The following is an excerpt from a July 18 posting by Carl Olson on the Catholic World Report website.
National Public Radio recently interviewed Sister Pat Farrell, the current president of the LCWR (Leadership Conference of Women Religious):
Farrell tells Fresh Air‘s Terry Gross that the leadership organization is currently gathering the perspectives of all of its members in preparation for its national assembly in August.
“We’re hoping to come out of that assembly with a much clearer direction about [the Vatican’s decision], and that’s when the national board and presidency can proceed,” she says.
Among the options on the table, she says, are fully complying with the mandate, not complying with the mandate or seeing if the Vatican will negotiate with them.
“In my mind, [I want] to see if we can somehow, in a spirited, nonviolent strategizing, look for maybe a third way that refuses to define the mandate and the issues in such black and white terms,” she says.
In other words, let’s sit down and talk about having further dialogue that will point us in the direction of additional conversations, which in turn will open up new vistas of vague and non-distinct paths ushering in an even more rewarding round of discussions, etc., etc.
Frankly, this is what it is like sometimes dealing with my seven-year-old son, who is verbally skilled, sometimes manipulative, very adept at deflection, and usually refuses to back down when caught breaking rules, telling lies, or stealing sweets. A “third way”? That’s simply grown-up talk for “one more chance”. Refusing to define issues in such “black and white terms” is a variation on “why do you always have to be so strict about X, Y, and Z?” The key to this approach is being willing to outlast—often through endless talk!—those in authority. It also helps to be able say one thing while claiming to say another.
But, first, how about a little dose of deflection?
“The question is, ‘Can you be Catholic and have a questioning mind?’ That’s what we’re asking. … I think one of our deepest hopes is that in the way we manage the balancing beam in the position we’re in, if we can make any headways in helping to create a safe and respectful environment where church leaders along with rank-and-file members can raise questions openly and search for truth freely, with very complex and swiftly changing issues in our day, that would be our hope. But the climate is not there. And this mandate coming from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith putting us in a position of being under the control of certain bishops, that is not a dialogue. If anything, it appears to be shutting down dialogue.”
First, begin with a nonsensical question (my son, caught watching a television channel he knows is off limits, says, “Why does my sister get to watch whatever she wants to?” Well, she doesn’t. But he’s not interested in the answer, is he?) Does Sister Farrell really ponder, with all seriousness, the question, “Can I be a Catholic and have a questioning mind?” Uh, the fact that a Catholic can even ponder such a question indicates the obvious answer: “Yes!” Crack open the Summa Theologica, one of the seminal theological and philosophical texts in the Tradition, and what do you find? Questions! Hundreds of ’em!
Because we were made to question, ponder, contemplate, and wonder. But what is really being asked is this: “Can I be a Catholic and reject certain Catholic teachings?” The giveaway is in the term “complex and swiftly shifting issues in our day”. The next part of deflection, of course, is blaming someone else. In this case, it’s the CDF and the bishops appointed by the CDF: “But the climate is not there.” Yes, that’s right: the forecast for the LCWR is stormy weather, not smooth sailing.
To read entire posting, click here.
If the women religious cut loose from the fatherness of the Church, then too bad for them, because there are faithful women stepping up to the challenge of the Gospel. Likewise, if those given the fatherness of the Church cut loose from what God intends, then the sooner they’re out of the way the sooner the Church will thrive. Deadwood is the same whether it be religious kindling or any other kind of waste.
“the fatherness of the church?”
i thought we’ve always said HOLY MOTHER CHURCH.
and the new mass translation constantly refers to the church as “she” and “her,” not as “it.”
now…if some people hate the fact that priests are called “father,” then they should get over it. just as a mother superior is called “mother,” or the head of a bendictine monastery is called “abbot” (from ‘father’). these are ancient catholic terms we don’t need to discard because of some gripe du jour…
sorry, guys, this 11:54 am post was from me.
i forgot to type in my little name and so got called Anoonymous.
Precisely the problem, max: you do not have any awareness of the fatherly nature of the Church. For example, priests are called “Father” because they bring the father aspect of God into our daily lives … well, that is what they are called to do. Jesus is the bridegroom and the Church is the Bride. The pope is the head of the body of Christ, and thus is the bridegroom and also since he is a member of the body of Christ, he is a member of the bride. So, max, your absurd account of Catholicism needs that you deepen your appreciation for the unfathomable mystery of God and His creation. This mystery is what the gays adulterate more than any other category of sinner, by fouling up God’s efforts to teach His people and all people. The gays are the chief rivals of God. God has instituted order; the gays seek to institute disorder.
JLS, sometimes you sound terribly nutty. like today.
your post is so bizarre and confsuing in terms of male and female, it would cause people to think you are some sort of hermaphrodite.
the church is mother.
the pope is father, as are our priests.
your post is just too weird for words.
“Weird” is rather pejorative. I’d call JLS “creative” and even “optimistic”: Were it true that “the gays are the chief rivals of God,” God would have a much easier time of it.
Sorry, Max, but this particular post of JLS is not crazy. Orthodox theologians, including many Popes and Saints, have been teaching exactly what he said in that post. Where have you been? Evidently you have never read many of the writings of the Saints, including the Popes. Christ IS the Bridegroom, the Church is the Mother and the Bride along with the Virgin Mary, and that is and has been taught for centuries. The Book of the Song of Solomon in the Old Testament has been used by St. Teresa of Avila and many other Saints, including male ones and Popes have taught those things. One male saint wrote a whole book on it. I forgot his name now, but it is called “The Song of Solomon”. If I get off of here to find his name, I will lose my post. Since every Catholic is part of the Chruch, the Bride of Christ, we are in that since, including males, the Bride of Christ. It is just what is called an analogy or a way of speaking and not to be taken in the abosolute literaly sense. Many, many excellent and good priests have given sermons on just that, so I am beginning to wonder just where you go to a church where you have never heard such a teaching.
Max and Francis, although I do not agree with everything JLS posts, and I am sure he does not always agree with me, nevertheless, he is definitely right in his post above. This teaching is presented in almost all Catholic prayerbooks in some way; the Missals in the church pews; the personal Missals put out by the Catholic Book Publishing Company and has been given in at some time during the year in all the Catholic churches I have gone to, so I do not know how any of the you have missed it, if you are the church attending Catholics you make yourselves out to be. I am not trying to be unkind, but it makes no sense that you have never heard Christ and Chrisitans referred to in such a manner if you really do go to Mass. Evidently, it is not very frequently and you must not have a Catholic catechism or praybook nor a Missal of your own.
Please exuse all the typos in my last post as I am in a hurry and have no time to correct them. Sorry!
I can’t speak for max, but my objection to what JLS posted is not so much that it lacks theological grounding (as you point out, he quotes many valid Catholic sources). I find his response incoherent. And on top of that, as I pointed out earlier, JLS’s assertion that “the gays are the chief rivals of God” is theologically problematic and has no basis in fact, theological or otherwise. Max apparently regards JLS’s responses as weird; I think they are creative bricollage.
Othodox theologians, popes and saints have most emphatically NOT been teaching what JLS wrote. You can find phrases and sentences form such materials in his posts, but JLS has chopped up valid sources, some secular sources and his own creativity to produce a casserole result which is not by any stretch of the imagination “orthodox.” “Orthodox” is “close to the whole teaching,” not chopped into pieces, cherry-picked and re-assembled.
PS: “Missals” are only used in Extraordinary Form Masses, and are durable books used year after year. The paperback booklets in the pews are “missalettes” used typically for half the liturgical year and then discarded. This is because we have “A,” “B” and “C” year lectionarys with different readings during each, and we have a large number of movable feasts whose celebration depends on the timing of Easter and the day of the week. All this makes it impractical to put readings for all possible Sunday Masses into a compact, re-usable missal.
PPS: Regarding your “typos”: Your posts are very readable and need no apology!
With unfaithful views like those of some sisters, no wonder many priests hold to the axiom, “If you don’t have a nun, don’t hire one; and if you do, hope she quits”
wow, such an axiom should really help young women pursue a religious vocation.
i wonder what the nuns in charge of institutions (e.g., hospitals, schools) think about hiring priests?
do they have a similar axiom?
Father Perozich: I went to 12 years of Catholic school and was taught by many fine religious sisters. I will mention one by name, Sister M. Donald, IHM. Sister Donald taught me in 5th Grade with 53 other students. She was 80 years old at the time and had been a religious sister for 60 years. I find your remark to be sexist. Sister Donald never quit.
Mark, my third grade teacher (Sr. Kathleen) taught us to “always think the best of people.”
I don’t think Father Richard’s comment is necessarily sexist, since he didn’t say why he wouldn’t hire a nun. He might have had in mind “If you don’t have a whistleblower, don’t hire one; and if you do, hope she quits.”
Mark from PA: You need to get a real man’s job and a life? Sexist? This is the best that you can do? It is about OBEDIENCE, something that Americans are afraid of and it is the only way to get into Heaven. These “nuns” are frauds and a disgrace. Why is it that we don’t have altar boys and very few young sisters. It is because the nuns quit being nuns, quit teaching in the Catholic schools, which in turned, are being closed, due to the high cost of lady teachers. Our Blessed Mother told Sister Mary of Agreda, back in the 1600’s, that the nuns that take of their habits and/or leave their convents, will share a fate far greater than Lot’s wife, when she DISOBEYED the Angel’s command and she turned and looked back. Is this the fate that you want for all of these disobedient “sisters”???? +JMJ+
Of course PA you find the the Father’s comments “sexist” because you a sensitive little man, I found the comment hysterical,, and I hope your offended by that,….the sooner these clipped hair ghouls retire or a tossed out the Church the better…
PA we are really, really tired of two things from you,, your constantly making gays to be victims, and your stories about your days in school,, who cares,, try being man and stop whining.
Mark from PA: Maybe you just illuminated us to why you are not orthodox in your theology. Fr. Perozich is speaking of the nuns who teach false doctrine; who teach contrary to Catholic teaching. His assessment is true for a majority of Catholic Schools in the Los Angeles area and the religious sisters who are in schools or parishes tend to be (what they refer to themselves as) progressive, or non-orthodox in their theology. It is obvious by reading your posts that when people with authority, i.e. priests and nuns teach false doctrine, the people believe and preach false doctrine. Your misunderstanding of human sexuality is the result of poor catechesis, and this is what Fr. Perozich is referring to. God Love You.
PA, once again you foul up the blog with lies and deception. The clear point being made is that some nuns teach false doctrine. Your raves about your nun teachers demonstrates that either they taught you false doctrine or that you disrespect them by falsifying doctrine now and crediting it to them.
Lies and deception? You don’t even know me JLS so how do know I am lying? Why would I name my teacher’s name if I was lying? I know your opinion of nuns. You come through loud and clear. I am just giving my personal opinion from my life experiences. You and others do the same. MD, Father Perozich was just making a joke. I found it more insulting than funny.
Whats the problem max was your liberal sensitivity sent afire by the good Father’s so called offensive comment. I know what he is talking about. At a parish that I was asked to leave from, a tolerance ridden clipped, pant suited valkrie ran the place like it was HER FIEFDOM. I did everything in my power to annoy and torment that woman. That’s where I tore down the rainbow flags and replaced (at my own expense) at painting of Our Lady and the Christ Child….She hit the roof with that one and threaten to have me arrested, I said go ahead. Of course nothing happened, that’s how you deal with these clipped fanatics and their up their lesbian feminazism …A little real masculinity puts them in their place, a friend my told me that a new pastor got her kicked out of the parish and the painting is still there….
oh, CANISIUS, this post from you is priceless:
“At a parish that I was asked to leave from…”
one gets the impression you have been kicked out of many parishies for being you.
“I did everything in my power to annoy and torment that woman.” what a joy you must be…
Call me a tormentor of liberals, and proud of it,, funny you had zero problem with the rainbow flag in house of Lord,, Yes I was asked two leave 2 pathetically liberal parishes one of which is now closed the other taken over by a very orthodox pastor, the place has been scrubbed of every last vestige of that tyrannical clipped haired “nun”..ha who got the last laugh on that one. I now have found a permanent home at a very traditional parish
Good for you, Canisius. You do not have to be violent about it, but the rainbow flag has no place in a church or anyother public building. It has become a symbol for indoctrination instead of tolerance. We should tolerant people’s different ethnic groups and skin color, but we do not have to tolerate every kind of behavior, especailly sexual behavior. I have known other people who have gotten those flags taken down peaceably or they refuse to deal at all with those organizations who will not take them down. Such a law forcing public areas to put them up is an unjust law. The icon of the Virgin and Child was a great replacement in a Catholic Church. Thank you for doing that, and tell the priest who backed you “Thank you” for me.
good for you CANISIUS — being a vindictive pain the butt is the essence of true catholicism.
as for the rainbox thing…AGAIN..if it promotoes homosexuality, that’s one thing, but children use rainbows all the time in their drawings, the bible uses it, and the italians use it for a symbol of peace.
GOD only know what the paranoid use it for.
Max I very please your attitude did not prevail at Lepanto,, the attitude of go along and get along
You probably had that nun shaking in her shoes. I can imagine that she never tried to cross you again.
Thank you for your wise posting.
Can anyone tell she is a Nun by the picture posted above?
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
I hope and pray that any “questions” asked during this conference receive orthodox and theological answers. If one does some web research into the leaders of the LCWR and the philosophy of some of the sisters who are not orthodox, you find some bizarre things. Not only do you find the defiance of Church teaching on abortion, female ordination and homosexuality, but I have seen a push for centering prayer and a worship of the earth. The Vatican wants the sisters to teach the true faith, not some new aged interpretation of what they perceive faith as. I just feel bad for all the wonderful and holy nuns who strive to be orthodox. I also find it funny that the nuns who are the least orthodox are the ones who do not wear habits. Is there any coincidence in that? I will let you decide. God Love You.
No, the question is not can one be Catholic and have a questioning mind(?) – the question is can one be Catholic and be disobedient(?). The answer to the latter is no. Throw them out.
Did these sisters forget their vows of OBEDIENCE?
It sounds like this religious woman was well schooled in the ‘Bernardin way’. I like the phrase she uses “nonviolent strategizing”. I wonder what ‘violent strategizing’ religious women look and act like? Tattoos? Chains? Knives? Harleys? Maybe armed with guns run across the border by Obama in a ‘Fast and Furious’ type operation?
Everyone throws around that cant phrase, “We must dialogue’ which is just a code for BS. IF these broads were even remotely honest, here’s what they would be saying…”We must have more BS, because we’re living a lie and have absolutely no respect for Jesus Christ or the Catholic Church. Most of us are lesbians and have no need or desire for a bridegroom. We intend to do things our way and we think the people who support us must be idiots.” Sorry if I don’t sound very respectful, but I personally do not think liars and pagans who live a lie under the guise of being faithful nuns deserve ANY respect, do you?
No, Dana, you don’t sound very respectful. It is a good thing that you didn’t have my 6th Grade teacher. She didn’t take any disrespect. She actually threw a friend of mine down a flight of stairs for laughing during choir practice. (In truth some of the sisters were overworked and took it out on the kids which I do not approve of.) So if you are angry because some of the nuns were too strict with you, I an sorry, but most nuns are good women who are faithful to their vows and doing the work of Christ.
Oh, Mark, I would have been very respectful of your teacher! ;o)
My dad said his principal (who I also had as a teacher) knocked two boys heads together and one time threw two boys down the cement steps in the gymnasium. Boys in my brothers class put a live mouse on a paper spindle on their teacher’s desk, so I can assure you that any punishment young men used to get was probably richly deserved. No one ever thought about revenge or getting even. We all had a wonderful sense of guilt and sin back then from spankings from our parents so teaching was much easier. And if we got in trouble at school, if our parents found out about it, we got it again at home. I’m glad to hear someone say something nice about the nuns they had as teachers. All I ever hear is whining about it…well, I can assure you, teachers in the public schools were much worse, and they can’t say they were overworked or frustrated because they weren’t married.
Well put, Dana.
I thought the original interview was disappointing. Terry Gross usually interviews musicians and artists, with a style that focuses on bringing out the interviewees’ early influences and how they develop their talents. That would probably have worked better than what actually transpired between the two. It seemed like Gross, not comprehending anything about vocation, stumbled through questions intended to evoke a controversial answer, and Sr. Pat carefully said as little as possible. If they had just talked about how Sr. Pat discerned her vocation and how her faith was formed, how today is the same or different than her expectations in the novitiate, that would have been much more interesting.
High point of the interview was when Gross asked something like “As you speak, it sounds like you are in a lot of pain,…” That was insightful, but she didn’t follow it up.
“How sister Pat discerned her discerned her vocation and how her faith was formed”
Spoken once again like a true modernist liberal. I seem to remember the many times that the liberals have blamed criminal behavior on the “environment” they were raised in and not on their criminal behavior.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
I think you’ve mis-interpreted (and mis-copied) what I wrote. I wrote about what I think might have been “interesting” because I don’t expect a “Fresh Air” interview to tell me anything true (in the sense of faith, not logic). Instead, what we got was an interviewer who had no idea what questions might reasonably elicit a response, and an interviewee who got only questions she was determined to avoid. That’s a pointless situation, and unless you think interviews that tell you nothing are somehow “tradition friendly” it has nothing to do with modernism or liberalism.
I can understand that men of your generation don’t listen to Fresh Air or anything else on NPR very often, so I can forgive you for not understanding what Terry Gross is good at: She is good at talking with people about what brought them to their current state of life or notoriety. Her personal worldview appears to be modern or post-modern and she doesn’t display any understanding of faith issues.
How people discern vocations and how their faith is formed ought to be of great interest to every Catholic, and I believe the usual Fresh Air format would have told us something about how this unfolded in Sr. Pat’s life. The number of vocations is way down, compared to a few decades ago. I think you would agree that formation hasn’t always worked out they way it’s supposed to.
Is you unhappiness with my comment simply that I refuse to pile on negative comments about Sr. Pat?
Yes Francis the vocations in the liberal orders are none existent, however the traditional orders (priest and nuns) are the ones with the new vocations, in time we will win and you modernists will lose
“we will win and you modernists will lose”
who knew there was a contest going on? sounds like those guys eating as many hot dogs as they can to wind a thousand bucks.
i thought JESUS founded his church so that we might be a light to the world – not a pain in the neck for each other. any potential convert coming in here will run away for the nearest bar!
Only a fool like you max could not notice not a contest but a war within the Church for the past 40 years. Modernist/liberals have done everything in their power to bring the Church to its knees. But the grey haired fools of Vatican 2 know they are losing, and when the times comes us traditionalist will be able to shut the windows that let the poisonous fumes in..
**what we got was an interviewer who had no idea what questions might reasonably elicit a response, and an interviewee who got only questions she was determined to avoid.** Duh, Francis, what do you expect from airhead liberals?
Well Francis I am positive you stand in the “Sister”s corner no doubt
I don’t know Sr. Pat personally, and I thought her answers in the interview were uninspiring.
I’ve met one of the “nuns on the bus” and hold her in very high respect, not because she’s riding on a bus but for her multiple tours of duty helping poor families in war-torn parts of Central America where other Catholic nuns were raped and killed.
I have a lot of respect for courage, and I pray that if I’m ever called to stand with the sisters, my courage will hold.
You are quite predictable, did you ask of them whether still hold True to the Catholic Faith and its teachings on morals ie abortion, gay marriage you know what I mean all those pet causes that you and rest of liberals scream about.. I will say this that majority of these so called nuns are old and dying off, and we won’t have to put up with their “non servium” for too much longer. And they are being replaced by young traditional/orthodox nuns who wear their habit in public, being a witness for Christ to the rest of us. They have deep love for souls and Our Lord, they are not caught in the “social justice” in the way you liberals have twisted it. When the last of this pathetic generation is put to rest we will see far holier nuns in their place… My dream a world without liberals
Canisius it seems that in your dream world, “orthodox” nuns will serve YOUR needs by wearing their habits and inspiring you to be a good Catholic. No point in them serving any needs but yours, eh? In your dream world you won’t have to worry about nuns serving the poor and you won’t be troubled by seeing our Lord, either: Matthew 25:38.
My mother always used to call them ‘heathens’. I think I’ll start using that term, as liberal is good word. A ‘liberal’ education is really a Catholic vision of real learning, isn’t it? And to be liberal in one’s giving is always generous and good, isn’t it? It’s like picking up the term ‘gay’. Not me! Never! Getting back to the so=called liberal types…they are cheats and frauds and do not deserve a good word like liberal. Heathen works for me.
DANA make sense to me in her discussion of the word “liberal.”
some of the synonoms for the term “liberal” are in the dictionary: beneficent, charitable, openhanded, munificent, unstinting, lavish. See generous. 10. See ample.
there are other definiations that have to do with politics and id3eology, but i think it’s sad to use such a good word in such a negative way.
GOD gives us a liberal dose of each his grace each day.
good word. in this sense.
FYI Francis for the past two lents I have volunteered my weekends serving the poor at the local soup kitchen run by the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal. I am willing to bet I give more to the poor than your liberal existence ever has….you may now remove the foot from your mouth
We both know (Mark 12:44, Luke 21:4) what Jesus said about people who think they give “more” than someone else.
I am very pleased to hear that your life is not all vinegar and venom! If both of us honor and participate in the social justice effort along with the entirely of our faith, why all the animosity?
Politics and rainbow flags aren’t present, and aren’t relevant to anyone at our local St. Anthony’s. Nobody ever asks the servers “whether [they] still hold True to the Catholic Faith and its teachings on morals ie abortion, gay marriage.” Their faith is obvious in their willingness to serve humbly.
Nobody asks the clients if they are gay nor whether they’ve torn down any rainbow flags, nobody asks if a couple is married or if their hungry children are born in wedlock. Families and individuals show up there because we offer them food and respect.
Because I believe in animosity Francis, your type has elevated so called “social justice” (the liberal version) over that of saving souls. Its good that you feed the hungry but I do not trust liberals in anything that they are engaged in, there is ALWAYS another modus operandi with liberals, because liberals are who they are. They take over institutions (churches, universities) and make them over in their own deformed image, you are moral cowards in that you champion “tolerance” over Truth and destroy traditions that have managed to hold society together, and you usually destroy such traditions in the name of equality. I will continue to tear down rainbow flags and confront liberals where ever I see one. What you call venom/vinegar I call strength
Does it really make more sense to “believe in animosity” as a starting point than to believe in the Faith as our starting point? Of course there will be animosity at times, but just as social justice is an important part of saving souls and not the whole of it, so too animosity to evil is part of Faith but by no means the whole of it.
Truly I think the power you ascribe to “liberals” is in fact the power you give them through your own animosity. There is no unified “liberal” front which coherently resists all you champion. The only thing coherent about what you call “liberalism” is your animosity. Of course it seems coherent, but only because you see wildly diverse, competing objectives through a single very narrow perspective.
Nancy Pelosi’s version, or Kathleen Sibelius’ version of liberal Catholicism are anything but traditional, yet they are totally different from anything you are likely to find among the LCWR-afiliated sisters (at least, among the ones I know personally). They are politicians serving the voters, not sisters consecrated to serving God.
So I hope you have greater faith in tradition, and take to heart Our Lord’s promise that “the gates of hell will not prevail against it,” no matter what your fears. Letting the sisters serve and respond to God’s call as they hear it won’t take one iota from you.
Soup without soul has little flavor. Jesus spent way more time speaking soul than serving soup, something on the order of hundreds to one.
The accusation by Francis that Canisius is boasting in himself flies in the face of what Canisius has maintained clearly in all his posts, which is that his boast is in Jesus. Humility is boasting in the glory of God, and a chief part of that glory is the salvation provided by Jesus. It is precisely this glory that the social service focused people tend to ignore and they in fact pump up their own credit lists and flaunt them to the poor souls receiving the temporal help.
Why is Francis so “sensitive” to hard treatment … is there some delicacy issue he has not told us about yet?
Francis, answer me this if liberal power within the Church is just some fantasy I have dreamed up, answer me this. Why the past 45 years when so called Catholic Politicians who have made a career out of opposing Church teaching on many issues (like the vile Ted Kennedy, Pelosi, SebillIus etc) not a single one of them have been denied communion at the very least, forget excommunication. How do entire so called Catholic Colleges have tenured professors in complete opposition to Church teaching with losing the college affiliation of being Catholic? How is it after 5 years of Summorum Pontificum do so many bishops block the Faithfuls requests for the Tridentine Mass in their respective dioceses? If you honestly believe are not corrupting power within the Church you living in a parallel world. .. Yes my dream a world without liberals, there ideology outlawed ,forbidden and tossed into ash heap of history
Catholic politicians: This is an example where you see a monolithic block which is not monolithic. Kennedy, Sibelius and others have not “opposed Church teaching.” They have acted to keep certain popular yet reprehensible behaviors legal. Pelosi is a different case, since she made statements about the faith which are not true (she would have had to understand them for these to be “lies”). Archbishop Niederauer publicly corrected her.
“Why haven’t [they] been denied communion?” Are you sure none of them have been denied communion, or were they just smart enough not to present themselves where they knew they would be denied? Furthermore, if the Church denied communion to any politician who failed to live out the faith in every way, no Catholic politician would be able to receive communion.
The real issue here is that you expect politicians who offend YOU to be tossed out and denied communion. Do you also expect Boehner to be denied communion because his budget flies in the face of Catholic teaching, or because actively attempts to prevent poor people from receiving government assistance? Should Gingrich be denied because of his marital misbehavior? How about Schwarzenegger — should he be excommunicated for his positions on abortion and his marital behavior?
thanks for sharing, CANISIUS.
when one meets you, should one genuflect, or merely bow?
The sisters have proved the Vatican’s report by their reaction to it.
K, it is exactly as you have said. If the nuns or sisters who are in trouble were teaching all the teachings of the Church instead of dissident teachings, they would not be in trouble with the Vatican in the first place. The Vatican has dialoged until it is “blue in the face” for decades now, and it seems it has now decided it is time for action, not words.
“And this mandate coming from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith putting us in a position of being under the control of certain bishops, that is not a dialogue.” Earth to Sister Pat Farrell. The Catholic church was set up by Jesus himself to be run like a Kingdom not a democracy nor a republic. It sounds to me as if you would be better off forming a new Protestant denomination or joining an existing one to have your needs met.
Too right, Tracy. A good social worker does the very same thing. These women are basically social workers with a fillup of religiosity so they can flit from one showy act of goodness to another, earning the praise and gratitude of their constituents, where the poor social workers gets nothing but complaints. Frankly, the only word that comes to mind is phony, utterly phony and unauthentic, but that just doesn’t seem strong enough. They’re like parodies of the humble and faithful nuns who lived truly sacrificial lives. These women live very worldly lives, playing the saintly nun role when everyone’s looking, all smiles and good works. The incredible examples of the Amish women that live all around me is truly a witness to real sacrificial love. They’re such faithful women to their families and husbands (who often don’t deserve them!) They run the family businesses, work in the garden, can, bake, etc. etc. and yet have a glowing happiness that radiates from their faces. My daughter-in-law was so impressed at the contentment they show. They have to be really smart and organized to make it all work, and of course, they all help one another out. My friend Mary is a rare one as she couldn’t have children. She’s happy, as her husband Joe is a terrific husband, but she just doesn’t have that vitality and vibrancy that the other women have. She’s also quite a bit of a thinker, and she spends time reflecting on things. There I go, off on another subject entirely. As you may have guessed, I’ve got ADD, and have learned to just go with the flow mostly, so if you wonder what the heck I’m talking about, that’s just how my mind works…if you call that working? ha
I know what you are talking about, Dana. I have two Amish cookbooks I bought when in Amish territory. The words of wisdom from the Bible and other sources in them are just great. The sayings in the books do not knock the Catholic Church or other denominations but just provide good proverbs for everyone, mainly for housewives. Many are humorous and are the Amish version of Erma Bombeck, a Catholic writer who wrote mainly for housewives, if you are old enough to remember her.
Since it is apparent that the LCWR is not going to conform to the Magisterium, I suggest the Vatican send the following to them on the first day of their forthcoming meeting, “You’re done.”
Well, once again we have Francis’ sense of man is robot … as my paraphrasing: If only the interview revealed the details of her vocational formation. Well, what difference does that make? None. She rebukes the Catholic faith. So what is the problem, some error in formation? Nonsense. She and her groupies decided to set up their own religion and they want to con the real Church out of … guess what … money. The irreverent feminist strut has a more descriptive term in Holy Scripture.
JLS, if Terry Gross would interview you, that would be radio worth a listen or two! You have a commendable ability to post completely fresh and unpredictable reactions to just about anything!
terry gross and JLS are out driniing brewksies at this very moment, discussing his conversion to the faith.
film at eleven.
max, that would be an interesting conjectural scenario to develop … in fictional format of course, for those who have difficulty tuning into reality.
If all the Nuns in LCWR and NETWORK do not comply fully with the Pope and Magisterium, and the teachings in the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”, they need to be EXCOMMUNICATED. Period. This grave scandal causes confusion and the loss of Souls. The Catholic Church is not a salad bar where you can pick and choose what you want to believe. Do not let these particular Nuns teach your children.
Thank you Mike, my thoughts exactly. After excommunicating the LCRW, its finally time for “catholic” politicians to go. Pelosi, Sebelius, Biden and Kerry, Cuomo and several others come to mind. Our Bishops by not doing anything except telling them not to receive communion are really just adding to the scandal.
You can find a lot of them (LCWRs)at the annual REC of the Archdiocese of Lost Angels!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
It’s time to excommunicate thest fake nuns.
And Sister Pat says….”In my mind I want to see if we can somehow, in a spirited, nonviolent strategizing, look for maybe a third way that refuses to define the mandate and the issues in such black and white terms.” Sister Pat, just say it in black and white! I hear the devils doublespeak. Who may get violent? Strategy? Such black and white terms? Refuses to define? Wow. Once again I am challenged in myself, because all I want to say is, get the he__ out of the catholic church and don’t let the door hit………you all know the rest of the sentence. Tired I am of all this defiance. Off to confession I go, a less than tolerant catholic!
Sr Pat has the same manner of rhetoric as found in “Peace Circle” on Youtube. Push enough of her buttons and kablohwee.
Carolyn, I just read something really relevant on tolerance. Think about it. We’re not called to be tolerant. That is a secular term. Jesus said we are to love one another. No where will you find tolerance in the Bible. We’re to be intolerant of sin, phoniness, sham religion, liars, murderers…anything that steals souls and leads them to hell. Tolerance is what permits sin. No, I am never going to confession because I was intolerant of sin and got angry about it. It’s how we handle our anger. We don’t lash out but we should try to do something about what caused our anger if we can, don’t you think? I often think of Catherine of Sienna—she really hated sin, and the people around her heard about it! People should go to mass because they WERE tolerant of things when they should have addressed it. Sins of omission.
So Sister Patty Cakes runs to PBS to pass her crap off to gain sympathy from the rest of the Pelosi-ites. I certainly hope she is instructed to review her vows and beliefs taken with a completely free will many many years ago. If she doesn’t want to keep them for any reason whatsoever then leave as so many more honest women have done in the past. Each and every member in her control should be given the same opportunity.
Sisters, come home to the Church that Jesus gave you, repent, put your habits back on and return to the convents where you will have a community to help to keep you safe from the evil one or at least, admit that you are not real nuns and that, just like Lot’s wife, you will do your own thing to show God just who is boss. Of course, as Our Blessed Lady told Blessed Mary of Agreda, back int the 1600’s, that their punishment will be far greater than the hers. The choice is easy, Heaven or hell. +JMJ+
First of, the Vatican is not teaching the true Faith. The Mass has been changed for convience and so as not to offend anybody. What really needs to happen is the church needs to abandon Vatican 2 and revert back to the ” True ” Latin Mass and the True Church. The church then need to re-ordain anybody that has been ordained since approx. 1960. Then the church needs to re-educate itself, it’s preists, and nuns in regards to what GOD and Christ require of it and us. The church also needs to locate and expel all the freemasons, and other unknown and known factions that are trying to destroy the church from the inside.
oh, great, more kookiness:
“The church then need to re-ordain anybody that has been ordained since approx. 1960.”
yeah, that will solve all our problems…
max, sedevacantists believe that any priest ordained since the rite of ordination changed were not validly ordained and as such their Masses are not valid. That may be why he says to reordain them. I’m not saying that Mr. Malham is a sedevacantist but some of the thinking of Traditionalist Catholics have leaked into the “indult” mass community and, also, the pro-life movement.
k, thanks for explaining PHIL’S strange post.
it’s strange that a hierarchical church like ours has so many anarchists in it!!!
every kook with a computer thinks he can define what is truly catholic – except me, o fcourse. :)
Yes, it would be a “little kooky” to reordain every priest who was ordained after Vatican II. I certainly would not go that far.
GOD help us in the choices we face as voters!
WHY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES NOT RECOGNIZE MORMOM “BAPTISM” –
“In addition to the two essential elements, however, the person performing the baptism must intend what the Catholic Church intends in order for the baptism to be valid. In other words, when he baptizes “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,” he must mean in the name of the Trinity (not of three separate deities, as the Mormons do), and he must intend to bring the person being baptized into the fullness of the Church.
“Since Eastern Orthodox and Protestant denominations meet the two essential elements as well as have the proper intention, their baptisms are considered valid by the Catholic Church.”
So if Mitt Romney wins the election, will he be the first unbaptized President?
Some interesting observations in some posts here ought to be looked into. Terry Gross is paid by NPR (National Public Radio). NPR has now hired lobbyists … money bags from Congress obviously is the goal. So, Farrell is chumming up with NPR? Aha, a new source of money, making LCWR independent of Church funding. How interesting these coincidences often turn out!!!
Canisius God bless your soul! I really enjoy your strong convictions, comparing to what I have to see daily here in California, its refreshing to read comments that hold conviction and backbone! You are definitely not lukewarm that is for sure!
just an idea: if sister pat were wearing one of the traditional habits, especially the ones where the headdress jutted out, she wouldn’t have to squint into the sun so much.
nor would she have to worry about skin cancer.
Now that is good thinking Max. Traditional habits do have their medical and secular benefits besides being modest. Although, I think going back to the habit of “the flying nun” would be a little too much for our day. Also, long white habits, just as long light-colored skirts are most often more cooling than a pair of shorts because the material keeps the sun off the skin while allowing air to circulate to the body. Why else do any of you think that the Lord Jesus and the people of his time and the bedouins now days wear layers of long-sleeved robes in the hot desert? Because they are cool and keep the hot sun off the skin. Of course the sleeves are very loose for the desert. There is a time for modest shorts, though, for certain expeditions to allow more freedom of movement.
My first question is
what happened to your traditional habit?
Begone heretics ! They want “dialogue”-in other words they want to change Church teaching on homosexual genital relations,ABC,abortion,so-called same-sex “marriage” and the In Personae Christae male priesthood.
They’ve been poisoned by radical feminism and have done untold damage to generations of Catholics.
I was taught by fully habited ORTHODOX Ursulines who drilled the Catechism into my soul-between them and my Mother and primarily Jesus my Faith is rock solid and I rejoice in my obedience to the Body of Christ His Church.
They’ll all be dead soon and can argue with God.May he have Mercy on their souls.
Funny how the orthodox nuns Orders are flourishing with YOUNG CATHOLIC WOMEN.
Capital H-for “HE”