A rejoinder

The following excerpts come from a May 11 story on the Daily Beast website.

The [bishops’] most recent public pronouncement on the issue of same-sex marriage was a statement released Thursday in which the bishops expressed their approval of a vote in North Carolina in which citizens passed a constitutional amendment to define marriage as between a man and a woman.

“This is not a partisan issue, but a matter of justice, fairness, and equality for the law to uphold every child’s basic right to be welcomed and raised by his or her mother and father together,” Bishop Salvatore Cordileone, chairman of the USCCB’s subcommittee on the Promotion and Defense of Marriage, said in the statement. 

Cordileone’s position is dead wrong, says Daniel Maguire, a theologian and Marquette University professor who has written on church teaching and sexuality. Maguire said the interpretation of church teaching held by Dolan, Cordileone, and other bishops isn’t representative of the position held by many lay Catholics and theologians.

“Most Catholic theologians approve of same-sex marriage and Catholics generally do not differ much from the overall population on this issue.”

“Archbishop Dolan and the United States Catholic Conference are misrepresenting ‘Catholic teaching,’ and are trying to present their idiosyncratic minority view as the ‘Catholic position,’ and it is not,” Maguire wrote in an email to the Daily Beast. “The bishops will stand with Dolan and the U.S. Catholic Conference, but on this issue, they are in moral schism since most in the Church have moved on [to] a more humane view on the rights of those whom God has made gay….”

One of those [Catholic theologians mentioned by Maguire] is Frederick Parrella, a professor of theology at Santa Clara University, a Catholic institution in California. Parrella said he sees growing support for same-sex marriage among his Catholic students, and that he himself finds “nothing in the Gospels” that should lead the church to oppose its legalization….

To read entire article, Click here.



Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:08 AM By Abeca Christian
Why is this trash being published! These kind of anti-Catholic Christians articles are giving too much publicity to their dissent! This is trash! Like the censoring that goes on, on the faithful often!

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:11 AM By Sawyer
I know from firsthand experience that Mr. Parrella has provided dubious catechetical and theological presentations to Catholic school teachers in the Diocese of San Jose. I was present at one in which he stated that same-sex sexual acts and unions could be considered “sacramental”. The theological guild has many who are corrupt. No theologian who contradicts the magisterium regarding the disorderedness and intrinsic evil of homosexual acts and unions should be trusted or even considered to be practicing Catholic theology.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:38 AM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Re.: “Parrella said he sees growing support for same-sex marriage among his Catholic students, and that he himself finds “nothing in the Gospels” that should lead the church to oppose its legalization…. “. Of course, with their “Professors” constantly bombarding their minimally at best formed consciences with their barnyard theology, what else could one expect. Until the Bishops actually learn the fear of God, things will continue to get worse in our so called Catholic Institutions. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 1:17 AM By Clinton
So according to Daniel Maguire, homosexuality should be accepted because: “Most Catholic theologians approve of same-sex marriage and Catholics generally do not differ much from the overall population on this issue.” It doesn’t matter if so called Catholic theologians (the term theologian can be quite liberal) or “Catholics” in general approve of homosexuality, it is a grave sin and an abomination to God. If 99.9999% of the world believed homosexuality was acceptable, it would still be a sin. God is unchangeable and His Church is unchangeable as well. That Maguire is allowed to inject his poison at a Catholic university is reprehensible. People like this desire to turn the Immaculate Bride of Christ into a harlot. The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite. Ecclesiastes 1:15

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:22 AM By Aaron
Catholics often confuse gay marriage with the Sacrament of Marriage, which are two entirely different things. The Sacrament of Marriage is blessed by God, Bliblical by definition and available only for the union of a man and a woman. Stripped of all the rhetoric, gay marriage is nothing more than enabling the lesbian couple that lives down the street to purchase a marriage license from the county clerk in order to legalize their relationship; it is a positive for society because it encourages couples to remain together for a lifetime. To me, allowing gays to purchase a marriage license is far more moral than pseudo heterosexual marriages conducted by Elvis impersonators in Las Vegas which have little chance for survival (e.g., Elizabeth Taylor was legally married 5 or 6 times?). Further, the Church is not threatened: just as the Church refuses the Sacrament of Marriage to those who have been divorced, the Church will NEVER be required to conduct marriage ceremonies for gay couples!

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:39 AM By lemuel
same-sex couples are not asking for the sacrament of matrimony. they are asking for the same recognation of their conjugal status as the state gives to heterosexuals. it is a terribly complex issue, and demands a serious study of what religion and ethics have to say about the matter. biblical injunctions must be understood according to their historical context, and the ideas of right and natural law must be studied as well. it is a most unconvincing hermenutic to base conclusions simply on “the bible says,” or “the church has always taught.”

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:24 AM By Ray Marshall
Maguire is a heretic and has been for a very long time. He is also a fraud and a hypocrite for taking money from an organization whose core believe he rejects.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:28 AM By Ray Marshall
I can’t believe you took an article from Andrew Sullivan’s “Daily Beast!” Does the homosexual collective control you, too?

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:43 AM By Nancy
Since when is Church doctrine an issue of popular support? Is abortion acceptable due to acceptance by people? God has let us know that homosexual acts are an abomination. Having an attraction to the same sex may be a temptation to sin, but then so is alcoholism, a drive to overeat or obsession with sex in general. We all have “crosses of one sort or another, and how we chose to bear them of give in to them is up to us. Those theologians should learn from the Bible what happens to those who turn from God and choose the path of sin, and to those who would corrupt others.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:56 AM By Phil Malham Jr
So Parrella finds nothing in the Gospel that would lead the church to oppose same sex marriage. Did he misread the passage where it says that a man laying with a man is an abomination ? This the type of crap the ” new ” professors from the Vatican 2 era are exposing our kids to in college. These professors/teachers can’t even read the Bible for what its worth let alone teach our kids right from wrong. II’m a traditional Catholic, but what these kids need is some good ole ” fire and brimstone ” teaching about GOD’s love and his commandments to us. Funny, I don’t see anything in the Gospel that says…God says obey and follow my commandments if you want to, if not…do what you want….I’ll understand…….God does loves us and he allows us ” free will “…..but what most people forget is that free will comes with a price….we are accountable for our choices under free will and must answer to him for those choices.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:06 AM By JLS
People such as Daniel Maguire, who act or speak in any way complicit with the “sin that cries out to Heaven for vengeance”, aka sodomy, joins others in an unnatural act of sex, whether physically or mentally or imaginatively, and makes him or herself joined in sodomy, an abysmally evil sin.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:10 AM By St. Christopher
Where is this in the Gospels, Mr. Parrella? Among the direction of all to “love”? Or is it that God makes only good things so all of his creations are “good”? This simpleton approach to scriptural understanding does not stop with homosexual sex issues; divorce, sex outside of marriage, women priests, all these things are on the same agenda of “theologians” such as Parrella. Very cute, as well, that Parrella places the Catholic population at large (many of which are non-practicing) and Catholic students (ditto), as barometers of what is acceptable Catholic morality. His notion of acceptability is purely political and not theological. In fact, it is likely that such theologians are not practicing Catholics at all, but are academic creatures, learning wrongly and teaching badly, all the while holding themselves out to be “the majority” in Catholic-land. Time to cut the cord on these theologians and their comic-book reading of scripture. (Not that Santa Clara is much of a Catholic college in any event, but they can go up the road and teach at Standford or UCBerkeley, or SFState, or UCDavis.)

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:16 AM By JMJ
I didn’t bother to read the entire article, as this little bit that you have given us is sad and very sickening enough. God DID NOT make anyone homosexual, this is the death-style that they themselves picked for whatever reason. We should all be gay in the right sense as God wants us to be, which would mean that we would be in His Holy Will and not the ‘will’ of the likes of Mr. Maguier nor Mr. Parrella, of which, both should be fired from their jobs as they are an insult to holiness and the teachings of the Church, which came from God. If they can’t find these teachings in the Gospels, this must mean that they are using the same ‘bibles’ as Biden, Pelosi, Bill Press (a fallen-away ‘catholic’ that thank God, was thrown out of his Seminary: what a horrible priest he would have been), the Kennedys and of course, Obama himself. As we should all know: GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED and His time is coming very soon as Holy Scripture and Our Blessed Lady has told us and is still telling us. +JMJ+

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:20 AM By bellaitalia
I believe in the people GOD called to guide his church, not in the whims of public opinion.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:42 AM By Adhemarde
The “Jesus never spoke against homosexuality” is specious and sophomoric. Jesus does not have to speak specifically on every sin to make it a sin. He never directly told people not to commit murder; does that make murder less a sin? The Old Testament and the New Testament speak many times about the evil of homosexuality. Jesus said in Mt. 5:17 that he did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, who spoke many times against homosexuality. This :theologian” is a perfect example of how our “Catholic” institutions have been infiltrated by non-believers and by homosexuals, and need to be purged.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:57 AM By Sue in soCal
I would refer Mr. Daniel Maguire to the other two articles on this site today. Viva Cristo Rey!

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:21 AM By Don Guillermo
All teachings are not created equal. Magisterial teachings are infallible. The Magisterium infallibly teaches that homosexual acts are “instrinsically disordered,” much like Mr. Maguire’s so-called “theology.”

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:22 AM By Dan
I have no reason to doubt Parrella at all; the acceptance of same-sex marriage is a no-brainer for most of my coworkers at the college where I teach. And if this is true for my colleagues, it is most likely true for the students. I have never heard a word about traditional marriage from the pulpit in all my years as a Catholic; such silence has created a vacuum very quickly filled with the current secular zeitgeist. The brazenness of Maguire can only be understood in light of the avalanche of support among catholyc academia and the utter disdain with which they hold traditional Church teachng on sexual matters in general. The bishops better sound the clarion call soon, or the likes of Maguire and Parrella will hold sway over the hearts and minds of our catholic youth, and average pew-sitter.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:34 AM By Prof.Helen
How did these men get college teaching jobs? Forget about Church teaching just look at HISTORY (which I teach in college). No society ever has sanctioned same sex marriage – not even Sparta which was definitely gay friendly. Because marriage as an institution is not about romantic love. It is an institution established to protect the prorperty rights of women and their offspring and to provide a stable environment for the rearing of said offspring.It’s not mostly about the married folks themselves. Given that POV polygamy is actually more defensible because it allows for the reproduction of homo sapiens sapiens which is the point.AMEN

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:45 AM By Don Guillermo
In Matthew 10:15, our Lord does, in fact, implicitly condemn the sin of Sodom. In the first chapter of Romans, St. Paul is unequivocal in his condemnation of homosexual acts and the ones who engage in them. Professor Parrella proves yet again that none are so blind as they who will not see.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:48 AM By mrpkguy
What part of the reasoning that condones sodomy visa-vi the acceptance of same sex marriage, don’t we who believe it’s sinful, not get? If someone can explain the justification of this please make it clear to the rest of us!

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:49 AM By Marie
I think I’m correct: He should read Romans in the Bible. A lot of Catholics I know do not support gay marriage. Marriage is between a man and a woman,

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:49 AM By MD
First, is Maguire looking at theologians from orthodox institutions or institutions such as Santa Clara or Loyola here in CA? If one asked theologians and professors at schools like Franciscan University, University of Dallas, Catholic U in DC, Thomas Aquinas, etc. they would discover orthodoxy and adherence to the Magesterium of the Church. Second, one thing theologians do not have that bishops have when in union with the pope is the promise of Christ to not be in error, to be prevented from proclaiming error. What Maguire is overlooking is that the US Bishops are anointed apostles of Jesus who are proclaiming Church teaching on the matters plaguing the US in this time and do so under the guidance of the holy father. I have heard Dr. Scott Hahn talk about the necessity for humility as a theologian and the importance to trust the Magesterium of the Church and her bishops to refrain from teaching error. This coming from one of the most brilliant theological minds in our time, the understanding that he would submit his position to the will of the Church in theological matters is what Christ calls us to. God Love You.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:55 AM By Don Guillermo
Perhaps John 8:44 is the most apt response to Maguire and Parrella: “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.”

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:19 AM By Bud 
These are not theologians but apologists for the far left wing of secularism and the current state of morals in this modern society. Nobody attacks the real reason because they refuse to give a logical and time proven reason for marriage. It’s about discrimination and a refusal to accept any form of fair alternative legal protection for their perceived self centered abuse!

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:27 AM By Patrick
The Church teaches that any sex outside the state of marriage, between man and woman as the Bible teaches, is a mortal sin. The so-called theology department at Santa Clara University is totally corrupt. Anybody teaching so-called theology, not in line with Catholic Doctrine, should be discharged. One has only to drive by and see the revealing dress of the students to realize something in rotton in Denmark at the school. It is a disgrace from the Catholic standpoint. McGuire provides no proof of his claim that so many folks support same sex marriage. Even if 90 percent of Catholics agreed with his claims, Christ’s Doctrines always take precedence over sheep who have strayed due to negligent shepherds.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:45 AM By Ted
Lay people and theologians are not charged with being “Defender of the Faith,” bishops are. Theologians and lay people are not the leaders of the Church, bishops are. The bishops also have the right to revoke the theologian’s right to use that title within the Roman Catholic Church. Perhaps now if some bishops exercise their right to do so, they will gain some credibility back. As they say in military circles, “Lead, follow or get out of the way!”

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:20 AM By Maryanne Leonard
Gay marriages would be easy to dissolve, because in college I was taught that marriage is not considered a legal contract until it is consummated. Members of the same sex cannot consummate a marital contract; ergo, Aretha gets annoyed with Zelda, marches off on her own, and bingo! No marriage existed because it was never consummated. No messy divorce proceedings required. Now it’s just a matter of splitting up the belongings and any children acquired only God knows how, which should be easy, as they will already be decimated.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:25 AM By Elizabeth
Mr. McGuire, with all charity…….there are moral theologians and there are moral theologians. Apparently, you are not a true moral theologian when you utter those out of step words of the Church!!!

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:36 AM By Cody in Tucson
Gees, why did I think that this topic would fill this thread with comments so quickly! Every time my old Jesuit high school from the 60’s sends their latest appeal for funds, as I rip it up I think to myself “not until you clean up the mess of an order that you have turned into and I have seen the Jebees become Catholic again for a minimum of 20 years to prove that you have really changed, will I ever send you any donations”! I guess I will probably be a pretty old man or have assumed room temperature when that happens!

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:48 AM By Fr. Bob B 
Full disclosure: Daniel Maguire is a man who abandoned his priesthood, though I believe he did so via dispensation. In and of itself, this does not render his theological opinions erroneous—–although, objectively, they often are. What is more telling is that he is one of those who have, in all reality, left the Church—–but will not leave it alone. You’ll always find him in the forefront of dissenters. Consider his pedigree when evaluating his opinions.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 10:04 AM By Bio
Forget the Theology Departments! Ask the Biology Department about the function and purposes of the human reproductive and digestive systems and what happens when the two are combined.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 10:22 AM By Delilah
READ THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!! Homosexuals are to be loved and respected. The homosexual act is gravely disordered. Homosexuals are called to be chaste, as indeed, are all of us. The bishops are inline with the CCC. They are affirming what the Church has been teaching for over 2000 years. Pax

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 10:22 AM By Sandra
If you love God you will obey His commandments. All of them.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 11:08 AM By whhaiber
“‘Cordileone’s position is dead wrong,’ says Daniel Maguire, a theologian and Marquette University professor who has written on church teaching and sexuality.” The Pope is dead wrong, the Magisterium is dead wrong, the whole Tradition of Holy Mother Church is dead wrong. Behold the fruits of Vatican II! The Mass is only the obvious symptom of what is wrong in the Church!

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 11:55 AM By Camille
Since whenis Catholic moral teaching based on a majority vote? The state can legislate whatever type of cohabitation contracts they want, but that can not produce a union between the spouses and God. Also these Gay marriage unions can not produce children so how can these joinings be fertile and multiple? They need to take someone else’s child in order to raise it, thereby negating the multiplication table.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:20 PM By Rose
Daniel McGuire is the same anti-Catholic Theologian, who along with his wife, another anti-Catholic Theologian, who developed the concept coined in the following phrase, “Personally, I am opposed to, but…” He is also the originator of the, “Pro Choice.” concept. He instructed the Kennedy’s at their camp in Hyannis and also prepared Governor Mario Cuomo before his address at Notre Dame University on these two non-Catholic approaches.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:24 PM By Pops
Daniel Maguire long ago chose his own god when he abandoned the Holy Priesthood and the Truth. Pray that he may repent before his judgment.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 1:42 PM By k
Daniel Maguire is the theologian who made up pamphlets about how the Church is wrong on abortion and contraception and also same sex marriage and mailed them to each bishop. The USCCB condemned the pamphlets in 2006. He is a professor of moral theology. A student of his told me that she would not even talk about what he teaches in his class.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 1:57 PM By Rick DeLano
Most Catholic theologians today do not support Catholicism.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:44 PM By MarkF
Aaron and Lemuel, so should we then give legal marital status to polygamous couples and incestuous couples? If not, on what legal ground?

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:48 PM By Anna
Why do you publish this rubbish? There is no proof the majority of Catholic lay people and/or theologians support gay marriage other than in the theatre of your mind. Stop portraying Catholics as unsure of where they stand on the issue of marriage. Truth is not elusive and remains the same today as yesterday and it will stand the test of time for all tomorrows as well. Marriage is a union between one woman and one man. PERIOD.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:10 PM By Anne T.
It is a sad day in education when some college “professors” cannot even read at an elementary school level. They certainly do not pass the test on Biblical scholarship and the catechism of the Catholic Church by any means, neither do they pass simple biology either.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:20 PM By Anne T.
Some of them sound like Ex-president Bill Clinton when he repeatedly said in an interview that we should not use embrios for stem-cell research if they are already fertilized. Well, embrios ARE fertilized, and even I know that one even though I do not have a full college degree. What was more mind-boggling was that the doctor interviewing him did not even correct him. It makes you wonder just who is operating on you, a physician or one who just got passed because (and you name it). The interview is all on line under “Interview with Bill Clinton on embrionic stem-cell research”. Quite frankly, I think they thought the general public was stupid enough to believe them and just lied about it.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:26 PM By MEG
It does not matter what HERETICAL and SCHISMATIC Theologians and others think. They are not the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. They should simply be called HERETICS and/or SCHISMATICS. The TRUTH of Catholic Church teaching can be found in the “CCC 2nd Ed”. Theologians are not God, they merely have a PHD in religion classes – no big deal in today’s society.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:36 PM By MIKE
Aaron, promoting MORTAL SIN – sodomy, etc., is against the Catholic Faith. Homosexual civil marriage includes sexual acts. If you Love your Neighbor as commanded by Jesus, you will not want him/her to go to Hell for eternity. Admonishing sinners is a Work of Mercy. If you are Catholic you can not tell someone with Same Sex Attraction (SSA) it’s ok for them to form a permanent sinful partnership/relationship/civil marriage.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:39 PM By MIKE
When any Catholic approves of same sex marriage, they are participating in the Mortal Sin. CCC: ” 1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them: – by participating directly and voluntarily in them; – by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them; – by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so; – by protecting evil-doers. “

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:46 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Aaron, 2:22 AM Re.: “the Church will NEVER be required to conduct marriage ceremonies for gay couples!” If I actually believed you believe that, I would label you as one of the dumbest persons on earth. You know darn well that it has already happened in some places, and that is THEIR goal! That is why some of us have already been threatened right on this Website for quoting the Scriptures! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:58 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
It would not surprise me in the least bit if Daniel Maguire and Parrella were in the mind of the late Dr. Bella Dodd when she spoke of seminarians and professors who had been implanted into Church positions by the Communist Party USA, the same Party that now endorses Comrade Obama. By the way, I am fairly certain that Maguire was at least one time a speaker at Mahony’s now Gomez’s dissent fest, the REC (Religious Education Congress). God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:05 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Dam, 7:22 AM, If the Bishops don’t sound the Clarion Call soon, I am afraid the call they will hear loud and clear is their call to Judgement for failure to defend the FAITH! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:14 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Cody, 9:36 AM, I hope and pray that you let them know why you are tearing up their fundraising letters, otherwise it really only satisfies you. You must let them know in uncertain terms of your just anger! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:17 PM By JLS
Anna, you must be in a momentary dream world. Don’t you know that the holy institution of marriage, presided over by the Catholic Church, is being attacked on the highest political levels with help from evil men and women purporting to be Catholic, many of them teaching or saying Mass under auspices of the Church? Why, then, would you call the issue unworthy for discussion? Would it be that you are in fact hostile to true marriage and are trying to undermine souls?

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:21 PM By JLS
It is probably impossible for many Catholic theologians to make a good living teaching theology without teaching dissent, because that is where the money is. When is the last time we saw big money following the Truth? Not even in the Gospel do we see this. Jesus, in fact, was tempted by the devil with big money. What does this say about these phoney theologians who pretend to be Catholic? They really are devilics and not Catholics.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:26 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Forget the 90%. Even if you were the only one left on this earth to oppose such activity, you would be right in God’s eyes, and the rest of the world would be on its way to PERDITION! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:01 PM By Jim 
Please don’t tell me anyone thinks Maguire is a Catholic theologian.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:33 PM By Lucia826
If marriage, in fact, encouraged people to “stay together” as one poster here posits, then our divorce rate among heterosexuals would not be what it is. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Laws can be legislated to grant special partnership “rights” to others who have some form of “union.” Marriage as a sacrament is NOT condoned by the Catholic Church…PERIOD. If anyone tells you differently, they are full of it.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:35 PM By Rick DeLano
Never have been able to figure out how same sex couples consummate their “marriage”…….

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:48 PM By Rick DeLano
Mike: Your points are incontrovertible. The sad truth is that they are also irrelevant. It is not your job to enforce these Truths of Faith. It is the job to the bishops. They continue to miserably fail. Perhaps the SSPX can help.

Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:49 PM By Abeca Christian
God bless you MIKE and others of like mind for defending truth and publicly exposing the lie that these evil false theologians are advocating!

Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2012 5:36 AM By JMJ
Aaron: you still are so confused and wrong. The Catholic Church and all other Christian Churches will be FORCED to preform these ‘marriages’ and if the “Gay Right to Work” bill gets through, and this time it along with the other two pro-homosexual bills, will become law, which means that the Churches and all businesses will have to hire these people and they won’t be able to fire them, even if they can’t or won’t do the work that they were hired to do. It is very disgusting that these politicians are using the word “gay” in these Anti-God bills. GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED!! +JMJ+

Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2012 6:48 AM By k
Aaron, a lot of people see marriage as “just a piece of paper.” We are trying to tell people that marriage is more than that. I know you live outside the US now and I don’t know when you moved, but it is shocking how US culture has changed because of the erosion of the family. Those families that remain intact are under considerable stresses from anti-family forces and yes, one of them is the push for gay marriage. I know you had a long marriage with your wife and you have many children. I know that you kept your orientation from your wife. I assume it was because you realized the destruction and devastation that it would cause to your marriage and your family to reveal it. I agree with people on this website that say the Church, the bishops should have started long before now to teach the sanctity of marriage, the vocation of marriage. Those who do not have the benefit of access to sacramental marriage because the circumstances of their lives have not brought them to the Catholic Faith, should not be deprived of the benefits of traditional marriage. And yes, of course, churches will be pressured to perform gay marriages.

Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:10 AM By Cody in Tucson
Kenneth – I did that a few years ago and the Jesuit president of the school implored me not to take it out on them since he had no control of that situation. Basically my shredding machine listens better to me as I feed in their stuff!

Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2012 2:15 PM By Abeca Christian
Rick DeLano MIKE is fine in doing so because like you said the Bishops are failing at doing their job to lead properly. Maybe some may lead but for some reason, they are all not united, mixed messages only bring more confusion. I actually appreciated MIKE’s posts this time around. It gives me hope and I also appreciate how others are saying the same thing but in their own words! God help us!

Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:43 PM By JLS
k, you are overlooking the fact that “gay” marriage is a means to gain financial benefits otherwise only available to normal married people. It is a rip off, k, of society’s money system, a bank job by the homosexual community, both its practitioners and its supporters.

Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:46 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Cody in Tucson, 10:10 AM, This is what a Mystic once told me “KEEP TELLING THEM”, and he was talking about the Bishops! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:51 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
9:33 PM By Lucia826, “Marriage as a sacrament is NOT condoned by the Catholic Church…PERIOD”. Did you get that from the REC? I guess by your definition, almost everyone on this Website, especially me, are “full of it”! For your information, Our Lord Himself made it a Sacrament! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2012 4:56 PM By JLS
There is natural marriage, and this can be raised to a sacrament by the Church bearing witness to it. This is what the Wedding Mass is about.

Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2012 5:18 PM By k
JLS, I have notice that many reasons given for gay marriage are because of a financial benefit to the people. Can’t serve God and mammon.

Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2012 5:20 PM By ANDY
Homosexuals don’t need marriage for the benefits that can be found in “Wills”, as Insurance beneficiaires, jointly owned property, powers of attornies, and all other legal documents. They merely want to destroy real families, and force public approval of sodomy.

Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2012 7:47 PM By k
Mr. Fisher, I don’t want this post to get hijacked with questions about OLHC so would you see my question on Mixed Messages-Archives May 1

Posted Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:20 AM By Anne T.
Andy, your post May 16 at 5:20 p.m. hits the “nail right on the head”.

Posted Thursday, May 17, 2012 10:24 AM By Kenneth M. Fisher
k, 7:47 PM, I assure you that I have read ALL of your messages. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Thursday, May 17, 2012 5:58 PM By JonJ
Rick, the SSPX are too busy protecting their Arizona school Our Lady of Sorrows from playing in a state baseball championship against a team that included a girl. I guess they are too embarrassed to risk “losing to a girl” to think about helping out catholic bishops.

Posted Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:29 PM By k
Mr. Fisher, good to know. It is hard to discuss things of importance on this website as both of us have enemies which attack us here. As much as I would like to discuss your parish and priests, it cannot be done here without detriment to them both. So just know that I will take my concerns to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, in which I place all of those who attend your parish as well as your priests and those who have influenced them in their vocations. Rick DeLano has asked those of us who are turning the website into a swamp to take a break.. So I will. God bless you.

Posted Thursday, May 17, 2012 11:04 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
k, I can’t think of a better place to take your concerns to than the Hearts of Jesus and Mary. You might ad St. Joseph also. Thank you for your prayers. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Thursday, May 17, 2012 11:09 PM By JLS
What about social security benefits of “married” homosexuals?

Posted Friday, May 18, 2012 11:09 AM By k
Mr. Fisher, would you please consider something for me. Most Catholics in the US will probably die without ever assisting at the “Mass of Ages.” I have read here on CCD that the Archdiocese of San Francisco has only one priest that can say the EF. In my diocese, at first a priest from another diocese came to a city (which is 3 hours away from my parish). He could only come once a month. Then, a priest from our diocese trained with an order to learn the TLM and he was able to offer the Mass at a city 2 hours away from where I reside, twice a month. Another priest learned it and was able to relieve the visiting priest and offer it on another 2 Sundays a month. So now there is only one Sunday a month when our diocese does not have a Latin Mass. They offer them near the largest centers of population to make them available to the most people. That is all they can do what the priests that they have. Priests who are saying the Latin Mass are giving a great service to the Church and when they quit their diocese to go independent they are doing a great injustice to the faithful, to the Church and to the Lord. What I am asking you is, if you find out that someone (sedeprivationist or otherwise) is recruiting a diocesan priest to go independent, please tell that priest to contact each diocese in the US and ask if his service is needed there. The EF is supposed to be available wherever there are people who want it. We can’t get it if there are no priests willing to say it or willing to say it in the Catholic Church. Help your Mother and her plan for salvation.

Posted Friday, May 18, 2012 3:45 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
k, It is “sedevecantist” not “sedeprivationist”, and I already know many priests who have been refused when they offered their services. I have it from several competent Canon Lawyers that the Holy Fathers instructions are only fully carried out when there are no bishop made restrictions on the Tridentine Mass being celebrated not just on Sundays but daily. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher