Cardinal Joseph Zen Ze-kiun has said Pope Francis’ recent declaration allowing the blessing of same-sex couples under certain conditions “creates confusion” and has suggested that its author, Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, should resign or be dismissed.
In a statement published Jan. 23 on his blog, Cardinal Zen said the declaration Fiducia Supplicans contains numerous passages in need of clarification and “leaves many questions unanswered,” according to an unofficial translation.
The 92-year-old Hong Kong cardinal emeritus highlighted in particular how the declaration appeared to him to condone sexual behavior in same-sex relationships by implying such a relationship has an “intrinsic goodness,” and can “mature” and “grow.”
Noting how the declaration appears to be similar to Pope Francis’ response to one of five dubia that the cardinal and four other cardinals sent last summer, in which they sought clarification on same-sex blessings, Cardinal Zen said Fiducia Supplicans (“Supplicating Trust”) makes the claim that “same-sex sexual love is ‘similar’ to marital love!”
“This is an absolute subjective error,” he said. “According to objective truth, that behavior is a grave sin and can never be good.”
The cardinal asked that if Cardinal Fernández, as prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, “is committing a heresy by claiming a serious sin as ‘good,’ then shouldn’t the prefect resign or be dismissed?…”
From Edward Pentin in the National Catholic Register
One cannot justify a blessing of what cannot be blessed. We add Cardinal Zen to the list of Catholic intellectuals who are beacons of light and truth.
People can be blessed. There’s nothing wrong with blessing people.
Pretty bad when a Cardinal in the Church can’t understand a simple document on blessings.
pretty bad: He understands it’s pretty bad.
Right. It’s actually rather simple. No need to read from a book. The priest must improvise, like he does at Mass. He just needs a timer to make sure the blessing lasts less than 10 seconds. Then the happy couple (I mean single individuals coming as a couple, but it is not the couple that is blessed, it’s the individuals who are couple. It’s obvious, isn’t it?) is off to Sodom and Gomorrah for their honeymoon.
“Pretty bad when a Cardinal in the Church can’t understand a simple document on blessings.” It seems that Cardinal Zen should have asked you, who apparently has the superior intellect, for advice. Or does the Cardinal see a complexity in the document that you somehow missed? I wonder.
Pretty bad when Church leaders sre corrupt, and lie and mislead you, and commit serious sins. Don’t accept their terrible lies and sins. Do not attend wrongful, sinful clergy blessings in your church, of gays and those in irregular relationships. First, those people should be told to repent. Respect God.
pretty bad, have you read the document? It’s not simple and clear. Do you believe that sex outside of marriage (which is one woman and one man) is seriously sinful?
Yes.
Yes to both?
I thought first question was rhetorical but I am re-reading it to see what you mean.
The yes was to conformity to Catholic teaching on human sexuality.
I thank you for your question because I read it much more carefully. It is more than just a document that says you can bless a gay couple.
It is about blessings. It is rich and deep and biblical and orthodox.
The difference between things that come from the official sources that God has given us vs regular Catholics is profound.
I felt like I was reading Pope Benedict XVI when I was reading it.
I speculate that if Cardinal Zen had been the prefect, he would have written the same things.
The people don’t do it. The Lord does. We are all just instruments in the hands of God.
Charisms ⇡
799 Whether extraordinary or simple and humble, charisms are graces of the Holy Spirit which directly or indirectly benefit the Church, ordered as they are to her building up, to the good of men, and to the needs of the world.
800 Charisms are to be accepted with gratitude by the person who receives them and by all members of the Church as well. They are a wonderfully rich grace for the apostolic vitality and for the holiness of the entire Body of Christ, provided they really are genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit and are used in full conformity with authentic promptings of this same Spirit, that is, in keeping with charity, the true measure of all charisms.
801 It is in this sense that discernment of charisms is always necessary. No charism is exempt from being referred and submitted to the Church’s shepherds. “Their office [is] not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to what is good so that all the diverse and complementary charisms work together “for the common good.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
Pretty bad that this document was issued without consulting the cardinals and bishops on how this would be received by the faithful and our separated brethren whom we claim we want to reconcile with.God bless this brave and holy cardinal who speaks with truth and clarity.
Humanae Vitae
James Martin misunderstands it too, just in a different way.
That cardinal should have his theological credentials revoked.
The pope and Tucho have explained time and again that a sinful union is not being blessed. Fiducia Supplicans is a thoroughly orthodox document.
Liar, liar, pants on fire. Liars all. Masters of deception. Just like the Snake in the Garden of Eden.
” a sinful union is not being blessed. ” So when a gay couple asks for a blessing, does FS specifically require the cleric to bless them individually and separately, as individuals and not as a couple, to the end that the couple would then as a couple commit to chastity? I cannot find such language in FS which, if it exists, would at least clarify matters and would characterize the document as orthodox. That’s why I like the post of Anon99 January 28, 2024 at 7:13 pm about the need for vetting the document among the bishops before publication. If/since the language is ambiguous the pope and Tucho can pour into the language any interpretation they want. So can James Martin S.J., and anyone else. Before revoking credentials we ought to consider that perhaps FS was hastily and thus badly written, unless the ambiguity is calculated to “make a mess.” If that was the intent, the pope and Tucho succeeded grandly.
In preparing the document, the Dicastery, as is its practice, consulted experts, undertook a careful drafting process, and discussed the text in the Congresso of the Doctrinal Section of the Dicastery. During that time, the document was discussed with the Holy Father. Finally, the text of the Declaration was submitted to the Holy Father for his review, and he approved it with his signature.
While the subject matter of this document was being studied, the Holy Father’s response to the Dubia of some Cardinals was made known. That response provided important clarifications for this reflection and represents a decisive element for the work of the Dicastery. Since “the Roman Curia is primarily an instrument at the service of the successor of Peter” (Ap. Const. Praedicate Evangelium, II, 1), our work must foster, along with an understanding of the Church’s perennial doctrine, the reception of the Holy Father’s teaching.
Presentation Fiducia Supplicans On the Pastoral Meaning of Blessings
In addition there have been interviews with both Cardinal Fernandez and Pope Francis which clarify.
“…the Dicastery, as is its practice, consulted experts,..” All this begs the question– which experts? Was Cardinal Zen, for example, consulted, or just the pope’s yes men? It would be good to know. Also, interviews cannot substitute to explain the intended meaning of the text. The text itself must carry sufficient clarity on its own.
I can’t give you permission to pick and choose Catholic teaching.
You have free will.
I don’t think it is okay to post your doubts online. You could harm souls.
“I can’t give you permission …” I don’t need your permission to voice a legitimate concern. And your assertion is circular. At issue is this: what is Catholic teaching? If FS contains ambiguity, it is no sin to point this out as that ambiguity itself creates doubt on what really is Catholic teaching. Cardinal Zen goes much further, I might add.
What paragraph, what sentence, what word do you not understand?
“What paragraph, what sentence, what word do you not understand?” I have been more than clear on this. The sentences are clear enough. But they gjve rise to various interpretations–that is the problem.
What paragraph?
I gave you a thumbs up but it appeared as a 2. Now it disappeared.
Yes. Cdl. Tucho should definitely have his theological credentials revoked, and all his works, and dirty books should be destroyed. Same with Abp. Paglia, the head of the PAL– Pontifical Academy for Life– who personally commissioned his homoerotic fresco, in his cathedral, paid for with parishioners’ money. Liars, deceivers, cheaters to Christ, Judas snakes. Excommunicate and laicize both.
What has Cardinal Zen done to deserve the title “hero-martyr”?
Mr. Kong, Standing up for the underground Church in China and being arrested and jailed at age 90 are a couple of reasons that readily come to mind.
But he was in jail for only one day…..
Your ignorance speaks volumes, that you are ignorant of this good and holy man should be a source of shame and embarrassment to yourself.
Anon99: Are you comparing his virtues to that of someone like Cardinal Kung, who was imprisoned for 30 years? Or maybe you hold Cardinal Zen in such high regards because his support for the Tridentine Mass. The late Cardinal Kung had no such luxury to prepare fancy pork dishes.
Cardinal Kung was not mentioned in the article, I can hold both him and Cardinal Zen as holy men to be respected and honored. Your reference to pork dishes is strange as your comments and reasoning show your obsession for red herring.
I do not see anything on his wikipedia page that would make him a hero-martyr in the Catholic Church.
If you are using Wikipedia as a credible source in any exchange you are lazy and a fool. That you cannot research and find a better source then this flawed and easily manipulated platform shows your gullibility and naivete.
Then instead of ad hominem attacks, give the info.
Ah…I see the People’s Communist Party agents are looking in…welcome. You have much to learn comrade..
People forget how good God is.
He told you to bless your enemies.
He told you to do that to be like Him.
Not that gay people are his enemies but you understand what I mean.
God is not going to tell you to love and bless everyone if He Himself does not do it.
I am glad that Cardinal Zen is making this statement. I am also glad that even though Fiducia Supplicans has created questions and confusion if a gay or lesbian or transsexual or some other “couple” who are not free to marry heterosexuals (as in people who are already married and do not have an annulment or some other case) I can bless them individually and challenge them to follow the will of God in their lives and not their own “self will”.
The same would go for any other habitual sinner, like a drug user, an alcoholic, someone addicted to porn or anything else.
Maybe we need to stop seeing people as “sin on legs.”
IF Fiducia Supplicans is orthodox, then it is unnecessary. Priests have always been able to bless individuals. This includes persons engaged in an adulterous affair, but, they are not blessed as a “couple.” Should we bless a gang of human traffickers as a gang? We may pray with and bless individual gang members who seek such. Should we bless ISIS or Hamas as groups? No, we should bless and pray with a repentant terrorist, however. Why, when it comes to sexual sin, are the teachings of Christ and common sense so apparently easily discarded? Love, pray for and bless individual persons. As the Vatican stated not long ago, sinful behavior cannot be blessed.
It was necessary as a doctrinal instruction to halt the advance of some episcopal conferences or bishops pushing for same-sex weddings or other same-sex liturgical blessings. FS makes it clear in no uncertain terms that such movements should stop immediately. FS wasn’t necessary for the giving blessings part; it was necessary for the “same-sex unions can never be officially or liturgically solemnized” part.
Then, why say they may be blessed as a “couple?” Since one cannot bless their union/coupleness, a priest could simply continue to bless those individuals. No need for another document. If the Vatican wanted to stop blessings of same-sex unions, they could deal directly with the German bishops, James Martin and others. Why a confusing document to the whole world?
The Vatican moves fairly quickly, decisively and clearly (even if they don’t give any reasons) sometimes; like with Cardinals Muller and Burke and Bishop Strickland. They could do the same with the German bishops, if they wanted to.
Catholics equate marriage with sex because sex is reserved for marriage. Secular people, gay people who don’t reserve sex for marriage don’t equate marriage with sex.
Marriage is more of a lifetime commitment, usually exclusive but not always. It is about being there for someone and taking care of someone.
I would imagine for a lot of gay and lesbian couples the sex is just a small part of it (as it really is in most Catholic married couples).I assume many could do well at chastity if it was properly proposed to them and the spiritual benefits were explained to them.
The objective of FS is obvious. It is a direction to celibacy for all who are not joined in sacramental or natural marriage. Any ‘couple’ presenting themselves for a blessing are to be explicitly admonished to chastity and celibacy and an appeal to God for the grace to do so is to follow. Done. Shouldn’t take more than a minute.
Exactly. That’s what most people seem to be missing. The number of couples who would qualify for a blessing under the terms of FS is extremely small. If any couple in a sinful relationship is seeking any legitimization of their relationship, the blessing is not to be given.
From Crises Magazine(Anne Hendershott):
” In the latest Vatican declaration on blessings for same sex couples, Pope Francis has warned priests that they may not cast moral judgment on same-sex couples who ask for a blessing from them, preferring a “pastoral approach” that refrains from teaching about the immorality of same-sex acts or extra-marital sexual relationships. ”
asdf, you may be mistaken if what Hendershott writes is accurate. I have not found any language in FS answering to your view of it. If I am missing something, do tell.
It is a very anti-Francis, anti-Jesuit article.
That was stuck in there to harm his reputation which is a serious sin.
“That was stuck in there to harm his reputation which is a serious sin.” I am not sure what the referent to “that” is in the beginning of your second sentence. If Francis expressed a desire that clerics accompany couples pastorally in the manner that Hendershott reported, then how is this harming the pope’s reputation? It is merely shedding light on his intentions in FS. That directive to priests should stand as the mind of Francis on this important issue of how to bless those in irregular unions.
She harms the Pope’s reputation by lying about him.
You talk a lot about FS so I assume you have read it.
Tell me the paragraph where he warns priests that they may not cast moral judgements on same sex couples (or anyone else)
“She harms the Pope’s reputation by lying about him.” I assume you have interpreted her commenting on the advice Pope Francis gave to priests which I then referenced. But I never said her reporting on this advice came from FS. In fact I am sure it did not. Here is the full quote from Hendershott’s article: (https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/pope-francis-is-the-pope-he-was-waiting-for)
“It is clear which side the pope is on. In the latest Vatican declaration on blessings for same sex couples, Pope Francis has warned priests that they may not cast moral judgment on same-sex couples who ask for a blessing from them, preferring a “pastoral approach” that refrains from teaching about the immorality of same-sex acts or extra-marital sexual relationships. ”
Unfortunately Anne does not specify which is the latest Vatican declaration. I see nothing of this language in FS, the relevant sections beginning at section 31. If any reader has insight on this, it would be helpful. And thank you sir/madame, for calling out Anne Hendershott. If she is interpreting the pope’s words or written statements unfairly this certainly should be brought to light.
I have had priests like that and they make you want to join a different church. (I was not in an irregular marriage but just asking questions.)
It really doesn’t cost anything to be kind.
Make sure they have a Bible, rosaries for each member of the family. instructions on how to pray it.
I just saw a short on Youtube with Bishop Sheen talking about how to defeat the devil with the Holy Name of Jesus, the invocation of the Blood of Christ and devotion to Mary.
Make an appointment to see them again. Ask them to bring their questions about the Faith.
They know they are a state of sin. Teach them the Act of Contrition. Give them a green scapular.
Don’t be so slothful.
Have you heard James Martin, Cardinal Fernandez or the Pope emphasize chastity?
Chastity is for all; straight, gay or otherwise.
Yes, it is.
Always has been. Always will be. But there is also this:
Question 3: Why don’t you speak more about chastity?
Father Martin commented that he does in fact discuss chastity in nearly every presentation. He underscored that he is “living chastity” through his Jesuit vows for over 30 years. Father Martin also mentioned that nearly all Catholics, including LGBT Catholics are familiar with the church’s teaching on celibacy and chastity as it relates to homosexuality. In responding to this question, Father Martin described his focus on other areas of ministry that he believes are overlooked such as “how to invite LGBT people to see themselves as loved by God, how to show respect and welcome to LGBT people in Catholic parishes and schools, how we can combat the high incidence of suicide among LGBT youth, and so on.”
This is a from an article on his Youtube video on 5 questions about LGBTQ ministry.
The Church used to have good theologians. Where did they go?