The following was released by the Boy Scouts of America on April 19.
In February, the Boy Scouts of America embarked on the most comprehensive listening exercise in its history to consider the impact of potential changes to its membership standards policy on the organization and gather perspectives from inside and outside of the Scouting family. This review created an outpouring of feedback from the Scouting family and the American public, from both those who agree with the current policy and those who support a change.
Scouting’s review confirmed that this issue remains among the most complex and challenging issues facing the BSA and society today. Even with the wide range of input, it is extremely difficult to accurately quantify the potential impact of maintaining or changing the current policy. While perspectives and opinions vary significantly, parents, adults in the Scouting community, and teens alike tend to agree that youth should not be denied the benefits of Scouting.
For this reason, the Executive Committee, on behalf of the National Executive Board, wrote a resolution for consideration that would remove the restriction denying membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation alone and would maintain the current membership policy for all adult leaders of the Boy Scouts of America. The proposed resolution also reinforces that Scouting is a youth program, and any sexual conduct, whether heterosexual or homosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting.
The voting members will take action on the resolution during the Boy Scouts of America’s National Annual Meeting next month.
America needs Scouting, and our policies must be based on what is in the best interest of our nation’s children. Throughout this process, we work to stay focused on that which unites us—reaching and serving young people to help them grow into good, strong citizens. Our priority remains to continue accomplishing incredible things for young people and the communities we serve.
To read entire release, click here.
Can hardly wait to see a bevy of new merit badges … with rainbow colors.
Get ready for the next best selling book!
“THE DECLINE AND FALL OF THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA”
It happened to the Roman Empire
It happened to the Nazi Third Reich
It happened to the Communist United Socialist Republic
To permit so few to destroy an oOganization in Unforgiveable.
Brian,
It also happened in England, the Mother Land of Scouting. Lord Baden Powell would resign if he could.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Former 30 plus year Scouter
Hmm. How much is this a change and how much a mere sop to Cerberus? No boy or young adolescent is really “gay”, although some very few may suffer from SSA to a degree. The rules about adult leadership are the key point and that stands. I don’t like it, however, since it seems to suggest further deleterious changes to come.
Tom,
“however, since it seems to suggest further deleterious changes to come.” Now that THEY HAVE THEIR FOOT IN THE DOOR through amoral corporate infiltration of the Executive Committee, watch out!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
This looks like a slippery slope. This may turn out to be a boon for trial lawyers. Just saying…
Give in a little…..pretty they will own you too…
Lions in the cage with the lambs. Just what the sodomites want. After all, though homosexuals are only 2% of the population, they make up 35% of all child sex abusers.
Father James Martin:
‘Most Catholics — including most bishops and archbishops — already know that homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing. Perhaps this is why Pope Benedict XVI himself, en route to the United States for his visit in 2008, responded this way to a question about the abuse crisis: “I do not wish to talk about homosexuality, but about pedophilia, which is a different thing.”‘
AHem….Then explain to the rest of us why the biggest proponents of lowering the age of consent are older gay men???
I haven’t seen anything like this. Links?
Then look for it….
Ones ignorance of a subject is not proof of its nonexistence.
obviously there is no such data or someone would point us to it instead of making bald accusations
Yes, homosexuality and pedophilia can be different, or can be the same.
Never forget that PEDOPHILIA and HOMOSEXUAL ACTS are both Mortal Sins.
Those who are unrepentant with a firm purpose of amendment to sin no more will surely burn in HELL.
Most Catholics including the Clergy have lost sensitivity to sin. That is what it comes down to.
By any chance are you Fr. James Martin, S.J.?
Kenneth M. Fisher
I am not, though I am a fan of his thoughtful and prayerful work.
Groupie or disciple?
Mr Fisher who is Fr James?
Culture editor of the Jesuit magazine, America.
When the fire and brimstone rained down on Sodom and Gomorrah, it incinerated both pedophile and homosexual alike. Their difference is like murder by knife and murder by gun.
Agreed. Fire certainly rained down on the pedophile and the homosexual alike – just as it rained down on the arrogant, the inhospitable, the drunkard, the liar, the envious, the prideful, the religious hypocrite, and all the sinners who were residents of those two cities. (Not to mention the dogs and goats and chickens).
That said – confusing the pedophile with the homosexual is not helpful to the discussion at hand. By the very definition of the two terms, the former are a direct threat to the boys of the Boy Scouts while the latter are not – or at least no more a threat than any other sinner. It would be inadvisable to prevent a person from joining the Boy Scouts on the mere fact that they are a sinner. I think you will find that if we prevent sinners from joining the Boy Scouts or leading a troop, then no one would be a Scout.
One never expects so much pro-homosexual rhetoric to be expressed in a Catholic forum. This is just what the boys at future scout meetings will experience……. the redefinition of sexual conduct and the redefinition of moral standards altogether.
Juergensen, the majority of victims of child sexual abuse are girls and most of the abusers are men, a large percentage of them are family members. One out of 4 women were sexually abused as children. I don’t think it is gay men that are abusing all those young girls.
No PA, gay men are abusing the young boys, you can deny as I am sure you will…cuz in your worldview gays are the eternal victims not the abusers..
Thank you, Mark, for reasonable words in a hostile, unthinking environment.
Of course, sodomite are always intellectually superior, even though they practice perversion
Long live hostility
David, can you explain clearly how you came to think better through sodomy?
Mark from PA, only gays promote that 1 out of 4 women are sexually abused as children. This false fact is used to promote that gays aren’t so bad.
Next please address our responsibility to “AVOID TEMPTATION”.
This is for everyone including homosexuals who are tempted by being alone with children or adults of the same sex.
Mark,
The fact is, homosexuals make up only 2% of the population but 35% of all child sex abuse. Yes, that means 65% of all child sex abuse is committed by heterosexuals. But heterosexuals are 98% of the population.
The point is that when only 2% of the population commits 35% of child sex abuse, that 2% of the population has a disproportionate tendency to child sex abuse. Were homosexuals equally likely to commit child sex abuse as heterosexuals, they would commit only 2% of child sex abuse. But they don’t – they commit 35%.
Juergensen, when I taught Religion classes at my parish I had to take child abuse prevention courses mandated by our diocese. Your comment that homosexuals commit 35% of child abuse is fiction. It is not true. I know that some homosexuals abuse children just as some heterosexuals do, most homosexuals and heterosexuals do NOT abuse children. Many pedophiles are fixated on a certain age group and will abuse both boys and girls in that age group, the victim is just often unfortunate to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Several of the people that I work with worked for child protective services and I know many people that do work for child protective services so I do know something about this. People like Rev. Phelps and others hate gay people and try to fan the flames of hatred against them and sadly find fertile ground in some people but mostly just make people more sympathetic to gay people.
Canisius,
Please make it complete “Long live hostility to SIN”
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Mark from PA,
I have one answer for your twisted statements, and it is NAMBLA!
May God have mercy on your soul and those who support you on this Roman Catholic Website!
Kenneth M. Fisher
You were brainwashed, PA, not instructed.
Mark from PA says: “Your comment that homosexuals commit 35% of child abuse is fiction. It is not true.”
===
It is true:
“The Archives of Sexual Behavior also noted that homosexual pedophiles are significantly overrepresented in child sex offence cases: ‘The best epidemiological evidence indicates that only 2 to 4 percent of men attracted to adults prefer men (ACSF Investigators, 1992; Billy et al.,1993; Fay et al.,1989; Johnson et al.,1992); in contrast, around 25 to 40 percent of men attracted to children prefer boys (Blanchard et al.,1999; Gebhard et al.,1965; Mohr et al.,1964). Thus, the rate of homosexual attraction is 6 to 20 times higher among pedophiles.”
“A study on pedophilia in the Psychiatric Journal of the University of Ottawa reported: ‘According to the literature, findings of a two-to-one ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles have been documented.'”
“The Journal of Sex Research reports a study that included ‘199 offenders against female children and 96 offenders against male children. . . . This would indicate a proportional prevalence of 32 percent of homosexual offenders against children.'”
Homosexuals, many ignore it when we mention NAMBLA. They do not speak out against these great evil groups, why should they? Well at least not often enough. Deep down some unite a tid bit their ideologies or even may consider them.
The deep dark secrets within their disorders are often not publicly expressed…to them it’s best to keep them safe and secure especially while doing their gay activism and watching it expand even further.
So far Mark from PA is the only one on this board who has related personal experience from a social worker. To label gays as pedophiles is akin to labeling Catholics as self-flagelants.
Yes, Mike from NC, Sodom and Gomorrah were cities of men, women, children … and they were all gay, which is why they all were destroyed by God.
Abeca: I detest NAMBLA and the activity they promote. Most gays I know do as well, which is why membership in NAMBLA is a trivial portion of our community, and which is why most gay pride parades do not allow NAMBLA contingents.
Your Fellow Catholic, your post of April 28, 9:39 AM is very important. People need to realize that most gay people detest NAMBLA too and think that these guys are creeps. Most gay people think that our young people need to be protected not only from bullies but also from any kind of sexual exploitation. Look at Matthew Shepherd’s mother who has been active in protecting homeless gay teens and group that have set up scholarship for gay teens that have been rejected by their families.
Mark, you are always trying to spin everything away from the fact that sodomites are after young boys and male teens. Juergensen is correct. You are 100% promoting the sodomite agenda. God will be judging all your actions and what you do to confuse the innocent.
“that sodomites are after young boys and male teens”: Which is why sodomites travel to Bangkok to find undiseased boys, who are brought in from the remote villages as a “fresh and pure” sex supply.
Skai,
Whenever I travelled to Thailand to visit the Archbishop, we came across some of those very sick souls on the planes!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Laurette, I am just stating the fact that most victims of child sexual abuse are females. Also, some male victims are victimized by women. My father told me that one of his teachers in school had a thing for teen boys and she even made a pass at him. Yes, Skai, I have read about Thailand, both boys and girls are abused by “sex tourism”. I read that many Japanese businessmen go to Thailand for this. It is horrific. Sexual abuse of anyone, boy or girl, woman or man is tragic.
PA, you do not know if more sex abuse kids are male or female. This issue also misses the critical point, which is the intact family. When the head of the family is deranged or a woman, then the kids will way more often than otherwise go bananas. The whole solution is a husband and wife family with kids. The title “Father” in the Church has been thrown to the pigs; otherwise, we would not be witnessing these clerical demoniacs.
And that makes Sodomy good how?
Skai, most victims of childhood sexual abuse are girls. This is common knowledge. Your statement “When the head of the family is deranged or a women” is very insulting. Comparing a woman raising a family to a deranged person is a terrible thing to say. Have you raised any daughters? Why do they think of your opinions about this?
This country, this perverse world, has become insatiable in its desire for the unnatural and despicable act of man on man anal sex. This crime against God ,that cries to Heaven for vengeance, is promoted zealously by sports leagues, major corporations, heads of state and sadly heretical “Catholics”. May God have mercy upon us. +JMJ+
Understatement of the century.
Every Catholic with ears to hear and eyes to see should read this enciclinal
QUI PLURIBUS
ON FAITH AND RELIGION
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS IX
NOVEMBER 9, 1846
Its going to send a chill of terror down your spine. Its a prophesy.
Thank you for this.
Good news. Seems like a fair compromise. It will help young scouts develop an identify that incorporates sexuality, but does not overtly focus on it.
What a sad and ridiculous statement.
Any organization for children, is no place to promote sexuality.
What’s sad and ridiculous about it? Sexuality is a part of life . . . but it shouldn’t be life’s main focus.
Sexuality is part of life, correct. It is the sole purview of the parents to decide when that part of lifes education occurs as well as where and with whom.
It is certainly NOT part of a child’s outside the family recreational activities. Especially with those valuea are contrary to Catholic moral teachings.
If you werent a troll, I’d suggest you read the catechism.
peter, the downstream result will be segregation of gay boys. So what will eventually come out of this is entire troops composed only of gay adults and gay boys not to mention lesbians running it all.
Jesus can surely do whatever he wants, but seem to chose not to change gay people. In fact I take the psychologists at face value when they say trying to change gay sexual orientation can do great harm.
Even God can’t change someone who is in a final state of impenitence. He can, however, incinerate Sodom and Gomorrah.
Anonymous,
Right, and Our Lord said, If you love me, follow my psychologists, NOT!
May God have mercy on your sorry soul,
Kenneth M. Fisher
So can you, Anonymous, do whatever you want. Too bad, so sad that what you want to do is not what Jesus wants you to do.
God gave everyone a free will.
Whether we choose to sin or not is up to each of us.
Whether we choose to repent with a firm purpose of sinning no more is up to each of us.
Whether we go to Heaven or burn in Hell is up to each of us – based upon our actions on earth.
Keithp,
THAT IS EXACTLY THEIR GOAL!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
The only change will be that there will be gay scout groups who get money from Scout HQ … because they need it way more than the normal Scouts. Eventually, like in politics, these gays will create a powerhead that seeks to destroy what is descent in people within its sphere of influence.
Now, the question is, are your boys going to be part of the boy scouts or not? I know mine will never set foot into that arena.
JonJ did you know that 40% of homeless youth are gay? Apparently they too were “lovingly excluded” from their birth homes. What model Christian families!
Anonymous, you’re providing more than your usual share of gay portals attempting to suck people into another delving the depths of gay devices. You people must really feel extraordinarily bizarre when you get into those sex modes.
What are you talking about?
Anon. Did you know that 35% of all democrats do not use dental floss and that 33.5% of mongrol dogs have scabbies and that 85% of people under the age of 14 have chewed 44 pounds of chewing gum and that 92.333% of people over the age of 71 have eaten chicken at least 10,000 times in their lives? I just made those statistics up…but you get my drift. Forty percent you say? My, my. Aren’t we statistically challenged! Did you know that 45% of gay marriage couples throw out their straight children if they do not conform to the gay life style agenda? Poor little waifs out on the street with tin cups begging for crusts of bread. I’m sure my statistics are every bit as accurate as yours.
Its 40% of homeless youths are abused by sodomites.
Anonymous, there are two sides to every story. If these homosexual teens or men kept bringing their male lovers into their parent’s home and disobeying them, they were guilty of the breakage of the Commandment against honoring ones parents, and I am sure that happened at times. So people get the parent’s side, too, before condemning them. There is such a thing as child abuse, but there is also such a thing as abusing parents.
My husband and I did not allow our daughters to sleep at our house with their boyfriends, even as adults, so why on earth would we allow a son to sleep at our house with either a girlfriend or a boy friend as has happened in some cases with other families.
I knew at least two homosexual men who had wild parties at their parent’s home when they went away for the weekend or on vacation. Most likely the got it cleaned up before the parent’s got back.
At least one was not successful at it and got caught.
Isn’t allowing youth with SSA to participate in a social group while not engaging in sexual acts entirely consistent with Catholic morality?
No, its not consistent with Catholic Morarity.
Why not? I thought we are not supposed to discriminate, according to CCC.
According to CCC, I should avoid all sin, especially those that cry out to God for Vegance.
Anon, if you’re going to read the CCC, then turn it right side up.
Tell me bwangi, what IS consistent with Catholic morality then?
If children who are following the scout code and not engaging in sex but have SSA are to be excluded, where does the exclusion stop? Should we also exclude people with SSA from health care? Or food?
Or, should we follow Anne’s advice to it’s logical conclusion and include them as long as they don’t let us know they have SSA. Does that mean we welcome them with open arms in society as long as they lie about what and who they find sexually appealing?
I think that would be a GREAT idea to apply to Catholics. We can exclude Catholics from public life, schools, and social clubs as long as they lies about being Catholic (if asked) and never tell anyone they are Catholics. I suppose we must also require that if Catholics go to mass they wear masks since if anyone sees them going to Church they “aren’t keeping it to themselves”.
Any child who goes around celebrating any form of immorality has no place in a society that prides itselve in virtue.
JonJ, why are you compartmentalizing SSA? The CCC tells us that SSA is an intrinsic disorder. Intrinsic means that all behavior and attitudes are distorted by this disorder. This is why SSA men are not allowed into seminaries … and those who are snuck in are slaves of the evil men who snuck them in. These are the anti-Christ clerics.
Skai, where do you get this stuff?
Ditto.
Not if they are telling other children that so and so has two mommies or two daddies and that is all right, or two people of the same sex can “marry”.
Jon J, the temptation is not a sin, but to be prideful and announce that one is a homosexual and there is nothing wrong with the behavior or that same sex “marriages” are just great would be sinful and cause friction in the Scouts since they are supposed to hold to virtues not vices.
Though, I have to admit, I have been persuaded by the staunch Catholics on this site. I now see the error of my ways and realize that God demands that people with SSA be lovingly excluded from social groups like the Boy Scouts.
Children suffering from SSA should also be lovingly excluded from sports teams, movie nights, children’s birthday parties, and school.
In fact, we should also lovingly exclude our child from the dinner table if they suffer from SSA, because we can’t have in house attacks against the family occurring in our own kitchens and dinning rooms.
When such a child slinks off to a charity looking for food, they should be told the charity must focus its resources on needy families, but be told the good news about God’s all inclusive love as they lay on the street and starve to death.
No, JonJ, you’re mocking Jesus’ healing graces. The gay boys, regardless of the cause, need to be restored to normalcy, and Jesus can do it. If only the sodomites would be removed from the situation and stop trying to interfere with the work of the Church.
Nonsense.
Skai, I might be mocking someone, but those that I am mocking have little to do with Christ.
Which is exactly the point.
JonJ, in that the popes (not simply one pope but more than one) have forbidden SSA men from seminaries and ordination, then you are mocking them and God by advocating stuffing SSA boys into Scout groups. These intrinsically disordered men have no business being given any authority over other souls, none whatsoever at all. And the defiance of this tabu is part and parcel of the gay agenda to use whatever they can, meaning making slaves out of boys, to corrupt society. A SSA boy has homosexual adults pulling their strings, and these nefarious adults use these boys as puppets to infiltrate the moral order for the purpose of making it immoral.
That’s nice, IF the Church could do it. Of course, Courage themselves say that only a very small number “flip” their sexuality and instead the majority of their “success” is in helping people with SSA to not engage in sex.
Repressing SSA isn’t curing it by any means—because a person that doesn’t act on SSA still has SSA.
How does one treat these raging seas of pre- pubescent and pubescent hormones . . . saltpeter in the water supply? At these ages, sexuality promotes itself, so it’s not something that can really be ignored. The Boy Scouts have been dealing with these issues for years; recognizing that homosexuals are in the mix doesn’t change anything,. “Promoting” sexuality, indeed. What utter nonsense.
Are you Catholic? Do you even pretend to learn the teaching of your Faith?
Start with the Catechism. Move on to “Humanae Vitae” followed by The Theology of the body.
“How does one treat these raging seas of pre- pubescent and pubescent hormones…” Chastity thru the holy sacraments. Most especially the eucharist and confession. Devotion to the Holy Mother of God.
The absolute LAST thing you or I should be advocating is trusting in secular institution to teach our children about human sexuality.
Waaaaah. Who is teaching anything about sex in the Boy Scouts. Dudnt seem like the right place to me, but this is about letting gay kids in the door. Teaching stays the same
They should not be let in. Should canibals also be admited in to the boy scouts? For their is no difference between both assults aganist nature!
bwangi, looks like some cannibal ate one of the “n”s in your post : ))
Prayer and fasting, peter. It is the way of the people of God. God is faithful to His people and does not hand them snakes.
Well, continue mocking us, if you think its a joke. If you think God is a joke, you need to read accounts of the Miracle of Fatima from the anti clerical communist newspaper the O Século of Portugal at the time. If a communist can report that God indeed moved the sun from its axis or the earth, as a warning to mankind, continue in your ways, hopefully this serves as a warning to you.
You have been warned. Sin is a serious thing. God let his very self die on the cross for it.
Jon J, those with homosexual orietations have always been involved in these things, but for the most part just kept their mouths shut. Let’s fact it, when a person with a homosexual or lesbians orientation tells a preson who thinks it iss wrong about their orentation, many confirmed heterosexuals take it as a “come on” and feel uncomfortable thereafter around them and most often will avoid them and seek those who hold their own moral values.
That is just the way it is. I know I avoided a friend I had at one place where I worked after she said something untoward to me. I did not talk about or label her to others as I thought she might outgrow it, but I left her alone.
I certainlly made a lot of typos hurriedly in my last posts, but I think the message got through anyway.
And for your penance, Anne T., you have to count the number of typos in the CCC 2nd Edition.
I suppose if a preson is insecure in their orentation they might view a coming out as a “come on” but really that preson is just flattering herself and shunning that preson is kinda showing that she isn’t as catholic as she might thinks herself to be.
No, Anonymous, it’s that normals do not like gays interfering with their lives.
That is just your opinion, Anonymous, nothing more.
Has it ever even occurred to you, Anonymous, that such a reaction could be done out of pure disgust at even the thought of the idea? Well, Anonymous, the very idea of such behavior is loathsome to many people.
That woman was not “coming out” to me as many put it, Anonymous. She was blatantly trying to flirt with me which I found totally disgusting. That is why I avoided her. Nevertheless, I would avoid anyone who got “into my face” about their behavior with someone else, whether of the heterosexual or homosexual variety. My friends at work were heterosexual married women who behaved themselves. All other fellow co workers were just acquaintances as far as I was concerned, and I did not get involved in their personal lives, nor did I sit there and listen to the details about their affairs.
Anonymous, when I see an attractive woman … which is not infrequently … my eyes spin in their sockets, my ears flap furiously, my blood pressure goes to 700, my feet start jumping around incontrollably, I start break dancing and jump style shuffling, and doing cartwheels … until I can get control of myself or until the attractive woman disappears whichever comes first … and of course the disappearing always comes first. On the contrary when I see a gay blade, I get all angry and disgusted and put on a sandwich sign saying that society needs to end this travesty of human dignity. Anon, can you somewhat see the difference thorugh what I have posted?
You must be a ‘toon.
That situation with the woman I mentioned, though, happened before I was married, so my friends then were either single heterosexual women or married heterosexual women.
Of course I was dating men, but married early.
Hopefully, Anne T., you were blessed with children, say fifteen or twenty of them : )
If that is what was actually happening, then yes, you would have cause to write such an exaggerated response. As usual, though, the lies being promoted by the homosexual mafia attacking the Boy Scouts like slavering wolves over tasty scraps of meat, that is not what is happening Jon. But one thing I’ve learned on this site is the complete and utter uselessness of trying to reason with people who are utterly incapable of reasoning, logic or common sense. I’ll just say that you’re all wilfullly rebelling against the laws of God and let it go at that.
Opening up the door to problems.
Probably the best compromise the BSA could come up with. Most of the boys won’t get to thinking about other boys until they are in their teens, and with bullying rampant at schools the scouts who think they are gay are not likely to advertise. Keeping the scoutmasters as straight makes common sense. If they’re attracted to males, they may be attracted to adolescent males, too….remember the priest’s sex abuse scandal? You wouldn’t even think of using a straight male scoutmaster with adolescent girl scouts, would you, so you don’t put a gay male scoutmaster with straight male scouts…..too much potential for sexual missteps. BSA did the best they could under the circumstances.
Boy Scouts start at age 11 and go through age 18.
R.I.P. BSA. Nice to have known ya.
Adios BSA no more support from me nor anyone I know close to us….Joe I agree …
I once donated a large amount of money, at least for me it was, to the Boy Scouts of Orange County. I loved the BSA and was very much a part of it. That has all now come to an end but my tears continue.
The Scouts of Europe are a Catholic Organization, how long will it be before they are under attack as well.
Viva Cristo Rey!
May God have mercy on America
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
I feel your sadness Mr. Fisher….many good men came from the Boys Scouts…never in all American History would we have thought it would come to this? Well same goes for the Girls scouts and other good organizations that were suppose to be good too…now they are being used for agenda driven goons.
But with all evil….it will have it’s end….but it’s all in God’s time not ours…we just have to keep enduring and persevering with fortitude.
First it was the Girl Scouts and now the Boy Scouts. Well, God never guaranteed either organization. The moral folks will create what they need to carry on and work with God to create society ever anew.
The BSA can’t count on my financial support anymore.
Homosexuality is a serious disorder – a form of sexual dysfunction characterized by puerility and egotism. Homosexual acts are in and of themselves, intrinsically disordered, and if society really knew just what these homosexuals do in pursuit of their sick kicks, they would be deeply offended and nauseous. The homosexuals are being given, by the powers that be, a complete carte blanche to reconstruct and remodel human society based upon their sick sexual preferences. This is not a human rights issue. Humans possess no ‘basic human right’ to impose their sick sexual fantasies upon the rest of society. The leftist hypocrites and commissars who support, empower and encourage them in this endeavor are always among the very first to focus their hypocritical rage upon the Catholic Church, rehashing over and over again a ‘sex scandal’ that ended back in the 1990’s while in the same breath SUPPORTING homosexual infiltration of the Boy Scouts and every other institution where predatory homosexuals can insinuate themselves into the company of young boys and girls.
This is akin to allowing criminals to redefine our code of laws, and, truth be told, the Supreme Soviet Court of the United States has been leaning in that direction as well. Now that they have redefined marriage, they might just as well allow thieves to redefine theft, too.
The plain truth of the matter is that our government is in the hands of a criminal, morally bankrupt political party that has been transformed into a Ne0-Marxist organization hiding behind a veneer of ‘democracy.’
Looking back over the years, Senator Joe McCarthy was right. The steady erosion of our freedoms by leftist tyrants should have been nipped in the bud decades ago. Seeing that we failed to avail ourselves of the right means of dealing with the problem will only make things much more difficult in the future. A collision was inevitable. The question to be asked now is “Quo Vadis?”
Paul, you hit the nail right on the head. Isn’t it ironic that now Russia seems to be more Christian and God fearing in some places than this country? They blackballed McCarthy, but when the Russian archives were open after the fall of Communism, they found out most of what McCarthy said was right. He did use rather harsh tactics at times but in most cases he was right about who was or was not a Communist.
I didn’t know scouting applications required the boys to list their sexual orientation. Will that change now?i
Let us hope not, Jeff. It should not even be discussed during scouting. My grandsons go with our family when they go on camping trips and have just as much fun and perhaps more.
Anne T.,
As far as I have seen in my long time with BSA, it was not discussed and never should be, but watch out now!
Tearfully, I am strongly considering removing all of my Scouting Awards from my home office wall!
The Mormons are the largest denominational group in Scouting and the Catholics second, guess which group may fold first!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Kenneth, all you have to do is put a disclaimer with your awards, that explains the situation.
Wow… you people leave me speechless. From your raging comments against homosexuals, it almost makes me believe that some of you have homosexual desires hidden deep inside. (And I hope you don’t take that as offensive, because, at least from my perspective, it shouldn’t be).
Homosexuality is sinful, and every Christian hates sins.
Bwangi, you know, Courage believes that homosexuality is caused by kids failing to develop healthy same sex relationships during childhood.
And you believe that the Scouts (and presumably all faithful Christians) should refuse to associate with people who have SSA—even in groups which the core values require them not to engage in sexual activity. This rejection is EXACTLY what Courage believes causes their problem in the first place.
Consequently, I suspect God will be similarly welcoming to you when He issues invitations to dine at his table in the afterlife. Your behavior is EXACTLY the kind of fake devotion that make others believe Catholics are bigots.
What a crock, JonJ!!! You’re comparing family with village, which is to say that sexual development thrives with father and mother in a good marriage and you equate this with a group of boys and some of their fathers. No wonder your posts on interpersonal relationships are so messed up all the time, you do not even come close to understanding it.
Ok Skai, lets say you’re entirely right about “Family” dysfunction being the ONLY cause of homosexuality.
What now are we supposed to do with these remnants from broken families? Are we supposed to shove them into the garbage while saying, “that’s too bad about your upbringing, get away you sick freak!” How Christian.
Funny how Courage tries to help adult sufferers of SSA by helping form healthy same sex social interactions through sports and social events—gee, sounds like Scouts. The fact is that Courage mostly fails: very few ever “flip” sexuality. Instead, all Courage manages to do is get people to suppress their sexual activity. Do you think that it’s at all possible that such social defects might be more effective if addressed earlier in life?
Skai, have you heard the phrase, “What you do unto the least of my brothers, so you do unto Me.”?
That phrase means something to a true Christian. A fake Christian looks to shove sinners away from themselves in order to establish their superior status.
I dislike with a passion any attempt to pass off something that is so morally repugnant and shameful as good and acceptable to society.
Who in their right mind would put their reproductive organs into their digestive organs and call it normal? Its sick. Its Demonic, and Evil!!
And I HATE all evil.
The Catholic Church does not teach that the homosexual orientation is sinful. The Catholic Church does not teach that homosexual persons are evil or demonic. I realize that some here hate homosexuality and gay people but in doing so they are not following the teachings of Christ.
bwangi Kilonzo I feel the same.. God bless you…
Gerardo, Jesus raged against sodomites to the extent of annihilating two big cities packed with them. So, many people prefer to go with God instead of with sodomites. Is this fact a surprise to you?
Skai, which gospel was that in, Matthew, Mark, Luke or John? I have read the 4 gospels many times over and never read anything there about Jesus raging against homosexuals or annihilating them. Again, this is your own theology that you brought into the Catholic Church with you.
Dream on, Gerardo! All of you interpret our disgust for your sick lifestyle as a secret desire to be like you! Get a grip!
So by your and anonymous’s thinking, Gerardo, if something loathes bank robbing or murder, and they avoid someone who tries to get them to rob a bank or kill someone, they secretly want to rob a bank or murder. That is just great thinking, Gerardo! Said sarcastically, of course.
Anne T, robbing a bank or murdering someone is an action. Being a homosexual is a state of being. Geraldo is saying that someone who is a homosexual and is ashamed of it may express hatred of homosexual persons as a means of keeping people from thinking that he may be homosexual.
PA, people who are not homosexual and who have been around homosexuals understand what Gerardo posted, and yet at the same time we also know that it is a fascade of confusion in the minds, hearts, souls of homosexuals. Homosexuals confuse their lusts with reality, and their ability to empathize with or understand others is diminished severely. This problem is so bad that it seems that the most flagrant examples of sociopaths are the homosexuals especially the advocates and activists.
Skai you keep making these scandalous accusations without so much as an ounce of proof. It is hardly Christian to bear false witness, as both the Commandments and the CCC testify. If you have evidence, please produce it. If not, then please stop spreading untrue statements about people you don’t even know.
Mark from PA, whether robbing a bank or murdering is more sinful or not, the principle is the same. Practicing sodomy IS an action, a disease ridden and injurious one.
Anne T., homosexuality is not sodomy. Homosexuality is a condition where people are predominantly sexually attracted to their own gender. A homosexual person may be chaste, may be married to a person of the other gender, may never act on this condition. This is not sinful. Sodomy is a sex act that can be performed either homosexually by males on males or females. A broader definition of sodomy includes all sex acts that are not “babymaking.” These too can be performed by homosexual or heterosexual persons. All are grave sins.
Moreover, these “Gerardos” indulge in a type of sex activity that is a hateful activity. They act out their hate by their sex acts. Thus, of course they’d assume that all hate has something to do with sodomy. Their minds are darkened more every moment they persist in their deranged way of socializing.
Anonymous, we (older people) all know that. The plain fact is that most of us who are old enough to see what has gone on do not trust most homosexuals any more. We all know that some heterosexuals use that type of behavior sometimes as birth control or for other reasons in some countries. Nevertheless, it is a disease ridden and injurious method, with or without condoms. They often break, and the trauma to that area also leads to anal cancers among other injuries and diseases. When I was young, there were about four or five STDs, all curable. Now there are many more, incurable. By the grace of God, some of us have been lucky enough never to have had any of them, mostly through the use of common sense and self discipline. Many times in other countries, boxes of condoms have been left on docks for too long til they deteriorate, then given to people to use who are told they are safe, and they are not. For many it is all about money. Most of us do not trust most of those with the orientation any more because of what we have seen or heard about from friends and healthcare workers about the decadent parades in cities like San Francisco, and their pushing for so-called “rights” such as “marriage” that is just plain evil. Also, there are those of us who have had to suffer through male on male under-aged molestation in our families. I knew one woman who trusted her own brother with her own son, only to find out he molested him. So call us whatever you want, we have our reasons, and there are plenty of them.
But . of course, if you falsely thought that someone was lewd or evil just because of some gossip or stereotype then you would be guilty of sin.
Or, if you were to judge an entire group of people based upon your experience of a small sample of them. That prejudice might be sinful, would it not?
Don’t cave into to the pressures of an immoral apathetic world BSA, a world that doesn’t give a hoot about God! Hang in there and protect the children!
It is too late for the BSA. The sodomy mafia owns them now. Christian scouting may have to go underground. Participants should be taught how to hide from drones.
Ski Ven, you can buy your own drone, which you can control from an iPad while it flies out of your sight, less than a thousand smackers.
Where is the Bishops’ California Catholic Conference?
Where are individual Diocese Bishops?
Many Scout Troops are attached to Catholic parishes.
Marybeth, some bishops are themselves homosexuals (but not openly so). Do you think they are going to stand up for discrimination against innocent kids due to their sexual orientation or appearance? Most bishops probably think these kids should be treated with respect and compassion and not discriminated against.
Could that be why they covered up the rape of altar boys? Hmmmmmnnnnn, Hmmmmnnnnn, Hmmmmnnnn! So much for them having concern for inncent kids.
Ski Ven: I’m pretty sure Mark, and certainly not myself, condone coverups of the rapes of altar boys or girls, regardless of whether the perpetrator was gay or straight. Those who committed the offenses, and those who covered up should both be removed from ministry. We are all agreed upon that. But I’m also agreed with Mark that there are many other great men in ministry, who are completely uninvolved in the atrocities against our young, who would not condone discrimination against gay youth or adults, or those who dress out of conformity to the norms.
Your Fellow Catholic, just to let you know that in the past I have spoken out against the abuse of young people and the coverup by Catholic clergy. I think it is terrible that Cardinal Law was not really punished for his part in this. Among others Cardinal Bevilacqua of Philadelphia and Archbishop Sanchez of Santa Fe brought shame to the Church by their actions. Bishop Ryan of Springfield, Illinois and Bishop Dupre of Springfield, Massachusetts, also were negligent in this regard. It is still hard for me to understand. It touched me in a personal way several years ago when I discovered that one of the priests that taught me in high school was a predator.
Your Fellow Catholic, Mark was talking about how some Bishops themselves are homosexuals. Most of the sexual abuse victims were boys. Most of the perpetrators were Priests, not Nuns. That means that in a majority of cases, adult males were raping younger males. That qualifies as homosexual relations. It is understandable that the aforesaid Bishops would attempt to protect the reputation of their sexual orientation by concealing the molestation and engaging in obfuscation. The media, the political world, and school curriculums have plenty of evidence to show that the lovers of sodomy are making a very concerted effort bestow upon their beloved sexual orientation a good reputation. Any negative news about sodomy gets buried for this reason. You can put lipstick on a pig but it still stinks. Anyone who has enough reason to know why indoor plumbing was invented and why human beings go through a lot of trouble to build and maintain sewer systems can figure out why sodomy is sick behaviour. Even if a person does not know about bacteria and viruses, the digusting sights and smells should clue him in that something is happing that is not good. A person would have to be amazingly stupid to think that sodomy is a good thing. So, septic sexual activists can go around the public schools saying “it is ok to be gay” until their faces turn blue but many people are not going to buy into it. You will have to use force to eliminate people who do not condone sodomy, hence the court cases in several states that are designed to do just that.
Dear Ski Ven: It appears you are confusing a few things here. It doesn’t matter whether perps are gay or straight, they are all detestable and ought to be removed from ministry. I’m gay. I make no apologies or coverups for gay priests who committed these acts. Nor do any member of the gay community that I’m aware of. We regularly take to the public media to take these men to task, as we should. So I’m not sure what you are getting at when you say that gay people are covering up for these crimes. If anything, those who claim that this is a gay problem are covering up for the straight priests who abused women and girls. This is a shameful set of situations, and we are all better off when we are rid of these rapists, regardless of sexual orientation.
YFC, Catholicism has always taught that gays must straighten up before they can enter heaven. St Paul mentions some who “were” (past tense) gays or effeminates. And then became Catholics. You cannot be both, because it is not possible. What you gay agenda hucksters are up to is attempting to subjugate the Church to a gay state: The Lord God made it clear that the end of gayness is the molesting of the faithful, of the angels of God and even of God, as that is what the devil always is up to, the domination of God and creation. Your only hope of salvation is to go with God, who inspired St Paul to teach us, including all the bishops, that gays have the absolute responsibility to turn away from their gaity. St Paul did not address directly the modern question of same sex attraction, because it is not important. What is important is that all gays renounce being gay and pick up their crosses and follow Jesus. The critical difference between a prostitute and a gay man is honesty: The prostitute admits her sin, but the gay man refuses to. There is no way you can enter Heaven while possessing the attitude of vanity, and gays are intrinsically vain. The best they can ever achieve is the utilitarian stage of functioning in a workplace, whether sewing underwear in a factory, or playing NFL or piloting fighter planes … utilitarian excellence or even mediocrity has no power or authority to admit one to Heaven. All power and authority is God’s He says to the gays at His door, “No way, gay”.
Skai, you still don’t get it that the Catholic Church does not teach that it is a sin to be gay. It isn’t a sin to have a homosexual orientation according to Catholic teaching. You have your own beliefs about this that predate your becoming Catholic. According to you, God says to the gays at His door, “No way, gay.” But who are you to speak for God? In your mind God hates homosexual persons but that is just what you think. If God doesn’t follow what you think does that make God wrong?
PA, it is indeed a sin to refuse to disorient from a gay orientation. Who knows how the orientation began … eg the expression “sins of our fathers” derives from two OT verses about the consequences of sins reaching down fifty and a hundred generations. The gay is obligated by God to follow Jesus and not follow his lusts. This could mean that a gay man would have to renounce sexual activity both physically and imaginatively … in thoughts, in words, actions and failures to act. If you can do this, then you have become a man and are no longer gay or same sex attracted. Give it a try.
Mark from PA – PLEASE ANSWER – – – –
you have never addressed the REQUIREMENT for each of us to stay away from OCCASIONS of SIN.
Overnight campouts including homosexuals can be an occasion of sin or purposely putting oneself in the position to be tempted for those afflicted with SSA (same-sex attraction).
(We would not let our unmarried youth to spend the night with those of the opposite sex for these same reasons.)
Oscar, gay boys are still boys. It isn’t really the same as a boy spending the night with a girl. If a boy who is gay likes to go camping, why shouldn’t he? You seem to be saying that boys who are gay should avoid spending time with other boys. Also some people have the mistaken notion that boys who are gay have no self-control.
We must keep our youth and teens away from sexual arousal as much as possible.
We must never purposely put them in the near occasion of sin – whether it be with those of the same or opposite sex (depending on their orientation).
The devil has perseverence and is bent of people not reading or accepting St. Paul’s epistle to the Romans, Chapter 1, verses 26-3: [26] “For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Douay-Rheims Holy Bible footnote: [26] “God delivered them up: Not by being author of their sins, but by withdrawing his grace, and so permitting them, in punishment of their pride, to fall into those shameful sins”.
[31]” Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. [32] Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them”.
Now it couldn’t be any clearer than that. Whomever cannot comprehend must not be blessed with God’s sanctifying grace as St. Paul says. St. Paul obviously is a man of God, not someone to ignore as the Holy Ghost speaks to us through his readings. To bad many homosexual Vatican 2 members are cafeteria types, the trouble is to be truly Roman Catholic we can’t pick and choose what we accept of God’s Holy Will and Truths. Put yourself in a father’s shoes, would you be happy with your childs behavior if he defied you, disobeyed you, believed only what he wanted to believe and not everything you taught him? Pray the rosary to find God’s Holy Truth and breakdown your LGBT pride.
2:
Harvey, those of us who hold ‘these truths to be self-evident’ that homosexuality is an aberration and a disordered sexuality have quoted Romans I frequently, as well as other verses in scripture. It is as water off a duck’s back to those who are blinded by hardened hearts and who have embraced their sins and have become their sin. They can no longer disassociate the sin from their self-absorbed reality of what truth is nor can they hear God’s voice. It’s a lesson to us all. What we’re facing on a larger scale around the world is a seismic shift of our laws and social order in favor of this tiny, fractured minority. In England they’re already saying Roman Catholic priests may no longer marry people because they are guilty of ‘hate crimes’ in saying homosexuality is a sin. It hasn’t happened yet, but without divine intervention, I see the Church under tremendous overwhelming odds in the coming years as the secular humanist atheists use the homosexual wedge to open the gates of our fortress. God is in control and with Him all things are possible. But, as for trying to reason with this juggernaut of ruthlessness, I would spend more time in praying for the Church and her faithful that they persevere to the end.
England is known for favoring homosexuality and pedophilia. Maybe that moniker came about through England’s extreme persecution of the Church over several centuries.
Much better, Harv!!!
Not that we should care but it shows how cults are even causing more harm.
Earlier today I found this headlines By BRADY McCOMBS | Associated Press – Thu, Apr 25, 2013: Mormon church pleased with Boy Scouts proposal
Geeze!
Saying unpleasant things is a hate crime?…what happened to the first amendment of the constitution?…not a single person in this country has been imprisoned for so called “hate crimes”…that were based upon speaking out against the revolting behavior of homosexual’s who indulge in the “perversion” of sodomy!… the truth is a good way to get sober fast…quicker then a strong cup of mud…
Sodomy leads to even more revolting perversion’s that these degenerate’s indulge in…zoophilia, and even pygmalianism to name just a couple… and a whole host of other sexual paraphilia’s, which are an outgrowth of the dreaded sodomite…
Just think, they are all out in the woods surrounded by animals. Just wait until other activist groups decide that they want in on the fun. Their name should be changed into the Booty call Scouts of America.
Cannibalism, sadism, genocide are marks of the gay agenda.
Skai, and sadism, torture and large scale thievery were the marks of the Catholic clergy that participated in the Spanish Inquisition. I guess the whole Church was useless and should have been rejected by all right thinking people because such an organization could never possibly benefit mankind.
Your logic is indeed flawed Jon J. Your high powered analogy loses steam quickly when analyzed more closely. The Inquisition was instrumental in “weeding” out those member’s of society who spread, treason, tumult and revolt! It served as a backlash, to the horror that was unfolding in England, where Catholics were brutally burned alive and worse… by the butcher Cranmer, and those cleaver-men, who did the abominable bidding of Queen Elizabeth. The worst thing these folks were guilty of in Spain was HERESY!…yes HERESY!, against Holy Mother Church! They were given the opportunity to recant, and make things right…they chose another path, and payed the price. These were tumultuous political times…the Church and the Spanish monarchy, was not about to allow it’s great nation to become immersed in the poison of Protestantism! The Church had to hold the line somewhere…and everything “we” lost during the reformation, the Church got back “tenfold” during the counter-reformation! History has shown that the Catholic Church is like a “roaring lion”, once it is let out of it’s cage, it can very ably defend itself!
omg you’re defending torture at the hand of the church. wow.
Proud Rhodesian, maybe you should learn a little bit about the Inquisition. You said, “They were given the opportunity to recant, and make things right…they chose another path, and payed the price.”
Hmmm…Rhosdesian, did you know that during the Inquisition and in all ecclesiastical courts, it was accepted practice to torture SUSPECTS in order to gain confessions. Catch that—SUSPECTS, people who had NOT YET BEEN CONVICTED. The Chruch TORTURED people to get confessions before they had been convicted of any crime.
Also, the Inquisition SEIZED all the WORLDLY GOODS of ACCUSED heretics. In subsequent studies on the Inquisition, researchers discovered that the Inquisitors accused a wildly disproportionate number of wealthy and affluent people. And, the seizure of assets OCCURRED BEFORE CONVICTION.
So, even if you were acquitted you still had to get your property back from the Inquisitors. Yeah, good luck with that.
Tell me, Rhodesian, do you think the ends justify the means?
No, you are trying to confuse things. Like you really don’t know what I was “getting at”. I was clearly talking about homosexual Bishops who were covering for homosexual Priests. No one can be that stupid as to not know what I was talking about. Now you are trying to say that people are covering for the straight Priests by talking about the crimes that were committed by homosexual Priests. The straight Priests don’t need as much covering up as the homosexuals because the majority of the cases involve homosexual incidents. If someone wants to resolve a problem, it makes sense to focus on the largest contributing factor to the problem. There is no need for anyone to try to protect the reputation of heterosexuality. Even though heterosexuality can be misused, it provides a positive social good when expressed in the lifetime union of one man and one woman. Heterosexuality ensures the survival of the human race after the current generation dies off. Homosexuality does not provide any positive social good, but it does expose its participants to diseases the costs of which society has to bear. Therefore, in order to promote the homosexual agenda, it is necessary to control the courts and to saturate the media and school curricula with pro-homosexual propaganda that is designed to bestow a good reputation on that particularly septic sexual orientation. Anything that is negative about the homosexual orientation must be buried and homosexual figures must be presented as heroes. Homosexuals have to be presented in the media as sweet innocent victims of those nasty, hateful religious bigots who have glowing red eyes and big nasty horns growing out of their heads. In order to gain the sympathy of the public, the public must be told that homosexuals are being attacked for who they are through no fault of their own and that they need to be protected by hate speech laws that criminalize the promulgation of religious beliefs that are deemed to be hurtful to homosexuals. I would not be surprised if you denied that all of this is taking place even though there is plenty of evidence that it is taking place all over the world. Your previous response shows that you think that I will fall for your childish word games rather than believe what I can see is happening all around me. I won’t grant you the satisfaction of wasting too much of my time. Trying to cover for the straight Priests, what a joke… ( Sorry for the typos in my previous post folks. )
Ski Ven, only a small percentage of priests were involved in abusing children. A much larger percentage were involved with adult women. Being involved in a consensual relationship with a woman is not a crime so this gets covered up and the Church doesn’t really think it is anyone’s business. However, many priests and bishops who were involved with women had a “nobody’s perfect” attitude when it came to priests involved with children and tended to go easy on the abusers, especially if the abuser was aware of the bishop or superior’s relationship with a woman. So in many cases these men tended to cover for each other. So trying to cover the the straight priests isn’t really a joke and isn’t really funny if you think about it.
Speech is not considered a hate crime. Some speech is hateful and can be called hate speech, but it isn’t a crime.
We say that the public needs to be told that homosexuals are the victim of crimes. It is true. Please consult the FBI stats on the matter. But hate speech is not included in those stats. If a person physically assaults a person while using hate speech, then, yes, that ASSAULT would be a hate crime, and the FBI stats would include it.
But no one is being told anything about hate crimes that is untrue. Many gay people I know, including myself, have had eggs thrown at them, have been punched, shoved, or worse – by anonymous people just because we are gay.
Your Fellow Catholic – so why do you tell anyone that you are gay ?
Your sexual orientation is your own private business.
What consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home is between themselves and God.
Most people do not discuss their personal business unless they are trying to recruit others to the lifestyle.
Btw – there was a court case in CA where straight firefighters were pinched, shoved, degraded, and verbally abused by gays because they were heterosexual.
” San Diego, Calif., Jan 31, 2011 / 01:12 pm (CNA).- Members of the San Diego Fire Department have won a sexual harassment lawsuit against the city for being forced to participate in a local gay pride parade in 2007. ” . . . .etc.
Pete – I agree with you that, fundamentally, a person’s sexual orientation is a private matter. However, hate crimes don’t happen to people who verbalize their sexual orientation. They happen in the streets when people make assumptions about people’s sexual orientation. Interestingly enough, one of the last incidents happenned around noontime in broad daylight. I was coming out of a greasy spoon after breakfast with a female friend. We were hugging good-bye and someone in a truck yelled out ” Die fucking fags “. In this case, there was no physical assault, and therefore no hate crimes. But this is the kind of behavior gay people have to tolerate often, even in San Francisco.
But even if we DO disclose our sexual orientation….why is that something that deserves such hateful response. If we simply reveal something truthful about ourselves, why does that deserve this kind of response?
No wonder you do not comprehend Catholicism, Anonymous! Gays are incapable of knowing or understanding Catholicism.
In the Selous Scouts, the notion of “gays”, was never an issue…allegedly a gay bar existed in Salisbury in the 70’s…it was never confirmed…”gays” are psychologically wired wrong…the “control tower” is not functioning the way it should…
“Many gay people I know, including myself, have had eggs thrown at them, have been punched, shoved, or worse – by anonymous people just because we are gay.”
I am so very sorry that you have had to experience such cruelty. Cruelty is wrong, period. Experiencing cruelty does not justify the legislation of an abhorrent ruling known as same sex marriage, or perversion or unnatural acts. After all it was human beings who did this to you and we are all the products of Original sin. Christ never harmed you! He died on the Cross to Redeem all sinners, yet you, in turn are asking Christ to turn the other cheek while you continue to slap Him. A few years ago, without parental permission, my daughter’s high school allowed a free clinic speaker to come into her special ed class to teach handicap people how to not reproduce more handicapped people in society. They showed the special ed students condoms in the school colors so the message would come across loud and clear to the learning disabled. I asked one of my daughter’s classmate what did she learn from this speaker. The classmate’s exact words were, “They were telling us to go for it.”
While living in Utah, the only Catholic family living on my street had a son who slugged my daughter in the stomach. I went to speak with the boy’s mother. The mother said, “I am so ashamed of my boy will you speak with him.” I asked the young boy why he hit her and he said that he hit her because everyone else at school did too.” Different Cross but same brand of cruelty. As I was leaving the house the Catholic mother told me that she was peeking through the kitchen blinds silently listening and she was so ashamed when she heard my son ask her boy if he was also cruel to the girl with cerebral palsy who lived up the street. The woman heard her son respond, “Do you mean that retarded cripple on the bus?” My son said, “See that is the difference between you and me. You will always see her as the retarded cripple on the bus, while I will take the time to get to know her as a person.” BTW That same young lady with cerebral palsy graduated from Stanford. Handicapped people, fat people, anorexic people and even beautiful people can become the targets of someones hatred. I understand your dislike of cruelty but instead of turning against God you could be choosing to teach others like Mark F has chosen to do. I understand what it is like to have to brace oneself in public for the unbelievable things that human beings can do to one another. Still, this will NEVER justify turning against God who IS our greatest hope and refuge. You have essentially thrown in the towel and said, “God because I have been given this difficult Cross to carry I will use my free will to join in agitating society into a collective rejection of Your Natural Law because I do not want to pick up my Cross and follow you. Since I can’t change you God, I’ll join the crowd and change what You have said. I am not too bothered at this particular moment in time because I am receiving great public support for slapping You in the face.”
However, YFC, as comfortably confident as you are in your terrible error, there will STILL come a day of reckoning where you will be held accountable and I hope and pray that you sorrowfully repent and tell God that you are so very sorry for slapping Him in the face. Unless you do this, I am truly afraid for the eternal cruelty that is in store for those who have used their own God given gift of free will to reject Him and mock His Laws.
Catherine – first of all, thank you for some very kind sincere words in your post. Few here on CCD are willing to acknowledge that gay people are subject to cruelty by people around them, yet you were brave and compassionate enough to do so. Thank you.
However, I think you are a bit confused about various causes and effects. The if’s and the then’s. It is not because I have been treated cruelly that I believe that the Church ought to remain neutral on marriage equality. Wholly independent upon how I have been treated, I believe that many people who want to get married do so to PROTECT THEIR CHILDREN, to give them the best lives our society can, to give them the very best that civil law can provide for them. This is completely independent from how I have been treated, and, also, is completely independent from any proscriptions of same sex sexual activity. It is for the children.
In addition, my advocacy of marriage has nothing to do with a desire to legalize homosexual sex, which is the part of all of this that the Church considers sinful. Like it or not, the Supreme Court has ruled that intimate acts, including between people of the same sex, is not a matter to be regulated by governments. The struggle over marriage equality is not about the struggle to legalize or legitimize same sex sexual conduct. It is about promoting stable loving relationships which often include the best environments in which to raise children. And before other folks go off on the idea that we ought to marry women to raise children…look folks…it ain’t gonna happen. And, trust me, you don’t want me marrying your daughter. It won’t end well.
That doesn’t change the fact that some of us have children. Sometimes through modern methods, but very often from prior relationships before we realized we were gay. And so very often, we are the only parents willing to adopt children with diseases like AIDS, or cleft palate, or mental retardation, or children who look differently than we do – black kids, native american kids, short kids, developmentally challenged kids.
And this latter paragraph reveals the untruth in what has been posted here on CCD…that gay people are incapable of empathy towards others. If anyone has lived through the AIDS crisis, if anyone has seen gay couples adopt the kinds of kids above…they absolutely know that this is a completely false charge leveled against us without merit.
Yet who else, besides you Catherine, can look beyond the prohibitions against same sex sexual activity and see us for what we truly are…just like the rest of you all…faithful Catholics, struggling to seek out God in our lives, and love our neighbor as ourselves.
Thanks for educating us on this matter, Your Fellow Catholic.
” And so very often, we are the only parents willing to adopt children with diseases like AIDS, or cleft palate, or mental retardation, or children who look differently than we do – black kids, native american kids, short kids, developmentally challenged kids.”What utter liberal nonsense…..oh God Almighty you make my stomach turn…
“In addition, my advocacy of marriage has nothing to do with a desire to legalize homosexual sex,” Tell me YFC how do you claim to be a Faithful to the Church when you advocate something the Church and the Truth has confirmed to be sinful..
You can be on one thing YFC I will fight your kind from infecting the Church any further than you already have using ALL MEANS….
YFC,
Thank you for your honest response. I would like you to understand that each and every poster who has addressed you on this wonderful website is showing great compassion and love, no matter how difficult or harsh it may seem. You see YFC when someone cares they respond. Today Jesus is greatly offended by the indifference of mankind to His Goodness. “The most deadly poison of our time is indifference. And this happens, although the praise of God should know no limits. Let us strive, therefore, to praise him to the greatest extent of our powers.”–St. Maximilian Maria Kolbe
YFC, You are honestly expressing many of *your own* thoughts which helps as a foundation for ultimately seeking the fullness of truth on this website. When you ask, who else looks beyond the prohibitions or flaws of man, you do know YFC that it is ONLY God who sees us for what we truly are. Others may see what outwardly appears as our good exterior actions while only God sees the purity of our intentions. When the final hour comes for each of us, the only thing that will matter is how we loved God and obeyed God’ Commandments. To love God first, IS to love our neighbor. Christ founded His One True Catholic and Apostolic Church on earth and there are specific teachings that are in place and they are there for our own good, even if we do not find them easy to follow.
YFC, You are also smart enough to intellectualize the concept that while it is very true that homosexuals can and have been treated cruelly, they do not have the market cornered on experiencing rejection or cruelty, yet your rationalizations make it sound as if the same specific Church teachings somehow don’t apply to your specific trial. YFC, Do you disagree with the Church’s teachings on remaining chaste or avoiding the near occasion of sin? Is that somehow been turned into a negotiable thought or action to you? I am not clear if you support and uphold Church teaching on that matter. I believe that you do care about your own soul and the souls of the people that you claim to love but there is perceived love and there is true Christlike sacrificial love that seeks first the Will of God before seeking to satisfy oneself first. Remember, no servant is greater than the Master. Homosexuals who call themselves Catholic have the same opportunity as heterosexuals who call themselves Catholic when it comes to using all of the spiritual tools that are available to us. Canisius beautifully wrote about seeking God’s Will first with the aid of frequent confession. We also have Holy Communion which if received worthily helps to unite our sufferings to Christ. We have the reading and powerful examples of the lives of the saints who struggled with similar passions but overcame the flesh in a grace filled pursuit of the fullness of faith to overcome or persevere in trials. We have the teachings in the CCC that help to teach and explain the why of specific questions. This is not about praying away the gay. Homosexuals and heterosexuals are entitled to benefit from the same Redeeming Grace. Christ died for all sinners. The parents who lost their children in Newtown to cruelty will not pray away the pain of the loss but with steadfast application of trust and faith they will come to an understanding that God works everything toward the Good, even when we humans are often the obstacle to seeing or understanding that Good. It takes tremendous Faith. Faith is a a precious gift and when one clearly knocks on the door to receive that gift, Our Lord always opens the merciful door to those who truly seek Him.
YFC, It is good that you are struggling to seek out God. Listen to the clear and instructive words that St. Paul said to the Philippians in Chapter 2. “[11] And that every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father. [12] Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation. [13] For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will. [14] And do ye all things without murmurings and hesitations; [15] That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world.”
[12] With fear: This is against the false faith, and presumptuous security of modern sectaries.
continued.
continued from May 1st 12:59 pm post.
YFC, We have to truthfully ask ourselves, “Am I doing my will and calling it God’s Will or am I obeying those very clear instructions to work out my salvation in fear and trembling? YFC, It is important to remember God’s intended design for children to be raised by a mother and a father. I am not ignoring the fact that there are numerous mothers and fathers who have fallen down on the job or the many children that do need to be placed in good homes no matter what their challenges may be. Children are suffering due to the sinful brokenness of the world. We see this suffering in the sin of abortion. Much of this suffering is a by-product of man’s sinful indifference to God. I am talking about God’s design for the structural foundation of the family and for the foundational good of society. Pope Emeritus Benedict wrote clearly on the matter of homosexual adoption. You either accept this or you reject it. Christ said. “You are either with me or you are against me.” YFC, You used the words “while we struggle to seek out God in our lives. ” YFC, Even though you may not realize it, or agree at this time, you are in a very uncomfortable spot but not an impossible spot. You want to justify all of your thoughts and actions because you have invested so many years in thinking and acting in a certain way. I am using the word difficult meaning it is not easy to turn around the Titanic to sail against the current in a new direction but with God all things are possible and it is never too late YFC to seek the full truth while we still have time allotted on this earth.
YFC, You have written about the protection of children I would like to ask you a question? Do you think that the children of homosexual men who were previously married were protected from the great sorrow of losing their once intact family of a father and a mother? That absolutely had to have hurt. I hear what you are saying, that these fathers could not live a lie so they chose to leave or break the unity of their once intact family. YFC, Would it be be less than truthful to say that these fathers put their own personal well being first before protecting the emotional well being of their own children? If you do not believe that then I would like to hear your honest explanation of how those children came first in knowing what is was like to be protected from emotional and psychological hurt. Can you see how that can be taken as an inconsistent statement to say that the protection of children is of the utmost importance when many children have had their hearts crushed when they have their father leave their once intact family. I think it is more honest to just admit that these men left to first to protect their feelings before they protected the tender developing feelings of their biological children. I realize that many rationalizing mechanisms are put into play in an attempt to justify why a homosexual man and father had to leave his intact family but can you honestly still say that children were not hurt in the process? I am not saying that these men do not love their children. I am not saying that these children have not learned how to cope with circumstances that they did not deserve. I am saying that the protection of children did not come first. Many heterosexual men and women also leave their intact family to pursue what they feel will bring them ultimate happiness while blissfully sailing off to a new life and leaving heartbroken children treading the swirling waters of treacherous emotional damage. Those children did not come first either. How many times have we heard these same stories? YFC, My neighbor left his middle aged wife and children for a beautiful young stewardess. One year after he married the stewardess, she was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig’s disease and was fully bedridden. In his planned out avoidance of working out his salvation in fear and trembling or carrying his Cross, his new found life quickly became a different kind of physical and emotional tethering. The fantasy soon became the reality of bed pans, wheelchair lifts and doctor’s appointments. This man also thought he was living a lie so he traded what he perceived as avoiding his initial Cross for the heavier price of a much greater Cross. This man eventually left the sick woman too. The greatest sorrow YFC is not the sufferings or trials on this earth. The greatest sorrow is to ultimately lose one’s soul. St. Teresa of Avila said, “There are more tears shed over answered prayers than over unanswered prayers.
YFC, I know that homosexuals have incredible empathy. I have experienced that sincere empathy from many. My cousin who died from aids had the most incredible empathy. At his funeral over 200 people gave powerful testimony to his incredible kindness. The stories were beautiful and there was no mistaking that this empathy was sincere. One elderly person who lived alone testified to how my cousin called this woman every birthday for over twenty years to let her know that she was not forgotten. The stories are too numerous to write but they were certainly real. I feel that this incredible empathy of many homosexuals stems from the result of a great understanding of interior suffering and of feeling rejected and never wanting to impart that same feeling on someone else. That is very commendable. The important part that I would like you to recognize is that this empathy should not be misused or contorted into an empathy that seeks to serve one’s own passions first before serving the Beloved whose sacrificial Passion and Death on the Cross and Resurrection promises us the hope of Eternal life. When we obey God, all of our suffering is then supernaturally transformed into a sublime empathy that has its greatest merits when primarily united first to Christ and in NEVER wanting to do anything that would offend God who is all Good and deserving of all of our love.
YFC, You are in the driver’s seat. There is nothing new under the sun. There is no new and revised road manual to Eternal Life. Jesus said, “If you love Me you will pick up your Cross and follow Me.”
It is never too late to repent or to tell one’s child that they were wrong and did not follow God’s laws. YFC, It is one thing to be held accountable or sorry for our own personal sins but to jump on the bandwagon that seeks to undermines the entire structure of society is a terrible risk for someone’s soul.
I pray that you view each and every reminder of Christ’s words as loving one’s neighbor as ourselves.
YFC, why do you say “homosexual sex which the Church considers sinful”? Why don’t you say, “homosexual sex which is sinful”? Apparently you do not see homosexual sex as sinful, although you know that the Church calls it sin. In this, you are indeed complicit in sodomy, in the same advocating manner as PA’s advocacy of sodomy despite knowing the Church doctrine calling it sinful.
Catherine wonderful post….you gave great examples, we don’t need to give special treatment to a specific group but we must respect all human life except in cases if they are committing evil acts such as murder etc…then that is a different story.
The examples you gave reminded me of a time when I was in Junior High. I was sitting to the side of a room waiting for my turn to dance Jazz..I was in Jazz class. There was another set of kids sitting together as well, there was three girls and one boy. Amongst them was the most beautiful girl there, she looked like a model, she had beautiful green eye’s, they were big and beautiful, her smile was lovely and angelic. Well one of the girls sitting with them was calling her ugly and the other girl was touching her hair and saying “you have ugly hair and ugly eye’s” and the boy was quite because the two girls picking on the pretty girl were loud and seem like they were very outspoken and intimidating. I couldn’t believe that people could be so mean. The pretty girl was looking down and then said “you are right I am ugly, I hate myself”. The other two girls just laughed and I don’t recall the rest of their conversation.
I felt so sad, how could anyone be so cruel. Later on that day, I mentioned to my mum and she explained to me that some girls can be mean spirited and perhaps they were jealous of her.
I think that public schools are indoctrination camps of some sort. Kids go there to learn not only the basics but also learn too early about sex and many a times, it is the wrong message about sex. If kids survive public schools today….it is most likely it was God’s graces that saved them but today there are many powerful evil influences in schools. I feel for this generation, it’s a lot more tougher. I thought it was tough when I was in school because there was so many bad influences but today, I think it is ten times worst. Sometimes I have to get a strong grip on myself and refocus because my faith gets shaken up a bit, it gets tested especially when it feels like the evil influences are winning more today. I told my husband the other day that I thought it was harder today for people of morals, faith and character because it feels like we are the minority. I noticed that liberal families fit in better in this society.
Abeca,
That is a heartbreaking story. Can you imagine how much that girl was hurt by such extreme cruelty. Your wise mum was right. Girls can be very cruel to another girl simply because the girl is beautiful. Envy is one of the seven deadly sins.
Some beautiful girls are bullied into becoming lesbians.
I am sorry that you have had to put up with mistreatment, Your Fellow Catholic. When I look back I realize how lucky I was as a young person. I remember that when I was a teen a lot of the kids would call other kids “queer” as an insult and it seems that the other kids didn’t really use this word around me. I think the other kids protected me to an extent. The other kids also didn’t really use bad language around me. When I was a teen I pretty much never had a bad word to say about anyone so I didn’t ever get in fights with anyone.
” so I didn’t ever get in fights with anyone.” which made you the “man” you are today
Thank you for the affirmation, Canisius. God bless you.
This is in reply to Catherine’s post when she said “YFC, You have written about the protection of children I would like to ask you a question? Do you think that the children of homosexual men who were previously married were protected from the great sorrow of losing their once intact family of a father and a mother? That absolutely had to have hurt. I hear what you are saying, that these fathers could not live a lie so they chose to leave or break the unity of their once intact family. YFC, Would it be be less than truthful to say that these fathers put their own personal well being first before protecting the emotional well being of their own children?”
Catherine, I think this is an excellent question (which you follow up with further good questions). The answer is that I think the given situation is too complex to make blanket statements.At the least, it is no different than straight couples with children who divorce. The state does not insist that divorced parents cannot get marriage licenses. No, it permits re-marriage in part to protect the children. (I realize, of course, that the Church has a different opinion. But we are not talking about sacramental marriage here, we are talking about civil marriage as licensed by the state, available to people of all faiths.)
But it is more complicated than you propose. For example, if the father, in this case, realizes that he is gay before the child is of a certain age, then there might be more damage to continuing to grow up in a loveless or at least less-than-truthful family than in starting over in a more honest environment. I think one also has to take the wife into consideration here too. Isn’t there some damage to her if she is forced to live a loveless life with a man who becomes a stranger to her?
But there are other scenarios too: I know men who DID choose to stay with their wives even after discovering that he was gay, but who then raised the kids in the context of a same sex relationship after the mother died. So I could go on weaving example after example like these two, but society needs to ask itself the question, if it is unprepared to grant marriage licenses to same sex couples who are already raising children, either naturally or through adoption, how will it protect those children?
YFC, do you think that normal boys raised by homosexual fathers should or should not be allowed to beat them up?
YFC,
Things are not quite as complex as you would like to make them seem. We can use our God given gift of free will to say yes to sin or no to sin.
I recently discovered some anti-Catholic teaching homosexual websites where the people who post there still call themselves Catholic too. I honestly did not know that they even existed. One of the things that truly caught my attention was a story told by a man who (like you) also lives in a homosexual relationship with another man. He was sharing a story of what happened to him when he went on a retreat. This man said that at that particular time he was having doubts, second thoughts about his whole life wondering if maybe he was wrong or misguided so he went into the chapel to pray. While praying alone in this chapel this man was suddenly overtaken with the most powerful feeling of the Mystical Presence of God and he was not sure about his life and what God wanted him to do. He went and spoke with the retreat master about this overwhelming Mystical experience who INSTEAD of directing this man back to listening to the promptings of the inner voice of Christ that spoke to him in the chapel, the retreat master directed him away from that inner Voice and led him right back to thinking that this was an experience to let this man know that his homosexual life is gift to be celebrated.
Yes YFC, call me a sap because my heart broke when I read that man’s story. This story educated me on the profound difficulties that a person faces today when trying to truly decipher the merciful voice of God calling the Prodigal son back home only to be snatched right back into the jaws of the father of lies by a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
YFC, This man was truly questioning his life seeking to be obedient and pleasing to God and instead he was told that this experience in the chapel is a rare occurrence that only a few specially chosen people get to experience. That sure sounded like the father of lies greasing the wheels of a vulnerable person’s pride with a schmoozing detail of empty promises. It sounded familiar so I copied this Sacred Scripture quote to show you once again that there is nothing new under the sun. Matt. 4:8) – “Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.”
YFC, On CCD you will not receive the same misguiding lies that the retreat master gave to the man who truly sought guidance from Christ in that chapel. You will always be re-directed back to hearing the fullness of truth. That IS loving one’s neighbor as ourselves.
YFC, You wrote, “I realize that the Church has a different opinion.”
Since this is a faithful Catholic website and you call yourself Catholic why are you not upholding the Wisdom of Christ’s True Church on earth? YFC, That quote is similar to the statements that dissenters make when they ask for more dialogue about having women priests. Once again, the Catholic Church has specific teachings for specific reasons. When you use the word opinion it sounds as if you think that these teachings are merely opinions that are up for grabs. If you are not interested in defending or upholding these teachings then it sounds like you are trying to create an undercurrent of dialogue that undermines Christ’s Church so you can somehow get more members of the Catholic Church to cave in to the same secular worldly type of thinking that society has caved in to. YFC, These teachings that you refer to as “opinions” are not negotiable or changeable. YFC, Rome has spoken the case is closed.
Then you wrote:”but society needs to ask itself the question, if it is unprepared to grant marriage licenses to same sex couples who are already raising children, either naturally or through adoption, how will it protect those children?”
YFC, Once again this is a *faithful* Catholic website. When you are a practicing and believing member of the Catholic Church you do not look to society for the answers to your eternal salvation or the eternal salvation of innocent children. You look to Christ’s Wisdom as taught by the Magisterium. The world is in tremendous chaos because many have told God that they are smarter than He is. Their “opinions” such as pro-abortion have become the Law of the Land. The foolish world is treating Almighty God like a vacuum cleaner. His Wise Laws are hidden in a dark broom closet until incidences such as Boston or 911 happen and then all of a sudden they are pulling God out into the limelight asking God to vacuum up the chaotic mess while they simultaneously thumb their nose at God in sheer disobedience to His Laws. YFC, How do you expect a lost society to answer the questions about protecting the God given rights of children when society has sanctioned the slaughtering of millions of unborn children? You cannot be serious, that is unless you have completely gravitated more towards secular worldly thinking than moving closer to the Wisdom of Christ and His Church. The horrible chaos that you are describing with innocent children that have been caught up in the throes of broken homes and homosexual adoption is another tragic consequence of a society that also considers God’s Laws as merely opinions that are negotiable. YFC, Did you pay attention to the fact that you are unknowingly admitting that you believe that society holds the solutions to this world’s ills? YFC, The road map to chaos started way back when Lucifer said, “I will not serve.”
Catherine –
The “Rome has spoken” argument is not persuasive. “Rome” is but one voice among many in a pluralistic society. Further, “Rome” has never ever addressed the issue of how to best care for a child who is being raised by same sex parents. If “Rome” had a good answer to this question, perhaps increasing majorities of Americans might buy the argument that marriage equality is bad for kids, but instead, Americans are rushing to embrace the idea that when kid are raised by same sex couples, they ought to have all the support that the state can muster, and that means access to marriage licenses.
And when you postulate that life is not as complex as I make it out to be. Well, actually, life can be very complex. There is no book that could even possibly hope to provide complete guidance in every situation in life. That is why we are instructed to follow our conscience. Conscience is the highest moral authority that an individual can consult. Failing to follow conscience is never acceptable. If morality consisted in merely following a magical formula for life, then conscience would be wholly unnecessary.
People who live their lives in the real world understand this. They are like smelly sheep, to borrow a phrase from Pope Francis, and we have to live our lives among them. Not every decision in life has a prescription written in the CCC. And for this, God gave us a conscience.
” Conscience is the highest moral authority that an individual can consult. ..WRONG AGAIN YFC.. it is a properly formed Catholic conscience, which you do not have….
PA, you’re describing your boyhood as one would describe a snake that slithered around, keeping just out of the way of all the human activity.
Actually, Skai, I lived in a nice neighborhood. There were several boys in the neighborhood that I hung out with. We would play tag, outdoor games and went swimming in the summer. Also we liked to play board games. We spent a lot of time outside in the summer. In the summer, my brother would get up in the morning, eat breakfast and spend the whole day outside except for meals until it got dark. He liked baseball so he was busy with that. I had a lot of nice kids in my class in school. I didn’t play a lot on the playground but liked to chat with my friends. A lot of the boys in my class smoked pot and drank a little in the last couple of years of high school but they really didn’t discuss it with me. The one priest that taught us had parties for the kids and served alcohol but I didn’t drink so I never got invited. That priest didn’t really talk to me much except for occasional sarcasm. I wasn’t sexually active as a teen but most of the kids that I knew weren’t either to the best of my knowledge. I wouldn’t say that I kept out of the way of all human activity but will say that I stayed away from trouble. I didn’t really have a lot of peer pressure.
I guess you do not what the term sarcasm means, PA
Canisius, I was being nice. Kindness never hurts.
No PA kindness can kill…..
PA, you didn’t get in fights as a boy … not that it would have mattered anyway.
No, Skai, Boys should be allowed to beat anybody up.
YFC, your effeminate weakling and counter masculine position has not bearing in reality. Boys normally fight regardless of whether they are allowed to or not. Why do you creeps insist on dumbing down nature? It is critical for the survival of the human species for boys to learn how to fight and fight well.
Skai, why would you even ASK such an obnoxious question. What kind of Catholic are you that you would ask whether a child should be allowed to beat up his parents?
Well, Skai, some boys fight and other don’t. When I was in Catholic school we were taught that fighting was a sin. We were taught that we were to respect other people’s bodies. Remember Christ said, “Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers that you do unto me.” So it you hit someone or harm them it is like you are doing it to Christ. You talk about dumbing down nature but Christ taught us a different way, He said “Love one another as I have loved you.” Did you encourage your children to fight to settle their disputes or to try and talk things out and settle things in a peaceful manner?
So, YFC, your ultimate defence rests in the state and not in the Church? Once again you show how you are trying to morph Catholicism and Caesar.
No Skai, that is not what said. Please try to follow along.
Do you actually have ANY evidence that it is homosexual bishops who covered for homosexual molesters? ANY evidence?
YFC, homosexuals cannot see their hands before their faces; everyone else can. You continue to attempt morphing Catholicism with secular government, which shows your blindness and lack of understanding. But this is the norm for homosexuals.
Yet more unfounded insults Skai. And you dodge the question. There is no evidence – NONE – that homosexual bishops covered up for homosexual molesters any more than straight bishops did. Or that homosexual bishops covered up homosexual molesters but exposed straight molesters. Instead of just saying that ANY molester and ANY ONE who covered up for them should be tossed out, you just pile anti-gay accusation upon anti-gay accusation with no evidence to back up your claims.
YFC,
While in charge Bishop Tod D Brown promised openness and transparency when he hammered his infamous Wittenburg-like Covenant with the Faithful on the door of the Cathedral. Bishop Brown publicly gave out the names of the priests who were accused of molesting but failed to include the fact that he also had been accused. During his time in office there is evidence that the Diocese of Orange tolerated and covered up perversion when Bishop Brown failed to immediately remove a priest when the diocese was notified by an employee of the diocese about graphic pictures that were seen on this priest’s computer. The Diocese stalled it’s feet on that for over two years until the FBI was notified by faithful Catholics and when the FBI intervened then action was taken and the priest was immediately removed. While he was in charge Bishop Tod D. Brown tried to cover up evil by arranging a secret oath to be signed so he could hide the fact that the Director of evangelization for the diocese of Orange was living with his homosexual partner. Oaths to hide evil are not valid. The same director of Evangelization cavalierly told relatives that Cardinal Mahony and Bishop Brown knew very well about his homosexual lifestyle and that they were fine with it. When Bishop Brown was personally told by the relative that the director of evangelization said that he (Bishop Brown) was fine with it, Bishop Brown’s face immediately turned beet red and he said, “No I’m not.” That conversation took place and then the secret oath to hide the homosexual lifestyle was arranged. No more covering up YFC.
It must not be much of a secret oath.
YFC and Anonymous,
“It must not be much of a secret oath.”
Yes, and that is exactly the point. The Diocese tried to cover up evil and their wicked scheme did not succeed.
The Gospel According to Saint Luke Chapter 12
Christ warns us against hypocrisy, the fear of the world and covetousness. He admonishes all to watch.
[1] And when great multitudes stood about him, so that they trod one upon another, he began to say to his disciples: Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. [2] For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed: nor hidden, that shall not be known. [3] For whatsoever things you have spoken in darkness, shall be published in the light: and that which you have spoken in the ear in the chambers, shall be preached on the housetops. [4] And I say to you, my friends: Be not afraid of them who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. [5] But I will shew you whom you shall fear: fear ye him, who after he hath killed, hath power to cast into hell. Yea, I say to you, fear him. Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
I’m sorry I offended you. It was just playful fun. Lighten up.
CCC: ” 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents HOMOSEXUAL ACTS as acts of GRAVE DEPRAVITY, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are INTRINSICALLY DISORDERED. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do NOT proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under NO circumstances can they be approved.”
(Caps are mine.)
Rom: 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10; 1 Tim 1:10.
Any Catholic saying anything to contrary – regardless of his or her vocation in life – is a HERETIC and SCHSIMATIC.. (CCC 2089)
well, no. You have selected certain elements of the CCC to attempt to show heresy. Why did you so conveniently delete those elements that proscribe discrimination and violence against homosexuals?
My post had nothing to do with violence against anyone – which when unprovoked is always sinful. The article has nothing to do with violence.
My post had to do with those few who continue to try to justify and/or promote a sinful lifestyle (acts). My April 29th post stands.
We must let the Catechism speak for itself. I took nothing out of context.
HERETCIS and SCHISMATICS are those Catholics who:
CCC: ” 2089
INCREDULITY is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.
HERESY is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same.
…..
SCHISM is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him. ”
“ The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved … and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. “ – Pope John Paul II. (CCC pg 5)
He meant why you didn’t post the rest of the section on Chastity and Homosexuality 2257-2259, I think.
There is nothing heretical about fighting and destroying evil
It is doubt. CCC 2088
This means that the BSA will have to abandon all its basic principles and standards, as everyone knows them, because they will offend the sensitivities of the homos that may be present at any meeting or scouting event. The wording of all the BSA manuals and magazines will have to be altered. All the normal members of the BSA will have to walk on eggshells, as they now do at some public school districts, while speaking so that any slip of the tongue or improper use of politically correct buzz words will not incur public chastisement or prosecution for possible “hate” crimes. In the leftist community the definition of “family” has changed and it is aggressively attacking any traditional use of the expression throughout society. The BSA has not only thrown in the proverbial towel but has assisted the advance of Nouveau Fascism into another area of American society.
One can hear the hymn “Onward Christian Soldiers” fading into the distance.
This may mean that the BSA will not be able to quote the Bible either.
They’re being prepared to enter the new military whose god is Caesar, or should it be spelled, “Gaysir”?
I believe the people here mean well. They have been taught that certain things are mortal sins and if you don’t repent of them, you will go to hell. Better still-there is a way to holiness; a path to heaven that all are invited to pursue. Speculations about the cause of homosexuality water down those truths. Insensitive words and harsh rejections also conceal the Truth. All things of this world are distractions from the Truth. A person who has not sinned should not be punished as if he had. There are certain moral standards that need to be upheld. Immoral behavior should be cause for exclusion from the scouts.
Anonymous, what is the name of the religion you’re designing today?
PAUL ..Excellent reminder!
PAUL says:
May 2, 2013 at 6:36 am
CCC: ” 1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching,
lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.”
CCC: ” 1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man takes little trouble to find out what is true and good,
or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.
In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits. ”
CCC: ” 1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
– by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
– by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
– by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
– by protecting evil-doers.”
We must NEVER TOLERATE Sin.
Why did you leave out 1790? It would help what you wrote make sense. And don’t forget 1793 and 1794.
I think the sick nature of what homosexuals intend with their unwanted intrusion into what for them is candyland…the BSA…is of such a sordid and unwholesome topic that I think people should move on to either acting on what they believe or leaving the subject all together. You’re being pulled down into increasingly dark and depressing rabbit warrens. This debate is going nowhere. God is light and air and green and growing things. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and turn away from the darkness.
People sin when they do their own will instead of GOD’S WILL.
Those who do their own will when it conflicts with God’s will – will NOT enter Heaven, and will burn in HELL for eternity.
– – – (Unless they repent while on earth, have a firm purpose of amendment to commit the sin no more, AND acts of reparation – especially for those things that may have caused another to sin.)
See the words of JESUS – Mt 7:21-23; and Mt 7:13-14.
We should all start by reading (or re-reading) the New Testament.
CCC: ” 1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching,
lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.”
CCC: ” 1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man takes little trouble to find out what is true and good,
or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.
In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits. ”
CCC: ” 1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
– by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
– by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
– by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
– by protecting evil-doers.”
We must NEVER TOLERATE Sin.
Why did you leave out the other paragraphs? and post 1791 after 1792?
Often it is that people’s will is the same as God’s will. We do not need Calvinism in the Church, Paul.
Mike R. is beyond delusional…it was never the Church’s “practice” to torture anyone!…furthermore the Church NEVER confiscated the personal effects of Spaniard’s who were in opposition to the Church!…If a person were opposed to Catholicism, they were SIMULTANEOUSLY committing treason against HOLY MOTHER CHURCH and the MONARCHY OF SPAIN!…as the two worked in concert, not in opposition, the Monarchy was Catholic and beholden’ to HOLY MOTHER CHURCH!…treason was punishable by death, if these individual’s threatened the security of the MONARCHY, and did not recant their heresy, treason, and obstinacy…Spain was a CATHOLIC MONARCHY, whose laws, were in conjunction with the Church’s on matters of “faith and morals”…wrong again Jon J. or Mike R. aka buddhapest!
Homosexual behavior, e.g. same sex “physical contact” is forbidden…pure and simple…we continue to have circular argument’s here…if these gays don’t approve of the Church’s teaching they should join the Episcopal’s…they have openly gay clergy, why even an Episcopalian bishop in New Hampshire lives with his “gay-boy lover”…they will fit right in…