The following comes from a Mar. 27 posting by Carol Hogan on the website of the California Catholic Bishops.
This year, the California Legislature has presented us with a rare opportunity—two bills we can support based on the whole of Catholic social teaching. They are SB 899 and AB 1579. But first, some background.
As Catholics, our Church teaches us to respect the sanctity of human life, to uphold the imperative of family, to honor the dignity of work, to understand God’s special love for the poor and to seek justice in our dealings with each other. Those “ideas” are found in Catholic social teaching—the distillation of divine revelation, age-old human wisdom and common sense—and if understood and followed, a framework for human thriving.
However, too often, we Catholics tend to focus on one aspect of the teaching over and against another aspect. Catholic social teaching is of a piece and can only be a reliable guide if taken as seamless. Respecting human life ought to occur throughout the trajectory of that life—from conception to natural death. Families must be seedbeds tended to nourish and guide the new generation. We need to remember the dignity of work and that those who are poor must be loved and brought along if able or carried if not. And overlaying it all, our human interactions must reflect justice—which can bring about peace.
The current public policy which seeks to alleviate poverty in our state is CalWORKs, an assistance program that gives cash aid and services to eligible needy California families. Among those services are CalFresh (food assistance), Medi-Cal (medical insurance), Welfare-to Work (job training) and Child Care. However, due to the CalWORKs “maximum family grant” cap (MFG), the amount of cash assistance will not go up to include a child born into the family if any member of the family received cash aid for the 10 months in a row before the child’s birth.
The two bills mentioned above would amend CalWORKs in the following way:
- SB 899, authored by Senator Holly Mitchell (D-Los Angeles) would remove the MFG on the CalWORKs cash assistance received by eligible families, thereby relieving the untenable position of pregnant women in those families: the choice to further impoverish her children or abort her unborn baby.
- AB 1579, authored by Assemblyman Mark Stone (D-Scotts Valley), would provide CalWORKs cash assistance to a woman whose income is below the poverty level upon confirmation of her pregnancy—an acknowledgment of her needs and the humanity of her unborn child.
Upon examination, it is clear that these proposed bills actually incorporate all the major pillars of Catholic social teaching: reverence for life, the dignity of work, the imperative of family, the preferential option for the poor and justice in our dealings with others. In today’s partisan Legislature, it is extremely rare to find a bill that can be supported by both those who are passionately pro-life and pro-family as well as by those who advocate fervently for social justice.
As engaged and thoughtful Catholics, we ought to take the opportunity to publicly support these proposed laws.
To read the original posting, click here.
Sounds sensible to me. What’s the problem?
Maximum Family Grants were obviously dreamed up by eugenicists eager to discourage the lower classes from breeding, and treating a pregnant woman as a “woman and a child” is exactly how it should be done.
And yeah, we will get more children on welfare out of it. The alternative is to join the eugencisists or to treat an unborn baby as if it isn’t a child. Not a tough call….
The “Seamless Garment Theory” perpetrated by now deceased Cardinal Joseph Bernardin is heretical and schismatic in that it was started by this Chicago Cardinal to support pro-abortion candidates. He tried to blur issues.
All sins are not equal.
Some sins are not negotiable.
These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and must never be promoted by the law. Intrinsically evil actions are those that fundamentally conflict with the moral law and can never be deliberately performed under any circumstances.
It is a serious sin to deliberately endorse or promote any of these actions, and no politician who really wants to advance the common good will support any action contrary to the non-negotiable principles involved in these issues.
The five non-negotiable sins are: Abortion, Euthanasia, Embryonic Stem Cell Research, Human Cloning, and Homosexual Marriage.
https://www.politicalresponsibility.com/voterguide.htm
Any time anyone mentions “SEAMLESS” beware.
https://www.sobran.com/columns/2005/050816.shtml
The Democratic Party supports abortion and sodomy marriage in its National Platform.
Sodomy marriage? What in blazes is that? I can’t find any reference to “sodomy marriage” in any DNC document on the internets.
Precisely why we have thesaurus’, Fellow.
Redefined, counterfeit, unnatural, disordered unions might be a better description for YFC.
Sodomy marriage is homosexual marriage.
What do you think people do when they are married – just look at each other ?
BRAVO Andy! Good comments! These people always try to desensitize the reality of the sins. They are the weeds growing and spreading what they can to change morality to meet up to their standards. Its RELATIVISM! ITS SINFUL and wrong! It is sending people to more confusion and many more souls lost due to secularism!
So, let me understand you, if two women get married, are they in a sodomy marriage?
YFC yes…and yes and yes…..and yes
Lol, did you dream this list up or did Jesus speak about homosexual marriage
Jesus spoke about MARRIAGE. There was no such thing as “homosexual marriage,” so He couldn’t anymore speak of that than He could speak about airplanes.
Relative poverty and absolute poverty are different. Poverty in the United States is relative rather than absolute. Although the bills at hand may well incorporate certain pillars of Catholic Social Teaching, there is at least one pillar which they do not incorporate: subsidiarity.
So we should only support charity if given by individuals? And at what point is the organization too big?
Surely, if private giving is insufficient to support people, then subsidiarity would permit a larger organization, like the state government, to step in.
Blessed John Paul II writes: “Malfunctions and defects in the social assistance state [or welfare state] are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the state. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: A community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good. By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the social assistance state leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending. In fact, it would appear that needs are best understood and satisfied by people who are closest to them and who act as neighbors to those in need” (Centesimus Annus, #48).
Well, what do you suppose “support it in case of need” means, Don?
This means, I suppose, that if the exception occurred and the community of a lower order could not fulfill all of its functions without external aid, then the community of a higher order should procure the necessary aid, but in an auxiliary capacity (hence the emphases on “support” and “help to coordinate”).
Don, you clearly overstate PPII’s case. Nowhere does he say that when the lower subordinate agencies fail to act, that the higher agencies should refrain from acting. If communities, and local governments, and state governments fail to act maybe federal government are morally OBLIGATED to step in. PPII never addressed this issue.
“Clearly” to whom? What you have termed “fail to act” is almost always a case of the community of a higher order “depriving the latter (the community of a lower order) of its functions.” Yes, there are exceptional cases like desegregation, and maybe JPII is silent on this, but Centesimus Annus, #48, in fact, subordinates communities of a higher order to those of a lower.
it’s pretty clear to me. you’d rather allow the poor to remain poor, and blame those who try to help, rather than stand up to the challenge of being a poor church for the poor. fancy schmancy words like subsidiarity can not hide the cruelty of abandonment by society and “catholics”.
What about paying down the State DEBT (and local government debts) ?
CA State is now $419, 399 ,700, 889.00 in debt.
Without COMMUTATIVE JUSTICE no other form of justice is possible.
CCC: ” 2411 Contracts are subject to commutative justice which regulates exchanges between persons and between institutions in accordance with a strict respect for their rights.
Commutative justice obliges strictly;
it requires safeguarding property rights, PAYING DEBTS, and fulfilling obligations freely contracted.
Without commutative justice, no other form of justice is possible.
One distinguishes commutative justice from legal justice which concerns what the citizen owes in fairness to the community,
and from distributive justice which regulates what the community owes its citizens in proportion to their contributions and needs.”
What do CA Bishops say about this? Why are they running to the government all the time?
What about Church teaching on SUBSIDIARITY – CCC # 1883, 1885, 1894, 2209 ?
And what about the law passed by Pope Benedict whereby the Church must teach the Gospel to ALL those being helped and not merely be another social services agency?
And not doing business with those who violate Church teaching ?
” APOSTOLIC LETTER ISSUED ‘MOTU PROPRIO’ OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF BENEDICT XVI – ON THE SERVICE OF CHARITY”
https://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20121111_caritas_en.html
HAVING debt and paying timely payments on that debt IS PAYING debts, and no one’s rights are being denied because of state or federal debt. Where one goes awry of the commutative justice principles of CCC is by NOT paying the debts one has, or by ripping people off. Before accusing people of sin, it is important to understand what that sin actually means, which you don’t seem to understand. I hope this brings some clarity to you and anyone else who reads your post. And I reread all the paragraphs from CCC that you cite, and it is pretty clear that there is no violation of subsidiarity, in spite of your claims. All subsidiarity means is that you must take care that smaller socializing elements of society (family, communities, states, national governments) do not have their responsibilities usurped by elements higher up in the chain. It is hardly true that giving aid to families in need usurps their right and obligation to be financially self sufficient when they are able to do so. Your misuse of these principles to justify allowing the poor to languish seems deliberately aimed at turning a blind eye to their plight.
Not paying debts freely contracted is ripping people off.
Our entire economy is now being based upon printing more paper – which if continued will cause the collapse of our system.
State and Federal governments can steal by taking one person’s money and giving it to others not for the common good, but to foster generations of dependent persons. (- And do not say this does not happen.)
Obama (even though against the Law) no longer requires people on welfare to look for work, so that his unemployment numbers won’t be so high.
No one is allowing poor to languish in the USA. There are many many government programs that already exist at State and Federal levels. You seem to forget this, YFC.
Under Obama, those on welfare get fancy cell phones and monthly texting bills paid (the type of phones and bills, I as a taxpayer can not afford).
Many of those on welfare have given by our tax dollars – big screen TVs, computers, expensive shoes and designer clothing, gold jewelry, and fancy cars. (I tried to give away two color 15″ TVs that were not flat screen and no one wanted them.)
And I am trying to give away a computer with a Windows XP operating system, and charities don’t seem to want that either – because no one wants them anymore.
Governments pay your bills. Stop creating the good life off of our tax dollars.
Assistance to those truly in need is good. Assistance to the lazy is evil.
Please provide any evidence whatsoever that “your tax dollars” are buying “fancy” cell phones and big screen TV’s? Please provide evidence that Obama no longer requires people on “welfare” to look for work? Where do you even get this stuff, Fox “news”??
Your tax dollars are buying “fancy” drones that are terrorizing civilians in far away lands. Your tax dollars are paying off the debt incurred by George Bush’s illegal war against Iraq. Your tax dollars are paying for roads and bridges that you use every day. Your tax dollars are making sure that your food supply is safe, and that energy companies can’t burn coal all day long while we choke on the smoke. Your tax dollars are financing an elaborate intel system that snoops on every single one of your texts, emails, and phone calls.
YFC, you clearly demonstrate how our Federal government has gotten massive and out of control! And you have only listed a statistically insignificant fraction of what our Federal government of today has spread its tentacles into.
“Government that is big enough to give everything you need and want is also strong enough to take it away.”
– Thomas Jefferson
Give me freedom not Utopia! (those are my words) :)
Who is not paying debts freely contracted? They get their debts foreclosed and the property reclaimed. It’s called the forclosure crisis!
The “freely contracted” part is interested, though, isn’t it. If you couch the contract in so much legalese that the person entering into the contract doesn’t understand, is he or she truly “free”?
However, folks here are trying to make the claim that indebtedness by government is somehow a violation of Catholic teaching. It is clearly not. So long as California continues to pay on its debt obligations, it is not violating Church teaching.
And another point, not directed at you, but at those who rail against California’s indebtedness: We have a balanced budget amendment, yet VOTERS continue to approve debt obligations to finance all kinds of projects and initiatives. I take no overall position about them myself, but to continue to pound on politicians for debt obligations that voters signed off on seems a bit misguided, to me.
YFC – Here is info on the Obama cell phone program.
(I can not afford the phone and services provided to ALL those on government assistance.)
It was supposedly set in place for emergencies, but their regular and cheaper and existing phone service took care of that – so this newer technology was not needed for phone service.
‘LINK UP’ assists with installation so cell phones will work. And ‘LIFELINE’ provides discounts on basic monthly service at a primary residence for qualified telephone customers.
The government uses to the taxes we all pay on our phone bills to assist in paying for this.
Next
The best thing Federal and State Government can do for people is to help create PRIVATE SECTOR employment, by not over regulating and over taxing small business,
and by making government jobs fewer – so taxpayers do not need to pay so many salaries, benefits and retirement packages.
This is the type of assistance we need to give people.
See: “Second Letter of Paul to the Thessalonians”
2 Thess 3:6-15.
CCC: ” 2288 Life and physical health are precious gifts entrusted to us by God. We must take reasonable care of them, taking into account the needs of others and the common good.
Concern for the health of its citizens requires that society help in the attainment of living-conditions that allow them to grow and reach maturity: food and clothing, housing, health care, basic education, employment, and social assistance.”
All have already been taken care of in the USA for MANY MANY YEARS – except PRIVATE SECTOR employment which is dwindling due to government interference.
matt, Who is not paying off debts???
My dear fellow, are you a Democrat by any chance?
YFC per your request for info –
FEDERAL NATIONAL DEBT as of today – $ 17, 574, 358, 165, 943. 00
and rising each minute due to spending and interest.
The debt was $10.626 TRILLION when George Bush left office;
not the current $ 17. 574 TRILLION under Obama spending.
(And Bush had 9/11 in New York and Washington DC to deal with,
as well as Hurricane Katrina which destroyed many areas of New Orleans.)
The STATE of CA Debt as of today is: $419, 412, 360. 872. 00.
($419.412 BILLION).
Many local governments are seriously in debt as well.
It is immoral to expect the taxpayers of tomorrow to pay OUR debts contracted now. In fact we are stealing from them.
As of 2012 –
One third of the debt is held in the U.S. Treasury — borrowed from the “surpluses” in the trusts of Social Security, unemployment, disability, federal employees, hospital insurance and more (source: The World Fact Book).
The Federal Reserve holds $2.6 trillion of our treasuries.
As of June 2012, China was the largest foreign holder of U.S. treasuries, with $1.16 trillion (of our “debt”), while Japan held $1.1 trillion in U.S. treasuries (source: Treasury.gov).
It’s one big shell game that is subject to collapse.
Where are the Bishops on paying our DEBTS ? We are stealing from future taxpayers.
The main reason why there are so many horrible moral problems in the United States (and Canada) is because the Catholic hierarchy was born Catholic, but baptized democrat! Up until John F. Kennedy became president, the Democrat party held Catholic values. Kennedy said he would not let his Catholic religion influence his presidential judgement, and that was the end of the relationship. But the bishops and most Catholics continued to vote the party of death (except for when Reagan ran against Jimmy Carter). Clinton, and Obama won with the Catholic vote, with basically NO criticism from the Catholic Church. Since then, America has fallen into a sewer of filth and depravity thanks to the USCCB .
I fear our Bishops live and think in an ivory tower, the thoughts that are attended to them seem to have been constructed by Madison Ave. ad-men
And then, we got President Linden Johnson, who signed into law, 50 years ago this week, the Civil Rights Acts. I’m sure you regret that day.
The headline to this article is disingenuous. Look at the Bill, not who sponsors it. The point is that the Bill supports the teachings of the Catholic Church, even though proposed by a Democrat. The totality of the comments so far are anti-Catholic by people who use religion to promote their political agenda. To deny help to poor people is against the teachings of the church. Our Pope says that we should be a poor church for poor people. The argument of relativity is so contrary to common sense that it beguiles the mind. The fact that a poor person in this country might be less poor than those in another country is not the issue. If a person working full time cannot pay the rent and buy food and put the kids through school, it is against the teachings of the church to deny them aid or work for laws that would deny them aid to help them get back on their feet. Catholicism is not about rules and regulations, it is about serving the poor, fighting for life and ensuring a fair culture for our nation. If one has a close relationship with Christ, they cannot fail to help the poor, fight for justice and equality and provide hope for people. Because God saved us through his Cross and Resurrection, we must help the poor and work for justice.
Your argument implies there is only one way to do that. Our parish operates programs to assist the poor: a food pantry, rent and utilities assistance, etc. If every parish was taking care of its local poor, there would be much less need for government assistance. The slur that those who want to help from the bottom up are somehow greedy and oppose social justice is simply rash judgment.
Bob One,,, the Church has only two jobs salvation of souls and creation of saints….what you want is welfare without end
I don’t think Bob One was implying that.
Bob One, what country to you live in?
Federal and State assistance is available for:
basic housing; food (including food stamps that allow for the purchase of junk food and alcohol); health care (Medicaid): free public schools from pre-school through high school; etc.
Actually, you can’t buy alcohol with food stamps (thank God). But you are right you can buy lots of junk food. The problem here (as I see it) is that government subsidizes the production of cheap empty calories (corn mostly), which produces cheap foods that the poor (whether on food stamps or not) are more incentivized to buy. Corn chips. Corn syrups. Corn fuel (which they call cellulosic ethanol). [And trust me, one of my fond memories was getting corn picked that day and roasting it on the grill until it was sweet as candy. It is still a treat when I get to do that, and I love sharing that treat with folks from our western (non corn growing) states who are amazed at how delicious and simple that it is!]
If I were “the boss” I would subsidize good sustainable protein sources and products that truly make foods delicious while adding nutritional value. When is the last time you saw folks on food stamps able to buy those wonderful tufts of basil that are coming into season?? Why isn’t basil 25 cents a tuft instead of $2.50 or twice even that!? The answer, my friends, lies in how we allocate farm subsidies.
https://business.time.com/2013/11/01/5-surprising-things-you-can-buy-with-food-stamps/
The Catholic Conference of Bishops in California supports about any bill that uses taxpayer money to support their version of social teaching. It’s calling democracy when the government takes your money and gives it to others and it calls your reluctance to fund socialism, mean-spirited.
It’s not your money or my money. It is a gift from God that should be returned in proportion to the blessings he gives us. If God has given us the opportunity to be successful, we should give some back to help others be successful, etc. A nation that does not provide for its downtrodden cannot not call itself civilized. A nation that does not provide access to good health care to everyone, regardless of income, cannot call itself civilized or Christian. If the Bishops were teaching the faith as they should, we would not be having this conversation.
A nation that slaughters is unborn is not civilized, we have spent near $7 Trillion on welfare since the great society started, how much is enough Bob One. Please do not tell we don’t provide for the downtrodden, since the election of the Pharoh Obama the welfare rolls have increased and so has poverty.
Bob One wants the State to be the grand arbitrator for the poor and implementation of social justice. Liberal foolishness.
Look on the internet for assistance programs both Federal and State.
Those who want people to be dependent upon the government seem to forget about these.
Basic shelter, food, clothing, health care (Medicaid), and cell phones are all provided. And have been for many years.
A very insightful post, Bob One. Too bad that, as usual, folks dismiss your comments and convert it into a way to promote their own slice of Catholic life and morality. So, feeling that I’m preaching to the choir when i ask you, What good is it to promote unborn life if you ignore its needs once it is born? Lives treasured for what they are, are not treated as viciously as those who often post here on CCD. If, once you are born, Catholics treat those unaborted fetuses who happen to be poor (dependent upon the state, they say), gay (queer, sodomite homosexual sexualists), Democrats (culture of death), judges (Go to hell, some here say), how can they truly claim to be pro life??
YFC, for most of America’s history, we promoted unborn life by having laws on the books which made contraception and abortion illegal. (since Catholics were in the minority in early American History, these were not Catholic laws) Catholics, Protestants, and others of good will, provided education, healthcare, orphanages, food to their neighbors in crisis, etc. etc. Since our government took over the task of providing welfare and legalizing contraception and abortion, more children than ever now find themselves born to single mothers and grow up without their dads. Many more do not reach adulthood with their once married parents remaining together. This is the real poverty in our Nation.
Continue to “promote” your vision of Utopian life and morality if you must. That is your 1st amendment right to do so. It is also my 1st amendment right to “promote” a Catholic vision of life and morality.
Promote – To urge the adoption of; advocate.
The Califrona Catholic Bishops are strategic thinkers who are trying to promote the commonwealth when it is congruent with Catholic teaching. Hence they support legislation proposed by the Republicans when it is appropriate to do so, and by the Democrats when appropriate as well. The bishops are not “party men” but apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ!
Bob, I only wish you were right.
Please explain why all CA Bishops don’t refuse to give Holy Communion to Catholic Democrats (and Catholic Republicans) who support abortion and sodomy marriage (in accord with Code of Canon Law 915).
Why don’t they say something about the “National Democratic Platform” that supports abortion and same-sex marriage ?
And why don’t most CA Bishops publically take positions against Catholic politicians who participate in the public mortal sin of SCANDAL ? (as defined in the CCC.)
Any why do many of them live in extravagant homes? Which violate teachings in the Bible?
Many Bishops are Party men.
California Bishops AGAIN support Democrats? I didn’t realize that they had ever stopped! :(
How about everyone minding their own business, however, assistance to the less fortunate ia a GOSPEL imperative! The problem is that most of you folks are only interested in your own political agenda, what the hell, ” the poor you will always have with you”!
Note following: the “LAITY”,
NOT “BISHOPS”; not “PRIESTS”.
CCC: “898 By reason of their special vocation it belongs to the laity to seek the kingdom of God by engaging in temporal affairs and directing them according to God’s will. . . .
It pertains to them in a special way so to illuminate and order all temporal things with which they are closely associated that these may always be effected and grow according to Christ and maybe to the glory of the Creator and Redeemer. ”
Bishops need to do the job of Bishops.
Involvement in Politics is temporal.
Laity likewise need to do their job.
The devil is in the details. Bishops should stick to general principles. No wonder the government considers the bishops more political than religious and wants to treat them as such!
Forced redistribution of income is NOT charity. It’s theft. Not to mention that California is going bankrupt and doesn’t even have enough stolen money to continue this. As a pro-life mom who has welcomed many young pregnant women into our home, I am completely in favor of assisting, but what else does this do? Is there anything to encourage Dad to be in the home? Is there any incentive to get out of the hole? Liberal bishops have distorted Church social teaching into Democratese. In view of the progress the Democrats are making destroying the Church, they are strange bedfellows.
No one will be starving. Women that get pregnant and or have other children also get WIC. That is food for Women, infant and children. When it started it was Women and infant care. It has been expanded to include the rest of the children in the household. Stop with all the bills. Bill for this and for that. How about some of these people learning a skill and a limit on welfare. Just so we don’t have to give them help for the rest of their lives. We will both feel better about our selves. I need money for my own family too!
The majority of women on WIC and many other government programs are single mothers. These women do need help, but not always as seen by the government. While some are married women, and some divorced, many have never been married and have children outside of any marriage. Many have multiple children with different fathers. What we have in this country is a moral problem. There is no stigma of any kind attached to having children outside of marriage. That goes for the men as well as the women, in fact some men father multiple children with no intent to support them or to be present in their lives; thus the cycle begins again. If we condone promiscuity as the norm what do we expect? The poor children are caught in a cycle of immorality and poverty and often abuse. I would love to be able to tell my patients both men and women who behave in this manner (and are almost all on tax payer funded medical “insurance”) exactly what I think of their decisions when they come into my office (seeking more services and equipment supplied by the tax payer), but I would be expelled from the medical profession! It is interesting to note that most of them also have expensive cell phones and ipads that they use without a qualm during appointments; just one more thing I have to tell them that is not appropriate. They truly seem clueless!
What is considered the poverty level income for a family of four in 2014? It is $22,800. Divide $22,800 by 2080(full time employment) and that comes to $10.96 per hour. At that wage, a parent cannot be the only bread winner for the family. It takes a lot of help. At the subsidiarity level, that requires help from the state and federal government. That requires that the rest of us contribute a bit each year in taxes, which is not confiscation of wealth by the way. Then, it requires each parish to have programs to help the poor. Then, it requires enormous effort to get the legislatures at state and federal levels to pass laws that don’t continue the wage gap between men and women, poor and rich, etc. By the way, the teachings of the Bible, which I admit that I don’t follow fully, is that we should give 10% of our income to the church (“first fruits”) and with what is left we should pay for housing, food, health insurance, education, etc. The average Catholic family donates !% of income to the church. The average Protestant donates 2%. Think of what could be done if all Catholics decided to contribute 2% to the church. It would amount to billions of dollars that would allow us to take care of our fellow human beings. Does anyone think that is a bad idea?
2%. You need to tithe-10%.
The Church does not require this. It is from the Old Testament.
You will be blessed 100 fold.
Federal Government is not subsidiarity.
It starts with helping your neighbors by yourself, then through any local organizations you belong to, then local city or county government, and then the State – LAST. When the government is involved, you have to play by their secular rules, and dependence upon the government should only be a last resort not a way of life.
I agree that each of us should donate a little more to local Catholic Charities such as St. Vincent de Paul. Although we are bound to support our Church as a Precept of the Church, it does not help the poor when Diocese, State Bishops’ Conferences, and USCCB bureaucracies all cut into our donation money. I would love for Pope Francis to encourage Bishops to cut back on their bureaucracies which just keep growing and growing.
This used to be the recommended contribution-
5% to the local parish; 2% to the diocese; 3% to other charities (2nd collections, SVDP, etc)
Also, in case this is new to people, the percentage is taken from you gross income-before taxes are taken out.
(We have been told that we live in the only area of the US where the IRS does not audit for charitable contributions that are that high.)
Bob One, You probably don’t realize it but Alms-giving is a powerful antidote to greed!
I myself follow Church teaching on giving 10% of my gross income (amount of income prior to taxes being removed). As such I often live a far simpler lifestyle than those poor who you say need my tax dollars just to survive. This helps me follow the 10th Commandment which forbids coveting. I rarely suffer because of my lack, nor concern myself with how much a gap exists between myself and my supposedly rich neighbor. (At any rate, my “rich (in goods) neighbor” is likely to hold a great amount of debt. I maintain zero debt. Our Father in Heaven is indeed a faithful provider!
So my question to you is this, Why don’t you think of “what could be done” if Catholics strived to followed ALL Church teachings? Might this stem from a POVERTY of faith?
You are an inspiration to the rest of us. As to your question: Yes in all likelihood. But, that may never happen because the majority of Catholics don’t agree on the church’s teachings about anything below the waist.
Bob One, just a reminder there were very few who agreed with Jesus during His public ministry. Just as the His few faithful followers did, I would recommend that you follow Him too! I doubt the Apostles would have carried out the Gospel Message if they concerned themselves with how many Jews or Gentiles would agree with it.
I give 60% of my income. Does that make me better than you? Not by a long stretch. But it might make me more sensitive to seeing how those who deserve my charity are affected by policies that keep them down in the first place. Hence my constant fights on CCD. If only Christians would stand up to their obligation to the poor, and would seek systems to that allow them to rise to their natural state, then — then —- we will be on par with each other.
YFC, for you to be able to give 60% of your INCOME in addition to paying taxes, (federal, state, local, sales tax, etc.) must mean that you make a disproportionately higher income than the average American or at the very least you may have received a very large inheritance. Good for you!
Thank you Tracy, I hope you see it as an inspiration to give more to those in need, and spend less time reviling those who, in fact, serve the Kingdom of God.
Tracy, what is your point? Are you saying that Queers shouldnt make charitable gifts?
Such hypocrisy….people speak of the poor but deep down they have other malice and real reasons for their demise.
YFC, apparently you must think so, since you brought it up. Only an extremely divisive person could have come up with such a bizarre interpretation after reading my April 10, 2014, 12:23 pm post. Good grief. :(
It wasn’t an interpretation, it was a question. If the answer is no, then say so!
YFC, I refuse to fall into your “straw man argument” trap. The point I made in my April 10, 2014, 12:23 pm post is rather clear.
Straw Man Argument – “A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position.
Equality, take the Bishops stipends, homes, holdings, etc. distribute to the less fortunate within a one mile area, leave the Bishops of course with an average life style not denying them joy in their life, and then have them make their pronouncements.
Chuck,
Have you seen some of the “bishops’s” palatial mansions complete with swimming pool(s) and jacuzzi?
Archbishop Khai, whom I was blessed to serve, had a room in the corner of his chancery and he hung his hand washed (by him) laundry over his door every night! The poor and rich people loved him!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
There is a reason I don’t vote anymore. The Bishops don’t care about Church Doctrine, only kissing up to the culture of death politicians.
Don’t punish the rest of God’s people because of actions of some Bishops.
Vote you have a required responsibility to do so.
(If necessary, VOTE for the lessor of the evils or things will continue to get worse.)
CCC: ” 2240 Submission to authority and co-responsibility for the common good make it morally obligatory to:
pay taxes, to exercise the right to vote, and to defend one’s country:
Pay to all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due. …”
John, I would think that your lament would cause you to be the first in line at the polling place!
Yes, defrauding laborers of wages due is one of those sins crying for justice!
This does not happen in the USA. Labor relations laws protect legal workers.
Wage theft exists in the USA. Many times employees do not know their rights.
Almost every home in the USA has a TV. Legal Workers know their rights.
Not quite true. Most people think that LGBT employees cannot be fired for being LGBT. Yet in most states, people have little or no employment protections for being fired because of their sexual orientation. Even gay people overestimate their employment protections!! Legal workers DO NOT know their rights!
I don’t watch TV much so I do not know what you are referring to but wage theft is very common.
I was a victim of it at one time. I had no idea of my rights until another employee called the labor board on my employer.
I know another company-every employee is college educated-who owner told his employees that they would all have to go without pay for a while or he would have to close the business. He told them he would repay them when things were better.
It is very common for people to work off the clock or to have money withheld from their paycheck so that they make less than minimum wage or to be underpaid for overtime work.
Allie is right. In California they have to post bulletins in employee break rooms many of their rights and who to contact etc.
Andy is right, the laws have to be posted in areas where employees meet etc. I use to be a human resources assistant in one of my temporary jobs.
CCC: ” 2411 Contracts are subject to commutative justice which regulates exchanges between persons and between institutions in accordance with a strict respect for their rights.
Commutative justice obliges strictly;
it requires safeguarding property rights, paying debts, and fulfilling obligations freely contracted.
Without commutative justice, no other form of justice is possible.
One distinguishes commutative justice from legal justice which concerns what the citizen owes in fairness to the community,
and from distributive justice which regulates what the community owes its citizens in proportion to their contributions and needs.
……NOTE: ” in proportion to their contributions and needs”,
We have Federal Government subsidized housing, food stamps, Medicaid, Aide to Dependent Children, School lunch programs for those children in need, etc., etc, etc.
The USA does not neglect it’s poor.
“Government that is big enough to give everything you need and want is also strong enough to take it away.” Thomas Jefferson
The Democrat Party is a pro-abortion, left wing hate group!
Is the California Catholic Conference a political action committee for the California State Democratic Party?
This is like working with Nazis because they have good economic policy..
When was bishop Hogan ordained anyway?
Isn’t it amuzing, the picture of Ms. Hogan could be Nancy Pelosi!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
“AB 1579, authored by Assemblyman Mark Stone (D-Scotts Valley), would provide CalWORKs cash assistance to a woman whose income is below the poverty level upon confirmation of her pregnancy—an acknowledgment of her needs and the humanity of her unborn child.”
Hmm… I thought the government already paid people to reproduce. California is already broke. I don’t want to deny people health care, but this sounds like a license for serial pregnancies.
And the Catholic Church castigates Americans ! for not having more kids ! I think they’re too busy paying for other people to have them. But of course Americans are never thanked I don’t think. Where are you Bishops ?
C. Bryant
Dear C. Bryant. Are you also also aware that our own agencies are rallying against those who provide access to birth control? If you don’t want children, then why do you (i presume) want to deny them access to a few sheets of polyurethane?
I think that all good Catholics that voted for Jerry brown and Obama should stop and think of what they will say when the day comes that they stand in front of our good GOD! Will they get the GREEN light or the RED light? The Dems support everything that is immoral. Our Country and Church are being destroyed from within.
If Pope Francis were American he would be a Democrat. As He is Argentinian he is A Peronista – just Google Bergoglio Peronista.
Don’t be so sure of yourself Gratias! Democrat! No way! How dare you speak such assumptions of our Pope! That will never happen! The words If, where and American have already proved you wrong buddy!
Gracias one thing is thinking assumptions but spreading them on the internet, that is a sin!
In his work THE DIVINE COMEDY, Dante put corrupt clergy in one of the deepest pits of Hell. Those bishops and priests who have advocated and promoted abortion and other ungodly acts, by supporting the party of death, are well on their way to their eternal damnation. May God have mercy on them for the terrible scandal they have caused.
I agree Father Karl. Many do not understand the serious consequences these things have on their salvation after this life. Its no joking matter and not to be taken lightly either.
With all due respect Fr. Karl, what you say is not true. If one votes for members of the Democratic Party, they may be voting for the lesser of two evils. The party supports abortions which is horrible. If one votes for Democrats BECAUSE they support abortion, they are doing a bad thing.however, they vote for Democrats because of the totality of their platform because it supports more completely the teachings of the Church, especially in the area of social justice, they are not committing a sin. If they vote for the Republican party that opposes most of the teachings of the church, especially in the area of social justice, well …
The killing of innocents is a matter of social justice. It is the most important social justice issue, along with other crimes ands sins against human life. We do not have a political party in the US which supports the teaching of the Church in the area of social justice. Wanna start one?
You couldn’t win dog catcher with a political party that supports the teachings of the church. For 80+% of the people, including Catholics, abortion is not a sin but a right. Catholics more than any other denomination supports same sex marriage. Birth control? Let’s put it this way; latest data shows that younger couples are having sex at least three times a week. Do you think they would do that if they didn’t use contraceptives – and they are not about to give up the pleasure -and they don’t consider it a sin. The sin is now in not using contraceptives to avoid unwanted children. The party would not go very far.
Bob One, are you talking about Catholic heretics and schismatics?
Catechism of the Catholic Church: “2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.
Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;
apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;
schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him. ”
It would be helpful if you would accurately describe what you are talking about.
We don’t need schismatic or heretical Catholics in office.
We don’t need Catholic politicians with no principles. It would be better that they never get elected. Getting elected is not important when the politician has no morals anyway. The goal must be to get MORAL people elected, not immoral Catholics.
CCC: ” 1887 The inversion of means and ends, which results in giving the value of ultimate end to what is only a means for attaining it,
or in viewing persons as mere means to that end, engenders unjust structures which “make Christian conduct in keeping with the commandments of the divine Law-giver difficult and almost impossible.”
CCC: 1759 “An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention” (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Dec. praec. 6). The end does not justify the means.”
Bob One, if the gruesome reality of abortion does not strike at your “social justice” nerve, then I am truly at a loss for words. Maybe you are one of those “out of sight, out of mind” type of folks. That is, if the talking heads on your TV set do not tell you that abortion is grossly unjust, then it probably isn’t. :(
Justice — Just behavior or treatment. The quality of being fair and reasonable.
“Social Justice Begins in the Womb”!
Bob One writes, “…The sin is now in not using contraceptives to avoid unwanted children.”
No, Bob One, the actual sin is not in what people ‘think’ is sin, but what ‘is’ sin. That is why, despite whether or not a party would win, despite popular opinion, despite whether or not people will follow it, Truth needs to be taught and upheld.
Catholics are called to do as much. But as a group, we don’t. We cave to societal pressures as if Christ and His grace were mere fairy stories when pitted against reality. It’s called a lack of Faith, Bob One. Giving in to sin because – well – we can’t help it and the kids just won’t listen. Well, too bad for them.
And the so called ‘sin’ of not using birth control isn’t the only way that ‘unwanted’ children are born. Lots of folks who get abortions, do so because their birth control failed. So instead of placating ignorance, shouldn’t we root cause the issue and teach the Truth? Really.
Perhaps it is time somebody turned off the radio, television, and all manner of social media engineering and actually looked to the Faith for a guide.
So apparently Joan thinks it is better to elect atheists and people truly out to intentionally destroy the faith than elect Catholics who may view abortion as a sin, yet believe it is not up to the state to enforce that moral teaching. That logic is just lost on me.
Folks seem to forget that the great gift of free will only means something if there is indeed free will. God didn’t “promote sin” by putting the apple tree in the middle of the Garden of Eden, folks. Had God not created both the tree and the free will to choose to eat or not, then we would never have had the “Happy Fault of Adam” that gave for us such a great redeemer. And a tree that was once a source of temptation could never have been the tree upon which was hung our salvation.
Bob One, your comment, “You couldn’t win dog catcher with a political party that supports the teachings of the church”, clearly demonstrates whose kingdom you are fighting for. Read the gospel of Matthew. The kingdom which the “Jews” were fighting for was not the Kingdom Jesus came on earth to establish. They erroneously believed that once they put Jesus Christ to death, this talk of a new Kingdom would quickly fade away! That was almost 2000 years ago!
Oh, by the way, Jesus also predicted that few were those who would actually choose His Kingdom over the earthly kingdom.
YFC, responding to your April 14, 2014, 11:19 am post. You have once again exhibited your ability to use the “straw man argument”. I would ask everyone to first re-read Joan’s April 13, 2014, 7:52 pm comments and then ask yourself if you reach the same conclusion as YFC that it is “apparent” that Joan thinks that it is better to elect atheists AND PEOPLE TRULY out to INTENTIONALLY DESTROY the faith than elect Catholics….”
The logic is lost on you, YFC, because the reality is that many Catholics behave far worse than atheists do in their actual works as a result of a twisted logic. Much like the twisted idea that providing wholesale abortion makes us somehow like God. Oh, unhappy and perverse delusion, YFC.
God is the One who gives us the ability to choose. And when Catholics choose to fund the killing of innocents, our own children, there is nothing but the Devil involved.
Also, YFC, Judas was an Apostle. It’s those who pretend to be your friend but who are in reality your enemy that are the most dangerous. So it goes with false Catholics who hide their ill-intent behind the seemingly friendly face of solidarity. Traitor is the word.
That’s great word-smithing in action, Bob One, to avoid the appearance of sin. But look to the fruits of the so-called Social Justice seamless garment nonsense that has Catholics voting in pro-mosodomy and pro-abortion politicians and laws. Bad fruits. Rotten.
So, we all agree! Now, how do you change the culture that I described? The majority of people in this country do not believe that contraception is wrong – how do you change that culture? The majority of people in this country do not believe that abortion is wrong – how do you change that culture? The majority of people in this country don’t believe divorce is wrong – how do you change that culture? The majority of people in this country don’t believe that same sex marriage is wrong – how do you change that culture? The folks on this site seldom differ on matters of church teachings, but they are a minority within a minority of Catholic orthodoxy. So, how do you change the culture and are we willing to take the twenty years it will require?
Bob One, “…..how do we change that culture?” These are very good questions. First you have to stop listening to those voices that tell us that once our culture has embraced this or that immoral stance, to change it back would be impossible. Why would someone who accepts such a premise ever see the point in working for change anyway? Also, realize that it is in the interest of the Leftist media to plant the impression that all of those “the majority of people in this country don’t believe that…” scenarios which you raised are actually the truth.
Please consider reading the two articles I have linked to below. They should set the record straight, at least with regards to abortion, and provide you with some encouragement. Then PLEASE, PLEASE, abandon the dooms-dayers and join with those of us who are actually WORKING towards renewing our culture!
http://www.lifenews.com/…/npr-poll-59-of-americans-say-having-an-abortion-is- wrong/
http://www.lifenews.com/…/poll-majority-of-americans-young-adults-say-abortion- wrong/
Bob One, I should also add the most important element. Follow Our Lady of Fatima’s request to pray the Rosary Daily and to offer up daily sacrifices for the conversion of poor sinners. Trust me the 20 minutes you spend praying the rosary will effect more change in a soul in need of conversion than watching 20 minutes of TV “news” reports. :)
The way you change the culture, Bob One, is by living the life despite what the world says…. or your kids. If they mock you, so be it. If they fall away, so be it. Live the life. Be faithful. Pray. Support the faithful Catholic schools. Encourage those with large families. Keep one’s nose to the grindstone despite the seeming setbacks and the Faith will grow.
It isn’t easy. It isn’t always visible. It isn’t fun. It hurts. We often seek to change course to save ‘our’ children. That’s human instinct. But at some point, people, everyone must decide. THAT is how you change culture. One firm, lived decision at a time. And with Faith that despite what you see, what the world tells you, that you follow Christ. Take your joy from Him and suffer. But suffer gladly because that is precisely how the Faith is grown instead of running from the Cross which does the opposite.
“seamless garment nonsense”. the same nonsense that makes you reject Vatican II and the liturgy of those in full communion with Rome?
You do me a great honor yet again, Anonymous. Thank you.
As to your polarizing statements, nobody is rejecting Vatican II, but rather the ambiguity inherent within it – the same admitted by Cardinal Kasper. You don’t have to take my word for it as you well know, although it might be better for you to stop trying to pin the reality of ambiguity on others and look to the documents and those faithless churchmen who inserted them. (It is the seamless garment nonsense that has given us abortion on demand and the wholesale push of the homosexual agenda – for it has deluded Catholics into believing they can vote anti-Catholic and still get into Heaven because they are in ‘full communion.’ So perhaps it isn’t nonsense, but just sin. Sorry for the misnomer.)
But we are admonished in the Bible to have our yes mean yes and our no mean no. That said, I pray I’ll always opt to be consistent as Christ is consistent despite the obfuscation of his ministers who it is increasingly apparent seek to appease the masses for fear of losing their places of ‘honor’. Or donations. Whatever it be, its a false idol.
God bless you.
Wow, Ann Malley refers to our Holy Father and to her bishop as money grubbing idolators. Wow, just…wow.
The real wow is your fixation on attempting to parlay my posts into slamming Pope Francis. If you cannot respond coherently to what I say, (to what is reported so often by CCD) it’s okay to resit temptation, YFC, and pass instead of making up hyper-dramatic Wows for the sake of posturing. The feigned shock is a bit overplayed at best, kind of like it would be for me to be fake horror at your lifestyle choices – unless we’re playing to an audience, like overacted Shakespeare.
I die, Horatio and all that :)
Ann, I thought you might be interested in re-reading what YFC posted to me in the comments section of the APRIL 10th, 2014 article, “Most Holy Redeemer speaker provides teaching moment” where he accuses me of attributing something to him that he “didn’t say”.
April 13, 2014 at 7:40 pm; “where did I ever say that? Are you making things up AGAIN?”
April 14, 2014 at 1:01 pm “Again, I am telling you I never said what you are claiming I said. It happens over and over again that I am called to answer for things I never say.”
Murder of the innocent is a million times worse than not supporting social justice.Yes, we must help someone in need if they come to us, or if we see or know about their plight. But, abortion is MURDER, and it always has been. To show how far we Christians have gone down the primrose path, Martin Luther, the radical of the 16th century, said that Birth Control is a sin which cries to God for vengeance. Our social programs are candy coated communism. 40 years ago I saw in a Safeway store people buying booze and cigarettes with food stamps. I thought it was foreign money, so I asked the teller if the notes were Canadian, and she replied, that they were food stamps. Also, a person could buy some canned goods, and then return them, and with the money, buy the tobacco and liquor products. The scam that has been around since the Johnson years has not produced a great society, but an indentured slave society where we give the state the honor and the loyalty we should alone be giving Almighty God.
One mortal sin cannot be a million times worse than another.
UGGG here we go again! This division amongst many of faith is disturbing. A month ago a man told me that it was not an immoral sin to miss Sunday Mass. I had to correct him, he said it was a venial sin??? I was always told it was an immoral sin to miss Mass on Sunday? Was I taught wrong?
Just this past week, we met some Catholic youth who supported abortion. We also spoke to another lady from church who spoke highly of Obama, I had to speak up. Then another Catholic who defended so called gender equality of all kinda in the “gay” sense.
This humanity is in deep trouble! Relativism is well and alive! God have mercy on all of His people and may He rescue us soon from ourselves.
Brian S., Catholic tradition teaches us that just as there are different levels in heaven, so too are there different levels in hell. Per Wikipedia, the term “social justice” only became used explicitly from the 1840s. A Jesuit priest named Luigi Taparelli is typically credited with coining the term, and it spread during the revolutions of 1848.