The following are excerpts from a Sept. 1 story in the Washington Post. A link to the full story is provided below.
For the typical American Catholic, seeing Cardinal Tim Dolan, the country’s top bishop, give the closing prayer at the GOP convention was the big political event of the summer. But for Catholics who know how the church really operates in Washington, something far more significant went down last week: John Carr retired.
For the past quarter-century, Carr has been the most important policy adviser to the country’s Catholic bishops, their Karl Rove on everything from health care to clergy sex abuse. He describes himself as “a 62-year-old, white, round, church bureaucrat,” but Carr’s career is a road map for how Catholicism and politics have mixed in Washington for a generation.
The former seminarian has been lauded by U2 singer Bono for successfully pressing Third World debt relief on Capitol Hill and has challenged Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), a Catholic, for not demanding more financial sacrifice from middle-class Americans in order to help the poor. When the head of the church’s key mental-health facility for clergy was dying of AIDS in the late 1980s, Carr negotiated how to make the news public. When the Hill’s top poverty advocates were desperate during last year’s budget talks to save assistance programs for the poor, Carr led the effort.
“I’m just so used to John being our leader,” Rabbi David Saperstein, the Reform Jewish movement’s longtime D.C. representative, said last week after describing what he called Carr’s role in convincing a major senator of the impact of climate change on the world’s poor. Carr, it turned out, wasn’t actually at that meeting. But that’s the way it is with Carr — he’s been so influential for so long that sometimes Hill faith lobbyists just assume his involvement in key events.
When a small group of prominent faith advocates organized a good-bye dinner last week for Carr, they intentionally picked “the Captain’s Room” at Ruth’s Chris Steak House.
The mixing of religion and politics engenders powerful passions, but insiders know that faith advocates typically aren’t players in Washington. Carr is one of the few exceptions. But his influence is only part of the reason Carr’s exit Friday is being mourned. Some are also concerned about who will come after him.
At a time when Catholics are watching their community become increasingly polarized along political lines, Carr is considered a dying breed: a Catholic moderate with a foot firmly in both camps. He worked for the White House Conference on Families under President Jimmy Carter and was a Democratic candidate. He has also zealously slammed the Obama White House for its mandate that employers provide contraception coverage to employees. At a good-bye event this week at the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops headquarters, Carr’s voice sounded angriest when he bemoaned the Bush-led Iraq War.
Catholics are becoming more divided over whether they focus on church teachings against war and poverty or the ones against abortion and gay marriage. Catholic progressives are particularly worried about Carr leaving as Church officialdom in recent years has put greater and greater emphasis on defending the unborn.
“If John Carr hadn’t been there for the past 20 years, who knows what would have happened?” said John Gehring, who focuses on Catholic issues for the left-leaning advocacy group Faith in Public Life and often clashes with the bishops…
To read the full story, click here.
There worried about who will replace him! True Catholics have the same concerns but for different reasons. Will a CATHOLIC dedicated to the restoration of His Church in America replace him or will a Carr clone or worse replace him?
The Church needs to take strong stands against the Devil’s attacks. Better no replacement than an appeaser!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Mr. Fisher I agree. The sad thing is that these are Catholics of today, they are Catholic, unfortunately. This is probably the first time I have ever heard of Mr. Carr. Maybe I have but I can’t recall knowing much about him. But the way the church has being going, I can’t say I will miss something I didn’t know of. I read more about him, I wasn’t impressed.
Mr. Fisher, I agree.
His next stop is reported to be to Catholic Univ of America ‘to “launch a program” at the CUA’s Center on Catholic Social Teaching and Public Engagement’
Perhaps CUA needs a ‘visitation’.
CUA NEEDS CONVERSION!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
A USCCB social justice adviser just seems like being the cheerleader for the Democrat party within the Church. Liberal “Catholics” better start worrying about the state of their souls and less about getting Obama reelected.
For the most part, liberal Catholics don’t believe a loving God will send anyone to Hell! A true Bishop, the late great Bishop Austin Vaughan told me that when we were discussing his fellow bishops; but he also said, “Ken that is silly because why would Our Lord have gone through the HELL he went through to save people from a place nobody goes to”. Bishop Vaughan was a wise Bishop!
Now that I think of it, I am fairly certain Carr has been a speaker at the annual dissent fest, REC.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
The Holy Spirit IS watching over the Catholic Church despite the horrible mess she has allowed herself to get into. It is truly a miracle that Cardinal Carlo Martini was NEVER elected pope, as he would have hastened the breakup of the Church, and would have made things even more liberal and heretical than they already are. Recently I read that basically the American bishops are backing Obama for re-election, and are not in favor of the Republican candidates. May Almighty God have mercy on the USCCB if Obama wins a second term. They will be more guilty than the Austrian heirarchy who allowed Hitler to take over Austria. The American bishops will also be contributers of abortion, contraception, old age killing, and the destruction of both marriage and the family if they do not radically change their direction and support the imperfect Republican party. The voice of the Amjerican Catholic Church has been for the past 50 years, the left wing of the democratic party. As a result, the Church here is falling apart, and our nation is being destroyed. The devil indeed seems to be having a field day. Hopefully a decent advisor will be appointed to take Carr’s place, so the restoration of Christian morality and western civilization can take place
Fr. Karl,
Amen.
Thank you very much Father Karl for summing up the truth. Mr. Carr is the retiring influencer of many bishops. Jesus Christ should have been their Main Influencer. The word influence can also mean to charm or to tempt as in the serpent influencing Eve and then in turn Eve influenced Adam.
Mr. Carr is described in the above article a “a *moderate* with a foot firmly planted in BOTH camps.” The USCCB has neglected to listen to Christ, to obey Christ and to uphold the teachings of Christ’s Church by their own neglecting to teach that no man can *lukewarmly* serve two masters. These moderate influencers and those who were charmed, tempted and influenced will STILL be vomited out. There is nothing new under the sun.
He is the lobbyist of the bishops, not the influencer of the bishops.
Anonymous,
Please read the title of the article. Adviser = Influencer
OK I see where you got that now. The original headline called him “Catholic policy advisor” which I took to mean he advised the people on the Hill of Catholic social teaching. The letter to the bishops on his retirement is online, but the job description for his replacement is not. It would make sense if he advised the bishops on what legislation was coming up. I don’t think he advised the bishops on what their positions should be, but I don’t know all the ins and outs. His department works under the Committee which is made up entirely of bishops. The article focuses on his influence in Washington. The sentence in the article that jumped out at me was: “Faith advocates typically aren’t players in Washington. Carr was the exception.” It says a lot about how we-as the laity- really need to step up as individuals. We have a better chance of being heard than any of the lobbyists from a faith group.
“OK I see where you got that now.”
k, Is that a little slip up? I was answering anonymous and you responded to me as if you were the poster who uses the name anonymous. k, Do you also post by the name anonymous too?
Catherine, yes I have something that cleans my computer and when I don’t fill in the name, it will post as anonymous. It confuses me too.
Catherine, please reassure me that you understand that BOTH camps are Catholic and a person serves Christ by caring and working for BOTH, because they are not two camps-“they” are the Gospel and it is one. A person who gave 20 + years of his life to this service would certainly not be considered lukewarm. The opposite would be true.
“Please reassure me that you understand that BOTH camps are Catholic and a person serves Christ by caring and working for Both” “A person who gave 20 years + years of his life to this service would certainly not be considered lukewarm.”
k, Please reassure me that you understand that Joe Biden also uses that same explanation.
Amen, Catherine! Also, I do wish he didn’t advertise the fact that he’s a Catholic so vociferously. He’s certainly passionate about chains and slavery, however, we must grant him that! Poor man.
Joe Biden is pro-choice, Catherine. I am surprised you did not know that.
Father Karl, there are only 260 or so bishops. That is not enough votes to make a difference. Very few Catholics pay any attention at all to what the bishops say. No bishop can tell Catholics who to vote for. We are not bound to obey them if they did. They do not have much of an impact on the election results. People vote for their own reasons. We are not puppets of the bishops. There are 4 main styles of voting decisions. There are people who always vote party. There are people who study all the issues and weigh their decision very carefully. There are the “fast and furious voters” who have one issue or maybe two that drives their vote (like abortion or the war or gay marriage or jobs) and they vote for the candidate who agrees with them on that one issue. Then there are some people who vote because of another person’s opinion-whether it is a celebrity or their mom or a college professor or a bishop. It’s probably the lowest proportion of the voting populace who does that.
You forgot about warts, psoriasis and traffic jams.
Father Karl,
if this true of what you read, how can we the lay faithful fire the American Bishops who are backing up Obama? You are right about Cardinal Carlo, I praise God that he stopped him from becoming Pope. When I heard of the news of his death and what he said to divide the church, it broke my heart! I am still not over it! I pray for justice…..
Father Karl, where did you read that? I certainly do believe it, but would love to see it documented so that I can expose it on my own blog.
How can this be? How can ANY bishop vote for obama? What kind of men are they? What kind of shepherd? How absolutely appalling!
Dana there are rumors but lets not let the rumors tear us down, there are still a few faithful ones, I look for them for encouragement. God bless you.
What caught my attention is that it says that the church is divided “Catholics are becoming more divided over whether they focus on church teachings against war and poverty or the ones against abortion and gay marriage.”
To me this is an easy one, we will always have the poor with us, God will help us take care of the poor but the ones against abortion and gay marriage that is an easy one. I know where I stand on that, fortunately God’s graces help with knowing our priorities.
It is not a sin to be poor but embracing sinful lifestyles is. The poor have the potential to get to heaven but an unrepentant homosexual may not.
Abortion is the murder of an innocent child and the murder of the spirit of the woman who choose to participate, homosexual lifestyles are the murder of the dignity of a human being, nearly spiritually dead in obtaining sanctifying grace.
If they are divided it is because of the church leadership’s flaky ways to not properly lead Christ’s flock! To many scandals from church leadership have been causing division!
Good-bye Carr, don’t let the door slam on your back-side as you leave and now if we can only get rid of the USCCB and it’s over 500 bureaucrats and get the bishops back to the business of salvation and being re-united with Rome, we just might be able to stay off the Coming Day of the Lord, of which, will not a a fun day. For 6000 years climate change has been with us. +JMJ+
Good comments JMJ
Carr says that the church is polarized. Social Justice vs anti abortion and marriage issues. The anti abortion and marriage issue people are also for the social justice issues. We want to help the poor. The poor are being helped all day long. Can you say the same thing about the social justice people. Not really. Many of them have turned a deaf ear to abortion and marriage issues. Many of them support abortion and gay rights. Just look at other article about Loretta Sanchez. Look at how abortion and contraception is pushed to the poor by Planned Parenthood and Melinda Gates etc. There are many special collections are there for the poor in this country and over seas. Where is the special collection to prevent abortion. How many are signing up for NFP in your parish. In California they don’t even report the number of abortions. Why have the social justice people given up on abortion and marriage issues.
Since when was the protection of traditional marriage and the lives of the unborn NOT a social issue ? I’d say they should be ranked ahead of the so-called social issues because they are more critically close to the gift of life itself. This argument should never take place – if the bishops were doing their jobs and teaching the faith. The fact is, they have been swept into national politics as a consequence of their preference for being on the news at 6. The USCCB needs basic reform, aligning them with their leadership role in the Church, even if it means they don’t get the fame they presently lust after.
Isn’t it too bad that when a person who has devoted his life to getting the teachings of the Catholic church into the public square decides to retire so many people say “thank God”. Why is there so much hate among us for people that mean to do the Lord’s work. The old saying must be true – no good dead goes unpunished. This man has been the leader of the Christian faith lobby in Washington for years. Think of how bad things would be if he and his aids were not fighting our battles. He can’t win every argument and he should not be villified for those losses. I have never heard of him or met him, but the article was enough to convince me that I should lhank him for his good work.
The problem seems to be the false perception of a dichotomy and polorization of war/poverty concerned catholics and abortion/gay marriage concerned catholics. Catholics are concerned with the whole fabric of society, every person, every country. The right to life is paramount. The true call of Catholics is to pray and work for the will of God to be done in all things.
Bob One wrong once again, all liberal Catholics should not only be vilified but confronted, challenged and eventually tossed out of the Church en masse. I have had it with your entire genaration and your mantra’s of tolerance and dialogue. It is the John Carr kind that is responsible for the wholesale loss of Faith and auto destruction of the Catholic Church
Just think of how strong the Church in America would be without such Bureaucrats as Carr!
“There are none so blind as those who eyes but will not see, and those who have ears, but will not hear” Our Lord Jesus Christ.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Bob one hate….well all I can say is that not all hate is bad. One can hate the great evils and scandals that are before us, one can hate ice cream, when we define hate…it may not be hate we see but perhaps scandal and scandal causes reaction…not always pleasant I suppose. Sorry you feel that way….
I am so heartened by the previous comments. It is great to read the words of other Catholics who clearly see what is really going on in the Church.
You’re in the right place, Candace! Peace be unto you!
A good start would be someone who unequivocally follows the doctrines, disciplines and laws of the universal Church.
For those interested: An article on USCatholic shows just how hard they are taking it. It also contains a link to a letter from Cardinal Dolan to Rep. Paul Ryan concerning the budget.
It could all be stopped if the Pope, along with all the Bishops of the world consecrated Russia (not the world) to the Immaculate Heart as She requested at Fatima. Why has that simple request not been acted upon?
Barbara, what could be stopped?
The consecration was performed as requested by JPII and the bishops of the world in 1984, and Sister Lucia confirmed in writing that it had. The Holy See itself is on record that the consecration HAS been done and HAS been confirmed by Lucia, but there has arisen a claque of conspiracy theorists who doggedly insist it has not been done, and who proffer all sorts of ludicrous explanations for Sister Lucia’s written and spoken words confirming the consecration–such as that her letters were forged or she was forced to make the statements against her will (as if that were possible!) or that she was suffering senile dementia and was not responsible for what she said, etc. That argument has broken out several times on this very website. Suffice to say that the documentation is there, and is ample–but the deniers will not change their tune.
There is no moral equivalence between abortion and so-called social justice issues. Abortion is a moral evil. It is ALWAYS morally evil, and even the wishy-washy USCCB recognized that in it’s statement on the Five Non-Negotiable Issues. Ditto for same-sex marriage.
On the other hand, state budget issues and the design of civil poverty relief programs are negotiable, and are a legitimate subject for debate. One man’s justice is another’s injustice, and nothing that the USCCB asserts is “just” in this regard is morally binding.
By the way, Fr. Karl, the Holy Spirit is indeed watching, but recall your Scripture: God promised that He would protect His church from the devil, but He never promised that he would protect man from his own stupidity.
Abortion and other threats to human life are the first social justice issue.
The USCCB has allowed staff and Committees to preach partial Social Justice rather than the Church teachings in entirety.
According to the CCC, Church teachings must be taken in entirety – not picking and choosing.
Keep an eye out for contributions asked of “Catholic University of America” – the Bishops’ University.
I checked last year to find out if CUA uses the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” as a required student text – and the answer was “NO”.
No CCC, No money.
Please see on internet: “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”
paying special attention to question/answer #6 regarding Social Justice.
Remember that BISHOP AQUILA stated: “ Christian responsibility – expressed sometimes as stewardship – is the practice of making prudent and difficult judgments. It is the recognition that we cannot give everything we wish to, we cannot spend what we do not have, and we cannot borrow what we can’t repay.”
and
Bishop Morlino stated: “Where intrinsic evils are not involved, specific policy choices and political strategies are the province of Catholic lay mission,”; and
“”It is the role of bishops and priests to teach principles of our faith, such that those who seek elected offices, if they are Catholics, are to form their consciences according to these principles about particular policy issues.” – Bishop Morlino
John Carr violated this frequently.
More US Solders have been killed in Afghanistan under the OBAMA administration than in the previous 10 years.
And we don’t need John Carr telling us anything about war. The Church’s Just War DOCTRINE is in the CCC # 2309 & 2317.
The USCCB should not be involved in lay politics, and to make certain that CUA teaches the entire truth rather than the truth as propogated by a political individual – they need to use the CCC as a required student text.
If Carr’s replacement can not define SUBSIDIARITY and COMMUTATIVE JUSTICE or the rest of the CCC as well as Solidarity, he/she should not be hired.
Carr has done the Church a dis-service by politicising our Faith – leaving out some of the necessary teachings to attain his goals. This causes many people to ignore the USCCB statements all together.
The end never justifies the means CCC – 1753 and 1759.
Ten to One, Carr went to Saul Alynski indoctrinations! Perhaps he even attended with Obama!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
I really do not believe that most of the bishops realize just how much they are and have contributed to the falling away of so many Catholics. What has worked over the centuries simply is not working today regarding bishops authority. We certainly know that today’s secularism and the rest of the causes including the excesses and loss of faith just after Vatican II included many of the Church’s clergy from top to bottom. They also became victim to modern times in ways of thinking. Evil has crept in to the Church bureaucrats as well as its laity. As I told a friend recently, it will either be that I support the “still” true Catholic Church regardless or I will totally leave all of Christianity’as I know it and all organizations especially Protestantism. No wonder the St. Pius X society can be easily accepted……
bud,
Actually evil men worked their way into the Catholic Bureaucracy and from there into the parishes!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
“…Carr is considered a dying breed: a Catholic moderate with a foot firmly in both camps…”
It’s difficult to lose an actual moderate. One only need read the comments of the “conservative” reactionaries on this forum slur and whine about “liberals” to know the Church is going to be worse off if it end-ups with a extremist (of either extreme) in Carr’s former position.
Thanks Rodda, for your encouraging, loving words. You’re so kind and gracious to us here, and I for one, am always on the lookout for one of your caustic bombs so I can be ready to duck for cover…too much love all at once is rather overwhelming!
I say dissolve the USCCB. Faithful Catholics will not miss it, and the funding they receive from parishes can be channeled back into more worthy local projects, upholding the principle of subsidiarity.
There Is No Such Thing as Football Fans Who Hate Football
From: Fr. John Hollowell: “The Holy Father, during a recent Angelus address, said that if a Catholic doesn’t have the Faith anymore, it would be more honest to leave. (Courageous Priest posted it Here.)
This confirms for me something I taught my students the past few years at Ritter – the idea that I have more respect for people who have thought through the issues and leave the Church than I do for the people who disagree with the Church on every conceivable issue of importance, but don’t do the intellectually honest thing and leave.
I’ve said many times I’d much rather talk to an atheist than a cafeteria Catholic because while an atheist has taken false premises to their true conclusion, a cafeteria Catholic has taken true premises through to false conclusions while also lacking the courage to ACT on those false conclusions. Is there anything more illogical than that “catholics” who hate the Church? There is no such thing as Twinkie fans who hate Twinkies, no such thing as Buddhists who hate Buddhism, and no such thing as football fans who hate football.
I’m glad to see the Pope confirm something I’ve felt for a long time – if people don’t like the Church, they should do the intellectually honest thing and leave.”
________
Thank you Father John Hollowell!
Sandra, The Pope did Not say if people don’t like the Church they should do the intellectually honest thing and leave. You can read what he actually said on many internet sites including Courageous Priest. Many cafeteria catholics don’t leave because they worship Jesus and they understand that this is Jesus’ church but they have not trusted the men that are in the position to interpret God’s will. If they leave, they may come back or they may go deeper and deeper into darkness.
“Cardinal Tim Dolan, the country’s top bishop” ~ Archbishop Dolan is not the “top bishop”. There is no “top bishop” in this country. All bishops are bishops, equal to each other and each having complete authority over their diocese, subject only to Rome. The USCCB, of which Dolan is “President”, has no authority or power whatsoever over any bishop or diocese. Witness Bishop Bruskewitz telling the USCCB to take a hike when it wanted to “audit” his diocese. American Catholics need to understand this so they can stop paying attention to dangerously misleading USCCB documents like “Faithful Citizenship”.
Good point.
Catholic Progressives? What is that? Are we letting the secular media define us?
Progressive, Liberal and Conservative Catholics are not in the CCC.
We must start using the correct terminology.
When it comes to our Catholic Faith, there are Faithful Catholics, Heretical Catholics, Schismatic Catholics, and Ignorant Catholics.
All faithful Catholics adhere to the teaching of the Church which is contained in the Bible and CCC.
Well said Mike!
“Catholics are becoming more divided over whether they focus on church teachings against war and poverty or the ones against abortion and gay marriage”
Wouldn’t it be nice if Catholic started focusing on all the teachings of the Church instead of picking and choosing?
Thomas Storck,
You may be the one who is picking and choosing what the Church actually teaches. It teaches Subsidiarity and that we can decide how best to carry out its teachings on war and poverty, but it does not teach that we can be for the killing of the innocent unborn, and for sodomite marriage!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Ken,
Thomas Stork does support Subsidiarity. I don’t think you know he is. He is an editor at the Distributist Review. Distributism is the Catholic economics made famous by G.K. Chesterton and Belloc. An economics based on Subsidiarity and Catholic Social Teaching.
The problem with subsidiarity is that it is an idea that cannot be implemented today. But it is important for several reasons. One is it’s focus on family authority, which includes the unique individual personality of each human being. The second reason it is important to study it is that it may be necessary in the future to implement it … as when and if there comes to be a general state of chaos among major governments such as the govt of the USA, ie where big govt breaks down, riots, civil wars, insurrections and so forth become the norm. It would be the foundation for a revival of civilization, and an opening for the Church to survive and thrive. Although it appears that if God wills this to happen that it won’t be til the next generation of bishops, since the present ones are mostly gladhanders and smiley faced administrators instead of actual practicing bishops. We have the term “practicing Catholics” and here possibly for the first time we have the term “practicing bishops”.
Well progressives are experts at that sort of thing
Indeed it would, Thomas! When I converted five years ago, I breathed a sigh of relief and thought to myself, ‘Peace at last! No more of these petty divisions and constant squabbles of the protestants!” Satan never rests, never takes a holiday and he’s at work across the board, across the aisle, across the seas, across the world, and I for one, pray for unity, as our dearest Lord and Savior is one with His Father and the Holy Spirit. But then, we can’t let people reshape the Church how they see fit, either. Jesus said, “Luke 12:51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division…” I guess all I can hope for is peace in my own heart that only comes from picking up His cross and following Him wherever He leads…and I usually find myself immediately at odds with the world, which is one of those wonderful little ironies that brings a smile.
Wow, a good bye party at Ruth’s Chris Steak House, that is a very expensive place! Those faith advocates he hangs around with must all be part of the 1%!!!!!
Cole Thornton,
Well said!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Detecting sarcasm isn’t your strong suit, Kenneth.
Maybe Ken doesn’t detect sarcasm because he has a true and honest heart, Brian. I certainly agree with Kenneth, whether Cole was being facetious or not. That’s why I used such expressions as troughs, cheeks, jowls et al in one of my posts when writing about Mr. Carr. It all smacks of that whole smoozing world of currying favor and making backroom deals that has ruled the world for time immemorial. Actually, I never heard of Mr.Carr before today, and I certainly have nothing against him personally. I suppose we’re critical because he was an employee of the bishops and it’s disheartening to see how worldly and manipulative many of our bishops really are…like in an old Irving Stone novel. ugh!
Bravo Dana!!
Goodness Dana, farewell dinners are common, as are dinners to commorate other notable and praiseworthy events, including weddings, graduations, family reunions, and holy days.
I would be shocked if you haven’t participated in them yourself, and I am sure you did not see in them the sinister character you have quite uncharitably given to their use by others, here.
As for the expense of Ruth Chris – it is a chain resturant, a notch above Olive Garden, but it hardly hosts the bachallian feast you must imagine.
Is it something that there is ‘NOT’ a radical liberal in the left?
I continue to be totally amazed what has happened and is happenin within th eCatholic Church in America, and particularly with the USCCB.
On November 8, 2008, there was an election in which the most pro-abortion candidate for the Presidency actually won the election and is our President today. On November 13, 2008, the USCCB published the Catholic Church’s opposition to abortion.
Where was the Catholic Church in America at the time?
And where is the Catholic Church and the USCCB now, as we stand to have another election for the Presidency? Where are we, the Catholic Laity? Who are we to believe?
There are actually Catholics in leadership positions in the American Government who have had an important role in standing for the death of our most vulnerable — babes in the womb – and who have promoted and voted for the most anti-life health doctrine ever – Obama care.
To me, all of this totally unfathomable?
Where are our teachers of the Catholic Faith?
And babies continue to be murdered.
And the USCCB coninues to promote doctrine and leadership – against life.
I simply cannot understand this.
Amazing….
Dr. C.L.
He’s not my president, because I have informally seceded from the Union.
Me too, JLS! I never call him President ___. He’s always been the occupier of the White House to me, for to name him anything else is abhorrent and I give too much respect to the title of President of these United States to use it so wantonly.
I haven’t seceded though. That will happen only if he manages to gull the ever-gullible once again!
JLS is there any way I can join your new confederacy…
It is too difficult to understand what within this article is provoking the scorn dished out to Mr. Carr. I have numbered the article’s citations in order:
1) He lobbied for Third World debt relief.
2) He challenged the Paul Ryan budget plan.
3) He dealt with AIDS-related public relations fall-out.
4) He recently lobbied for poverty assistance programs.
5) He didn’t attend a meeting where a Senator mistakenly thought he had expressed concern for the impact of climate change on the poor.
6) He zealously slammed Obama’s HHS contraception-coverage rules.
7) He bemoaned the Iraq War.
So to which of these actions does he owe these attacks? Which of these positions is counter to the Church?
As an individual he can say what he wants, but when working for and representing the USCCB he must INCLUDE all Church teachings including but not limited to SUBSIDIARITY and COMMUTIATIVE JUSTICE.
He was not supposed to involve the USCCB in the US Budget process without taking all the Church teachings into consideration.
He did not bemoan the Afghan war – thus picking and choosing.
One cannot bemoan an evil war without bemoaning every evil war? How silly.
I do think some posters should reflect upon repeatedly denouncing a sin without at least occasionally denouncing other sins…
The very fact that he is a liberal is counter to Church teaching
Many observers believe that Carr has already established himself as part of that same progressive “Bernardin Machine” to which Doyle, Gehring, Kelley, and Morello belonged.
Carr’s long tenure at the USCCB has been marked by scandal; his office made the funding decisions for Catholic Campaign for Human Development grants—some of which went to organizations that promote abortion and same-sex marriage.
Last year, it was revealed that, while working for the USCCB, Carr concurrently chaired the board of the Center for Community Change, an organization that has received $150,000 from the CCHD despite the fact that the organization is involved in pro-abortion activities.
Although Carr ended his affiliation with the Center for Community Change in 2005, he spent more than two decades working for the group.”
Alas, we’ve not heard the last of him. It would seem that he feels he can reek more havoc on the Church by having a social justice outreach at Catholic Univ. so he can be cheek and jowl at the same trough as other notable liberal notables in deforming, reforming and misinforming young and nubile minds whose parents spend untold thousands so people like Carr can create yet another generation of social justice stalwarts. I’m sure he sees himself as some sort of caped crusader, spreading Catholic largesse like lard on white bread, making sure his hungry friends get their share along with his own, naturally, while promoting his own personal rendition of the sermon on the mount, modestly hobnobbing with the rich and even richer, on a global scale, all the while garnering praise and accolades. How ‘amusing’ he refers to himself as round. chuckle. chuckle. He gives new meaning to the pilsbury ‘dough’ boy.
Good point, Brian, but I think it’s the having a foot in both camps at the expense of ignoring the difference between intrinsic evil and prudential judgment that has provoked the scorn dished out to Mr. Carr.
Paul Joseph, the anger is not prompted by a difference between “intrinsic evil” and “prudential judgment”. Carr is cited as identifying evils, all of which the Church has recognized and must fight. Note that you could not identify a listed action that was counter to the Church.
Unfortunately, while this article offers no evidence that Carr ignores differences between evils, the posters offer plentiful evidence that they refuse to recognize evils that would interfere with their politics.
Owners of this site prohibit giving out actual links so please go to internet and search:
” Ending the USCCB’s Path to Progressive Politics ?” on Catholic World Report.
Carr did neglect to follow all Church teachings.
The question of how an evil is to be fought is where prudential judgment enters. Also, not all evils are intrinsically evil, that is, evil in all circumstances. Unjust war, for example, is evil, while just war is not. Thus, war, unlike abortion, is not intrinsically evil. Of the seven items you list, I differ with Mr. Carr only on items 2 and 4. All seven items involve not intrinsic evil, but prudential judgment. As for items 2 and 4, I would simply remind the gentle reader that the preferential option for the poor implies no preferential option for big government. The US poverty rate is the same now as it was before The Great Society (20%). In JP II’s Poland, the first thing the Communists did was to take over from the Church all charitable functions. If the government did not destroy us Catholics with taxes, then we could afford to tithe and take care of the poor on our own far better than any welfare State. That is a matter of prudential judgment on which Catholics in good-standing may disagree. However, they may not disagree on intrinsic evils like abortion or gay “marriage.” A matter of prudential judgment is always less than proportionate to one of intrinsic evil, and Catholics of well-formed conscience are duty-bound to vote accordingly, not blur the distinction, like Mr. Carr, for political expedience.
Sins of omission. Ideas over unborn babies. What else? Mushiness, which I think may be the sin of sloth.
#6 – The Iraq war was justified by all the criteria for a just war in the CCC. Doesn’t sound like Mr Carr read those criteria.
Oops, obviously meant #7.
You do realize that our Holy Father condemned the war as unjust, don’t you, Cole? Did Pope John Paul not understand the criteria for just war?
Read CCC #2309 on ‘just war’. I can make an argument for each item in 2309. I would have no clue if Pope JPII used 2309 in making his statement. By the way practically every very liberal social justice bishop was named a bishop by …….. JPII.
No offense, I hope, that I accept my judgement and the judgement of John Paul over yours, Cole.
But obviously your argument isn’t with Mr. Carr, but with the Holy Father. Why not make your argument against the Popes directly? Why fulminate against minor bureaucratic figures like John Carr? You obviously believe that there is rot at the top – be bold!
There were no weapons of mass destruction. The only justification is empire wants control of the fuel resources in the middle east. Would we prefer that the Russians or Chinese dominate that oil market?
Is that a rhetorical question, JLS?
Is it a question relevant to just war?
But to answer it – I want our nation to behave in accordance with justice. I would gladly trade empire for justice.
He challenged Paul Ryan’s debt plan and you think that is a good thing? No wonder you are so nonplussed at our criticisms! Why don’t you do a little homework on Mr.Ryan’s plan?
It certainly is good to challenge Paul Ryan’s “debt plan”. I have read the thing and Paul Ryan is like a man discovering compound interest for the first time. I doubt if you have read it. Give it a try, it doesn’t take long. Catholics should be repulsed by it.
Subsidiarity properly teaches us that problems are generally best addressed by the lowest level of organization capable of providing the solution. When capability is ignored, appeals to subsidiarity are false and simply amount to the advocacy of neglect.
No Brian, “Subsidiarity”, and “Commutative Justice – Without which no other form of justice is possible”, – like any Church teachings are ignored when the are not taught.
That is why so many good Catholics are encouraging others to read the CCC.
Other than those things stated in the US Constitution, the Federal Government is a last resort, not running to them for everything – which violates subsidiarity.
Carr ignored the NATIONAL DEBT of approx $16 TRILLION dollars rather than incorporating commutative justice into his political statements to the Federal Government.
” Christian responsibility – expressed sometimes as stewardship – is the practice of making prudent and difficult judgments. It is the recognition that we cannot give everything we wish to, we cannot spend what we do not have, and we cannot borrow what we can’t repay.
Christian stewardship cares for the poor by prudently planning-responsibly spending what is in the realm of the possible, while recognizing the limitations of our resources. St. Augustine reflected that prudent stewardship is “love choosing wisely between the things that help and those that hinder. ” – Bishop Aquila.
Why do you reference a document which has nothing to do with Church teachings? Indeed, do you not realize that it was written by Deists and Masons implacably hostile to the Church?
Brian which quote do you object to :
1) The CCC from the Magisterium or both paragraph quotes from Bishop Aquila?
2) Which of the two in your view is a Deist or Mason and hostile to the Church?
” We Cannot Spend What We Do Not Have ” is the article title that was on this site and includes quotes.
“The following statement written by Archbishop Samuel Aquila of Denver appeared August 20 on the Catholic News Agency website.”
CCC: Subsidiarity – 1883, 1885, 1894, 2209
Commutative Justice – without which no other form of justice is possible – 2411
So where is Anne wrong in this post? ? ?
Gosh – I’ve got to choose to your petty debate trick? I think it was pretty clear, if perhaps not to you, that I was questioning the relevance of the Constitution reference.
My point – again – is that subsidarity must place the solution not just on the lowest level, but on the lowest level capable of solving the problem.
Anne, the national debt is so high because our country got involved in a war in Iraq. Catholic leaders spoke out against this war. Sadly, the President didn’t raise taxes on the wealthy to help pay for the war. To maintain the support of the wealthiest Americans for the war in Iraq, tax cuts for the wealthy were kept in place. So our country borrowed from China (among other places) to pay for the war. Some industries benefited from the war in Iraq but sadly most middle class Americans did not. We are eventually going to have to pay for it.
The slightest attempt to recognize the enormity of the destruction of the Catholic community of Iraq never appears in these pages without the usual suspects decrying liberalism and insisting that only George Bush and his ilk can decide the justness of war – John Paul’s insistence to the contrary.
Thank you for bringing that up, Brian. What happened to the Catholic community of Iraq is a great tragedy. Our government’s part in this is very troubling. Tell us more about this. People need to know what happened there.
Oh, come on! Knock off the Democratic Party talking points. The debt is astronomically high because of the failed and ill-conceived stimulus package and also because of out-of-control entitlement programs. As for raising taxes on the rich–all the rich people in the country put together don’t have the assets to even dent the deficit, let alone eliminate it–that’s how much money we’re talking about. This is nothing but class envy, which is another term for breaking the 10th Commandment: “You shall not covet thy neighbor’s goods.” Taxing the rich at a disproportionately high rate (which is what we’re doing, by the way) is harmful to government, as well, because it makes the government too dependent upon the few. New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg chastised his city council, telling them that they can’t keep raising city taxes on the rich because the richest 40,000 or so taxpayers (in a city of about 8-million) are carrying half the city budget already. If a few thousand of them decide they are fed up and move out, it would cause a budget crisis.
The destruction of one of the oldest Catholic communities in the Middle East is a “Democratic Party talking point”??
This uncaring dismissal is is typical of American Catholics who value politics more than Faith.
I was replying to Mark’s 7:50 p.m. post, not yours, Brian S.
Hey, if they can create fiat money, then they can void fiat money.
The caveat here is “lowest levels of organization”; let me emphasize the word “organizatioin”. Rabble and “occupy” movements are not organizations but anti-organizations. The crowds roared at Pilate to execute Jesus. Would that be an organization? No. It was an anti-organization led by little anti-Christs.
“The lowest level capable of solving the problem”: The people with the power believe this to be the United Nations. Norway by law abolishes all debt every so often. This was also prescribed in the Mosaic Law given by God.
The Holy Father said “that if a Catholic doesn’t have the Faith anymore, it would be more honest to leave”? That certainly doesn’t sound like something a Pope would say!
And of course, he didn’t, but was a misleading paraphrase of another’s paraphrase. The Pope’s actual address (his Angelus address of August 28) is easily available on-line for anyone interested.
Brian, you are reading the wrong Angelus from 2011 rather than the one from Aug 26, 2012.
” Deceitfulness is “the hallmark of the Devil”. The Pope said at the Angelus on Sunday, 26 August (2012), speaking of the betrayal of Judas to the faithful gathered in the courtyard of the Papal Residence in Castel Gandolfo.
He “could have gone away too”, Benedict XVI said, “as did many of the disciples”.
Instead “he stayed on with Jesus. He did not stay out of faith or out of love, but rather with the secret intention of taking revenge on the Teacher”. For this reason his most serious sin was, precisely, deceitfulness. ” – Pope Benedict from the Vatican Newspaper.
Catholic HERETICS and Catholic SCHISMATICS fall into this category.
“Deceitfulness is the mark of the Devil”.
The Pope is telling Catholics, walk away also, rather than staying and being deceitful.
Excellent post ANNE!
No, I was reading the one from 2012, and it, and none of the sections you selected contain anything resembling the asserted paraphrase, or your version of it – “walk away also” – either.
Brian S., yes, someone is misapplying what the Pope said about Judas.
k, the pope was not speaking to save the Soul of Judas.
He was speaking to save the Souls of those living today..
What do you think the Pope’s lesson is for Catholics?
Remember what Jesus said about Judas –
“It would have been better for that man if had had not been born.” Mk 14:21
Do you honestly think that the Pope is encouraging people who are deceitful “hallmark of the devil” to continue in the Church causing confusion etc?
See: Rom 16:17-20; Titus 3:10-11;
Although the Church will try to save as many Souls as possible, we will not be able to save those who wish to violate the teachings of Jesus.
The Pope has already told us that the Church will be getting smaller.
Ted, I answered you by going over what the Pope actually said. It did not get posted so…short answer. There was nothing in the Pope’s address that said that deceitful “hallmark of the devil” people should continue in the Church and there was nothing saying they should leave. The Pope did not address that.
Walk away or don’t walk away … reminds me of St Peter in Chains for two years. Difference is that St Peter converted the Roman Empire while he was in chains. Can’t say the same for the bishops today … all they convert is govt fiat money into silver, thirty pieces at a time.
The Pope is telling the deceitful, and only the deceitful to leave. He did not intend the statement to be twisted so folks could insert “folks I don’t like and don’t agree with” to be inserted for “deceitful”.
The Pope was speaking of Judas. He said nothing about people in the Church today except “may all of us remain faithful to the Lord, even when our faith in his teachings is tested. May God bless you all.”
k.
Since Judas has been death for almost 2000 years, the question that was asked of you is – what do you think the Pope was saying to us. ? ? ? ?
He was not talking to Judas.
The Pope speaks to teach us.
Dottie, I submitted a post that went into that in detail, but CCD did not post it. The Pope speaks to teach us, he does not speak so that we may “drink deep of our neighbor’s blood” as St. Francis de Sales put it.
I am beginning to realize that there are some Catholics who apparently think that Adolph Hitler is the only person who ever went to Hell.
Just read an article about Carr on the Cath World Report site. The article wondered whether Carr would follow the many USCCB staffers who have graduated into radical left wing democrat party positions. I found the following to be interesting – “Long-time USCCB employee Alexia Kelley—currently the director of the Center for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships at the US Department of Health and Human Services—works with the pro-abortion Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and was instrumental in helping to pass President Obama’s Affordable Care Act, which included funding for abortion and lacked conscience protections for health care providers. During her 10-year tenure at the USCCB’s Catholic Campaign for Human Development, Kelley worked with CARR to funnel more than $7 million of parishioners’ donations to the scandal-ridden organization ACORN.” ACORN activities helped to create the sub-prime mortgage mess and place the housing market on a ‘quick sand’ foundation. Since CARR funneled money to ACORN then CARR needs to shoulder some of the blame for today’s economic calamities! The article also stated that CARR allocated the grants for CCHD recipients, most of whom are community organizing groups. Another piece of the puzzle connecting the USCCB/bishops with radical organizing/Alinskyite groups and the democrat party/labor cabal.
Are you wondering how heretics and schismatics are allowed to teach at CUA?
Mark Touhey, affliated with ‘Catholics for Obama’ and ‘Catholics in Allianced for the Common Good’ is on the Board of Trustees at CUA; as is Professor, Stephen Schneck. This is a scandal.
Yet the CCC is NOT REQUIRED as a student text for all freshman and/or sophomores at CUA, so that these folks can propogate their ideas without reference to all Church Doctrine.
This denies all students the right to know Church Doctrine in entirety, and allows errors to be taught accidentally or purposely.
Ask your Diocese Bishop not to send any Diocese money to CUA until these issues have been appropraitely addressed.
No Catholic can support Obama due to his promotion of the INTRINSIC EVILS of:
abortion,
sodomy (gay-marriage);
and his violation of Freedom of Religion.
The problem with commenting here is that one has to scroll from top to bottom each time because comments are posted all over the place, not in order, new comments can post from replies at anytime to anywhere else….making it easy to miss any new comments if one does not scroll through the whole thing!