The following comes from a July 6 Aleteia article by Father Henry Vargas Holguín:
The practice of holding hands while praying the Our Father comes from the Protestant world. The reason is that Protestants do not have the Real Presence of Christ; that is to say, they do not have real and valid sacramental Communion that joins them among themselves and with God. Therefore, they turn to the gesture of holding hands as a moment of communion in community prayer.
During the Mass, we have two important moments: the Consecration and Communion. There – during the Mass – is where we find our unity; that is where we join ourselves to Christ and in Christ, through the common priesthood of the faithful. Holding hands is obviously a distraction from that. We as Catholics are united by receiving Holy Communion, not by holding hands.
There is nothing in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal that indicates that we should hold hands. During the Mass, every gesture is regulated by the Church and its rubrics.
Therefore, we should avoid this practice during the celebration of Mass. Now, if someone wants to do it, let them do it (as an exception) with someone they know very well, without forcing anyone to do it, without making anyone uncomfortable and without trying to convert this practice into a liturgical norm for everyone.
We have to remember that not everyone wants to hold the hand of the person next to them, and trying to impose it on them creates a moment of discomfort to the detriment of prayer, piety and recollection.
This, like other attitudes, is nothing but an exaltation of feelings. Being in communion with someone doesn’t depend so much on holding their hand when praying the Our Father, as on having gone to Confession, being in a state of grace, and, above all, being prepared for the Eucharist.
On a more mundane scale – particularly during cold & flu season, holding and shaking hands as a Sign of Peace is also a good way to spread all sorts of things – just before placing the Consecrated Host in your mouth.
I regularly clasp my hands behind my back and Truly Wish Parishioners Peace – but think that we need to make more practical medical considerations part of the process
Likewise with covering the Bread Before Consecration – like using a simple cake cover in the back while it sits out, can keep sneezers and such from spreading more than just the Joy of Christ.
Most people practice good hygiene – but not all, and the few should not impact the many, particularly during a Season of both sniffles and of Joy.
“The practice of holding hands while praying the Our Father comes from the Protestant world.” Utterly false. Go to any Lutheran or Episcopal service and you’ll find that they do NOT hold hands during the Our Father. (Many other denominations don’t even pray the Our Father during their services, so it’s a moot point elsewhere.)
This is a post Vatican II CATHOLIC invention. Obfuscation won’t make that fact go away.
Lutherans and Episcopalians are not the only Protestants. There are thousands of Protestant denominations, in some of which holding hands, as the author says, is customary during the Lord’s Prayer, as they call it. It is certainly true that it was not adopted as a Catholic practice—until after Vatican II. And then, not officially; only by what some of us regard as Protestantizers. The GIRM doesn’t specify what the Faithful should do with our hands during the Our Father, so we are free to do as we like. Too many people (in my opinion) adopt the Orantes posture, in imitation of the Priest at that moment. Since at no point do the rubrics ever prescribe that posture for the laity, it would seem not to be appropriate at any point. But…
Name one. Lutherans and Episcopalians are the only one who prayer the Our Father with any regularity.
Thousands of denominations, wow, that seems like a major rise. There is so much confusion within Protestanism as to who actually can use the title, Mormons, no, Jehovah witnesses, no, several dozen heretical sects, no, so to think of Protestans Lutherans and Episcopalians fit a truer description, bearing in mind that the seed of the Episcapol church in England often refers to themselves as Anglo Catholic, or CoE etc.
OK, then, accepting your contention for sake of argument (I do not agree), is it your position that the practice should be discontinued along with a bunch of other post Vatican 2 nonsense? (Maybe the whole Novus Ordo which facilitates this nonsense should be phased out?) Or, are you Lutheran or Episcopalian and defending your own church from association with nonsense? Give us some context so we can take away from some practical advice from your position on this.
Your are lost in the semantics, it IS from the Protestant, i.e., non Catholic Christian, world, the hand holding is very much a part of some Evangelical and/ or pentacostal churches, and I can tell you it is very prevalent in black churches, so throw in Babtist circles as well as the aforementioned.. You may not see it, necessarily, in Sunday service but at prayer meetings, prayers over food, etc. Black Catholics and Catholic charismatics probably adapted it first, but from the ecumenism that charismatics and others not so tied to Catholic ‘tradition.’
Foolish practices. Stick to basics. I put up with the ‘sign of peace’ to a degree, but holding hands is just too much. Is this kindergarten? And if I hear any sniffles. coughing or sneezing, forget the ‘sign of peace’ handshake, I’ll just nod. It’s bad hygiene people! How many of us in the pews have to become ill? What about the elderly? For the same reason, the precious blood should be banned. One of these days, something super contagious will be shared by these methods of contagion. And the diseases are out there folks. But will anybody have the courage to stop the insanity?
http://FTP…When I meet with new clients I shake their hand. There is a super small chance I’ll catch something but it’s so unlikely that it’s not worth it to be rude. Why should I treat those on my left or right, or my own family any different. As for “One of these days, something super contagious will be shared by these methods of contagion.” We’ve been receiving the Blood of Christ for decades now and I can’t remember any stories outbreaks in a parish. Yes, if you or someone next to you is sick just nod. Otherwise…..
C&H, I took the Precious Blood for awhile, and I got colds all the time. When I noticed that young students at my church were coughing and sneezing and not covering their noses and mouth, I started receiving just the Host. I have only had one full blown cold and no flu symptoms for too many years to remember. When I feel a cold coming on or am exposed to the flu, etc. I take some type of zinc, usually Zicam tablets, and it goes away. Many priests have said that when they stopped receiving under both species when communicants at other churches, they got less ill also. It depends on the person’s immune system. We can be too clean, though, so we are not immune to the common germ, but drinking out of someone else’s cup is not a wise thing to…
Continued:: to do
Also, I believe the reason I got that one cold is that I ran out of Zicam and took it too late.
Anne T,
Years ago, I was always ill (colds, flu, sinus infections) when doing sacristan work. Which included the first cleansing (drinking) the remains of the entire churches precious blood. This is done before the washing of chalices. Never occurred to me back then until my bad knee acted up & I decided to take a break. After some time, 3-6 (?) months, I noticed i was never sick. Sadly, had to give up drinking the precious blood. True story.
I believe you. I think it was in the Homiletic and Pastoral Review that I read many years ago an article by a priest who said he experienced the same thing we did, and so did some others. Some health authorities say the chances are low of catching anything, but if ones immune system is down that evidently does not apply, and we get sick.
Receiving in the hand is another modernistic practice that seems totally unnecessary and seems an invite to having. as has happened a non-believer take the host and use it for nefarious reasons, this has occured and the parish did recover the host from that group.
I take the Host on the tongue all the time unless I am at the newer Mass and the bishop has specially asked us not to do so. Nevertheless, I still take it on the tongue during the winter at the Latin Mass as the bishop does not request taking it in the hand for the traditional Latin Mass. As I said in my other posts, I have gotten only one cold and no flu over at least ten years. If one must take it in the hand, one should use hand sanitizer or avoid shaking hands – bow, wave or nod at the Sign of Peace.
I saw a nun take off like a bolt of lighting after a young man who kept the Host in his hand. She told him, “You eat that!” I thought, “Good for her.”
Jesus said “take and eat”. Not just “eat”. Was Jesus a modernist?
Those to whom the Lord was speaking were the Apostles whom he had already ordained on Holy Thursday — ordained priests, not laity.
Anne, my post was not in response to your comments, with which I sympathize. They were intended for Charles Hampton who accused people who prefer reception in the hand of being modernists. You didn’t make that accusation, and you gave perfectly good reasons for receiving on the tongue, which is always acceptable, whether at a TLM or a new mass. I’m sorry if the odd ways the this website interweave comments can be confusing at times.
Go to Adoremus Bulletin. I am not going to get caught up in your arguments.
I guess YFC’s question was for Charles Hampton, Perhaps I took it too personally. Anyway the Lord in that verse was not talking to the laity, so it has nothing to do with the approval of the laity receiving in the hand.
Anne, I was answering Mr. Hampton. But by your logic, the Precious Body is also not for the laity to consume either. Besides the words of institution in the Roman Rite, we have St Paul’s words to the laity in Corinth:
“For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,
and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, ‘This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.’
In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.’
For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes…
My apologies, YFC. I did not look carefully at the line up of the messages. Although I prefer receiving on the tongue, I do at times receive reverently from the hand — bowing first before receiving, holding the hands like a thrown and bowing before the Sacred Chalice (Precious Blood) when I pass by since I do not receive it. I have received by intinction in those Catholic rites that use it and prefer to receive under both species that way..
Thanks Anne T, for the apology, but really no need.
Discussions about the taking of the Precious Blood from a common chalice as a disease carrier have been around since distributing communion in both species has become common.. We aren’t talking about grape juice. We aren’t talking about wine here — not even wine over which some denomination or another has pronounced some prayer or conducted a liturgical ritual to legitimize offering it to the parishioners as being representative of Our Lord’s blood. We BELIEVE in our minds, hearts, and souls that the liquid in the chalice IS Christ’s blood. And I find it impossible to even consider that Our Lord’s blood is contaminated by germs.
Just visited a daughter and very new granddaughter in Richmond (VA, not CA); once described, justly, as the “black hole of Catholic orthodoxy.” They hold hands there, and you get a look of reproach if you do not (we do not). Hand-holding is Protestant, with no basis in anything, except the Zombie-Liberal, “let’s make women at least deacons” school of theology.
People: refuse to do this, and challenge the priest after Mass (as our Priest was recently challenged for removing kneelers in the Church). Stop the madness — more importantly, stop the money!! Give to Traditional orders and to those churches whose pastors deserve it. Please do give — e.g., the Benedictines of Mary, Queen of Apostles are building a new church — but…
No, I don’t want to hold your hand while I pray. I am not a Protestant and am not interested in adapting their prayer postures. It’s not personal, pew-mate, so don’t take it as a slight if I just close my eyes and ignore the touchy feely circus.
Good luck with that one, my priest directs the faithful to reach out and hold hands with perfect strangers. One offends perfectly good people by denying to hold hands in my parish. This is one of my pet peeves about the Novus Ordo. So we go mostly to the Vetus Ordo. When in a densely attended mass, for example on Christmas, there is no escape and one has to hold hands with strangers. I give them that concession but the day they have only women ministers giving communion I quit. We still are able to receive communion on the tongue from a priest but without kneeling, for that would really offend out liberal local Parish.
A priest did that to my local parish, and many of us left for churches that kept to the rubrics. I fold my hands at the Lord’s Prayer and concentrate on praying instead of creating disorder grabbing for someone’s hand. I then enjoy people’s company OURSIDE the sanctuary, in the hall or parking lot or at other functions. My first parish no longer forces people to hold hands. They leave it up to the individuals — mainly families or close friends.
Correction: “outside” the sanctuary.
All seriousness aside, here I thought it had all started from the Beatles hit song: “I want to hold your Hand”. Hey it can’t be that far-fetched from the truth. I remember back in the 1970s strumming at guitar masses on my college campus Newman Center “Let it Be” as the words spoke of mother Mary which probably originally written had nothing to do with the Mother of God. Considering how extreme left college campuses have become pushing for socialism and wanting the 1st Amendment ended for conservatives, those students if any that go to Newman Center(s) are probably singing John Lenon’s/Beatle “Imagine” which is tan atheist and communist dream.
George, I read that the Beatle who wrote that song — I think Paul Mc Carty — wrote it for his mother whose name was Mary. That is the only Beatle song I have really liked. My husband and I danced to their music years ago, but I never bought any of their records, especially after they said they were more popular than Jesus. John Lennon took after his namesake — the Soviet Lenin — as far as I am concerned.
Protestant, just like the “thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory” that Bugnini & Co. inserted into the Mass. Before Vat2, no Catholic would be caught dead adding that Protestant postscript to the Lord’s Prayer.
In the early Church, the Christians living in the eastern half of the Roman Empire added the doxology “for thine…” to the Gospel text of the Our Father when reciting the prayer at Mass. Evidence of this practice is also found in the “Didache” “” “””””(Teaching of the Twelve Apostles), a first century manual of morals, worship and doctrine of the Church. Also, when copying the Scriptures, Greek scribes sometimes appended the doxology onto the original Gospel text of the Our Father, however, most texts today would omit this inclusion, relegate it to a footnote, or note that it was a later addition to the Gospel. Official “Catholic” Bibles including the Vulgate, the Douay-Rheims, the Confraternity Edition, and the New…
I do not say the doxology aloud, though I do say it in my head. When I was a child, when the Mass was in Latin and the doxology was not used, my mom and the Lutheren pastor’s wife got into a disagreement about using it for a skit in Girl Scouts. We ended up not using it because of the number of Catholic girls in the troop. (It was a skit for Thanksgiving that opened with Pilgrims (us) praying. We substituted “Amen” instead.)
I thought this might be a bit of personal “rebellion” but I heard (or rather didn’t hear) someone behind me at a Novus Ordo Mass also not say it. I have not asked him his reason but I can surmise because this person often attends the EF, as I do.
During the 1980s at a parish in Ventura, it was customary to hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer. The congregation even shifted their positions to reach across the center aisle. Everyone held hands, except one middle-aged gentleman. He kept his arms folded across his chest. Those standing next to him had hurt feelings on their faces. He seemed to be a pariah. Now, it looks like he was correct after all.
Most Catholics don’t know any better because no one has ever taught them not to hold hands during the Our Father. If they hold hands spontaneously and by mutual consent, then that is fine. But it is wrong for this practice to be imposed on us.
Most Catholics have friends or relatives that have left the practice of their Catholic faith and they now attend Harvest Crusade g-a-t-h-e-r-i-n-g-s. This is when it became super hip and cool for dissenters to teach or allow unsuspecting Catholics to raise their arms and hands swaying in the air. Keep leading, Don Guillermo! Jesus never intended for his sheep to…. “J-o-u-r-n-e-y T-o-g-e-t-h-e-r”…. in ignorance. .
Hosea: 4 :6-10
My people have been silent, because they had no knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will reject thee, that thou shalt not do the office of priesthood to me: and thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I also will forget thy children. According to the multitude of them so have they sinned against me: I will change their glory into shame. They shall eat the sins of my people, and shall lift up their souls to their iniquity. And there shall be like people like priest: and I will visit their ways upon them, and I will repay them their devices. And they shall eat and shall not be filled: they have committed fornication, and have not ceased: because they have forsaken the Lord in not observing his law.
Who cares?!? If you find comfort in holding hands, then hold hands. If you find it distasteful, then cast your hands to the sky. Aren’t there more important things in the world, like starving children, that you should be concerned with?
What about finding comfort reading comic books or your IPad at Mass, or eating while going up to communion? Personal responsibility is key, “Panthermom.” We are Roman Catholics and should have a common Mass, a common language, and a common understanding of our Faith. Sadly, judging from the tone of your comment, you embrace the “personal” faith path of Protestants (if it feels good, then do it).
Very true Former Altar Boy, that was TOTALLY inserted into the Pater Noster and Bugnini knew what he was doing, as far as holding hands simple: Attend the True Mass of All Times and you will not have to do that Protestant childish non-sense.
Well, in San Francisco, even if you wear your wedding ring, if you are a man and attend Mass by yourself, (usually on the weekdays, but sometimes on Sundays) almost always a very nice man, a very, very nice smiling man—or several very nice smiling men—will come walking way over to you across the main aisle, to give you a very, very warm, warm handshake, and maybe prowl around to try to meet you afterwards. (This really happens, and not to me alone.)
Rule: Always attend Novus Ordo daily Mass with Mrs. Phoenix or one of your daughters — or run out as tho’ to take a break right after the Our Father. :)
You flatter yourself
Ah: One of the very, very nice men pokes his head out! :)
Hi, hi, fellow Catholic!
Don’t you just love that Kiss of Peace!
Steve… Your charge that this kind of flirtatious behaviour happens with
any frequency in Catholic masses in SF or anywhere is just plain crazy.. Why are you so focused on gay men?
Ahh, “C&H”, (1) you are wrong, it does happen and that is why I pointed it out, and (2)you are in denial about it and (3) how would you know anyway, being a female, since this is about “happy men” coming on to other men at the “Kiss of Peace”?
Yes, I realize I observed something LGBT-ETC. want to keep in the closet, and also you necessarily must walk in step with the Queer-Brethren and form a united front.
But if anything, you owe me an apology for telling the truth, not blaming me for my “gay-men problem “. Tell the Brethren to elevate their minds a notch. Thank you.
It sounds like that place is a piranha tank for poor altar boys. I find myself being reminded of the Biblical description of Sodom. The Bible shows us what we are up against when dealing with militant homosexuals.
SP, RE: Your astute observations about the GBLTQ crew in the new Sodom & Gomorrah = San Fran. Is it surprising that they offer a ‘very warm welcome’ to a new ‘victim’ anywhere but especially in SF & in church? Not really, as they dwell in the devils playground, at odds with God’s design for them & ignoring the call to chastity, for all walks of life. So, THANKS for the warning!! Are you aware, that your comments will draw out those of the SSA ilk? Looks like you have been called-out already by some of the perpetually confused souls on this site. They attack you because they have sympathy for the devil. Especially those that you identified. You can almost hear the hissing of serpents……
bishop coyne has a liturgical commentary video in whih he states that holding hands at mass clearly oriiiiginated in the 60’s( but explains no futher). it is known that civil rights protestors held hands while singing spiritual and poliitical songs. perhaps the point of entry in the catholic mass was with songs like ‘kumbaya’ and ‘where have all the flowers gone”, at a time the ‘folk mass’ became for many the standard vatican ii mass, especially on campuses.
If you prefer not to hold hands, just do what I do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6HPHfDYJ_w
Works every time.
Love it, Hymie. Still laughing. They might, though, think you are possessed by demons and bring in the exorcist.
No, unfortunately they won’t, since sin is outmoded, there is no devil, and no meaning can be ascribed to the term ‘exorcist.’
A.T, :)
Right before the Our Father, I pull out my old school, discolored handkerchief and let loose with a sneeze and a hack.
Hand-holding and hugging are “tricks of the trade,” from the field of humanistic psychology. Such “gimmicks” were introduced into the Mass, by liberal Catholic leaders, humanists with educational psych college degrees, after Vatican II. When we have terrible tragedies, like a war, or 9/11– it is appropriate, to hug or hold hands! And patients who are very sick, traumatized, or near-death– really do need hugs and hand-holdings! But in the case of the average Catholic Mass-goer, no!! It is inappropriate! Humanistic psychology can also be deceptively dangerous, with its “gimmicks,” because they can mislead people into false intimacy that is inappropriate– especially in a public place, such as a church!
Religion is tragically misused, when “psychobabble” gimmicks are inserted into liturgies! The man or woman who is sitting next to you at Mass, is NOT your “friend,” nor is the priest your “friend!” You must not think in terms of casually relating to others, whom you have never met before, in a public place, such as a church! BEWARE!! Be cordial and friendly– but also, keep your dignity, and strong, appropriate boundaries, in human relating! Do not let “psychobabblers” MANIPULATE you into false intimacies, in the name of “RELIGION!!” BE CAREFUL with a priest or parishioner whom you DO NOT KNOW— and use good, common sense! That is what I believe!
Linda Maria, in Church, at Mass, the person next to you is your “friend” because you are in the House of the Lord in communion with other believers and worshipers. Going to Mass is not an individual prayer, its not meant to be. It is an opportunity to worship God as a community. You can worship God in your kitchen if you want, but when you go to Mass you are in communion with others. When parishioners hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer, the Our Father, they do it because they want to pray the prayer He taught us together, as a community. Many choose not to do that and that’s OK; simply don’t extend your hands.
…when we are in a classroom we are learning together, Bob One, but that doesn’t mean we need to hold hands or engage in those activities that can and do interrupt the flow of learning. Some activities require that we wait until after ritual is over to chat, hug, etc.
Forced physical interaction often draws the mind and soul back from that more intimate, spiritual union that, in the long term, is more beneficial for the individual soul and that of our neighbors.
As to what/who constitutes a “friend” there are still natural boundaries that are there for good reason, Bob One. A picnic or a social meeting is the proper place to commune and make friends, not during the ritual sacrifice of the Mass. And true friendships build up…
Ann Manley, you sound like you don’t come from California where complete strangers greet each other with hugs on first meeting. :) It would be rude not to do that in many circles. Oh, for the old more formal ways of living together where we each knew our place and no one stepped into our “space.” :)
Complete and utter garbage, “Bob One.” You alone are responsible for your worship, and your life and your sins. The Catholic Community may be your faith-family, but they will not be your judge, as Christ will be, when you die. Holding hands is a Protestant practice — if that — and has no basis in Catholic doctrine or liturgical history. This practice is one more way that the Zombie-Liberal clergy seeks to divide your personal worship of Christ by imposing interruption, and silliness.
I don’t suppose that being so close to the Sacrifice of Calvary bears any resemblance to a tragedy, a war, 9/11 …
We just need to return to the Latin Mass. How well I remember sleeping in the back of the Church as the priest droned on in Latin. There was certainly no holding hands back in the “good ole days” because most people didn’t know what was going on.
And, of course, because Harold had such a low level of self-commitment in the pre-Vatican II rite, the Novus Ordo is perfect for his indolent soul.
That’s untrue and I am sick and tired of people trotting out these silly memes about how boring Mass was. Perhaps this it true for you personally…but that would be your problem. As a second grader I remember having an “aha” moment. I knew that the consecration brought about the true prescience in the host and I wanted to know about the other mysterious and sacred things going on on the other side of the communion rail!
I wonder why so many people had and used missals with both Latin and their spoken language?
And no, the priest did not have his back to the people…
Not true, except perhaps for you. Everyone I know followed along, as the split page in the missals made for easy reading. Further, the Latin was not “droning” and was clear enough (as an altar boy, I certainly heard the priests and they all seemed to approach the Mass reverently). People almost all knew several of the prayers in Latin by heart once they were adults anyway. Finally, the priests spoke of the importance of the Mass and of assisting at the True Sacrifice of Christ. Too bad there was not a computer and internet then, the Mass would never have changed. We followed the Church leaders out of obedience — stupidly so.
Boring is as boring does? Don’t they say: What you get out of attendance at holy mass = the effort & attitude you bring to the holy mass. It’s Jesus folks!
Our Church, and other churches, too– used to teach everyone daily, the importance of Christian charity, and to be Christ-like! True Christian charity is not of ourselves, it is of Christ! We must learn daily, to step aside of our human egos, and human weaknesses, and needs and wants– and “deny the flesh,” serve God, and help others, in a Christ-like way! This can be difficult, at times! Learning Christ-like virtue, is not easy! St. Mother Teresa lived her whole life this way! Hand-holding and hugs are an easy thing, for many people! But the practice of true Christian charity, is much deeper!
P.S. It has really unnerved me, to see “college-kid-style” hand-holding and “huggies” in a church– and next, someone elderly, crippled, or abused by a violent spouse, (etc.) and really in need– left all alone, in very dangerous or terribly sad situations! Especially at Christmastime! Also, to be hospitalized, even near-death– and where is their priest? Where are all their “good friends” from the parish?? Worse– the parish secretary might let you know, how much things cost– like certain Sacraments, (and do they favor parishioners who are regular tithers, with lots of money??) And what is the current priest’s stipend,(fees) for something like a Catholic burial– or even a baptism! . SHOCKING!
In the 1980s a friend asked me to accompany her to an AA/AlAnon meeting for support. At the end everyone was supposed to stand and join hands and pray Our Father then hand raising followed with For The Kingdom and followed with Keep Coming Back It Works and a hand squeeze. Sometime after that it started happening in my Catholic parish. I suspect the Charismatic-Cursillo-whatever people brought it into their parishes. All kinds of Missallettes have instructions and this behavior is not specified. Ask the grabbers to show you.
Ah…to hold hands or not? To drink (from a common cup) or not? To help with a decision, here is a one of many lists of infectious/contagious bugs @ http://www.health.ri.gov/diseases/infections/ It’s also good to know the facts about how some highly contagious diseases are transmitted. Look @ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/transmission_(medicine) Continued……………
Continued……………My premise: Our country is moving in a different direction. The gates of Sodom & Gomorrah (& long list of diseases) opened up in the USA as did potties. World wide air travel & open borders bring people here without vaccines & strange diseases without medical testing. Yes, vaccines, PROPER hand washing, clean potties, & medicines help. But have you followed any of the recent ‘outbreaks’ during a school year? Much more then the colds & flu of our past. It’s more likely to be: tuberculosis, whooping cough, weird measles, even leprosy, etc. No room to list all the scary contagious bugs.
Continued……God forbid this scenario. This may sound impossible today, but experts say it’s only a matter of when. One highly contagious, easily transmitted disease we have been spared experiencing here in large numbers so far, is ebola. They say it’s a matter of time because it is still out there. Sounds far away, but not when you consider world wide air travel, refugees, and hidden (illegal) immigration. But not to worry. The government (haha) will keep us all safe!
Return the TRADITIONAL LATIN MASS to all of our churches and put an end to all of this Novus Ordo garbage already, 50 years of disaster!!!!!!!!!!!!
J, YES! I pray that this happens sooner then later. Heaven on earth. How about reverse of what is out there now? One NO mass at some obscure (usually far away & in a failing neighborhood) location during crazy hours and the TLM every where else? Let’s try that for the next 50 years! They altered what was NEVER broken. Sadly many Catholics left and mass attendance has never been the same. Isn’t that a sign? God bless us with a re-newal.
Harold that is such a lame excuse and nobody buys that anymore, if you want your Novus Ordo dinner service by all means go for it, we on the other hand want to attend the Holy Sacrifice of The Mass with Our Lord, worshiping him and not each other. We have the True Mass of All Times you have the “man made” Bugnini dinner service completely Protestant and fake.
in the early 1980’s i remember my parish priest discussing the ‘continual application’ of vatican II suggesting that as people came to more deeply understand the essence of the mass as a common meal, the next step would be churches with many small tables for seated , focussed sharing. it would be like a nice restaurant meal, although with a focus and the ‘word and the bread; it seems that it never got much farther as holland evolved itself to near-zero attendance levels. when john paul ii became pope, one of his first urgent visits was with the bishops of holland to keep them from going over the edge .
Great example, “drewelow.” Holland and all Nordic countries are still a disaster area regarding Catholicism, but things might change. It is everywhere obvious that the Church cannot embrace modernity and its vile practices. The Mass is about worshiping Jesus, not being entertained, or playing kissy-face with our neighbors. The Mass is not a “communal meal” (except to Protestants and the Protestant-Catholics that inhabit the Vatican); it is a re-enacted sacrifice of the Cross. This is why we belief in “Christ crucified” not Christ the Happy-Meal-Man.
Not only that, but anybody sleeping during a TLM pre-1969 probably left entirely when the NO came along. In 1960, 75% of Catholics attended weekly Mass, now it’s 25%. And that’s why arguments in favor of the NO are so illusory. It’s the NO which hoards of Catholics abandoned, not the TLM. One doesn’t see TLM Catholics deciding to become Episcopalians.
Janek, I know you are a fervent lover of the TLM, and that is ok. But, to call the Catholic Mass a “dinner service” borders on willful heresy in the least and, what is worse? I can’t think any other way you could show your contempt for Christ more fully than with that type of statement.
“The Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary to such an extent that there is no problem, no matter how difficult it is, whether temporal or above all spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families…that cannot be solved by the Rosary. There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Rosary.”
Sister Lucia
Holding hands during the Our Father reminds me of a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous where the meeting ends with the recitation of the Our Father with all in attendance holding hands and then everyone concluding with: You all keep coming to meetings. During the Mass if I am at a parish where people hold hands I simply fold my hands and refuse to hold hands. I get dirty looks and some people try to get me to hold hands, but I am steadfast in my refusal. A few minutes later during the greeting of peace these same people seem surprised that I do shake hands.
I served as an altar boy during the late 1950’s and early 1960’s. Often I served at the 6:30 a.m. Mass before the start of the school day. I remember several of the “holy” priests who could barely get through this early morning Mass because they were so hung over. Also, they smelled of stale tobacco. By the way, I am still a practicing Roman Catholic! Praise God!