The following comes from a Jan. 8 story on the Christian Post.
A same-sex couple in California is claiming a local catering company refused to service their upcoming wedding ceremony due to their sexuality.
Kama Kaina and Mathew Rivera, a same-sex couple of four years, reportedly contacted Janet Zimmerman Catering back in November to request her services at their upcoming gay marriage ceremony in Big Bear, Calif. in June 2014. The couple received a response email from Zimmerman saying she could not provide catering for their wedding because her Christian beliefs prohibited her from supporting them celebrate their lifestyle.
“Thank you for contacting me in regards to your upcoming wedding,” Zimmerman reportedly responded in an email to Kaina, according to The Advocate, an LGBT publication. “I really appreciate that you were honest with me and gave me a heads up that this would be a same sex marriage. I hope that you will also appreciate when I am honest with you when I say that catering your wedding would comprise [sic] my Christian beliefs and I will be unable to accept this job. I am sure that you will be able to find someone who will better suit your needs.”
Kaina and Rivera have said that they are currently not planning to pursue legal action against Zimmerman, and they are now searching for a new catering service to help them on their wedding day. Zimmerman is likely not in violation of California’s anti-discrimination laws because her catering profession may be regarded in court as a service, rather than a business. Online searches for Zimmerman’s catering service yields one result on Facebook under the name Janet Zimmerman-Catering, but this page has since been removed….
To read entire story, click here.
God bless this caterer, they have my full support. There are many caterers who will serve them and they should “respect” the sentiments of this caterer and go else where. That is it, there is no debating about this! NOT AT ALL! Its common sense people!
So get off your high horse and respect the religious convictions of others, its nothing personal….this couple can go on as they live, we have nothing against them personally but to make people conform to make people participate and get paid for services that offend what we hold holy….is just mean and it is a new type of “bullying” by the gay activist…they are the bullies!
Abeca, there are a few issues here.
What about businesses like health care? There have been cases where emergency personnel have refused to treat trauma victims because they were crossdressers or transsexuals.
Should emergency service providers be allowed to refuse to treat a patient because they don’t approve of transsexuality? Is it moral to watch someone bleed to death and do nothing because they’re wearing cross-gender clothing?
If a nutjob decides to shoot everyone in a gay wedding, do you support the right of ambulance drivers and emergency room nurses and doctors to let shooting victims die because they’re gay?
I think there are some situations in which some businesses should not be allowed to pick and choose clients.
That being said, as in the New Mexico catering case, I think here it’s clear that freedom of religion should apply since catering involves participation (at some level) with a religious ceremony that is against the caterer’s beliefs.
If no such participation in religious ceremonies is involved, I believe the non-discrimination statutes with respect to common carriers should apply.
JonJ you are just throwing out there just any stupid argument. I have never heard of someone or hospital rejecting to save anyone in an emergency situation, especially that is a transgender or what have you.
See JonJ I won’t entertain your comments nor waste my time in answering them further because you do not make decent arguments. Your ability to reason just makes me wonder about you more. I mean really? You would go there. It is insulting! It is appalling that you would even ask that question or even insinuate wickedness out of people of faith. If anything, I would be the first one to save a life, who cares what sins they carry. It is about respecting human dignity and helping save a life when possible. Shame on you for even making stupid arguments that are soooo very irrelevant here to this situation!
How low can you go…you stooped so low. Shameful. Lord give us patience and help us to walk away from their insane questioning…..I can’t help but feel sorry for that mentality. As if we had something to proof to his thinking…geez! We have nothing to prove to you JonJ…….if you want to dialogue do so without this type of insults. Shows how little you know of people of faith…..we have tolerated this type of behavior for so many years…Lord help us.
Abeca, these things do happen:
That’s why you can’t pretend it doesn’t happen and make laws assuming it doesn’t happen. As long as such things continue, they provide the kernal of justice that Satan can use push for immoral fixes. As long as so called “people of faith” pretend they don’t happen they aren’t addressing reality.
How am I “stooping so low” by recognizing what has and does happen in society? I suppose people who accused priests of pedophilia showed “how little they knew about people of faith” and how you “tolerated such behavior for so many years” led to wise decisions by Bishops.
I do suppose the vast majority emergency care workers do not behave in such a fashion. But the few who do spread a toxic stain that needs to be addressed and cannot be ignored.
Jon J, everyone has the right to life, but they do not have the God given “right” to misuse their body parts and thus help to destroy themselves and others. They might have the freedom to do so but it is not a “right” according to nature or God laws. We have the freedom to put beans up our noses or poison ourselves, but society should never declare such a thing a “right”, and that is what so called “same-sex marriages” are all about. They are immoral laws forced upon us by imprudent and/or immoral judges. No states’ citizens voted for them, but even if they did, it would still be wrong. Nazis Germany and the pagan Roman Empire had plenty of laws that were just plain wrong and immoral.
And the answer to your first question, Jon J. is “No”. Jesus Christ came to save lives not to destroy them, so everyone deserves medical care if they can be helped. Firefighters should certainly go to a LGBT Parade if there is a real fire there and people are in danger or to advise on safety precautions, but they should not be forced to go there just to be in the parade, etc. The former are necessities for protecting life, but food for a wedding or catering for one is not a necessity. Such is common sense, and society certainly needs more of that.
Abeca, I expected you to make the obvious answer that such decisions would be immoral. However, if you say that businesses have the right to withhold services or refuse custom to whomever you please, you will be able to do nothing with respect to people making such decisions. BTW, such cases have occurred (though, I think, they aren’t that common).
Harder cases would be something like a retail store. Should Wal-Mart be able to refuse to sell someone items from the shelf because they think they’re gay? What if the clerks says he heard the customer say, ” I want to buy baby oil for a gay sex orgy”? Would that be valid grounds to deny a sale? If you allow that rationale, how can you prevent the clerk from making up stuff to deny sales to anyone they don’t like?
I do agree that compelling someone to participate or attend a religious ceremony that violates their beliefs should be prohibited under freedom of religion, but you can’t just say that businesses have absolute discretion to deny services under all circumstances.
I see a lot of stupid arguments for Sodomy.
RESPECT is a two way street and it appears that is the outcome here!
Deep down this person is hurting. Craving to be accepted. Little does he know, that our Lord loves him and takes him as he is with only one condition. That he give up himself and walk with Christ, take up his cross and walk with Christ. Surrender his sins and permit the Lord to carry him. Carry him like a little child. Regain your love and innocence for the Lord, let go of thine own understanding, lean on Christ.
Reflection: Isaiah 53:7
He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
Oh precious Jesus you did this all for all sinners. They still don’t trust you and your ways. They forget your mum’s tears and sufferings, they only know of your name but do not know you personally. Their ego is so big, that it pains them to look at themselves in the mirror and face who they really are. If we only would see us as you see us, not all would be able to handle the truth about themselves. It must be painful. Some have been drunken of “self” for so many years, they indulge in their flesh that they are blinded. Oh that ugly flesh, how it separates us from getting close to you. Oh agony…oh torture but some have gained earthly treasures, powers and don’t see their flesh as their enemy. They make no effort to fight it. They don”t know Lord. It’s hard for many Dear Jesus. Lord I ask Blessed Virgin Mary for her powerful intercession and for your healing. Forgive us dear Lord for the many offenses we do to thee daily and help us turn away from sin. Helps us correct the pain and hurt that our sins cause unto you and unto our fallen away brothers and sisters. I love you Jesus, you are my love and my everything!
Oppressed and condemned, he was taken away, and who would have thought any more of his destiny? When he was cut off from the land of the living, and smitten for the sin of his people.
A grave was assigned him among the wicked and a burial place with evildoers, Though he had done no wrong nor spoken any falsehood.
Our Lord’s natural law and His people who fear Him, are facing much persecution for their religious freedom. Join me in praying our lady’s 7 dolores chaplet. Pray for the homosexuals who are lost and who continue to persecute God and His people.
God bless you.
There is a light at the end of the tunnel. There is an answer and the right answer that leads to the truth. JESUS CHRIST.
WHO DO YOU LOVE THE MOST? JESUS OR YOUR HOMOSEXUALITY?
Who gives salvation? Jesus or your homosexuality? JESUS!
They will know by your actions if you chose Jesus or if you have a relationship with Jesus.
BE HOLY….HOLY means to be obedient to our Lord.
Abeca, Jesus Christ gives salvation. We caterers don’t :-)
C&H for a person making such statements, sure tells a lot.
Well then C&H, since I know where salvation comes from….its your tun to choose and live like it! Or should I say you have chosen…..because that is what your comment is conveying.
“If you don’t behave as you believe, you will end by believing as you behave.”
― Fulton J. Sheen
Salvation, we both know Abeca comes from God. However this raises a practical question for me. I have catered gay weddings and I would do a transgender one if asked. In this case should I have refused because the officiant was telling people that this was a valid and licit sacramental marriage when it isn’t? What about an SSPX wedding. Should the same standards apply?
You own the business. You set your policies. You don’t need to be consistent. There may be reasons you don’t want to do one gay wedding but will do another gay wedding. It is your business.
If you own a restaurant you should serve everyone. If you own a store, you should serve everyone. Catering and wedding photography are services where the business person has to go to an event. It is fundamentally different. Florists and bakers vary-if someone wants to pick up the order at the store-fine. If they have to go to the event, they should have the right to refuse.
The government should not require people to participate in things where they are uncomfortable. You should not have to cater a Nazi party or a political event if you don’t want to. You are free to do so if you want to.
C&H – regarding participating in homosexual or transgendered marriages:
CCC: 1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
– by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
– by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
– by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
– by protecting evil-doers. ”
Regarding SSPX weddings this is all we officially have to go on at this time:
” As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church. There needs to be a distinction, then, between the disciplinary level, which deals with individuals as such, and the doctrinal level, at which ministry and institution are involved. In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church. ”
The Catholic Church recognizes marriages between one man and one woman even if of other Faiths and beliefs, even if they are not a Catholic Sacrament.
Some interesting questions are raised here. If I had a Catholic religious supply business could I sell to only Catholic priests and Church agencies? Would I be violating the 1st Amendment rights of a satanist or even an Episcopalian priest who wanted to buy? Anon poses a question for us caterers; Michael Mc. D. wrote about a party where a to a party where a performance artist did some awful yuckky things on stage. Would I have delivered the food and set it out beforehand? Yes. Would I have worked the party and subjected me and my staff to the “performance?” No, but on the other hand, do we just drop our public acomodation laws and anyone can discriminate against blacks, Catholics, Hindus, people who “seem gay” etc. as long as they say it’s motivated by religious belief?
Why would it need to be motivated by religious belief?
If you have a private business and you do not want to sell to the public in general, don’t put a sign up.
If you have a store whether it is religious supply, shoes, lettuce, sex toys-you are providing goods to anyone who walks in. Your business is to sell those goods-it is not to judge whether someone is good enough to buy your products. Or to even inquire how they will be used. Bible stores don’t ask you if you are going to read or burn it. They provide a most worthy product and their intention is to spread the Word of God. You don’t have to have to fill out an application and be approved to buy one.
If you are providing a service, where you are directly involved in going to a home or business, you should be able to say “no” to any request that does not work for you, whether it is on religious grounds, safety issues, distance, the ooky factor. You do not need to explain it to anyone, either.
Let’s cut to the chase here. Should a florist who has a sincerely held religious belief that the races are not to mix be allowed to denyflowers for a mixed race wedding? I think it is illegal for a florist to deny service on the basis of race in every state. How is this situation different?
YFC, color of skin is not a choice.
Sexual activity is a choice.
I can not believe you do not know the difference.
How is being transgender a “sin”?
Sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Did you choose to be straight, or is there some lingering thought in your mind about that?
Then Obey Him C&H
Aiding and abetting sodomy marriage is a mortal sin.
If there is no repentance on the part of the sodomy couple, or others participating, they will spend their eternity in Hell.
CCC: ” 1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
– by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
– by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
– by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
– by protecting evil-doers. ”
Those who wish to live a homosexual lifestyle can do so without involving Christians and others who believe it is a mortal sin.
God gave them a free will. He also gave the rest of us a free will, not to be usurped by activist homosexuals.
People in her area should support the Zimmerman catering service.
If someone does not wish to participate in a homosexual marriage, or abortion, or view pornography, etc., they should not be forced to do so.
Ah, the big question of “Society’s” right to “require” its legal construct citizens (corporation) in their behavior, still remains an area for further reflection and argument. Many say that no “business” should be required to “do business” with self-professed homosexuals. Oh, the horror, the horror! Also, businesses that provide proper warning to potential customers and to employees, many say, should also be free to permit smoking, and other things in keeping with its legal recognition as a “person.” If put to a vote, the great majority of Americans, for example, would say that it is entirely fine to permit smoking in a bar, where minors cannot ever enter. In other words, who are the “watchers” that have such extensive power over everyday decisions of Americans? Homosexual behavior is abhorrent to the majority of Americans, the large majority. Why, then, should businesses, large and small required to bend the knee and provide normal services to homosexual “couples” and “groups.” Let them protest and stage boycotts — just say no. The response that “it is the law” means nothing, as laws can just as easily be changed. The concept of what is “fundamental” to being an American is the larger and central question: one that the Supreme Court is completely unequipped to answer. Homosexuals, it can be accurately assumed, will do all they can to insist that they must be accommodated in all things, and with a corporate smile (or else!). Americans that love freedom know better.
So good to see Common Sense was involved…..thank you to both parties.
Brave woman. Too bad she had to take down her Facebook page. I’m sure the bullies are coming after her in full force.
If I start a business I need a business license, no matter how small or how large. In fact, in many cities I need a license in whichever town/city that I work or do business. Now, the question is – what does that business licence require me to do. Must I obey all of the rules governing businesses, or just those that meet my beliefs? What if I don’t believe that people should be paid as much as minimum wage, do I have the right to pay less? What if my business is renting apartments? Do I have the right not to rent to people of certain racial or ethnic groups? Do I have the right to discriminate in my hiring of employees? Do I have the right to refuse service to members of racial and ethnic groups that I don’t like. If I ran a store, do I have the right to discriminate against racial and ethnic groups I don’t like? If I run a catering company, do I have the right to refuse to serve customers whose beliefs don’t agree with mine? If I have a business license, the answer to all of these questions is “no” isn’t it?
Bob One, I have had business licenses in the past, and I was never told that having one meant any of the above things you wrote. That being said, in your opinion, are you now saying that ALL business owners are SERVANTS OF THE STATE? Where in the Constitution is this implied?
People from all over the world have, and continue to, legally immigrate to this great nation in order to escape the tyranny you appear to be so comfortable and snug with.
The government exists to be the SERVANT of the PEOPLE,
and that means business people as well.
From the ‘Declaration of Independence’ in Congress July 4, 1776:
“…. Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness, – Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. – That whenever any Form of Government because destructive of these ends, its the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
Obama by his Executive Orders has been and is, violating the US Constitution for his own political purposes.
Bob One, if the owner of a church supply business, was approached by a customer who wished to purchase a chalice, hosts and wine for the stated purpose of using them during a “black mass” involving satanic worship, would you say that our American Constitution states that they must sell the requested items to that customer?
Yes! It is against the law to discriminate if you have a business.
So, Bob One, it would seem that you want no King but Caesar. That is your choice and one you will be called upon to answer for one day. Unfortunately for you and for other folks who fool themselves into believing they can put Caesar first while persecuting those who choose Christ, you will have no law or Lord to protect you when judgment comes.
But that too is your choice.
Bob One also just proved he does not believe in objective evil therefore is not Catholic
Oh, but Canisius, evil is legislated by the State. Good and evil are decided by those in the power chair – I mean, those elected by the dumbed-down – I mean – highly educated people of the United States.
Unless that is, it is another State, say a Talibanesque State that advocates for something the Left doesn’t like. Then they are bad, evil and wicked. The fools refuse to believe that giving up the true liberty of Christ is advocating for the slavery of whatever overlord wins election – and by whatever means.
“Bob One also just proved he does not believe in objective evil therefore is not Catholic.”
You are right Canisius and Bob One had already proved everything that one really needs to know about a very lost soul when Bob One stated it was the bishop’s “pleasure” to place a Tabernacle wherever he wants. Bob One zealously shows more defense, loyalty and consideration for perversion than he did when it came to loyally speaking up against the perverse act of DELIBERATELY hiding the Blessed Sacrament from the faithful. Bob One never made a single statement of support for the truly courageous caterer for being a good and moral sign of contradiction in the pervasive culture of death. Bob One never made one single statement of support regarding the importance of the Tabernacle being placed in the most prominent location within the Church. Bob One is defending the “pleasures” of erring and lax bishops and defending the twisted perversions associated with the culture of death. …You will know them by their extreme disloyalty to God but even more so will you recognize that disloyalty to God when you read the loyalty that they show to the false idols and perversions of the day.
Bob One –
God comes first.
Gods laws above the laws of man. Remember this!
All laws in the US are not in accord with God’s will. Abortion and sodomy marriage are only two.
Bob One –
Smokers, homophobes and overt “Born-again Christians” are discriminated against repeatedly by liberal owned businesses yet no fits of outrage by the media about that!
Bob One, you are full of baloney.
One must NEVER go against his rightly formed conscience.
Even if it REQUIRES breaking EVIL civil laws.
You certainly do not know the Catholic Faith very well !
CCC: ” 1903 Authority is exercised legitimately only when it seeks the common good of the group concerned
and if it employs morally licit means to attain it.
If rulers were to enact unjust laws or take measures contrary to the moral order,
such arrangements would not be binding in conscience.
In such a case, authority breaks down completely and results in shameful abuse .”
CCC: ” 2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.
Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals
and the corruption of religious practice,
or to social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible.
This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger, or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values. ”
A Catholic has a rightly formed conscience through both Sacred Scripture and the CCC from the Magisterium.
Why would anyone fight to have someone take his money ?
Go where you are supported.
Does a business owner have any rights at all? Or are they at the mercy of the prevailing immoralities? When a business license is taken, does it require one to check their Christianity at the door?
Do homosexuals have the right to ruin and vilify everyone who does not agree with their perversion? Seems like it.
Magdalena, according to Bob One, and folks like him, the answer to your question IS no. We ALL work for the WILL OF THE STATE and ONLY what IT wills for us IS what we now have a “right” to. Of course, if IT wills that IT has “rights” separate from we SERVANTS of the state IT will enact those so called “rights” for ITSELF as well.
Well said Bob One – You can’t just pick and choose your business practices based on personal beliefs (religious or otherwise).
Bob One and Jim L.
Don’t worry, OUR LORD can pick and chose who he allows into Eternal Bliss and who goes to an Eternity of torment, and unless you repent, eventually you will find that out!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
How are you doing Mr. Fisher? I just said a prayer for your recovery.
So when the Fascist State clamps down on you, Jim L, and one day it will cross YOUR line, what will you use to defend your rights? Or do you believe in your heart of hearts that you have no rights? Do you believe that any ‘rights’ you may enjoy come from what the people decide – that is the mass of sheeple moved left or right by those on top who actually engage their brains to organize, mold, and direct the mob to what to the most current agenda demands?
Where do you think the ‘rights’ of the people come from?
If the State legislated laws similar to those of pre WWII Germany, would you comply because, “The State says so?”
You have right to refuse service to anyone unless it is in the case of race gender, or religious affiliation. If these two came into my place I probably wouldn’t serve them.
Gary, some states have expanded who you are not permitted to refuse service to. In the state where they live, they are indeed prohibited from denying service based upon sexual orientation.
The point isn’t that the law has been changed to provide to each new protected group the remedy that was provided in 1965 to the victims of racial discrimination. That is happening and will soon be uniform nationwide. The argument is over what laws should be.
Sensibly, different conditions should call for different remedies, and changing conditions should call for changing remedies. There is nothing magical about those ’65 remedies.
Are you saying that the politicians who run the government and make all laws (currently run mostly by the Democratic Party of Death) should come before the human conscience? What makes these (immoral) politicians god?
God and His will should always be first.
C’mon, Bob One, that is a blanket opinion. If I am a Jewish butcher, am I forced to carry pork or lobster if some customer demands it? And can I be sued if I refuse?
Minimum wage is only fair, people can not control what color they are, and yes, employers DO discriminate in hiring, I would not hire a high-school dropout if the position called for a Phd. But two men attempting a sham “marriage” is patently wrong and in your face and no decent person should be forced to participate in it.
Minimum wage guarantees INFLATION!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Pork and lobster do not have rights, under our system of government, to have themselves sold. Would you like to try another analogy?
YFC, you have the freedom to put beans up your nose and suffer the consequences or cut a hole in your wrist, but it is not a God given “right” to do so, and society should certainly not encourage it. It is the same with sodomy, there is not God given right to misuse your body parts. You have the freedom to do so, but no sane society would ever encourage such a thing and make it a “right”.
Correction: “There is not a God given right.”
The analogy holds because I am not talking about pork or lobsters here. I am talking about the Jewish butcher who could be forced to stock items that he finds religiously repugnant. Try to keep up, will you?
hosemonkey – many people used the same argument to refuse service to black people, and especially to black people who were married to white people.
As I pointed out, people do not have control over what color they are born, people who practice the sin of Sodom DO have control over their actions.
People do not choose to be gay, my friend. Anymore than you chose to be straight. And no one is going to force anyone to sell a product they don’t like. You are the one who seems a bit behind.
People don’t necessarily choose to have nagging, obsessive adulterous thoughts or inclinations either, YFC. They do not choose to have obsessive, plaguing thoughts/desires regarding sex with close relatives either. They do not choose to have suicidal thoughts (often a compelling desire) or thoughts of carrying out extreme violence. These things are a trial…. not who we are. And certainly not who we are called to be by Christ.
What you ‘think’ you ‘think.’ What you ‘do’ is what you become.
As soon as one gives into the compulsive thought/desire, it creates a pathway of fruition for that expression (in the brain if nothing else). Relief. Repeated yielding only strengthens that desire/thought/need that one MUST do it. That’s why it’s called Same Sex Attraction. And that’s what it is – an attraction, not an all encompassing definition of who a person is and the only avenue open to them for self expression.
That said, I’d rather be considered ‘behind’ when human beings were treated with the dignity of being encouraged to rise above rather than give in.
AM, sexual orientation is pretty deeply tied to the very interior of a person. It is certainly a component of the person’s personality which cannot be erased. If you were to try to erase your attraction that I presume you have for men, you would become psychologically ill. Same for a gay person. This insight is actually fairly well recognized in catholic teaching, not using those words per se, but there is no support in the Catechism, for example, for the notion that a person’s sexuality can be divorced from the totality of their identity.
I’m not looking for support in the Catechism regarding whether or not a person’s sexuality can be divorced from the totality of their identity, YFC. I’m looking to the reality that everything we supposedly think ‘we’ are is often only what we think and not what we actually are.
That’s why I don’t believe your parallel regarding whether or not I lost an attraction to men is applicable. When you get right down to it, a lot of that is hormonal, not personality. That’s why when the hormones are gone you have folks like Suzanne Sommers writing books about how to get back to wanting ‘it’.
And society pushes that notion, that you must want ‘it’ or else there is something wrong with a person. Instead of allowing a person to be in control of themselves, think rationally, and allow those aspects of our one time ‘personality’ to fade with age. Sexual expression is promoted as the end all of life. And that just isn’t true which is why a good many people, even those who do not adhere to the Catechism, or the Catholic Faith do not follow that trend. That said, a believing Catholic should try all the more – not because they are better in any way, but rather they have better motivation. Love of God.
The answer is Bob One is that you are once again wrong…the martyrdom (white and red) is starting what side will you be on…I know a guy who runs a stationary store and refuses to sell pornographic magazines does he have the right to do so ? According to you he does not, Should someone be forced to violate their beliefs to satisfy perverts? NO and NO
A rather silly analogy. Magazines do not enjoy the protection of law. Thus a magazine seller is free to discriminate against certain magazines all he wants. People, on the other hand, have rights.
They have enumerated rights. They don’t have rights to buy a cake. You should study up on rights.
Anonymous, the laws on public accommodations are generally pretty clear. People DO have rights to use businesses open to the public without fear of discrimination. Do you remember the Woolworth lunch counter?
No baker has to write or put on a cake something that he or she considers foul, vulgar, blasphemous or against his or her own religion. He or she has the right to refuse and not be punished for it. Most bakers have no problem selling a regular cake, cookies, etc. to anyone in their own bakery, but they have a right to refuse to make certain types of bake goods. Customers have rights but they do not override the rights of a business owner, especially in the religious realm. As has been said, it is a two way street.
The “Anns F.” post was mine.
You are the victim of “silly” thinking. If you are claiming to be Catholic and believe that to practice perversion is a “right”, then I am profoundly sorry for you. If you are not Catholic, then this explains your thinking.
Oh, you who call yourself YFC, now they are trying to force Catholic hospitals to sell the birth control pill and provide abortions. what about the Catholic hospitals’ rights not to deal in such things as you stated above? Could forcing people to sell pornography be next on the list
I love your ‘silly’ magazine analogy, Canisius, especially because it caused YFC to use the word. You can always tell you’ve done well when the words or phrases ‘silly’, ‘vicious’, ‘horrified’, ‘shocked’, ‘appalled,’ ‘astounded,’ ‘Holy Father Francis,’ or ….my special favorite, ‘…at your own peril,” are used. That last one leaves me shaking in my shoes. So powerful a pronouncement!
I especially like it when he quotes the very scriptures he negates to back his selective agenda.
So while I agree that people have ‘rights,’ – so indignant and empowered that sounds – I’d like to respectfully remind folks that whatever rights we have come from God. Helllloooooo. That’s why the notion of pitting our – stomp your foot and shake your curls! – supposed rights against God, His laws, His Nature, His Universe, means diddly. That’s why arrogant people have historically been smacked down by God since the beginning of time.
Folks like YFC understand this, but just don’t care as they want what THEY want now. To heck with future generations and the supposed good of the children they say they are so heartbroken in trying to protect. Wanting to enjoy the supposed liberty of their so-called rights while leaving the aftermath of the great mess and pick up on isle 7 to posterity is nothing but sticking it to everyone – especially kids.
So keep up the good work Canisius! You’re right on track :)
YFC, is legion nowadays, his beliefs and motives are evil and insidious, but I believe his kind is also mad. They declare war on Truth but in the end are declaring war on God, while Satan is smiling at the large harvest of souls he will be reaping due to people like YFC and the pathetic gay and gay friendly clerics who are rotting the Church from within. Just a few weeks ago we had priest comparing the Holy Family to a same sex couple. The rage that is boiling in the ranks of the truly Faithful Catholic is about to explode….may it purify the Church
JUST FOR TODAY
Lord, for tomorrow and its needs
I do not pray;
Keep me, my God, from stain of sin.
Just for today.
Let me both diligently work
And duly pray;
Let me be kind in word and deed.
Just for today.
Let me be slow to do my will,
Prompt to obey;
Help me to mortify my flesh,
Just for today.
Let me no wrong or idle word
Set Thou a seal upon my lips,
Just for today.
Let me in season, Lord, be grave,
In season gay;
Let me be faithful to Thy grace,
Just for today.
And if today, my life
Should ebb away,
Give me Thy Sacraments divine,
Sweet Lord, today.
In Purgatory’s cleansing fires
Brief be my stay;
Oh, bid me, if today I die,
Come home today.
So for tomorrow and its needs,
I do not pray;
But keep me, guide me, love me, Lord,
Just for today!
There’s a big difference between forcing a business to carry an item and a business refusing to provide a service that they sell to others. Though, I do support the right of the caterers to refuse to participate in a religious ceremony contrary to their beliefs.
I also think a Islamic catering business would have the right to refuse service to a catholic wedding on the same grounds.
Bob One, you just proved your an American before you are a Catholic….. ah the “spirit of Vatican 2”
Canisius, you regularly show you are a catholic in ah…the “spirit of the Spanish Inquisition”
JonJ you are another victim of the black legends,, and I will take inquisition over Vatican 2 any day of the week…
Canisus I don’t understand the spirit that you bring up, I am a child from this what you call Vatican II. I wasn’t even born yet when it was created. JonJ is just another person who is of bad will. Lets just blame it on that. Not on the Vatican II. Just because rotten brats have stained that image, it does not mean that its all bad. Many good things came from evangelization of the Vatican II but there are always the bad who stain what good was meant for it.
I know that there were many things gone wrong with Vatican II but I am still learning from that and I understand the concern many have and have had but even in the Vatican II the truth is still there, its people who chose to ignore those truths, it’s people who watered down the mission….There is a lot of rumors going around. I decided for myself to just stay away and do the best I can while I am living in our beautiful faith and church. The rest, God is powerful enough to handle. God have mercy on us all.
Abeca, God bless you for your charitable response regarding Vatican II. That said, there is a book I will recommend to you that may help you to understand the rancor many feel when speaking about that particular council.
The Second Vatican Council – An Unwritten Story by Professor Roberto deMattei and Michael M. Miller is an unbiased report style book about the ins/outs of Vatican II. It is not SSPX or Sedevecantist or rife with conspiracy theories. Just straight reporting. It’s very interesting though and shed much light on Vatican II for me.
While there is much rumor that floats around about Vatican II, there is much ambiguity that was introduced into the Church because of it. It’s not all just ‘misinterpretation’. It would be easier for many to accept if it were a simple misunderstanding.
The following youtube link is an interview you might find interesting. It’s a Michael Voris interview with Bishop Athanasius Schneider. He’s Bishop of Kazakhstan, in full communion, so again, there is no Independent Chapel anything.
I hope that helps. God bless!
Sorry Abeca you are wrong, Vatican 2 was one of the only Council’s ever called by the Church while there was no serious crisis going on for the Church. Most others Councils were called to fight a heresy, Trent was called in response to the protestant revolt, Nicea was called to fight Arianism. Vatican 2 was called while the Church was at its apex in the 20th century. The documents of Vatican 2 were vague and open ended so that the enemies within the Church could cause the chaos they have been causing and then point to these documents to validate the chaos. I pray for new council called by a traditional minded pope to basically overturn Vatican 2 and that would include the NO mass.
I’m sure you would Canisius. Think of all the lovely jobs torturing people that would be available at the Church.
In answer two Bob One……the answer to all those questions you ask is YES not no.
All of our freedoms to do as we wish in business or private life have been usurped by government and here we have another example of a person who wishes all of our freedoms to disappear and reduce humanity to nothing more than robots being directed by those who cannot differentiate between moral or immortal.
There are plenty of gay friendly caterers out there if this couple would simply reach out through the gay Chamber of Commerce or other gay community organizations. The caterer in this story is within his rights to deny service. All power to him.
Prayer in Defense of Marriage
God our Father, we give you thanks
for the gift of marriage: the bond of life and love,
and the font of the family.
The love of husband and wife enriches your Church with children,
fills the world with a multitude of spiritual fruitfulness and service,
and is the sign of the love of your Son, Jesus Christ, for his Church.
The grace of Jesus flowed forth at Cana at the
request of the Blessed Mother. May your Son,
through the intercession of Mary, pour out upon us
a new measure of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit
as we join with all people of good will
to promote and protect the unique beauty of marriage.
May your Holy Spirit enlighten our society
to treasure the heroic love of husband and wife,
and guide our leaders to sustain and protect
the singular place of mothers and fathers
in the lives of their children.
Father, we ask that our prayers
be joined to those of the Virgin Mary,
that your Word may transform our service
so as to safeguard the incomparable splendor of marriage.
We ask all these things through Christ our Lord,
Saints Joachim and Anne, pray for us.
Yes I feel the same way. I agree with you mrpkguy. I wish this website would discern that.
I was responding to mrpkguy’s real honest question, questioning this Catholic website, was it necessary to place their picture in an unnatural nature. It is disturbing editors..where is your discerning in this action.
“Bob One”: Ah, the liberal canard — trying to link elective homosexual sexual behavior with minority’s and with other people found to be covered by Federal policies. Please review much of the current literature about how homosexual sex is not the same as being born with black (or other minority) skin. (And, while you are at it, also ask the same question about other tendencies to which certain people are compelled to act, such as serial violence, or adultery, or pornagraphy, or pediphelia, and the like.) As to other Federal policies, such as the minimum wage, there is much growing disagreement, and changes may well be in order (except for the crazy USCCB, and loony liberal states such as NY and CA). Many argue that a business should be permitted to “barter” with laborers for wages and other benefits, at least to a substantial degree. In fact, homosexual behavior is a special area, because it threatens the fabric of society and its core — the traditional family. Another special area is couples living together without the benefit of marriage, and in having children out of wedlock. Society should make clear its intolerance of such behavior and support businesses that, say, will not rent hotel rooms or apartments to such folks. But, legally speaking, you may be correct that society will follow profit and expediency in making more and more laws that will ultimately destroy personal freedoms and choice. You did not say, but your argument leads to the issue of, elimination of the 501c3 tax free status of churches (especially the Catholic one) that refuse to embrace deviancy as its own norm. (Taka a look at the Bob Jones University decision of 1983 in the US Surpeme Court — religious liberty, here discriminating against blacks, does not trump the IRS from stopping the school’s tax exempt status; this is the dream case of the Homosexual lobby.) You may win legally, but you will be wrong.
St. Christopher, do you SERIOUSLY advocate not selling homes, renting hotel rooms, or renting apartments and houses to single mothers?
OK, our single mother, with the 3 month old baby, in Alaska should be denied any lodging, in the dead of winter?
Well into the 20th century, hostellers were discouraged from renting rooms to unmarried couples. Unmarried couples were required to pretend otherwise, hotels notorious for laxity were subject to public frowns and increased legal scrutiny. What makes Christopher’s suggestion so incredulous? Incredulous is your bringing up of snowbanks and children traveling without their fathers.
Until well into the 20th century hotels did exactly that, JonJ, and unmarried couples were expected to lie. Hotels interested in their reputation were expected to conduct their operation in a way befitting public decency. Now, of course, hotels advertise rooms by the hour. Some call that progress.
There is no reason to be incredulous over Christopher’s suggestion, what merits incredulity is your introduction of snowbanks and children.
So Brian, of the 40% of children born of wedlock in this country, I guess none of those children are ever 3 months old and all of them are born in climates that are temperate all year round?
No, JonJ, but I expect adults to utilize judgement – when engaging in disputation as well as when renting rooms. Your argument amounts to insisting that adults cannot understand and treat different circumstances differently. Indeed, one can hardly imagine circumstances that differ more than your hypothetical.
Yet are you attempting here to persuade? Why, when your respect for human judgement, upon which persuasion depends, so lacking?
I think St. Christopher is talking about refusing to rent to them if the women is not married and a boyfriend is living there. I once refused to give money on the street to a young woman because she told me the local shelter made her and her boyfriend have separate rooms. Something does need to be done about all these fatherless children and killing them by abortion is not the answer. If people choose that lifestyle, they should have to chose and pay for it on their own.
By forcing them to lie, you just allow society to pretend everything is moral and upright and that a problem doesn’t exist. If the problem doesn’t exist, you don’t even know that there’s something wrong. I don’t see how that’s an improvement.
Everyone wants to support the traditional family. Now, if the boyfriend is living with the g/f and the child, isn’t that a little better than not? By refusing to rent apartments or houses to them, you just encourage the guy to ignore his children.
Now, if we’re talking about refusing to rent apartments to an unmarried, childless couple (and refuse hotel rooms), I guess the idea is to make it cumbersome and difficult to carry on an affair. That means single people would need to have same sex roommates—which means your solution is to enable gay and lesbian couples to rent in peace but prevent heterosexual affairs from happening—unless, of course, you expect to deny rentals to homosexuals too. So, how are you going to decide if same sex roommates are a gay couple or just roommates?
Folks who are actively discouraging affairs can hardly be “pretending” that affairs do not exist. How many adults, ever, do you suppose, have ever been ignorant of affairs? If, as you indicate, you hold that affairs are a “problem”, our question needs to center on the effectiveness of solutions. Judging by the evidence, public approbation was more effective than our current method.
As for your concern of favoring homosexual renters, I’m reminded of the joke about the young man who decided to be bisexual to double his dating opportunities! Let’s just cite it as another advantage of closeting!
mrpkguy – I respectfully disagree. I think that photo is so very revealing. The man is holding his little boy. It is obvious the little boy is looking for a daddy. I think that photo says volumes about the psychological dysfunction of homosexual relationships. Homosexual men, it seems to me, are often looking for a daddy figure. So, in that light wasn’t that photo wonderfully revealing?
It is just so very wrong that in our society we celebrate this dysfunction instead of providing psychological help to these wounded people (in California, I think it’s now illegal to provide reparative therapy).
The Catholic Church has the answers, but often these folks need deep psychological help before they can see the helping hand of the Church.
Very well said, Laura. The photo is revealing. That’s why its so disturbing. And cruel.
Not only are those who should care denying much needed Psychological therapy for those who need it, but they are attempting, via this propaganda, to brainwash the public to believe the lie. Much like the propaganda used in Nazi Germany to encourage the mainstream to view others as less-than-human.
Laura, perhaps you missed it: Both are men, both are full grown, and both have beards. “Little boys” do not have beards. And though I don’t know these two men, I’d be willing to bet that these two men have jobs, pay taxes, have many friends and family members, contribute to society, and they may even go to Church. They are not some psychologically dsyfunctional people that your vivid imagination conjures up.
YFC,- Then why are activist homosexuals trying to take the children (through using the legal system by adoption) of heterosexuals – to teach them the homosexual lifestyle ? ? ?
There are plenty of heterosexual married couples who want children in the USA. So many in fact that they adopt outside the Country.
Why do they want books in the schools about “I have two mommies or two daddies”?
Why is this necessary for young children?
Why do they insist on impacting everyone else’s children?
Activist homosexuals do not want to live and let live.
They want to convert the world to approving of their sinful lifestyle.
I can’t speak for every homosexual or those who want the things you say we want, but let me take a stab at some possibilities:
Then why are activist homosexuals trying to take the children (through using the legal system by adoption) of heterosexuals – to teach them the homosexual lifestyle ? ? ? I don’t think I know any homosexuals who are trying to “take” children, or using parenting to teach anything about a “lifestyle” except a lifestyle that includes love, protection, happiness, and opportunity. Those who adopt presumably do so for the same reason as anyone else who adopts: They want to be parents and believe that they can offer the child something that it isn’t getting from a foster system.
There are plenty of heterosexual married couples who want children in the USA. So many in fact that they adopt outside the Country. well it’s pretty commonly known that those adoptive parents often will not adopt children of color or those with disabilities of one kind or another. This is not universally true, by any means. But it is MUCH harder to find adoptive parents for black kids, or those with Down’s or developmental or physical challenges.
Why do they want books in the schools about “I have two mommies or two daddies”? Maybe “they” want books that teach children what the real world is like. They want books that open the eyes of kids (and the adults who teach them) about realities and truths that they may or may not encounter. This is why we also have Aesops fables, science text books, and simplified American History texts.
Why is this necessary for young children? Because it is necessary for children to understand the world around them. This is the point of public education.
Why do they insist on impacting everyone else’s children? We all impact each other every single day. Children do not grow up, and we do no live, in sterile bubbles in which everything inside the bubble is the same as us, everything is familiar to us, and, in fact, we agree with everything in the bubble. Even if parents dispute the contents of a particular book, the contents can be used to discuss the pros and cons of it. Surely, parents can and should help their children understand the contents and context of what they are learning in school.
Thank you YFC.
YFC the homosexual activist has spoken
YFC is selling the desensitizing of sin. Not all people are stupid and want to buy those lies….
Oh and by the way Dave, I think it is more common for homosexual non-activists to become adoptive parents than the activists you might see at a gay pride parade or a protest action. I can’t prove that, but it’s my sense.
As someone who engages in sodomy you have no sense.. But you do want to indoctrinate children in ways of you perversion, but you will meet violent resistance, I can promise you that …
Cansisus, you do know that it is a crime to incite violence, right? You do know, Dear Editors of California Catholic Daily, that you are participating in that crime, right?
You sound like a prostitute in a honeypot scam crying rape, YFC. Mission accomplished.
Seriously, the more I read your posts, the more I am convinced that you thrive on/need to believe you’re ‘hated.’ You want to be perceived as hated. Seemingly driving Canisius to the ‘incitement of violence’ as you term it, an apparent ‘crime,’ merely ups your satisfaction as you can point and say, “Look, see. Poor threatened me,” to affirm your victim status.
Ann Malley good observation from your post of January 15, 2014 at 2:23 pm. Its interesting how YFC uses that excuse, that he is hated. Its actually a tragedy. Maybe that is why he is not moving forward in His spiritual life, His pride stops him, since he feels hated, it probably motivates him more on the wrong direction. But I can’t help but feel a deep sadness for anyone that thrives in that way. It’s dysfunctional. No matter how one tries to explain to them that it is not “hate” what they perceive but how can they know when they are living in severe immoral sins. Those types of sins are rooted very deep.
I don’t think it is really that homosexual activists feels they are hated, Abeca, but rather that they need/want to feel hated to justify their positions. As in, I am reacting to your hate. It’s you who are doing this, making me act. It gives them a platform on which to call for reaction, change, and false understanding while pointing the finger at the the ultimate distraction – even to themselves – the supposed hater.
That said, I’m all for trying to help each one of us carry the lugging cross that God has given us. (And it isn’t easy for people with SSA – especially not in a culture and sadly even at times a Church – if not in teaching then sometimes in misleading practice – that supports it.)
But it is also true that all those close to Christ have been ‘gifted’ with crosses. So wanting to chuck them or pad them or velvet upholster them is working against ourselves. (Not that one should’t seek obvious treatment for illness and/or seek out those crosses that God hasn’t given to us. That’s nothing but asking for trouble and a sign of pride in my book as it is taking great stock in one’s own ability to ‘Carry the larger load.’)
But I pray that YFC and all those similarly afflicted would look upon the great cross they’ve been given and carry it. Carry it faithfully much like all of us sinners should strive to do. Just think what a champion of Faithfulness someone like YFC could be if he advocated the opposite of what he does. What a champion he would be.
It’s hardly a big leap to conclude that someone who threatens violence against another human being probably hates the person he threatens. For you AM and AC to go on and on about how there is no hate here is so utterly unbelievable given the vicious things that are sometimes said here, simply tells us how biased you really are.
YFC so tell me when will you tell us that your actions here spell hate? You don’t think that describing the infant church as “Bigotry” is hate? I dare say it is hate. You decide to use that word and we will tell you what really is hate….
You bait Canisius to no end, YFC, and you know it. You stir up the hate, knowingly. That is hateful… and biased.
YFC, if you truly love your neighbor as commanded by Jesus, you will want him/her to get to Heaven.
You will adhere to the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
Admonishing sinners, instructing the uniformed, and counselling the doubtful are 3 of the Spiritual Works of Mercy.
When you advocate a sinful lifestyle (sinful acts), you do not love your neighbor; you merely love your sins.
YFC – Those who advocate a sinful lifestyle, want others to spend eternity in Hell with them.
Andy, I should come and spend some time with you and learn how to be perfect as you yourself are perfect.
Anyone who publically promotes a sinful lifestyle – like yourself YFC, is responsible (in part) for all Souls who believe and follow your evil example.
Andy is correct. Those who advocate a sinful lifestyle, want others to spend eternity in Hell with them.
Admonishing sinners, instructing the uniformed, and counselling the doubtful are 3 of the Spiritual works of Mercy.
Unrepentance for GRAVE (Mortal) SINS sends Souls to Hell. Any you are encouraging people to go to Hell by your public support of sodomy and sodomy marriage.
Everyone should use the Bible and the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” in entirety as their source for truth.
“What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”
HE is better than you YFC
Ann Malley writes to YFC, “Look, see. Poor threatened me,” to affirm your victim status.” = Bullseye!
Finally, an admission that you are targeting him and trying to hurt him.
This is a breakthrough!
Good on ya, Anonymous! You are the diligent one. If you take “bulls-eye” to mean personal attack instead of the calling out of a particular vice/agitation technique, that is your decision. Do you let your children hamstring you into silence so easily? Or is it holier, in your opinion, to ‘charitably’ ignore the promotion of vice under the ecclesial umbrella of shhhh. But hey, if we knowingly let things get black enough, the mere mention of the Rosary will have the scent of a grand and holy reform. Just like allowing unemployment numbers to run rampant to the extent that one hundredth of a percent job growth in the seasonal job market is celebrated like the second coming of Christ.
As to yourself, Anonymous, you may not realize it, but by calling out others you have just underlined your own mad-on BIAS in targeting SSPX and other non-compromisers.
So good on ya and thanks for calling yourself out :)
O Ann Malley/Catherine (are you the same person?) as much as you amuse yourself at others expense, you should be able to take a little joshing, too.
I know you’re unaccustomed to consistency, Anonymous, considering you flip and flop on the position of whether or not those who support gay marriage should present themselves for communion, but no, Catherine and I are not the same person. Although it may be best for you to run this thread by your priest or Bishop and he could tell you for sure. But don’t cross diocesan lines or else you might get a different answer.
Oh, what to do??!!!
So thanks for the laugh. That was certainly on your dime as I didn’t write your post.
Ann Malley, consistency? You don’t even go to a Catholic Church. You’ve decided that it is against your conscience to worship in the One True Church. Then, you come onto a Catholic website and insult and harass people for not obeying the bishops of the Catholic Church. And you tell lies about people, like the one about me that your wrote above. (I don’t know what inspired that pile of horsehockey.) And you are just plain nasty. So don’t pretend you are some holier than thou saint.
God bless you, Anonymous, for your good example.
anonymous writes, ” (I don’t know what inspired that pile of horsehockey.)” ? = You inspired it. Thou doth always protest too much!
anonymous writes, “Then, you come onto a Catholic website and insult and harass people for not obeying the bishops of the Catholic Church.” = Gee anonymous, not one measly word to YFC for coming on a Catholic website to harass faithful Catholics by introducing his 22 year live-in partner in temptation and mortal sin….. because according to anonymous they have now been told by some shepherds and some bishops that their mortal sins are not really sins and they are being praised and protected under the banner of pretending to be in “full communion.”
Anonymous there was not one mention either of the horrific sacrilege of YFC being an extraordinary eucharistic minister. Unlicensed and inconsistent physician heal thyself. It is well known that back alley physicians always prefer to work their anonymous practices in the dark.
Thank you, Catherine. That said, there is another Anonymous poster who noted with regard to the SSPX that according to Colin B. Donovan, STL:
“… there is a great danger that starting from the material schism of refusing submission to the Pope, that all these groups have in common, the Catholic cannot long maintain the schizophrenic position of saying they are being submissive to the Pope while disobeying him. At some point they must choose and formally adhere to the schism of the group.”
What the above Anonymous poster seems to refuse to acknowledge is that it is precisely the schizophrenic position of his/her saying he/she is in full communion with the Church while dismissing what the Church has always taught is far more damaging to the whole Church. IOW: They pray/speak with their lips (oh, I am in full communion) and yet disobey and form schism in their heart and the hearts of the young by practicing that which is against the Faith. When called on the anomaly, the rules giving Bishops all the authority are immediately cited. (It mirrors precisely the ridiculous disconnect of saying the Tabernacle should be front and center while giving the permission to the Bishop to set it – with Our Lord as King inside – to the side or even in a back room.)
Catherine, I’m sure that you would prefer that your various attempts to shame me because of my lifetime of love and commitment that I have shared with you would cause me to run and hide and stay silent. I just want to assure you that your shaming tactics aren’t working. If anything, it shows me that if I am strong enough to withstand your trumped up accusations of “harassment”, then I MUST do so for those who, because of their youth or their nature, might succumb to your shaming. And if you have viewed the suicide statistics for young LGBT people, you know that shaming others has lethal consequences.
Good grief, YFC. Enough of the “shaming” and “phobic” pop-culture rhetoric. Pointing out sin and the consequences thereof is not ‘shaming.’ It’s called – Truthing.
What about those poor souls with SSA that do not want to embrace that temptation and desire to remain chaste? Would you have them deprived of the Truth so that they are left with having to embrace temptation? For those that do, that is their choice. And there are consequences. But for those who do not want to live that kind of life, despite strong temptation, they should also know that they are doing the right thing in resisting the urge.
AM, I’m not sure what your question at all has to do with the conversation, but no matter. I think people who choose to remain celibate should be encouraged to do so and helped to fulfill their commitment. I’ve said as much before, as you can verify with the CCD personal archivist Catherine. I would especially never want to dissuade someone who believes that celibacy is essential for their salvation to do anything other.
Just go with the flow of conversation, YFC, instead of back tracking to seeming misunderstanding about who is or who isn’t sticking to the topic. That said, thank you for saying that you are not here to dissuade those who opt for celibacy. And it is required, YFC, for those outside of marriage. And when one falls, one needs to confess it with the purpose of amendment.
That’s why I thank GOD for confession as we all are falling so very often.
AM You REALLY enjoy telling other people what to do. We used to call it bossy. AM: “Just go with the flow of conversation, YFC, instead of back tracking to seeming misunderstanding about who is or who isn’t sticking to the topic.” And then there is the matter of the log in your own eye about every other of your posts.
There’s a word for you, too, YFC. Prissy. That’s passive-aggressive bossy wrapped with a bow that is pulled taut at the edges with plenty of curly cues. That’s why you like to inject things like:
“AM, I’m not sure what your question at all has to do with the conversation, but no matter.” And other such misdirecting falderal.
Either you are ignorant in not understanding the ‘why’ of my question – which you are not – or you are attempting to paint yourself as slavishly generous. It doesn’t matter. Much like your distraction of accusing me of liking to tell others what they should do. I could say, “Repent you woeful sinner,” but I don’t, YFC. That wouldn’t be my place.
IOW: Playing obtuse doesn’t suit you.
That said, it is within the realm of my presence on this forum to call out your twisting of God saying, “… it is not good that man be alone.” If men were supposed to be with men sexually – I’m sure Our Lord would have created a male/male pair. He didn’t. As for company, there is an entire world out there to keep you ‘company.’ The sticking point it seems for you is sex. Otherwise, there would be no issue as men have been friends with men.
God bless :)
God bless you for your continued charity! The reason dissenters feel so very comfortable to refer to themselves as fellow Catholics when they are purveying perversion is that they realize that the Catholic Church is the true refuge of sinners and when habitual sin overcomes one’s heart and intellect they will often attack that which they recognize as the Truth. We will continue to pray for those dissenters who harass the Catholic faith by pretending to represent what Christ’s True Church teaches. Can you imagine going on an Islamic website selling the perversion of same sex acts and same sex unions and then referring to yourself as YFM. Good Luck! The reason that Jesus Christ is being attacked and harassed so vehemently by those who reject his Revealed Truths is because Christ allows free will and since the beginning of time there have always been those who have chosen to abuse that gift while persecuting the One who gave them that gift.
Catherine your are right, in reply to your comments January 23, 2014 at 10:04 am. Also another reason we have so much dissent it is because of people Like Brian S, who keeps making excuses for them and throwing the faithful under the bus thinking he is being charitable. I dare say, he is not one bit charitable to those of strong convictions in Christ, his intelligence needs more correction. Its the man made views of his that are his growing flaws. His lack of understanding of the spiritual level of growth that some display, there are higher levels and lower levels and some not having any…..he lacks the understanding of those things….since he does, he finds some here not caring. Instead he does not self reflect because if he did, he would choose his words and actions better before he posts another comment.
How can any man, any decent man make excuses and have false compassion for sodomy? He will deny my charges but I can only judge by his comments here, they may not be so direct but they are the devious ones that concern me, they are light and small but growing as he chats here. His priorities are still needing correction. More rosaries, more sorrows, more tears from our blessed Virgin Mary to offer up, more passion to reflect on.
Abeca Christian, Thank you again for your valuable and accurate insight that beautifully conveys such truth and love. I completely agree with your 12:41pm post. God bless you always sweet sister in Christ! I would also like to thank and ask God to bless Mark F. like you did Abeca for his recent posts that contribute and convey much strength and courage in upholding the teachings of the Catholic Church.
AM I wasn’t being at all obtuse. I was calling you out on your incessant desire to control conversations and people around you. You do it all the time here, hence, you are bossy. I’m quite sure I’m not the first person to tell you that and I’m sure I won’t be the last.
Thank you for showing your true colors, YFC. You are prissy in the extreme, using obtuse as a favored fashion statement.
And if you ‘feel’ controlled, that’s your issue. Nobody can control conversations and/or the people around them. Especially not on an open forum. So whatever ‘control’ issues you have, please stop projecting them onto others to make yourself feel…. more in control.
AM, Except that God did create male/male pairs. All over nature males of various species pair bond with other males, and females with females.
God didn’t create the perversion of his creation – man did that, YFC. Stop playing dumb.
Unless maybe that’s where unicorns went. Noah mistakenly took to shacking up male unicorns as a pair and – well – the rest went puff with the magic dragon.
the oh so brave YFC and his lifetime of sodomy….
“Would you have them deprived of the Truth so that they are left with having to embrace temptation? For those that do, that is their choice. And there are consequences.”
Great post Ann Malley! And so very true!
OK, so her “shaming” won’t work. But let me ask, how do you square your same-sex attraction with what the Church teaches on human sexuality?
Do you deny that the Church really believes what everyone knows she believes?
Do you just dig your head in the sand and pretend that you didn’t hear what the Church teaches?
Do you just change the subject or maybe point your finger at the sins of someone else?
I’m very curious how you square away your own shortcomings with what the Church teaches.
God bless you for this post, MarkF. Avoiding sin of all varieties is darned hard, but impossible when willfully ignored.
I wrote once regarding YFC, what a champion he could be for Christ if he chose to carry the heavy cross of SSA chastely for love of God. While it appears for the moment that he has declined, it seems you have decided to make that journey. You have my prayers and admiration.
Adolph Hitler is the one who said if you tell a lie big enough and often enough, it will be believed. Shame on you.
I’m sorry, Catherine, don’t kill yourself because I said that. I’m just really disappointed in your go-to argument that everybody that says something I don’t like is gay. There are many faithful Catholic posters here who have never said anything to YFC and I did not even know the things you said about him. I never saw a post that introduced his partner or that said he was a Eucharistic Minister. But honestly, since you lied about me, I don’t know if you are lying about him, too. I have never heard of a priest or bishop that says mortal sins are not sins. I have heard that not all grave sins are mortal sins. That is the teaching of the Church. I have never heard sin praised because a person is in full communion with the Church-that is a ridiculous concept. I just really wonder whether you are understanding the discussion. It’s not OK to say things about people that aren’t true. An aside, do you have Randy Engle’s book The Rite of Sodomy? I have heard that it also covers homosexuality and pedastery in the traditionalist orders. Can you verify?
k-anonymous writes, “I have never heard sin praised because a person is in full communion with the Church-that is a ridiculous concept.” = Archbishop Weakland retired as Archbishop in 2002. In July 2009, he published his memoirs under the title of A Pilgrim in a Pilgrim Church: Memoirs of a Catholic Archbishop dealing with the issues of ongoing Church reform. = Ridiculous concept or just one of many!
“In 1984, Weakland responded to teachers in a Catholic school who were reporting sexual abuse by local priests by stating “any libellous material found in your letter will be scrutinized carefully by our lawyers.” The Wisconsin Court of Appeals rebuked him for this, calling his remarks “abrupt” and “insensitive.” In 1994, Weakland said those reporting sexual abuse were “squealing.” He later apologized for the remarks.” – Wikipedia
YFC writes, “Catherine, I’m sure that you would prefer that your various attempts to shame me because of my lifetime of love and commitment (22 year praising of a mortally sinful lifestyle including being an Extraordinary Eucharistic Minister) that I have shared with you would cause me to run and hide and stay silent. ” = Praising mortal sin under the banner of being in “full communion.” What clergy member is also praising sin while allowing YFC to distribute the Blessed Sacrament as an Extraordinary Eucharistic Minister, under the banner of being in “full communion?” = Ridiculous concept or *sacrilegious reality! *
a lifetime of mutual support, love, and commitment is sinful according to Christ where exactly?
YFC – you left out SODOMY as usual. SODOMY is the real reason for homosexual activity.
Gen 19:1-19; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 1:10; 1 Tim 1:10.
CCC: #2357, 2358, 2359 and 2396.
You can get a lifetime of mutual support, love, and commitment from your parents. Most importantly you can get these from Jesus Christ.
Sending someone you care about to HELL for eternity is not love. Supporting someone you care about in mortal sin is not love.
CCC: ” 2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.”
MAC, my parents are both passed. But you are right about Jesus. But nobody said that Jesus is the only person in a person’s life. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have marriage, and God would not have said that it is not good that man be alone.
YFC, there were no other persons when God created Adam and Eve.
He did NOT create Adam and Adam2, or Eve and Eve2 so same sex persons could commit sodomy or other perverted marriage acts.
Do not twist the words or work of God as written in Genesis.
God also said to go forth and multiply.
Matthew 10:35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and a man’s foes will be those of his own household.
37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.
Read more: https://www.ewtn.com/ewtn/bible/search_bible.asp#ixzz2r9wu5jiX
Catherine is right: I still have a letter written from a Phoenix diocese priest threatening me with a petition to the then-bishop for my “excommunication” for writing the diocesan clergy vicars about his perfectly horrendous public behavior. I also got the lawsuit threats (what they used to do in Phoenix diocese was hit you with a court order to stay away from “their properties”; he also threatened a suit for ‘defamation’). I get it out periodically for a laugh. (Oh. By the way, he eventually left in a big flame of fire, denouncing (subsequent) Bp. Olmsted of course, and is now a Metropolitan Church ‘priest’, where I assume he is much happier I could be wrong in that assumption, though.)
Thank you Steve Phoenix for your post. My friend received the same kind of threatening letter from the local bishop when she wrote to him about her teen son being groped by another bishop while on a Confirmation retreat. It also proven true when the district attorney investigated but my friend never received any type of apology. This caused a great deal of pain and suffering. The family never sued. They love the Catholic Church and they understand the teachings but they worked so very hard to make sure that this would not happen to others. They are a wonderful family and thank God that these parents had taught their children the faith well enough where the children knew that this was an action of a very sick individual and not representative of how Christ intended for his Church to operate. I have noticed that when you are honest about the terrible disloyalty and filth that has shown forth when people bring it up, including strangers, that they are very understanding when you are honest and not sweeping it under the rug. Another friend asked me to go on an Internet radio show to talk about the scandals and why this was happening in the Catholic Church. The person who was interviewing and asking me the questions was a Baptist minister. Steve, I could tell by the questions that this Baptist minister was asking me that he was very scared that this was taking place within the Catholic Church.
continued from January 23, 2014 at 9:41 am
Steve Phoenix, This Baptist minister was interested in hearing John 6 (6-67) After this, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him. 67 (6-68) Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away? 68 (6-69) And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 (6-70) And we have believed and have known that thou art the Christ, the Son of God.”- Douay-Rheims
This Baptist minister was incredibly amenable listening and interested because he was hearing the truth without excuses or the sweeping of the many Judases under the rug. I did not place all of the blame on those in authority who have betrayed their vows, I tried to explain that it is the betrayal and collective sins of everyone that have also led to such turbulence within the Mystical Body of Christ.
It would be terrifically helpful if you’d ascribe some name to your comments, Anonymous, besides Adolph Hitler and you. Otherwise, nobody knows to whom you are speaking.
That said, Adolph was right. And many use this tactic.
Actually, it was Joseph Goebbels.
But it’s pretty much become the mantra of lobbying.
You should know, Siollan. You say you believe the New Testament and all I see of your being in the Barque of Peter is to facilitate tearing out the baseboards until you get to the beautiful, blue sea beneath.
I don’t know that Canisius is inciting violence. That would entail possessing an influence capable of motivating others, and there is no evidence of that.
However, there is an escalating tone of threatening violence, all wrapped up in some kind of perverse rationale that sounds a lot like violent Jihad; the virtue of hatred, “purification” by violence, fetishizing martydom, and framing an explosion of violence as inevitable and imminent. Seriously, sounds like someone with a cache of weapons and a half-written manifesto.
Siollan, Canisius says he was beaten and abused when young by his mother’s lesbian lover. Thus his hatred for the lifestyle.
Anne -His hatred is towards all gay people, real and suspected. It’s killing his mind and soul. His mother’s lover is winning! I just said a prayer for him.
C&H my mind and soul are alive and well……
But if you carry all this hurt around, isn’t your mother’s lover still hurting you and winning? Again, I’ve been there, not as bad as yours, but I’ve been there. I’ve had the anger, uncontrollable rage, remorse that I didn’t protect myself better, all of it. How about your family? How do they handle the aftermath of the horrible things which happened to you? Are your mother and her lover still involved in any way in your life or those close to you? I still would like you to talk with a priest you’re comfortable with.
No C&H you haven’t been there, I only communicate with my twin sister, none of my other sisters as she is the only one who actually cared. “Are your mother and her lover still involved in any way in your life ” They know better, though I have heard they are no longer together but they are both liars so who knows what the truth is, I can tell you the “lifetime companion” lies in a hospital bed finally paying for her sins..may the grim reaper visit her soon. Hell Awaits… Ha as for talking to priest the only good one I know was removed for being too traditional and devote and replaced with a flaming queer. The best way I deal with this is explosive anger if I was 10 years younger I would reenlist in the Legion… Sorry C&H I don’t buy into talk therapy,
Sounds a lot like someone wanting to incite martyrdom, Siollan. And that escalating tone of violence is the desired tune of an activist – not the maligned individual that just wants to be left in peace.
Sorry Silllan, I do own weapons but I am married with a family
And thank God you are willing to protect that family, Canisius, as Our Lord intended. The world at large needs men like you!
yup it does. That occurred to me too Siollan.
Here’s to a holy martyrdom and final destruction of the political left and homo-sex mafia
Editors don’t let YFC bully you, don’t let him threaten you. Enjoy your freedom now…..while we have it. But let me tell you YFC that when we all die, we will all have to answer to our Lord, so while you may hide behind the laws of man, God’s laws are more powerful and He gives the last word! NOT YOU.
YFC, I am stating a fact, try and indoctrinate my kids with gay filth just try it…you don’t scare me with your thought crime threats, you really don’t.. Go ahead and sic your government thugs after me
YFC is the typical leftist he will SCREAM diversity and tolerance at top of his lungs, but like all real leftist he will tolerate only his own views, and will demand conformity to them….
Setting an EVIL EXAMPLE of a sinful lifestyle (sodomy marriage) for children is a MORTAL SIN.
Children learn from their parents (biological or adoptive).
Clearly sodomy is performed in a same sex marriage.
If two adults choose to go to Hell that is their business. God gave all of us a free will.
See Jesus’s words in Mt 18:6 – “but whoever causes one of these little ones to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millsone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.”
“They are not some psychologically dsyfunctional people that your vivid imagination conjures up.” = Perverse attachment that worships the false idol of homosexuality
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH-SECOND EDITION
1849 – Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as “an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law.”
“For thehe sake of His sorrowful Passion have mercy on us and on the
“Without fail, [the vice of sodomy] brings death to the body and destruction to the soul. It pollutes the flesh, extinguishes the light of the mind, expels the Holy Spirit from the temple of the human heart, and gives entrance to the devil, the stimulator of lust.” – St. Peter Damian
”[The vice of sodomy] leads to error, totally removes truth from the deluded mind . . . It opens up Hell and closes the gates of Paradise.” – St. Peter Damian
”[The vice of sodomy] is this vice that violates temperance, slays modesty, strangles chastity, and slaughters virginity.” – St. Peter Damian
[The vice of sodomy] defiles all things, sullies all things, pollutes all things.” –
St. Peter Damian
Catherine beautiful most! That is the truth!
In a remarkable affirmation of the Gospel message, he warns against the ultimate sin of despairing of God’s mercy and the necessity of fasting and prayer to subdue the passions:
“… beware of drowning in the depths of despondency. Your heart should beat with confidence in God’s love and not grow hard and impenitent, in the face of your great crime. It is not sinners, but the wicked who should despair; it is not the magnitude of one’s crime, but contempt of God that dashes one’s hopes.” 
Your interpretation of the photo speaks volumes.
THANK YOU mrpkguy! (except for your use of the verb “grace.”) But glad to see someone’s awake this morning. My initial attempt to question the “moderating” of the photo was censored (too cheeky?), so I’ll try a different tack: Was it necessary to include the photo of Skippy and Buffy?; After all, this is a Catholic website.
Hey, it looks like mrpkguy’s photo comment got deleted. What’s up with that?
Yes whats up with that? Lord have mercy…..no wonder my comment is on another box….
Yes ma’am, photo comment posted then scrubbed. Nothing offensive that I could detect, though it’s inescapable that moderating be subjective. Thus, who will guard the guardians? Hmm.
That could have been partially my fault, as I posted something twice because I did not think it went through the first time, but it did. I then asked he editor to delete the first post and leave in the latter one which was written better, except my computer is skipping letters sometimes and my name was not correct. I might have confused the poor editor. My apologies.
Given that the overwhelming majority of those who act out Homo-Anal Behaviors were themselves molested as Boys – the analogy is apt.
Even Tammy Bruce in her book “the Death of Right and Wrong” warns that such Homosex Abuse should never be propagandized as a ‘coming of age’ scam.
But then the two most common factors in Male Prison inmates is growing up without a Father in the House and Homosex Abuse as Boys.
SEE: Leading California gay rights leader arrested over child porn possession
Differences between renting a traveler a room for the night or pouring a cup of coffee and the extended personal effort required for significant services contracted months in advance should be obvious. There is no reason for the law to treat these wildly different services the same.
It is hardly respectful to deny one the right to choose their own work, and no one would be complaining if this caterer refused to serve a Klan wedding. Of course, such a denial would be perfectly legal since “political affiliation” is not currently a protected class.
However, we know, through the McCarthy blacklist and other historical events, that individuals have been discriminated due to their political beliefs. At different times and depending upon whose ox is gored, calls for that class to be protected have been made, and they will no doubt be made in the future.
While loss of freedom for workers and business owners may be justified in some cases, it is clearly one thing if the alternative is forcing black travelers to sleep in their car, but it is another thing if the alternative is for that couple to simply call another of many willing caterers for their future event. The remedy for Jim Crow was a specific fix for the problem of its time. That problem does not exist for these two men.
Those adults who wish to live a homosexual lifestyle can do so without involving Christians and others who believe it is a mortal sin.
God gave them a free will.
He also gave the rest of us a free will, not to be usurped by activist homosexuals.
The homosexual lifestyle should not be permitted to influence or impact minors – such as adoption, teaching the homosexual lifestyle in public schools, etc.
God, then family, then Country.
Our Country has several laws (such as abortion) that are mortal sins.
Sodomy marriage is a mortal sin.
We should never tolerate nor support sin.
No one is more against same-sex marriage then I am. But I wonder what’s the best way we can talk about this to a world that is so far from God on this issue? Is saying “No!” the best way to talk about the faith?
I think that the answer has to come from the mercy of God. Homosexuals, like most modern people are consumed by feelings of their own guilt. For them God can feel like a scolding parent. They have forgot that Jesus loves them and forgives them. He died for our sins, for all of our sins. So often I hear modern people (and homosexuals for sure) talk in terms of duality. For them, homosexual acts have to be thought of as pure and blameless. They contrast this with what they imagine the Church teaches, that all homosexuals are condemned to hell. But they forget about the mercy of God. This is a scary situation to be be in, to feel that your guilt is so bad that God won’t forgive you. Out of this fear comes what we read a lot of on here, that homosexuality is not a sin, and so on.
I believe that this misplaced fear of God is what has caused so much heresy, dissent and chaos. I find it very odd that a Christian with homosexual tendencies doubts God’ forgiveness so much that he has to deny that homosexual acts are gravely wrong. “Lord have mercy on me, a sinner!” Not, “I’m not a sinner because you guys mistranslated the bible.” Not, “Thank God I’m not a homosexual like that other guy.”
MarkF good comments. You are right on so many points. Your opinion is very valuable and honest. I can appreciate that. You are right when you say misplaced fear of God….to fear the Lord is not fear of God but some feel that way because they have not developed a personal gentle relationship with Christ. I also think that this society has been doing a great job at desensitizing the sins of homosexuality, that it produced what we are seeing or hearing about today. There is that neglect and to acknowledgment that help and healing needs to be, but because homosexuality is so complex, it’s easier for people to have misplaced or false compassion. Its mostly due to their lack of understanding God and His laws, His love and His ways.
I enjoyed the parts that you mentioned about Jesus love and His forgiveness. You knelt it. Goes to show us how pride is truly the root of all evil, it can blind us. I often feel sad knowing that any disorder makes a person vulnerable to the tricks of the evil one, if one is not guarded well with the sacraments and the truth.
From what I have witnessed in some, is that it is a scary thing for someone to be vulnerable to God. Especially in that state of mind, immersed with so much sin and without any sign of reflection or ability to reason, mostly lacking humility. I am starting to accept that some actually believe that “they were created that way so why even look deeper.” With any sin, desensitize it, then your mind is open to all sorts of spiritual outcomes and they are always from dark forces.
God bless this catering company for standing up to the sodomites. It’s good to hear someone other than the Russians are doing so.
Ann Malley in continuing:
If I were to tell him that I love him because God created him, he would not believe me. He may be cold to it. If I said “Jesus loves you”…hasn’t moved him enough towards a conversion either. As you know and have tried to explain to him in the past, you see our actions are not rooted in hatred, what moves us to react in our own certain way, is our love for Christ and because we fear the Lord, we hate anything that separates us from our Lord and our Lord did say “you are your brothers keeper”. In truth, it is His actions against the natural law, His defense for the wrong things that actually is telling and would be seen as the real culprit to what really is hate. To go against God is an act of hatred. Especially in the heavy duty promotion of acts against the natural law. But as cold as those actions are….if they would only trust God more and embrace God’s love and forgiveness, their repentance would lead them in that acknowledgement and understanding of how much they were missing.
Human to human….I only see things through my human eye and understanding. When I ask Jesus to be present with me as I pray to Him and worship Him, I often say “Lord how do you do it, many of your children are lost and fallen away, some blame you, some hurt you, even my own sins hurt you etc” I reflect and wonder how He handles it. Of course I know that He is God and can handle it better than I. So then I turn to Mary our Mum, and when I reflect on her 7 sorrows, then I connect myself with what she went through and for some reason feel comfort in her sorrow, also in Jesus passion etc. Since Christ is truth, then how can anyone clinging to their sinfulness, especially grave ones, understand or grow more in depth with their relationship and love of Christ. That is why Jesus commands us to pray for all sinners, which we do.
Often, too, Abeca it seems that we are focused on God loving us and understanding/tending our needs instead of embracing the desire to serve Him. To gift Him. To do for Him as much as is possible.
The only thing we have to gift Our Lord with is our own brokenness and free will because all that is good in us comes from Him. That is why I pray that folks like YFC, instead of seeking comfort in the physical and emotional, would take great joy in the tremendous cross with which they have been given. Carrying that cross which admittedly abrades nature to the bone at time is precisely what gives tremendous glory to God and often marks out His most intimate and true friends.
That is why, I believe, you also embrace that cross that comes to you in a special way with every pregnancy. Yes, it is hard. Harder than it is for others, true. But that is what calls you all the more to carry your burden – because it is Our Lord who has given you that burden to give you the means to show, in some small way, your true love of Him.
Not go to Jerusalem? I think not!
Yes its true what you say Ann…it’s because we are needy people. But what can cure that is dying of oneself. Well if people did what you said, there would be no hell but as we know the truth, is that there is a hell and there are many who live there because of their choosing.
I also believe that we are not alone and that we can lean on God to help us carry our cross. The deeper we lean on that understanding, the more it lead us towards humility. For example “Lord I need help, I can’t carry this cross alone” Well guess what Our lord is there, if we trust and believe, then it is humblings but if we don’t trust and we think we can do better without God, then there is where we fail.
Ann I grew more spiritually closer to our Lord, through my high risk pregnancies and the babies I lost too. I actually offered up all my sufferings, I am grateful too because I have a wonderful husband who helped me right through them. The Lord made us sensitive and made us with hormones, those are something else. lol. But emotions can be good, they warn us, they help us be compassionate and feel His love even more.
Ann also people always feel that there has to be a reason for everything, they are always reading into things too. THE GREAT ASSUMPTION, I call it. LOL……wow how people with pride assume this or that. The what if and could of’s. Simplicity doesn’t always has a cure (nor needs one) or a reason. It just is. Humility doesn’t always have to have answers, it just trusts and reacts in meekness. I don’t know if I make sense, I’m trying to convey what is in the depth of my reasoning but some things can’t be explained but the beauty lies in the zeal to love Christ and to surrender and be vulnerable to our God almighty. He is the Alpha and the Omega of my daily life, He is my joy and mystery. He is the “I am” in our life. The sunshine, the rain, the thunder, the beauty, the mist etc…..from head to toe. There is NO ONE like our Lord….that is what makes it so special. I love what He does to me when He transforms me, especially when I don’t meddle in His work but you know “US” humans we meddle all the time. We fear, we are insecure and that is OK too. He is so beautiful, I believe that I would be taken back and be out of breath if I was given the blessing to even give Him a glance. I Love What Jesus does to us, even when I don’t understand the suffering and feel weak, but notice that He gives us rest. Its hard to describe it but it’s like having contractions, the pain is so unbearable but there are those breaks in between contractions, those small moments of rest.
…the getting closer to God through the cross is so true, Abeca. It feels scary at first, but then He is there. He makes Himself felt too which is a great comfort. But how quickly we forget that comfort – at least for me – when things are going ‘right.’ That’s why the cross is good.
Your labor analogy – how true. Because honestly, while I’ve never quite forgotten the pain, I have forgotten because it is not ‘there.’ Treasure everything. Even the brokenness. That’s what draws Him like nothing else. So yes, I’d say I understand what you’re saying. At least as much as one person can understand another’s experience of Him. Thanks for that.
God made us with emotions for a reason. So we can experience, pain, simplicity, so we can understand what meek feels like, so we can appreciate, love etc. So the pain is there. Once we learn to love the pain and not be afraid of it, I’m sure that is how many became saints. I can tell you I don’t like pain one bit, I am a big baby. LOL God also gives us humor, He has cheered me up many times, sometimes He made me laugh when I was feeling upset about something. When we acknowledge Him in all things, we see His hand in everything.
I am grateful to our Lord for everything.
Thank you Ann…God bless you. : ) The other day I was dreaming up of having a big feast and wish I knew everyone here, I would invite all for a meal. I know that some of us here do not get along, but setting aside those things, a meal, rosary and more prayer time would do us all good.
I like the way you think, Abeca. As soon as you said, love the pain and not be afraid of it, I thought, I’m not afraid of pain so much anymore, but I doubt I’ll ever like it…. let alone love it. (Even though that’s the place we often find Him). And then you said you were a great big baby. Me too. Feels that way when I’m trying to be strong anyway and failing or rather knowing I should be strong and that I should be loving this GREAT opportunity God has given me and I whine/fail/or don’t perform as I’d like.
That’s okay. God loves our desires. If you haven’t already, you may want to read the writings of St. Gertrude the Great. I think you and St. Gertrude would get along famously. I *LOVE* her.
God bless you Abeca and thanks for thinking of the feast. That said, it’s probably better we can’t get together as I’d eat you out of house and home and likely get big as a house. Good company is the best appetizer :)
Thank you Ann : ) I don’t know much about St, Gertrude the Great but it would be nice to study up on her too. I’m still trying to finish up the writings of St. Thomas and St. Augustine though.
I have a lot of reading up to do, even finishing up once again an Introduction to the devout life by Philothea, or an Introduction to the Devout Life
St. Francis De Sales.
We are reading more on the Psalms too.
God bless you Ann M, you are in my prayers…thank you for your comments, I wish I could reply more in detail but since I can’t right now, I will keep you in my prayers. : ) and I meant it when I wish I could have everyone over for a feast and prayers, but its not possible through these kind of meeting places of posts…but I have prayers for all in place of that desire of mine to feast.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Christians get threatened by sodocrats for refusing to participate in the celebration of something that goes against their beliefs. The sodocratic city of San Francisco issued a ruling condemning the teachings of the Catholic Church. Churches get vandalized for upholding the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. At a “gay pride” event in Seattle, Christian street preachers were assaulted by homosexuals. One man was seen punching one of preachers in the head while another one kicked him repeatedly. Homosexuals just do not like Christians. They actually commit acts of violence against Christians. Such viciousness can only be motivated by hatred. Christians have good reason to fear for their own personal safety. I can’t blame any Christians for seeking protection for their lives under the second amendment.
SV – I’m a Christian AND a homosexual. I won’t hurt you so please don’t shoot me. Thank you!
C&H will you read your own post? Such hysteria you have cooked up in your head. God have mercy…..
If you are an active homosexual then you have given up your Christianity, your call to carry the cross. I pray for you to choose Christ and may your disorder not lead you to say things that may promote approval of those sins.
Also if you haven’t noticed….Ski Ven is a Catholic Christian…why on earth would you assume that he would shoot you. Your comment against another person of faith, discredits your view that your a Christian. I applaud your efforts to seeking a Christian faith filled walk but your comments tell something different and much more disturbing….don’t let false hysteria lead your actions. This would be why you have not grown spiritually. How I know? Well I read your comments, they are very telling dear one!
Abeca ~ Ski Ven wrote: “Homosexuals just do not like Christians. They actually commit acts of violence against Christians. Such viciousness can only be motivated by hatred. Christians have good reason to fear for their own personal safety. I can’t blame any Christians for seeking protection for their lives under the second amendment.” Aside from the “Homosexuals just do not like Christians” which is as silly as someone saying “Christians don’t like homosexuals.” bringing in the 2nd Amendment at least suggests the spector of violence against gay people. I don’t think that’s an appropriate way to express your Christianity. The Church doesn’t either.
It is understandable that you do not want to get shot, C&H. In order to help you achieve your goal of not getting shot, I wish to offer you these tips as a service to you so that you can avoid getting shot. 1) Stay away from bad neighborhoods. 2) Do not attempt to car jack anyone. 3) Do not attempt to hit someone with a tire iron. 4) Do not attempt to rob a bank. 5) Do not charge at a police officer with a weapon. 6) Do not break into someone’s home. 7) Do not molest someone’s children. 8) Do not go into a school with a gun and shoot the place up. 9) Do not enter an assembly brandishing a weapon and threatening people. 10) Do not attempt armed robbery of a convenience store. I hope this helps.
How do you solve that situation? I’m a guy with same-sex attraction who came back in to the Church a few years ago. How do you live with this tension?
Mark…. My biggest tension as a Catholic is being able to focus on prayer and not let my mind wander. The Rosary helps me work on this. As for being a Catholic who is also a lesbian, I don’t have a sob story about homophobia. Yes, a few nasty incidents when I was in high school, occasionally someone being cold as an adult, but my family and parish have always expressed love and support. Where the two meet is when I’m asked to explain the Church to fellow gays and explain LGBT people to fellow Catholics. The thing up in Seattle where a teacher got fired for being gay married is one example. What kind of tensions do you have? Are you out to your family and parish?
Skai Ven, since you made fun of C&H below, let me be more explicit about why your post at 3:57 PM on January 16 was utterly indefensible. Perhaps it was because it was indefensible that you declined to defend it, but instead chose to mock the response.
When you wrote, “Homosexuals just do not like Christians. They actually commit acts of violence against Christians. Such viciousness can only be motivated by hatred. Christians have good reason to fear for their own personal safety. I can’t blame any Christians for seeking protection for their lives under the second amendment.”, you made a number of indefensible errors.
First, you make the indefensible generalization that “homosexuals just do not like Christians”. Not only do you provide ZERO evidence for this ridiculous assertion, you refuse to believe that we are your fellow Catholics and therefore your fellow Christians. Besides the fact that many homosexuals are decidedly “meh” about christians, many of us ARE Christians.
Secondly you say that “they” actually commit acts of violence against Christians, another indefensible generalization. The reality is that crimes motivated by homophobia are far far more common than crimes motivated by anti-Christian hatred in the US. The FBI has quite good statistics that prove this beyond doubt. If you need an example of the violent hatred against gay people, you need look no further than the posts that Canisus regularly makes here.
Well, excuse me, YFC, for not taking an asinine comment seriously. I guess I should not notice that at the very same time you claim to be my fellow Christian, you mangle my name as a sign of disrespect for me. I guess everyone should not notice that Christians are being attacked for their religious beliefs by homosexuals because YFC wants to forward the narrative that homosexuals are loving caring people. We should never notice that the City of San Francisco condemned the teachings of the Catholic Church. We should not notice that an elderly woman was assaulted for holding up a sign that voiced support for Proposition 8. We should not notice that they tried to shut down Chick-fil-A because the owner believes in traditional marriage. We should not notice that a homosexual group that called itself Bash Back! attacked churches for supporting Proposition 8. We should not notice that Christians who were in the Castro district were harassed by a mob of homosexuals. We should not notice that a Baker lost his business for refusing to participate in the celebration of something that goes against his religious beliefs or that the same thing happened to a photographer. No, if we happen to notice any of these things, that would make YFC out to be a liar. That would be such an unnice thing to do, that we just can’t do that. So we should stick our heads in the sand while they take away all of our rights.
Dear poor victimized Ski Ven:
I mistakenly added a single letter to your name, which changes the pronunciation of your name not one whit, yet you claim it mangles your name. While you yourself in your castigation of me remove FIFTEEN of the letters of my name. It must be such a sad thing to be victimized as you are. Fifteen letters versus one. Poor Ski. I feel so sorry for you.
SV … No one should be subjected to violence especially an elderly person. In the hysteria after Prop 8, a woman was raped in Richmond because she was a lesbian. Yes. Even growing up with 6 overprotective big brothers, which sort of immunized me from that kind of fear it sent a chill down my spine. I follow the LGBT community reasonably well and I’ve never heard of Bash Back. They represent gays as much as Fred Phelps and the Westbro church represent Christians. As for the caterers, I’m just learning about the SSPX. My religious beliefs are that their sacraments are invalid or illicit and they were arrogant towards my hero Pope John Paul II and also to Pope Benedict. Should I be able to refuse to cater an SSPX wedding without violating the public accommodation laws?
C&H, I suggest that the obligation to provide public accomodation should rightly vary depending upon the level of service requested and the alternatives available to the requestor.
For example, a baker might be required to sell wares from his counter to anyone who walks in, while increasing feedom to selectively contract oneself for more difficult or involved work is preserved. This freedom should increase depending upon the complexity and involvement required and decrease depending upon the avaliablity of other competent providers to the requestor.
All people deserve dignity and respect, including homosexuals, and including when they operate businesses or provide compensated services. To insist otherwise is to define human relationships solely upon our financial transactions, complicate the integration of life, and insist on the modern, and quite non-Catholic, notion of people as mere units of production and consumption.
Pope idolization – isn’t that what the Protestants protested? Looks like they may be right about certain groups that align themselves with *certain* Popes in favor of Truth.
As to ‘catering’ that was a better analogy that I’d thought.
God bless you, C&H
Brian..In principle I agree. I have gigs where the client either picks things up or one of my guys drops it off. Other times we provide waiters, a bartender etc. through the whole event. I wouldent want to subject myself and my staff to say, a Westbro Church event. As for tying it the the availabilty of replacement vendors, I expect it would be hard to write into law.
Ann: Isn’t it only natural that as humans we would develop a special affinity for certain Popes. My grandmother liked John XXIII and my mom appreciated Benedict. I don’t think you can call it idolization, but every Pope should be listened to and respected.
Brian S writes: “…a baker might be required to sell wares from his counter to anyone who walks in, while increasing freedom to selectively contract oneself for more difficult or involved work is preserved.”
Sounds like a more reasonable approach that respects the true dignity of both buyer and seller.
Yes, Popes should be listened to and respected, C&H. That said, Truth should always be listened to and respected. But resisting that which is false and/or seemingly unclear, as much VII teachings are, doesn’t imply disrespecting the Pope. Not at all.
You asked me a question earlier – this thread or another, I forget – as to why I seem so disgruntled with the modern Church. (Sorry for any paraphrasing.) Well, it is precisely this brushing aside of real issues as ‘viv la dif’ or just offering a different entree that is the issue of many traditional Catholics.
Whereas there are the courts to press the hierarchy to acknowledge the pedophile scandal, there are no courts – no pressure points – by which Church hierarchy will be forced to acknowledge the major fail in the roll-out of VII. That is not to say that the Church hasn’t moved on and tried to make the best of it, but the same case could be made for the Church in trying to move on by shunting pedophile priests to different parishes where they could just get on with business. But we have all suffered in the upheaval… and we still are.
So when you intimate that you would not like to cater an SSPX wedding, you are casually brushing aside valid issues of a fellow Catholics who want nothing but the fullness of Truth for you and your children and your children’s children.
God bless and thanks for getting back!
YFC, your attempt at sarcasm is really shallow. Using someone’s initials is not demonstrating contempt for that person. Even a fifth grader can understand that and so can you. You have aptly demonstrated on this website your very low opinion of Skai. It stands to reason that you are using his name as an insult, and now you are trying to pass it off as a typo. You are capable of doing much better than that. Your juvenile behavior shows that you are interested in bringing me down. C&H, you should be able to refuse to cater to an SSPX wedding and I doubt that they would miss you. They certainly won’t be trying to sue you. This is the difference between conservatives and liberals. Liberals have no qualms about using the power of the government to impose their beliefs upon everyone else. This desire to control everyone else’s beliefs is what leads to the consistent pattern of behavior on the part of homosexual activists. That is why we are seeing a national movement of homosexual politicians using the police power of the state to crush anyone who objects to calling sodomy marriage and who objects to calling sodomy a good thing. Homosexual activists are responsible for the laws that force Christians out of business for their beliefs. It is happening in several states, these are not isolated cases. They are also responsible for the attack against Chick-fil-A. They are on the warpath against thought crime.
Editors cut me off for being too long. I shall try to resurrect the rest of my comments. Pardon my long windedness, but there was just so much indefensible stuff that needed refuting!
AM stereo and AC air conditioning……just about right with the heat we are experiencing.
Catherine, I thought the following would be of interest to you: “The Blessed Sacrament should be reserved in a solid, inviolable tabernacle in the middle of the main altar or on a side altar, but in a truly prominent place. Alternatively, according to legitimate customs and in individual cases to be decided by the local ordinary, it may be placed in some other part of the church which is really worthy and properly equipped” (54).
Hey readers, a little advice: “Please Don’t Feed The Trolls.” Maybe the Editors could add that to their Comments Policy.
That said, the idea of commenters in general, who are essentially posting anonymously (names or pseudonyms aside), feeling physically threatened in the vast ether of the internet is hilarious in the extreme. Sounds like an RC Collins skit on the Phil Hendrie show.
Oops, now there I go, contradictorily, handing out treats.
Hey readers, a little advice: “Please Don’t Feed The Trolls.” Maybe the Editors could add that to their Comments Policy.
That said, the idea of commenters in general, who are essentially posting anonymously (names or pseudonyms aside), feeling physically threatened in the vast ether of the internet is hilarious in the extreme. Sounds like an RC Collins skit on the Phil Hendrie show.
Oops, now there I go, contradictorily, handing out treats.
Anony you choose to remain Anonymous. Ann and Catherine both have made charitable observations on some of your comments. I don’t think you are being fair to either of them. and no they are not the same persons.
Anony this to you
But with Anony name, they have the right to ask because anyone can use the Anony name. She is not pretending to being holier than thou. I have not seen any self righteousness from any of her posts. Its nasty to assume with comments of division!
Ann Maloy has been honest and real. I appreciate her honesty. It is refreshing. I know that you are trying to discredit her by using her honesty against her…but that does not work. I see a soul, a soul who will return and unite herself to Christ’s church….she has her heart in the right place, just needs some healing from all the scandals but Anony, if you care to carry the cross as you brag about being in union with Christ’s church, then what you can do is pray for her……
When we take on others care through prayers, when it’s genuine, God’s graces will transform us. You could have protested how Ann see’s you in another way without knocking her down. Especially when it was done in a way that clearly shows that you do not self reflect often but who knows, only our Lord knows better but we can judge by your comments here…as far I can discern, Ann has behaved herself as someone who is still soul searching and does love Christ and His church(and is well nurtured in the wholeness of Christ’s truths)….just like many of us. I feel pained that you have replied to her in such a way. She does not deserve that. You poke at her for not being in union with our church, well that would seem like the attitude YOU accuse her of pretending, to being holier than thou….that is how YOU come across not her, as if you were better because you are in and she is not? You brought that up, that was your point made and not once has she made that point because to be honest, that point comes out bratty and like someone who is throwing a tantrum and just throwing out there any ole argument.
Thank you, Abeca. I appreciate your kindness very much.
God bless you.
God bless you Ann M
Sodomites do not respect themselves and engage in all sorts of abusive acts aganist their persons. How could you expect them to respect the rights of other people?
Anonymous is a garden variety troll, playing “devil’s advocate”…he is in league with the “sodomite” YFC… believe me, he ain’t a Catholic in my book, nor is his loony doppelganger “anonymous”!…both are “modernist’s”, who endorse “gay romance” among Catholics…sodomy is so grave a sin, “it cries to Heaven for vengeance”!
I hope you did not go to a “Catholic” school. I don’t think you attended English class if you did!
If that’s all you got Anonymous, then you ain’t got nothing.
Catherine, your post was really confusing but let me see if I am understanding your issue. People who commit mortal sin are not in a state of grace. They can’t take Holy Communion and can’t be Eucharistic Ministers.
Archbishop Weakland resigned in disgrace after his homosexual affair was exposed. If he was distributing Communion without having gone to confession, he was wrong and did commit sacrilege, but I don’t know that he did. I haven’t read his book. I don’t get what you were trying to say there at all.
The rule on receiving communion is that if you are not in communion with the Church you should not take communion.
I think you are getting this confused with the term “full communion” which applies to Churches or communities or societies that share the same beliefs as the Catholic Church and are a part of it. Members of Christian denominations which are not in full communion with the Holy See are not permitted to take Communion in the Catholic Church.
k-anonymous, I think that you are putting up more smoke and mirrors to distort and distract from the real point. This is about Truth. A Truth that even Our Lady of Akita warned us about. This is not about groups or the reception of the Blessed Sacrament, this is about wolves in sheep’s clothing who have not listened to the Holy See for years but they pretend to be in “full communion” while misleading their flocks. These are the same ear tickling wolves who are the very first to criticize the SSPX while their own hearts and minds and actions are in schism when it comes to accepting or complying with the clear moral teachings of the Catholic Church. Disobedience and compromise is being protected under the ambiguities of “social justice” and they are never called on the carpet for their abusive dismantling of Church teaching because of “collegiality.” And many are still fleeing and abandoning Catholic moral teachings while being protected while pretending to be in “full communion” with the Holy See. This is the deceptive spiritual rot and deformity that is pervasive within the Church and it is very similar to the scandals. No one in authority seems to be able to get a handle when it comes to even admitting that the problem exists or to stop this form of rot and spiritual abuse. This neglect of duty has been far more damaging to the Mystical Body of Christ.
continued from January 22, 2014 at 9:59 am
According to the warnings in the approved messages of Our Lady of Akita, Japan, many are still fleeing through compromises and many have abandoned Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.
“The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see Cardinals opposing Cardinals, Bishops against other Bishops. The priests who venerate Me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises, and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord. “The demon will be especially implacable against the souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of My sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will no longer be pardon for them. “…Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone am able to still save you from the calamities which approach. Those who place their confidence in Me will be saved.”
Catherine, yes. But you can’t say that a schismatic who has left the Church is better than one who hasn’t left (yet). They are both wrong.
Those who attend the SSPX are not schismatics, Anonymous. You seem bent on that, but you are incorrect.
Even so, you seem blind to the schism of the heart. That is belonging to the Church only to believe and do whatever you feel like.
Do you not see Our Lord vomiting the tepid from His mouth? That is those who say they believe but do not act as such or even care that they don’t.
Ann Malley writes, “Do you not see Our Lord vomiting the tepid from His mouth? That is those who say they believe but do not act as such or even care that they don’t.”
Ann Malley, Your response to k-anonymous is providential. It is a replica of the conversation that took place when friends made an appointment to personally speak with Bishop Tod D. Brown. They knew that their relative was the director of Evangelization for the Diocese of Orange, Ca. and they also knew about his live in relationship with his homosexual partner. This was the priest who was given the terribly unholy assignment of telling all Orange County Catholics that they would no longer kneel after the Angus Dei. Imagine that schism of heart! Sending out an active homosexual priest with the unholy declaration to the faithful that they may no longer show reverence by kneeling after the Agnus Dei and many of the flock were scattered with that bitterly cruel and unholy rule.
On the enemies of obedience: The chief is self-love, producing pride, the enemy of humility and charity. Impatience is the enemy of patience, disobedience of true obedience, infidelity of faith, presumption and self-confidence do not accord with the true hope which the soul should have in Me; injustice cannot be conformed to justice, nor imprudence to prudence, nor intemperance to temperance, nor the transgression of the commandments of the order to perfect observance of them, nor the wicked conversation of those who live in sin to the good conversation of My servants. These are a man’s enemies, causing him to leave the good customs and traditions of his order. He has also those other cruel enemies, anger, which wars against his benevolence; cruelty, against his kindness; wrath, against his benignity; hatred of virtue, against the love of virtue; impurity, against chastity; negligence, against solicitude; ignorance, against knowledge; and sloth against watchfulness and continued prayer.
Saint Catherine of Siena, a religious mystic of the 14th century, relays words of Our Lord Jesus Christ about the vice against nature, which contaminated part of the clergy in her time. Referring to sacred ministers, He says: “They not only fail from resisting this frailty [of fallen human nature] … but do even worse as they commit the cursed sin against nature. Like the blind and stupid, having dimmed the light of their understanding, they do not recognize the disease and misery in which they find themselves. For this not only causes Me nausea, but displeases even the demons themselves, whom these miserable creatures have chosen as their lords. For Me, this sin against nature is so abominable that, for it alone, five cities were submersed, by virtue of the judgment of My Divine Justice, which could no longer bear them…. It is disagreeable to the demons, not because evil displeases them and they find pleasure in good, but because their nature is angelic and thus is repulsed upon seeing such an enormous sin being committed. It is true that it is the demon who hits the sinner with the poisoned arrow of lust, but when a man carries out such a sinful act, the demon leaves.” (St. Catherine of Siena, El diálogo, in Obras de Santa Catarina de Siena (Madrid: BAC, 1991), p. 292)
Dear St. Catherine of Sienna Poster:
St. Robert Bellarmine
Just as it is licit to resist the Pontiff who aggresses the body, it is also licit to resist the one who aggresses the souls or who disturbs civil order, or, above all, who attempts to destroy the Church. I say that it is licit to resist him by not doing what he orders and preventing his will from being executed; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior.
(De Romano Pontifice, lib. 2, chap. 29,
Opera omnia, Paris: Pedone Lauriel, 1871, vol. 1, p. 418
“Men must amend their lives, and ask pardon for their sins. . . . They must no longer offend Our Lord, Who is already so much offended.” The Fatima message is a call for men to give up sinful practices which grieve God and draw down His chastisements on the world, and to make reparation for them. Commenting on Our Lady�s request for penance, Sr. Lucia wrote: “The part of the last apparition which has remained most deeply imprinted on my heart is the prayer of our heavenly Mother begging us not to offend any more Almighty God, Who is already so much offended.”
Jacinta, too, shortly before her death remarked: “If men only knew what eternity is, how they would make all possible efforts to amend their lives . . . mortification and sacrifice give great pleasure to Our Divine Lord.”
In August of 1917 Our Lady told the children, “pray much and make sacrifices for sinners, for many souls go to hell because there is no one to make sacrifices for them.” As to the kinds of sacrifices Our Lady was asking, she revealed to Sr. Lucia on one occasion: “The good Lord is allowing Himself to be appeased . . . but He Himself complains most bitterly and sorrowfully about the small number of souls in His grace who are willing to renounce whatever the observance of His laws requires of them…
…and yet the ‘full communion’ ‘Bishop’s discretion’ crowd would rather cling to that – some in good will as they base their obedience on the love of Christ’s words that He will never abandon the Church – while intentional scandal is added to outright persecution. Hence an openly ‘active’ homosexual priest sent to hamstring those who wish to honor the Lord.
I pray the hierarchy and countless Anonymous posters would pay more attention to St. Paul when he discusses eating meat sacrificed to idols. Yes, Paul had the capacity, thanks to the tremendous graces he has received, to eat it freely as he follows God and does not eat for the reason of giving honor to Idols. But he would specifically DENY HIMSELF this small pittance of liberty (out of true charity and love for that which Christ shed His blood) so that the ‘little ones’ are not scandalized and misled.
Today’s crowd opts for liberty first. Those scandalized are not regarded as ‘little ones’ to be tended and loved and sacrificed for. No. They are derided as having no faith, being schismatic, not loving God and all manner of uncharitable thing.
to Catherine cont:
That said, they should also pay further attention to St. Paul and not brag over their supposed ‘full communion.’ For it is GRACE that gives Faith, not personal prowess or position or intellect. GRACE. A free gift of God. So saying, those who have the grace to see, but opt out of duty to keep their little flock from scandal so as to build them up, should be treated with understanding. It is a trial. For we the faithful did not create the scandals, but rather followed that which we’ve been taught by example or omission.
That is why Anonymous’s petty, “the schismatic who has left the Church is worse than someone in full communion who hasn’t left (yet)” is such a call for prayer. He/she doesn’t seem to understand that our time here isn’t a finger-pointing exercise in which we strive to come out on top or be right. Rather it is the time given us to save souls – our own and as many as possible before we face Our Lord who has every right to demand an accounting. Not of how right we were – but of the fruit of the GRACE that He freely gave us.
To Catherine cont:
St. Paul also warns the Gentile Christians of bragging about how they ‘have the Faith’ when compared to the Jews (the original chosen people.) The gist I get from his message is ‘Don’t brag about what YOU have because it was given to you. It has nothing whatever to really do with YOU goodnesss for it was/is a gift. As to those who came before you, if you marvel at how God grafted the wild olive branch onto the cultured olive ‘tree’, think about how easy it would be for Him to graft back the cultured branch onto the cultured tree.
So saying, how much easier would it be to put those ‘Traditional Catholics’ back into full communion if, as the Pope rightfully communicates, nothing in the Church or Her true teaching has changed.
The only seeming shift of ‘openness’ was an attempt to graft in the wild branch. And I cannot think of any better way to describe that which grew out of Vatican II where all manner of ‘what the heck’ was given vent to ‘grow’. But time will tell as the wild branch, which still pushes for all manner of novelty, will have to be pruned back. The fruits are looking pretty bad.
Christ conquers. Christ reigns. Christ orders.
Arise O Lord and let Thy enemies be scattered. Let them that hate Thee flee before Thy Face.
Neither side here sees the other as little ones to be tended and cared for, both insist upon their way and point the other to the highway.
The liturgical anger in the Church is disheartening. One side counts the genuflections, the other refuses to allow them.
Nobody is counting genuflections, Brian S. For while it is charity to welcome homosexuals who are fighting temptation or seeking to fight it, it is not charity to allow those who advocate for homosexual sins a free pass to do so. For that scandalizes everyone.
Constantly misconstruing traditionalists as those who ‘hate’ and/or ‘count genuflections’ is a gross oversimplification. THAT is what polarizes.
Brian S that is a misrepresentation of the reality that we face today. Oh how I am tempted to nag you about how wrong you are but what for, you will just ignore.
“Neither side here sees the other as little ones to be tended and cared for, both insist upon their way and point the other to the highway. ” again on that account, you are so wrong…..I see the care from the ones who have a zeal to honor God. But you neglect that evil does exist, it does not know that it needs to be cared for nor does it want to be cared for because it would mean to them that they caved in…for it is their pride and immoral sins that drives them to this madness.
The devil’s work does not need to be cared for.
Douay-Rheims Bible Matthew 16:23
“Who turning, said to Peter: Go behind me, Satan, thou art a scandal unto me: because thou savourest not the things that are of God, but the things that are of men.”
or another translation in case some do not understand:
“Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.” Matthew 16:23
Brian S. writes, “Neither side here sees the other as little ones to be tended and cared for, both insist upon their *way* and point the other to the highway.” = The sorely lacking standard of the day reply of those coddling sin. This is not about human *ways* points or sides, this is about Christ’s Revealed Truths that many choose to ignore. That is their free will choice but it is not a right to infer, call or introduce perversion as a “fellow norm” on a faithful Catholic website.
Brian S. Your back seat cynicism is not geared for defending the fullness of truth, but there is always Hope. For some reason known only to you and God alone, you prefer to still coddle sin instead of upholding Revealed Truths. Mark F. was right. You can tell homosexual activists that everyone is welcome because the Catholic Church is the *refuge of “all” sinners* but sadly, there will be those whose weakness and fallen nature will only seek the refuge of placating their mortal sins as needing the acceptance. Brian S, You have simply chosen to take the more comfy broader road on CCD which is enabling and coddling sin and Christ already taught us where that broad road leads. You revealed much when you claim that you think that it is human *ways* or points that solve these issues.
Don’t be silly, Ann – genuflections are very much counted – formally even in the Church reviews of this very journal. Check some back issues for “Roamin’ Catholic”, if you’re new here.
You might ask yourself if you note the behavior of priests passing before the tabernacle, but I hardly see how who attaches seriousness to liturgical forms could not.
Ann, it is personally offensive that you introduced the word “hate”, using quotation marks to indicate that I had done so. Of course, I did not use the word at all. As for offenses you cite against those who seek to attend Latin Mass, I clearly alluded to them. Indeed, it was in agreement with your post that I responded.
Abeca – The “little ones” to be cared for are not the “devil’s work”. That dualistic notion is an old and pervasive heresay.
Catherine – As for “comfy broad ways” or “coddling sin”, I have characterized homosexual relations as sinful, and here have specifically argued against the deteriorating standard of the community and the law used to limit their harm. These comments have gone totally unremarked by the three of you.
Frankly, all three of you act as if immoral behavior is something that cannot be dealt with in practical ways. You reject the suggestion that it can in favor of accusing me of accomodation. However, sensible people, including Popes, have dealt with all of these oh-so-ordinary and oh-so-common sins in practical ways throughout human history. My suggestions to evaluate those methods is hardly heretical!
Brian S. The notion of ‘not counting genuflections’ is that not all who proscribe to Traditional practice are doing so because they are focused on counting genuflections. That saying, genuflecting is a sign of reverence to acknowledge Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. So you want priests and faithful to make that acknowledgement as it is a reminder to the individual and the people around. And will not hurt anybody – counting them per se and getting anal about it is not what I’m advocating despite your references.
As to the word ‘hate’ I’m sorry if I offended you. That was not my intention. I must be getting caught up myself by the constant insistence that not approving of immoral behavior equals hate – not of the behavior, but of the individual. I’m glad you understand I do not hold that position. Thank you for listening.
I also do not believe that turning to tradition will be an automatic cure-all for immoral behavior. It never has been. But there does need to be a consistent message about what is moral and what is not. Otherwise a person can speed down the road in their Porsche, putting themselves and others at risk while falling back on the nobody-told-me and there-was-no-posted-speed-limit.
Thanks for getting back.
Little ones? Brian S I get it…..the reason you don’t understand well it is because of your liberal views on what Catholicism is and that is why you are in error.
You mix politics with religion. You have them in the mix and your views are more secular than they are holy.
I doubt that we can dialogue more honestly here, I know I can but you can’t for now. It is because you have rigid views that are closer to socialistic rather than your faithfulness to Christ, I don’t think you know how to separate the two in order to see right and what is wrong. Your complete avoidance to the real concerns of raw salvation, of flesh and spirituality are somewhat twisted due to bad will.
Ann Malley writes, “Those scandalized are not regarded as ‘little ones’ to be tended and loved and sacrificed for. No. They are derided as having no faith, being schismatic, not loving God and all manner of uncharitable thing.”
Ann Malley….God bless you!
I completely understand what you are conveying. I am reflecting on the slathering amounts of gushing charity shown to the chillingly callous pro-abortion advocates while dining together at the Al Smith dinner. A jovial laughing photo op is seen as a badge of great honor. St. John the Baptist was not laughing and dining because he was imprisoned when he reproved Herod Antipas for divorcing his wife (Phasaelis) and unlawfully taking Herodias, the wife of his brother. St. John the Baptist could have said, ‘let’s have ongoing dialogue about divorce at a fundraiser dinner but instead he chose imprisonment over the compromise of laughing and dining with Herod Antipas, Herodias and Salome. This clarity came in the absolute refusal to compromise the Truth which led to his own beheading, yet how many today are blinded to the fact that this may one day be our own fate because our religious freedoms are being removed too. The supporters of ambiguity come out of the silent woodwork to yell, “Be quiet about that Al Smith dinner, after all Jesus dined with the sinners and lepers ” but lo and behold Ann, see how they treat their own brothers and sisters in Christ and this is where the inconsistency shows it’s ugliest truth.
Thanks, Catherine. It would seem Anonymous has taken to posting exorcism/liberation prayers after my posts. God bless :)
You should not impute guilt to someone who has done nothing wrong. The Church has Her Teachings and they are from God. No one should point to others who sin to justify their own sins, saying “what they do is worse”. That is moral relativity and it is evil. There is always the temptation when someone calls out a sin that is something that you favor, that you will accuse them of committing another sin to negate their admonishment. Or try to justify the sin in some way. You are only fooling yourself. You should not stray from any of the teachings of the Church. If you don’t know them, learn them. And don’t lead others astray. If you choose to remain in your sin, that is an option for you but don’t try to get other people to approve of it or say it is not a sin. Do not whitewash it. You may not go to hell for your sin if you repent before death. But the person that you lead astray may not ever repent because you told them something evil is something good.