In this emotional interview (from the Formed Book Club podcast), Father Fessio tells the story of his long-time mentor, Cardinal Henri de Lubac, S.J., whom John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Francis have all cited as a major influence. De Lubac’s cause for canonization is currently being opened by the bishops of France.
Click here for five minutes (or less) of assorted wisdom from Father Joseph Fessio, S.J., founder of Ignatius Press in San Francisco.
Father Fessio studied with Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI), Hans Urs von Balthasar, and Henri de Lubac before returning to California where he began publishing these theologians and others – including Cardinal Pell, Cardinal Sarah, novelist Michael O’Brien.
Church liberal and popular writer Andrew Greeley, S.J. called Fessio “the most powerful man in the American Church.”
My years with Cardinal Henri de Lubac
UPDATE – look for the hour-long interview of Father Fessio with Bishop Barron on Fessio’s time with de Lubac, Balthasar, Ratzinger. Released on Bishop Barron Presents yesterday.
I was interested in the heading regarding the Jesuit censorship of Cardinal Henri de Lubac. There is a nice article at https://churchlifejournal.nd.edu/articles/seven-myths-about-henri-de-lubacs-theology explaining the matter and makes a nice introduction to the Cardinal and his thought.
Like some others, de Lubac was seen as a liberal or progressive theologian prior to the Council and then, after the Council, as a “conservative.” Maybe, like some of the others, he was simply trying to be a Catholic. We need simply to be Catholics, without adjectives. As a wise priest once told me, “Some call me a ‘conservative’ and some call me a ‘liberal.’ It all depends upon who is doing the calling.”
We have some clergy today who seem to be struggling with the very idea of being a faithful Catholic.
I really enjoyed this podcast. Cardinal Henri de Lubac must have been just fascinating. And perhaps a Saint. What helps me the most with my faith, is to read classic works by Catholic spiritual authors who clearly lead the reader to greater depths of understanding the truths of our Faith, and how we can begin to apply these truths to our own spiritual lives. That is a great gift. I know that God created us for the great gift of Heaven– the Beatific Vision- in Eternity— but how do we get there? Sanctification is what we need– lots and lots of it. Right? Purification. Lead a good life, obey Christ, daily prayer, the Sacraments, doing good works, daily (or frequent) Mass, the Rosary, Adoration, reading Sacred Scripture, etc. etc. How can I be filled more and more with Christ, and live for Him– not for myself? How can I become empty of self– and filled with Christ? So there it is. It’s true– to become Christ-like– is truly a great Mystery. A great, mysterious work that God Himself does in us. He infuses supernatural graces in the Saints, that are beautiful, holy, and a great Mystery. It is beyond our understanding. It is not a natural, human thing– supernatural grace is of God, and lifts poor, human nature to its highest possible degree. It must be quite shocking, to know how poor and lowly you really are, humanly– and to become very pure, empty of self, filled with Christ, and in union with the Divine, Who is our True Spouse. The Catechism states that this complete indwelling of the Blessed Trinity is the goal of our spiritual lives — our true destiny– Heaven. I always ponder this truth every Christmas, as Baby Jesus, the King of Heaven, was born in a lowly stable– and on Palm Sunday, because of the famous Reading II from St. Paul, Philippians 2:6-11. Love that reading. But in the Vatican II era, the path to Heaven has been sadly obscured– priests, prelates and popes seem to focus mostly on being happy on earth– there seems to be little talk of Heaven. But before Vatican II, it seemed that a great many of the saints became holy, doing extreme mortifications– at times, really violent! Why? It used to be a standard practice in many religious orders– to whip yourself. Even Pope St. John Paul II beat himself regularly, with a whip that he kept in his room. And so did St. Josemaria Escriva, founder of Opus Dei. Why? No one can answer that for me. And violent, sado-masochistic-type penances were never prescribed by Christ, and are not found at all, in the Gospels, or anywhere else in the Bible. Only normal penitential practices of the day. Plus, the Jewish religion, with its famous 613 daily laws, including dietary laws– was their basic way of life. When I was in my teens, I asked our pastor about this. He replied that Christ already died to save us, and we must trust Him on that. No need for anymore crucifixions— it is already done. We are only to do just little mortifications, only those prescribed by the Church. And that’s enough. So anyway, I prayed about it, and thought our pastor was right. And all those saints? No. We all have to walk by faith, do as Christ says, and just trust Him, not knowing where He will lead us. It is all a great mystery. How wonderful it must be, to have great cardinals and Popes destined for sainthood– like Cdl. Henri de Lubac, and Pope St. John Paul II, and perhaps others— as your friends, like Fr. Fessio. What wonderful memories.
I do appreciate the fine works of the modern theologians, and appreciate those who have become Saints, or are on their way to becoming Saints. However, overall– their much-loved Vatican II– with all of their new, modernist ideas, so treasured by these clerics — in all honesty, is just terrible. It is not wonderful to read nice books of great Churchmen— and try hopelessly, to survive, in their terrible Church. And the Jesuit Order– is a nightmare. Catholic schools and universities, in the Vatican II era– are morally and spiritually dead. Instead of writing all of their great works– I wish that these big, smart intellectual clerics would first of all– fix the terrible problems in the Church. And no more fooling around. How did Pope St. John Paul II and Pope Benedict stand their awful Church? Nice books, nice papal documents — but a horrible Church. With horrible “Catholic” schools and universities. Horribly messed-up religious orders, like the Jesuits. How could they all stand it? Anyway– regardless– I did enjoy the podcast, and think that Fr. Fessio’s work is just wonderful. I have always greatly admired Fr. Fessio.
“Why? It used to be a standard practice in many religious orders– to whip yourself. Even Pope St. John Paul II beat himself regularly, with a whip that he kept in his room. And so did St. Josemaria Escriva, founder of Opus Dei. Why? No one can answer that for me. And violent, sado-masochistic-type penances were never prescribed by Christ, and are not found at all, in the Gospels, or anywhere else in the Bible.”
I am rather certain that JP II did not have violent, sado-masochistic tendencies. The use of the whip was to keep the soldier of Christ from getting too full of himself. Even a single belt across the back, self-administered, acts as a corrective of self-absorption and brings the ego down to earth. Sado-masochistic-type penances? Is wearing a hair-shirt, as St. Thomas More did, a sado-masochistic act? The saints of old would not be saints if their penances were essentially sick. As to the fact that such practices are not in the Bible, this is pertinent to Protestants with their sola scriptura, but not Catholics, who believe in the value of tradition. The experiences of the saints of old is not nullified this side of Vatican II, despite what some might say.
https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/pope-john-paul-practiced-self-mortification
I learned about Pope St. John Paul II’s self-flagellations from Bishop Barron. This was discussed when the Vatican was preparing for the Pope’s canonization. It is included in several books. I just looked, and noticed that Bishop Barron has some YouTube talks on this subject– probably from his “Word on Fire.”
Do you honestly believe that God would ask you to flagellate yourself, to expiate sin? And would you actually do it? If your parish priest revealed that he flagellates himself– as St. Josemaria Escriva used to do, with “the Discipline”-his short Spanish whip– as a parish priest– and if he recommended this practice to you– what would you say? Would you think he was mentally sick? Or a potential violent criminal? There were, historically, some various heretical groups in the Church, who believed the body to be sinful, and were near-suicidal, believing a good Christian should seek Christ, by also seeking purification–and Death– thinking that life on earth in the body, was evil. To be a bodiless spirit, in Heaven was the only thing they could accept. These different extremist heretical groups were fought against and ended, by the Catholic Church. But still, there has always been a similar tradition of these kinds of beliefs, in the Church. Not sure, but I think even some Protestant groups used to believe that the birth of a child was evil, and children were sinful, and in need of correction. Some of these awful groups thought that the Devil had possessed wayward children, and they beat them severely, to “expell the Devil.” However, the Jews did not believe this way, nor did Christ. I do not think self-flagellation expels sin and purifies you. I thought it was very tragic–and cowardly, and shamefully unChristian– that not one Vatican cardinal, and not even the pope– would meet with the poor, severely sexually abused California Catholic children, victims of the evil former Irish priest, Oliver O’Grady– who were so desperate, and traveled all the wsy to the Vatican with their families, seeking help. Despicable! Their bishop, then-Bishop Roger Mahony, would not help them. Despicable! The poor victims only got help in the secular world, with lawsuits– and O’Grady was convicted and sentenced to prison. I think that some violent religious beliefs and practices are wrong, superstitious– and ought to be illegal. They are a sign of a mentally- sick, disturbed mind, and a danger to the public— such a person might become a cold, heartless, brutal, violent psychopathic killer– or go crazy, and have to be locked up in a psychiatric ward for crazy, self-mutilating, suicidal people. Just like the cruel, extremely violent Muslim fanatic extremists– or the Aztecs, and their violent religious tortures and human sacrifices to pagan gods– which the Spanish conquerors put an end to. Long ago, I knew some devout Opus Dei members, who revealed to me that they wore spiked chain cilices as mortifications– both men and women– and these devices were made by religious orders of nuns. They recommended that I join Opus Dei, and try their religious practices, including wearing the cilice. I decided, no.
Opus Dei has both married couples (called “supernumeraries”) with families, as well as single, celibate members (called “numeraries”). Many single Opus Dei members live together in their religious residences. Perhaps some CalCatholic readers are members of Opus Dei, or are interested to become a member. You meet with an Opus Dei priest who helps you with everything.
“Do you honestly believe that God would ask you to flagellate yourself, to expiate sin? And would you actually do it?” Dear sir/madam, I made no such claim. I was actually expressing some of my own experience: when I have become high and mighty in my own eyes — a self-administered lash with a belt can bring me back to earth.
The Opus Dei members that I knew, only attended the Vatican II Mass, after Vatican II. They did not mix with Catholics interested in the old Latin Mass. I have no idea as to what St. Josemaria thought about Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Missae. He died in June, 1975, in Rome, collapsing after entering his office. They say that although he was a diabetic, the cause.of death was deemed as “natural causes.” He is the patron saint of diabetics.
A person using the phrase “Vatican II Mass” needs to have a better formation in the faith.
A start:
https://stmichaellivermore.com/blog/understanding-mass-part-1
No. The “Mass of Vatican II” or the “Mass of Pope Paul VI” is the title found in a Vatican II Missal. I was probably born a long time before you and the writer of your article. The Catholic Church has been around for over 2,000 years. Opus Dei is only one of a great many Church-related religious groups. Opus Dei was started by St. Josemaria Escriva in Madrid, Spain, in 1928. It was given full Chuch approval in 1950 by Pope Pius XII. It is not a group created in today’s post-Vatican II era. Opus Dei is formally known as the Prelature of the Holy Cross and Opus Dei.
Some Opus Dei priests say the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin. But I was told, that they don’t say the Tridentine Latin Mass.
“Novus Ordo” is not appropriate either. Just say Mass or TLM.
You are very disrespectful, kiddo. Better not talk that way to a priest or prelate– or the Pope! Best to educate yourself, so you can read good Catholic works. The New Mass is often referred to as the “Novus Ordo Missae,” and the Latin Tridentine Mass is often referred to as the “Usus Antiquior,” for starters.
On the TV news, at the annual Pride parades in SF, the reporters have had interviews with gays who practice sado-masochism. They wear so-called leather costumes, exposing a lot of skin. They have shown horrific demonstrations of one gay beating up another, with a long leather whip.
You can see the horrific bruising of the skin, as the gay is being whipped. They don’t show what happens next– but the poor victim being whipped is then violently seduced– raped. They have groups of gays at Catholic churches, who practice sado-masochism. And some are in what they call master/slave relationships, where the master (dominatrix”=) keeps the slave— like a mistress– and beats him up and rapes him. There are also gay women– lesbians– who dress up in weird costumes, and do these evil acts, so they say– but that was never shown on TV. I think both the Catholic Church and secular society should strictly outlaw such evils. I have watched very little regular TV news, the past few decades, because of the increasingly offensive leftist bias, lies and filth, and I always have to turn it off. The last few decades, since EWTN got started, I have only watched EWTN news programs and read the rest in the newspaper– or online.
You appear to know a lot about what you purport not to watch or do yourself.
I actually do not “know a lot.” But I think it is important to carefully observe, examine, and reflect on things– and keep on learning, lifelong. How about you?
It’s a good thing that Pope St. John Paul II was celibate, and not married. A woman could never marry a man who flagellates himself. A horror beyond anything she could ever imagine– your weird, self-flagellating husband, hiding wih a whip, in the bedroom. What if he really gets violent– and beats you up? A poor wife and children would be terrorized. Call the police! Rush this nutcase straight to the psychiatric hospital– shackled with heavy restraints, so he cannot harm himself.
Where is the emoji guy when you need him?
O.K.– let’s give this a try. Here are several emojis that I found. First, to ndicate expressions of a wife being extremely worried and upset– because her poor husband was discovered, whipping himself — he must be mentally sick.
🤢😫😩 And here are some emojis of him, mad at himself, he has turned into a weird, radical religious fanatic, and began flagellating himself for his sins:
😡👹😠 And here is what the guy should actually do– calm down, return to normal– use his brain, and do lots and lots of this:
🙏🙏🙏
❤❤❤
🙂☺🙂
Cheer up. God loves you. God forgives you. Through faith and prayer, you
wll find all the nswers, all the help you need.
I just expressed my own ideas on this subject. I have always respected Pope St. John Paul II. But I would not emulate his spirituality, with self-flagellation, and etc. Nor would I recommend it to Catholic kids– I would tell them strongly– “No!” Actually, as I never could have possibly known him personally, or asked him questions about his spiritual beliefs– I just let it go. Not for me. I also do not agree with Bishop Barron on this subject, nor on his Scriptural interpretations of St. Paul. But I just let that go, too. I respect Bishop Barron and his work. I like the spirituality of many others– including Pope Benedict. I also had the pleasure of meeting him briefly, once, and hearing him talk.
I do not agree with the self-flagellations in the spirituality of Pope St. John Paul II. However — I have a beautiful book called “Miracles of John Paul II,” written by a Polish author, translated into English. I have always loved that book. It relates in detail some of the many healing miracles of the Pope during his papacy for sick patients of all ages, all over the world. Some were destined by God to be healed, and to live. Others were destined by God to leave this world. Each one had a unique destiny. Pope St. John Paul II had immense healing gifts. He could read souls, and read the medical diagnosis and progression of a patient’s difficult illness, and the right outcome, as destined by God. He brought so much healing blessings and comfort, to thousands of sick people. Just like those who go to Lourdes, seeking cures for difficult and painful illnesses. This book makes an excellent gift. It may be available on Amazon, in today’s world.
I remember reading somewhere that Mother Superiors had to order some of them not to self-flagellate or limit the times and number of stokes.
A good thing is to not criticize the Church either before or after Vatican II or some Pope.
Keep your eyes on God. He knows what He is doing.
Remember-When you have done all you have been commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants; we have done what we were obliged to do.’” Luke 17:10
Also Luke 17:20-21
20
Asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he said in reply, “The coming of the kingdom of God cannot be observed,
and no one will announce, ‘Look, here it is,’ or, ‘There it is.’ For behold, the kingdom of God is among you.
“Keep your eyes on God”– that is what I have always also believed. Keep your eyes on God, far above the flawed human beings who are in ecclesiastical positions. Some are good, but some are very wicked, and will harm you and your children. Don’t be a gullible, foolish, irresponsible religious fanatic. Use good, common sense, and be careful. Keep your eyes on God.
Speaking of the Catechism, in above comments… Tucho, though he is Argentinian, ought to go and get a copy of Baltimore Catechism No. 2, in Spanish. And read the section on the Sixth Commandment, starting with Q.(Question)1281, all the way to the end, Q.1289. It is only a page and a half long. Very concise, exact, crystal-clear, intelligent teaching, that anyone could understand. No baloney. Take Q. 1287: “What should be done with immodest books and newspapers?” A.(Answer): “Immodest books and newspapers should be destroyed as soon as possible, and if we cannot destroy them ourselves we should induce their owners to do so.” There you go, Tucho. Easy. Now put it into practice. No baloney.
Oh– I just wrote a comnent about Tucho, and the Baltimore Catechism I was referring to, is No. 3. (I think I mistakenly indicated No. 2)
Many Catholics, and Catholic clerics, ought to pick up their CCC amd read the entire section on the Sixth Commandment, starting on p.619, with #2331. Read all the way to #2400, at the top of p.636. And don’t give Catholics, and everyone else, any more baloney on this subject.
I actually was thinking of a Catechism discussion, in another Comments section– the one of Jan. 23rd, entitled, “Father Illo pitches Star of the Sea school’s gala.”
I am not a fan of the liberal Modernists in all fields, of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. I know that many intellectuals enjoy them. But I always thought that they were an accomplice to the destabilization and breakdown of society and all fields of endeavor (except Math and Science) and of the Church, in the 20th century. I know that Pope St. Pius X was criticized for going too far, being almost over-reactionary to the Modernists. But the poor pope was right. There was not much that he could do about it, really, in the end. Modernism invaded everything. His successors ended up finally embracing many liberal Modernist ideas, as time went by– including the Fathers of Vatican II. Our Church has had many towering intellectuals, over the centuries. Some have been great Saints. But many of the modern era, have been too liberal, I think, and have contributed to destabilization and collapse of our religion. Destabilization and collapse of a great world religion, has an enormous effect, worldwide– either for better or for worse– in all societies. Great religious leaders should take great care, in what they do. Ideally, they should be very holy and very experienced, very wise, and very prayerful– and very careful in their decision-making. Does God show us a better way, through them and their work, in the 20th century, in our Church? Perhaps so. But their works are not all the best, for me, as well as for millions of other Catholics. I do not know what God really has in mind. But I just keep my eyes on Christ, first and foremost.
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