The following is an excerpt from a June 8 posting on the Mirror of Justice blog site.

Yesterday the National Association for Law Placement released the 9-month employment data for the class of 2011. Only 65 percent of graduates obtained a job for which bar passage is required. Fewer than half of the graduates obtained a job in private practice….

Along with the bleak jobs picture, the class of 2011 emerged with a mountain of debt. The debt is every bit as high at Catholic law schools as anywhere else. Here is the average debt for 2011 graduates of Catholic law schools:

Catholic U ($142,000)
St. Thomas (FL) ($137,000)
San Francisco ($137,000)
Loyola (LA) ($132,000)
Georgetown ($132,000)
Fordham ($131,000)
DePaul ($126,000)
St. John’s ($126,000)
Detroit Mercy ($124,000)
Villanova ($122,000)
St. Louis University ($120,000)
Marquette ($117,000)
Santa Clara ($117,000)
Creighton ($116,000)
Loyola (NO) ($115,000)
Seton Hall ($113,000)
Loyola (Chi) ($112,000)
San Diego ($110,000)
St. Mary’s ($109,000)
Seattle Univ. ($109,000)
Ave Maria ($108,000)
Dayton ($107,000)
St. Thomas (MN) ($105,000)
Gonzaga ($104,000)
Boston College ($100,000)
Duquesne ($97,000)
Notre Dame ($94,000)
Barry ($41,000)

In many ways, we want to be like everyone else — strong scholarly cultures, top professors, a full roster of clinical opportunities, top-of-the-line student services, etc. And of course, we want to be highly ranked, so we give scholarship aid to high-LSAT/high-GPA applicants — subsidizing that aid with the full tuition paid by students with weaker entering profiles and (on average) weaker job prospects coming out.

The growing gap between the salary and debt of law school graduates is getting plenty of attention now, though Catholic law schools have hardly been models for charting a path forward. If Catholic legal education is designed to equip students to practice law as a vocation, serving God by serving others, the crippling effect of huge student debt should be even more painful for us than for our colleagues at secular schools.

To read entire story, Click here.



Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 6:53 AM By JLS
A society is neither built nor maintained by lawyers.

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 7:03 AM By AnnaAsher
Watch college inc on YouTube. We have to start living subsidiarity in relation to choosing when and if to go to college.

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 7:53 AM By Dana
Kenneth & JLS, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard people say, “What is that thing in the middle of St.Peter’s!?” It causes real heartburning in many protestants. It’s biggest condemnation is that it just doesn’t fit in with the rest of the design, and I think to myself, “Bernini, you were really an amazing artist…to design something to symbolize our Church on earth (church militant) meeting our Church triumphant. I went to the website of my most favorite art historian, Elizabeth Lev, who said it is the Papal Altar w/Baldachino (canopy) where only the Pope can say mass. In a way, it is the very center of the world of Catholicism, isn’t it? Getting back to the Christ Cathedral, it has enormous potential to attract visitors and converts to the faith. Beauty and art are unarguable truths of God. Everything should be true and beautiful, otherwise, why bother? We’re debating here basically whether these glass structures are beautiful and thus worthy of being a Cathedral and suitable for housing the Cathedra. I’ve not been there and the photo just doesn’t really show us much so I have no opinion. I do hope it is all about beauty and utilizing only art created by BELIEVING artists that is truly sacramental and lacking the usual egotistical crap created by secular artists in their pathetic bid for fame and fortune.

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 8:55 AM By rambler
Speaking as an alumnus of the Santa Clara U School of Law, I can tell you there isn’t much Catholic about the place.

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 9:40 AM By Brian S
A society may not be built or maintained by lawyers, but the American Revolution and its succeeding governments certainly had a lot of lawyers involved in it, including 25 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence as well as 5 of the first 6 presidents. The Church as always recognized their value.

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 10:12 AM By k
What is this article trying to say? That law schools are taking poor students that they know won’t be able to get jobs and charging them full tuition, while the better students who will get jobs are subsidized? And this is unjust? Most college graduates cannot find jobs in their field. Higher education is not job-training. No one is guaranteed a job when they get out. The education gives you the opportunity to try.

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 10:33 AM By Maryanne Leonard
Our society is completely covered when it comes to lawyers. It will be quite a while before we truly need to educate any more of those professionals whom many Southerners call “liars,” not realizing how accurate their mispronunciation can sound in some cases. Let’s educate our people to do contribute to the world, not to feed off its miseries, teach us to be litigious, or get rich bleeding us of our rightful inheritances.

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 10:58 AM By Abeca Christian
I’m concerned, I think this problem is not just in law schools but also on other Catholic Universities. I pray that my child won’t be in such high debt when and if she finishes college at John Paul the Great. I know that they gave us an idea but it didn’t seem realistic and when my child starts in the fall, my child will already start being in debt. I pray for our Lord to provide and help us, our kids need an education but there is not much assistance for the middle class. My sister graduated two years ago as a PA in the medical field and walked out in debt of $100,000. It would of been more but she won grants and scholarships but they were not enough, so the rest are student loans.

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 3:26 PM By John
More doctors and priests… less lawyers!

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 4:58 PM By JLS
Brian S., a lawyer laden society is a sign of a dying society.

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 5:54 PM By Abeca Christian
John if we have more doctors, the only thing is, they may be required to conform to the HHS mandate. Imagine being a pro-life doctor but can’t find a job because you oppose abortion and contraception. The government will make it harder for those with morals to earn an honest living and still respect our religious morals and freedoms!

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 8:52 PM By k
abeca, two-thirds of college students borrow money to go to college. Most of the debts are $25,000 or less. College is a big investment. I am glad that your daughter was accepted to a good Catholic college. $30,000 a year is a lot but that is what the Catholic colleges are charging. If she has to borrow two thirds of it-$80,000, at the current repayment rate she will owe $920 per month for 10 years. The calculator I used was on finaiddotorg. Hope it works out for her.

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 10:29 PM By Abeca Christian
k well the tuition is close to $90,000, close to that to attend where we want, does not include other expenses and being realistic now, the debt will be much higher and yes there will have to be many student loans. I know we were given that estimate of being in dept of a car debt after graduation but I highly doubt that it is realistic because we are figuring it out. also My sister is in debt of $100,000. Not a good place to be when you first graduate. So I am trying to help my child find ways to cover the other tuition dues other than what is already being borrowed from government loan which they only approved for a certain amount, the rest we will have to co-sign for a private student loan, the rest since she is still a minor. I am trying to avoid that, still does not include the fact that we will need another car and car insurance to cover for her to drive to and from school etc. The list goes on, it is very stressful time for us, a lot of figuring things out because we want to make appropriate decisions that will help her and us not to be in more dept. Things we weren’t really prepared for. My husband also says that he has seen many college graduates not find decent paying jobs right away, San Diego area, that they are working for grocery or department stores to survive and pay their loans and have no choice but to still live at home.

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 10:41 PM By Abeca Christian
This great country has a lot of homeless, spends a lot of money on abortions, contraception, foolish spending on public school systems that are not working, the unions aren’t helping with the problems of bad teachers or bad employees. Our tax money is not spent well, you have welfare systems that only pay for many who are just sucking the system, getting their free meals. It’s astonishing to see some one use their welfare food stamps to get food, star bucks etc and see them have the latest in cell phones, and I can’t tell you how many of them I saw drive new BMW’s. I have no issue for helping those who really need it but so many just know how to suck the system. The schools usually make you fill out a form to try to get free lunch, they have a quota of how many they can get filled out, turns out my 3 kids couldn’t get it but how did the families with fancy SUV’s and brand new houses qualified? Well we are honest folks, we prefer to pay for our own but I just don’t get how this system allows all those abuses, while the rest of us work hard for everything we have.

Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 11:33 PM By Abeca Christian
I just read reports that Obama’s bailout to General Motors, they are known as China motors more like it. Most cars are made in China, not in the USA. Our American democracy saved them and they are giving China, a communist country, jobs by building cars over there. Another foolish way to spend our USA dollars about 80 billions dollars! This was a commentary by Vince Wade showed on YouTube. It’s foolish how our government is spending our money!

Posted Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:29 AM By JLS
University of Calif runs more than $10,000 tuition per year. Add living expenses, and the cost may be over $20,000 per year. This may be somewhat less than a private college. In contrast, my first year at UCD, the tuition was $243 per year, books about $60 per year, rent $300 per year (9 months), gasoline 35 cents per gallon, Chivas Regal $8 per fifth, beer (cheap) $1.25 per pitcher during happy hour, on campus rock concerts by big name groups, free, valve job on VW Bug $50, free sex, free hitchhiking to SF or Berkeley or LA, new Pugot tenspeed bike $300, minimum wage 87-1/2 cents per hour. Nowadays every single one of these items is ruled over by the govt, especially the sex item. The sex item costs more than the tuition … it costs one’s freedom; one becomes a slave not only to immorality but to the govt who sells it for votes: The govt sex industry is no different from the old “company store” syndrome. The late great Tennessee Ernie Ford broke the public ice with his hit song lyric, “I owe my soul to the company store”.

Posted Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:55 AM By Brian S.
So JLS has spoken. One can even imagine a voice over behind Charlton Heston. I surer sign of societal death in my opinon is a society laden with fanny-tuckers and lipo-suctioners. Perhaps medical schools should be closed, or priced out of reach. What’s your point?

Posted Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:09 AM By JLS
Brian S., you’re behind the times. Fanny tucking has now gone the other way to fanny plumping. But the point you request was blogged clearly and concisely above, “Posted Monday, June 18, 2012 3:26 PM By John More doctors and priests… less lawyers!” Let the doctors and priests run their roosts without interference from the foxes and wolves aka the legal institution. For this to happen, the society has to be based on trust more than on the adversary system that has taken over in the past few decades. Not that it is the fault of the lawyers, since they are only following the money; it is the fault of the voters who are following their brain stem and not their minds.

Posted Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:36 AM By k
abeca, I am surprised that they would say it is equivalent to a car loan payback. What kind of car? A hummer? Your husband is right about outcomes after college. Less than 50% of college grads are employed in their field. I do not know what your daughter is intending to study. I know you want a good Catholic education for your daughter. John Paul the Great looks like a great Catholic education. I was looking at it for my son because he wants to go into film production. My husband is discouraging him because he knows people who spent big money sending their kids to expensive schools with film study and there were no jobs for them when they got out. JPtheGreat also offers a BS in business which they say is still a good field. But two of my sisters got degrees in business-one went on to graduate school and she got an entry level job with the county; the other ended up working in a department store. These days, it’s computers and engineering and health care that have jobs.

Posted Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:33 AM By Brian S
yeah, things were cheaper back in my day too (early 70’s). Back then, union meatpackers made $25/hour and could send their kids to State College for $2500/year. Now meatpacking is done by immigrant labor for $8/hour and State College cost $20,000/year. Some folks call that progress and yell for more. That wage earners – who see their wages cut while the opportunities for their children are contracted – do it amazes me. But hey – hamburger costs twenty-five cents less per pound.

Posted Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:20 AM By Abeca Christian
JLS its worst now. That is why we are doing what we can to work out a way to have our children attend private devout Catholic Universities, it is our main priority but not an easy one for those of us living honest living, paycheck to paycheck. Even my uncle who is wealthy and can afford to send his son to a Masters program University, has suggested I try local SDSU or a liberal Catholic one. Morally I don’t feel right to support my child to attend a University that parties and usually our kids lose their faith going to those schools. It depends on the child but my eldest is so easily influenced. My cousins daughter was being taught at her public college that gay people are born that way, we had to correct that error by showing her facts, it took us over an hour to help correct that error that she was being indoctrinated. My other cousins who are very Orthodox and conservative, their children are turning liberal because they go to public colleges and one of them is SDSU, they defend Obama and have even stayed away from faith filled colleges because they weren’t diverse enough for them. They are very much indoctrinated into liberals views. Comet this voting season, several who are already over 18, are voting for Obama. They are well trained and very good at speech. It sure was a day of dialogue and they won’t back down, they are only kids early on their college years, this is the generation that this society is raising, they are the majority and the conservative kids are the minority in my area. I believe in prayer, please keep our youth in your daily prayers, pray for families to be able to afford to attend good solid faith colleges, lets beat the bad ones that are indoctrinating our kids towards evil!

Posted Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:27 PM By JLS
Brian S., Yes, my “I have spoken” syndrome is genetic. My father as a child threw his inkwell across the classroom; I throw wrenches against the ground; the then chairman of the the religion dept at CUA pounded his fists on the table top, an old Benedictine monk flustered at the questions slammed his coffee table books on the table; Kruschev slammed his meat hooks on the table in front of Nixon or was it Eisenhower; Jesus cursed a bad olive tree to death and threw over the tables of the money changers while striking them with a whip; Obama is strongly rumored to love the bath houses in Chicago and take coke runs with gay limo drivers: Brian S., take your pick; will it be the strong forceful emotion you fear or the sandusky liberals you tolerate?

Posted Tuesday, June 19, 2012 1:01 PM By max
say it ain’t so! all this talk about you and obama fraternizing in gay bath houses has destroyed my faith in the internet! not to mention your stories of snorting cocaine with gay limo drivers! REPENT! what would your dogs say???

Posted Tuesday, June 19, 2012 1:07 PM By Brian S.
Gee, JLS, I have only two choices? And they are to tolerate “sandusky liberals” or to fear your “strong forceful emotion”? I think I’ll just enjoy a laugh at all of your sound and fury instead. “Meathooks” on the table? Kruschev pounded his shoe at the United Nations, not “meathooks”….that just sounds gay…

Posted Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:45 PM By JLS
Sure, hamburger costs less now than then, Brian S.; however, its quality is not only worse but bad. To find hamburger that tastes as good as it did up into the … maybe … the seventies, one has to find range fed beef instead of swill and hormone fed beef.

Posted Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:35 PM By JLS
Abeca, universities have the one big advantage in that they have countless students and professors from all over the world … socialization and connections. A community college, however, has the advantage of keeping your kids home for their first two years. The academic quality is fine because it is only basic academics, and could be better than a university. There are faithful Catholics in public universities and colleges … maybe more than in Catholic ones. Young students will deploy their hunting gathering level of instinct, while you show them how to cultivate their futures.

Posted Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:17 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
It is a gross misnomer to call most if not all “Catholic” Universities that offer Degrees in Law “Catholic”! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Wednesday, June 20, 2012 5:52 AM By Bob One
Mr. Fisher, my gut tells me to agree with you, but I’m not sure I would know what to expect from a Catholic College. Almost everyone I know who has gone to one was not Catholic and went there for the academics. I would suspect that in law school there would be at least one course on ethics from a Catholic viewpoint, perhaps a few courses in canon law, and after that I don’t know what to expect. If I went to a Catholic University for a law degree I would research placement percentages, faculty quality, etc. What else should I look for?

Posted Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:08 AM By Brian s. 
Union-packed meat was better, no doubt. No argument with you there, JLS. The same folks who broke the unions brought you the swill and the hormones….

Posted Wednesday, June 20, 2012 5:55 PM By JLS
Brian S., I stand to learn on this topic. Just today I was discussing briefly the union issue with a retired union man. I told him do not support the present union situation but that if I were in a union, then I’d go for the benefits. What do I mean? I mean the industrial area demands have a lot to do with the outflow of industry offshore and the subsequent loss of manufacturing, engineering and support jobs. Yet, at the same time I see the globalization that is going on as eventually leveling the income field around the world. Like industrial revolution did a couple centuries ago, globalization is zapping a whole heck of a lot of jobs. International unions? No doubt the forces are at work, yet the stabilizations are likely a ways off yet. Brian S., what do you do when thirty percent of a society can produce enough for the whole society? Twenty hour work weeks for all with two month vacations? What would all the leisure time do to us then? Yes, I know that subsidiarity would be the way to go … but with government power today … it ain’t gonna happen, especially now that govt is beginning to crack down on home vege gardens and milk producers.

Posted Wednesday, June 20, 2012 5:58 PM By JLS
Bob One, why is it I never read or hear of Catholics discussing ways to develop science and technology?

Posted Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:39 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Bob One, Thanks for the easy question. The answer is adherence to Catholic Moral values! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:44 PM By max
JLS, the vatican and the catholic church at large is always working on science, technology, and stuff that saint thomas aquinas never had to contend with back in the dayy. i read a lot of catholic news site, and the holy see even supports astronomy work, internet work, and all kindss of things that are 21st century items. sadly, the media focusses on stuff that churns up people’s anger, and ignores the other material the catholic church is explorign, working on, and trying to cultivate — such as safe clean water for the poor, etc.

Posted Thursday, June 21, 2012 6:21 AM By Brian S.
Without sickness, there would be no use for doctors, without bad pipes there would be no use for plumbers. Surely you would not be asking what doctors and plumbers would do in a world of health and running water…