The following excerpt comes from a September 15 story in the New York Times.
The evening was billed as an opportunity to hear two Catholic celebrities discuss how joy and humor infuse their spiritual lives. They both delivered, with surprises and zingers that began the moment the two walked onstage. Mr. Colbert went to shake Cardinal Dolan’s hand, but the cardinal took Mr. Colbert’s hand and kissed it — a disarming role reversal for a big prelate with a big job and a big ring.
Cardinal Dolan was introduced as a man who might one day be elected pope, to which he said, “If I am elected pope, which is probably the greatest gag all evening, I’ll be Stephen III….”
Some journalists were admitted as guests, and the cone of silence was shattered when many students and an editor from the Catholic magazine Commonweal sent out live posts on Twitter narrating the most memorable one-liners.
Mr. Colbert shed his character for the evening and offered several sincere insights into how he manages to remain a faithful Catholic while making fun of his own religion and most others.
“Are there flaws in the church?” Mr. Colbert said, “Absolutely. But is there great beauty in the church? Absolutely.”
He said he did not make jokes about the sacraments, or put a picture of the crucifixion on screen. But he said he liked to poke fun at the use and misuse of religion, especially in politics. “Then I’m not talking about Christ,” he said, “I’m talking about Christ as cudgel.”
Mr. Colbert is the youngest of 11 children, raised by Catholic parents who both attended Catholic colleges. His father and two of his brothers died in a plane crash when Mr. Colbert was 10. He said that after the funeral, in the limousine on the way home, one of his sisters made another sister laugh so hard that she fell on the floor. At that moment, Mr. Colbert said he resolved that he wanted to be able to make someone laugh that hard.
He is raising his children as Catholics, and he teaches Sunday school at his parish in New Jersey. “The real reason I remain a Catholic is what the church gives me, which is love,” he said.
Cardinal Dolan introduced Mr. Colbert’s wife, Evelyn, who was sitting in the audience, and brought her up to the stage. The cardinal put his arm around her and gave her a kiss on the cheek, and when Mr. Colbert feigned offense, the cardinal said, in a remark that brought down the house, “I can kiss your wife. You can’t kiss mine.”
Mr. Colbert used his time onstage with the cardinal to air his complaints about the new English translation of the Mass, which was just introduced in American parishes this year.
“Consubstantial!” Mr. Colbert exclaimed, using a particularly cumbersome word that is now recited in the Nicene Creed. “It’s the creed! It’s not the SAT prep.”
The audience sent in questions by Twitter and e-mail…. Among them: “I am considering the priesthood. Would it be prudent to avoid dating?”
Cardinal Dolan responded that, on the contrary, “it’s good” to date, partly to discern whether the celibate life of a priest is what you want. Then he added, “By the way, let me give you the phone numbers of my nieces.”
Mr. Colbert said, “It’s actually a great pickup line: I’m seriously considering the priesthood. You can change my mind.”
Another question was even more pointed: “So many Christian leaders spread hatred, especially of homosexuals. How can you maintain your joy?”
Cardinal Dolan responded with two meandering anecdotes — one about having met this week with Muslim leaders, and another about encountering demonstrators outside St. Patrick’s Cathedral.
But Mr. Colbert’s response was quick and unequivocal. “If someone spreads hate,” he said, “then they’re not your religious leader.”
To read entire story, click here.
This is truly a disgrace! Jesus help us!
Read Be Holy:
1. A Catholic’s Guide to the Spiritual Life Father Thomas G. Morrow,
2. Called to Be Holy
1. Call to Holiness by Dr. Robert Fastiggi
You can buy these at Ave Maria Radio shop on line.
Last but not least: Don’t forget to buy An Introduction to the Devout Life
By: St. Francis de Sales can be bought on TAN BOOKS!
A charitable Donation would be to buy these and send to Archbishop Dolan too! God help us!
oops sorry I forgot to add this also by TAN BOOKS:
The Twelve Steps to Holiness and Salvation
By: St. Alphonsus Liguori
God bless you!
Thank you abeca! Is the Called to Be Holy the one by Cardinal Dolan. The book I have started is a 7 week program by bishop Mornaeu called A New Heart: 11 Qualities of Holiness.
No it was not by Cardinal Dolan. The way these scandals have been so consistent, I wouldn’t read any book from Cardinal Dolan, and i do not mean to come of as disrespecting.
k, do you see Cdl D becoming holy?
JLS, I have never met him.
It’s no wonder our faith is not taken seriously! How can we respect our church leadership when they lack holiness! They are to lead! How can I fault Catholics when this is the horrible example they are receiving!
Oh wow, the bitter reactionaries on this forum are sure to spew some real vitriol at Cardinal Dolan after reading that! Maybe a “tlm” (EF Mass) at St. Patrick’s will fix everything?
In reality I like Dolan very much and I think he has been an effective leader. Certainly more than someone like Brukewitz or Burke. My only concern is that I am afraid that Dolan might fall into love with being famous. That truly does scare me. One wrong comment and the vulchers are going to eat him alive. We have watched several priests fall after becoming famous via EWTN. I hope the good cardinal is able to dial it back a bit while remaining the effective communicator that he is.
Rodda…..now just reverse your “bitter reactionaries on this forum” comment. Sounds like you could be a very good bitter reactionary against Brukewitz and Burke, probably even the Holy Father. Get a grip. It isn’t about “liking” Rodda. You sound like a pretty good vulture yourself, and on the big smooth easy road to you know where. What is wrong with you?
Carolyn, a reactionary is someone who wants things to return to the way they were at a previous time. I am one.
k, You are correct. I should have said, “very good bitter radical.” instead. I am not a reactionary, the church is in the present, the here and now…I love it. It speaks Truth loud and clear. It is the radicals that are not happy with the Church. They think hatred is spewed because folk have strong feelings about those who are trying to change the ex cathedra authority of the Pope..which will never happen. They are rebellious, and angry. Do they blaspheme against the Holy Spirit? Only God will make the final judgement. I can remember it being said that if a person does not repent, and refuses the Mercy of God, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit,such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss. Words of John Paul II. Confession, confession. I wonder how many radical Catholics go to confession once a month? It is that important!
Carolyn, do you want the nation to return to things the way they were at a previous time?
k, I do not want to return to the past. I am looking forward to the future, but the Lord told us to live in the present. We have the Deposit of Faith, the Paraclete and the promise, that the gates of hell will not prevail against Christ’ Catholic church. We have our beautiful Blessed Mother also. It is a time of testing, the Grace of God is sufficient, but many or most do not want the TRUTH. What is coming is hard, but the Church will be more brilliant then ever.
Nothing is wrong with me. I just don’t care for the ignorant reactionaries who spew hatred on this forum day after day.
R.B. Rodda, You got pummeled pretty good there for a spell. I am sorry if I was a bit nasty, I really don’t know your views. It sounds though like you do not like the more “traditional church.” I am a Latin Mass goer, but I am a Novus Ordo Mass goer. I enjoy Gregorian chant, and I also like a flute at Mass. I have never received Communion in the hand, but do not resent those who receive in the hand. These are things that the Vatican has allowed, and I have accepted. There are many other examples. On the point of faith and morals, that is the same, the Vatican is against abortion, artificial birth control, all sex outside of marriage, only marriage between a man and a woman is allowed, no women Priests are allowed and I could go on also. I have accepted these mandates as TRUTH from the Magisterium. I am finding that this seems to be the big problem…not accepting what comes from the Magisterium. Everyone is restless. Many on this blog site, myself included, do voice their opinion loudly when it comes to dissident faithful, dissident religious and Priests and Bishops that don’t speak up. We worry about the loss of souls. Caring about loss of souls is a good thing, prayer is the best antidote. The main thing on a personal level is to love the Catholic Church and follow its teachings. The wild winds will blow, but the Pillar and the Bulwark of the Truth will never collapse!
Well, this “reactionary” happens to think that God uses different strokes for different folks to bring them to Christ. In other words, it takes different types of personalities to get across the Gospel to different people. After all the Good Lord used both jolly saints and grumpy ones to accomplish what was needed for his Church down through the centuries, so if you, Rodda, do not knock such men as Archbishop Bruskewitz and Cardinal Burke, I will not knock Cardinal Dolan. Agreed? After all St. Jerome was a grumpy saint but did much good for the Church and St. Thomas More was a jolly saint, even making a joke about his beard when they were executing him.
So far Archbishop Dolan is the happy faced buddy to all and the effective communicator leader of Rodda. Obama sure as day fooled the perennially joke cracking Cardinal. It was so effective that Obama received another dinner invite for more light moments and joviality. Effective communicator says Rodda? Serving up his own nieces as trial dates for considering celibacy? That was extremely inappropriate and even more imprudent than the cheesehead homily incident.
Obama shows up on Letterman, Romney appears on Jay Leno and Cardinal Dolan keeps up with the politicians and does Colbert. If we did not know any better it appears that there is some very foolish pride abounding. Yes, as one poster once wrote, “He’s a HOOT and he loves milk (= milquetoast) and cookies.”
Never mind that we are on the verge of losing our religious freedom, that’s not that serious, what counts the most is that everyone had a absolute ball.
Can anyone remember the voice in the wilderness named St. John the Baptist cracking imprudent jokes about sandal fastening and locusts?
Catherine I think that Rodda would love to have Obama over for dinner too…
It is truly sad… isn’t it Abeca? I think you are right. Our poor Rodda might have never been taught that the minute the father of lies has won some poor soul over to help with his evil bidding, that same poor soul will eventually be discarded and thoughtlessly kicked to the curb. That won’t include dinner, just the possible price of losing eternal life.
God is not fooled by those who are secretly supporting evil. God is not constrained or threatened with electioneering rules. Our country, at this time, still has freedom of speech. There are also nations who want to have our freedom of religion and freedom of speech removed. Should those nations who want to behead us because we are Christians be coddled?
There is nothing new under the sun. Anne Boleyn also once loved and served the wrong king and look what happened to her. She was beheaded on May 19, 1536. I am sure that during Anne and Henry VIII early illicit courtship, no one could have convinced Anne either, that she was running towards her own ruin. Anne was lured by “the trappings” that she thought would improve her life. What a heavy price to pay for serving someone who refused to serve God first.
Ultimately it is God’s Supreme and Final Vote that will inform us which heavenly reward or which HOT cramped booth we will be spending our eternity in. I guess you might ask yourself…. Hmmm… Is this the kind of HOT, tight, dark, cramped quarters that I want to spend my eternity in?
Catherine I agree. It’s sad that some of us are fooled and some are not. I would look at pride as being the main reason for this indifference. I wouldn’t be surprised if Obama felt ill resentments towards those who are more traditional. Obama may just be a step away from being another Catholic, like the ones we know today who are misleading many souls.
Catherine also it was Obama’s administration who labeled conservative Christians Terrorist…or something like that…isn’t Rodda setting that same passage of thought towards those who are more traditional and conservative?
k please stop making victims out of people? Rodda is not a victim…I’m sure she can handle her own….unlike some people…
You may be right about Cardinal Dolan not being in the same league as Bishop Bruskewitz or Cardinal Burke. If so, I’ll take the latter two over the former any day. “My only concern is that I am afraid that Dolan might fall into love with being famous.” I’m afraid he already HAS, R.B. In fact he seems to be making far more waves through showboating than any meaningful changes he may have made. “I hope the good cardinal is able to dial it back a bit while remaining the effective communicator that he is.” And just what has he effectively communicated? The New York legislature steamrolled him on the gay marriage issue. President Obama did the same on the health care-mandate issue. The only thing he has effectively communicated to me is that he seems to be an easily-manipulated, useful fool for the left.
Larry glad you stated those facts, that is something Rodda lacks, the deeper part of substance, what really matters in obtaining sanctifying graces. I think that most people live on what is visual and present here but forget that the flesh will soon die and someday we will have to and pray for obtaining heaven….Jesus Help us to see what truly matters here and what is at stake.
Rodda, you’re the only reactionary here; your knee jerks immediately and your posts have no substance to them, no reasoning process, no facts. Perhaps you imagine that people who are well informed, think fast, and know how to construct an argument are “reactionary”. Too bad you messed up your schooling; tell us what did you do instead of learn?
Rodda JLS is right, do you think we are ignorant and just shoot blank bullets? Don’t you have a thinking process that understands that some people actually place their facts together and actually care to get to heaven…don’t you comprehend what is really at stake here….all these temporary things are nothing, they are useless. God have mercy on us all.
Is telling the truth about homosexuals and their lifestyle hatred????
Larry, Cardinal Dolan is a defender of traditional marriage from what I have read so far. I think he is just referring to those who go overboard the other way on the LBGT issues, such as those from certain “churches” who stand out in front of funerals for fallen soldiers with signs that say God hates f- gs and got hates homosexuals and so forth. No God does not hate anyone but hates the sins they do and calls them to repentance. Standing outside of funerals of people whom they do not even know and doing such a thing is not Christlike.and horribly inconsiderate of grieving families. Also, there are Catholics who are living sinful lives — such as living in heterosexual sin without marriage — who bash homosexuals. We all have the right to call sin sin, but we must make sure our own house is clean, too., and we do not go too far the other way. I know it is hard when there is so much “in your face” advocacy of evil, but do it we must.
These activities at funerals are infinitesimal in their quantity and significance compared to the scope of the societal disintegration they purport to oppose. In reality, they’re a reverse psychology distraction used by the devil to attack traditional mores and the people who hold them. If focus on these things is important to Dolan, then he ends up taking the bait himself. As far as his efforts to play comedian go, he just comes off looking like a clown.
Rambler I fear your post was far better than mine trying to see just what Cardinal Dolan is trying to do. Mixed messages he is sending, one cannot disbute. Our nation is truly in a crisis of faith and good morals.
Anne T.–you are referring to the “Reverend” Fred Phelps, whose actions as a lawyer, by the way, I had occasion to cover as a reporter for a radio station in Topeka, Kansas in the late 1970’s. The man never ceased to astound and appall people, not only by his contempt for legal ethics and common decency, but also by the outlandishness and sheer viciousness with which he threw that contempt in everyone’s faces. I still remember the afternoon of July 20, 1979 when the Kansas Supreme Court permanently disbarred him from practicing in the state courts because he had conducted what the Supreme Court called “a personal vendetta” against a court stenographer who had been slow to furnish a trial transcript to him in another case. “The seriousness of the present case coupled with his previous record leads this court to the conclusion that respondent has little regard for the ethics of his profession,” read the disbarment ruling. We quoted that line several times in our newscasts that day. Practically everyone in the Shawnee County Courthouse was gleeful that Phelps had finally gotten his comeuppance. Since then, Phelps has led his “church” in a similar manner to the way he’d conducted his 15-years of legal practice. By the way, that “church” consists mainly in his extended family. There is no danger whatsoever that his tactics will become popular either with the public or Catholics, and Cardinal Dolan–if he was doing so–was wasting his time and ours rebuking that outfit. Dolan has better things to do–and he should get about doing them.
By the way, my comment on Phelps is from the other Larry–not the one from RI.
Reverend Phelps is a scary man. Before Matthew Shepherd was murdered I had never heard of him and honestly I didn’t know that so-called Christian people like him existed. To me he and others like him are the antithesis of Christianity. I remember then feeling some kind of comfort that Catholics didn’t think like that guy. At the time I knew that many priests were gay and in my mind most Catholics were tolerant and accepting of gay people.
Same old, same old…..you know what, if you know what I mean. Of course this article does come from the NYT…so it must be discerned with precision! All I had to do was read certain
excerpts, that was enough. Word cudjel? Isn’t that a club or stick? “So many Christian leaders spread hatred. especially of homosexuals. How can you maintain your joy.” I must be a nut! NYT loves to get the jabs in don’ t they? Guess I’ m not quite as jolly as the rest of the faithful. Heck with Mideast news, abortion murder, corrupt government, high food and gas prices, rising Chritian haters
I don’ t want a jolly Cardinal. I can’t stand the NYT. Did I read the word cudgel (stick/club?) Did I read Christian leaders spread hatred..homosexual? Did I perceive a note of catholic disdain cloaked in humor? The whole world is going to hell in a hand basket, guess I’m just not amused.
Oh such fun. Let’s have a beer.
Amchurch burns, but a good time was had by all . . .
Colbert is not a Catholic that I would want to have teaching my grandchildren CCD. I have heard of some of his not-so-funny remarks attacking our Roman Catholic Church and as someone that loves a good clean laugh, he is not funny. +JMJ+
Sometimes comedy can be used to teach.
Fordham U does not use the CCC as a required student text – to insure accuracy and completeness.
Fordham U does not require the Mandatum for all those teaching Theology in a College or University that professes to be “Catholic”. The Mandatum is required by Canon Law 812.
Fordham is a Jesuit institution. No further comment.
Maybe the Cardinal ought to go into show business—he’s better at silly one-liners than serious moral teachings. No wonder young people are leaving the Church.
Cardinal Dolan has a great sense of humor. Unfortunately, photos of him and Obama smiling at the upcoming dinner will help reelect one who is pushing the killing of unborn babies!!
Joel Fago, this is all the fear of faithful Catholics, Humor can be great, and even the Lord Jesus Christ used it at times in some of his sayings, but only at the proper time, and in the right manner and to get across the right point.What Cardinal Dolan is trying to do here is just so confusing.
We need the Cardinal to be less jovial and stop trying to make friends with people who hate Christ…. The Bishops in this country (except for a few) are joke, we have legions of so called public Catholics who openly defy Church teaching and not a single so much as a reprimand of denial of communion. I was watching a Man for All Seasons just last night as was struck by the fact that every English Bishop (except for St. Joh Fisher) sided with King Henry VIII.. Their treachory echoes through the ages….
The word, “inbred”, comes to mind, when reviewing this stuff. How refreshing the pagan mindset compared this this hogwash!
Gee, call me crazy, but I believe that this wasn’t the greatest pairing of “religious” leaders I’ve read of. Colbert is best known for sticking it to conservatives, religious or otherwise, over quite a few things. And I think if one looks hard enough through the lame-steam media, Colbert’s rigid liberalism will quickly surface. I KNOW he’s a Catholic liberal of the passive-aggressive template and his last line re the “gay” agenda, is VERY telling, because the question that triggered it was nothing but a set-up to entrap the questionee in an endless, if possible, dialogue about “hating” homosexuals. Like the famous question, “when did you stop beating your wife?” Hey, I never STARTED, I just don’t agree that the gay lifestyle is all about matters of “whom one chooses to love.” Asserting one’s Catholic/Christian convictions is NOT about “hating” anyone; it’s about “REPROVING the sinner.” GOD BLESS ALL, MARKRITE
“REPROVING the sinner!” That is so pre-Vatican II. Shame on you for questioning the wisdom of that non Dogmatic Council.
Do you have any idea how many priests and Religious who teach that have been put in the Liturgical stocks for doing so?
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Cardinal Dolan is a good shepherd indeed, and I think it would be wonderful if he were one day to become our first American pope. The likelihood of the stodgy European hierarchy of cardinals ever to vote in any American as pope is so remote that it actually frees our American cardinals to be themselves and allow us to know them as human beings worthy of our love and admiration, to say nothing of emulation. God bless the good Cardinal Dolan, a great gift to American Catholics and a God-given breath of fresh air.
Maryanne L., Cardinal Dolan does NOT enforce Canon 915 amongst the heretics and schimatics who publically advertise themselves as Catholic. And therefore allows Sacrilege against Our Lord, and Scandal – with the ensuing loss of Souls.
(Carolyn Kennedy lives in his Diocese.)
He publically states to the press that he is happy that Joe Biden is a Catholic politician – a known heretic. When Biden’s own Bishop refused to allow Biden to speak in Catholic Diocese Schools.
He does not require his Diocese Priests and Deacons to read or review the CCC.
He does not encourage the reading of the CCC as evidenced by his lack of prominent info on the CCC on his NY Diocese web site, and his Diocese Parish web sites.
He has invited Obama to Al Smith dinner for an evening of: “people of faith gathered in an evening of friendship, civility, and patriotism.” – would he say and do this if Obama was supporting the sucking out of the brains and tearing of the limbs of his brother Bishops with our tax dollars? Yet innocent babies do not deserve the same consideration as Bishops?
No Dolan is NOT Pope material. Sending mixed signals is wrong.
DOTTIE thank you for comments, and people still judge us for not approving of what Cardinal Dolan is doing….with all these facts how can anyone be so cruel to try to discredit our sentiments of his actions. Where did discernment go?
Maryanne Leonard, the Holy Spirit chooses the Pope not us. There are many Latin Americans who would love a Latin American pope and Africans,would love an African, too, but God chooses the Holy Father. America is not the “center of the universe”.
The now the bet is greater than 90% that the next pope will be an Italian due to Holy See politics.
Rodda, do you have any foundation at all to stand on?
Correct Dottie – – – good post.
Dolan is not Pope material.
Sending mixed signals is wrong.
Dottie and MAC I agree…I disagree with Maryanne
The Holy Spirit allows the College of Cardinals to choose the popes. Jesus guarantees the Church but not the popes against the gates of Hell.
Maryanne, “Stodgy European hierarchy”? Give the Holy Spirit a little credit. Are you from Europe? Are the Cardinals there, not allowed to be themselves? Explain that comment, I don’t understand.
“Cardinal Dolan is a good shepherd indeed, and I think it would be wonderful if he were one day to become our first American pope.” He doesn’t stand a chance unless he speaks Italian. The College of Cardinals may have been willing, since 1978, to elect non-Italians–but not non-Italian-SPEAKERS. Is he fluent?
Larry & others – read the facts in Dottie’s post of Sept. 21, 2012 at 11:38 am.
How can you justify – with documentation – Dolan would make a good Pope ? ? ?
Anyone who has the need to be “everyone’s good buddy” has personal issues. Not correcting heretics and schimatics is not charitable.
I was writing tongue-in-cheek, MAC. Although at one time I entertained the notion of Dolan as pope, I no longer believe he is fit material. I started having doubts a long time ago–when it became apparent that he was using his blog to flit from subject to subject without ever giving adequate focus to clearing up the glaring laxity and lack of catechesis among Catholics today.
I agree with everything you said.
I am afraid those that Cardinal Dolan will one day misspeak and in the process he will be crucified by the NY press. They have already tried to take him down. He needs to be more careful.
Cardinal Dolan is proficient in Italian.
Dolan has proven himself a bishop becoming disgusting instead of holy. His jokes were not only wimpish, but sort of effeminate … offering his nieces up to the idol of temptation. How many parents will now loosen the leash on their daughters? Is it any wonder that the sex abuse problem grew so large in the clergy and is taking so long to amputate?
JLS those are great points. I still can’t over this article. Archbishop Dolan needs a heart of conversion. His attitude frightens me. I don’t feel that our faith is safe.
I recall several years ago, I don’t remember what the subject was, but they had a priest come on and give his take on things in a news coverage, the priest they had on there was so bad at conveying a strong Catholic message, that I felt saddened, then they had a fundamentalist Christians speak up and he actually spoke up more loyal with conviction and with morals. There is something gone wrong with our church leadership….many are just lukewarm? Or is there a better word?
Cardinal Dolan, like all Church leaders, is nothing more than a businessman wearing a fancy costume, living in a palace, with maid service and a limo – Prior to Vatican 2, none of this would have been tolerated – No wonder the Church has lost thousands of religious & parishioners – Makes one wonder if Vatican 2 should be reversed as it has been nothing but trouble and gross embarrassment –
“Prior to Vatican 2, none of this would have been tolerated…” None of WHAT would have been tolerated, Eric? If you mean the schtick with Colbert–I’d say you’re right. If you mean the pomp, luxury and trappings of power surrounding a cardinal–not only WAS it tolerated before Vatican II, but it was practically the norm.
Larry, thank you for your comment – I was educated in the 40’s & 50’s by the Church and what I have seen for the last 40 years in no way resembles the Holy Roman Church I knew – The spirit of “Sell what you have and come follow me” has all but disappeared and in its place I see clerical power that is impossible to understand – The Bishops/Cardinals of that era did not even come close to living like the Bishops/Cardinals do today – I truly believe that if Christ were to return today the first question to these men would be – Why have you not taken care of my flock? – I hope and pray for the future and that younger men, and women, start anew and revamp our Church –
Bishop Fulton Sheen did not display such unholy behavior. From what I have seen of his many past life information that I researched, the video’s that continue to play have not shown us any of this sort of stuff tolerated today.
I believe wholeheartedly that this Archbishop needs to reflect deeper, he needs to give up the sport light and go to an abortion clinics and serve the people with his prayers and counsel woman to help them choose life, his excellency needs to visit the poor, invite the no body’s of this world over for dinner and minister to more souls, he needs to kneel and wash the feet of real people, he needs to visit a Traditional order and learn from them, be teachable again, be a student, humble himself more and with holiness….
I grew up in the 40-50s too. I can tell you that they hid it better them. Today they don’t try to hide it. Go into rectory’s today and you will find that most priest have a small apartment, have a house cleaner and a full or part time cook. Most Bishops have a priest-driver. In the old days, the Msgr. was driven by other priests. The banquets were often hidden from the general public. Only the big donors were invited. From my point, it is a lot more informal now than back then.,
What obviously Bob One is saying here is that it doesn’t matter if the bishops are rich and power players, and that there has never been a time when the clergy was not corrupt … only thing he sees is that they hid it then and market it now.
JLS pretty good reasoning there…I love the point you made about how they market it now….you have a gift to look things in a different light, pretty neat. You give us something to ponder at….of course after we pray about it first….
The late Bishop John Ward drove his own car.
I wonder if Bishop Ward made it into the realm of holiness. At least he expressed a dislike for all the modernization. That alone might have gotten him a ticket for the good ride.
“It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it.”
G.K. Chesteron :)
Thank you Thomas. One more Chesterton quote, “There was some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth; and I have sometimes fancied that it was His mirth.”
A real joke can heal people; Dolan’s jokes hurt people.
Cdl Dolan’s joke about pimping his nieces is the flip side of what St Paul says, that if man young men and women burn with lust, then they should marry. I hope the readers can see the critical difference … shaped by attitude. Which reminds me to review the Be-attitudes soon, as I keep forgetting them.
JLS, Bishop Dolan offered to give his niece’s phone numbers to the young man because he would be a trustworthy date. He was not pimping his nieces.
JLS I like a good sense of humor and joking too but depending with who, the situation, place and time….this was not a OK in my book for this Archbishop to do publicly.. with this man. People are forgetting that he is an Archbishop….he isn’t me or you but holds a higher power and should be feeding Christ’s flock real spiritual food. This spot light only adds more glamor and not substance…I know you know this already, I am agreeing with you.
In this life we already have a lot of this stuff going on…we need a balance and I was hoping that our Bishops and Archbishops would know that difference and lead us better…just saying
Cardinal Dolan did this event to illustrate the theological meaning of laughter. I have only heard segments of his conversation with Steven Colbert, but was not offended by the Cardinal in the little I heard. Is Cardinal Dolan perfect, by no means, but in my humble opinion he is sure striving to be holy and to lead one another to the Lord. God gave us laughter for a reason and St. Thomas Aquinas talked about it when he spoke of eutrapelia, the soul’s necessity for joy. Cardinal Dolan is was trying to lead people to the Lord though joy and laughter and was trying to illustrate why laughter is a gift from God. God Love You.
Yes Thomas, Jesus was laughed at, mocked and crucified..He accepted all with great dignity, it is called humility. What is your point? I think we do pretty well, at least we aren’t burning down buildings and burning flags. “Righteous indignation,” I don’t think so.
“A puritan is a person who pours righteous indignation into the wrong things.”
G.K. Chesterton…yet again…
In this case, Thomas, I will have to agree with you and Chesterton. Although, Cardinal Dolan is not always “my cup of tea”, I think he has probably brought many to Christ.
Anne T I disagree…your comment was offensive to me, don’t take it personal but it was….
Abeca Christian, note that I said “probably brought many to Christ”.. That was in the past, though. With Archbishop Dolan seemingly waffling back and forth, I do not really know how to take him. It does seem that his joiking gets out of hand at times, but since I was not there and did not hear everything thing and the manner in which it was said, I just do not know.
Anne sometimes we can bring others to Christ but not in the right tone. Here are some thoughts to consider:
1. If what appears to be coming to Christ but it doesn’t produce good in us, was it ever really coming to Christ?
2. If one brings others to Christ…do all stay?
3. If one brings others to Christ, as one may think, do some come to destroy and betray?
4. Are we presenting the real Christ or one that fits ones needs? etc etc….
I’m sure that depending on the years we grew up on, answers vary…but today’s modern times, I don’t think many look deeper, I think because of the way things are today, it is hard for many to see spiritually what is really at stake here. That is why we need to fast, pray and participate in our call for us all to be holy….etc
You are right Thomas, – and heresy, schism and scandal are not the wrong things, nor are they minor.
Someone who’s job is teaching the Faith, can not send mixed signals – see Dottie’s post above.
“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.” :)
“Be careful not to be so open-minded that your brains fall out.” :)
“Moral issues are always terribly complex for someone without principles.” :) – – – – All by G.K. Chesterton
What on earth are you saying Pete? And why use seemingly non-specific Chesterton quotes to support whatever it is you’re saying? Sorry, but I’m confused at your post. <:0
Perhaps, Dana, you’re confused because you see Dolan through rose colored glasses. He joked about throwing his nieces to the wolves … That was essentially calling them whores whose purpose would be to try everything to seduce young men and especially those considering holy orders. Any rose colored glasses I was wearing would’ve shattered at that irreverence. God did not create his nieces to tempt men to sin; so guess Who Dolan is really ultimately challenging, by providing an inference that God tempts man. Yet, this little leak in his fascade may tell us something about the mindset of his brother bishops as well. After all, there is something screwy with them as a group, witnessed by abortion, sodomy and so forth that they pay lip service to speak against but do the opposite to push.
JLS, did you even read my post? I feel like I’ve fallen into C.Dolan’s and S.Colbert’s bad comedy routine. Good grief!
What post, Dana?
Dana the way this forum is created, its hard to follow current comments because they can be anywhere on any spot throughout the comments. They don’t go in order….we have to pretty much scan from top to bottom to catch up on any new comments made or replied…just saying in defense of JLS, he may not have gone back and scanned through all the articles for any new comments…just saying sweets…
I have got to remember that its not ok to joke and have a few laughs. I must remember also to never let my pastor go out to the people and meet them where they are. Those nuns told me years ago that good Catholics never have a good time. No smiles. Keep your head down. Don’t talk to people that disagree with you or belong to another denomination. No, No, No. Life is too serious to have fun.
That one appearance by the Cardinal will likely bring more people to church this weekend than anything Cardinal Burke would do.
What utter nonsense you speak Bob One, the 60’s are over and your pathetic generation has gutted the Church…You dont like Cardinal Burke because he calls out the heretics, I pray that he is the next Pope and the great needed purging of the modernist can being in earnest.
I wandered into the sixties in ’68 and I escaped in ’74. I do not comprehend why so many are still living there.
JLS some people are just stuck in the past…
Have you ever watched any of Colbert’s shows Bob 1? He denigrates the faith every chance he gets…nyuck nyuck. What a hoot! Holiness? Get real, right? Gotta laugh at everything these days or we’ll all be thought to be just a bunch of sadsacks and cranks. Chesterton was ALWAYS most serious though he used humor and love in his attacks…and they were definitely attacks at sophistry, pseudo-science and all the nonsense that people were believing in this age. Using humor is not the same as using ridicule and sarcasm to get at those who take their faith seriously. By presenting himself as the ‘good Cardinal’,C.Dolan naturally undermines the serious cardinals who see the disease and corruption that is eating away at true belief and faith. He wants the Church to be seen as a tolerant, all-embracing part of this world, rather than as something outside of this world, an ark, a place of safety FROM this world. Mockery is never funny. Colbert makes a really good living mocking what is good, what is true and what is beautiful. Sometimes he says amazing things like blowing up a big balloon…wow! In the next breath he’s puncturing the balloon and saying,’haha, just kiddin’. Between him and the cardinal, it’s difficult to take anything they say seriously. Cynics think life’s a big cosmic joke. As the singer Regina Spektor prettily warbles ‘nobody laughs at God when they’re in the hospital.nobody laughs at God when they’re in a war’.
My favorite joke was held forth by Jesus Himself. One day He picked up some dust, spit into it and rubbed it in the eyes of a man born blind. Then the man washed his eyes out with water and he could see. That is humor; what Dolan is doing is destruction and it’s not funny.
That was well said, JLS! My favorite joke is how God fashioned a man and a woman and expected us to actually live together! That’s why some of the funniest jokes are those by comedians talking about their wives and husbands. eg.Phyllis Diller’s husband ‘Fang’. ha
Bob One, would you write everything you can possibly remember on a sheet of paper and publish it?
What Catholic school did you go to Bob One? I had a ball. That is still my question. When I get with my old friends, some have this bizarre thinking about their Catholic school, the same exact school I went to..Why? I have nothing against Cardinal Dolan, but don’t bank on the weekend Mass increasing that drastically. My fallen away Catholic friends looove to poke fun at the church. One of my fallen away friends said, “just do what you want, you don’t have to listen to the church,” in response to another friend asking a question about what the church says about a sexual act. One of my other fallen away friends said to another, remarried without an annulment, “you don’t need an annulment, just go to communion anyway.” Thank heavens we only get together a few times a year, I love em, but gee, there rebellion can be difficult to say the least!
Carolyn its pride…they are God’s children who rebel…just like our own children, we always have one that just keeps on thinking they know better…..
Are you the same Bob One who once happily praised and honored the ACLU on CCD? It looks like you want the ACLU to work along with Catholics and meet them where they are too.
Yup! But, I may be changing my mind a bit. Still working on it.
Bob One supports the ACLU, gee what a shock
Who could blame Bob one, after all the some bishops are uniting with the ACLU and that sure has mislead many and poor Bob one is one of them…lets look at the root of things and see who really is at fault….of course we still have to take personal responsibility.
Can you imagine this, a bishop who is working with the ACLU to end the death penalty…then tells his flock to stop abortion and tried to tell Bob one not to follow the ACLU on those issues, well wouldn’t that be hypocritical?
Maybe people are more worried with what appears bad but in reality they are what is bad, they are just trained to avoid scandal by presenting sin as actually being helpful to a worthy cause….really? Wow what we are compromising is the death penalty on all the innocent unborn children and avoiding teaching what are intrinsic evils? I feel that it is not taught enough and therefore many Catholics are so lax on things…
Fordham is not a Catholic University, it is Jesuit!
I wonder if there is a way to find out the proportion of actual faithful Catholics attend Jesuit universities. 10-20% is my guess. But that shows that the Jesuits are reaching out to somebody and preaching the Gospel and discipling the nations … doesn’t it?
This was really a very sad – and even profane – event. How tragic that a Cardinal of the Holy Catholic Church allows himself to be made the butt of jokes in a comedy appearance. Think of the majesty of Popes like Leo XIII, and Pius X and XII. Think of Archbishop Fulton Sheen. I hope that Pope Benedict XVI will advise Cardinal Dolan that he is not living up to the title conferred upon him.
Wait till he gets in front of Obama at the Al Smith dinner!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
We’d be better off if the Cardinal sent an entourage of little 90 year old ladies to stand up for the Church in the dinner with Obama.
A buddy of mine, a priest, was in the seminary with Dolan and he told me that Dolan always was a happy go lucky guy, a jokester!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Archbishop Sheen had a robust sense of humor. He joked often during his appearances, and his one-liners still get a laugh from me when I see an old program of his. The difference is, though, that Sheen did not treat EVERYTHING as a joke. He knew how to be serious when the occasion required, which is something Cardinal Dolan has a problem with. He also was tightly focused, whereas Cdl Dolan is afflicted with a very short attention span. And finally, Sheen did not publicly engage in backslapping jocularity with–shall we say–inappropriate individuals whose companionship reflects seriously questionable judgment on the Cardinal’s part.
The scandal of this is that Cardinal Dolan continually allows himself to be referred to as “The American Pope” w/o ever correcting that w/the assertion the the Catholic Church has only one Pope and Vicar of Jesus Christ who is presently Pope Benedict XVI who resides at the Vatican in Rome Italy.
The Cardinal tends to surround himself w/liberal Catholics such a Mr. Colbert; John Allen of National Catholic Reporter who recently did an interview book w/CD imitating those done by Peter Seewald w/Pope Benedict XVI aka Cardinal Ratzinger.In the book CD said he asked Cardinal Rigalli a friend, if it seemed too ambitious of CD;CR said ‘no’.
I recall an old saying “If you have to ask the question, you already know the answer.” It seems CD recognized however briefly that is was too ambitious particularly since in this book there is reference to him as the “American Pope”.Anyone interested can read in on Kindle.
I have been watching Bp. Dolan ever since he first appeared on Fr Groeschel’s show. My reactions to him are mixed. He appears as a back-slapping good ol’ boy who takes nothing very seriously. He certainly is no Burke or Bruskewitz. Not by a long shot. I gained a measure of respect for him when he issued his pastoral letter on the HHS mandate, but was quickly disappointed when he failed to follow through. His letter was widely ignored or downplayed at the parish level. My own parish published it in the weekly bulletin but it was never proclaimed from the pulpit, as was obviously intended. Obama got off scot-free once again. When I ask other Catholics about it I get blank stares. The Catholic vote is once again Obama’s for the taking. How sad! How gutless our prelates….
The poll that I saw a couple of weeks ago indicated that President Obama had about 60% of the Catholic vote. Could this be because we are not well educated from the pulpit? Most likely! I have never heard a priest speak about the church’s position on voting. Rather than not speaking about it because the disagree with the position, I suspect that they think it too hot a potato to take on, when they know that most women are on the pill, or they can look out in the congregation and see all that have had an abortion or drive through the streets and see the posters on the front lawn, or see the bumper stickers in the fenders in the parking lot. I think they are afraid to talk about it.
Look at that! You are being given a wonderful chance to make amends for supporting the ACLU. Bob One, You can also share with the priests how you are struggling to conquer your own fears and how CCD is educating you and helping you to overcome them.
What a prime opportunity for you to say something encouraging to your priests so they won’t have to carry that cross alone. Encourage them to speak up on the non-negotiable issues. Tell them that it would be so helpful to hear this from the pulpit. You’d be surprised how the thoughtful support from just one person can make a tremendous difference. Then we can call you Simon One of Cyrene.
Obama actually has zero percent of the Catholic vote.
Bob One: I fully agree with you regarding the “hot potato” issues our pastors are afraid to touch. Birth control is certainly on top of the list. Supporting the conservative position in the political realm is another issue the church is deeply split between the “social justice” crowd and the conservatives. The former believe in “redistributive justice”, support massive wealth transfers and are willing to swallow a few rotten fish (e. g. abortion) to achieve this goal.
The birth control battle has been over for decades. We lost. When the Canadian bishops at their Winnipeg conference in 1968 basically told the pope to take a hike and many of their American confreres agreed, our Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church ceased to exist. This act of disobedience has cost us dearly. We are all protestants now.
Anton, regarding the Catholic vote – please share this web site with everyone you know to help educate them – – –
” What Catholics REALLY Believe Source “.
The answer to question #13 contains verifiable links to :
A. the requirement for all Catholic Citizens to Vote;
B. “Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion, General Principles” by Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict)
C. Voter’s Guide for Serious Catholics
D. Where the Candidates stand on key issues
E. Comparison of the 2012 Republican and Democratic Party Platforms
F. Short video “Test of Fire”.
Regarding “B” – there is nothing proportionate in the USA to the murder of approximately 1 MILLION innocent babies each year.
Not only does Obama promote and encourage this murder for convenience, but also uses our tax dollars to do so – in the USA and abroad.
Pete, you are exactly right.
This is the Novus Ordo what would you expect? Pray for the return of the Traditional Latin Mass to all of our altars.
Janek I do love the Traditional Latin Mass but I have also attended very traditional and reverent NO mass, and I do appreciate them both! I just pray for holiness and faithfulness from all our church leadership. Many priests have been misguided and have embraced many of the abuses going on today. When you have a holy and devout priest, and if he has a liberal bishop, then he is the one who suffers….
By the way, R.B. Rodda stop already your hatred and mocking the Holy Mass of All Times, it is very nasty.
Yes Rodda stop….but k thinks that Rodda is poor…let me see she said ” poor Rodda”….it is better to be poor in spirit than poor in humility…
Will Dolan please stop laughing already and start acting like a prince of the Holy Roman Catholic Church should act. Remember this is the same man who wore the cheese head hat in Milwaukee and has altar girls and liturgical dancers at his Masses enough said.
Janek reading many of the articles on this website, we do have some positive ones but why does it feel like many of our men leadership isn’t so admirable? I don’t want to lose my faith due to man’s great evils and disobedience, all I can say is that all this is very disappointing.
Does no one recall that Mitt Romney is also invited to Cardinal Dolan’s “shocking” dinner, which is being presented as a “night of civility and good humor.” I think Mitt Romney is much more capable of both, but it would not have looked good for, nor been good for, Catholics or Catholicism in America if Cardinal Dolan had failed to invite candidates from both parties. It is not a mark of good thinking to castigate a man for making a good decision. If he had invited Mitt Romney only, the nation would decide we were all Republicans (though I am, not all of us are, sorry to say), and that would be an open invitation to the IRS to look us over very closely. Who needs that? Cardinal Dolan is doing the right and practical thing and does so in most regards.
Maryanne, Maryanne, : )
Please let me have some remaining faith in your usually (in most regards) sound judgement. Maryanne would you have ever wanted a client to tell you that your mosaic art work was alright and practical in most regards? Wouldn’t that leave you wondering what you could do to please the client in all regards.? Maryanne, A Prince of the Church has to be wise in ALL regards not just in “most regards.” We are talking about the influencing of many, many souls.
Who would ever entrust their heart operation to a surgeon who is doing the right and practical thing and does so in “most regards.” That’s a gambler’s recipe for a just a couple of regards short of being declared dead.
This is an interesting discussion. I note your comments, Maryanne. I hope that Cardinal Dolan can hold the feet of both candidates to the fire. Will he take President Obama to task for his support for Planned Parenthood, etc? What will he say about Mitt Romney’s indifference to and thinly veiled contempt for the 47% of people at the bottom of US society? In truth, Romney’s attitude is no surprise to many of us. Does he realize that a large percentage of people in poverty in this country are children? How many of these children chose to live in poverty? Most people don’t even make the $50,000 a year that it cost to attend that dinner. Perhaps the Al Smith dinner will have a more positive outcome. Sadly, neither candidate qualifies as pro-life.
No longer takes all the workforce to produce and distribute the goods and services that people need. The problem is that work and distribution is not expanding as rapidly as the population … due to the four horsemen of the apocalypse. What is required is peace among men, but instead what we get is sodomy among men, and this confounds all efforts towards peace.
“Sadly, neither candidate qualifies as pro-life.” Well, you have to be a pretty hard-left, dyed-in-the-wool radical to perceive and declare equivalence between Obama and Romney on the pro-life issue! Obama is a declared enemy of the unborn. He even enthusiastically supports what is euphemistically called “partial-birth abortion.” Romney is nowhere near there. The choice is clear and obvious–which is exactly what your reasoning is NOT.
Well expressed, Larry, and is the way I would picture it also.
PA you obviously think that 47 percent of people living off government is a good thing…and you cannot be Catholic and vote for Obama…..Mr. Catechism class teacher…
Canisius, are you saying that since neither Obama nor Romney are pro-life then I really shouldn’t vote for President?
I think the problem today is that we have all lost our sense of humor. Common folks! I think Cardinal Dolan is a gift to the Church of today. The best thing you can do is pray for all Shepherds and leaders in our church today. They are Satan’s target in today’s world.
Lost a sense of humor? I care to differ….we actually have more humor but there is a place and time for everything and with our Archbishop that is to lead, this is not the right thing to do!
A college program called “The Cardinal and Colbert: Humor, Joy and the Spiritual Life” moderated by a priest who wrote a book called Between Heaven and Mirth. It is an appropriate time and place for humor.
Yes, with Amchurch so thoroughly catechized, we clearly need more humor and less teaching and enforcing of the faith.
According to Canon Law regarding the Christian Faithful – ” 212 §3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.”
I would agree with you if the subject they were ridiculing were not in fact our Church…like he word consubstantial. It took the bishops and other experts ten years to agree on that and now it’s being mocked. There were a thousand opportunities for humor…like how the NewYork Tass (Times) turns the news on its head to make the Church look like a villain, or how the president is using the Catholic Church as a whipping boy. But, no, they had to make fun of our Church and us. If you and others can’t see this as hurtful and counterproductive to establishing a good rapport with secular society and the world then it’s pointless to try to explain it any further. I am sure Cardinal Dolan thought he was bringing the Church into the mainstream rather than appearing as cranky, judgmental outsiders, but as I said before in an earlier post, the Church by her very nature, is to be :in the world but not of it. Oh, well. Have a nice day :o) (and yes, the smiley is meant to be ironic)
Cardinal Dolan is a-rollin’ . . . with laughter.
So is Satan.
Excellent strong point there…
I was viewing some brief episodes of the Professional Russian and wildly successful firearms demonstration youtube videos, when I realized one of his routine targets is a picture of the “zombie clown”. Somehow it seemed fitting to post this on this thread, since it is dealing with episcopal humor.
Which gets me to wondering why some of these bishops make themselves targets for harsh criticism, by their actions and words.
Abeca Christian and Mark from PA, I get what you are saying in some or mosts of your posts. There was once a younger woman standing in my front room, and her boyfriend was sitting on my couch. She was ranting and raving about the wrongful behavior of some homosexuals and lesbians, and she was right, but I said to her, “Don’t you think we should clean up our own houses before we try to clean the houses of others?” I got through to her because she turned and said to her boyfriend, “Yes, we are living together and we are not married.” That couple is now married in the Church with three beautiful children. The Bible has a beautifully picturesque passage that one interpretation says,, “A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.” (Proverbs 24:11)..I believe my words were like “apples of gold” that day to that young couple. Mark from PA, I know I have had made very strong statements to you in the past, but it was not that I hate you, but because I thought you and some others were encouraging behavior in some people that could be harmful to them, the person with whom they did them, to children and to society of as a whole, so I felt I had to tell you in in no uncertain terms that they were wrong to do and to encourage. Perhaps I was rather harsh in some of the ways I tried to get that message across, but I hope you take what I say in the spirit that it was and is given — to save lives and souls. As Mother Angelica has said, “God sends no one to hell. We send ourselves there.”
And, by the way, there ARE times when I need correction too, and may God keep me open to receiving proper correction. That is why I try to go to confession at least once a month to a priest or priests I trust, sometimes more often and sometimes a little less, but when I feel I truly need it. I do need to make an examination of conscience more at night, too. I often forget to do it after a busy day.
Anne T you are a good person, I must add..
Thank you, Abeca Christian, but I must add that any good we do comes from God.
yes always.. : )
Yes, Anne, you are a good person. This was an interesting article but Cardinal Dolan’s comment about his nieces was kind of creepy to me. In regard to dating, I don’t think seminarians are allowed to date, are they? To the best of my knowledge they are supposed to try to be chaste.