The following comes from a Jan. 28 story in the New Boston Post.
The archbishop of New York has no plans to excommunicate New York Governor Andrew Cuomo from the Roman Catholic Church for signing a bill making abortion legal in that state up to the moment of birth, saying he thinks it would backfire.
Cardinal Timothy Dolan, one of the prominent leaders of the Catholic Church in America, addressed the issue during an appearance on Fox & Friends this morning.
Cuomo, a Democrat and a Roman Catholic, asked for the bill, signed the bill, and ordered certain landmarks in the state to be lit up pink to celebrate the bill.
What to do about Catholic politicians who support legal abortion, which the Catholic Church teaches is murder, has rankled bishops, Catholic commentators, and many laypeople since shortly after abortion became legal nationwide in 1973.
Steve Doocy, one of the three hosts of the show, asked Dolan about it Wednesday, January 28. Here’s a transcript of the exchange:
- Steve Doocy: There are calls from people in the Catholic Church for Governor Cuomo to be excommunicated, from the Catholic Church.
- Cardinal Timothy Dolan: You’re telling me. I get wheelbarrows of letters every day. I think that would be counterproductive, myself. For one …
- Steve Doocy: Well, he’s not following Catholic doctrine.
- Cardinal Timothy Dolan: Well, I don’t know if Catholic doc- — but there’s my point, Steve. We would be giving ammo to our enemies who say, ‘This is an internal Catholic disciplinary matter. This is really not civil rights. This is really not biology. These Catholics don’t have freedom when it comes to this.’ I think we’d be giving our enemies ammo….
As a lay person I want clarity. This is an issue of supreme importance. It makes me sick to my stomach.
Clarity is all around you: Don’t have an abortion, even if it’s legal to do so. What’s not clear?
Clarity on why we are accepting this.
Would the same passive line of thinking apply to slavery 200 years ago? Should we have ignored the moral and spiritual evil that slavery was and simply “not owned slaves”? Let those who do continue without a word?
It’s passive, acceptance of today’s societal “norms” that are destroying our humanity. If something is morally wrong it’s is so whether or not it is legal. As a Catholic is we see our brothers and sisters skidding away from moral truths it is out of compassion we must speak out. Not for only our own sake but for the sake of others.
A bishop who doesn’t have the courage to do what he was ordained to do. But wants to keep the perks and comforts of the job. If a famous, powerful Catholic can flout Catholic doctrine and still be considered a Catholic, then what does being Catholic mean anymore? Why do the bishops bother to teach anything if they’re not going to enforce those teachings, not even with letters of reprimand to people who commit grave evil and cause scandal? Does the Church not mean anything to these bishops? Does Catholic faith not mean anything? Is it just a game of pretending to believe and “oh, well” to those who stay in the Church while rejecting its beliefs?
Remember the Church right before the Council– let’s say, about 1960. The Church was daily big and bold about her teachings– and made lots of people mad, too, who wanted to do wrong! The Church was under good discipline– and didn’t care who disagreed with Christ’s teachings. So what, if you disagree?? That’s life!
In this game of chess it’s turning out that bishops are weaker than pawns. But queens are indeed the most powerful of all. And the game board is rainbow colored. Dolan is worried about giving the church’s enemies ammo by being faithfully the church? Hello? The enemies of the church are close to saying checkmate.
I worry what God would give you, Crdl Dolan.
I admire Cardinal Dolan, but he is wrong here. As long as the ammo round is aimed directly at Cuomo, he could work with his fellow NY bishops and excommunicate. All excommunication is spiritually predicated upon one end: to get the heretic or public sinner to repent and come home. Phrased this way, it is medicinal, not vindictive… or counterproductive, as Dolan puts it. By the way, counterproductive to what? Unpacking this statement, I fear Dolan is hiding behind his own worries of being unpopular and perhaps not invited to the brie-nibbling and chardonnay sipping liberal caste of NYC.
Fr. John
Would you please cite the canon law that would permit Cardinal Dolan to excommunicate him?
Anonymous– see Canon 915. Also, Gov. Cuomo is divorced, and living in sin with a girlfriend. A very bad “Catholic” politician!
Canon 1369
My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that when canon law does not specifically cite excommunication as the penalty, it is not the appropriate penalty. (1369)
On Canon 915- that is already in effect because of his living in sin.
Think of Herod and St. Peter.
Would St. Peter says to Herod, yes, come share the body and blood of Christ with us, even though you persecute believers and do not live the values of our community?
No, St. Peter was a light in darkness.
Dolan is weak. The laity today cannot look to clergy for spiritual guidance on faith and morals. We must pray more often, read God’s Word more often, and wait and listen to the movements of the Holy Spirit.
People confuse excommunication with not being able to receive communion.
More cowardice…. they will not even deny Cuomo communion
He cannot present himself for Communion.
The bishops failure to act is like the Church is a dysfunctional family. Wanting to ignore abusive and bad behavior, hoping it somehow goes away on its own and fearing that addressing it or challenging it will make things worse. The bishops are completely afraid to do their jobs and be assertive. By not doing anything, they worsen things. Appeasement never works. Never.
People have to realize that Dolan has no internal convictions. His whole life he has been political. And he simply does not care what anyone else thinks.
How did this bill even make it to his desk? I can’t believe that a majority of New Yorkers support abortion until birth. If anyone has poll numbers, I’d love to see them.
As to denying Cuomo communion, I don’t know whether the Cardinal should or shouldn’t, but I’m pretty sure the decision shouldn’t rest on whether it gives plitical opponents “ammo”.
I hastily thought too that Cuomo must be excommunicated, but I am hearing that the canon law procedure for excommunication is not so simple, and now agree with Cardinal Dolan that Cuomo needs prayers not excommunication. Cuomo has a record of challenging Catholic doctrine and he would probably relish being a VICTIM of public excommunication by the Church. Satan would love it! If Catholics are so outraged, let’s see them vote these pro-aborts out of office.
Louise– Cuomo is divorced, living with a girl– and both he and his girlfriend, have for many years publicly supported abortion! He has been waiting to gleefully sign this evil bill into law! Then– he had lots of public “celebrations” over it– and declared, as Governor– that the World Trade Center be lit up with pink lights, as part of the wicked “celebration!” YES– he ought to have been excommunicated a long time ago, along with Rep. Nancy Pelosi, and many others!
Many many others including Rudy Guiliani and Donald Trmp.
Trump isn’t Catholic!
Therfore he gets a pass? Really?
Trump has committed many sins. But Trump is not Catholic.
Again– Trump is not Catholic. This is about wayward “Catholic” politicians.
So Trump gets a pass? And what about Rudy?
I. Corinthians V:XII-XIII
For what have I to do to judge them that are without? Do not you judge them that are within? For them that are without, God will judge. Put away the evil one from among yourselves.
Louise –
Cuomo is demonstrably heretic. He can be and should be excommunicated for heresy.
It would also do a great deal for lay people like us who are looking for strength and leadership from our shepherds.
pour encourager les autres
He makes sound like that he is for the babies when he is not how sad when a church leader will not stop Murder of children he is complicit with these murders
Cardinal: you’re giving the enemy ammo by not doing anything. You’re reinforcing that the church hierarchy is toothless and that following morality is optional at best and a joke at worst, which will invite more gravely evil acts done with impunity.
In agreement with F. John’s above comment! As a life long faithful Catholic woman (nurse by profession) I am disgusted with Cardinal Dolan’s weak response to this horrifying law signed by Governor Cuomo! I will always speak THE TRUTH as a follower of Christ and the truth is……ABORTION IS MURDER AND THE SHEPHERDS OF MY CHURCH ARE OBVIOUSLY AFRAID TO “SHEPHERD THE FLOCK”, NOT COURAGEOUSLY STEPPING FORWARD AND SPEAKING THE TRUTH, FOR FEAR OF LOSING THEIR “STATUS” IN THE POLITICAL SOCIAL CIRCLES AND $$$$$! Jesus did instruct his followers that “those who are lukewarm I will spew from my mouth”! The laity in the pews are actively listening and observing the various responses of our church leadership and this Catholic woman…
Gov. Andrew Cuomo divorced his wife, mother of his three children, Kerry Kennedy, who is the daughter of Robert Kennedy and Ethel Skakel Kennedy. Gov. Cuomo now lives with his girl friend, Sandra Lee I believe her name is. His vigorous support of abortion at any time and for any reason up to the day of natural birth at nine months is a grievous sin. He is serving his third term as Governor of New York State.
So is Donald Trump’s repeated daliances with porn stars and others, which I’m sure resulted in more than a few abortions.
Donald Trump does not claim to be Roman Catholic. He is not subject to Canon Law.
But if the Church is going to create public sanctions for politicians, then it should do so equally and not pick and choose which ones to publicly chastise.
Should the Church excommunicate the President of China?
What does that say of New York voters!
Not only doesn’t practice what he preaches, he doesn’t preach.
Cardinal Dolan is leading a lot of Catholics to hell who cannot seem on their own to figure out the abortion issue.This isn’t just about Catholic pro-abort “politicians,” but also many thousands of their staffers, nationwide in state and federal government, who call themselves Catholic and go through life supporting these scumbags everyday in their work. I know what this is to suffer in my own family.
Hope this gets printed! Cardinal Dolan is doing great wrong– and misleading millions of people! With Church approval! He is not fit for the clergy, to begin with!
https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/08/cuomos-right-to-holy-communion-is-a-private-matter-bishop-says/
I saw several interviews with Cardinal Dolan and Bishop Hubbard– very bad Catholic clerics, both!
I have read many news stories, in the past (prior to the Council) — where rich and famous Catholic New Yorkers went to see either Cardinal Spellman or Bishop Sheen, begging for some kind of “special” consideration, so they could get a divorce! They were given counsel– and flatly told: “No!’
In bygone days– before Vatican II– I recall reading many news stories, of rich and famous Catholic New Yorkers, begging either Cardinal Spellman or Bishop Sheen– for “special consideration,” for a divorce! They all were counseled– and flatly told: “NO!” The Church was serious! And men in the clergy– were Real Men, in those days!! Miss those days!!
I would have loved to witnessed those days and to know that all Catholic Churches taught the same doctrine. To know that the Tridentine mass was available, confession was offered before mass, the reverence, the liturgy ect ect ect.
the liturgy ect ect ect? What does that even mean?
Etc means et cetera. Et cetera means that more of the same sort might have been mentioned but has been omitted for brevity. If kids would stay in school, they would know stuff like this when they become adults.
Just do the right thing and publicly tell him he is going against the Church. At least that! Be courageous and tell the truth and take the licks as they come. It goes with the territory if you are a faithful Catholic. And pray for Cuomo.
People who don’t do their jobs don’t get paid. So no collection money for you, Cardinal.
Anonymous– see Canon 915. Also, Gov. Cuomo is divorced, and living in sin with a girlfriend. A very bad “Catholic” politician!
“Phrased this way, it is medicinal, not vindictive… or counterproductive, as Dolan puts it. By the way, counterproductive to what? Unpacking this statement, I fear Dolan is hiding behind his own worries of being unpopular and perhaps not invited to the brie-nibbling and chardonnay sipping liberal caste of NYC.” Fr. John
Well spoken Fr. John. Cuomo should be excommunicated. Let him play the martyr. Such vainglory wears thin all too soon. When the novelty wears off, the seriousness of his sin will become apparent.
SIN requires a very serious response by the Church! People get HURT– and EVEN KILLED (abortion)!! — because of SIN!! SIN is very serious! Our Church leaders have lost their understanding of SIN– and the responsibility of the Church, to take SIN seriously– and combat it, at all costs! Maybe they should all be replaced– by better Catholic clerics!! Where is the RESPECT for Jesus Christ– in the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist?? Here we have former Altar Boy, Gov Andrew Cuomo– who is so badly in need of Christian “tough love discipline,” from his Church!
The laity is holier than the clergy.
By his lifestyle, Governor Cuomo is not a practicing Catholic, so if Cardinal Dolan were to take disciplinary action it would have very little impact. The NY abortion law is horrific…but so are so many things in our society: racism and prejudice, poverty, homelessness, obscene salaries and profits for the wealthy, hunger, sex abuse… the signs of human sinfulness just goes on and on.
Behemoth— many so-called “Catholic” politicians, like Gov. Cuomo, Rep. Pelosi, and many others– say that they are Catholic! They have not left the Church! That is dishonest!!
If Cardinal Dolan and Bishop Hubbard– were to take action — it would have a tremendous impact! That’s why they don’t
do it! They are too scared that violent liberal activists would tear them to pieces! And tear the Church to pieces, too! By contrast– many Christians in other parts of the world — die standing up for the Faith! And their heroic deaths bring admirers and many converts!
Dolan saw comedian Kevin Hart get dumped as Oscar host and figured “no way am I gonna lose my Al Smith Dinner gig.”
Why is anyone surprised by this? Catholic Church leaders in America ( with a few exceptions) are spineless power grabbing, want-to-be-liked-by-politicians-and-media careerists, who abandoned teaching and defending faith long time ago, in the sixties to be more precise.
By their fruits we should know them. What are the fruits of your “leadership” Dolan and Co?
Lost sheep, empty churches and seminaries, devastation everywhere. But as long as their pictures are in the papers and on TV and their friends in media and politics are happy, who cares about the Church?
As bad as this is, and as feckless as Cardinal Dolan is, it’s not as bad as what Archbishop Gomez does. Dolan is merely failing to respond to a dissident governor in his jurisdiction. Gomez actively invites dissidents to give talks at the Religious Education Congress. Which is worse? Failing to respond or actively promoting heterodoxy?
A priest can get into serious trouble with his Cardinal if his parishioners burn a rainbow flag. If you are involved in a mass murder campaign against innocent babies, your Cardinal does not care. Apparently he has bigger things to worry about, like hunting down priests who say Latin Masses and punishing them.
This is a great point.
Thank you my brother anonymous. I appreciate your efforts to keep the trolling anonymous in check.
Well, Anonymous– that is what we all are!– “anonymous!” Nobody cares! See if your local bishop cares. They had the Superbowl today– I think lots of Catholics went to see that, or watched it on TV– and skipped Mass, today– Just wait until the next tragic “gay” St. Patrick’s Day Parade– or the
Al Smith Dinner (coordinated by a nice lady who told me she is Jewish!) Both are attended today, by lots of anti-Catholic public figures!! Not Catholic anymore.
That’s because the biggest sin for many of the hierarchy is to offend the Left. Burning a gay flag offends the left, so you incur the hierarchy’s wrath. Supporting abortion? Hierarchy says meh. Decrying Catholics who oppose abortion laws? That offends the Left so the hierarchy will tell you you’re bad for making abortion supporters feel like they aren’t good Catholics.
Cardinal Dolan cowers in the corner, arguing he should not sanction Cuomo with excommunication (devised to return the sinner to the faith to avoid Hell); the flock given to his charge seem to be forgotten, left to fend for themselves. Jorge Bergoglio tells the youth to “make a mess” in the Church, elevates publicly heterodox churchmen, and creates havoc and confusion by constantly contradicting basic Catholic teaching and logic, in word and in deed. He has scandalized the flock much more than the former Catholic, Andrew Cuomo. I pray from him daily, but also greatly fear him.
These three, by their public actions and statements, suffer from the same malady as most in…
Well…I wonder what’s worse…giving ammo to your enemies or to your friends…
There are some friends I would not want to give ammo to.
For clarity in reading the comments, please refrain from posting as “Anonymous”, as there are at least three using that tag. Also, and this is for the Editor, please insert arrows that will allow readers to vote Agree/Disagree with comments. Thank you.
Maeve– just relax! Not important! Don’t read what you don’t care for! None of this is important! And it won’t change the church– it is out of everyone’s hands. Send a personal letter to Cardinal Dolan– see if he agrees with you, on whatever your point of view is, regarding Gov. Cuomo. Will he care to write you a nice reply??
Cdl. Dolan is already compromised by those clergy who are directly under his disciplinary jurisdiction. Why should he act on Governor Cuomo, a lay person:
https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/ceo-of-nys-mother-cabrini-health-foundation-tainted-by-scandal
what good is salt that has lost its flavor?
They sell the baby parts for medical experimentation. At term some good replacement young organs with great growth potential can be sold for added value. Infanticide is legal now, next they will be coming for the elderly as is now law in California.
Smooth-talking hypocrites who are clerics leading today’s Church– will aways find ways around publicly making strong stands against all the sins our society dreams up and commits!!
What good are beliefs or teachings that are optional?
What good are bishops who don’t teach or enforce?
What good is a faith that has no consequence?
As it is lived by many, Catholicism seems to be like an outfit that you can wear or not as it suits your fancy, and if you wear it fine and if you don’t wear it or only wear some of it, that’s just fine too. So what does it matter?
The Cardinal has only ONE person to be accountable for and that is the Almighty Creator. May HE have Mercy on your soul! Be an Apostle of Christ instead of a politician Cardinal!