The following comes from a Sept. 15 story on the Catholic News Agency website.
Catholic bishops have asked the U.S. House of Representatives to reject $40 billion in proposed cuts to the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, formerly known as the food stamp program.
“Adequate and nutritious food is a fundamental human right and a basic need that is integral to protecting the life and dignity of the human person,” said Bishop Stephen Blaire of Stockton, Calif., in a letter to the members of the House of Representatives.
“How the House chooses to address our nation’s hunger and nutrition programs will have profound human and moral consequences,” added the bishop, who chairs of the U.S. Bishops’ Conference’s Committee on Domestic Justice and Human Development.
The cuts are part of the 2013 Farm Bill, the main agricultural and food policy guide for the country, and source of funding for a number of programs and regulations in the food and agriculture industries.
The current regulations are found in the Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008, which expires on September 30, 2013. In June, the House failed to pass a version of the Farm Bill that contained $20 billion in cuts to the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program.
Bishop Blaire asked the House to continue to oppose cuts to the food aid program, saying that the “government has an indispensable role in safeguarding and promoting the common good of all.”
“This includes ensuring poor and hungry people have access to adequate and nutritious food.”
He added that the program “is one of the most effective and important federal programs to combat hunger in the nation…..”
Toe read the entire story, click here.
As usual, our bishops are clueless. They have not the foggiest idea how an economy works. They are consumed by the idea that the republicans are the enemy of the poor. Have they no access to published data that demonstrates the exponential growth of welfare spending under the current administration? The term “food stamps” is obsolete in any case. To remove the stigma once associated with taking handouts, the government has simply changed the way they distribute income by handing out credit cards. There are millions of able-bodied citizens who have simply dropped out of the labor pool, finding it easier to live off the taxpayer. Supporting a system that confiscates the income of one person and giving it to another is nothing short of complicity in wholesale larceny. The bishops should be ashamed of themselves!
According to the USDA:
Nearly 50% of SNAP beneficiaries are children.
An additional 8% are elderly.
Abuse of the program (that is, selling the SNAP benefits for cash) is at approximately1%
Many recipients who are not either children or the elderly are the working poor.
Catholic believe in protecting life, from conception to natural death. This means helping the poor have access to food when they are lacking. If this is something that you think society should foreswear, perhaps you need to re-evaluate your commitment to Christianity.
Matthew 25:37-40: The righteous will say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
St. Peter: You don’t actually believe the USDA propaganda?
I think it would be a better idea if the USCCB put pressure on the DNC to stop strangling the economy with their regulations and taxes so business can start hiring again . BTW St Peter don’t mistake the government welfare state for true charity.
With their credit cards – these “poor” people are purchasing all kinds of JUNK FOOD – potato chips, soda drinks, ice cream, etc, etc, etc.
Many on food stamps and their children are very overweight.
These credit cards do not limit them to vegetables, dairy, and meat products.
It would be very easy to limit what the food stamp credit cards can and can not purchase.
Food stamps should not be provided to anyone more than 10 lbs over their recommended weight limit without Doctor’s orders; with each Doctor being held legally accountable.
Have the Bishops or USDA addressed this problem? Of course not.
Weight police. What will the totalitarians think of next?
Pete:
It is very true that the poor are overweight. This is primarily because processed foods are cheaper than fresh foods, and processed foods are filled with additional fat, sugar, salt, and other preservatives that fill the belly. Therefore, if you have a limited food budget for the week and need to make sure all your kids are eating, you’ll buy the processed cheese and white bread because you will be able to feed all your kids. It is cheaper to by coke than milk, cheese wiz than cheddar, canned tomato sauce than to take the time to make your own.
Furthermore, this problem has become compounded with urban food deserts. If you visit many of the impoverished cities and neighborhoods in California, areas like Compton, Inglewood, East LA, areas of Oakland, Hunter’s Point, you will see that there are no markets even selling fresh foods, let alone supermarket chains. Often the only available foods are the processed foods you find in the corner stores.
Or as one overweight poor woman put it: “Food is the only pleasure I have.”
Matthew 25:37-40 is talking about the individual believer, you as a Catholic are told to give to the poor and the hungry. He didn’t say to lay that responsibility on the state. Socialism and Christianity are in opposing camps , once the government is in control of charity then there is no need for the believer to look to the Bible for instruction they most look to the laws of the State. Why do you look to the Government to fulfill your obligation. Christ didn’t look to the Roman’s to feed the multitude at The Sermon on the Mount I suggest you follow his example.
You are right, Jay.
No where in the Bible does Jesus lay the responsibility to help the poor on any Government entity.
In addition, depending on which passage you read, “poor” is not only those truly in need of food, clothing and shelter, but also those in need of spiritual assistance.
It never includes the lazy.
The Bishops need to do their jobs and help all those in need of spiritual assistance. If we had to give them a grade across the board for doing their own jobs – itt would probably be a D – .
Genesis 41-45
I guess the Bishops have not done a good job catechizing the role of the Church to promote fair governmental policies for the poor. And Francis is only beginnign to do it, as he explains, government policies are best analyzed by their effect on the poor.
Well said Jay.
“The State must contribute to the achievement of these goals both directly and indirectly. Indirectly and according to the principle of subsidiarity, by creating favourable conditions for the free exercise of economic activity, which will lead to abundant opportunities for employment and sources of wealth. Directly and according to the principle of solidarity, by defending the weakest, by placing certain limits on the autonomy of the parties who determine working conditions, and by ensuring in every case the necessary minimum support for the unemployed worker.” John Paul II
According to pope francis we shouldn’t become to “obssesed” with these single issues like food stamps.
Kevin it’s Pope Francis….please use capital first capital letter, when referring to our holy father. I noticed that you had no trouble capitalizing your name, so I hope you don’t take my comments as criticizing, that is not my intend….so sorry if I came off wrong but I don’t mind typo’s and such but our Pope deserves his name in capital.
Anton, I believe the bishops know exactly how the economy works. Companies, including those for whom I worked as a fairly senior executive, are making huge profits and cutting workforces. The truth is, most people out of work will never get another job because even the most mundane jobs today require scientific knowledge and skills to run the computers which run the robots, etc. This country does not have jobs for millions of people. They are not leaches who pray on the taxpayers. They would work if they could find jobs. In the meantime, they need to provide food for their families and for millions, that means “food stamps”. If you would like to put some limits on what the cards can be used for, I could go along with that. Why should we pay for booze, cigarettes, salt snacks, etc.? But, don’t think of these people at terrible. The economy isn’t what it use to be. Ask anyone who was once in the middle class. I for one remember when 50-60% of the population could be called middle class. What is it today? Maybe 25-30%? We need to feed people. As Christians, we need to follow the words of Christ to bring the children unto me. That means feed them. And, we all childred of the Lord !
Bob One, the Bishops know as much about how the economy works as they do about the far side of the moon. The Government and President Obama are standing on the throat of industry in the name of ideology. He is dedicated to putting the coal industry out of business, which supplies 35 percent of the electricity in the US. Just think of the men and women that will be put of out of work by Obama.
All of this economic destruction has been planned by these corrupt Statists who have contempt for the middle class. This is why I pray for a right wing revolution where countless government agencies are eliminated forever and it’s government bureaucrats who are out of work.
Do you know this “cut” represents about 5% of the $800B (now-annual) budget for foodstamps, a budget which has more than tripled since 2001, and there is no means-testing or work requirement for these benefits? So much for Paul’s rule “We used to lay down the law that those who do not work shall not eat.” 2 Thess 3:10. This a new Church and a new leadership
More bilge from Comrade Blaire and the Socialist Republic of USCCB. Big surprise . . . yawn.
No means-testing for food stamps? Where would you get that notion, Steve Phoenix?
Of course, the amount spent on food stamps has gone up — the middle class has been squeezed and the poor have been hammered for decades.
Meanwhile what Anton calls wholesale larceny is what all of the Popes since Leo have advocated for — it is what Leo called a preferential option for the poor.
Brian S. : Show me where the popes have ever advocated a welfare state that confiscates the property of one to give to another. Prior to Vatican 2, every pope going back to the 19th century condemned Marxism.
The Church condemns Marxism, yes. Assistance, by the civil authority, to the poor can be accomplished without founding a Marxist state. Read Centesimus Annus, and see if you charge John Paul with being a commie.
Brian S., one of the problem is that many in the Democratic Party has said that their desire is a one payer insurance plan with the government in complete control. Bob Beckel said it on Fox News and other Democrats have said it too. Who would want the government in complete control of their healthcare. Not me! I find no competition scary.
Pope Francis
ON FINDING GOD IN EVERYONE
“God is in everyone’s life. Even if the life of a person has been a disaster, even if it is destroyed by vices, drugs or anything else_God is in this person’s life.”
ON FAITH AND DOUBT:
“If one has the answers to all the questions_that is the proof that God is not with him. It means that he is a false prophet using religion for himself. The great leaders of the people of God, like Moses, have always left room for doubt. You must leave room for the Lord, not for our certainties; we must be humble.”
The USCCB … a Wholly Owned Subsidiary of the DNC.
ROTFL
What does that mean, YFC?
Roll on the floor laughing, I guess he thinks its a joke rather than being true
I am not a person who has ever depended on the system. Even when we struggled financially but praise God, I don’t know how we did it but the Lord always provided.
My sister has been unemployed for a while now, her husband is self employed and does not make enough… they rent. But what gets me the worst is that my sister needs urgent medical care, she has a tumor growing so huge, it’s bigger now, she looks pregnant. She tried seeking medical help but they refused her because she has no children, MediCal told her that she had to sell her only car to help pay for the surgery and whatever medical help she needed to remove the ever growing tumor or tumors. I was so angry.
Our family has always been honest hard working Americans, I couldn’t believe that they would rather her be carless in order for them to help her. She needs that car to job hunt. I am still troubled by the whole system. I don’t get it.
I also don’t get the food stamp system either… it all troubles me. I know people who really need it but aren’t getting the help and how come those whom have fancy cars, even buy I-phones etc, can qualify to get food stamps? I don’t get it. I really appreciate the food stamp program to help those who really need it. But why are the people that I know personally, who really need it, aren’t getting it?
Our welfare system is ridiculous, as your sister’s plight shows. Suggest that medical care shouldn’t require selling your car, or disconnecting your phone, however, and you risk being called a commie. That doesn’t help advance reform, reform that Catholics should be leading, as our Popes have guided us to do.
Abeca Christian, often there are private companies that can help your sister if she applies. Look up such things “as private doctors who help the poor” and “private pharmaceutical companies who help the poor”. I received assistance from one organization when my medication first came on the market and was very expensive. They helped me make my co-pay, even though I had private and Medicare (the one for the elderly that we paid into) combo insurance. Get a doctor for her, and pay out of pocket for some if she can and deduct it from her or your taxes, if you pay, at the end of the year if that is possible, and I think it is. Often physicians can get help for a patient. I will look up one organization for you if I still have the papers.
They are many sources of private help out there, if people just know about them. Sometimes they are private and government combinations I think.
One of the private sources is the Patient Access Network Foundation. If your sister has a doctor, he or she should see if she can use this foundation if needed, or the doctor can recommend some. Also, look into the St. Gianna Physician’s Guild if she is Catholic and likes pro life Catholic doctors.
Often doctors charge less if the patient pays out of pocket. and they do not have to fill out insurance papers, etc.
Anne T you are an angel…thank you so much. I will do what you suggested, please pray for my sister, she is young and really needs the medical attention, she was crying today because it seemed like all doors where closed for her. She doesn’t understand how the system that is famous for enabling many that know how to such the system dry, is not even open to help her who is really in need right now and I feel helpless because I am not able to help because we have our own family and my own medical bills as well. But I will definitely look into your suggestions this week, please keep her in your prayers, her name initials is O.W. Thank you and God bless you,
Abeca Christian, have your sister contact try St. Vincent de Paul.
Thanks cja but she is not homeless…St, Vincent is only for the homeless. She has family, we all help other ways but this is an expensive medical situation that we are needing some help with.
Abeca Christian, I know what you mean. I was very lucky that every time I had cancer, except the last incident, I was able to work part time, go to work then go to the hospital for radiation treatment and stay home the rest of the day. I also had disability insurance that I bought which paid my co pay for the hospital. People have to plan for these things even though they do not think they will happen. You know “the save for a rainy day philosophy” while one is working. Of course one cannot plan for everything; sometimes it just sneaks up on a person, and that is when outside help is needed and deserved. Also, because I worked less, our income is less now. That is why they gave me the help from PAN the last time. I did not ask for it, the social worker at the hospital just told me to apply. I had given a lot to charity and it was returned in another way. We all have to do that.
Once the generic brand of my medicine came onto the market — only after a few months — and it was affordable, I no longer needed help. When I retired, I had accrued a lot of sick leave which I had not used and for which I never got paid, so no one can say I ever cheated the system.
I will pray for her Abeca. The Patient Access Network Plan (PAN) was the independent organization that helped me. It is their Benefits Department that does it. They go by your income and certainly do not expect you to get rid of your necessities, such as your house and car. Pharmaceutical in this country are expensive at times because of the research going on over here, and the fact that some pharmaceutical companies do help the poor from their own foundations. That is why I never tell my legislators to bring in foreign medicines unless they are really needed. We need to support our own pharmaceutical companies if they are not producing such things as the birth control pill because they help us in return.
Please let me know how she does, Abeca.
Thank you Anne T, I just gave her the information, I hope this will help. God bless you. It just seems like its a dead end and we feel like time is running out. I’m going to speak to Sharp and see if they can allow payments, but I worry that with hospitalizing and such that it can run very expensive and she has no job right now. My sister has worked all her adult life, paying her taxes, helping many on her path. This really shows us the reality of how terrible this system is. I am still baffled at the response they told her, that she would have to sell her only car. Wow. Sorry folks but this terrible system also punishes hard working folks and when they find themselfes in a jam, they want you to give up all that you worked hard for so they can give it to someone else who is truly sucking the system. Fact is we know a couple who has been on section 8 for more than 10 years, they are both healthy and young, able to work. This is paid by our hard earn taxes. I do have a beef with the way this system is. I wish our bishops would know this. Maybe they would have different sentiments. They have no clue what the middle class have to endure if they ever find themselves in a bind, how this system that took their taxes do not help them, that they would dare to ask them to lose their home and car. Its disgusting to me. So ya this is personal for my family right now.
Abeca, can you buy her car?
Have her sell the car to someone (you, perhaps?) who can lend it back to her. That way she doesn’t have to get top dollar.
What people don’t get is that the medical bills are going to be much much more than what selling an old car would even cover. Cars depreciate in value especially if they are older with high mileage. Medical here in the USA is so expensive. It’s down right robbery if you ask me. This system is horrible. Plus the care is not up to par nor as good especially if they are treating you like a beggar because you don’t have insurance. Most likely you will get poor medical care with practitioners who may not know or may not detect well what is really wrong with you.
To think that most of your adult life, you pay taxes that go towards others who know how to use the system to their advantage, to pay for abortions, to fund other immoral things or such other things like section 8 etc, not that it is your choosing and we have no issues in helping those in real need especially if this system can change for the better, to help people better themselves instead and not be system dependent, that would be a big plus, but when you find yourself in a tough season, your told No siree bob, you don’t quality, you have worked too hard all your life, you are too honest(they don’t actually say that but their actions tell you that) and this system only wants you to be close to homeless in order for them to help you get back on your feet or for whatever tactics people do to get freebies that most hard earning Americans pay for you to get, but forget the middle class who are now poor, they don’t quality because they own a house, a car or two, they would have to give up their stability if they ever run into an unemployment situation, they would have to be near death before any medical assistance can be given to them.
But how do others do it? I don’t get it. Its not good enough for them if you are struggling to make it back to where you were, they want system dependent people instead. Or they train system dependent people, opportunistic folks who may not have some dignity or class. It keeps those programs alive and more people employed funded by your taxes. Oh yes and they treat the tax payers like crap. Unfortunately that is how it is, I hear that often from many honest hard working folks, who help other and work hard for what they have. Its a good thing my sister is honest and won’t stoop low but I pray for a solution to her situation. I support helping those who do need the help, I pray for them and gladly will give but after seeing with my own eye’s and hearing with my own ears, how flawed this system is, I don’t like it. It needs improvement big time! Thank you for your prayers. Let this be a lesson to us all how flawed this system is and please take seriously that what many are saying when expressing their concerns, that they are real concerns and that they affect us all. Pax Christi
St. Peter: If you believe the USDA stats you are gullible. The 1 percent abuse factor is laughable. The government has no idea of how massive fraud and abuse are. The USDA has an incentive to give away as much food as possible. They are advertising in some localities of how easy it is to get on the gravy train.
Have the USCCB, State Conferences of Catholic Bishops, and Diocese Bishops who have involved themselves in the Laity’s politics said anything about millions who commit FRAUD to get Food Stamps, and thereby are STEALING from the taxpayers? About the ILLEGAL Immigrants who are getting taxpayer aid? And about those who commit the Mortal Sin of SLOTH – laziness?
Have they taught about government waste and the huge cost of government bureaucracies without which there would be more $ for those truly in need?
Of course not, these Bishops and their Staffs merely support the Communist/Marxist forms of government which make people dependent upon the government rather than God for their daily bread.
The Federal Government is almost $17 TRILLION dollars in debt; CA is $407 BILLION dollars in debt; and this does not include the debts of Cities and Counties.
When was the last time the USCCB, Diocese Bishops, etc have publically and actively taught that without “COMMUTATIVE JUSTICE no other form of justice is possible”? Commutative Justice requires that debts are paid.
CCC: ” 2411 Contracts are subject to commutative justice which regulates exchanges between persons and between institutions in accordance with a strict respect for their rights.
Commutative justice obliges strictly;
it requires safeguarding property rights,
PAYING DEBTS,
and fulfilling obligations freely contracted.
WITHOUT COMMUTATIVE JUSTICE, NO OTHER FORM OF JUSTICE IS POSSIBLE.
One distinguishes commutative justice from legal justice which concerns what the citizen owes in fairness to the community, and from distributive justice which regulates what the community owes its citizens in proportion to their contributions and needs. ”
Bible: 1 Thess 4:12; 2 Thess 3:6-14.
You should sell all your worldly goods and give the money to the poor. Then, like St. Francis, you can go and beg for the poor. God bless you.
USCCB a wholly owned subsidiary of the DNC???
As I recall, the USCCB is actively opposing certain provisions of Obamacare (the Affordable Care Act). Certain Bishops made public statements in the 2012 virtually calling for a vote for Mr. Romney.
Mike: I wish the bishops had REALLY called for the election of Romney. “Virtually” didn’t cut it. Their voter guides were ambiguous and wimpy. They were afraid of repercussions from their political allies on the left, the grievance mongers, the welfare establishment, and the poverty peddlers. It is my firm belief the majority of our bishops are democrats anyway. Why would Cdl Dolan go out of his way to kiss up to Obama and the Demo convention?
Cardinal Dolan was asked to pray. His prayer was that many of the Democratic platform ideas would fail and that God would guide these people.
Cdl Dolan should not have attended the Al Smith dinner and guffawed it up with all his democrat buddies. That was a disgraceful performance.
I lost what little respect I had for him until that night. His performance at the demo convention merely reconfirmed what was by then obvious:
the good cardinal simple can’t break away from his party. Many Catholics were reared from childhood on to revere the peoples party and despise the party their parents considered the anti-Catholic party. These people are still living in the days of President Truman.
Dolan is useless, he considers Gov. Cuomo a Catholic in good standing despite the fact he proposed one of the most extreme abortion laws, supported gay marriage, and lives with his girlfriend… not so much as a denial of communion… I have basically given up on all of them, and entering a bunker mentality
good! we’ll bring bread and water to you down there Canisius.
Pastors who endorse political candidates from the pulpit risk losing the tax exempt status of their Church.
Have the “Revs.” Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton ever been threatened with having their tax exempt status revoked, or any of the Caucasian leftist “reverends”? Of course not! Pastors speak from the pulpit all the time. The only ones who get threatened are the ones who speak out against abortion or for traditional families, and with priests usually because their bishops are afraid of their government funding getting cut off. No one is fooled by all this; it is all about money.
and who controls it.
Reverend Jesse Jackson and Reverend Al Sharpton do not head churches. Neither gentlemen runs a religious organization. They do head up civil and political organizations (Rainbow Push and National Action Network). Donations to them are not tax-exempt.
YFC: That rule does not apply to black ministers. Wake up and smell the coffee!
Mike: The only provisions the USCCB have ever opposed are those in direct conflict with the church’s prohibition against abortion, sterilization, and aborifacient drugs. They are quite cozy with the rest of Obamacare. They have been pushing for socialized medicne for decades. They see no conflict there, as many of us do! Confiscating the wealth of one citizen to benefit another is socialism. The bishops think it is charity. That is where conservative Catholics differ from Progressive Catholics.
The poor and marginalized shouldn’t be pawns in the ongoing progams of our heavily socialized farm industry. I knew a nice guy who was paid not to farm several hundred acres of rice land in the northern Sacramento VAlley. This helps keep price of rice artically high for the larger producers here aat home, and for sale to Japanese consumers. All my friend had to do is keep the land fallow and each year he got his “farmer’s welfare” check from the USDA. He used the fallow land as habitat to shoot ducks. Nice work, huh?
What do the bishops think about that? Here’s a way to grow produce to help feed the poor and the USDA says “don’t grow anything on this land”. Huh?
One must ask how the “bishops” can claim they are pro-life while actively working for the election and re-election of pro-abortion Demoncrats. The answer is they CAN’T. You don’t have to be a student of Logic to see that. That is why more and more real Catholics are ignoring them.
May God have mercy on an amoral America!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Good Cause, we no longer have much farm land here in California. the canneries in Stockton and other valleys were shipped off to Mexico years ago. The Walnut Plant and other places of employment in Stockton were shut down too. That is one reason the place is going bankrupt — too many people and no jobs.
I should have said too many people WITH no jobs. Also, the priest molestation situation did not help either. One young man there burned down a church because he said he had been molested. It was rebuilt which cost money.
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” ― James Madison
“When there is question of defending the rights of individuals, the defenceless and the poor have a claim to special consideration. The richer class has many ways of shielding itself, and stands less in need of help from the State; whereas the mass of the poor have no resources of their own to fall back on, and must chiefly depend on the assistance of the State. It is for this reason that wage-earners, since they mostly belong to the latter class, should be specially cared for and protected by the Government”. – Leo XIII, quoted by JPII
These passages are relevant today, especially in the face of the new forms of poverty in the world, and also because they are affirmations which do not depend on a specific notion of the State or on a particular political theory. Leo XIII is repeating an elementary principle of sound political organization, namely, the more that individuals are defenceless within a given society, the more they require the care and concern of others, and in particular the intervention of governmental authority. – John Paul II
This is why I stopped giving any money to the church. They use my money to 1) pay for their pedophile priests, and 2) lobby politicians to confiscate more of my ‘earned’ money. As such, I just pay my taxes and consider that my tithing obligation. It’s vastly more that 10% and pays for food stamps for our starving yet obese poor, section 8 housing, welfare, AFDC, childcare, full healthcare (notice too how when speaking of individuals paying for Obamacare they say “workers” will pay… they never talk about who will pay for the healthcare of those who don’t or won’t work). Anyway, you get the point. When they pass the basket in church I just pass it along without putting anything in. The church has ensured that I’ll pay vastly more than I care to. Welfare makes slaves of it’s recipients. Think about it.
Are good Catholics who don’t read or care what the popes say really good Catholics?
You mean like when they ignore them when it comes to using contraception and having abortions
Yes, and when they ignore their call for governmental protection and support for the poor, and their call for just wages and conditions for workers as well.
Brian S — define just wages, according to the SEIU?
Why do you want me to define just wage? The Church has done so, anything I say would either repeat Church teaching or be incorrect.
Centesimus Annus discusses its requirements, but so did Rerum Noverum. This isn’t some goofy left-wing notions, Just Wage is a very Catholic notion. You should familiarize yourself with it and not confuse it as the product of an organization you dislike.
Many of us back such legislation, Brian S., so do not put all non Democrats in one basket. Also, how many workers drink in the parking lots of their plants or go to work drunk or on drugs. Those situations, along with some bad CEO’s helped to bring down the auto industry in this country. I know because a worker told me about the good workers having to put with bad co workers, and he was a Democrat by the way. They finally had to do something about it but far too late for some companies. Remember BOTH employers AND workers have obligations toward each other and their comsumers.
The biggest poverty we are facing today is decline in morals and character. Growing up, I saw and lived the poverty of my grandmum, although as children we never felt poor, we felt rich because we lived our Catholic faith to the fullest, we were raised to have a personal relationship with Christ, that the simple things made us feel rich! My grandmum taught us that. The poor had dignity, they didn’t depend on a government nor did they free load. They would give you their last piece of bread if you were their guest in their home. They wore, even as poor as some were, their best clothes to church. They all gathered in their homes praying the rosary and yet no one complained. My grand mum didn’t have a home phone, she was too poor to have one. My mum grew up not having shoes on her feet and now here in the USA, she still has not ever depended on government help, she didn’t feel right taking for what she didn’t earn. But now in her senior years, she is dependent hoping to get what my dad worked hard for, some medical benefits. The poor today have cell phones, better cars and still they want more welfare and more but the honest poor, do not qualify for government not unless you give up your home and car. How is this possible.
Ok. This is where I part friends with my Church.
First, I think the Bishops are naïve. They really do believe that these poor starving people just couldn’t make it without the government providing food, clothing, schools, houses, cars, cell phones, theater tickets… you get the point.
The problem is: THESE PROGRAMS ARE NOW PROVIDING ALL OF THE ABOVE.
Gone are the days when food stamps were meant for 1) People who REALLY needed help, and 2) Basic food like milk, bread, meat and vegetables.
Are you aware that EBT cards, aka FOOD STAMPS, can be used at liquor stores, shoe stores, strip clubs, gas stations… anywhere you can swipe a card????? I was at the grocery store PAYING FOR MY OWN FOOD when this young girl about 18 was getting cash back from her “food stamp debit card.” She got $200 cash back from her debit transaction. I, on the other hand, was trying to decide which of the cheapest hamburger I could afford.
NO. THIS HAS GOT TO STOP! There is need, and then then is STEALING, and the good Bishops have not, or will not, differentiate between the two.
So, because EBT cards can be exchanged at strip clubs, families using them at grocery stores should be penalized? Where is the logic in that?
Brian: Our “poor” are immeasurably rich by any objective standards. Our government encourages sloth and immoral life styles by perpetuating this “war on poverty” that they know they will never win. The purpose of this largesse is to gain votes for the liberal party. Unfortunately, they use the taxpayer’s hard earned cash to attain their objectives.
Anton! “immeasurably rich”! Goodness. Not just “rich” – compared to a Hatiian living in a tent on a dirt floor and to which a house with a floor, central heating, and running water may well be considered luxurious, but yet easily measured – but “immeasurably” rich, a metric associated more easily with Louis XIV, or perhaps George Soros or Bill Gates.
Brian: I grew up in a large city during the 1930’s. We lived in a flat on the 3rd floor of an appartment building. We had city gas and electricity, and a toilet; no hot water, no central heating, no air conditioning, no car, no TV, no refrigerator, no bathtub, no shower. We had a roof over our heads. And yet we were not considered poor. Compare that to the average welfare recipient today.
We do not require people to be destitute before we help them.
Anonymous, I had a college professor at the community college I was attending tell me that I should go to school full time so that I could finish faster. I told him that I could not afford to do that. He suggested that I apply for financial aid at the school. Do you know what I was told there? I was first asked if I had a job. I told them yes I did but that the money I earned was only enough to pay for the room I was renting, gas for my 12 year old car and food and school expenses. I was then told that I could not work for 1 year before I could qualify for school aid. I then asked the financial counselor if all of the students who received financial aid were homeless for a year, because if I gave up my job for a year that would be my situation. (So yes they did expect me to be Destitute!} I only received a blank stare back. I left that office, kept my job and finished my education in 10 years as I could only go to college part time due to my full time job. By the way, at the same time I had a “minority” coworker attending the same college, living in her own apartment, driving a brand new car, sporting a beautiful wardrobe and having tuition and books completely paid for. I can definitely relate to Abecca’s sister’s situation.
Tracy I am sorry that you too had to go through that. I hear that often. My youngest sister is also honest too like you, she is in dept of at least close to $100,000(if not more) for her medical schooling all those years(my mum who is on a fixed income had to co-sign in order for her to get where she is now). I believe she said that some foreign students actually got support in their medical schooling, but they don’t brag about it. I heard too that the bombers also had free education from our tax money. My younger sister, just worked hard and is keeping her own dept. She may have qualified for some scholarships because of her excellent grades but it was not enough though. She tries not to think about how some foreigners qualified for most of it …she just focuses in finishing. People talk about how there are programs out there but they are hard to find.
Abeca, the so called “welfare for the poor” programs are none other than a “getting even” program. It is reverse discrimination. It is so sad that the Catholic Bishops endorse this evil. The government is not a charitable organization. Government employees do not have to ask for donations, they simply take the funds they desire through IRS coercion. Other government employees divvy these funds out to those they prefer to give to. They also punish those they prefer to punish.
Yes Brian.
During the depression there were bread lines. Food was passed out to hungry people. They didn’t have cards on which unearned money (my money) magically appeared every month. Besides, the families(?) (what families?) who receive these… their children already get free breakfasts and lunches at school. If the church is what it professes to be, instead of advocating for government to take more of my money so parents can spend my money in strip clubs (remember, their kids ate at school) Churches should be providing charity themselves, not spending my tithing on lobbying politicians on social justice issues. The Churches should be providing for social justice, not the government.
Louis IVX didn’t have a toilet! I guess your ’30’s apartment was more luxurious than Versailles.
Our bishops are talking the spotlight talk of asking the U.S. House of Representatives to not cut food stamps. This is a pretty easy sounding trade off for never staying at home to humbly walk the walk of the teaching example of personal holiness. Sell the mansions with jacuzzi tubs. Sell all of the income properties where the hangout parties occur. Use this money to feed the poor. So far your actions speak so loudly that the laity cannot hear what you are saying to the US House of Representatives. Don’t just tell us that you care about the hungry, show us that you care by safeguarding the faith while remaining close to your individual flocks. There are many people within each diocese who are just as “starved” for the teaching example of a good and holy father.
VATICAN CITY (AFP) – Pope Francis on Thursday lashed out at what he called the scandal of “airport bishops”, urging his peers to remain rooted in their dioceses and spend less time seeking the spotlight.
The Argentine pontiff, who is very attached to his title as bishop of Rome, said residence in a diocese was “not only necessary for organisational purposes but had theological roots.”
“You are betrothed to your community, deeply bound to it. I am asking you, please, to remain among your people,” the Pope said at an audience of new bishops from around the world.
“You must stay, stay! Avoid the scandal of airport bishops,” he said.
Bishops are often invited to attend international seminars and conferences but Francis voiced his indignation at reports of bishops who could never make time for their own flock.
“Careerism is a cancer,” the pontiff said, adding that some bishops trying to raise the profile of their diocese reminded him of those men “who are constantly looking at other women more beautiful than their own.”
“Be welcoming pastors… journeying with your people,” he said, urging the new bishops to keep their door open and phone close at hand.
scub, you are badly misrepresenting what the Church says on social justice.
In Centesimus Annus, John Paul II wrote:
“the more that individuals are defenceless within a given society, the more they require the care and concern of others, and in particular the intervention of governmental authority.”
and
“The State must contribute … by defending the weakest, by placing certain limits on the autonomy of the parties who determine working conditions, and by ensuring in every case the necessary minimum support for the unemployed worker.”
John Paul could hardly have been more clear. Your opinion is differs, but it is your own.
The Pope can claim infallibility in his authoritative and binding teaching capacity, not in everything he says or teaches. He is given this authority such as the Council of Trent or a solemn Papal Bull on Faith. His infallibility does not extend to the political arena or the sports arena there he is on his own and can error. Obviously this was one of those errors. Having been brought up in a socialist country may have contributed to his wrong thinking.
Papal encyclicals across the centuries are hardly off-hand remarks at a sports arena, but thanks for clarifying, and in jarring detail, your Protestant position.
You join others who pick-and-choose from the teachings of the Church.
Brian, Papal Bulls and encyclicals are not necessarily infallible declarations. And thank God too, because over time they contradict one another in horrible ways.
The Church itself is infalliable, and expresses that through its ordinary magisterium. It is unfortunate that the extraordinary magisterium confuses some into believing that the clear teachings of the Church are somehow less than the handful of teachings with a specific papal declaration.
The notion that the man who brought down the Soviet Union is a misguided socialist is breathtaking.
In theory I agree with scub…totally….sadly, this is not 1930 america, or 1930 western europe…the reality is that society needs to assist familieds that have children, wno need necessary nitrients to grow grow strong and remain healthy…if not they will become sick, and become an even greater burden to our society…the measure of a civilized society is measured by how well it protects and aids those who are incapable of helping themselves, (such as small, hungry children)…the majority of food stamp recipient’s don’t blow it on strip club usage…they use it to feed hungry little mouths…and even this benefit is frequently inadequate to feed those who are hungry…a little child falling asleep at night with a growling tummy is not what this society was built on or aspires to remain…the deficit is not impacted by food stamps, uh-uh…it has been negatively impacted by lending money to third world countries in the billions, WHO NEVER-EVER PAY IT BACK!
Trillions, not billions…collect some of this money, or stop lending it, and SPEND this surplus money on our own citizenry…I agree, welfare and food stamps should never be a lifestyle, but rather a form of public/federal assistance that is used…prudently, by THOSE who actually need it! Welfare fraud is serious business a felony in fact…clean up the waste, fraud and stream-line the system…years ago I was on food stamps…for THREE MONTHS!…I never made a career out of it…but then again, these were MY BENEFITS!…I am an American, and I payed into the system…it was not and should not be a lifestyle, that is handed down to subsequent family generations…cradle to grave welfare abusers…get my drift?
These bigoted ideas of the poor in America are so anti-Catholic.
I find it laughable that the USCCB will condemn poverty and then in the next breath condemn capitalism, it has lifted more people out of poverty than any welfare program ever did.
When did the USCCB condemn capitalism?
So right! Canisius. Only yesterday Pope Francis condemned “globalization” as an evil condition. Globalization is exactly what has lifted millions out of poverty across the entire world and continues to do so. Sometimes I scratch my head and ask myself what planet do our church fathers live on?
I don’t know if the USCCB has condemned capitalism, but Leo XIII certainly did.
More entertainingly perhaps, but with equal orthodoxy, did G.K. Chesterton.
Throughout, the poor are explained as “other” folks, who haven’t planned or lived well, or have some character flaw that explains why “they”, but not “we” are in need.
I suppose we keep a certain sanity in thinking that the misfortune that has befallen others cannot befall us – even when this requires the denial of reality, illustrated here by stories of family members who cannot get needed medical care and periods of personal food stamp dependence.
For the financially secure, it is important to think that that success is due entirely to their own hard work and talent, and not because of birth or others circumstances beyond their control.
We are not to be the angry workers who, having worked all day, were paid no more than those who joined them later.
“You must remember to love people and use things, rather than to love things and use people.”
― Fulton J. Sheen
Just as he is wrong that there is in fact no means-testing on our present federal food-stamp program, Brian S. is wrong that “Leo XIII condemned capitalism”, an oft-quoted falsehood. If he is referring to Rerum Novarum at most Leo XIII condemned unrestricted capitalism, but LXIII saw the need of the capitalist economic theory in practice (unlike many US bishops today) stating for example: “Each needs the other: capital cannot do without labor, nor labor without capital.” Pius XI went further and specifically stated that Capitalism itself is not condemnable: “With all energy Leo XIII sought to adjust this economic system according to the norms of the right order; hence it is evident that this system is not condemned in itself. And surely it is not of its own nature vicious…” (Quad. Anno) Now THAT is Catholic teaching that the Professional Disinformation Society or PDS DONT want you to know.
More accurately, the Perpetual Disinformation Society.
Whatever happened to fishing skills over the fish as a Catholic Mission?
Steve Phoenix, similar to the communists’ dodge of asserting that “true communism” has never been tried, you are refusing to recognize that Leo condemned a real system, at work against the workers of his time, not a theoretical framework that exists only in the imagination.
That the system which Leo addressed required adjustments (as Pius termed them) to reconcile it with right order simply shows that it was wrongly ordered, hence properly condemned.
So what adjustments do you support? John Paul II advocated that the State should place “certain limits on the autonomy of the parties who determine working conditions”, and these are often, if imperfectly done, by minimum-wage laws, health and safety requirements, limited working hours, compensation for overtime worked, and a host of other matters that our Bishops often support, to the condemnation of CCD posters.
John Paul also called for an adjustment to capitalism when he called for the State to ensure “in every case the necessary minimum support for the unemployed worker”. Yet, here we are, discussing that very adjustment and for supporting it, the Bishops are being called fools and worse, and you are advocating starvation for the unemployed.
As for means testing, most charitiably, you are relying on the differences between administrating states for SNAP eligibility – perhaps claiming that there is no federal test for the federal program. There most certainly are income requirements for food stamps, as anyone who has applied them well knows..
Brian S ignores facts such as: 1st, on food stamps, if one is unemployed, once one obtains food stamps and becomes re-employed, nearly all states make no further check for change of income status. This is what I mean by no means-testing for food stamps, because there effectively is none. The last year for which GAO information is available (2009) showed that there is conservatively $2.2 BILLION in food stamp fraud stemming from these lack of controls. And yet Brian S. says there can be no cuts to food stamps. But most importantly, Brian S. falsely stated “LXIII condemned capitalism.” As pointed out, if there is any doubt in this matter, Pius XI clearly stated Catholic social teaching on this matter, that ‘this system [capitalism] is not condemned in itself,” ending any doubt in the matter. JP2 as your own quotes show did not “condemn capitalism”. The effort to put capitalism on an equally condemned footing with actually condemned systems such as communism/socialism is manifestly a false proposition.
Being able to evade a requirement is not the same as not having a requirement, Steve. To have represented otherwise was simple deception.
Neither did I say that “nothing” could be cut from the food stamp program. I responded to specific anti-Catholic sentiments, including that the unemployed be allowed to starve, and claims that the Church does not call for Governmental support of the poor and unemployed, which it most certainly does.
Your representation of Pius XI, is laughably selective, but thanks for bringing him up. In Quadragesimo Anno Pius strongly calls for governmental support for the poor, indeed he was and is viciously attacked for his vigourous advocacy of the State as an agent of social justice. The State, he said, should “sit on high like a Queen…. intent upon the one common good and justice”, while he condemned as “deadly and accursed the internationalism of finance ….whose country is where profit is”.
Socialism and communism has also been condemned…as has LIBERATION THEOLGY which is a marxist ideolody!…no place for this heresy in the CHURCH!
Brian S needs to read the posts above. No one recommended the starvation of anyone. A straw man argument. Also Brian S is getting defensive, as to be expected, by misrepresenting traditional Catholic social teaching on economic systems; but laugh all he will, he was dead wrong when he said “LXIII condemned capitalism.” Pius XI clarified once and for all that capitalism itself is not condemned. As Stephen J also observes, communism/socialism is in fact condemned by CC teaching. I wonder if Brian S will state that fact. Hmmm?
BTW: No. 117 “Whether considered as a doctrine, or an historical fact, or a movement, Socialism, if it remains truly Socialism, even after it has yielded to truth and justice on the points which we have mentioned, cannot be reconciled with the teachings of the Catholic Church because its concept of society itself is utterly foreign to Christian truth.” Quad Anno, Pius XI. This is one of the Church’s quite specific condemnations of communism/socialism, just for the record. PXI was being quite selective, it appears.
Steve Phoenix approvingly cites “those who do not work shall not eat” and ridicules the “new church” for not enforcing that rule. He then claims I am using a strawman. Ridiculous.
Leo XIII condemned the economics of his day, and outlined ways to reconcile it to justice. While Steve emphasizes capitalism’s reconcilability, he opposes the very measures Leo and his successors recommended to reconcile it – which most certainly included governmentally-funded income assistance.
Steve’s emphasis on the theoretical might might be relevant if he were arguing with a communist, or a socialist, but not with an orthodox Catholic.
VIVA RUSSIA Brian S.
Ahhhh. Brian S, it was St Paul who stated “..Those who will not work should not eat.” (2 Thess 3:10) If one can disregard S Paul as an authority, nothing really matters, does it? Also, do please note, your statement that “Leo XIII condemned capitalism” is a falsehood as we’ve abundantly shown. It seems your “orthodoxy” is mysteriously slanted in favor of modern leviathan state socialism, which is completely inimical to true Catholic belief (Pius XI, Pius XII, etc).
Not so mysteriously, I slant to the wide distribution of property, as my reference to G.K. Chesterton might have indicated. It is quite an orthodox view of economics.
If you insist on seeing the world as FOX News versus Commies, you will be consistently misled by the deadly and accursed of finance, even as you turn your backs on the Popes.
As for your tightening grasp upon the reed of your claim that Leo did not condemn capitalism “in itself” – take comfort in it.
Leo condemned a system – called capitalism by its supporters – for its inhumane treatment of people as industrial inputs, and you support that inhumanity.
He attempted to reconcile it it through the enforcement of state-standards and assistance, and you oppose those reconciliations.
Ahhh, Brian S is the one who is “tightening his grasp” strangely on his pro-socialist “Catholic” social justice theory. It was Pius XI (Quad Anno) whose purpose was to refute claims that the Church had condemned capitalism “in itself”, his quote. Pius XI, once again (just to nettle Brian S.) said capitalism was not condemned by Catholic belief { ‘this system [capitalism] is not condemned in itself’ = an exact quote from Quad Anno. } but communism and socialism specifically were (see exact quotes above). Between LXIII’s writing Pacem in Terris and Quad Anno, a little event happened in 1917 in Russia. The rules had changed about social welfare and the obligations of the state. Neither LXIII nor PXI had any intention of endorsing today’s massive gargantuan social state monster as it exists now in the US and Europe. But Brian S would rather employ the Alinsky-ite tactic of demonizing his critics (“Fox News”-types, “children-starvers”, when in fact his views are strangely tilted toward love and devotion to the present post-Leninist socialist state, hardly toward Chesterton; much more re-distributionist, not distributive theory at all (Where does the food stamp $$ come from, after all?). Intergenerational welfare, sky-rise Sec 8 housing (“a fundamental right”), state-run health care, and now food stamps on demand to all. Or does now Mr Brian agree food stamps should be cut—or does he not? And yet the point of Bp Blaire is that food stamps are yet another “fundamental right”. To everyone. No limits. Where did we get to this point in “Catholic” social teaching? “Those who do not work should not eat.” 2 Thess 3:10, some guy named S Paul.