The following comes from a September 21 KPBS News story by Jean Guerrero:
A memorial wall commemorating families separated by deportations now stands outside of a San Ysidro church overlooking the U.S.-Mexico border.
A granite plaque on the cement brick wall quotes Pope Francis: “Church without borders, mother of all.”
Bishop Robert McElroy unveiled the wall Sunday at an interfaith community event celebrating Pope Francis’ historic visit to the U.S. More than 100 people attended the event at Our Lady of Mount Carmel Catholic Church.
Interfaith leaders said Bishop McElroy was appointed by Pope Francis to shepherd a “Church of the Border” in San Diego County.
“That challenge, the challenge of inclusion, is the very heart of the challenge that the Pope has given to the whole life of the church internally and externally,” Bishop McElroy said.
A painting of the baby Jesus, Mary and Joseph tops the memorial wall. Bishop McElroy pointed out that the three in the painting “were undocumented immigrants” when they arrived in Egypt.
Bishop McElroy consecrated the memorial and recounted the story of Pope Francis’ first visit to the island of Lampadusa, a refuge for immigrants turned away from Europe. He said Pope Francis quoted from Genesis, asking, “Where is my brother and where is my sister?” Bishop McElroy said the pope plans to raise that question this week in the U.S.
“We are a nation of immigrants. First and foremost. That is our identity,” Bishop McElroy said. “And yet that identity is repudiated day after day in this nation, when we refuse to embrace the immigrants who have lived here for so long, seeking only to live good lives among us, to be Americans.”
Other religious leaders spoke at the event, held by the San Diego Organizing Project. The event was part of a nationwide celebration by the faith-based community group PICO National Network “to drive the Pope’s message home,” according to a press release.
Illegal immigration is a Trojan Horse being rolled across our borders by the global elites to hasten the bankruptcy and ruin of this country. After that happens who will help the poor which will then include you and me? Socialism equalizes 99.9% of society at the lowest common denominator of existence. The elite controllers remain. That’s what’s going on. The U.S. is 19 trillion dollars in debt, and precisely because it is as bad a money manager as exists on the planet. If we want to increase out debt load to take in hoards who come only because they think they are going to get something for nothing, we deserve what inevitably will become of us. This isn’t about charity, it’s about stupidity.
Hey Bishop, your number one job is to shepherd the flock to heaven, not the masses into the United States! If immigration is your first priority then you need a reality check.
It is perfectly reasonable, rational, and necessary that the US has a border that should be defended. We are under no obligation to let the world in just because they are willing to break our already very generous immigration laws.
If he thinks politics is his job rather than “Salvation of Souls” within the USA – he should resign being a Priest, and run for political office.
If he does not like Saving the Souls of Americans, he can ask Rome to transfer him to another Country.
Only Jesus can save your soul.
Ever since the illegal Hispanic migrants have come to our area of California, the crime rate has quadrupled, drug crimes have increased at an alarming rate, etc’ I am supposed to embrace this for the safety of my family?
That sounds great!
Maybe His Excellency can begin with the pre-natal immigrants hoping top cross the border of birth for life in this country.
A country that cannot control its borders is no longer a sovereign nation. We have no idea how many illegal aliens are in the U.S. Approximately 1/3 of the prisoners in state and federal prisons are illegals. In addition to Hispanics coming across the southern border, Border Patrol have also arrested thousands of Asians and people from various countries of the Middle East. These people are a threat to our national security. Do we need another Sept. 11?
I believe all the September 11 terrorists were legal immigrants.
SOMETHING tells me this will bring down the wrath of the natives once they read it!
Heaven forbid anyone ELSE should move to the United States once our own ancestors took it over from the Indians…
As it should… No one has the right to come here, but leftist don’t understand this…We are being balkanized and it will lead to civil war and the destruction of the country.. Which is what the Left has always wanted, they are inherently evil people…
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
St. Henny of Penny ca 2015
When our European ancestors moved here, this wasn’t a nation. It was free land. Precisely because it was free land, Indians had migrated across the Bering Strait to scatter themselves every which way as a plethora of unconnected tribes. The paganism had produced nothing, there was no development whatsoever. Perhaps not totally unlike the Indian “sovereign nations” of today where casino gambling is a primary means of support, made possible only because it is prohibited nearly everywhere else. Go forth and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. But there’s no talking to ideologues who say we should revert to the stone age.
Despite all the fall da ral, a nation has a duty to protect her borders. Laws must be obeyed and enforced. Anything else is anarchy. Coming from a liberation theology perspective, the Pope as well as most bishops are all for millions coming into the country, with middle class tax payers flipping the bill. This is pure socialism, which is candy coated communism. Previous popes would not be impressed !
As a immigrant, now a USA citizen I said AMEN!!!
What is there about the word illegal that you don’t get, Tony? Did you sneak across the border? Did you marry someone American so you could come here illegally? Do you still speak your own native language? We’re not talking about legal immigrants that came here to help build this society not sap it of its strength and undermine it’s laws and authority. Actually, I think we have become two nations… one with all the power and money with no common sense, no understanding of history or Truth .honesty or integrity forcing their reality and opinions on one with all those wonderful trais but no money or power.
Tony I’m sorry you have to endure such vulgar and baseless accusations here on CCD.
Yes, Tony, since you are now an American citizen, it seems very likely that you learned and followed the laws of this nation to achieve that honorable status, and I too apologize that you were treated to such an indignity in this forum of faithful Catholics. For us to be concerned about an illegal invasion of our nation is one thing; to insult a fellow American citizen is quite another, and I am sorry this happened. I look forward to honest debate on this forum but do become exhausted by personal attacks on individuals, as unworthy substitutes for reasoned discussions.
“….For us to be concerned about an illegal invasion of our nation is one thing; to insult a fellow American citizen is quite another, and I am sorry this happened.”
I am sorry that the conversation is so focused on tone and political correctness. Stop apologizing already. There is no insult. There is rather a necessary upping the ante of conversation to draw attention to the stark difference between legal and illegal immigration.
Where are men? Good Lord send us but a few.
People have often tried to tell you that your standards of discourse here are too low and less than civil.
Would it hurt you to be kind just once?
Anonymous, your standard of what constitutes low and or civil amounts to tepid non-speak. If you lack verve, color, or a spine, don’t blame others. And, please, stop treating others as itty wee bubbies who are incapable of vigorous dialogue.
IOW: Your standard of discourse is to say nothing and mean nothing
And YFC, you never fail to supply. I suggest you reread Hamlet for it is no kindness to use a blunt blade.
It is better to state all your ideas, opinions, beliefs and disagreements without being abusive.
Who are you to determine what is better, Anonymous? Salt with no savor is only good to be thrown out. But then you do seem bent on getting rid of salt so that could be why you opt for flaccid as the only acceptable norm.
That said, one who is hard wired to that which is a lie, will always find that which is true to be abrasive to the senses. This is no doubt why you are so quick to cry abuse.
Oh, not vulgar, surely? And what did I accuse him of? I knew he wasn’t illegal and was addressing something. I hope you’ll be among the hosts to welcome the ten million expected muslims over the next few years, yfc. Maybe you can make welcome signs with little red hearts on them like the teens did in Germany. I wonder how that’s been working out, don’t you? Well, we’ll soon find out won’t we? God bless you yfc, and I mean that most sincerely.
….see how the conversation gets derailed by anything close to actually calling out a problem, Dana? Oh, the lamentation of the inexcusable tone, the indignity of direct speech.
It is just such stifling that turns men off of leadership positions within the Church. And yet we wonder why there is such a state of apathy.
Honestly, Ann, you’re one of the few here that gets what I’m saying…I most assuredly wasn’t accusing Tony of being an illegal…he’s told us a number if times he was an Immigrant. But rather than belabor the point I just wanted to thank you for your humor and goodness and continual support! Also, I’ll miss my old sparring partners, Catherine, Steve, Canisius, Janek et al. I’ll see you occasionally Ann at One Peter Five or Remnant perhaps…with all that’s going on in the Church and this country, I simply cannot take any more liberals. It’s like listening to rap so-called music. I avoid what I feel is wrong or ugly. I
have no tv, read classic books and the Bible and Medieval art etc and savor truth and beauty while I can and…
…and try to create and share it too. Keep praying for Mother Church and for me as I will for you. God bless you and the editors especially whose toil and dedication are undervalued!
Dana, everyone on this board understands that you weren’t accusing Tony of being an illegal. The very thought of that is laughable. But the cackle of, “Oh, you wounded puppy to be whipped, and in public,” is nauseating to the point of farce. The “women” who join on that estrogen fest are merely specters of the truly feminine, caricatures of a bygone era because women have forgotten – by design – what it means to be a helpmate. Being an enabler has become the norm and with mainstream media and the gay agenda whooshing over the landmass like a filthy tidal wave, what can we expect. There are only so many sturdy palms on which to climb and look down at the stewed mess of broken bits and pretense. (Many who have climbed the trees also…
… opt to close their eyes and pretend reality isn’t happening. That only keeps those who could be drawn up to safety from being helped.)
Take a breather from the stench, Dana, and come back when you can. Reality needs to be conveyed somehow. You’re an excellent voice here. That is you actually have “voice” in the literary sense. You’re not a drone who belongs in the slush pile. And while many of the posters are liberal tools, many readers are not. THAT is what brings on the raging hissy fits ;^)
And hey, nice to know you dig Medieval art, too! For reading, I’d highly recommend Divine Intimacy by Fr. Gabriel of St Mary Magdalen, OCD and the Third Spiritual Alphabet by Francesco Osuna. Good stuff, what.
See ya on…
Thanks Ann…my usual yearly sabbatical apparently. My bs detector reaches full capacity and the red light comes on. Danger danger. I’ll try that book. Sounds good. Keep on keepin’ on, good and faithful Catholic.
Good grief. Vulgar?
Would that you would apologize to CCD for the vulgar assertion of being Catholic while promoting anything but. And yet, endurance is what it’s about, YFC. And men should be encouraged to endure, especially that which is vulgar and difficult.
That you seek to make everything soft and sweet to the ears is a testimony that cries out to heaven for help.
I thought that was an odd word to use too, Ann. heh And the little me (anonymous) always a sychophantic echo. I try to remember to pray for them. Getting back to the subject at hand I wonder if many people realize what the consequences of someone from this country trying to cross the border ilegally into mexico are? Jail time is just the beginning. As I mentioned a long time ago I lived in Mexico when I was in the Peace Corps (back in the sixties) and though I really loved the Mexican people, the police and government officials were really legalistic and looking to arrest you for something…even hugging or kissing in public. I wish that this country had done more when they had the chance to try to strengthen democracy in Mexico…
….you are a woman of substance, Dana. No doubt why you could make it in the Peace Corps, raise real men for sons, and live to tell the tales you do minus the saccharin manner which too often translates into accomplishing nothing. Except fainting spells.
God bless you for praying for the myriad souls drunk on stupid. As to strengthening other countries – that’s the gazillion dollar question isn’t it. Or is the plan to empty out every other country and just give it away to the warlords, and their financiers/investors, while the US devolves into the polyglot of poverty?? Whore of Babylon maybe? Used by everyone and loved by none?
Tony, we welcome LEGAL immigrants, not ILLEGAL immigrants.
Glad you went through the trouble to become a US citizen Legally.
ILLEGAL immigrants need to be deported asap.
We need to build that wall, like Israel, China and others have done.
China’s wall wasn’t to keep out immigrants, it was to keep out conquerors…and it is really nothing but a tourist trap these days.
“…. it was to keep out conquerors.”
Precisely, Anonymous. But nations can be conquered in myriad ways. That is what you fail to understand or perhaps you do and just don’t want that reality to get out.
Really? Name me one country that was conquered via immigration of non-combatants.
Ann, you are so right! Where I live we now have large hotels which have real-estate offices in their lobbies. They cater to Chinese investors. And then there is “birth tourism”. The airport in both cases is the point of entry.
North and Soutn America
Really, Anonymous. There’s a first time for everything. But the more you write the more apparent it becomes that you don’t read very much.
…thanks for posting the reality check from on the ground, Tracy. Not that Anonymous doesn’t know this already, but posts that speak to reality are such a bother to those pushing disinformation.
Tony, are you a dual citizen? I am not. If I leave the US, I have to seek permission to be in any other country of the world, even if it is only for a day. By the way I would have to bring my papers. i.e. passport with me.
If the Bishops would stop supporting ILLEGAL immigration there would be no separation of families.
These Bishops are causing part of the problem.
ILLEGAL immigration breeds: breaking up of families, sex trafficking, drug trafficking, murder, increase in Latino gang membership.
DOCTRINE of the FAITH –
CCC: ” 2241 ……. Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions,
especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are OBLIGED to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them,
to OBEY its LAWS,
and to assist in carrying civic burdens.”
Leigh I’m sure if it were not for the character limit imposed by CCD you would have quoted the first part of CCC 2241:
“The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him. Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right ti immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption….”
…and yet you were opposed to the US granting asylum to the German homeschool family who were being unjustly persecuted for their religious beliefs. I don’t get you, YFC. Does not the most prosperous nation, to the extent it is able to welcome the foreigner – especially one religiously persecuted – need to similarly provide?
I’m trying to understand you.
Ann Malley – I appreciate the question and the respectful tone you used to ask it.
The German family was not undergoing religious discrimination. They were trying to escape German laws that prohibit homeschooling of any young student regardless of their faith. There is no “human right” to homeschool that anyone I know would recognize. The family was free to pursue entry into our legal immigration pathways, or to find legal immigration in any other country they chose. In fact, I think it might be pretty easy for a German family to relocate to any other country in the EU (I’d have to fact check that).
I just read that the immigration dept is forcing a Syrian Christian family to leave as well, Ann. For some reason liberals hate this country and want to bring it down one way or another…this self-hatred of one’s own country is a malaise shared by almost all liberals every where. They despise patriotism and call it imperialism, they loathe the middle class and call it unfair to the poor, they despise poor blacks and immigrants who succeded and love this country, like Dr. Carson and Ted Cruze. What they really need is a reality check, like another depression…let’s see how they do when they’re the needy poor too.
The useful idiots just don’t realize that they will be easily dismissed when the time suits. But of course, “that” could never happen to “me” is always the prevailing mentality. Much like times of crisis are always something one reads in a history book, not what’s going on right outside your front door.
Times change. People don’t. That is why the rise and fall of nations is so bloomin’ predictable.
Glad you appreciate the tone, YFC. But whereas you do not think there was a human rights violation, others disagree. Parents have a God given duty to educate their children and when a “state” demands that children be indoctrinated with all manner of filth and penalizes parents for educating their own children that is a human rights violation.
Anne Malley, we all know the reason he did not support them. They were not supporting so-called same sex marriage, which he does. Everyone has an agenda regarding immigration, and sometimes it is good and sometimes it is bad.
Yes, Anne T, I fully understand YFC’s position in this area. I just wanted him to say as much or, at the very least, be caught in his usual double standard.
To come right out and accuse him of hypocrisy would end with the “tone” policy running hither and yon crying, “Oh, my poor baby.”
Look what happened to Dana. No wonder anyone with a spine gets the message and departs. Real men or real women, for that matter, need not apply. And most especially not thinking Catholics who love the Lord.
God bless.
WRONG Anne T. I have no idea whether they support same sex marriage or not. I don’t calculate whether a position is correct or incorrect based on whether the person holding the position holds a disagreeing position on some other issue. That’s preposterous.
And we have the right not be murdered by immigrants in the name of tolerance and compassion…but you on the Left would rather see the country destroyed just so you can you are compassionate.
Exactly, Ann and Canisius. But I wish we weren’t right and that this country could return to the time when liberals like the myriad ones we face today were just a small band of leftist cranks that we were protected from by our own Congress !
Yes, YFC. The character limitation is too short to always quote that is why I put the ….., . However it matters not.
The USA is no longer a prosperous nation. We are over $18.3 TRILLION dollars in debt. The State of CA is over $429 BILLION dollars in debt. In our State allow we have over a MILLION unemployed – not counting those who are no longer looking for work, and over 4 MILLION on food stamps.
“To the extent they are able.” At least under the CCC, we’re off the hook. Because we aren’t able. But ideologues don’t care, because for them, “there is nothing but the revolution.” The liberals have already spent us into a hellhole of 19 trillion dollars in debt. Tidal waves of undocumented, unskilled, uneducated coming across our border will first crush the present lower class of the U.S. into metal sided huts just like the undocumented from Mexico are trying to escape, before the entire financial edifice fails shortly thereafter. And the liberals will get what they ultimately want: the total devastation and ruin of what little is left of Christendom.
Debt is not a liberal legacy, but a conservative one: https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2015/01/BO_percchange.png&w=1484
Recall that George W Bush came into office with a surplus, and plunged the country back into huge debts with a trillion dollar tax cut for the wealthiest people and then giving a medicare drug plan that prohibited negoatiating lower prices and then another massive tax cut.
YFC, I won’t defend Bush but he had some HUGE costs that were beyond his control – this included but was not limited to 9-11 New York clean-up, and hurricane Katrina in New Orleans.
You cite the Washington Post? I didn’t even bother to click on it. People do not understand that the Federal Reserve operates a debt-based monetary system. It’s the diabolic taxation contrivance of socialist international bankers created in 1913 and approved by left-wing Woodrow Wilson. Every dollar in existence represents a dollar of debt owed by the U.S. government to the cartel of FED banks. The U.S., with no means of production, can repay the interest on this debt only by taxing the populace. Hence the 16th Amendment was ratified the same year to legalize income tax to pay the federal bankers. These thieves are not capitalist; they’re rich socialists who impose totalitarianism on the masses like all good socialists. Marx said:…
The remainder of my post of 9/27/15 at 2:14 pm:
Marx said: “Communism is the monopoly of capitalism.” Economic liberalism, i.e., loose money, is strangling this nation. Republican or Democrat has (almost) nothing to do with it. Freemasonry controls all.
Well, all I can say is that if you think that the government should not tax people to defend our borders, keep terrorists and militaries from attacking us, build roads and bridges, then I pity what the country would look like after you abolish all taxes.
And, yes I cited the Washington Post, and real data, and proudly so. If you prefer to read Ron Paul’s garbage instead – fine, but don’t consider yourself an educated or thoughtful man.
You’re the one who said debt was a conservative legacy, in spite of the fact that it’s something like 4 times what it was at the beginning of Obama’s presidency. But my response is that the real problem is the monetary system which pays interest on money created out of thin air. That fact was widely acknowledged long before Ron Paul was even born. The point is, debt cannot be afforded forever, the histories of any number of economies have proven that. What needs to be abolished is not necessarily taxation, but taxation to support debt for the sake of international bankers. That’s a nuance, OK? Insult me all you like, I consider the source, but suffice it to say my educational and professional background is beyond your conception.
….it is precisely because you made sense, Ralph, that YFC was compelled to respond the way he did.
In other words, you present yourself precisely as an educated and thinking man. The most frightening foe of all ;^)
I am not going to argue with you about what the data shows when you won’t even look at the data and you say x is “something like”. Look at the data for the last 50 years and you will see that Republican administrations have saddled us with far more debt than Democratic ones. It’s a fact.
You make what you say up, and then say I can’t even conceive of your educational and professional background. Really?
I think it is debatable about whether we are able. I think the Pope thinks we are able, or he would not have raised the Syrian issue in his address before congress. Our population density is a tiny fraction of most countries of the world, and we have the biggest economy and are able to absorb them.
Ya know one of the reasons the American economy is growing faster economically than Europe or Japan is because we have a population growing faster, thanks entirely to immigrants. Immigration is the only way to fund the social security obligations of the baby boomers, so if you ever want to retire, you might want to think about that.
Yes, YFC. The Pope is not dishonest. His personal belief system is many times in error regarding Economics, Science, and Politics
based upon his Argentina experience.
YFC, stop mixing LEGAL immigrants with ILLEGAL immigrants.
There is a huge difference. Please be specific in the future.
Stats from the US Government – approx. 70% of immigrants in the USA today are on government assistance.
On average they create more civic burdens than contributions.
Christine, I address the fact that your number appears to be incorrect in another post. Here is that link, and the study goes into some of the reasons why it is as high as it is. https://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Immigrant-Native-Households
If you have support for your 70% number, please share a link.
Boy – this is the second post I notice I forgot to put my moniker in the box: That was me at 11:12 AM
Leigh, it doesn’t say to deny them the right to immigrate.
It says “prosperous nations”. The USA is no longer a prosperous Nation, neither is the State of CA – see my post of today to YFC with facts.
ILLEGALS are not “guests” – when they break the law they are criminals.
They are not Obeying our immigration laws.
Of course it does. It specifically says that the right to immigrate can be made SUBJECT to fulfillment of conditions. One should not need a day in law school to know that when any right is subject to condition, failure of the condition bars the right. But ideologues don’t care. For them, “there is nothing but the revolution.” That’s why this thing will ultimately be resolved with war in the streets. But Satan was the first revolutionary, and his progeny will also suffer his fate.
And when we have to take refuge in Mexico and Canada, how would you like us to be treated?
Anon-sense. Mexico has some of the strictest anti-immigration laws in the world, and also strict laws against foreigners working in their country. Canada also has relatively strict laws and will actively deport illegal immigrants.
That’s the response of a globalist. I’m not a globalist, and I oppose the coming world government. I’m in favor of free nations. If there’s a problem with a neighboring nation, then our resources are better applied to fix that nation, or bear pressure on it, if anything. Their problem does not become our obligation or we ourselves will be destroyed as well, like you say, seeking refuge elsewhere.
Ever wonder why many Bishops do NOT encourage reading of the CCC ?
Could it be so they can push their own political agenda, rather than the Doctrine of the Faith ?
What do not these Bishops understand about “OBEY the LAW” – and this includes Immigration laws.
Sequi pecuniam.
Every bishop in the US encourages the reading of the Bible and the Catechism.
That is a flat out lie. Out of 300 Bishops in the USA less than 20 actively and prominently promote the reading of the CCC by the Laity which should be a top priority.
Go to each of the California Bishop’s Diocese web sites – and you will NOT find anything about the CCC except for one. Even their Bishops Conference does not promote the reading of the CCC.
Provide links to support your claim. There are only 12 Diocese in CA, only one Bishop’s Diocese supports reading of the CCC.
My diocese has had many initiatives to encourage the laity to read the Bible and the CCC. It isn’t on the website.
Our diocesan newspaper even printed the CCC in installments. Of course, this was before they had a website.
They had a diocesan wide program to read the CCC probably 10 years ago. It was a 4 year program. No, it’s not mentioned on the website.
Our parish and other parishes had meetings and classes that taught catechism and classes that combined Bible and Catechism.
Just because you don’t see it on the website doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. The Bishop’s Conference has the CCC on its website.
Please provide me a link to your Own STATE’s Bishop Conference that references the CCC. The California Bishop’s Conference does not. And to your OWN Parish web site.
– – – – – Bishops and Priests must NEVER stop encouraging people to read both the Bible and CCC at home.
It should be on ALL Diocese and Parish web sites.
Contact your Diocese and your own Parish and ask them to include acknowledgment of these two most important teaching books in the Catholic Faith on their web sites.
First question for our Bishop. Why the deceit when talking about legal vs. illegal? No country brings in more immigrants than the USA. So is this Bishop proposing open borders? And if so, can he be more honest in his desire to allow anyone who crosses over the border, a free pass?
Second Question. How much is the government paying you to promote and shelter people who broke our laws? Catholic Charities, CRS and the USCCB have developed cottage industries making money off illegal aliens. But they fail to ask the citizens of this country if we agree with practice of assisting those who have committed a crime.
Third Question. Who will remake your false plaque for you? Egypt was part of the Roman Empire during the time of the Jesus. the Holy…
Diane, great post!
McElroy’s predecessor, Bishop Cirillo, focused on Catholic education. What is McElroy going to do to foster Catholic schools and education? Is he going to promote the TLM? So far, all I’ve heard is that he wants open borders and welfare for the immigrants.
Bishop McElroy states, “We are a nation of immigrants. First and foremost. That is our identity,”. Shocking! This man failed American civics in high school. Our Founding Fathers would have a different opinion.
Bishop McElroy states, “[Jesus, Mary, and Joseph] were undocumented immigrants when they arrived in Egypt.” How does he know this? Are there any historians who actually know the immigration laws [if any] of ancient Egypt.
Hopefully Bishop McElroy is better in spirituality. Because he fails in history.
None of the founding fathers were of the nations indigenous to American. They were descendants of Europeans.
Anon,
Your observations are noted but are also quite irrelevant. As a nation, we are, first and foremost, a people who are free and who are endowed with certain unalienable rights. This is why our nation came into being and this concept is important to our national identity and purpose. What does being indigenous or European have to do with this?
Sorry, the the slaves who were dragged here to the colonies were not “free”. That took some time and a lot of anguish and bloodshed to deliver on that particular promise. Black souls were expressley not entitled to their unalienable rights until almost a century later.That is what being “indigenous or European” has to do with things..
As to “intdgenous”, actually the Native nations were offerred certain rights of nationhood in the Constitution of 1783. Do any of you remember what the Constitution guarantees to those nations? I seriously doubt you do.
So YFC should we do what the Left has always dreamed of??? dissolve the nation rip it apart so you can have your conscience soothed, since the Left detests this country with such vigor.
YFC,
Okay, thank you for the enlightenment. Of course, it goes without saying that if our founders were hypocritical, this certainly doesn’t negate the fact that they felt that we were, first and foremost, a people of freedom and not of the tyrant. And, dovetailing with this, your statement regarding the Articles of Confederation supports my argument by suggesting that the Founders were less hypocritical than you alleged.
FIrst of all, I didn’t say a word about the Articles of Confederation.
But let’s go back to your original contention and what anon said. You objected to the Bishop’s contention that we are a nation of immigrants, citing our founding fathers, and Anon pointed out that all of them were descendants of recent immigration from Europe, a fact you dismissed as irrelevant. Except that these freedom loving founding fathers only loved freedom for their generation of immigrants, not for the indian nations or for the victims of forced immigration we call slaves. So it has EVERYTHING to do with it.
YFC,
Your argument is wrong and here’s why. Regardless of hypocrisy, how a person [or a nation] views itself is its identify regardless of behavior. So, for sake of argument, let’s say that you consider yourself to be a Catholic. This is your identify, first and foremost. But let’s say, for sake of argument, that you reject Catholic moral teaching, don’t attend Mass on Sunday, and anything else that is binding under Canon Law. Does this mean that you no longer view yourself as a Catholic or does it simply mean that you are hypocritical about your Catholic identity?
YFC,
I apologize for the misquote on the Articles of Confederation. I thought you were referring to them because I don’t know of the U.S. Constitution giving the Indians rights to nationhood. Could you please cite the article in the Constitution to which you were referring?
Regarding the soverignty of Native Americans a la the Constitution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_sovereignty_in_the_United_States
You really want to talk about freedom and inalienable rights comparing indigenous to European?
Anon,
Regardless of any duplicity or hypocrisy, our Founding Fathers viewed our country as being principally bound to freedom. If they were duplicitous due to any philosophical reasons, that does not affect the way how they viewed the founding of the country.
So how does being a nation of immigrants (many who came here looking for freedom) conflict with that?
Anon,
It doesn’t. So why did you disagree with me to begin with? Was it just so that you could charge our nation’s founding fathers with duplicity or hypocrisy?
No, your post made no sense.
Anon,
It looks like you’re not making the connections, so I’ll try to make it simple for you.
You can’t be, first and foremost, a nation bound to freedom and, first and foremost, a nation of immigrants. As our Founders would agree, we are a nation of immigrants but we are, first and foremost, a nation bound to freedom.
Corollary: We are not a nation, first and foremost, of immigrants.
Are we now happy? :)
Steve realize YFC and his ilk detest the very founding of this nation., they blame it for ALL of the Worlds problems. I honestly believe that until the Left is brought to its needs they will continue to do their best to destroy the country and remake into a Marxist state….
Canisius,
In observing the political landscape over the past year, I’ve had parallel thoughts. The only thing that I can think of to explain the argumentation of some on the left is that they have unconscious self-loathing which they project onto society (i.e. their nation). As such, they’re compulsed to dwell on the negative with an obsessive-compulsive lock.
How else can you explain people who have difficulty making simple connections who otherwise appear to have intact cognition?
OK guys – ganging up on people and insulting them in public for reasons that you have made up is decidedly un-Christian.
I love this country. I made a secular pilgrimage to Independence Hall, much like the Pope did, about 2 years ago, to reflect upon the values that our founding fathers inculcated in us. Of course, I didn’t get to give a speech to tens of thousands. If I had tried, I’m pretty sure the Park Service would have removed me or had me arrested :) I also visited – TWICE in the last 5 years- the National Archives to view the founding documents.
Why you feel you need to take personal swipes at people is beyond me.
YFC,
Thank you for the Constitution reference (above): I’ll have time to look at it tomorrow.
Regarding my idea: Truth be known, I was speaking about some people on the left, in general, and about Anon. I didn’t have you specifically in mind. However, since my post was next to Canisius’s, your assumption was logical.
Nevertheless, I’ve once or twice in the past month had a discussion with you where I had to intellectually connect the dots in a way that shouldn’t have been necessary. My statement about psychological projection is actually part of a larger theory about why some people are conservative and others are liberal. Since you’ve discounted my idea, do you have any insight that you can provide on this issue?
Because you are being allowed a freedom that they don’t want you to have or you are doing something with your freedom that they do not want you to do.
Steve, maybe you should look at labeling theory.
Anon,
Have you ever considered taking a course in logic and semantics?
Steve – I think there is a lot of self loathing. But not among liberals, who by and large want a society that is more compassionate for OTHERS than people on the right.
Where I find self loathing is often on the right. Not all, of course, but I just offer you the example of Ken Mehlman, George Bush’s campaign manager and former chair of the RNC. While he was a closeted gay man, he LEAD the effort to put anti-gay ballot initiatives on the ballot all across the country in 2004 to help get his buddy re-elected. And it worked. It was the election of guns-god-gays. Now he has to go around apologizing for knowingly throwing his own people under the bus. THAT is self-loathing, my friend.
Pretty sure I had logic but it was so long ago I can’t be sure. Please give me the cliff notes on what it is I should learn from these classes.
Semantics has often been an issue on this website. Those things can be ironed out fairly quickly.
I wasn’t sure if it was a snide comment because you felt offended by my post on labeling theory. It was a sincere response to your investigation on why some people are liberal and some conservative. More people are neither.
YFC,
I’ve been short on time this evening. I’ll be able to get to your message tomorrow.
Anon,
I did take your comment as snide and, as such, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I appreciate the reference and I’ll look into it. I have not yet heard a good theory on the subject and my own ideas are incomplete and, at best, tentative.
YFC,
When I refer to projected self-loathing, I’m offering a partial theory about people who advocate for things against their own self-interest and which do not affect a corresponding truth or justice. In other words, people who advocate for self-defeating policies. For example, a black man who is conservative because of unconscious self-loathing is called an “Uncle Tom.” A black man who is conservative for justice, truth, and the good of humanity most certainly doesn’t have this problem. Obama’s prisoner swap of 4 high level Taliban prisoners for an American deserter is classic.
[1 of 2 – Continued]
Regarding your statement, I disagree that liberals are more compassionate than conservatives. It’s true that liberals vocalize compassion more than conservatives. But I’m not sure that they’re actually more compassionate and I disagree that their policies are more compassionate.
I’m not familiar with Ken Mehlman. But, just as there are people on the left who have unconscious, projected self-hatred, this dynamic can also be found on the right. Therefore, I’m unable to comment about this man.
[2 of 2 – End]
The Holy Family were simply moving from one Roman province to another when they fled to Egypt. They were hardly illegal aliens.
Steve Seitz is correct. The bible in regards to our Mama Mary and St Joseph, does not state immigration laws back then. We cant compare America, USA to those times either.
I think the point is that you are supposed to treat everybody the way that you would treat the Holy Family.
With over a million (I heard 90 million) Americans out of work, how can we afford to get more immigrants here when we cannot take care of our own citizens. Our economy is in shambles, our faith is dying, there is hardly any morality left, and we want to compound the problems more by increasing immigration. Wait until Obama gets his Moslem buddies here that he promised would happen this year and the next. Shirea law will be imposed on all us infidels.
That’s pretty much the program in a nutshell, Herman. Not a minute goes by that someone is not whining about our history of slavery and rottenness to indigenous people…not another country is so evil and terrible! And as the Lilliputians continue to pierce and wound Gulliver, and bind him up so he can’t move, his life’s blood will soon be all drained and he’ll be silenced forever snd the Lilliputians can go back to their war as to whether to cut the egg in the middle or on the end. Oh, apropos of nothing, the word for a black person in Arabic is slave. And many wealthy Muslims buy and sell slaves…especially white ones.
Back in the 1850’s people worried that my Irish ancestors would impose CANON law on them.
….well, C&H, you didn’t have conclaves of Catholics seeking to formally establish canon law courts to compete with the government. We do, however, have Sharia law proponents seeking to establish Sharia law courts in the United States and promoting Sharia homeschool groups.
Even so, canon law doesn’t call for the death of the infidel. So there’s a little more on the table with regard to ignoring the absolute disconnect between Sharia law and life in the United States.
Bishop McElroy’s predecessor’s name was Cirillo Flores. I thought the practice in the Roman Church was still to refer to the heirarchy with their surnames, not their given names.
As Franklin Roosevelt, he of great esteem to many readers of this blog, frequently said “My fellow immigrants . . . “
My relatives came here legally. I expect ALL immigrants to come here legally.
.
ILLEGAL immigration is breaking the law, and pushing yourself ahead of others who are waiting in line.
The CCC # 2241 says IMMIGRANTS must Obey the Law.
Why do Bishops encourage ILLEGAL immigration? And hold back legal immigrants from learning English by providing them with a crutch ?
The Egyptians would never have let a Jewish person into their country unless they followed their immigration laws — that is a given; they were pagans back then and had animosity toward the Jews. Perhaps, though, the Lord performed some kind of miracle to change their minds, but there is no evidence of that. So whatever ones stand on immigration, saying the Holy Family were illegal immigrants is not being very truthful.
The HOLY FAMILY were NOT UNDOCUMENTED / ILLEGAL Immigrants.
They Never broke any existing laws.
And it is a sin to imply that they did.
Bishops who lie to support their own political desires are committing a sin.
Everywhere the HOLY FAMILY went was always within the Roman Empire.
(Similar from going from state to state within the USA.)
Btw “undocumented” is the new political buzz word for ILLEGAL. I will not use it.
Connie, after looking it up on line, you seem to be correct that Egypt was part of the Roman Empire back then. I should have remembered that from the Mark Anthony and Cleopatra affair and the dear, sweet asp that sent her to her eternal reward. Ha! Ha!
STEVE SEITZ COMPLAINS THAT Bishop McElroy states, “We are a nation of immigrants. First and foremost. That is our identity,”. Shocking! This man failed American civics in high school. Our Founding Fathers would have a different opinion.
WELL, HELLO, STEVE!
With a last name like Seitz, you don’t sound exactly like a Navajo or Apache.
Of course we’re a nation of immigrants.
Anony, your post proves nothing but your ignorance. California Indians were given Spanish sir names. How do you know that Steve Seitz is not a California Indian? That being said, I too doubt that a man with 100% Navajo or Apache blood would have a Spanish sir name because neither of those tribes were in California during the time of the Spanish conquest.
Anon,
Of course we’re a nation of immigrants (duh). But Bishop McElroy didn’t stop with the obvious. He went on to say that a) this is what we are, first and foremost and b) this is our national identity. It is these two latter comments which are false and which have the potential to damage our national character because they deemphasis our true national identity.
So, Steve, what IS our true national identity? From the revolutionary war era onwards, our national character was captured in the Latin phrase “E pluribus unum”. From the many, one. If “the many” is not a reference to our immigrant history, what is it? What phrase do you want to replace it with to capture your idea about our national identity and what we are first and foremost? “We’re here now, and you have to stay put” ?
YFC,
I would argue that our national identify is one of freedom and fundamental human rights. Freedom is why our Founders fought the Revolutionary War, freedom is the central focus of the Declaration of Independence, and preserving freedom was the central focus of the Constitution. We were probably the first country since Ancient Greece that instituted a fully elected government, and it’s the concept of the constitutional democracy which has been our gift to modern civilization. Our Bill of Rights is arguably the most protective in the world.
[1 of 2 — Continued]
In comparison, I would say that E pluribus Unum is important but not as foundational or important as being a nation of freedom.
If you’re looking for a succinct term that captures the concept, it would be American Exceptionalism. However, I personally don’t prefer this term because it’s become too politicized in recent years.
[2 of 2 — End]
Oh these Novus Ordo bishops just will not stop, is he going to pay for all of these people? And please stop comparing these illegal and law breaking invaders to my grandparents who came from Europe LEGALLY AND LEARNED THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE AND ASSIMILATED INTO AMERICAN SOCIETY.
There is no such thing as a Novus Ordo bishop.
We are a nation with necessary borders. The church, however, has no borders. 23 years of my priesthood were ministry to immigrants, most without permission to be here, mostly in Spanish. Everyone was granted sacraments, word, catechesis, mercy in their own language, participation in the parish community for as long as they remained in the parish. This will continue in our Catholic Church regardless of the necessary and justifiable national borders that may be transgressed. A nation may not be able to welcome everyone, but the Catholic Church can and will, as James Joyce once said about her, “Here comes everybody.”
“…necessary and justifiable national borders.”
Thank you for saying this.
A nation must have control of who enters her borders. The US has been the most generous of nations to receive immigrants. Despite her outward appearance of wealth and of some who are very wealthy, she is $19,000,000,000,000.00 in debt, and must reduce it to provide a real growth economy and not a redistributionist one in order to sustain her poorer citizens before opening to all who come without permission. Our Holy Father might encourage the nations whose citizens are leaving to create a climate and environment of hope and pride, where they wish to stay where God has planted them and build for themselves a life in their native land.
“…Our Holy Father might encourage the nations whose citizens are leaving to create a climate and environment of hope and pride, where they wish to stay where God has planted them and build for themselves a life in their native land….”
This is another something that MUST be said, Father. Thank you.
While some decry the United States as nativist, there is, in truth, a hubris beyond imagining in purporting oneself to be a limitless, Daddy Warbucks, ignoring the reality that nations and people are of equal dignity. And to let other nations fall to rot, almost by way of collusion, is not Christian. But rather a perversion thereof. Much like the perversion of charity that would have Catholics put blinders on to the plight of…
…their own financial situation just because they want to be seen as charitable.
Ann, I meant to add, I’d like to find bumper stickers that say things like: PCphobe or Nativist Immigrant or Antipathy to liberalism. I meant to use liberalism earlier, not liberals or they’ll think I’m saying they’re ugly, argh. At least liberals fight like heck for what they believe in… Unfortunately they fight dirty :(
….they absolutely fight dirty. Love the idea for your bumper stickers. Considering what’s going on in the country, I say you should go for marketing them. You’d make a bundle. (Folks in fly-over country are about ready to pop and despite their being quiet for the most part, I see pitchforks and spades getting polished real soon.)
As to whether folks “think” you are disparaging them, take it as a penance. You know you weren’t disparaging them. And they do too – wink, wink. So being calumniated on CCD is a perfect arena to say what needs saying and then take the hit for Jesus.
https://www.onepeterfive.com/?powerpress_pinw=8106-podcast
PS I hope those who haven’t listened to this podcast will do so!! This whole papacy leaves me utterly speechless.
…for many this podcast on OnePeterFive is just the 105 degree fever that was anticipated after years of seeing wounds grow red and gangrenous beneath dirty bandages.
God is very good and exceedingly patient. He protects His own. And while the winnowing will be painful, it is and always has been predicted in Scripture. No worries. Think St. Theresa of Avila and how she’d respond to the outright venom and obstacles. These are good signs, just not what many expect.
So you are taking guidance from a “Catholic” who says “I’m really angry (That’s a sin, you know) and “What the H*** is wrong with everybody?” Gee what virtue!
Can you imagine Bishop Sheen or the Pope (ANY Pope) starting an address like that?
Whoever this guy is, he is in no spiritual state to be addressing Catholics as some kind of preserver of Traditional Catholicism. You need to live it first.
Father Perozich, thank you for being there and for welcoming everyone, just like Pope Francis and Jesus.
Father Perozich, I had read your post earlier, I was so taken with it I came back to read it again. You really captured beautifully the relationship between the obligations of the Church vs the obligations of the state. I really thought it was wonderful.
So I just wonder what your thought are about whether Catholics have some obligation to change that state policy – or not?
If the State has a duty and a right to regulate borders, YFC, then there is no obligation of Catholics to attempt to usurp that lawful exercise.
Apparently, you didn’t read my question to the Father, Ann Malley. By definition, If Catholics are lobbying to change law, they are not usurping the law. THey are engaging in the Democratic process. Even if our borders were not porous, we set limits every year – different for every country on earth – on how many may enter legally for work. Those numbers of legal immigrants allowed in have fluctuated up and down for just about ever. Those numbers are arbitrary. Do Catholics have an obligation to influence those numbers and if so, how?
Sorry that was me at 12:58 PM
…I knew that was you, Anonymous/YFC. As to Catholics petitioning to change the law regarding the sovereignty of nations – that is misguided. Like petitioning to change the 4th commandment.
And what the United States is dealing with is overwhelming debt, something Catholics should actively petition to whittle down and address first as it is a matter of justice. With countless numbers of US Citizens unemployed, bringing in more “workers” is absurd.
That is why Catholics being misguided to change reasonable laws is not Catholic. It is manipulation. Would that Catholics would focus on charity beginning at home and cease and desist supporting the wholesale murder of their fellow citizens before seeking to open the borders to…
Anonymous, every country needs to have both educated, more prosperous immigrants along with the poor, or the country ends up a mess with no one to teach new innovations, etc. There needs to be a balance with immigrants coming in slowly enough for the country to handle all the problems that arise.
And I was so inspired by your answer that I went to your parish website and found this amazing video about your Nightfever ministry. It would be great to see CCD do a piece on it!
Night Fever is awesome! We’ve had it at the Cathedral of the Blessed Sacramento in Sacramento several times with excellent results. Typically, it happens during the art walk on “Second Saturday” which gets a lot of nightclub foot traffic by the Cathedral. Some have expressed interest in becoming Catholic because of it while, for others, seeds are planted that might bear fruit later on.
Correction: I made a small typo (above). I meant to say “Cathedral of the Blessed Sacrament in Sacramento.” :)
Nowhere is it written or taught that Catholics were to take over a nation and impose canon law upon everyone. However, it is a well documented fact that the Moslems will impose their law when the majority of the people are Moslem. Fact is stranger than fiction, but to the lefties, all is fiction, because they hear and believe only what they want to.
Laws prohibiting same sex marriage, contraception & abortion are all examples of Catholics trying to impose their religious ideas of law on the country.
YFC,
Herman referred to Canon Law: not Catholic moral teaching. Canon Law is the law of the Church and is only binding on Catholics. Canon Law and Catholic moral teaching are two completely different animals.
Actually YFC your statement proves that you are not Catholic and never will be….Time to decide YFC the State or Christ and His Cross….
“Hopefully Bishop McElroy is better in spirituality. Because he fails in history.”
STEVE SEITZ – ah, yes, that poor dumb bishop.
How in the WORLD did he ever get two doctorates, from Harvard and from Stanford, being so stupid compared to you?
Anonymous, is there some sort of infallible teaching which states that holding two doctorates from Harvard and from Stanford makes one infallible in matters of history?
“Dumb” defined in the above context would be – “Showing a lack of intelligence”. Even otherwise intelligent people can do this from time to time.
The HOLY Family never broke immigration laws.
The Holy Family stayed within the Roman Empire at all times whenever they travelled.
That is like going from State to State within the USA, or like going from Province to Province within Canada.
Yes, Bishop McElroy did NOT get history correct. When speaking in public, Bishops should strive for accuracy. Rewriting history is not in his job description.
Anon,
I don’t know how smart or stupid he is. My comments were restricted to his awareness of history which appears to be inferior. If he starts to make smarter comments on Americans civics and history, I’ll gladly revise my statement.
Regarding PhDs from Harvard and Stanford, these universities have the pristine names but their academic achievements are quite spotty. Have you ever read Allan Bloom’s “The Closing of the American Mind?”
Thank you Steve Seitz.
“We are not a nation of immigrants, we are a nation of citizens” – Mark Levin.
When St. Joseph and Mary settled in Egypt with the baby Jesus, Holy Scripture does not tell us who they spoke to or where exactly they settled. We do have precedence, however, in the Old Testament. When the brothers of Joseph went to Egypt to escape famine, they sought permission of the Pharaoh to be there.
It would be unlikely that when St. Joseph settled the Holy Family in Egypt, that he did so in violation of the laws of that land at that time. Equating current illegal occupation in America with the “flight into Egypt” is intellectually dishonest.
Thank you, Tracy!
Time to stop emotionally manipulating Catholics to work against their neighbors right here at home.
Make sure your food was not planted, cultivated, harvested, delivered or displayed by an undocumented worker before you eat it.
Another silly, wrong-headed argument is when the Rev. Jesse Jackson and some others said that the Virgin Mary was an unwedded mother when she had the Lord Jesus, when the first chapter of Matthew clearly states that St. Joseph was considering divorcing her when he found out she was pregnant with the Lord Jesus, until God told him the truth in the dream.
A betrothal was the same thing as a marriage back then. All the man had to do to complete the marriage was to take his wife into his home, which Joseph had not yet done. So the Virgin Mary was not an “unwed mother”. Gheesh! how people love to twist the Bible to make themselves and/or others to look better.
She was found to be with child…She had no relations with a man. Under mosaic law, if a man deflowered his wife before the wedding, divorce was not permitted. He decided to divorce her quietly because he did not want to expose her to public disgrace.
We are a nation of immigrants AND native Americans, plus captured slaves brought here fully against their will. My ancestors, and perhaps yours, moved onto land previously occupied by others, and their descendants took over “ownership” the land previously seen as a given, not something that needed to be “owned.” Defense of borders leads to one eventuality, and its invasion leads to yet another.
I can see why you accuse Bishop McElroy of being so uneducated: “He earned a A.B. in history from Harvard University in 1975 and an M.A. from Stanford in 1976. He then attended St. Patrick’s Seminary in Menlo Park, California, where he earned an STL degree in 1985 from the Jesuit School of Theology in the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, California, with a thesis entitled, Freedom for Faith: John Courtney Murray and the Constitutional Question, 1942-1954. McElroy was ordained to the priesthood for the San Francisco Archdiocese on April 12, 1980. … In 1986 he was awarded a doctorate in moral theology from the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome, with a dissertation entitled, John Courtney Murray and the Secular Crisis:…
Anon,
Did someone say that Bishop McElroy is uneducated? Or did you post those statements merely to practice writing the English language.
Some people with Phds have no common sense. That is why Phd also stands for “Piled Higher and Deeper”.
Oh my gosh, JOSE. Love that – piled higher and deeper. Excellent and sadly, in many cases of my own acquaintance, true ;^)
…there’s educated and then there’s indoctrinated, Anonymous ;^)
Bishops, Priests, and the rest of us MUST differentiate between LEGAL immigration,
and those who disrespect our Laws and Country through ILLEGAL immigration.
Obeying the existing immigration laws at the time of immigration in history –
is Doctrine of the Faith – CCC # 2241.
The USA allows ONE MILLION – LEGAL immigrants into the USA each year.
And 5 MILLION more good people are waiting their turn.
The USCCB and other BISHOPS support ILLEGAL immigration only for the MONEY.
See “Catholic Church collects $1.6 billion in U.S. contracts, grants since 2012”.
https://cal-catholic.com/?p=20683
Money is also why they support EVIL politicians whose agenda’s are INTRINSICALLY evil.
Jose, your posts are sometimes ignorant and anti-Catholic, and are often repetitive. Are you actually a Catholic? I’m against illegal immigration into our nation as well, but I don’t claim that the Catholic hierarchy are overly compassionate towards, and overly supportive of, illegal immigrants for monetary reasons. Where do you get your “information” about the motivations of Catholic clergy? Through supposition, or through unwarranted suspicion of Catholics in general and our Catholic clergy in particular? How do you dare to publish such statements about people you don’t know and subjects with which you are not familiar?
Maryanne Leonard, just follow the money.
Why else would some Bishops (like Cupich and others) support pro-abortion, pro-homosexual marriage, anti-freedom of religion Democrats ? I will await your answer.
And how do you know what Jose knows and does not know ? – Perhaps you should only speak for yourself.
I’m confident that Jose does not know, and I quote, “the members of the USCCB and other BISHOPS,” nor that “they support “ILLEGAL immigration only for the MONEY.” (Caps are Jose’s.)
Do you actually believe he not only knows the members of the USCCB, let alone “other BISHOPS,” as he says? I’m sorry, but I can’t help laughing at the ignorance of this statement alone, nor can I imagine how he would have discerned the hidden motivations of the bishops he does not even know.
In answer to your question, common sense tells me that he knows neither the bishops nor their motivation.
“…Are you actually a Catholic? I’m against illegal immigration into our nation as well, but I don’t claim that the Catholic hierarchy are overly compassionate towards, and overly supportive of, illegal immigrants for monetary reasons. Where do you get your “information” about the motivations of Catholic clergy?”
MaryAnn, with all due respect, are you Catholic? You may want to look at your own “tone” here and cease promoting the ridiculous notion that Catholics are required to not use logic and reason. Your attempt to cow anyone who speaks clearly and often is repetitive.
How do you dare to preach to others about their tone when your own is promoting ignorance as the requisite of Catholic fidelity. We are rightfully cautioned…
to be wary of those preaching a different gospel. We are taught to look to the fruits and actions of folks, even leaders, not go along.
If you don’t want to see, then don’t. But your bullying others with nonsense talk is just that – nonsense.
Ann Malley, yes, I am quite Catholic, educated by wonderful nuns who taught me to love God and truth, and to reason for myself. I tend to reject, challenge or denounce patently absurd slurs against others, including our Catholic clergy. I don’t believe Jose knows personally these bishops, nor their motivation. I reject Jose’s impugning monetary motivations to the bishops. Discerning one man’s motivation, let alone a group’s, is a tricky business, greatly subject to error, and generally best left to God. False accusations against our bishops deserve our collective condemnation.
While Bishops are supporting ILLEGAL immigration and Open Borders –
a “Record 94,610,000 Americans Not in Labor Force” – US Bureau of Labor Statistics –
“The number of Americans not in the labor force exceeded 94 million for the second time in a row last month hitting a new record high, according to new government data released Friday morning.”
https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/02/record-94610000-americans-not-labor-force/
Many of those 94 million choose not to be in the labor force. As he hastened to point out during the campaign, Mitt Romney is one of them. Do you really think Mitt Romney and undocumented immigrants are competing for the same jobs?