The following comes from an April 25 story by Peter Hecht in the Sacramento Bee.
A dozen California bishops Wednesday called for passage of immigration legislation to unite families by providing “a generous path to citizenship” but less focus on punishing those who arrived illegally.
“Immigration reform is the civil rights test of our generation,” Archbishop Jose Gomez of Los Angeles said as the church leaders appeared for an joint announcement following a conference of the bishops in Sacramento.
“It’s not about politics for us. It’s about people,” Gomez said. “For me, it’s a question of human rights and human dignity.”
The bishops, representing the Catholic Church in a state that is home to 2.6 million undocumented immigrants, nearly one-fourth of America’s total, broadly endorsed immigration legislation in the U.S. Senate.
But they criticized the current bill for offering a 13-year path to citizenship – instead of a faster process – for most undocumented immigrants and for imposing fines and other punitive measures.
“The Catholic Church in California, and everywhere in America, has always been a church of immigrants,” said Archbishop Gomez in a news conference in which the bishops alternated between English and Spanish. “For us, these debates about immigration are about the future of the church.”
The current immigration bill requires proof of a secure southern border – with 90 percent of illegal crossers turned back – before undocumented immigrants living in the United States can apply for a permanent resident card, the first step to citizenship.
The bill would provide $6.5 billion in additional funding to fortify the border. It would require that undocumented immigrants seeking permanent status pay fines and any unpaid taxes, learn English and pass criminal background checks.
“It seems to be a punitive tone – that somehow we need to punish these people,” said Bishop Jaime Soto of the Diocese of Sacramento.
While Archbishop Gomez said the bishops supported immigration “reform so our brothers and sisters can live with the dignity that God intended for them,” Bishop Kevin Vann of Orange County drew parallels to his family’s Irish heritage.
“My ancestors were Irish immigrants and they brought with them the values of faith, family and hard work,” he said, switching from English to Spanish. “Eso es el mismo que hoy – (that is) the same as today.”
Read more here.
I am sure that Bishop Vann’s ancestors arrived here legally and did not sneak into the United States illegally as millions of individuals have – I disagree with the Church’s approach to this problem and the the Government solution seems fair to me – Our illegal brothers/sisters can live in dignity in their own country and if they do not like what’s going on then take steps to change it – We have laws, as does the Church, and they should be obeyed and not taken advantage of – Let’s get going on this, pass the law and enforce it now – What are the Bishops afraid of?
The Holy Father has called us to live among the smelly sheep. We are smelly because we are poor, we are undocumented, we love someone who looks like us. Sheep sense no boundaries between countries. Why should we?
Anonymous, sheep are not smelly after being run through a tank of sheep dip and rinsed off in a river of living water. You need to go and find an authentic Catholic parish, as it has become obvious that you have never run into one.
I sense no front door on your house. See you tonight at 3am. And I will be staying. I sense no boundary of what is yours and what will be mine. Why should I?
Eric, in 1986 we had immigration reform that was to be the LAST time amnesty would be given to illegal aliens. Plus, it was promised at that time that the borders would be made secure. Obviously that did not happen. The law does not need to be changed. These people need to stand in line like everyone else, which means if they are not here legally, they need to be deported and go through the correct procedure. Mark my words, decades from now another “immigration reform” will appear, granting millions more amnesty. No one should agree to the current change. And why is the Catholic Church taking the position that it is okay to violate our immigration laws? Emergency refugee status is always available. Again: ENFORCE THE LAWS WE HAVE NOW. And if I didn’t make it clear: NO MORE AMNESTY.
Laura – I agree with you but the problem is how do you deport 12 million plus people – This would be impossible – The big problem is the elected officials that we keep electing over and over gain that do nothing – I also agree with the fact that the Bishops do nothing that’s makes them look bad – It seems to me that another reason for the Bishops position is, of course, money – The root of all evil, money –
Money is not the root of all evil, Eric; the love of money is the root of all evil. Try to comprehend the difference. As for the claim that the bishops do nothing to make themselves look bad … man, you gotta be kidding, right? Many bishops make themselves look like buffoons.
I also has a lot to do with the very sad fact that most of our so called shepherds are also members of the Party of Death. How can one explain that?
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
I was very surprised to read the Sacramento Bee article by Peter Hecht. There had been NO information out on the bishops meeting in Sacramento. There still has been no information on where they met, or how long there were here.
What we did know is that they were meeting on the most critical issue of our time, er, actually of their time – immigration. Did they appear to testify at that same time at legislative hearings on abortion issues? No. They sent their feeble mouthpieces from the California Catholic Conference of Bishops to say a couple of words against the Planned Parenthood plan to let, in effect, amateurs to commit abortions. The bishops and the Catholic Conference was fooled, however, by scores of pro-life people, not “professionals” like the wimps of the Catholic Conference, who stood in line to testify against this bill, AB 154, even while knowing that the Democrats who were for this bill despised them and treated official speakers against the bill like dirt. How long can the California bishops hide behind the Catholic Conference and let them allow to ignore God’s laws while pretending the Conference is doing the will of the California bishops? On the other hand, maybe they are doing the will of the bishops since the bishops appear to care not a whit about the millions of unborn who are killed before birth and never are baptized. Do they know from God that aborted babies go to Heaven? How can they know? I guess it is not important to them – immigration is more important.
Laurette, what’s worst is that they know the babies don’t go to heaven:
“In the name of the holy Trinity, Father, Son and holy Spirit, we define, with the approval of this holy universal council of Florence, that the following truth of faith shall be believed and accepted by all Christians… the souls of those who have incurred no stain of sin whatsoever after baptism, as well as souls who after incurring the stain of sin have been cleansed whether in their bodies or outside their bodies, as was stated above, are straightaway received into heaven and clearly behold the triune God as he is, yet one person more perfectly than another according to the difference of their merits. But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains.” Council of Florence , Session 6.
How do you know, Goddard, that babies do not go to Heaven?
I know because the Church has infallably taught that they go to Hell. Councils of Lyon and Florence. Read above.
Jesus set the captives free, or don’t you consider Isaias to be included in the infallibility of the Church, Eric? Jesus also says that anyone who harms one of His little ones is better off with a millstone around his neck and dropped into the sea … Jesus is love, according to the Gospel, Eric, or don’t you consider St John to be doctrinally sound? All you’re doing is passing a rumor around.
If immigration is actually important to the bishops, then why don’t they act so that unborn babies all can immigrate from the womb to life? Maybe the bishops do not really think of unborn babies as persons.
“Immigration reform is the civil rights test of our generation,”: Why do they play on someone else’s historical cause? Do they feel that theirs is lacking and has to ride on the back of a past cause? We really need a bit more in episcopal appointments than we’ve had now for a few generations. But it would seem to me that true holiness would more than make up for political craft … so, why are we not getting the upgrade in holiness among the bishops that the Popes have been calling for?
Abp Gomez is WRONG for two huge reasons.
1) The ABORTION is the civil rights test of our generation, – NOT immigration.
2) Abp Gomez statement is in VIOLATION of the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
Immigrants are required to OBEY the LAW.
CCC: ” 2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption.
Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to OBEY its LAWS, and to assist in carrying civic burdens. ”
In addition because the Bishops do NOT teach “COMMUTATIVE JUSTICE” according to the CCC – which requires everyone including governments to pay their debts – the USA is no longer a prosperous nation, and CA is not a prosperous State.
The nation’s debt is approx. $16.8 TRILLION dollars, and the CA debt is approx. $407 BILLION.
CCC: ” 2411 Contracts are subject to commutative justice which regulates exchanges between persons and between institutions in accordance with a strict respect for their rights. Commutative justice obliges strictly;
it requires safeguarding property rights, paying debts,
and fulfilling obligations freely contracted.
Without commutative justice, no other form of justice is possible.
One distinguishes commutative justice from legal justice which concerns what the citizen owes in fairness to the community, and from distributive justice which regulates what the community owes its citizens in proportion to their contributions and needs. ”
Has anyone ever wondered why many US Bishops do not encourage literate people to read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”?
Could it be so that they can try to manipulate their political policy in the name of our Faith, and many people will not know the difference ?
Amen. Well said.
Absolutely Paul, I am in full agreement with you and Sandra. Abortion is the Civil Rights issue of our time. I would love to hear our Shepards speak out boldly about intrinsic evils instead of injecting themselves into matters of prudential judgment.
Excellent commentary – is there any way you could send this to Arch. Gomez or a group of you go to speak with him? Now that the US is a welfare state, we cannot allow just anyone to come in illegally – earlier immigrants came here to make it on their own; the ones from Mexico, etc. come to get benefits. This policy is no longer sustainable and is a form of stealing. Mexico will not let people from Guatemala just cross over their border. Gomez is just thinking about himself and having a large diocese to work with. Why don’t the Mexicans who are here illegally go back and make changes in their own country so that they would not need to immigrate!!!!
CA Bishops should meet with Mexican Bishops to tell non-citizens that there are no jobs in the USA with our unemployment and that we can no longer afford social program freebies for non-citizens.
And that it is sinful for people to break the just immigration laws of other Countries. That they must apply to work in the USA, and wait their turn without DISCRIMINATION and without FAVORITISM.
If people did not come to this Country ILLEGALLY, there would be no splitting up of any families. In order that families stay together – they should remain in their Country of origin until it is their turn to immigrate – legally.
So what are US Bishops really doing to stop the source of the problem? Illegal immigration is the source of the problem.
On the other hand the Bishops should be regularly giving money from their own pockets, Conferences and Dioceses to those Countries in real need.
Andrew, you’re a day late and dollar short in your advice to the bishops. Why do so many people assume that bishops are ignorant and have no idea what they’re doing?! They know exactly what they’re doing … they are culpable totally. They are messing up badly, and the popes are calling them to become holy. If the popes thought the bishops didn’t know what was going on in their dioceses, then the popes would point that out. But the only things these popes are pointing out is that the bishops are unholy. Why do you suppose this is, Andrew?
In the 1980s, four million person receive amnesty and it was touted at the time as the only time it was to be done. Four Million. Well, here we are again and, though it’s not called amnesty, it is the same except it’s going to cost a lot more.
As much as it’s politically correct to use the term “undocumented” versus “illegal” we all know it has the same meaning in this case.
I would have thought the archbishop had enough to do in his archdiocese, but I guess the papers are wrong and everything is running fine (he must not ever read anything from this website). So I guess they’ll be no more Lavender graduations at LMU; Catholic schools don’t have board members who are pro-abortion politicians or speakers who are pro=gay marriage; and it’s nice to know that the Religious Ed. Conference will only have speakers who exemplify the Magisterium.
Bob, in the late 80s I worked for an agency that dealt with jobs and alien work authorizations. For a while, after the amnestystarted which permitted foreign workers (officially illegal aliens) to get amnesty if they could document their steady employment in agriculture, I assisted a federal agency in verifying the work experience of those applying for amnesty. The incidence of fraud was enormous, with letter made up by employers who did not exist, at sites that did not exist, etc. I guarantee that this will happen again because the federal government has no will to stop the fraud. Obamaland wants as many foreign workers are possible to get official status here so that they will eventually (or even earlier) be able to vote democrat and continue and complete this country’s slide into total socialism. So long, America.
Sure need more immigrants from middle eastern countries. Our recent terrorists were on welfare from day one, nobody ever checked on their comings and goings to terrorist camps. While the younger terrorist went to college, taxpayer paid, an American was deprived of a place in that college.
Its not about immigration. Its about illegal immigration. I agree that the system needs to be fixed but what about all those who immigrated here legally. The church needs to leave politics to the government and focus on moral values that seem to be lost in today’s generation. Once we fix ourselves as individuals the rest of it will be fixed as a result. If we allow amnesty without any restrictions then it affects everyone. Should the country go bankrupt in the process of helping the illegals who are poor or should we live by our laws and keep the integrity of our society secure so that we as individuals can help the poor. We need to stop depending on government to solve our problems. Government can give but they can also take away our religious freedoms. We have already discovered that in Obamacare and it will only get worse because now we are required to cover the contraceptives and the abortion pill. That is just the beginning of evil that is mandated by Obamacare. It is also driving up the cost of healthcare for all of us. May God help us to be Catholics again and follow church dogma and the gospel. Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and give to God what is Gods..
Both ABP Gomez, Cardinal Dolan, and many of the other US Bishops are old enough to remember the ONE-TIME Amnesty act regarding immigration called:
– “IMMIGRATION CONTROL and REFORM ACT” of 1986 (which can be found on the internet).
That bill contained 3 promises –
1. The government would make a concerted effort to control the borders.
2. An effective employer verification program would ensure that only legal workers were hired.
3. One-time amnesty would be granted for people illegally in the
Two promises were broken. The government made no serious effort to control our borders. Employers continue knowingly to hire illegal immigrants without any real fear of punishment.
We finally got the truth out of Abp Gomez as he sees it, which has nothing to do with keeping families together: -“ For us, these debates about immigration are about the future of the church (in the USA). ”
It’s easier to actively encourage more ILLEGAL Catholic immigrants than to catechize and evangelize on the part of the CA Bishops and many Parish Priests. They continue to neglect the Souls of American citizens.
1) To this day most Bishops and Priests still do not catechize by actively and publically encouraging all literate persons to read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” and the Bible.
2) to this day most Mexicans and other Latins fall away from the Church (as each generation goes by) at the same rate as all other Americans.
3) to this day most Latino voters vote for the Democratic Party of Death – which actively and openly supports abortion and same sex marriage.
We have no obligation to support the Bishops in their ill advised earthly political endeavors, in fact we can legitimately and actively oppose them when they violate the CCC as they are doing now.
If the Bishops wanted to honestly keep families together – they would actively work against ILLEGALs sneaking into this Country, and only support LEGAL immigration.
Oscar, I couldn’t agree with you more. 70+ % of Latinos voted for the defacto leader of the culture of death in this country in the last election, and from what I can tell, the bishops don’t appear to be greatly concerned about it. I wonder what percentage of Archbishop Gomez’s current flock voted for The One? But the more, the merrier, I guess. Sigh….
“the future of the Church in the USA”? This is an oxymoron in the context of the bishops. Why? Because by their vision, there will not be a USA in the future. It will be something else, with no US Constitution and with foreigners voting for politicians. The bishops simply do not know how to speak in truth, but are always grandstanding it with phrases that boil down to meaningless stump speeches the function of which is nothing but irrational emotion hyping.
On the Internet see: “Watch Out! 05-02” by ChurchMilitantTV (Michael Voris) – which discusses this very issue.
Rather than catechizing and evangelizing USA citizens, many Bishops are merely kicking the can down the road until they retire.
Nothing will improve within the Church in the USA- until Bishops do their own jobs first.
Bishops need to do their own job within their own Diocese – catechize by requiring all Diocese and conference personnel to read and adhere to the CCC, and encourage reading of it by all literate Catholics within their Diocese.
Bishops need to stop SCANDAL and RELATIVISM and SACRILEGE within their own Diocese – by using the Code of Canon Law as necessary.
When Bishops give the appearance that scandal, relativism and sacrilege are not that important through their lack of teaching or merely lip service without action, they can expect ILLEGAL immigrants to eventaully fall away from the Church as well.
And the CA Bishops are very weak regarding teaching voter responsibility – we can not vote for politicians who support abortion, euthanasia, cloning, contraception, voluntary sterilization, etc. They need to tell this to the Latino voters who overwhelmingly support the Democratic Party of Death.
Bishops can blame themselves for the problems within the Church in the USA.
The difference Bishop Vann is that there was no government welfare for arriving immigrants and those immigrants mostly came as families. Now most of the undocumented who have crossed illegally are young men
between the ages of 18 and 30. Young men have throughout history been the most uncontrollable and violent members of society. Is it justice to subject a population to this kind of risk with no control?Is that leading to dignity?
Prof. Helen, I think your comments are stereotyping. Most young men between the ages of 18 and 30 are not violent. Many of the young Latino men come here to work and earn money for their families. Most of them are hard working and productive members of society and a majority of them are also Catholic. They deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.
Prof. Helen, young men and violence are hardly a match for old men and violence: Young men might kill a few people or even a few hundred or a few thousand, but old men are in charge and they kill millions … and behind every successful old man is an old woman; so the real question might be whether old men or old women are behind abortion, and thus the most violent of all.
The bishops are supposed to be spiritual guides. Instead they lobby and sermonize about earthly things; they literally dance with the wolves — all in the name of feeding the sheep. After the loaves and fishes miracle, didn’t Jesus say they were only following because their bellies were full and not because they believed. How lost are our Bishops?
CA Bishops make it difficult to be Catholic – by promoting their own personal politics and getting involved in public matters that have nothing to do with Church teaching. This also confuses people and makes evangelization more difficult.
I dislike having to explain to others “why” Bishops do what they do, when it is not Church teaching.
Legal aliens have no problems keeping families together.
“CA Bishops make it difficult to be Catholic”, you wrote a TRUE MOUTHFUL THERE!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
These Bishops say that relaxed immigration laws are not about politics but about faith. What if ordaining women priests could be declared not about church laws but about faith? Maybe there shouldn’t be any laws at all, just let people do whatever they feel like either to country or faith? Maybe anybody from anywhere should just be allowed squatters’ rights in America? Where does this all stop? Are the Bishops supporting the political Progressives world (rather than country) citizenship goals?
Does Abp Gomez really mean it when he says, “Immigration reform is the civil rights test of our generation?” As a Catholic, I always thought that the killing of an innocent human being would trump immigration reform as a civil rights or human rights issue. Laurette is so right. The killing of unborn babies is not a priority for the California Catholic Bishops. They march to the drumbeat of the SEIU and other unions who put pro-abort DEMs into office.
It’s not about politics for us. It’s about people,” Gomez said. “For me, it’s a question of human rights and human dignity.”
Really Bishop? Whose dignity might you and Bishop Soto and Bishop Vann be talking about ?
The dignity of the families left behind in Mexico, only to find that their “husband/father” married and never returns to the village? What about the dignity of the Illegal Immigrant to find work in their own country? Ever consider working on the root cause of a problem?
How about the dignity of the poor in your parishes? How can they withstand a non-stop flow of low wage workers who drive down all the wages in the neighborhood?
How about the dignity of the working poor and middle class US citizens who absorb more that their fair share of illegals? Overcrowed schools with kids who cannot speak the language. And whose parents to not have to speak the language thanks to your policy of Spanish Masses….they never join the Knights of Columbus, do they? But they are much easier to control and you look like a hero using our tax dollars to play the savior of the illegals while ignoring our laws that monitor the number of immigrants so that there will not be a collapse of the economic, social and medical services in our country.
Have you checked on the dignity lately of the blacks in Compton? How about the blacks in East Oakland? Not much dignity when they are getting kicked out of their neighborhoods and cannot get jobs.
Lastly, while Rome is burning, you are trying to tell me that you think Illegal Immigration is the Civil Rights Issue of the Year? Really?
And when you talk about immigration in the past, please do not insult us with your comparisons. The past immigrants come in thru the front door, had health check ups and needed sponsors.
Father Bascio, in his book, The Immorality of Illegal Immigration ” says it better than I can-Father Bascio presents a strikingly different perspective on illegal immigration than that of many church leaders. Like a prophet of old, he boldly decries current illegal immigration policies that have contributed to his fellow Americans’ joblessness, shrinking wages and poorer working conditions. Based on the years Father Bascio spent ministering in Harlem, he also argues that African-American workers, in particular, bear the heaviest burden of the illegal invasion, which locks them out of many workplaces or drives wages below livable levels.
Father Bascio also critiques the motives behind both our legal and illegal immigration policies that lure the Third World’s brightest and best to America, stripping poorer nations of their physicians, teachers, scientists, and future leaders.
He also believes that unchecked illegal immigration has grave consequences for overall U.S. tranquility: disdain for the rule of law, street gangs, document fraud and identity theft, staggering welfare and education costs and a creeping “balkanization” that threatens the national principle of E Pluribus Unum. As a Catholic priest, the author readily admits the unpleasantness of taking a position not shared by his church’s hierarchy, and which he believes is driven by the prospect of rising membership.
Diane, thank you so much for your comments. I looked up Fr. Bascio on the internet. I found a powerful ten minute video on YouTube in which he explains his current position opposing illegal immigration. He says that he was originally an admirer of Cardinal Mahony’s position on illegal immigration. I have to purchase this book and pass on this YouTube video.
Here is a PS to my message to the “Bishops”
We are on to your dirty secret. Allowing the Mexican Consulate, a foreign entity, onto our church property.
What is worse and diabolical, is that you do not let the non illegal parishioners know. You “sneak” the foreign government in and show the new arrivals how to screw our system.
We found out by accident. And we told our priest, if we find out again, not only will you lose our donations each week, you will have several hundred angry Americans protesting this and “escorting” the Mexican Government off our property.
Shame on you.
If any Parish breaks existing laws regarding immigration – document as much as possible and then turn them over to the FBI (including information to all the secular media who like to scoop each other).
Bishops not NOT permitted to encourage the breaking of legitimate laws and should be removed from their positions within the Church if they allow this law breaking within their own Diocese on Church property. Report such Bishops to the US Papal Nuncio in Washington DC, and the Vatican immediately.
Addresses for the above? Inquiring minds may want to know. :)
Do searches on the internet for contact information.
Addresses for the above? Inquiring minds may want to know. :) [Editors only: Sorry, forgot to add my name to the previous/same.]
” Report such Bishops to the US Papal Nuncio in Washington DC, and the Vatican immediately”! Good luck with that, been there and done that!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Mr. Fisher –
I have had good outcomes when reporting bad things to the current US Papal Nuncio and the Vatican, with a Copy to the Diocese Bishop in the past couple of years.
1) Document the abuse (including date, time, location).
2) Quote exactly from the Church document that requires different behavior – such as the: “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”, GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal), and/or Code of Canon Law.
3) Quote from the Catholic Bible.
(Note that this is the type of documentation used in binding Church document footnotes or in the body.)
4) I also include the original written complaint to the Diocese Bishop – who did not correct the abuse (including that documentation).
Code of Canon Law – under “Obligations and Rights of all the Christian Faithful” –
“212 §3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the DUTY to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church
and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals,
with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.”
The CCC, Code of Canon Law , and GIRM can be found on the Vatican web site.
A few years back, the CCD printed contact information. Some of that info has changed while others have not.
It would be helpful if they would update and reprint email, phone and address contact info for the Vatican, etc.
The USCCB web site posts all the US Bishops’ address contact info under “Diocese and Bishop Addresses” and a link to their individual web sites. (These can also be found by searching: “Diocese of _____” on the net.)
Always give the appropriate Diocese Bishop the opportunity to correct the abuse prior to writing to the Nuncio and Vatican.
Yep, you did well, Cindy, to throttle evil by writing a perfect letter to all the right bishops. Had you not done that, we’d still have abortion, sodomy advocation, war and starvation.
According to recent anthropology finds, the earliest race in America was white and not yellow/red/brown. So, why do the Mexicans keep prattling on and on about they were here first and are now reclaiming their land? Besides, many of these hispanic priests and bishops are white, so why do they constantly bias themselves towards Mexico? Could the “root cause” of this bias possibly be the centuries old dispute between Protestants and Catholics??? If so, then why continue being so “circumspect” about it? Why not be honest?
I strongly recommend the book “On Blood Stained Altars” for those who don’t realize how much America’s politicians had to so with the poverty of Mexico.
I am not in favor of illegal immigration, but a little understanding of what made Mexico, a country rich in resources, so poor would help the understanding of why many Mexicans feel the way towards the USA that they do.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Kenneth, are you sure of that title? Or would it be “Blood Drenched Altars”?
LIBERATION THEOLOGY…..the end justifies the means to get there….this along with a ” weak conscience ” and “relativism” has transposed the church into a very weak religious experience….10 commandments mean nothing..no absolutes..no need for confession…..Mexico,Honduras, and Guatemala are the future of the church in California…… the dominant caucasian population for the past 50 years was lulled into a ” FEEL GOOD CHURCH”…especially since vatican 2…they have no clue that “TRANSUBSTANtIATION” is the church….church attendance is way down with the younger generations…the bishops know that the future of the church is with these illegal immigrants…..
Have a seat Walt. It’s nice to see ya. Would you like some tea?
Is it decaf?
I have been very unenthusiastic about this Immigration Bill. But if the California Bishops hate it, then I love it. Thanks for the tip, Bishops.
JimAroo you are funny. I don’t know anything about this bill either but I tend to agree with your sentiments too. : )
Well, Abeca Christian, are you saying that if the bishops say one thing that we should believe the opposite?
Mark from PA –
The best tool for TRUTH is from the Magisterium – – – the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”.
If any Bishop teaches in opposition or conflict to any teachings in the CCC we can ignore that Bishop.
We also have an obligation to contact his office with the correct information and point out his conflict – quoting the CCC paragraph(s).
All those who wish to be Catholic must adhere to the teachings in the ‘Catechism of the Catholic Church’ in entirety.
“ This catechism is conceived as an organic presentation of the Catholic faith in its entirety. It should be seen therefore as a unified whole. ” (CCC page 11)
It is sinful that many US Bishops do not encourage literate persons to read the CCC. (The CCC is printed in many languages for the entire world.)
“ The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved … and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. “ – Pope John Paul II. (CCC pg 5)
“….the Catechism has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians, and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine, enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates , lives, and prays in her daily life.” – Pope John Paul II (CCC page xiv)
And lastly – we also are not obligated to follow any Bishop in matters that do not pertain to our Faith and Morals.
PA I am talking about this bill….I don’t know about their other issues as of yet…
Come, blessed of my Father, For I was a stranger and you invited me in. Depart from me, you who are cursed, for I was a stranger and you did not invite me in.
Anonymous, why don’t you go and invite some street thugs into your home; then you can bolster your dumbo interpretation.
The cafeteria is closed.
yes Anony don’t YOU forget that….
Anonymous, – Feeding, clothing and providing shelter to the poor has nothing to do with ILLEGAL Immigration.
You can provide these things to the poor in other countries by donating through various charities. Everyone in the entire world does not have to live in the USA.
The USA is no longer a prosperous nation. The Nation is approx. $16.8 TRILLION dollars in debt, and CA is about $407 BILLION dollars in debt, in part because the Bishops did not teach according to the Church – “Commutative Justice” – to pay just debts owed without which no other justice is possible. (CCC 2411).
Instead they keep asking for more government money for non-religious social programs that they involve themselves in.
What have US and foreign Bishops done since the US AMNESTY of 1986 to insure that Catholic immigrants do not become ILLEGAL Aliens by breaking immigration laws and purposely splitting up their own families?
This is not about splitting up of families. This is about MONEY for various Diocese so that some parishes will not need to close, and Bishops will not lose power due to smaller Diocese. Bishops and their paid staff have a vested financial interest. You can not grow a bureaucracy with less money.
Many US Bishops do not want to work. They do not want to look at themselves and their wasteful, and ineffective, and non-Catholic secular social programs within their Diocese and Conferences – to see why Catholics are leaving the Church. (They do not stick to the Bible and the CCC in entirety.)
It takes work and truth to bring back US Catholics who have been poorly catechized.
It takes work and truth to convert others.
This is the damage brought on by the likes of Cardinals Bernardin, Mahony, Weakland, and the nuns of LCWR, NETWORK, and Sisters of Mercy of the Americas all who have infiltrated and pushed their own anti-Catholic politics through the USCCB. (This includes some of the CA Bishops.) The cancer they spread needs to be removed.
They need to stick to the Bible and the CCC only and in entirety.
In your first paragraph you talked about the works of mercy of feeding clothing in sheltering, but what I refered to was welcoming the stranger. For reference, and I understand that illegal immigration is not what it is talking about, CCC 2241. Re: the national debt- Did you notice the price tag on this bill? I think it is insulting to the bishops to say that they only care about money and the size of their diocese. It would be a long story to relate what happens when they come here-many are welcomed warmly by the non-Catholic churches and change church affiliation. For many who come, especially the men, church attendance is not a priority. The damage done by those you mention is a long complex issue and it needs to be scrupulously analyzed and understood. I do not support the breaking of any laws. I hold in high esteem those who coform to our laws but our Lord expects us to be charitable to every individual. Just as He is. “Love one another as I have loved you.” John 13:34
John 13:34 has nothing to do with strangers. It has to do with loving everyone.
(Plz re-read John 13:31-35 accurately).
We love one another by:
1) helping them get to Heaven (saving Souls);
2) by assisting those truly in need – food, clothing and shelter – no matter where they live on Earth;
Regarding national and state debts – debts did not get this large overnight. It’s due to years of over-spending, waste, and growth of government – without Church teaching to pay our debts.
We must all ask ourselves when the last time Bishops, Priests, and Nuns taught the Church teaching of “Commutative Justice” – requirement to pay our debts (CCC 2411).
You are right that due to the lack of Bishops doing their jobs currently and over the years- things are really in a mess. Bishops, Priests and LCWR Nuns are not experts and should not involve themselves in this political process thus creating bigger messes or following the Democratic Party of Death.
The Bishops are not and can not be all things to all people.
Their job is to save Souls, and to preach and teach – from the Bible and the CCC.
OSCAR, The stranger part is Matthew 25:35, 43. thank you for your respectful post.
Go for it MAC; go and do what you recommend, then get back to the blog here with your briefing.
Anyone who consistently hides behind being anonymous, like that repellent communist group that wears those evil looking masks, deserves nothing but contempt. It is cowardice , anti-social and sinister. Also, it seems to promote over-use of hackneyed cliches and specious reasoning, as well.
Not the sentiment of a Christian.
Anonymous who is afraid to identify himself or herself, please give us your definition of a Christian.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher (NOT ANNONYMOUS)
One who believes in and obeys Christ.
Dana Bravo! I applaud your comments! I completely agree!
Dana you are a good Christian!
Thanks Abeca! I needed that! :0) God bless you. This is such a sad topic, is it not? I can’t help but remind everyone (again) about how Mexico has been used many times in the past to cause stress to the US. The Germans tried it in WWI, as did Japan in WWII. I suppose there’s evidence of Russia and now muslim countries as well. It is a useful device to keep us fighting many fronts (the drugs, the illegals etc.) so we are distracted from whatever the basic attack to weaken and destroy us is and by the time we wake up to it, it will be too late (the perpetrators hope) It’s incredibly sad to see our bishops be part of this obvious political ploy and then rationalize it as being noble and caring. If this country is destroyed, where do these unfortunate people go then?
Dana I agree with you, I don’t know why many of our Bishops fall prey but I can say is that perhaps it is because they are easily distracted from what truly matters….many people think that feeding Christ’s sheep is fleshly but they forget is that Christ meant spiritually:
” He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.”~~~ John 21:17
Posting as anonymous is more an act of humility. Since so many post as anonymous one learns to accept that an opinion that you don’t agree with will be posted using your “name”.
Anony that comment you just made sounded more prideful to me….No I disagree with you….
It is really a shame when some Bishops purposely confuse the public with their own political desires and financial concerns, rather than sticking to the Catechism (CCC) and true teachings of the Church.
It is a shame because when they speak about true teachings of the Church such as abortion, euthanasia, freedom of religion, etc – then no one will pay any attention to them – due to the ignorable things they push for their own gain.
Abp Gomez let the truth it slip out – “For us, these debates about immigration are about the future of the church.”
It’s all about money.
Souls do not have to live in the USA to be Saved.
Very good points, Sandra. It would seem too many of these men see their roles as defined by a socialist agenda with political means and ends. Jesus was not some socialist hippie promoting social equality. They are putting their own mugs on the face of our Lord.
ABORTION is the civil rights test of our generation, – NOT immigration.
I would go even further Sandra, and say that the future of Western Civilization that was founded by the culture of the Catholic Church has become the test of our generation. It’s come down to fighting for life itself, as the death peddlers redefine marriage, family, faith and values. They’re out for blood and it isn’t their own.
I think that the devil has blinded many individuals. It is distracting many of the faithful to other issues so that those who are not seeing well ….well neglect more what truly matters in Christ. It’s a plot and deception that some have fallen prey to. Let us know continue to pray for our church leadership.
Amen, Abeca. It’s as though there are scales on their eyes! Pray, pray, pray…especially for our beloved Church, which is truly under attack. It’s so encouraging to watch the faithful on EWTN as they continue to teach truth and faithfulness to Jesus and the Church with real joy. Jesse Romero speaks very strongly against illegal immigration but has a very loving attitude.
What part of the label “illegal immigrant” do our bishops not understand? This latest initiative is a shameless political stunt. Couching their support for illegals in terms like “civil Rights” or “human rights” does not alter the facts by one iota. They are lining up on the side of our current political administration, giving aid and comfort to the party of contraception for 15 year olds, unlimited abortion, infanticide, and sodomy. Good company to keep, I should say!
Those who lean to the left, Anton, are incapable of seeing right and wrong. To them, those are subtle distinctions writ in shades of gray. Once you’ve forsaken seeing black and white, how can you see anything at all? They live in a murky twilight world, don’t you think?
I think you make a mistake when you assume that, because the Faith drives these bishops to a different conclusion than you do regarding a particular political issue which causes you spiritual difficulty, the bishops must therefore subscribe to that same philosophy.
It would make more sense to research HOW the bishops came to this conclusion than to presume they are stooges of a materialistic political philosophy (i.e.: leftism). You could then either change your mind, or examine WHY you disagree with them. Many of the bishops have written extensively on the topic.
ALL Catholics – including Cardinals, Bishops, Priests, Nuns and Laity are REQUIRED to adhere to the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”.
Bishops have no legitimate authority to reach conclusions that conflict in any way with the CCC or the Code of Canon Law.
It’s all in black and white thanks to our Magisterium.
Impossible to “adhere” to Church doctrine unless one is already following Jesus. St Andrew followed Him before he ever heard Church doctrine.
That’s a very valid point, Francis. There is truly much I don’t understand. Actually, I wasn’t thinking of Archbishop Gomez and I’m sorry it was implied. I have no idea what his politics are. But I still say that liberalism/modernism limits and distorts truth and a very successful tool of satan in undermining and splintering the unity of the faith.
I find it presumptuous to say that because the bishops come to a different conclusion than you do, this must mean they do not understand the meaning of “illegal immigrant.” It would show more humility on your part to say that perhaps they understand something YOU may have forgotten. And one obvious piece of evidence that you may have forgotten something is this: “They are lining up on the side of our current political administration…” Yet these are the same bishops who steadfastly oppose the free contraceptives mandate in Obamacare, even though they have long supported universal health care coverage and they very much like the rest of Obamacare.
Obamacare supports taxpayer paid abortion, contraception, voluntary sterilization, and will support euthanasia of the seriously ill and the elderly.
Bishops should concentrate on teaching and preaching the Faith.
They should remove all LCWR and NETWORK Nuns from everything related to the Diocese.
Francis, forget your rant about presumptuousness, because obviously you don’t know what it is. The fact that bishops have all sorts of different takes on Dogma comes from a corrupt bureaucracy. It needs to be weeded out.
The bishops do not have different takes on dogma.
When are the California bishops going to slam the “Catholic” abortionist politicians who profanate the Eucharist on Sundays?
Deliberate suicide is still a mortal sin, don’t hold your breath waiting for the current crop to enforce Canon 915.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
These Bishops violate their own Church laws which they are required to uphold.
Canon 915 and Canon 1399.
How can we expect them to honor civil laws when they don’t even honor Church laws?
“Can. 915 Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion.”
” Can. 1399 In addition to the cases established here or in other laws, the external violation of a divine or canonical law can be punished by a just penalty only when the special gravity of the violation demands punishment and there is an urgent need to prevent or repair scandals.”
‘SACRAE DISCIPLINAE LEGES’ – “Finally, the canonical laws by their very nature must be observed. ” – Apostolic Constitution – Pope John Paul II, January 25, 1983.
Catering to the rich and the powerful for their favor in violation of Church law is sinful.
“Catering to the rich and the powerful for their favor in violation of Church law is sinful.” Rich and powerful illegal immigrants?
Yes Francis….there is a rumor that one of the Mexican seafood restaurants here is owned by the mafia, they are here illegally, I don’t know how they managed to open up a place of eating but a friend who has friends in the FBI has warned us to not eat there… but wouldn’t say why….hmmmm
” When are the California bishops going to slam the “Catholic” abortionist politicians who profanate the Eucharist on Sundays?” – – – Catering to the rich and powerful for their favor by NOT ENFORCING REQUIRED CHURCH LAW.
When someone replies directly to another statement, it is shown within the box. Please observe. Post was in response to jergenson.
SACRAE DISCIPLINAE LEGES – propagation of CODE of CANON LAW – “Finally, the canonical laws by their very nature MUST be observed. ” – Apostolic Constitution – Pope John Paul II, January 25, 1983.
Yes, of course, Francis, the bishops are about to meet in the most luxurious palace they can find in California, on Coronado Island where they can best minister to the poor.
haha. Let’s pray our Holy Father’s example will light a fire of simplicity and love of poverty in their high-end, baked enamel & gourmet little hearts. Or does that sound unChristian. Sorry.
Skai it’s not the most luxurious palace in California….not even close…
Those are interesting replies to my question.
Abeca: You say a rumor of mafia connection negates Catholic tradition with regard to how we treat seriously poor people among us. Never mind that 99 percent of the people being affected by our immigration policies have zero connection with any mafia other than their ethnic identity.
Cindy says the bishops shouldn’t speak out on a widespread sin until they punish, to her satisfaction, politicians who remotely cooperate with another widespread sin. If the bishops excommunicated all Catholic politicians who remotely cooperate with all grave sins, we would have very few Catholic politicians. Would you like to name some Catholic politicians who consistently refuse to cooperate with ANY grave sin?
Skai seems to think the bishops have no standing to speak out for millions of poor people because “according to a phone call” they are meeting at a resort rated “$$” (not $$$ or $$$$) by tripadvisor. No news story, no other facts to go on, nor tally of the cost. I agree they could probably find someplace even cheaper and more centrally located, but where would YOU have a nationwide meeting with 453 colleagues, most of whom are old enough to to be AARP members as well?
Your comments are all interesting, but they would be more interesting if they showed a sense of proportion or perspective. “Fair and balanced” as a motto comes to mind.
I don’t Francis just thought I’d rely to your question at first but now…I don’t know. I’m not going into it as deep as your eye’s see’s them, there is a far greater spiritual element in which we lack to see….I leave in God’s hands….I rather we be poor in the ways of the world…dying of self….
Heaven or Hell is not balanced or compromising.
Heaven or Hell is right or wrong.
The Catholic Church does not teach us to TOLERATE Mortal Sin.
Francis, “immigration is not a widespread sin” in the USA.
Your false premise is ridiculous.
In fact some Bishops, are NOT adhering to the teaching of the Church, and are twisting the true teaching of the Church to suit their own political and financial beliefs.
What do you NOT understand about: ” CCC 2241 …….
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption.
Immigrants are OBLIGED to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to OBEY its LAWS and to assist in carrying civic burdens.”
In addition, when are the Bishops going to start teaching the truth of our Faith regarding CCC 2411? – COMMUTATIVE JUSTICE.
The Federal Government and States and Local Governments need to pay their debts prior to taking on further obligations that they can not afford.
It is gratifying to see how many Catholics are STILL ALIVE, still aware that it is essential to be logically consistent in observing Catholic teaching if one expects to love in the Holy Spirit. This seems to be at the heart of the failure of the whole “Spirit of Vatican II” movement since the Council: “faking” observance of the REAL Catholic faith they have long ago left behind. I am encouraged by the many who are critical of Archbishop Gomez’s very offensive remarks that give unequivocal support to the “civil rights” of illegal immigrants and no support to the tragedy of the total violation of those same civil rights of the unborn victims of abortion. When will all of our bishops start leading our good Catholic faithful in the Holy Spirit, and repudiate the cheap political alliance of the USCCB with the Democratic Party talking points?
This saint is so lovely, it expresses the sentiments of some of the poor and those who seek to have what others have but this saint learned it too well and realized the sin committed:
‘One day when I was very young, I passed a second hand shop in one of the streets of La Mure. As I glanced inside I saw a soldier’s pompon, such as they wore in the time of Napoleon Bonaparte. I was instantly seized with the desire to possess it and, seeing no one in the shop, I ran in, snatched it up, and took it off home with me. But no sooner had I reached the house than I was overcome by remorse. I carried it back quickly and, peering around to make sure that no one saw me, I threw it in hurriedly and ran off. . . That is perhaps the greatest sin of my life.’~~~St. Peter Julian Eymard
as a catholic, i will abandon my catholic faith if the leadership of the church continues to support illegal immigrants. the church may get more catholic, but those catholics will not donate to the church. like this nation, the church will harm itself by supporting those who have no interest in anything but themselves.