And Apostolic zeal is not an enthusiasm for power, for possession. It is something that comes from within, that the Lord wants from us: Christian with Apostolic Zeal. And where does this Apostolic Zeal come from? It comes from knowing Jesus Christ. Paul found Jesus Christ, he encountered Jesus Christ, but not with an intellectual, scientific knowledge – which is important, because it helps us – but with that first knowledge, that of the heart, of a personal encounter. ”
Pope Francis continued, this is what pushes Paul to keep going, “to always proclaim Jesus”. “He was always in trouble, not in trouble for troubles’ sake, but for Jesus, proclaiming Jesus “this is the consequence”. Apostolic zeal, the Pope stressed, can only be understood “in an atmosphere of love.” Apostolic zeal, implies “an element of madness, but of spiritual madness, of healthy madness”. Paul “had this healthy madness.”
The Pope invited all those present to pray to the Holy Spirit for this Apostolic zeal that is not only the preserve of missionaries. Even in the Church, he warned, there are “lukewarm Christians” who “do not feel like moving forward”:
“There are backseat Christians, right? Those who are well mannered, who do everything well, but are unable to bring people to the Church through proclamation and Apostolic zeal. Today we can ask the Holy Spirit to give us all this Apostolic fervor and to give us the grace to be annoying when thin are too quiet in the Church the grace to go out to the outskirts of life. The Church has so much need of this! Not only in distant lands, in the young churches, among people who do not know Jesus Christ, but here in the cities, in our cities, they need this proclamation of Jesus Christ. So let us ask the Holy Spirit for this grace of Apostolic zeal, let’s be Christians with apostolic zeal. And if we annoy people, blessed be the Lord. Onwards, as the Lord says to Paul, ‘take courage!’ ”
God bless you Catherine…beautiful post! I appreciate the truth…there is beauty when the truth is presented in purity as you have done here….but when the dissenters post they bring forth confusion, that is why it is important that our priest help with feeding Christs’ flock so we can be in the truth and help with dissolving confusion. Our priests are to lead us into Christ’s light…..
Fr. Richard Perzovich is a hypocrite.
He is using devotion to Catholic faith as an excuse to exercise his disgust with people who have SSA. Not only does the CCC say that the faithful should not discriminate against such individuals, Courage also says the primary cause of homosexuality is the inability of some unfortunate individuals to develop healthy same sex relationships during childhood.
Whether this theory is correct or not, it represents what the Church believes to be true about homosexuality at this time. Mr. Perozich would exclude a class of individuals WHO ARE AT MOST NEED OF HEALTHY SOCIALIZATION. The BSA, btw, expects all scout age individuals to refrain from sexual activity—so that inclusion of gay oriented scouts is NOT in conflict with the CCC or the Catholic faith.
How is this at all consistent with Christ who embraced lepers (despite the fact that leprosy is an infectious disease)?
Gluttony is also a sin. And, gluttons who continue to gorge on food are clearly unrepentant. Should we also exclude gluttonous boys from scouting? If “good catholics” are to exclude unrepentant sinners from social interaction, should we not tell all fat people they should not post on CCD? Should we not also refuse to give communion to everyone with a BMI over 30 since they are an unrepentant sinner?
These are the kind of action that turns the CCC’s insistence that people with SSA be treated with dignity and respect into nothing more than a pretty lie.
Well folks now you have it here….the spiritual battle is far great and this man just chose ….he stained a good holy priest. Jon J I will be praying for your soul!
Abeca, I did what a catholic is supposed to do with a sinner: advise him of his error.
Laity has the duty to correct clergy when, for example, the Pope misapplies doctrine and puts Galileo under house arrest, when clerical authority decides to torture a suspected heretic in order to gain a confession, or when priests and bishops participate in an inherently unfair legal process that allows the government and church authorities to seize the worldly possessions of accused wrongdoers before they are convicted of anything.
All of these have been actions supported by Church authority over hundreds of years. A moral individual had the duty during those times to reject such misapplications of doctrine—as I do with respect to Fr. Richard Perzovich. To you, Abeca, I say that you are allowing this Priest who agrees with your disgust for people with SSA into the sin of rejecting the sinner.
This is not, nor will ever be, a perfect world. The sin that you and Fr. Perzovich have fallen into is the idea that the Church should use social and political force to compel obedience to God. The job of the Church is to tell man the Truth about God. Then it must, as far as it is able within the limits of maintaining an ordered society, respect the individual’s free will.
Why is this so important? Because when you utilize compulsion to win obedience toward your view of God’s will you limit the ability of people to freely choose God. Conformity that comes from outside compulsion and not free will is no better than the individual who chooses sin. If that individual would have sinned had another not stopped their sin is in the same spiritual place as if he had chosen that act.
Consequently, conformity to God’s will imposed by force DOES NOT HELP THE SINNER. Often, compelling others to obey what you believe to be God’s will is nothing more than self-aggrandizement for the individual giving the orders.
You too JonJ are using mispelling to slur the good name of Fr. Perozich.
” I did what a catholic is supposed to do with a sinner: advise him of his error”: Yeah, JonJ, but you got the name wrong … you meant “JonJ” instead.
JonJ, do you agree with Church teaching in regards to homosexuality as stated in the CCC?
Thank you Abeca!
Father Perovich changed and deleted things from Vatican documents and the Catechism of the Catholic Church to alter the Church’s teaching. Why?
Anonymous, why is put to you over and over and over again … you never respond. You are incapable of responding. You have also demonstrated that you are incapable of understanding what the Church teaches, as you’ve been frequently challenged to explain your claims and you always refuse to do so. Now, you are accusing a priest of falsifying Church doctrine … tell us that you actually are able to look yourself in the mirror each morning, what with your extreme duplicity.
I agree with Anonymous that the Father has deleted selected elements of the Catechism to try to make it says what he wants it to say. As such, he is guilty of heresy, and insofar as his official pastoral actions will cause parents and kids to fall away from the Faith, he is guilty of Scandal as well.
Skai, the CCC is online and so are the Vatican documents Persona Humana and the letter to Bishops on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons. Read them and then read Father’s statement and you will see what I am talking about. I don’t know what you mean that I don’t respond to things put to me over and over. I am saying the Priest made an error. I really expected him to realize it and correct it quickly. This priest works with the Courage organization in San Diego. It is important that he teaches 100% in conformity with the Church. I am not accusing him of heresy or falsifying Church doctrine. I assume it was an honest mistake. I have not done anything wrong. You are starting to sound like abeca and Catherine.
Anonymous, like I’ve pointed out, and have become weary of it by now after having pointed it out countless times, you fail to interpret Church documents, and you fail even in interpreting the posts on this blog. This is the first time you’ve asked about this. I know what the popes say. I know what they don’t say. I have countless times destroyed your sound bites (would be arguments but for lack of supporting statements) at every point, and you have never rebutted any of it. Your post here demonstrates that you have no clue what formal argumentation is. You and your fellow gays can only post these little zingers and you can never support them with any factual material. Seldom do you even try.
Skai, I’m not supposed to interpret them-that is how we get error. We are left to interpret some things. Like what is just and unjust discrimination. That is what is being debated by you and some other posters here. They are not sound bites. Using your own reason instead of the Church’s teaching is a temptation that is caused by pride. Many heresies and errors and schisms were cause by this. I don’t know what you mean when you say that you have destroyed my posts. You claim to know all the Church’s teaching and what the pope’s say. Then you should be faithful to it. I do not want to participate in formal or informal argumentation with you. You are taking things I post as “zingers”? then you have misinterpreted my posts. Skai, you posts things that no Catholic would post and it’s because you want to have a debate? I don’t know what you mean by support with factual material. I don’t want to hurt your feelings, I understand that you are older and either are not Catholic or a recent convert but a lot of your posts are just nonsense. I assumed you just posted for your own amusement.
That is why he (and 2 others) is here……………to post confusion and deception. Do not for a minute doubt yourself or your Faith in these matters.
Take it from one who has dealt with not only the Devil himself but some of his termites within the church. I tried warning fellow Catholics about Phony Mahony when he was still a Monsignor and he carried through his agenda to perfection since that time.
A rosary a day to our Lady of La Salette will empower you immensely while defending the Faith.
Also, Anonymous, thankyou for reckoning me in the blogging company of Abeca and Catherine, a community of faithful Catholic women. I spend most of my daily grind in the company of people who are anything but faithful Catholics … and so it is a relief to be able or join in the bloggosphere of faithful souls and faithful voices.
Oh, your welcome.
JonJ, I think it needs to be pointed out again, as you mentioned, that the Boy Scouts expect all scouts to refrain from sexual activity. So sexual activity doesn’t have a place in the Boy Scouts. None of us who are saying that gay boys should be allowed in the Scouts is disagreeing with this point. The Boy Scouts have a right to expect the scouts to live up to these standards.
PA, restrictions should not be limited to sexual activity; there should be no pro-homosexual proselytizing either. Even if the boy were to engage in pro-homosexual proselytizing outside the BSA, they should be excluded.
What, exactly, is pro-homosexual proselytizing? It’s not a religion, ya know?
Wrong,YFC. Today’s gay movement is a religious spiritual movement. For example, the gay religion just this past week converted almost the entire Boy Scout organization to the gay religion.
YFC, that which undermines Church teaching on homosexuality. There are those in the Church that disagree with Church teaching on homosexuality and are attempting to change Church teaching.
YFC, Typical examples would be that God made homosexuality in Man, or that bible verses cited in Church documents concerning homosexuality do not condemn all homosexual acts.
Yep, PA, all you have to do is wave a magic wand and human nature is suspended.
Disgust at homosexuality is natural, and so is disgust at seeing roadkill. It’s pretty much the same thing, really ugly.
Hatred is disgusting and ugly, Skai.
Gay men are men of hate, YFC.
Your disgust for Fr. Richard Perozich, a good and faithful priest is REVOLTING!
Fr. Perozich has done more to help persons with SSA save their souls than you would even imagine, but because you don’t want to know the truth, Culpable Ignorance, you will pay the horrible price!
May God have mercy on your soul,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Mr Fisher I agree, truly revolting and I can discern that he will have to answer to God. Maybe someday he will have a heart of conversion but by then…his error may be harder to correct. If this causes more fallen souls then I don’t see how he will be able to correct it but only through more sufferings….we all pay.
JonJ, gluttons and other sinners, of which we all are part, by the way, have the distinction of not taking schools and social organizations to court to make everyone accept their obesity…and not only accept it, but to congratulate them on being fat, or drunk or slothful. Surely you can see the difference here. The Bible is either true or it is not, it isn’t open to debate. If you cannot accept the beliefs and practices laid out very clearly in the CCC, the Bible and the very words of Jesus (and natural law and common sense) then you simply find a church or social organizaiton that meets your needs, Jon. You don’t try to force your views on them or take them to court because they don’t agreee with you. That is not only incredibly arrogant and anti-social, it goes against the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. Odd how mankind has found homosexuality deviant for thousands of years and now, suddenly it no longer is to an unfortunate and misguided minority. If you don’t believe Catholic teaching and are not willing to confess your error and repent, then it’s far better for you to become a lutheran, Jon, that completely concurs with what you espouse here. Why are you beating a dead horse here day after day? Do you think if you say it enough we’ll all say…’oh, Jon, we were so wrong. The Bible must be wrong. Gee Whiz! ‘ And now, to stoop so low to condemn a Catholic priest for being obedient to Catholic teaching is just completely over the top. JonJ, you hate the Church, but you won’t admit it. You sound so unloving and angry! I, for one, don’t think you care one tiny little mite what I feel or think or what happens to me. Where is your love for us, your brothers and sisters? It’s time for you to do some serious reflection and to talk to a good priest about what many of us see here as outright heresy. I’m in no way condemning you, but I think you’re not being at all objective. At least be open enough to pray about it and stop assuming you’re right. Just tell our Blessed Mother that you’re always being disagreed with and picked on and ask her to show you…’could it be me?’ May the love of God surround and infill you, JonJ, and bring you peace!
First of all, Dana, I do not at all think the Mr. Richard Perozich is following Church doctrine. The CCC states that people with homosexual attractions are to be treated with dignity and respect. They are not to be subject to unjust discrimination. The Church, however, cannot approve homosexual acts because they are inherently disordered.
Mr. Perozich has twisted this set of principles to excuse rejecting children who experience SSA from an organization where they are also expected to refrain from any sexual activity. Note that both the CCC and the most definitive teaching on homosexuality (there’s a published paper that someone mentioned above) state that simply experiencing SSA is not, in itself, a sin. Courage also believes that socialization problems in childhood is the primary cause of adult homosexual behavior.
Mr. Perozich is telling children that they should reject their peers that might be struggling with SSA. If, presumably, its OK to reject them from Scouts, then I suppose it is also proper to fail to invite them to birthday parties, play with them during recess, and exclude them from sports teams. The Church also has taken the position that people who have expressed SSA should be kicked out of catholic schools.
Taken in totality, HOW ARE THESE CHILDREN SUPPOSED TO DEVELOP HEALTHY SAME SEX SOCIALIZATION IF GOOD CATHOLICS ARE SUPPOSED TO REJECT THEM? Basically, you’re taking children with a problem and then saying, “Gosh, you lost the social game of musical chairs—let’s make sure you stay the same way when you’re an adult.”
I cannot see how this in any way resembles the Christ who embraced the most despised people of his time (lepers)—who, btw, were infectious. Omniscient Christ must have known leprosy was a contagious disease. Implicit in this act, Christ is also telling us it is better to risk affliction ourselves than to treat such individuals with cruelty.
The proper moral position is that gays should not be socially excluded—but organizations should not prevent people of faith from expressing God’s Truth as they see it. The only real problem with BSA’s new policy is if scoutmasters and scout leaders cannot teach their troops their religious beliefs.
But, this hasn’t been the action of Church leaders. In fact, Church leaders have supported 1) laws that allow employers to write “you’re a perverted homo” on employee termination papers 2) allowing the military to reject gay soldiers, 3) supported the BSA legal position that gays should be rejected for their orientation irrespective of actually engaging in homosexual behavior 4) supported the right to kick out students with SSA from Catholic schools irrespective of behavior.
Of course, much of what drives these positions is that SSA is easier to prove than engaging in homosexual acts. The authorities in question want to ability to get rid of problems. However, these legal positions become abusive if administrators despise homosexuals. The bottom line is that the Church supports a legal regime that enables bigots.
At the street level, gays have historically been subject to all kinds of casual verbal abuse—much like racist jokes used to be socially common. If the Church were following its own doctrine, this behavior should be proscribed. However, the only social impact on this behavior has come through the gay rights movement, where now you occasionally hear people correcting others for gay bashing. Notice how in the 1700 years of Church-dominated cultural mores, this hasn’t happened before. In fact, right here on California Catholic, people have compared homosexuals to cannibals and expressed all kinds of other extreme hatred. People here claim to be devout, yet humiliation directed toward people who have succumbed to the sin of SSA is regularly ignored.
I suspect, however, the devout people here have picked up this behavior from Church leadership. Most clergy clearly express disgust at homosexuality and all aspects of the gay rights movement when asked about the subject—and any remonstrations that gays should be treated with dignity are typically uttered without any true feeling. If the Church were following its own theology, it would CONGRATULATE the gay rights movement and PC professors for curtailing gay bashing, while rejecting the movement’s approval for homosexual acts.
However, I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE SO-CALLED DEVOUT CATHOLIC ON HERE glad that gay bashing is now frowned upon by society. Gay bashing is rooted in the same kind of objectified sexuality that promotes womanizing and fornication. If men are congratulated for “scoring” with women and given status points for having sex with highly appealing females, then homosexuals are derided for the most extreme failure to “achieve” by this measuring stick. The proper catholic position here is that you’re glad gay bashing is on the wane, but that you fear society is doing so for an entirely wrong reason: increased acceptance of a gluttonous sexuality that celebrates sensual pleasure without regard for social, physical and emotional consequences.
Yet, what I see here is a contest that’s more about social validation than anything else. People here cheer for anything that supports the Church’s social influence and is against anything promoted by the gay rights movement. Right and wrong seem less important than their “side” winning. I do not expect the Church to validate homosexual relationships. I do expect the Church to follow its own theology and to be disgusted by cruel treatment of others—even if they habitually engage in serious sin.
This is following the example of Christ.
However, this isn’t what Mr. Perovich is saying. Instead, he is telling boys that rejecting their peers with SSA (regardless of their behavior) is the way of Christ. Slam the door in their face. It’s natural to be disgusted. Those who fail to do so are moral cowards. This is what you call a “Godly” man.
Outstanding post JonJ, I hope all will read and reflect on it.
Good Catholics don’t reject them you simpleton!…They reject the putrescent homosexual ideation that they present!…Think Mcfly…aka Jon J
The examples the Church gives for just discrimination against homosexual persons are “in the placement of children for adoption or foster care; in the employment of teachers and athletic coaches; and in military recruitment.”
I’ve wondered about that socialization thing, too, because we are talking about an age where kids could be really confused. They could think they were gay because maybe they haven’t found a girl they like yet or something they read on the internet has been misinterpreted like, “gays get bullied, I get bullied therefore I must be gay.” It would seem like having them in Scouts would be preferable to having them start to hang around with other kids who identify as gay and really get messed up.
Anonymous, the boys you describe should prove they are not gay before allowed into the Scouts.
How do you prove you are not gay? They are not supposed to do anything that would prove they were not gay.
Dear Skai – Please tell me how one “proves” he or she is not gay. Is their a litmus paper test for that one?
Skai, would these boys have to have a medical exam to prove that they were not gay? Perhaps they would have to have their thalmus gland analyzed as gay males have smaller thalmus glands than straight males. Maybe they should have genetic analysis too. Maybe they should throw out boys that don’t have good eye-hand coordination and don’t like sports, just to be safe. Sometimes, I just have to shake my head.
Uh, yeah, there is YFC…I discovered it last night when they showed a picture of two lesbians from that porno flick that the Cannes film festival has given the ‘noble’ (as opposed to nobel) prize of filmdom on a news site and it made me cringe and want to throw up (preferrably all over the film). Proof positive that I don’t find lesbianism the least desirable, but something to avoid, like when accidentally seeing explicit violence, which I also cringe at and want to throw up. If what you’re seeing is repulsive and really creepy to you, chances are good you’re not a real fan! I’m sure the Marquis de Sade would not believe people are not all secretly enamored of sick and depraved sadism, just as sex addicts can’t believe porn is a real turn on, but there you go. Do you ever ask yourself what Mary, our Blessed Mother thinks of homosexual sex? Do you seriously believe it’s okay with our creator when Jesus said ‘man and woman he created them” and not men and men and women and women ? I admire your tenacity here, I must say…I always respect people who are faithful to their beliefs and don’t resort to name calling and anger…you deserve some serious responses…and truth, of which I in no way claim to have personal authority to, but merely access to through scripture and the CCC is what I offer here.
Pretty lesbians can be intrguing, but at close range they are considerably strange, unlike normal women. It is the perverse experience and minds overgrown with weeds that distorts their natural allures.
Dear Dana – People who are generally OK with PDAs between straight people and who are not homophobic do not react with revulsion to gay people showing PDAs. So sorry, just because you’ve found a test that you think works for you, doesn’t work for many many other people. Normal people who witness genuine affection are moved by the display, not revolted by it.
Gluttons aren’t committing a sin that “cry’s to Heaven for vengeance” Jon J. ! Gluttony is one of the seven deadlies, but it doesn’t spread a dread std into the community that is INCURABLE!…Think McFly!
Actually gluttons may be committing a sin that cries out to Heaven to take them sooner. Just sayin.
Well, I’ve been known to eat everything in sight, all my life, but I burn up the calories … guess in terms of eating, I’m glutton proof. Is there a principle here that would also apply to sin in general and also to gayness? Let’s hear it from gay grande central.
The Truth Hurts, Annoys and Irritates those who are still misguided and serving the wrong master.
The Boy Scouts of America has now embraced societies full on acceptance of homosexuality as simply being another alternative lifestyle to be accepted. That is the pretty lie that the father of lies has woven into the fabric of society’s consciences, including the BSA.
Your knee jerk and disrespectful reaction shows that you do not understand the Catholic faith at all. If you did, you would be praising Father Perozich’s courage.
Are you just another statistic perishing for lack of knowledge? You sound like it. Even Our Lord said, My people perish (or call good priests hypocrites) for lack of knowledge.) Shame on you Jon J. You are the one who has has absolutely no idea of how kind and helpful that Father Perozich has been to the many homosexuals who call on him to seek the truth. They love him! Father Perozich is not condemning homosexuals. He is rejecting a society that has fallen into the acceptance of certain sins.
Father Perozich is certainly not a hypocrite. He practices what he preaches. Why are you not practicing what you have preached. I believe that you need to reconsider your many numerous posts that were preaching on the issue of stopping the death penalty or you will now sound like the hypocrite.
Father Perozich truly cares about souls. His actions show us that he does not want the sheep in his care to be lulled into society’s acceptance of sinfulness and then have his sheep receive the ultimate death penalty of being sent to hell. You need to pull the worldly veil away from your eyes and defend Father’s courage for standing up for Eternal Life!
Catherine, I have not accused Father of being a hypocrite. I do believe as you do that he honestly cares for souls. But I believe he has crafted doctrine out of thin air, rather than what has been handed on to him by the magisterium.
Yes, Father Perozich truly cares for souls. You should make an appointment with him and bring your friend. Tell him that the two of you are both interested in going to heaven. The reason I am suggesting that is YFC, you are the one who has crafted some heavy duty rationalization/denial skills when it comes to following what has been handed down by the magisterium. Why did you find it necessary to tell everyone about your living arrangements? There was no need for you to introduce yourself as a homosexual who has been living with his homosexual partner for 22 years.
Absolutely no time to waste YFC. We know not the hour. You will either drag your friend to heaven or you will drag your friend to hell or vice versa.
Catherine – you suggest that I ought to enjoy less right to free speech than you enjoy. Sorry but I don’t buy that.
And as to the good Father, I assume his intentions are good, but I think the results prove he does not act in the best interest of the kids in his own parish, or in accordance with the teachings of the Church. If my opinion changes, I may indeed look him up.
I thought his partner was Catholic and it’s a chaste relationship where they follow Church teaching.
Anonymous writes, “*I THOUGHT* his partner was Catholic and it’s a chaste relationship where they follow Church teaching.”
You are very wrong in your assumptions and you know it…that is unless you personally received a private email from YFC stating that he joyfully upholds the Church’s teaching and meaning of the word chastity. Please answer…Did you receive a private personal email from YFC?
Also this is the internet, for all we know, you could be several posters. This is why the uniting bond is always recognized by clarifying support of *all* Church teaching. Many irritated and annoyed posters came out of the silent woodwork to use their names to undermine this good priest. You are undermining this priest anonymously. You do not display the consistent uniting bond in your many duplicitous posts.
Jesus said, “I am the Good Shepherd, I know my sheep and mine know me.”
I am also sorry to have recently learned that you once fell down and seriously hit your head but I would also like to remind you that most mothers have taught their children the response, “YOU KNOW WHAT THOUGHT DID” Perhaps your own mother taught you that and you have forgotten or you have such unpleasant memories that you are still unable to truly recognize the real value of a faithful priest.
Pope Francis said that a mother is one of the most important influences on her son’s vocation to the priesthood. Three cheers for Father Richard Perozich’s faithful mother or grandmother or godly woman who instilled the virtue of authentic charity for all souls.
YFC, Has been asked by numerous posters including Mark F to clarify his support for Church teaching. YFC has never once clarified, defended or upheld the Catholic Church’s sound teaching on chastity so you’re (well planted distractions) “thoughts” are purely imaginary and they are just one more example of your numerous attempts to distract others away from supporting heroic priests who walk the walk.
John Chapter 10 – THE GOOD SHEPHERD
9 I am the gate. Whoever enters through me will be saved, and will come in and go out and find pasture.
10 A thief comes only to steal and slaughter and destroy; I came so that they might have life and have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd. A good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.c
12 A hired man, who is not a shepherd and whose sheep are not his own, sees a wolf coming and leaves the sheep and runs away, and the wolf catches and scatters them.
13 This is because he works for pay and has no concern for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and I know mine and mine know me,
15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I will lay down my life for the sheep.e
16 I have other sheep* that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.
Your post makes no sense at all. but I love the Scripture.
Catherine, you state that homosexuals “love” Father Perozich and that he is not condemning them. I quote from the story above. He prays that “the adults retreat from their cowardice before the evil of homosexuality and its perpetrators.” That certainly is a condemnation. He is saying that homosexual persons are perpetrators of evil. Those certainly aren’t loving words. Father Perozich just doesn’t want gay kids in the Boy Scouts. He feels that they should be shunned and ostracized. Telling innocent kids that they are evil and deserve to be discriminated against really doesn’t fit in with the Catechism which states that gay people shouldn’t be discriminated against and should be treated with respect. But you are correct that Father Perozich is not a hypocrite. He practices what he preaches and throwing kids that are gay or perceived to be gay out of the Boy Scouts is something that he truly believes is right. He believes that homosexuality is evil, that gay people are evil, so he feels his attacks on gay people are attacks on evil. I think he cares for heterosexual people and feels that they should stay away from gay people and keeping gay kids out of the Boy Scouts is part of helping to keep others away from the gays.
Yes Mark, adults DO need to retreat from their cowardice and do the right thing for their children’s souls and this goes for many other issues besides promoting homosexuality as being simply an alternative lifestyle.
Many parents have forgotten what their primary duty is as a parent because they have forgotten the baptismal promises that they made when their children were infants.
Mark you always talk a about the idyllic home that you were brought up in yet in all of your blessed surroundings you too seem to have forgotten that your own baptismal promise meant that you would reject Satan and all of his empty promises. Father Perozich and other courageous priests are the first to show individuals kindness and charity and truth around the clock.
Father Perozich and many like him are simply distinguishing between the individual vs the ever pervasive lies and the ever pervasive attempts of the father of lies to distort God’s truth to the detriment of society. The BSA caved in to societies demands because society has caved into the schemes of the devil. This is why you are annoyed Mark. You love the world more than you value Christ for hanging on a cross for three hours to redeem all sinners. Plain and simple. Mark you will not succeed in your attempt to undermine the purity of intentions of good priests. God is NOT on your side in this case.
I do believe that for all of your activism Mark, your undermining of a faithful alter Christus is by far your greatest example of self condemnation because in essence you are condemning Christ’s promise of salvific grace to all sinners and this extremely courageous priest is showing us that he does not hate anyone, he hates sin and he is asking parents to wake up and remember why they were placed on this earth to begin with. We are living in a culture that has bowed down to sin through it’s acceptance of artificial contraception, abortion, adultery, homosexual acts, pornography, couples living together in sin and so on. We are witnessing the ever increasing tide of rejection for God’s natural laws and this priest is wisely warning his flock to choose obedience to God before choosing obedience to a society that condones many sins through their cold indifference to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.
Mark from PA you are attacking a priest who has counseled and helped so many homosexual individuals who are hurting because they truly WANT to stop sinning. They know deep in their hearts that homosexual acts go against nature and God, but in all honesty Mark, Satan often uses the weakness in all of us to further exploit souls until that day comes where he can finally claim them for his own in eternal damnation. Don’t allow Satan to use that particular weakness in you Mark because it will not serve you well. This priest who you are viciously attacking sits at the dying bedside of many homosexuals who have told God that they are sorry for the sins that they have committed in this life. Don’t undermine this good priest Mark because you don’t want the day to come where priests do not take mortally committed sins for the serious matter that they are. No different than a physician who properly diagnoses an illness and then prescribes the healing remedy. You are misguided Mark because you want that doctor to embrace the festering wound as if it were not there. Mark before you face God please tell him that you are sorry for misrepresenting one of his faithful priests.
Catherine, rejecting satan is one thing. Rejecting innocent children because one thinks that they are from satan is something else. The Church does not teach that these young people who are gay, are that way through any fault of their own. I think that Christ accepts these boys who are gay and loves them as His own, just as he does other children. Father Perozich does not want gay boys to be in the Boy Scouts. He doesn’t think they belong there. This is his opinion, which he has a right to. But I don’t see encouraging rejection of these kids as showing any kind of courage. Christ said, whatsoever you do to the least of these, that you do unto me. I am sorry that you feel my criticism of priests shows a weakness of faith. When I grew up I had great respect for priests, I thought that they were holy and better than other men. I even had respect for the priest that taught me in high school even though he did not treat me with respect and put me down. I respected him because he was a man of God and he was living a life of chaste purity. Well, the man was far from living a life of chaste purity and when I found that out, whatever respect I had for him disappeared.
Catherine, I still go to Mass a couple of times a week. I wonder how many of my classmates still attend Mass every week. I tend to idealize to an extent my high school years but now realize that it wasn’t so wonderful for all my classmates. I was stunned to read something written by a boy I knew that was a few years younger than me. He was one of the cool kids and a favorite, or so it seemed, of the priest that disliked me. This man wrote, “I found my preheated place in hell in high school as a young boy. I have spent the last 40+ years trying to regain my soul and make sense of what happened to me at the hands of a Catholic priest.” So things are not always as they seem. I wonder if this man goes to church anymore.
I cannot chastise you with an anger or a hatred because you truly DO suffer from the intrinsically disordered thinking that is often attached to (not all) but many homosexuals. I can and do hate the methods and the vehicles of immorality that the father of lies is using to fool people such as yourself. I can in love always redirect you back to the clear teachings of the Catholic Church in their “entirety” which are contained in the CCC Second Edition. This is what Father Perozich is doing. Mark, Your thinking is so skewed that you even used the beautiful passage, “Whatsover you do to the least of these that you do unto me’.” Yes Mark that is a beautiful and true passage. Why did you selectively forget that passage in a very crucial decision? You selectively rejected that very same passage when you publicly informed the entire world that you voted for Barack Obama for President of the United States. You gave your thumbs up vote and volunteered your wholehearted support for the greatest pro abortion President that we have ever known. Lucifer is proud of Barack Obama and you voted for Obama too. Barack Obama had already informed the world that he did not mind slaughtering and murdering the least and the most vulnerable and the least of God’s little ones, yet that did not seem to bother you one bit. I even read on the other blog where you post that you knew many clergy within the Church were secretly celebrating with Barack’s victory. Yes, Mark, you did write that. Pro-life Catholics may not vote for murderous candidates yet you also selectively claim to be pro-life too. So Mark, once again you are using your selective memory when you try to use use Sacred Scripture to enable the homosexual agenda. You are showing us that this passage is as fleeting to you as your seasonal display of disloyalty within the private confines of a voting booth. God saw that vote for death Mark and God sees Father Perozich voting for Eternal life for our youth. Many homosexuals do not agree with your activism only seeks to undermine the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Please do not use your usual untrue response which accuses people of hating Barack Obama because he is black. That is a smokescreen excuse. I remember clearly to this very day when a group of young friends and I took a shortcut through a canyon to go to the local swimming pool. We were shortly surrounded by a larger group of young teenage black boys who started to throw rocks, call names and they said they were going to “get us”. All of the sudden this young black teenager, a true leader came out of nowhere and stood in front of the crowd who was about to hurt us and he courageously stood up to his own friends and he yelled out to them, “HEY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING, THESE CHILDREN DESERVE TO BE PROTECTED. THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING TO HARM YOU! Well Mark, they all backed off and to this very day I am grateful for the courageous young black boy who went against the bad choices of his own friends to defend the truth. So your usual comeback of racial hatred is false and it will be viewed as just one more tactic or smokescreen being used to further an agenda that seeks the ruin of souls.
This is exactly what Father Richard Perozich is doing but he is doing it on a spiritual level but your intrinsically disordered thinking will not allow you to see this truth. Father Perozich is the courageous leader who is telling his own flock to protect their children from the encroaching and bullying threats of the homosexual agenda. It is a lie for you to portray this priest as uncaring for all souls, even the souls of homosexuals. The BSA has openly announced that they are providing a new haven for the near occasion of sin and this fine priest is being no different than the courageous black boy who I think saved our physical lives only Father Perozich is protecting the spiritual lives which will effect the Eternal lives of those boys who will be placed in an atmosphere that has now embraced unnatural laws as being no different than God’s Natural Law.
Mark, please recognize your pattern of selectively using Sacred Scripture passages which you do not uphold those passages yourself when protecting the life of a living human being growing within his or her mother’s womb. That is living a double life and that is duplicity.
THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SECOND EDITION
338 The chaste person maintains the integrity of the powers of life and love placed in him. This integrity ensures the unity of the person; it is opposed to any behavior that would impair it. It tolerates neither a double life nor duplicity in speech.
Thank you Father Richard Perozich for protecting all children from the near occasion of sin.
What Is an Occasion of Sin?
By Scott P. Richert, About.com Guide
Question: What Is an Occasion of Sin?
In the form of the Act of Contrition that many of us learned as children, the final line reads, “I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to sin no more, and to avoid the near occasion of sin.” It’s easy to understand why we should “sin no more,” but what is a “occasion of sin,” what makes it “near,” and why should we avoid it?
Answer: An occasion of sin, Fr. John A. Hardon writes in his indispensable Modern Catholic Dictionary (compare prices), is “Any person, place, or thing that of its nature or because of human frailty can lead one to do wrong, thereby committing sin.” Certain things, such as pornographic images, are always, by their nature, occasions of sin. Others, such as alcoholic beverages, may not be an occasion of sin for one person but may be for another, because of his particular weakness.
There are two types of occasions of sin: remote and near (or “proximate”). An occasion of sin is remote if the danger it poses is very slight. For instance, if someone knows that he tends, once he starts drinking, to drink to the point of drunkenness, but he has no problem refraining from ordering the first drink, having dinner in a restaurant where alcohol is served might be a remote occasion of sin. We don’t have to avoid remote occasions of sin unless we think that may become something more.
An occasion of sin is near if the danger is “certain and probable.” To use the same example, if the person who has trouble controlling his drinking is going to dinner with someone who always buys him a drink and bullies him into drinking more, then the very same restaurant that serves alcohol might become a near occasion of sin. (Indeed, the bullying person can be a near occasion of sin as well.)
Perhaps the best way to think of near occasions of sin is to treat them as the moral equivalent of physical dangers. Just as we know we should stay alert when we’re walking through a bad part of town at night, we need to be aware of the moral threats around us. We need to be honest about our own weaknesses and actively avoid situations in which we’re likely to give in to them.
In fact, repeatedly refusing to avoid the near occasion of sin can be a sin itself. We aren’t allowed deliberately to put our soul in peril. If a parent forbids a child from walking on top of a high stone wall, for fear that he might hurt himself, yet the child does so anyway, the child has sinned, even if he doesn’t hurt himself. We should treat near occasions of sin in the same way.
Just as the person on a diet is likely to avoid the all-you-can-eat buffet, the Christian needs to avoid circumstances in which he knows he is likely to sin.
Mark from PA is a man who married a woman and has an adopted son. He is not openly gay. Mark from PA also voted for George Bush. Mark from PA is unconditionally pro-life.
We have already established that there is no sexual conduct or speech allowed in the boy scouts. So-what is the sin that it is an occasion of?
Dear Catherine: You know, we probably all have a certain image of others who post on websites like CCD. I imagine you to be one of the sweetest people in the parish. Always appropriate. Never creating waves. Never saying anything that would cause offense.
Am I wrong? I might be, because I often see you posting what amounts to hit pieces against particular individuals. So filled with inner vile. So contemptuous of others that it makes ones face turn red.
SO I just have to wonder, if by day you are a totally compassionate sweetheart, smiling by day, but by night your inner anger comes out in the form of contempt for those around you as you express here on CCD.
Catherine thank you for reminding us of catechism 338! Which implores us to not lead double lives nor be duplicitous in speech. There are many MANY on CCD who believe gay Boy Scouts should violate 338. They implore gay scouts to pretend to be straight, and to be duplicitous in their speech about being gay. Thank you for bringing 338 to our attention.
Thank you for the very thoughtful words. Yes YFC, I have high hopes for you. Your latest post reminds me of the old song, ‘Why do you build me up buttercup just to let me down.’
YFC, Sadly, your post is STILL objectively disordered. You were created to serve God, instead of serving the homosexual agenda that undermines the teachings of the Catholic Church. YFC, Has 22 years of habitual sin blinded you to the point where you cannot see the ultimate vile being spewed against God and the inner anger that your own actions are showing to God? I truly believe that at this time you cannot see this. Keep remembering YFC, no one dragged you to visit this website. You chose to come here. The purpose of CCD was to lead others to Christ. You may not care for the topics chosen or the words expressed by me or by other posters because YOU ARE at this time, first, a more faithful servant of your religion of homosexuality before you are a servant of God.
Another poster stated it a different way. He called it sheer nuttiness, showing up here on a faithful Catholic website stumping for an agenda that hates God. YFC, How vile is you’re inner anger that you do not serve Christ first? How vile is your inner anger that you serve MarkfromPA’s vile hit piece on a faithful Catholic priest before you serve God? I think you are very troubled because you are reading that I do not hate Mark or you or any individual who suffers from their personal cross or trial on this earth. We all have crosses and trials on this earth. No servant is greater than the Master. The cross of homosexuality does not constitute the allowing of a unique permission slip to ignore Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church and while we are discussing inner anger, yes I do draw a line in the sand of showing love for the devil like you are doing. I am informing you and MarkfromPA , at this time, that you are acting as agents of the homosexual agenda. You refer to yourselves as Catholics but in reality you do NOT understand, accept. support or uphold the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. You are objectively seeking to defend unnatural laws which draw other away from Christ. You completely disregard that MarkfromPA and aliases are pulling out every tactic possible in order to place a vile hit on a Catholic priest who is simply doing his job as a faithful Catholic priest.
YFC, Let’s place the correct focus on the author of that vile inner anger that you attribute to me when in truth it is you who chooses to still be enslaved in serving that vile author first and foremost without really realizing it.
YFC, Please stop giving the devil back rubs and foot massages for his handiwork in getting you to serve him first. Now that IS vile.
YFC, I found this on Catholic Answers and copied it for you.
Catholic Answers: Should we love the devil?
First, let’s understand what love is. It is an action of the will that desires for the other person objective ultimate happiness. Objective ultimate happiness is, simply, God. We are commanded to love our enemies because we are commanded to desire even for our enemies that they come to salvation and go to heaven where they will be forever in God’s presence.
Because of their purely spiritual nature and their superior intelligence, the angels made a definitive choice either for God or against him. Those who chose for God are in heaven with him; those who chose against God cast themselves into hell. The fallen angels cannot repent (just as the angels in heaven cannot now fall). This means that the fallen angels, including Satan, cannot be saved or go to heaven.
If a created being, because of his own deliberate choice, cannot choose God, we do not have to hope for his ultimate salvation. He has already determined to be eternally separated from God. The fallen angels did this. (Humans make their final irrevocable choice at death; that choice may not be apparent to us in this life, so we pray for the repose of the souls even of our enemies.) In short, this means that there is no need to love the devil.
“If anyone comes to me, I want to lead them to Him.” –St. Edith Stein
Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.”142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
Catherine, do you think he comes here because CCD runs so many articles about homosexuality? He probably would not be here if all we talked about was faithful Catholic subjects. He is not the only one, it seems. Notice how many more comments there are on the homosexuality articles than on the others.
Catherine, from your quote of the CCC, “They must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.” You speak of my vile hit piece on a faithful Catholic priests. What I criticize is that Father Perozich does not follow what I just quoted when it comes to gay boys who want to be in the Boy Scouts. The CCC does not say that gay children should be shunned and discriminated against. It says the opposite. By allowing gays in the Boy Scouts, they are actually following what I quoted from the CCC. By favoring discrimination against these boys, Father is helping to reinforce prejudices that some people have. That is unfortunate.
A post citing the Catechism cannot be objectively disordered. By even saying so, you show that you don’t understand what is meant by the term “objectively disordered”.
Secondly, my claims against the priest who violated the catechism 2358, and using his pastoral office to encouraging others to violate catechism 338, which itself constitutes scandal against the Church doesn’t even have anything whatsoever to do with my own sexual orientation! If I suddenly announced I was straight, and left my partner, and joined a monastery, this priest would still be guilty of these things. To even bring my sexual orientation into the conversation is to resort to relativism.
Thirdly, it must strike most people that to use a person’s lifelong committed relationship as an occasion to ATTACK them is itself odd, if not sinful. This is a relationship that has been filled with love, not only for each other, but for family and friends around us. My mother and his father have gone to their graves knowing that the cloud of love that surrounds them is bigger and fuller than it would have been without our relationship. The members of our family who, today, are sick and in need of the healing power of love and prayer DEPEND upon our relationship for those prayers. So please don’t lecture me about disordered posts. You look love in the face and spit on it.
Mark from PA, that’s just Catherine’s rhetoric. She uses glowing adjectives for herself and whoever she likes and uses derogatory adjectives for those she does not like. It is an attempt to shame which is verbal abuse. It indicates a lack of commitment to truth and an emotional response to intellectual discussion.
YFC and Anonymous,
Perceived “clouds” of love are one thing, when in reality it is ONLY our faithfulness to God’s Commandments that shows our love for God. Homosexual acts are mortal sins.
If you are not living in a completely chaste relationship then someone has deceived you. Mortal sin does not lovingly co-exist with God. I am pleased to see that you reflected for even a moment about joining a monastery to avoid the near occasion of sin. One day at a time. With God all things are possible.
Anonymous, The number of posts on this topic only reflects the subculture that is still working to dismantle Church teaching. Many faithful priests are very grateful to CCD for exposing this subculture.
Taken from Lifesite News Article on Homosexual underground
The formation of the Lavender Mafia
Describing the formation of homosexual cliques of clergy Fr. Oko says:
They know well, however, that they may be exposed and embarrassed, so they shield one another by offering mutual support. They build informal relationships reminding of a clique or even mafia, aim at holding particularly those positions which offer power and money.
When they achieve a decision-making position, they try to promote and advance mostly those whose nature is similar to theirs, or at least who are known to be too weak to oppose them. This way, leading positions in the Church may be held by people suffering from deep internal wounds.
They may actually achieve a dominating position in many areas of church hierarchy, become a “backroom elite” which actually has tremendous power in deciding about important nominations and the whole life of the Church. Indeed, they may even prove to be too powerful for honest, well-meaning bishops.
Fr. Oko also identifies the “the fear and confusion of the clergy, particularly in certain dioceses and congregations, when faced with” the topic of homosexuality. “They escape into silence, unable to articulate even elementary statements on the teaching of the Church on the subject. What are they afraid of?”
“Where does that fear in entire groups of mature, adult men come from?” he asks. “They must be afraid of some influential lobby which wields its power and which they may fall into disfavor with.”
Pope Benedict knows and fought bravely
Reminder: This thread has been closed. No new comments or responses to earlier comments will be posted.
Oh, for more such priests, Catherine. That was such a clear defense of him and I’m thankful for your always keen insights and care for fellow Catholics. It’s a microcosm here of what is going on in the world at large, and we who believe as Catholics always have are now considered ‘fringe’. ha! Well, back to gumming my gruel and putting square beads in round holes…how do you spend your free time, Catherine, in the way far right of outside of enough? I was thinking about what Paul wrote to the Corinthians and how it speaks to all these ‘brilliant’ minds who are smarter than the rest of us…”Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For you see your calling, brothers, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty’
Dana, I would not consider you “fringe”.
The whole same sex attraction idea does not seem to be an infallible teaching of the Catholic Church from the research I’ve found.
jerkensen, prove your claim. Oh, I forgot, you don’t know how to prove arguments. I have not looked at the NCReporter for decades. The problem with your brittle mindset is that you cannot exercise it. You’re afraid of challenges to your relativistic beliefs because your level of faith is unproven, and this is because you don’t have a enough of it to have gained confidence in yourself with respect to Catholicism. They label this condition “reactionaryism”. A wind blows that you have not prepared for, and away you go tumbling down the street.
This thread is now closed to further comment. No new comments or replies to older comments will be posted.
Interesting Wayne, that you would identify yourself with the bully from Back to the Future—which, btw, I think is a perfectly accurate self-characterization.
Hello, Wayne, the BSA expects it’s Scouts to refrain from sexual activity. Consequently, how do STD’s apply? Maybe you should take a refresher course in basic biology if you think that gays can spread AIDS by toilet seats.
Scouts, JonJ, go through various learning skills using sharp tools and instruments, and walk around in the wilderness (at least they did when I was a Scout), and these activities invite and produce blood … HIV heads in this milieu are lethal weapons waiting to pop their corks.
As sure as the sun rises, all CCD has to do is put up an article about young boys and the lavender commentators go crazy. I’m sure Mark from PA, YFC, JonJ, peter, Jim McCrea, Chuck A…, and St Peter (we get it), are ready to sign up as Scout leaders, that is, as long as the meetings don’t interfere with their NAMBLA commitments.
Gravey, if you had an ounce of compassion in you, you would realize that 1) CCD puts up far more anti-gay posts than could possibly be warranted to sustain the life of the average Catholic and that 2) ALL of the people you name in your post have disavowed NAMBLA by name and its practices repeatedly, over and over again, from the moment we stepped onto this platform until today. Please try to read carefully what is written here before you criticize.
What YFC construes as “anti-gay” is actually pro-Jesus Christ. Since Jesus exists, then gayness is shown for what it is, spiritual darkness and evil.
Gravey, nobody here has ever said a word in support of NAMBLA. I don’t even know anyone who is in or ever was in NAMBLA. I think it is a creepy group. I think you are out of line in your comments. Making up gossip about people and making rude implications is not very Christian.
I apologize for the NAMBLA remark.
Awesome. Cool. CHRISTIAN! You made my heart happy.
Thank you gravey, I appreciate the apology and accept it for myself.
And by the way, I’ve got no intention of being a Scout leader. I’d be terrible at it!
Thank you for the apology, Gravey. The abuse of children is a painful subject and I hope that by making people more aware of the damage that it causes that more children will be protected. May God bless our innocent children.
Some of the Catholic diocese have issued statements. In general, they say that the Catholic Boy Scout troops will continue as they always have and that Catholic morality will still be taught in them.
What would you expect a “diocese” to say, Anonymous? Do you find a one to one correlation between diocesan statements and Catholic practice? What about those of Los Angeles, Boston, etc?
We must never tolerate sin. LOVE IS NOT TOLERANCE.
“Love forgives the sinner, and it hates the sin; it is unmerciful to the error in his mind. ” – Bishop Fulton Sheen.
” Charity, then, is not a mild philosophy of “live and let live”; it is not a species of sloppy sentiment.
Charity is the infusion of the Spirit of God, which makes us love the beautiful and hate the morally ugly. “: – Bishop Fulton Sheen.
” Real love involves real hatred: whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the buyers and sellers from the temples has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth. ” – Bishop Fulton Sheen.
Yes Sandy, you are right. But you imply that being gay is a sin, which it is not. These kids are mostly virgins, and are as innocent as any other kids their age. The sin, here, is among those who would toss out an entire generation of kids because some of them have a trait that even the Church contends is part of the territory for a not insignificant number.
homosexuality , i.e. ‘sodomy”…is a sin that cry’s to Heaven for vengeance! No amount of rationalization will alter this reality. The scriptural prohibition on this activity is clear…comparing a person that eats in excess, to a person who enjoys sodomy is not comparable…JonJ., you are a purveyor of lies…prevarication is your game…have a moment of clarity son, and rethink this lunacy!
Wayne, please consult the CCC for a more complete picture of how the church views homosexuality.
YFC, you still have not proven that the idea of same sex attraction being a condition is dogma. It rather seems to be a passing fad, tossed into the CCC by a bureaucratic group of commitees. Why don’t you study up on the writings of the saints and doctors of the Church and the Apostles?
Debating the “virtue” of homosexual romance with a pervert is beyond futile…it’s like a dog chasing it’s tail…round and round it goes! YFC knows the truth of the matter…he doesn’t like my answer…he wants another…the answer will not change…no amount of reflection, will cause me to somehow conform my value system, to his warped and twisted value system…google the “animals’ that march in the Castro District…click the images link on your tool-bar…one charmer, was decked out as “old scratch”…complete with devil horns, man-grease, generously slathered on his bloated frame, and an eerie, sinister variety of demonic symbols, prominently displayed on his half naked frame…
All the doctors and saints that I have found refer to the act, not even word or thought. Same sex attraction is not called a condition in the CCC. The teaching in the CCC is there because it was in declarations by the Holy See. They were put out by the Committee on Doctrine and its head, Cardinal Ratzinger and approved by John Paul II. It is the same committee that oversaw the writing of the CCC. As you know, Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI.
Still, Anonymous, you have not shown it to be an infallible dogma.
Skai, an infallible dogma? No, your correct. It would not be that.
Not everything that is true has been declared infallibly. The Immaculate Conception did not suddenly become true in 1950 when it was declared infallibly to be dogma.
And I say to you again, the biological genesis of homosexuality is a matter of science not of faith or morals.
Skai, numerous documents from bishops around the world discuss the fact that the number of persons with homosexual attractions are not negligible. What is dogma vs what is doctrine are different things as I’m sure you know. And so far as I know, there have been no Doctors of the Church alive when Western understanding of homosexuality developed in the last century or so.
However, it is also the authoritative teaching of the Church that it is competent in matters of faith and morals but relinquishes any claim to speak authoritatively on matters of science. Therefore, I think, scientific opinions regarding homosexuality, its status as an “orientation” or “condition” and even whether it is natural or not – is beyond the reach of the magisterium to teach authoritatively. Instead, the Church needs to listen to professionals in matters of science and encourage full academic freedom to pursue ever greater understanding of the world in which we live, including the genesis of sexuality.
“Western understanding of homosexuality developed”: YFC, same sex attraction is not a science. To claim that God creates temptation is not Catholic, but opposes Catholicism.
YFC how you so want to Church to capitulate to your perverted views, Please Lord lift this burden of filth from us and let your laity purge the Church like never before
The “genesis of sexuality” is explained fully in the Genesis story of Adam and Eve after the Fall. This understanding is bolstered over the centuries especially with God’s Laws given through the Ten Commandments and articulated in accounts in Deuteronomy and Leviticus. What these show, as Anonymous has inadvertantly pointed out is that it is the act and not the condition that determines whether one is a homosexual. Go over the Anonymous blog until you can see this.
Skai & Canisius: Magisterial documents themselves point to the fact that we don’t know the genesis of homosexuality. So you have a gripe not only with me but with the Bishops and their teaching magisterium. But what’s new?
False: “it is also the authoritative teaching of the Church that it is competent in matters of faith and morals but relinquishes any claim to speak authoritatively on matters of science. ” YFC, your version is poor composition, due to a faulty understanding of what the Church teaches … or else you are intentionally trying to deceive. Science is not separate from the Church, for after all, God created both: Your poor compostion, YFC, splits creation up into what, perhaps, St Augustine might see as an example of Manicheism, where creation is split into good and evil. You should review, thoroughly, the major heresies and seek to identify which of them you need to exorcise from your belief system.
You are right about that YFC I think most of Bishops are useless feckless men like my own Cdl Dolan who thinks that so called Catholic Governor Cuomo is a “catholic in good standing” despite that fact he proposed and openly pushed for gay marriage in NY state. He is currently supporting one of the most radical abortion laws in the country and is currently shacked up with his girl friend (or maybe he married her). Yes YFC I have a lot to gripe about and pray that God will soon purge His Church of the Filth that has occupied it, that would include people like you.. I pray I live to see it
Sandy,that’s a brilliant and startling quote from Ven. Fulton Sheen; thanks for giving it. And Fr. Perozich is to be absolutely commended for doiung his job as pastor of that church in Escondido; I’m sure he’s going to suffer from taking that action, and it will be from all the “cafeteria Catholics” in his parish. But I say ‘God bless him’; once again, he’s DOING HIS JOB AS PASTOR OF SOULS in his parish. Notice the “usual suspects” coming out of their spiritual dung hills taking the good father to task for DOING HIS JOB, and also attacking the defenders here on this site who have the moral and spiritual cojones to call a spade a spade: for it’s LETHALLY SINFUL to indulge in your personal promiscuity JUST BECAUSE one might have the S.S.A. affliction; you don’t get some kind of a badge for doing so, and we’re not all supposed to just FALL IN LINE because it’s the P.C. sexual flavor of the decade, “being gayhomo.” I say, as I’ve said in the past, GET OVER IT, join Courage or any of the other groups TRYING to do something positive about S.S.A., and HELPING these poor souls who may struggle with that affliction. (I’m not so naive as to believe that it’s a struggle with ALL those who have S.S.A.; I’ve seen and heard too much to buy into that line of thinking. Some with it have allowed to let themselves become besotted with the depravity that INDULGING in S.S.A. ALWAYS brings.) In any case we ALL struggle in this lifw with overcoming a lifestyle too much marinated in, be it drug addiction, exscessive drinking promiscuous heterosexuality, and so on. Why should struggling with gayhomo attraction be some kind of “protected” sinfulness, studiously allowed by the usual assortment of Hollywood celebrities, et al, who at the same time condemn preborn humans to murderous obliteration through maniacal “choice.”? Sounds uber hypocritical to me. But what do I know? I’m just a product of that religion hated- by- just- about everyone today, Roman Catholicism. Poor me. Hey, look, I’m marinating in self-conscious pity for myself too. GOD BLESS ALL, MARKRITE
Good bye. Who needs them. The sooner religion dies and disappears completely the better. All religion does is turn people into narrow minded sex obsessed little drons who are incapable of any independent thought. News flash people – the bible is a work of fiction and while some of the stories within the bible contain some good lessons (ie: treat others as you wish to be treated) its sole purpose when created was to control people and it worked. But now after thousands of years and all the knowledge we have about life and the universe it is time to let go of such childish beliefs. Welcome to the 21st century.
Gord, how is it you cling to the Bible when it instructs us to treat others well, but not when it says something that contradicts your daily bread? After all, you call for being treated as you wish, but reject the response of treating others as they wish, such as the Catholics, the Bible writers, those who reject sodomy, etc. To note, that sodomites wish to be treated abusively … so what is your gripe?
Wow, my distant immature past echoing through the ages! Thanks Gord, for you’ve brought me such a bright burst of joy to remember that I too spouted the same rhetoric and cliches years ago and now I’m free of such mean-spirited and unkind nonsense (and forgive me Gord, but also amazingly shallow…are you serious, or are you just playing the devil’s advocate here for a joke?) I’ve never been more intellectually challenge since my conversion to Catholicism in 2007. My only regret is that I wasn’t born and raised a Catholic, but at least my golden years are truly golden. Just ask our Lord to show you what is true and be open to the working of the Holy Spirit. Such spiritual and intellectual delights await you, and you’ll find yourself actually caring about the sick and the dying, wanting to save innocent babies from being ripped in pieces from their mothers’ wombs and being loved like you’ve never been loved in your life. Jesus is crazy about you Gord! I hope everyone that contributes to CCD prays for you today, Gord. You came here for a reason. May God richly bless you!
Lovely post Dana! : )
Well, I don’t know, Catherine…so many just make a bomb drop here and keep on flying south. ;0) I do know that our prayers are never in vain though…it’s about all we can do. It was heartening to see that Illinois tabled the same sex faux marriage bill and that surely sent a message to obama as he was there today, probably in anticipation of a big fat celebration. Pro-life people had big pictures of abortions to greet him when his motorcade (with Pelosi, the poppet of primitive progressivism, no less) gas guzzled its way to the big fat expensive hotel. All I see when the D.C. locusts descend on hapless victims like Henry VIII on an eating binge, is $$$ being sucked into the big spending machine known as ‘The Administration”…but, I digress.
“Pelosi, the poppet of primitive progressivism”: literature at its finest, Shakespeare move over.
No, the Bible is the infallible word of God. It was not created to control people, but to transmit the revelation that God has given to mankind, to enlighten them as to the fullness of their dignity and the possibility of fullness of life. If you have not read it, please do so. And please spend some time thinking about the possibility that there is a Being who is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving, eternal and infinite that guides the world to Himself, permitting freedom and suffering, but consoling and healing those who suffer. I know this will rouse anger, but I must tell you, this website is often frequented by a fringe element of the Catholic faithful and is not representative of Catholicism or Catholics. Please visit a Church or if you are formerly Catholic, please contact a priest and present to him your difficulties. Please join us. It is good that you exist and we want you to understand the real Faith. You are still free to reject it, but I hope you don’t.
It is the Holy Ghost who transmits the truth, Anonymous. Books are inanimate things and cannot transmit anything at all. It is not your “enlightened” mind that transmits the truth, but God who transmits truth, because God is the Truth. Jesus is the “Way, the Truth, and the Life”. The Bible is not the truth, but is a book that records what people have said about the truth. To gain the truth, you have to humble yourself and receive it from God.
And, Anonymous, even then, as St Paul says, “we see through a glass darkly” (this protestant translation of this verse is a lot better than the others. It means that even reading the Bible in faith, you can gain only some of the truth but not all. However, if you interpret it on a mystical level, you could say that the receipt, for example, of the Holy Eucharist while in a state of grace you would be receiving the entire truth. But, Anonymous, you would surprise me if you understood this.
Hebrews 4:12 and yes, when you receive the Holy Eucharist you receive the Fullness of God’s Revelation, Eternal Truth. And yes, reading the Bible was described by St Ephraim “What we understand in the Bible is much less than what we leave behind, like thirsty people who drink from a fountain.” And yes, we must be humble. When one reads the Bible, God is speaking to them.
God speaks, but even Bible readers do not always hear. The Bible is inanimate and cannot speak; so be careful how you interpret what Anonymous at 10:02 has posted … He does not, nor does his quoting make the question completely clear … you still have to rely on further knowledge for it, but he has made an important step towards clarification.
“And yes, we must be humble. When one reads the Bible, God is speaking to them.” That is not what St Ephrem said, Anonymous.
The St. Ephraim quote was in the quotation marks. Then the quote ends.
I’m confused. Why was the former Boy Scout policy unjust? It stated its policy and you could choose to be a part of it or not. It was a choice. Not an injustice. I’m flumuxed as to why it is unjust. I don’t get it. the whole argument and outcome is ridiculous.
The prior policy was unjust because it did NOT allow some kids to choose to be a part of it or not, to borrow your phraseology. It utterly rejected membership by about 4% of kids.
The nature of a policy always includes exclusion, YFC. If you’d only cease your incessant sodomic activities for a while, then maybe your mind would begin to heal and you wouldn’t say irrational things.
Not true, YFC. It only denied membership to those kids who openly flaunted their same-sex desires.
Those who never mentioned sex were in Scouting along with all the other kids.
Choice, as we find today in the political sphere is a fabrication stemming from the Calvinist ways of dominating everything and then doling it out according to their flim flam whimseys.
Well done good and faithful Father
I read an article many years ago about a scoutmaster who was busted for “voyeurism”…he was your classic peeping tom…the only difference was this pervert, was eye-balling ladies in his neighborhood! though straight, a degenerate low-life nonetheless…
There is a letter from the Chariman of the National Committee on Catholic Scouting on their website. It says that each diocesan bishops will make the decision on whether to continue with BSA. He references Ed Peter’s blog. He is a canon lawyer.
Canon lawyers do not run the Church, Anonymous. The intercede in the prospects of the transfer of money.
Anyone who get’s their jollies savaging another man’s bowel’s for sexual gratification is one sick, twisted, bestial excuse for a human freakin’ being.
Wow wayne, you have a very explicit visual image of the thing you seem to find so disgusting.
But for the record, homosexuality is only tangentially related to your comment. Lesbians might feel exactly the same way you do, for example. Many, many gay men also do not engage in the behavior you so graphically describe.
The behavior you describe is really not what is at issue here anyway. We are talking about kids, really, kids who are about 14 or 15 and, whether gay or stragiht, have probably never acted on their desires except possibly a kiss or two.
Kids shouldn’t be excluded because of what they think or feel. Let’s face it, adolescense is a confusing time for everybody, and when teens get excluded for whatever reason, it can scar them for life.
Isn’t it better to have an across the board standard that sexual activity by anyone is not appropriate in Scouts, and is therefore impermissible in the Scouts, rather than to single out individuals who are asking honest heartfelt questions about their sexual identities?
No need to be so graphic, really, whether we are talking about straight kids or gay kids.
When kids openly flaunt sexuality – they do not belong in the Scouts.
There should be no discussion of sex in Scouting.
Yes, exactly, that is what everybody is saying. The argument is because some people assume that will happen. Remember, there was nothing in the Boy Scouts statement that said “openly gay” the Boy Scouts statement said that membership would not be denied because of sexual orientation or preference ALONE. Everyone, even Kenneth M. Fisher who posts here and was a 30 year Scouter, admits that that was always the de facto policy.
For the record, you are NOT doing yourself or any fellow Catholics any favors by showing up on CCD trying to sound like the benign and gentle Ozzie Nelson of homosexual unions. Please do NOT undermine a faithful priest. When you have your total conversion it will be *one less thing* that you will have to be truly sorry for. You have some very good qualities but you have been seriously misled and mis-catechized and you do NOT even realize it. I am going to request a Mass under the category of a “special intention” for a total conversion to the fullness of truth. I don’t know who you are but God certainly does.
Thou shalt not equate deviate behavior with normal behavior.
YFC, even the inclination to action perverts the mind, heart, and soul. Little by little such attitude serves to exclude these boys from the normals. Now you want to force the normals to pervert their nature and mix with the twistos. Don’t you see by your eyes how different the two groups are when it comes to many activities?
OmiGod, what a torrent, a viper’s den of snarky uber-confused mental processes were unleashed by this courageous Catholic pastor! And all because he used his Catholic leadership as a pastor rightly, as every leader of God’s flock should do. In other words, he was OBEDIENT to his calling as a Priest of Jesus Christ! He’s trying to protect his flock from error and sin as spewed forth from the mouths of so many trolls who write in here on this site, ALWAYS whenever the subject of homosexualism in all its depraved forms rears its ugly head in this increasingly demonically disoriented society. I say DOWN with the BSA if it’s leaders don’t have the intelligence and guts to fight against this latest assault upon innocent boys, and don’t go to the mat for them to protect them from their homo predators. I’;m with Ken Fisher on this: VIVA CRISTO REY! DOWN WITH THE ORWELLIAN OBUMMER SOCIETY AFFLICTING US. And maybe when the smoke finally clears, ’cause don’t delude yourselves, folks, one helluva fight is coming over this, I do believe, perhaps America will finally transform itself into the Roman Catholic nation I’m beginning to believe that’s EVOLVING from all this hellish confusion that now surrounds us. GOD BLESS ALL, MARKRITE
God bless you markrite. Have some tea. Sleep well tonight.
A question Markrite: You wish for America to become a Roman Catholic country. The clearest path for that would be to completely open the boarders to Mexicans, Brazilians, Peruvians, Clileans. These are Roman Catholic Countries, and they want to enter into the US.
So I’m just wondering if that is what you had in mind?
NO YFC the clearest path is the unabashed preaching of the Faith by the institutional without fear of offending people like you, the homo-sex left, which BTW I rather enjoy offending
Well, Canisius, I’m sure you have driven many to prayer. Unfortunately the prayer was “Lord, save me. From your followers”.
And of course we cannot forget the words of St Teresa of Avila, who was bounced out of her buggy and landed in a mud puddle, “Lord, if you treat your followers like this, no wonder you have so few of them”. John 6, many disciples bailed on Jesus when He told them about the living Bread. YFC, you’ve bailed but keep trying to convince people that you have not.
Canisius, fyi, not quite on topic, but “target of opportunity”: I got into a discussion with a semi retired man where I work from time to time, just the other day. He served in the 26th Marine “Raider” Regiment in the jungles of VN in 66-67, commanded two M60’s, constant combat w/o let up for 13 months, little guy but lost 20# during that time. I tried to cheer him up with my reservist humor but to little avail. I find myself no nonsense life or death in this religious arena. There is not nearly the pain, suffering, deprivation or difficulty as in the flesh and blood war zone, and it is a matter of faith instead of direct observation that our lives are eternally at stake. There are critically important lessons for religious endeavors to be found in the chronicles of combat.
Skai the CC thought police did not post my response, but you are correct we are in the middle of a battle for souls, most the church nice that post here have no idea what they are up against, part of this is due to the homosexualization/feminizing of the Church and its leaders, I highly doubt any of them will endure the coming persecution.
Wayne, you do realize that Biff was much dumber than George McFly in Back to the Future, don’t you?
Boy Scouts vary in age from 11 to 17. Let’s take a 12 or 13 year old who has likely been made fun of by his peers and thus has not developed many male friendships. Since puberty happens at this time, something goes haywire and his need for peer friendship gets sexualized (I’m not sure I agree with this causation of SSA, but it’s the theory that Courage follows).
So our 12 year old says “I’m gay”. Whereupon his local Scout troop kicks him out. Since he goes to the parish school where Mr. Perovich is pastor, he’s kicked out of every social club, sports team and any boy’s activity related to the parish. His parents are told he can’t attend school.
His peers refuse to invite him to birthday parties, talk to him on the phone or even speak politely to him. Typically he’s addressed around the neighborhood as, “pervert, freak and f—-t”. Unsurprisingly, he ends up sitting around his house a lot playing video games.
What, exactly, will your cute rationalization mean then, Wayne? What difference will it make to this kid’s life? Will Mr. Perovich even notice that this kid used to be part of his parish when he hangs himself?
Did you see the letter from the pastor at Our Lady Star of the Sea in Bremerton WA? He has banned the Boy Scouts because he does not want a person such as you describe being affirmed in the identity of being gay. But he says he will bring in other activities for the parish youth and everyone will be accepted. He lists a lot of “causes” of homosexuality (which could just be correlative).
Just because a people or nation have been mostly baptized Catholic, does not mean they and their children will remain Catholic.
Bishops (and their Priests) need to work on the catechesis of literate AMERICAN (USA) adults because that is their job – so that adults may help teach their children and others.
When the Bishops do not encourage people to read the Bible and the CCC, then we must do their job for them. :(
I’m just curious as to how many adult education opportunities there are in your parish and whether you have attended them? If so, were they orthodox?
Anonymous, how do you define “orthodox”?
No, YFC, the way a Catholic nation is made is by holiness.
All the torrent popped out into the open and ran off into their accustomed ponds … once again.
Right on, Fr. Perozich. You’re most articulate, and correct in what you’re saying. I think it’s time for an authentically Catholic version of the Boy Scouts.
He treated kids (Children!) the way some people treat Catholic priests-like they are a bunch of perverts who are trying to get into every boy’s pants. He should not have said what he said. He distorted Church teaching. He doesn’t want other kids around them in Boy Scouts? They go to school with them, they go to Church and Sunday School with them, they are on sports teams with them. These are people-young people who needed to see Christ’s love. And they got a faith inspector- a faith inspector who couldn’t even get the Church’s teaching right. And no, I am not gay. I fully support every authentic teaching of the Catholic Church.
Then you will love your neighbors, and NEVER tolerate sin, sinful lifestyles, etc.
Not discriminating does not mean tolerating their sins, or teaching those sins (by example or any other means) as an acceptable lifestyle to other children.
Boys who flaunt and make public their sexual desires (or sins) are looking for something other than clean fun in Scouting.
There is nothing wrong with keeping their personal sexual preferences to themselves while at all Scouting activities. It is their own business.
And these boys have always been accepted in Scouting.
MEGAN – reminder: these kids were not accused of any sin. Their lifestyle consists of algebra, soccer and campfires. Yet they were shunned, and as a result of this shunning, entire classes of other kids have to suffer as well.
YFC – you are wrong. All boys who have lifestyles of algebra, soccer, and campfires were always welcome in the Scouts.
Only those who loudly proclaimed “I am Gay” – were shunned, and should be.
Public Sexual Proclamations have no place in Scouting. Those publically flaunting their sexual desires were not lifestyles of algebra, soccer and campfires.
Questions of sexual preference have never been asked of any child in Scouting.
Don’t forget – we must never TOLERATE sin.
And for those children who proclaim same sex attraction, we must tell them that the “lifestyle” is not acceptable.
To Anonymous says –
And the Lord knows when the Devil and his disciples twist words and reinterpret Catholic belief.
Yes, and I do know a liar and a coward by its words!
Baron writes, “Yes, and I do know a liar and a coward by its words!”
Thank you for wisely calling out this duplicitous poster! The father of lies achieves his best success with such individuals who tells certain listeners that they agree with “all” Church teaching while behind the scenes they are vicious traitors who fool the trusting, the good and the gullible. They “anonymously” undermine and attack every excellent priest who has upheld Church teaching on homosexual issues. Clergy has also done this do fellow clergy members and the trusting laity is not always aware of such evil tactics. There are clergy members who are very threatened, annoyed and irritated by a priest who follows Christ and the example of their patron St. John Vianney…ESPECIALLY when the priest preaches, teaches and then walks the walk and ACTS like a TRUE Catholic priest.
The point is, Catherine, that the priest DID NOT uphold Church teaching on homosexual issues.
Catherine, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that homosexuals persons should not be discriminated against. So if someone says that gay boys should be shunned and excluded from the Boy Scouts, that person is not upholding Catholic teachings. When my brother got out of the Army in the 1970’s he got a job in Virginia. The city that he lived in was in a heavily Baptist area. Catholics were not well thought of there. When I went to visit I was told that they didn’t have any public swimming pools in the city. It turns out that they had 2 pools but when the city was told that they had to open the pools to everyone, some people were upset about this so they filled the 2 pools in with dirt. I can just imagine that ending discrimination in the Boy Scouts will not go over well in this town. Discriminating against groups of people that one dislikes is not “Church teaching”.
Catherine, you should re-read the post you wrote May 28 3:52 on the Bishop Barber ordination article.
PA, prove that what the CCC claims as far as same sex attraction or homosexuality is inerrant. You won’t be able to. The CCC itself is not magisterial, although it contains some magisterial texts. If it were, then they wouldn’t change it which they have done.
It is a great danger to personalize the Catholic Faith. One must be very careful to educate oneself in and hold oneself to the revealed Truth. When one does not, an even greater danger arises. One leads others astray and when corrected, one attacks those who accurately present the Truth for not conforming to the faulty version of the Faith that is held by the person who considers himself truly faithful either out of ignorance or stubbornness.
Anonymous, prove that the CCC is magisterial. How many times do I have to challenge you to do this, and how many times do you ignore it, yet continue to use it unquestioningly? Same with PA. Jesus teaches us anything but blind obedience. A. If you blindly obey, then you obey without knowing or understanding … what value is that? B. Jesus teaches us to ask, to seek and to knock on His door. “Ask and it shall be given, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you”. But your mindset presumes you know what you’re talking about, and commands others to follow you: Jesus warns us, “The blind follow the blind”.
You’ve never challenged me to prove that the CCC is magisterial. But if you need proof, well, you could look at the title. You could read the Apostolic Constitution Fidei Depositum. Or even the Apostolic Letter Laetamur Magnopere. Or you could ask a priest. I don’t know who you are or whether you are Catholic. Your writings would make it seem that you are not. Obedience without understanding or knowing is valued by God; it is trust. Nobody really understands God. Your distrust of the Catechism is beyond sad. If you are Catholic, you should know that you can trust it. You are bound to it. While not infallible, it is a sure norm. I do not presume to understand God or even to know God. I think your posts which cast doubt on the teachings of the Church are scandalous. In the true meaning of the word-they could lead someone astray. Catholics do not rely on their own reasoning or intelligence. The Church is a hierarchy. It is like the military. You are expected to obey. It is OK to question in order to increase your level of understanding, but “Blind” obedience allows you to perform at a level higher than your own understanding. Somethings you have to do to understand. You have to believe in order to see.
Skai, I am not saying we should have blind obedience but I think following the CCC makes more sense than blind obedience to your opinions, especially when your opinion is not in line with Church teaching.
Anonymous, you are what is known as a “cultural Catholic”, and you have little knowledge or understanding of the Catholic religion. What you post is basically go along to get along pseudo Catholic tripe. Nothing you have posted would ever under any circumstances get you crucified.
PA, Catholics follow Jesus, who is the Good Shepherd. The CCC is not a living thing, let alone our God. You study the CCC, as some other posters have said, and learn about Catholicism. You follow Jesus, who lives, and who those in a state of grace receive in Holy Communion, which unites them with God. I’ve often told you this, but you have never responded to it … because you are not capable of responding to it because you are not a Catholic in a state of grace. Following a set of directions works for making things or arguing a court case, but not for getting into Heaven. For that, you have to follow Jesus. I follow a set of directions on how to make an argument, but doing so does not win me the argument, as it only at best can give me some advantage. You may not understand this, because you do not know what the purpose or essence of an argument is. The important thing, PA, is to stop claiming you’re a Catholic and then talking against the most basic Catholic doctrines such as the Holy Trinity.
Jesus excluded gays from His followers. He did this initially by killing thousands of them many centuries previously and then through the lethal Mosaic Law.
Name one gay disciple of Jesus, Anonymous.
Wow, Skai, you really have your own theology there. You seem to have a fixation on Jesus killing all these groups of people that were enemies of the Jews. Jesus didn’t create the Mosaic Law. That was created by Moses. Although Orthodox Jews follow all the Mosaic laws, Christians don’t. What did Jesus say about the two great commandments, he didn’t say that queer people were excluded.
“Jesus didn’t create the Mosaic Law. That was created by Moses.” You’re hanging yourself, PA. God gave the Mosaic Law to Moses, which is why it is called “Mosaic”. Jesus is God, always was, always will be. Your efforts to isolate Jesus from the Trinity are outed and by your own post.
Mark, you can’t separate the trinity…Jesus was at the beginning, is now and ever shall be. When you receive the Eucharist, you’re receiving the whole trinity!! That is the Corpus Christi that we celebrated at Mass today. I’ve brought this up before and I’m concerned that you’re not getting it…I don’t mean it in anyway critically, but as one sister in Christ to a brother in Christ, God in Three Persons, Blessed Trinity…singular. Jesus became man through Mary, but He’s eternal and outside of time as well. I highly recommend reading Frank Sheed’s “Theology and Sanity” because he explains the Trinity beautifully. I don’t pretend to begin to understand it as it is of God, not man, but I do know that you simply cannot separate the Trinity! Also, I know you’re enjoying playing the role of persecuted and discriminated against noble and God-fearing ‘gay’ guy battling bigots bent on keeping lonely and suffering little gay guys out of scouts and you’re planning on taking your show on the road after you finish playing on the web and in nightclubs, but as most people know, scouts has never kept any little boy out of scouts as sex has never entered into it. The only thing I can possibly see you all fighting for is for little boys that want to dress in skirts and wear their mothers makeup to scout meetings come and make cakes out of themselves and scare young children half to death by a mini-freak show, and as a father, I can’t see you wanting this sort of thing in scouts either,do you? Would you want your son exposed to openly sexual boys?
Don’t get so caught up in your own little drama that you lose sight of what is happening in real-life!
Dana, that was great up until you started putting thoughts into Mark’s head. I do not understand why people feel the need to do that. And of course it’s always something degrading, trying to make the other person look stupid. But of course, those are not Mark’s thoughts, they are yours.
” Although Orthodox Jews follow all the Mosaic laws, Christians don’t”: No again, PA. Your knowledge and understanding of Mosaic Law is extremely faulty. Jesus explains much on this topic and very clearly in the Gospels, which you should finally read for the first time in your life, it would seem. You say you go to Mass all the time, but my guess is that you glom onto only the emotional content, and sort of overlay your prejudicial folklore on it to make up your own private religion.
OK, Skai, lets get this straight. You claim to have some revelation that Jesus traveled back in time and killed thousands of queers? Are you making this stuff up or what? I guess that man in New York that shot the gay man in the face and killed him shouldn’t really be charged because maybe he thought that he was following Christ by killing a gay person. Maybe all those people in New York who have been attacking gay people lately just think that they are doing God’s will.
Dim the lights, soft violins moan in the background whilst Mark enters stage right, bathed in a soft spotlight that highlights his angelic mien and the illusion of a halo wreaths his head.
Raising his tear-filled eyes to the audience he begins his monologue, backed up with a Greek chorus ‘cheek to cheek’ echoing his words…sorry, Mark, but I couldn’t resist. You’re kinda getting a bit carried away here with the wild accusations and rather hysterical rhetoric. Time to take a chill. Also, if people are getting a tad upset with homosexuals trying to destroy marriage as we know it, it might not come as a complete surprise to some of you that there might be some backlash coming your way. The zeitgeist has been pro-gay lately, but don’t be surprised when the the worm turns, as it always does…and don’t be surprised that it is always the Church and your fellow Catholics who will be there for you. And I find it rather chilling that you’re so obsessed with one murder of a gay person and you’re NEVER upset at the deaths anyone else in this way. It’s a bit of a paradox wouldn’t you say that you’re actually really discriminatory against people who aren’t gay? I’ve noticed this about JonJ and others as well. Hmmm. Makes you think, doesn’t it?
The Lord Jesus was there at Sodom with God the Father and the Holy Spirit, Mark PA. That is what Canisius is saying. In other words the Holy Trinity condemned Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins. The excessive sexual sins were “the straw that broke the camels back”, so to speak.
I am not saying that I agree with everything Canisius has said on here because I have not read all his posts, but he is right on that one.
PA, Jesus has always existed. The Holy Trinity consists of Father, Son (Jesus), and the Spirit. Each person of the Trinity is God. For the second time you’ve posted a contrary belief. This is the fundamental Catholic belief, PA. “I believe in one God, the Father … the Son … and the Holy Spirit … “. So goes the Creed, PA. There is perfect union among the three persons of God. Have you ever heard “One God, three Persons”, PA. Now that I think of it, PA, you’ve never posted solid Catholic theology, not at all. Not only do you deny magisterial teaching that homosexual activity is gravely sinful, but now we discover that you do not believe or even are aware of the Trinity. What is your profession of faith, PA?
PA, nice try, but you’re making up a story that has nothing to do with this blog. The story you’re making up would have many facits to it, but you are conjuring up something you’re presuming readers would believe is a slam dunk. But you’re slamming your own dunk, PA.
“Maybe all those people in New York who have been attacking gay people lately just think that they are doing God’s will.” LOL one guy gets killed PA and you turn into a massacre, BTW PA, the victim in this attack actually went back to his attack after the guy had already left. If anything the victim is partially responsible if for not having the brains to keep his mouth shut….
Skai, you are so full of venom. My Prayer for you at mass Sunday is that you comprehend the harm you cause. Please dear Jesus hear our prayer.
Not really like you call it, YFC. I mean, in that you are a homosexual, and in that the Church tells us that thus your moral character is disordered, then there is no reason at all to credit you with any hold on moral reality. You should be trying to learn from those who are not intrinsically disordered. That is the basic learning process … you learn from those who know, instead of those who do not know, those who operate in a sense of good order and not from those who operate in disorder.
YFC, to put it in terms found in the Wisdom books, you may be a prince, but you’re riding your horse sitting backwards in the saddle. That is disorder. If you really ever find a hankering to live in an ordered state, then turn away from all … repeat, all … favor with anything to do with gay, homosexual, same sex attraction. Turn your back on it and do not look over your shoulder after that. Consider the tale of Lots’ wife, who did look back and was then turned into a pillar of salt.
Or, YFC, consider that in spiritual warfare, which this engagement is, any weapon can be used for the good. Venom can be used for the good as well as for the bad. Venom in itself is not bad. How does the prophesy go, something like, in the end, the asp and the child shall rest together in peace. If you are in Christ, then you are in peace … although obviously not completely. It’s the “already and not yet” interpretation of “The Kingdom of God is within you … is here” … but “you” are not totally within the kingdom of God … yet (yet being a word of hope as used here).
Dana, I am not saying anything about boys wearing dresses and makeup to their Boy Scout meetings. I think you are using some strange stereotype here. Or maybe you were just trying to be funny by making a joke. Lets face facts here, more straight boys are openly sexual than most gay boys. In fact for some gay kids it is hard enough just to admit to themselves that they are gay. And I not only have empathy for gay people. Look at the crime of human trafficking. Most of the victims of this are women. How many women are abused by men is really tragic. But I don’t see many stories about this mistreatment of women here and I don’t see many posters going on about it.
Skai, you say “you are a homosexual, and in that the Church tells us that thus your moral character is disordered, then there is no reason at all to credit you with any hold on moral reality”
But WHERE does the Church tell us this? I cannot find it anywhere. Did you just make this up, as you make so much else that you post on CCD?
PA, starving people can hardly change into fat people, but you compare gay people to people who have no way to change. Why do you commit this act of dishonesty?
To the best of my knowledge the Catholic Church does not teach that homosexual PERSONS are morally disordered. The Church says that sex between two persons of the same sex is disordered in that such sex acts are not ordered to procreation. The Church teaches that sexual intercourse not open to procreation is disordered, the act, not the persons.
Yes and the inclination is objectively disordered because the object of the inclination is, like you said, not ordered to procreation and complementarity of the sexes and would be sinful if acted on. But the inclination is not a sin. The act is intrinsically disordered because it is always sinful under any circumstances and for any reason. But you are right, the church not call the people disordered.
Anonymous, both you and PA, have been often requested lately by me to prove that the CCC is magisterial. At least you gave it a try, but you failed. Now you probably understand that you are making claims that you do not really know are valid … doesn’t that kind of get you rattled up a bit? Do you know what it means when somebody confuses culture with religion to the extent that they believe their cultural traditions are one and the same as Catholicism? It means you’re a dull edged sword at the very best, and rusty as well. Such a thing is not much good for the spiritual warfare that Catholics find themselves in; your best hope can only be that someone else keeps you from being eaten by the devil. All you do is advertise your spiritual vulnerabilities.
Do you know what magisterial means?
I really think that you are just amusing yourself by jerking our chains. How come you don’t have time to eat meat and you have all this time to spend on the internet?
Are you saying that your opinions are more magisterial than the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Skai?
This has been posted by others –
to know the TRUTH of what the Catholic Church teaches and requires of all
Catholics – meditate on Holy Scripture,
study the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”,
read the Code of Canon Law,
read GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) for the Ordinary Form of the Mass.
And above all – PRAY; Love God; Love your Neighbor and help him/her to get to Heaven.
Get involved in the Faith. Take nothing out of context to support a sinful lifestyle, but all in entirety. Never tolerate sin.
(The CCC, Code, and GIRM can all be found on the Vatican web site.)
In the words of Jesus – – – Mt 16:18-19; Mt 18:18.
Abeca Christian has to understand that there are forked tongue vipers within our midst whose job it is to reinterpret Catholicism. Their front is comprised of the middle-of-the road “conservatives” who have compromised the Faith to what it is today. The first major error that has caused chaos and confusion among the faithful, as our Lady of La Salette had predicted, was the V2 CCC that not only was rife with heretical advice but contained some blatant lies that were consistent with the propaganda of some antiCatholic interest groups. It is time for devout Catholics and committed Defenders of the Faith to hold the line against the Church’s enemies from without but also those who are within.
Defenders of the Faith, as in the Queen of England?
YFC, the Queen of England is the defender of the face, not the faith.
Try more like Charles Martel… YFC
Whose teaching is this? (Honest question.)
We don’t need to interpret what the Church teaches. The Magisterium has done it for us in the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”.
Re: Homosexuality – #2357, 2358, 2359 & 2396 which must all be taken together in entirety, not merely one phrase or one paragraph.
Any time your brain processes information, PAUL, you are engaging in the act of interpretation. And since Jesus tells us to “discern the spirits”, then I’ll go with Him instead of with you. Is that ok? Can you check the CCC to find out?
See Catherine’s post on Bishop Michael Barber Ordained. It was posted on May 28 at 3:52.
Skai – please provide the exact Bible passage you are quoting, so that we know it is not taken it out of context.
(Quoting with documentation is believable, otherwise it is a personal opinion that can be misconstrued by the individual quoter.)
A correct conscience is required to discern right from wrong. To form a correct conscience we should all do as our Pope asks and study the CCC.
Paul, it is really easier than you’re making it. One word will do, “condemned”.
I would say what is, I promise! my last word on this particular post. It is the duty of every parent and all who work with children to protect them from harm both spirtual or physical and what is being forced on the boy scouts is perpetuating both on a mamoth scale. The militant homosexual movement cares absolutely nothing for the consequences to little boys of forcing their deviant agenda on what was once a wonderful and healthy organization. What also isn’t being addressed is the backlash this unwanted and unnecessary action will have on not only the boyscouts but on peaceloving and caring indiduals who write here upholding the homosexual viewpoint. You don’t deserve to be painted with the same brush as this care-for-naught movement. I have several lesbian friends who are so gentle and loving and would never force their views on anyone. But because this ‘hostile takeover’ of so many cherished institutions is being carried out, I really fear for the truly terrific same-sex people who, I’m afraid, may be affected. Has no one thought what may happen? The American people have been forced on so many levels to have to bend…when is it just too much, and they break? I’m probably just being pessimistic, but it’s certainly happened before in this country.
God’s opinion on all “same sex people” was expressed at the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, or are we thinking that He merely lost His cool for a moment, or that a couple of His angels over reacted?
John 3:16 (and I know you know that one)
We’ve reviewed how it is not possible for Sodom and Gomorrah residents to have all been gay. They were all destroyed, yet only 4% of the population is gay. And if they had all been gay, they would have died out due to lack of procreation, no need for the biblical event. So there must have been something else at work in the story of Sodom & Gomorrah. But that would require us to delve deeply into the Scriptures. I can hardly expect readers of CCD to do that, least of which would by you, Dear Skai.
You could just get a concordance and look up Sodom. You might be surprised at some of them like Ezekial 16:49.
Again, Skai, you need to be reminded that if a heterosexual man sexually assaults another man or threatens to do so, this does not make him gay. Most of the people in Sodom and Gomorrah were not what you would call “same sex people.”
Really PA were you there, or is it you just can’t stand having your precious gay fellow travelers portrayed in a bad light
Not true. Heterosexual men want nothing to do with sex with other men.
Mark from PA, go back to school. Learn the English language.
Have you never heard what goes on in prisons?
Mark from PA, please PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION for your statement of June 3, 2013 at 10:31 am.
Stop making things up. Making things up is called lying.
CCC: “2483 Lying is the most direct offense against the truth.
To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead someone into error.
By injuring man’s relation to truth and to his neighbor, a lie offends against the fundamental relation of man and of his word to the Lord.”
Sometimes it is used as humiliation. In closed male societies (prison, military,) you were not considered homosexual unless you took it. (you know what I mean.)
Christopher and Brian, please read what Your Fellow Catholic said in his post of June 2. Brian, men in prison who are heterosexual, attracted to women, have sex with men since there are no women available. This does not make them gay. Also in history male prisoners have been raped. This has nothing to do with expressing affection or attraction but using sexual violence as a means of humiliating and dominating another person. It is gravely sinful. Christopher, what exactly that I said do you consider to be a lie?
Our Lady Star of the Sea Bremerton Washington “Father Lappe’s response to the New Boy Scouts.” It’s long but I think a lot of CCD readers would like to read it. While there has not been a comment from the diocese of Seattle or it’s Archbishop (Sartain), Father Lappe is removing the Scouts from his parish.
Those with same-sex attraction (only temptation) can get to Heaven.
Acting homosexuals like all sinners can get to Heaven only if they repent.
CCC: ” 2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.”
Rom: 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10; 1 Tim 1:9-10.
JUNE 2, 2013 — Scouts’ policy change said to be ‘not in conflict’ with church teaching
Boy Scouts serve as extraordinary ministers of holy Communion during a Catholic Scouting recognition Mass in 2010 at Sacred Heart Cathedral in Rochester, N.Y. (CNS/Mike Crupi, Catholic Courier)
By Mark Pattison
Catholic News Service
WASHINGTON (CNS) — The head of the National Catholic Committee on Scouting said the Boy Scouts’ vote in May to admit homosexual youth into their ranks is “not in conflict with Catholic teaching,” something by which “we should be encouraged.”
Edward Martin, the committee’s national chairman, said Scouting is “still the best youth-serving program available to all youth.” He added, “We need to use this opportunity to show our commitment to making Catholic Scouting a safe environment for all youth in which the Catholic faith is taught, practiced and nurtured.”
Martin’s message, dated May 29, was posted May 30 on the National Catholic Committee on Scouting’s website, http://www.nccs-bsa.org. He said he wrote it after reading mails, blogs, Facebook posting and several discussions, including with Bishop Robert E. Guglielmone of Charleston, S.C., liaison to the committee for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, and Father Michael Hanifin, national chaplain for Catholic Scouting.
Martin said the Catholic committee is not a voting member of the Boy Scouts of America but is a member of the organization’s Religious Relationships Task Force. In that advisory role, he said, the committee had expressed its concerns, including listing references to Catholic teaching, during a “listening period” established by the Scouts after it announced it was considering the policy change.
“The resolution appeared to respect those teachings and BSA’s responses to our concerns were satisfactory,” Martin said. “We felt that the Catholic Scouters selected as voters could, in good conscience, vote either for or against the resolution.”
Martin noted three principles that remain unchanged for the Boy Scouts despite the resolution’s approval.
“Any sexual conduct, whether homosexual or heterosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting,” he said. “The Boy Scouts of America does not have an agenda on the matter of sexual orientation, and resolving this complex issue is not the role of the organization, nor may any member use Scouting to promote or advance any social or political position or agenda,” Martin added.
The third principle is: “The Scout Oath begins with duty to God, and the Scout Law ends with a Scout’s obligation to be reverent. Those will always remain core values of the Boy Scouts of America.”
Martin cited section 2358 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church in accepting the new policy: “Individuals who disclose a homosexual inclination or a same-sex attraction are to be treated with the same dignity due all human beings created by God,” he said. “This teaching is followed in enrollment policies for Catholic schools, for Catholic sports programs, and for all programs of Catholic youth ministry.”
Since, as a result of the new policy, “no youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone,” Martin said, “we understand this to mean the following: A youth will not be prevented from receiving a rank award or religious emblem simply for having a same-sex attraction; a youth will not need to hide the fact that he has or experiences this attraction, but a youth also will not be encouraged or pressured to disclose publicly the experience of such attraction; (and) a youth thinking or knowing he has a homosexual inclination should not be afraid that he will be bullied or expelled by the Scouting community by disclosing his sexual orientation.”
Martin said that over the next couple of months, the National Catholic Committee on Scouting will develop a task force to help Catholic Scouters dioceses, parishes and the media understand the change, including an online series of questions and answers to help Catholics understand the issues associated with the policy change.
He encouraged Catholics involved in Scouting to “seek understanding of the resolution, the church’s teaching on the subject, and to pray for wisdom. Change is hard, especially when we don’t understand why it’s occurring, what it means, and when we aren’t part of the process. NCCS will do its best to respond to your questions and concerns. We will pray for wisdom ourselves. We ask that Catholic Scouters and chartered organization heads not rush to judgment as the policy does not go into effect until Jan. 1.”
Martin said he found a May 26 posting by Edward Peters, writer of A Canon Lawyer’s Blog, helpful.
In it, Peters said, “Nothing in the new policy or in Boy Scout literature endorses or advocates the gay lifestyle; in fact all members are prohibited from using the Boy Scouts to promote ‘any social or political position or agenda.'”
Peters, who teaches at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit and in 2010 was appointed by Pope Benedict XVI as a referendary for the Apostolic Signature, the Vatican supreme court, also cited section 2358 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church in saying, “The burden of proof lies on those who would discriminate against persons experiencing same-sex attraction to justify that discrimination.”
“If Catholic sponsoring organizations and/or member families can’t conclude that the Boy Scouts are able — perhaps through no fault of their own — to deliver a youth program that actually operates within the parameters expressly — and I think defensibly — asserted by the Boy Scouts, then those Catholic organizations and families will likely decide that burdens of Boy Scout affiliation exceed the benefits,” Peters added.
“But, unless and until that conclusion is demonstrated on the evidence — and not largely on predictions — and notwithstanding that some elements of the gay lobby are likely treating the Boy Scouts as pawns in their own wider projects, I think that Catholics may, and should, take the Boy Scouts at their word. For now at any rate.” END
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