The following comes from Bishop Vasa’s blog on the Santa Rosa diocese website in mid-July.
In response to questions posed by a student journalist at Cardinal Newman High School, I began a dialogue to address a vision of what this Diocese can become. In coming weeks I hope to share some of these thoughts with readers, as a context for our future and our direction.
The global Church is the primary instrument for the promotion of the message and teachings of Christ. As such, Catholics are called to believe that the message of Jesus is truly “good news” in every sense – good for humankind, both spiritually and temporally. As bishop, I can speak from confidence and strength in ensuring that those Catholic teachings are taught and consistently presented throughout the entire diocese.
To that end, I seek to employ a strong catechetical model — one that starts with getting to know the faith. One of my favorite books is the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Through the years I have gone through it several times, and each time I highlight different aspects, different quotes. Sometimes I scribble in the margins, as different things strike me at different times. In my view, it is critical for our Catholic faith to remain in tune and in touch with this particular book which is fully consistent with the Scriptures, fully consistent with the Church traditions, fully consistent with Church practice with respect to the liturgy.
The role of the bishop is to be the conservator and the promoter of that faith. So, my entire focus is to make sure that all the institutions that have some relationship with me, are as fully as possible consistent with this book and with what the Church herself teaches. This is not because I am a “rigorist,” although I do not reject that claim. The reality is that I believe this book contains a truth which is good for humankind, and is consistent with who we are as people and creatures of God. It would be a disservice to water this faith down in any way, out of fear that someone might not really understand or appreciate it….
To read the entire posting, click here.
Some will be shocked when I say I agree with Bishop Vasa’s comments on the CCC. There is a difference between the CCC being the authority of the Church, and the bishops being the authorities. This has been my primary point. There are areas in the CCC which do not absolutely address some situations which I have run into. Some of these require the judgment of a bishop or a pope. The CCC was written by a bureaucracy for instruction of the Church; implicit in the CCC is the authority of the people who are in charge of the Church, namely the shepherds. This point I’ve tried to make over and over, but there are bloggers who simply believe that they themselves are the final authority who interprets the CCC. These people usually do not even know what the word “interpret” means. For these the best use of the CCC is to balance on their heads while they crawl up the Via Dolorosa.
The Pope and the Bishops in communion with him are the authority. This is called the Magisterium. This is all explained in the CCC.
Occasionally a bishop or small group of Bishops will make errors. Just a few recent examples in the USA are: ILLEGAL immigration, gun restriction, and the death penalty 100% of the time.
How do you know if an individual or small group of Bishops make an error ? – by checking the CCC for the accurate answer.
Skai, it is explained in the CCC that the Pope and those Bishops in communion with him are the ‘Magisterium’ – the Authority. Apparently you missed that when reading the CCC. Check it out. The rest of us already knew that, and couldn’t figure out your problem.
The CCC is the “go to” book for accuracy.
Individual Bishops are human and occasionally make errors. The CCC does not contain errors.
Skai, this statement of yours is hypocrisy on your part. YOU were one of the first to impugn, castigate, belittle the bishops’ and the Pope’s teaching office on issues YOU disagree with such as capital punishment.
And now you portray yourself as someone who has been arguing “over and over again” on the authority of our “shepherds.” Hypocritical and a lie!
Oh how I love it when these people have to eat crow.
I see the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH as a helpful reference book, much like the dictionary.
If you want to know what the Church teaches about abortion, for example, you can look it up in the CCC and get not only the teaching, but the background: Ecumenical Councils, Bible, Fathers of the Church.
If you want to know what a word means, you can look it up in the dictionary: definition, pronunciation, etymology.
But there’s no substitute for real, human teachers, such as our parents, catechists, bishops, and pope.
You are right Sam, it would be great if all Catholic parents, all catechists and ALL Bishops knew the faith accurately and taught it without error. In fact the CCC clearly states that Parents have the main responsibility to teach their children the Faith.
But in the USA unfortunately that is not the case because too many Catholics do not know their Faith accurately, or reject those things they personally disagree with, or try to interject their personal politics.
People can not teach accurately what they have never been taught or read accurately.
Pope Francis has asked us all (no exceptions for the literate) to meditate on Holy Scripture, study the CCC, and stay close to the Sacraments.
Praise God for Bishop Vasa! A good and true Shepherd that will care lovingly for his flock that the Lord has given him.
Bishop Vasa made a very good start in that blog. Like any good starting effort, it must result in some follow-up, actions consistent with his words, and determination that he will remain in that mindset. If he does he cannot help but make a positive difference. He deserves support, patience, obedience, and the benefit of the doubt.
If you knew the man, there would be no doubt. He was not born in the Santa Rosa diocese…he comes with a lifetime of consistent, determination of mindset…this is not a start for him…maybe just a first for the people of California. The good Bishop has been steadfast in his teaching of the faith his entire priesthood and episcopacy. Of that there is no doubt; it is the simple truth.
Ted is making excellent points.
“Like any good starting effort, it must result in some follow-up, actions consistent with his words, and determination that he will remain in that mindset. ”
God bless Bishop Vasa for writing ” I seek to employ a strong catechetical model — one that starts with getting to know the faith. One of my favorite books is the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Through the years I have gone through it several times, and each time I highlight different aspects, different quotes. Sometimes I scribble in the margins, as different things strike me at different times. In my view, it is critical for our Catholic faith to remain in tune and in touch with this particular book which is fully consistent with the Scriptures, fully consistent with the Church traditions, fully consistent with Church practice with respect to the liturgy.”
Ted was very wise when he wrote the above statement and then encouraged us to be patient. Bishop Vasa certainly did demonstrate a two year wealth of patience to the Catholic school teachers and administrators in his diocese. How wonderful it will be if these educational administrators and teachers fully embrace the importance of communicating the fullness of the truth to Catholic students. We will certainly pray for that. In the event that this generosity is not accepted or valued it would not hurt if recent faithful graduates and other faithful teachers send their resumes to his excellency. Please be sure to label your correspondence to Bishop Vasa, personal and confidential to keep it from entering the all too often used silencing remedy known as the circular file.
Thank you again Bishop Vasa, you are certainly appreciated and we will keep you in our prayers.
When the Bishop says the Catechism CONTAINS the Truth, he speaks precisely. The living Authority of the Church (Pope and bishops) is needed to proclaim what is contained in it, just like a mechanic is sometimes needed to properly interpret a car’s owner’s manual. I am surprised at his use of the term “rigorist”, which in older theological works was a term of criticism applied to Jansenism and its ilk. I’m very sure Bishop Vasa does not mean THAT. Surely “orthodox” is better.
I hope not Tom, he would fully embrace the charge of orthodoxy, not merely “not reject (the) claim”.
Brian S: I only meant to express my surprise at the term “rigorist”, which I haven’t seen since the old Noldin-Schmidt theology books. Vasa seems every inch the orthodox bishop.
I was truly beginning to wonder if ‘the Church’ had entirely deviated from ‘the Faith’. Here is at least one Bishop worthy of the title: “Shepherd.”
Would that instead of just ‘teaching’ the Catechism that more Teachers / Parishes Witness to it, and supported it as a Civil Right.
The Church and the Teaching of the Wise Moral Truth of the Magisterium is under attack as never before. Far too much is the result of what Pope Benedict the Wise referred to as a “Professional Catholic” bureaucracy, more interested in pushing their political agenda from a soft feathered nest inside the Church, than Witnessing the Whole Truth of Christ.
The attempt to stop, and after legislative passage overturn – Senate Bill #48 (by senator Mark “Kiddie Porn King” Leno, the leader of the democrat ‘Larry Brinkin Posse’ from Frisco) – Failed… Thus 48 is Now the Law in the peoples republik of Kalifornia:
***SEE: Leading California gay rights leader arrested over child porn possession https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/leading-california-gay-rights-leader-arrested-over-child-porn-possession?
https://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbrown/2012/07/09/ted_haggard_larry_brinkin_and_glaring_media_bias/page/full/
“NO SHAME” https://cal-catholic.com/wordpress/2012/06/27/no-shame/
BTW – SB 48 by State Senator Mark “Kiddie Porn King” Leno (Now de facto leader of the Larry Brinkin Posse)
https://www.humanevents.com/2006/02/03/californias-fight-over-jessicas-law/. ;
– forbids Schools to discuss Any Fact or View that “Reflects Adversely” on the agenda of MISANDRY (Separatist / Exterminationist Hatred of Men, Masculinity and Normal Heterosexuality)
– No Matter how True https://savecalifornia.com/harvey-milk-day.html
***
. I know that I and others tried to get the ‘Catholic Church / Schools’ interested in opposing this Draconian Thought Policing law, but even support in endorsing ballot petitions to bring the scam up for a vote, was virtually nonexistent. Some may have mistakenly believed that the State won’t try to force this Evil on the Church – and they are Rong.
What is known as “Kiddie Porn King Leno’s Law” now Forbids any information in the school system that “Reflects Adversely” – on whatever the Gaystapo says is ‘sacred’ to their agenda; which apparently includes the wholesale rejection of the Catechism.
This pogrom of Misandry (the Hatred of Men & Boys, Masculinity and Normal Heterosexuality) – that fuels the radical leftist/ gender feminist / homosexualist ideology behind SB #48 – pervades our government, academic and legal systems like fluoride in the water. SB #48 seeks to turn academia in to Academentia – in service of Mandatory Pandering to such Misandry, and the Catholic Church is directly targeted.
At its core SB #48 is just another part of the ongoing attempt at legislative / judicial destruction of the Basic Constitutional Rights of the People – in order to force upon them a Misandrist government mandated ‘belief’ system contrary to science, logic and reason; marketed under the fraudulent brand name of ‘tolerance’.
This bill, as befits its authors, is most hateful towards Non Homo-Anal Male Citizens, who are targeted as members of the bogeyman ‘Y-DNA BioManPigOppressor Patriarchy’ for special treatment, meaning even greater levels of neo-exterminationist Misandrist Denigration.
The government supplied set of ‘beliefs’ in this type legislation requires all Citizens, including those who know better, to flatly Deny the Scientific Basis of their Own Gender. Men must also Deny the intrinsically aberrant, degrading and Pathological nature of the types of feces focused homo-anal coprophile perversions (the ‘happy’ agenda), to be pushed on Boys in school in order to Harm All Men.
Instead of acknowledging the truth – that Gender is Inherited at Conception – and not ‘assigned’, targets of this Thought Crime Bill Must not just publicly profess such false ‘beliefs’ as are found in claims that deliberate genital mutilation changes ones gender – but Must Further Adopt these Mandatory Government Supplied ‘beliefs’ by also pretending their own gender is just a ‘perception’.
The ability to use the threat of Imprisonment for ‘contempt’ if Men fail to so demean themselves – when combined with the Official CA State Pogrom of Promoting Male Prison Rape = The ‘Lockyer Doctrine’ – For Men Only ( SEE: ‘Hi, My Name Isn’t Justice, Honey,’ and Shame on Lockyer https://www.cato.org/pubs/papers/palmer-06-06-01.html ) is used as a tool for promoting Fear of the State Thought Police. (Remember, Jailing for Contempt is the Discretion of the Judge and has no limits)
Means that bills like SB #48 are part of a mosaic of aggressive Misandrist Hatemongering that characterizes the Democrat Machine that produced it – and the CHINO Misandrists like the Pelosi-Crat Pack that push it up the public wazoo too.
The Church needs to understand and respond to this attack, if the Catechism is to avoid the fate of other politically incorrect Truths – burned in the bonfire of Misandry.
Is It True That If I Capita
Lise EveryWord, Make UpAFew Words Along The Way, and MISAPROPRIATE Others, that what – I – Write Must Be True ??
Anonymous, leave the intelligence to those who have it, and be happy in your puzzled bliss.
Or, say, Anonymous, consider reading James Joyce, a Catholic. Get back with us on how you fare with it. I got half way through Finnegan’s Wake, before I realized it was about all my friends and myself. At that point I realized I didn’t need to read it further, because I knew it already as a once familiar way of life.
Skai, would be nice if you took your own advice.
JonJ, how would you know if my advice works or not?
JonJ, if you really want to win, why don’t you humble yourself first and then begin the lessons. Of course you won’t know what the lessons are until you humble yourself first … you will not even recognize that this is the first lesson. There is no other way, JonJ.
Arguments Anonymous
One of my favorite Monty Python comedy skits is ‘The Argument Shop’. This is an office where people who would otherwise bore a street lamp to tears, go to pay others to argue with them… on a sliding scale.
The eventual exchange soon devolves in to an absurdist ‘argument’ about whether simple Contradiction / Automatic Gainsaying (whether Capitalized or not) actually constitutes valid ‘argument’, or is simply Abuse of the patron?
I particularly like the ending, wherein the vendor announces that the allotted time purchased has expired, long before a reasonable person (or one with a watch) would expect – and refuses to discuss the discrepancy because he is “not allowed to argue on my own time.”
Such surrealistic exchanges tend to mark the ‘Anonymous / Fellow’ Trolls hanging around here, who work to Disrupt (with a capital ‘d’) these type boards, and prevent useful exchange of information and ideas about topics they want Censored – BAMN – By Any Means Necessary.
This pogrom of sabotage (both blunt and quasi-sneaky) seeks to lead whatever politically inconvenient discussion is going on at the moment– over a cliff and in to personal flame wars – which they know will discourage ‘Lurkers’ reading along from continuing to follow a topic that has gone off the rails in to ‘Nyah Nyah’ land (kind of like La La land, only without the freeways).
So too with the Absurdity of ‘arguing’ with ‘Anonymous’ posters, particularly when several use the same screen name, and the same dodges. Besides I wouldn’t want to criticize Anon#1 by saying that ‘Anonymous is Clueless’ – when it is really Odd Fellow #2 (sometimes literally) who is the source for the (excrement deleted) screed.
Note Also – oh ever credulous Lurkers of the net (*you known who you are) – that although there are repeated Anonymous denunciations of the points made in my posts, they are made based on personal ‘ad-hominem’ slurs, and not any actual analysis / rebuttal of the assertions. And no ‘credentials’ are ever presented that might pierce the Anonymous veil of the safely hidden critic.
One reason for this is that I do take considerable care in documenting my sources; including links to the base stories – even if they originate from sources I may personally not endorse, but do respect their candid ‘research / scholarship’ – like Tammy Bruce, and unlike most of Academentia today.
However – some Fellows count on the gullibility of the ‘Vanilla’ (clueless suburban taxpaying voters – kept in the dark and nurtured on lamesteam media mushroom feed) – to believe that those who present no credentials or bona fides as to Why they are fit to pass judgment on the contents of my essays, are none the less accurate – despite a refusal to rebut specifics .
Talk about a ‘faith based’ system of belief… Not permitted by the Anonymous Trolls, unless it is about enforcing ‘faith’ in the infallibility of Barry (Soetoro / Marshall Davis / ObamAcorn… Whoever the guy really is) and his Age of Abomination.
McDermott, “Monty Python” … hmn.
McD, “whoever he is”? Are you saying you yourself do not know who he is? Or are you posing this question of the true identity of the prez of the usa? Are we going epistomohlogical here or pohlitical? First of all, I think Susan would go batty here trying to figure out where to find this issue in the CCC2ndEdition. Susan, try the Book of Revelation (read the whole thing 20 times and then if you don’t see where it discusses this question, simply ask). Also, read the works of Blessed John Paul II on this precise issue, namely who we are, ie who each one of us is, our actual identity. Susan, first ask yourself who you are, and then after you realize that you cannot give a perfect answer … well, then what are you going to do, Susan, when you realize you do not know who you are, totally and exactly? How are you going to find out?
“contents of my essays”: Susan, this whole spectre of education in Christ that McD is presenting will be difficult for you; you will need a tutor to help you read and understand … ask and you shall receive.
McD, “who the guy really is” may not even matter much at all. He is precursing a strong man … “strong man” in emphatic quotation marks. Because that is always the way a society crumbles … it fails to self regulate, then descends to depending on laws and then failing this it begins to disintegrate while pagan hordes are hammering at its gates and rolling with it in tryst upon tryst … all devil’s trysts … and in its death grip it begins crying out, “A strong man, a strong man, a strong man for an empire”. At this point in the history of societies, a certain darkness descends and the inevitable carnage begins. The demons celebrate with feasting and mayhem, mercilessly savaging the construct that was the greatest ever brought forth into the world. They did it to Christ and they’ll do it to His creation every time they can get away with it.
Bishop Vasa has an excellent paper on evangelization. When you click the link above and go to the Santa Rosa website, click on Bishop Vasa’s name then on the drop down menu click articles and papers.
As stated by Pope John Paul II, the CCC contains the Doctrine of the Faith. This is accurate from the Magisterium of the Church. All literate Catholics should read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”, and all Diocese Bishops should ask them to do so. There will be no unity within the Church, until Catholics read and adhere to the CCC.
(Occasionally individual Bishops make errors. The CCC is one of the best way to discern the truth – error free.)
For quotes from Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict, and Pope Francis which includes their urging us all to study the CCC and with links to the Vatican for documentation, on the net go to:
“What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”.
” There will be no unity within the Church, until Catholics read and adhere to the CCC”: Here is that legalist term, “adhere”, once again. A. It is not the CCC that unites the Church. B. “Adhere” is a cheap replacement for “follow Christ”. C. Most Catholics cannot read well enough to understand what the CCC is saying in its bureaucratic-ese. D. Authority is vested in popes, not in books.
Skai is “Anonymous” in this case, 7:25 am.
People who do not KNOW Christ, can not follow Christ.
The CREED is fully explained in the CCC, so that one may know Christ.
No home should be without a Catholic Bible and the CCC.
Skai, since you have trouble interpreting the importance of the CCC which was promulgated via “Apostolic Authority” we can not trust you to accurately interpret the Doctors of the Church or anything else.
Susan, you are what is called a “sentimental” Cahtolic. You sit around and “believe”, instead of actually living as a Catholic. As for you issue of trust, that is your business, not mine. Humility would help you a great deal, Susan, especially in your evident efforts to read and understand what you are reading. If you really desire to read sufficiently, then you must put in the effort. If you cannot stand the criticism, then you will never learn very much or very well.
Also, Susan, you give away your dearth of credibility when you mumble something about a trust issue you have with me … This implies that you are looking for someone to tell you what to believe. You probably do not even understand the problem with this. You probably do not even see that there is a problem. A. I have not claimed to be a teacher of Catholicism (which I have to repeat every once in a while). B. I am not asking you to trust me. C. I am proposing various dilemmas that Catholicism is called to deal with. D. I have little sympathy for anyone who is stuck on the basic requirements of God’s law. Why don’t you instead try to follow Jesus, rather than worry yourself over the minutia found in the CCC. Go grab someone by the shirt and tell them that Jesus loves them and they need to give up their evil ways. Then come back and talk about the CCC.
“Skai, since you have trouble interpreting the importance of the CCC which was promulgated via “Apostolic Authority”: Susan, this statement is a flat out lie. Sleep well.
Skai – again it is you who are not informed, and you continue to attack others who are informed. The CCC was promulgated by Pope John Paul II through his “Apostolic Authority”.
QUOTE – – – “ The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved … and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority,
is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine,
attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium.
I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. “ – – – UNQUOTE – Pope John Paul II. (CCC page 5)
QUOTE – – – “….the Catechism has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians,
and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine,
enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates , lives, and prays in her daily life.” – – – UNQUOTE – Pope John Paul II (CCC page xiv)
Susan I am again disturbed by your comments and some others here against Skai. I will have to pray for you and others. From reading past comments he had on the doctors of the church, they were not heretical at all. He also has his personal opinion on such things but is usually within approved free thinking that the church allows. On moral issues, he is not sinning.
I am reminded a few years back a friend, she use to be my friend, but our friendship ended due to her bad will and dishonesty but that is the not the point, I recall wanting to read the bible some more and she would get angry about that because she would say that it was wrong to read the Bible without a priest being present to help interpret it…wow I couldn’t believe my ears….never in my life have I heard such a thing. She treated it as if we were going to hell if one did that. It was shocking to say the least. Praise God that I was well grounded in my faith to know the difference.
Many times the CCC is quoted in this site. No one has complained that they can not understand what is printed.
All literate persons over age 16 can read and understand the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
Those who try to discourage people from reading the CCC not only disobey our last 3 Popes (including Pope Francis), but must have ulterior motives.
Perhaps they are schismatics, or heretics, or not even Catholic.
The deposit of faith is not in any book, it is in the Mystical Body of Christ.
The filth in the Church has been trying to bury the CCC since it first came out some 20 years ago. Right, Skai?
juerg, would you ever once in a while get over your vanity fits and actually read what I post. I do not oppose the CCC. What I have always opposed is it being turned into an idol, as if it were the object of worship, as if it in itself were a living magisterium, a god. As Bp Vasa points out and as the Popes have pointed out, it is useful for studying the Catholic religion.
Moreover, juerg: I have indeed read much of the CCC. I refer to it from time to time. But I find that it is bureaucratic in style, and does not fully explain some important issues. I prefer many of the resources referred to by the CCC, as they are foundational writings by Doctors of the Church or Apostles, and not committee members.
The CCC is from the Magisterium of the Church – not committee members.
Skai, you always seem to have a problem with the Magisterium – which is our Pope and Bishops in communion with him.
Susan, no, it is you who have a problem with reading. I never said the CCC is not from the Magisterium. If you prefer a state of confusion over a state of clarity of mind, then that is your choice. And to accuse me of having a problem with the Magisterium only makes you look like a fool.
Skai, not one person has ever tried to turn any book including the Bible or the CCC into an idol. Only you Skai, have that in your head amd you print it frequently. And by your writings you discourage people from reading it. – And I do not think you are stupid enough not to recognize it.
God bless Bishop Vasa. How many other Bishops publically speak about the CCC – which may encourage Catholics and others to read/study it?
Our last 3 Popes have done so.
How many other Bishops encourage all literate Catholics to read the CCC so they will know their Faith accurately and completely?
Not many of us have access to our Diocese Bishop on a frequent and regular basis so that he can teach us everything that is in the CCC. This would be a physical impossibility, and many Parish Priests can not physically teach everything in the CCC either.
Many Parents, and other literate persons do not attend or have time to attend any catechesis classes on the CCC that might be offered at their Parish. But we all can find time to read the Bible and the CCC at home. It’s merely a matter of priorities, and can be a matter of Heaven or Hell. If you can read this post, there is no excuse for ignorance, scandal, sacrilege, heresy, schism or relativism.
The site: “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”
https://whatcatholicsreallybelieve.com
is a good introduction to the CCC that can be shared with others – both Catholics and non-Catholics so that all may know the TRUTH of what the Catholic Faith teaches.
Pope John Paul II made it very clear that the CCC is for everyone – not just Catholics – so that ALL may know the truth. Go to the web site for more info.
Reply & FYI to Mike “Not many of us have access to our Diocese Bishop on a frequent and regular basis so that he can teach us everything that is in the CCC. This would be a physical impossibility,”
My friend who lives in Oregon, (where Bishop Vasa was just prior to coming to Santa Rosa) says that as Bishop, Bishop Vasa spent one evening a week for several years teaching to anyone who wanted to show up. He covered many encyclicals, one of his favorite books and spent over a year teaching the CCC line by line. It is possible to do, a bishop can be accessible and there is at least one bishop who would do such a thing: Bishop Vasa!
alice, many Catholics do not have the time such as both parents working and then with home and child responsibilities or are within many miles of their Diocese Bishop. They do not have “direct access” to their Bishop.
That being said, Bishop Vasa is wonderful, and makes himself more accessible than most American Bishops.
When people can not attend classes, in order to accurately teach their children and others the Faith, they must read the CCC. The most recent generations have not accurately been taught the Faith.
Many; my response was meant to inform those in the Santa Rosa Diocese that Bishop Vasa has always emphasized teaching and has always had an open door policy to anyone who wishes to visit him. “Direct access” even given children and being miles from the chancery office does not prevent one from planning and visiting this holy man. Most of us do so for medical appts, sports events, concerts or other things…there are few folks in the Santa Rosa Diocese who could not make arrangements to speak directly with Bishop Vasa if they so wished – and he would welcome it! (bring the kids, he loves them!)
For those who are completely home-bound he answers his own email and will speak with you if you call him. He would be the first to tell you to study the CCC and know that you are free ask him directly if you have any questions.
Since this was an article about Bishop Vasa, my comments are about him. I realize many of you have bishops who are not teachers, who are not available and who do not respond directly. We need to pray that those bishops remember their primary duty to their flock is to teach and shepherd. I pray every day for God to grant blessing upon Bishop Vasa so that he can continue as he has always done; to do the work God asks of him.
Many writes: “alice, many Catholics do not have the time such as both parents working and then with home and child responsibilities .”
Many, That statement is not accurate. Please let me help you. It is a matter of choosing *priorities.* It is misleading to infer or think that a working mother who stays at home is any less busy than a mother who is working outside the home. I recognize that you did not specifically say that but your excuse implies that and it is not a good excuse. It is also possible for working parents to MAKE the time to teach their own children. I have many friends who are working mothers and they freely admit with a knowing smile that it MORE work to stay at home. I am not saying that all women or mothers DO want to work outside the home either but some choose this when they do not have to. I have a close friend who is a working single mother who teaches many children the Catechism. The children who can recite their prayers have practiced one bedtime prayer at a time. There are five and six year old children who can recite the Apostles Creed. Learning one question per week on the way to the soccer field can also be fun. Whoever learns it first gets to have an ice cream cone on the way home from the game or another type of positive fun reward for learning their questions and answers. Children love to learn when it is made interesting and the children take their sensory cues from their mom, dad, grandma or grandpa. This is how they sense the priorities. They parents and grandparents teach it.
The workplace brings a $$ paycheck where the home involves not only the physical and mental work, it also involves the personally vested interest in each individual child spiritually, emotionally and psychologically speaking as well as the most important vested interest of teaching your children by your own good example of what a Catholic parent is or is not. That is the hardest and most important work. There really is no excuse for not having time. We would never say there is no time to feed our children food because both parents are working. Another helpful option is a family rosary which takes 15 or 20 minutes and the mysteries of the rosary span the teachings of Christ’s entire life. You can purchase pictures of the mysteries of the rosary which will visually teach. One Catechism question per night could wield some very well educated Catholic children. It is no coincidence that when our parish priest would send out a pair of Legion of Mary workers to someones home because a relative had called and asked the priest to please go out and visit their child who is perhaps living in sin or dying and been away from the faith, the person being visited always tenderly remembered their grandmother or parents and family saying the rosary. This happened every time. Generosity to God and his Blessed Mother is never forgotten, even forty or 50 years later. These are the teachings that brought many children who become adults back to their Catholic faith.
Catherine, there is NO excuse for not reading the Bible and the CCC at home. PERIOD.
There can be legitimate excuses for not attending classes at your Parish or somewhere else within the miles of your Diocese on a regular basis – Babysitter issues, cost of babysitters, time, distance, home obligations, etc., etc. etc.
Example of slothfully lame excuse: “many Catholics do not have the time such as both parents working and then with home and child responsibilities”: Hogwash, teach and discipline your children instead of letting them lead you around.
You can not teach others what you do not know. That is why reading the Bible and CCC at home are critical.
Catechesis in the USA has been rotten over the last 40 to 50 years.
“The CCC does not contain errors.” I should hope not, but is this an infallible doctrine now?
Caroline, please go to the recommended web site: “What Catholics REALLY Believe Source”. You will get your answer directly from our last 3 Popes with documentation where you can find their quotes.
In short the answer is “yes” all Catholics must adhere to the teachings printed in the CCC.
The “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” which was first printed in the USA in March 2000, is directly from the Magisterium of the Church. (It has a dark green cover in the USA.).
It is not a local catechism written by the USCCB, or any other organization. The Holy See owns the copyright to the CCC.
“ The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved … and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. “ – Pope John Paul II. (CCC page 5)
” is a statement”. Shouldn’t we take note that the CCC, according to Bl John Paul II, is “a” statement? He says it is a good reference for teaching Catholicism. This Blessed, soon to be canonized, is not calling the CCC the only means of teaching the faith, but is merely saying it is sufficient. But Catholics need to understand that it is a man who is saying that a book is ok for teaching … it is not a book saying a man is ok to teach. The man consecrates the book, not the other way around.
Due to lousy catechesis in the USA, – the Bible and CCC are complete and the best we’ve got.
Dave V yes that is true too…just remember that the CCC states that it is a reference to help one in their faith journey, but it also states that there are other approved references/tools that the church also approved….yes there are ….those are also excellent tools that one can read and if they have more questions as they are souls searching, they can also look in the CCC and the Bible…but I always suggest, read the Bible and see what the church says as well …they both go together, hand in hand.
Technically it is a heretical statement to say that Catholics must “adhere” to the CCC. It is an act of idol worship to get carried away too far with this exaltation of the CCC. In fact the CCC itself does not say all Catholics have to adhere to it. This “adhering” business is a rumor that people are passing around to make themselves look good.
Ok Skai, since Pope John Paul II clearly stated that the CCC contains the “Doctrine of the Faith” – you can choose not to adhere to the teachings of the Church within the CCC. – And you can encourage others to follow your lead. You will pay for it in eternity, and it won’t be fun.
Many and others I am really concerned on the attacks you have on Skai. Clearly you do not get what he is conveying…. He is not saying not to read the CCC but remember that the CCC has references to many of other sources on teachings of the church that clearly help others a good growth in their faith as Catholics. You just made a judgement on his soul that only pertains to our Lord, the church has never taught that if you don’t read the CCC that your soul is in danger. Be careful there is a fine line to that accusation.
SKAI, when people object to the teachings of the Church in the CCC they usually have some obstinate sin they are trying to justify.
An examination of conscience is probably in order.
Yes, you must adhere to the “Doctrine of the Faith”. Pope John Paul II, stated the CCC contains the “Doctrine of the Faith”.
There are some other catechisms in the USA that are not complete, and do contain error.
Unfortunately in the USA at this time in history the Bible and CCC are more important than ever – because we can not be certain that some Cardinals and some Bishops in the USA truly or still believe in the “REAL PRESENCE”.
This statement in based upon the fact that some (but not all) of our Church leaders do not care about the mortal sin of SACRILEGE against the Body and Blood of our Lord.
They do not enforce Canon 915 or 1899. Therefore we can only assume that they do not believe or do not care.
Just a few in the USA – Gov. Cuomo, Biden, Pelosi, Gov. Brown, Schwartzeneger, etc, etc, etc.
These same Cardinals or Bishops do not publically teach all literate persons to read the CCC, but rather some watered down catechism instead. They will not teach what they do not practice.
Therefore in some Diocese, Catholics must rely on the Bible and “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” or they will not accurately and completely know their Faith. And they will not be able to accurately and completely pass it on to others.
The Year of Faith is 3/4 over. The Holy See approved a plenary indulgence which includes the CCC for the Year of Faith only.
What has your own Diocese Bishop done (or your Pastor done) regarding this? Their action or inaction will tell much, with no further words needed.
All the bishops and Cardinals believe in the Real Presence. It is scandal for you to say that. I am sorry that you are disappointed in their pastoral care of pro-choice politicians. They have all been told not to approach the Sacraments.
Anonymous writes: “All the bishops and Cardinals believe in the Real Presence.”
Is that why Our Lady of Akita said that they were a compromising thorn in the side of Christ instead of a thorn in the hearts and minds of a pagan world?
not “pro-choice”…”pro-abortion.”
Anonymous, you need to immediately go in to see an ER doctor before you die of naiivite’.
Anony that has to be a huge misrepresentation….one can not possibly really know what is deep in their hearts…but I guess to give you credit we can give them the benefit of the doubt…
I was also taught that one lives how he believes….if one truly believes in the real presence….one would hope that it would show in their actions as well.
Anonymous, you can not prove that all Catholic politicians who support abortion or same-sex marriage in their legislative public voting have been told not to receive Holy Communion or been excommunicated. Gov. Cuomo and Gov. Brown are two examples of those who have not been told, and continue to receive Holy Communion. They remain obstinate in their support for abortion, same-sex marriage (sodomy), etc.
In the case of PUBLIC SCANDAL (such as Pelosi and others even though they may have been told) the Diocese Bishop has the responsibility to make public the Canon penalty so that others will not follow them or make the assumptions that their sins are OK.
Read your Code of Canon Law. #915 & #1899. Also read St. Paul – 1 Cor 5:9-13. Also read the paragraphs in the CCC on ‘scandal’.
Any Cardinal or Bishop who does not enforce Canons 915 and 1899 within his own Diocese, by his OMMISSION – participates in the sins of Sacrilege and Scandal. Each Diocese Bishop MUST instruct his Priests that anyone who is publically obstinate in mortal sin must not be permitted to receive Holy Communion.
(In fairness to Priests, they are bound by their vow of obedience to their Diocese Bishop, or head of their Order, and may have to seek relief from the Vatican. Let’s remember the good Priest who was chastised by the Cardinal in the Washington DC Diocese for not giving Holy Communion to an admitted non-Catholic lesbian and her partner at a relative’s funeral).
Actions speak louder than words.
We know what Bishops believe and do not believe by their own individual actions – and this includes their behavior toward the REAL PRESENCE – regarding Sacrilege.
One can surmise that Bishops who do not believe in the REAL PRESENCE would not care about SACRILEGE, and therefore would not use the tools provided by the Church (Code of Canon Law) to insure that it does not happen within his own Diocese.
Cardinal Raymond Burke has written extensively to all US Bishops about the REAL PRESENCE, SACRILEGE and SCANDAL.
Search the internet for his writings.
Anonymous, on the internet please read: “The Discipline Regarding the Denial of Holy Communion to Those Obstinately Persevering in Manifest Grave Sin” by (Cardinal) R.L. Burke.
It was written to all US Bishops but specifically who allow those who knowingly
allow SACRILEGE against the REAL PRESENCE.
https://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/holycom/denial.htm
Homely Ghost Stories
One of the finest homilies I ever experienced was full and complete rendition of the story of ‘The Cross Eyed Bear and the Homely Ghost’ – given by a vacation visiting Priest at a parish years ago.
He had obviously polished the tale to perfection, and his timing and delivery were spot on. I could not repeat the whole (but would love to find a copy) – but as with great Homilies, the Central Message got through – and it was fundamentally about Catechism.
For his homily Father had invoked the ‘mondagreen’ style of Biblical interpretation, often favored by grade school students who couldn’t tell a talent of wheat from suzi chaff-stick, let alone separate it.
Mind – it is not their fault, as much of the Bible is written in Agrarian terms that are seldom explained to young students – including in grade schoolers attending mass. Hence – Misinterpretations tend to creep in to the ‘understanding’ in strange and mysterious linguistic manners.
The term ‘mondagreen’ dates back to ole ‘3-Dot Cain’, as in former Frisco Chronicle / ‘Crock-a-Bull’ columnist Herb Cain, whose trademark was the three dot ellipsis… And it stands for a Mis-Heard / Interpreted Word or Term. In the specific, a mondagreen’ comes from an Auld Ballad about some Scotsman who got struck down (or drunk) and – ‘they laid him on the green.’ (hopefully to sleep it off). Ahem.
Other favorites, such as ‘Tarzan Strikes For Ever’ (with apologies to JP Souza) have amused linguists for generations and one could go on for a while – but that’s Not a Cross Eyed Bear. Ahem.
The Point (yeah, it took a while, but isn’t getting there half the education?) being – that the ‘Catechism’ is more than just words in a book, and the Church uses all manner of tools to convey the Whole Truth, including public pageantry and display of religious art.
But if those doing the formation of youngsters fail to properly translate and explain Christianity, without the foundations of understanding the language and culture at the time of Jesus and the Disciples that followed, the Meaning behind the Message can get lost.
I think that too many young people have not been formed in the Language and Forensics needed to Parse the terms of the Bible, thrown at them as if they are part of a shared common knowledge of a shared Agrarian world.
Of course the other side of the coin are the ‘Christian Comic Books’ sometimes used in school – which feature the usual cast of characters, including:
Jesus Himself, nattily dressed in a striped bathrobe and sandals with a well trimmed full beard – with a background of Sand – and palms and Sand and pyramids and Sand and tents made out of the same striped cloth as the bathrobe, and Sand.
Surrounding the Man himself, are equally well-dressed and groomed Children, Angels, Cherubs, leprechauns, camels, unicorns, jugglers on unicycles… All in happy face harmony and good feeling humor, and not a shred of incongruity on showing on their smiling faces. Together they deliver a pithy platitude that sort of sounds like a psalm, on Sesame street, if you close your eyes – and ears. Ahem.
Yes – the Catechism is vitally important, but only as a Medium – and it is still up to the rest of Us to make sure that the Message makes it through, regardless of all the static it generates…
Even if we have to resort to such underhanded practices as cheap Christian Humor and bad ecclesiastical puns, no matter whose homely ghost gets starched by the cross eyed bear running the Church laundry.
“as much of the Bible is written in Agrarian terms”: I wanted to understand badly enough that I went out to the rural areas for years to find out how to read all that agrarian stuff in the Bible.
” much of the Bible is written in Agrarian terms”: I wanted to understand badly enough that I went out to the rural areas for years to find out how to read all that agrarian stuff in the Bible.” Skai
Ahhh Yesss… Nothing a good walkabout in the desert won’t cure. Except for the part about milk coming from the grocery store, and cows just being part of the marketing campaign – some of which has to be seen to be believed.
Having some experience at teaching the young, I believe it pays to never ever assume that they understand the process of Separating Wheat from Chaff, let alone straw fueling unquenchable fires; and to always provide the background for the Concept – before distinguishing the analogy.
Also – Unless one is talking about God – Never say Always, and Always avoid saying Never – as they are both doors to infinite distraction from important stuff – like the multiplication table… Because as Galileo said:
“Mathematics is the language with which God has written the Universe.”
As for Skai – what went you in to the desert to find – a man clothed in a fine raincoat?
“What went you into the desert to find?” Answer: Peace and quiet, alone-ness, camping with small party, shooting at rocks, proving off road capability of vehicles, wilderness praying, finding interesting wildlife, locating remote water supplies, exploring old mines and homesteads, hunting chukar and quail, experiencing not having a home or building or supply facility nearby, testing CB radios, etc. As for the milk and cows: Scooping a half gallon of cream off the top of 1100 gallons of milk in a giant tank was fun, having a cow sneak up behind me and lick my neck was startling, milking goats and making cheese from their milk was an adventure, picking a gallon of Himalayan Blackberries in 45 minutes and eating them was exciting. Eating wild game and home raised beef can’t be beat. Eating corn right off the stalk can be a real sweet deal. Meeting isolated poor people is a challenge. Hitching a ride for a hundred miles in the back of an old pickup truck with another hitchhiker, a Native American returning home after working in the apple orchards of Washington state was a conversational adventure. Finding fresh cat tracks as big as the front of my boots several times and places, especially at first light gets the pulse accelerating a bit. Challenging a meth cook house watchman in the desert to stop shooting his ak47 in the direction of atv, dirt bike, and jeep trail crossroads is mind taxing, but perhaps necessary when the richochettes whiz overhead. Wondering how miners and their mules of a century ago managed to find all the gold and gems and minerals out there and clean it out right before I showed up is food for thought. Wondering why many drivers use gps gadgets to direct them where to drive when on desert roads … I consider this to be extremely foolhardy. If you go to the desert take water, lots of water, it is your first priority, you will need more than you can imagine … to drink and poor on your head and neck. The “fine raiment” in the desert is in fact the sunrise and the sunset.
Mathematics is indeed a language, and can be used to “spell” creature created languages, even the songs of birds and the sounds of mammals. Don’t tell me you’ve never tried to engage an animal in conversation? But no doubt most city folk actually believe the idea that animals cannot think and have no languages … I’ve heard animals sing symphonies that would make Beethoven or Mozart look like wannabees.
“…Don’t tell me you’ve never tried to engage an animal in conversation?”
I have a Yellow Lab and he is actually pretty much immune to insult by this stage (age 9), although some forms of mockery can still touch a nerve… Woof
Whether it be reminding him that Poodles are smarter, or that his breath smells like stale kibble – he pretty much remains nonchalant about the whole thing, unless one mentions a “puppy walk” – which has ben known to summon him like the wind to do the dance.
As for Mathematics – That is a question I have long pondered, whether it is a Human Invented language – or a Discovery of something that exists independent of the human mind? I recently read a book “Is God a Mathematician?” that discussed some of this, but unfortunately spent longer on telling math stories about Newton and pals than God.
I also read an article recently about the nature of “Nothing” – whether it is simply a lack of matter, including the Dark stuff – or an Absence of something more (including rules of mathematics & physics) fundamental.
Although they did not discuss God as being missing from Nothing, I though that it certainly would put a damper on the concept of Nothing, to have a very Living God found there too. Hence i assert that it is not for Nothing that we also seek God beyond mere science. Ahem.
I still recall a science fiction story titled “The Absolute at Large” – which postulated that all matter is made up of a ‘God particle’ (not the Boson – different particle, Same God) bound up with matter. An inventor had developed a ‘karborator’ that completely used all the matter – and released God as a ‘Divine Element’ in to nature.
Naturally, they had a war using ‘divine intervention’ as a weapon, but the handling of the concept of the presence of God as an element in all matter available like electricity to do the bidding of anyone who used the machine (although technically blasphemous – if asserted as other than a work of fiction designed to help our understanding of the Absolute) – and the corresponding nature of Nothing, still give me the willies late at night. Just a bit.
Extremely well said, McD: “the Catechism is vitally important, but only as a Medium”.
“shooting at rocks…”
And how were the rocks armed, just to make it fair…
With Desert Dry Wry Humor perhaps?
Yes, McD, rocks make good targets for “plinking”. This way one does not damage the environment, by shooting at plants or animals. Of course during the appropriate hunting season some desert dwelling game birds can be “harvested” and put on the barbie. Yes, a lot of lead and some brass and steel casings are left by some plinkers but so far no wildlife biologists have issued a caution on this as a danger to fauna in desert areas. Also, typically there are scattered venues where people plink … recognizable by heaps of old computers, washing machines, sewing machines, dolls, lawnmowers, etc.
Oops, missed that one, McD … “How are the rocks armed”? They often have thick skin, impervious to projectiles hurtling through space and time which strike them. But, McD, I think I’m decoding your message here: Most shooting is done by people who have defence in mind. However, much shooting is done by people who obtain food this way. Hunting and war are two different things, two different mindsets. Natural predators need to remain uninjured or starve to death, so they do not risk death. Man, in defence, will risk death; man, in assault, will risk death: These for two different reasons. A hunter will not risk much for fear of his family starving; a warrior will risk everything to protect his family.
I enjoy this great wisdom from very words of a wonderful Bishop Fulton Sheen. It really got me thinking and it helped me understand more of our true Catholicism:
“Plato held that perfect wisdom has four parts, namely, wisdom, the principle of doing things right: justice, the principle of doing things equitably in public and private: fortitude, the principle of not flying from danger but meeting it and overcoming it: temperance, the principle of subduing evil desires and living moderately.” — Fulton J. Sheen, Oct 1962.
Let us all help Bishop Vasa, our last 3 Popes, and other good Bishops in spreading the word to all – Catholics and non-Catholics alike.
At home instead of spending hours in front of the TV or on the computer or other means of social entertainment –
Read the: Bible; “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”; Code of Canon Law; and GIRM.
God bless our Popes and our good Bishops and good Priests.
Let us all encourage them to encouraging others. Let us strongly support them in matters of Faith and Morals when they are in full compliance with Church teaching.
Let us encourage Bishops to uphold Canon 915 and 1899 to slow – Sacrilege, Scandal, Heresy, Schism and relativism within our Church.
God bless Bishop Vasa in publically referring to the CCC frequently. If more Bishops did this, hopefully they would not stray from true Church teaching.
If I read the cathecism from front to back and the Bible front to back, then what? If I simply believe what I read and don’t act upon it, I am not leading a trully Catholic life. We will be judged not by what we read, but by how we behaved. Have we fed the hungry, clothed the naked, etc.? Have we repented our sins? And the list goes on. No Catholic needs to read a book of canon law to be Christ like. No Catholic needs to read the GRIM, a reference book about liturgy. We need to love others as God loves us, we need to be good neighbors to our fellow humans, etc.. Use the reference books to learn what to do, and then go do it!
Bob One brings up very good points to think about. In the CCC it does say that it is only to be a reference guide and not to be replacing already approved texts. On page 5 or 6 it says this : This catechism is not intended to replace the local catechisms duly approved by the ecclesiastical authorities,
the diocesan Bishops and the Episcopal Conferences, especially if they have been approved by the Apostolic
See.
But to correct the error of many who have embraced secular standards then we can use these tools to point out the obvious. I can understand why the CCC would be a reference to help explain the faith but I have noticed that even when we read the writings of St. Thomas Aquinus and even St. Augustine etc…..that their writings are more forward and to the point, especially when they have been simplified for the reader to understand. The CCC has excellent references but it is not a “whole” as the Faith is and on some subjects it is short and sometimes the English language translation can leave the reader more confused or concerned. Where as earlier writings from church doctors, they were more direct on the seriousness of certain sins. The CCC can be vague on some things or not direct.
Unfortunately the English language has been cheapen that the way people speak today or express themselves, ( I know because I am a byproduct of these times) they may need a good holy and devout pastor to teach it in the understanding of already approved past books( also in Mass that is a wonderful opportunity for our Priests to do teach well during the homily) …..especially the earlier writings of saints and more from the Holy Word of God, Holy scriptures.
Bob one in answer to what you just posted, I can understand your point of view but before we can help our poor brethren, we must be concerned with our salvation and seek God and His graces…or else we may be endangering our soul and others by the scandals we have ultimately embraced due to not being open to correcting those errors. If mankind reads novels, comic books, newspapers, they read up on what is up on the web…then they too can visit the opportunity to enrich their spiritual being with these precious tools/references from our faith. Only pride will convince us why we shouldn’t even visit there.
We have so many distractions today that we have lost sight of what truly matters. Confusion is now on the main menu. An understanding to faith tools/reference is good but remembering that the faith is much deeper….for some it comes easy but for many it does not. Even those who detest our Lord can serve and help the poor but how much richer are we when we serve the real poor in how God has asked us too…to truly understand His ways is far more richer.
Bob one also I am posting this quote from Fulton Sheen, which demonstrates the concerns many have, I hope you don’t consider this as insinuating on your person, for it is not to insult you, not at all but to help explain why we feel that certain political parties are not really for the poor (since some consider free abortions for the poor a good thing).
“Judas became the spokesman of all those who through the centuries would protest the ornamentation of the Christian cult and would feel that, when the best of gold and jewels were given to the God Who made them, there was some slight made to the poor – not because they were interested in the poor, but because they were envious of that wealth.”
― Fulton J. Sheen, Life of Christ
Nice thoughts Abaca. I was taught by a very orthodox group of nuns and priests back in the fortys and fifties. One of the things they taught was that we must practice out faith in addition to going to mass, etc. They taught me that when you see a homeless person begging for a little money, you are having an encounter with Jesus. When people show up at the feeding stations, you are seeing the face of God. When you see the sick in the slums of the city, you are meeting God. Do what He tells us to do. Be merciful. Feed them, clothe them, etc.. I wish I could do it more than I do, but for a number of reasons I’m a bit of slacker. Trying to save my own soul can’t be done by reading and believing, in my opinion. It must be done by actively living my faith. I wish I had done it during my working years, but othere things got in the way. Not a good reason, but…
Bob One yes I was also taught that, we even had a wonderful nun who would take us to Tijuana to the orphanages, it was because of her too that I later on visited as well even after I got married, we went to one that had many orphan babies. We went to give them support, bring toys and food. They had freezers to store most of the food to last them throughout the year. Bob one it is heartbreaking, I remember walking in the room with all the cribs where little ones, many cried out because they wanted to be held. And when you held them and placed them back to their cribs, they cried they wanted to be held longer .
I understand we do see the face of Jesus but we can also see Jesus in the wealthy that are poor in spirit as well, hard to believe but that is what helps us to remember to pray for even the wealthy rich who have become godless.
Yes but I pray that you are not missing the point to my original comments…God bless you and I will keep you in my prayers. Pray for me as well. Thank you in advance.
Bob one I just noticed that you said that you were taught in the 40’s and 50’s. You are an elder( I didn’t exist and neither did my mum except for the 50’s when my mum was born but I wasn’t created yet) …I am sorry if I have offended you in any way, that is not my intention, I was always taught to respect my elders and I do try but you have to agree that we sometimes don’t see eye to eye on some moral issues. You are an elder and I look to our elders to hand down the faith to us but I have been exposed lately to elders who actually sometimes cause scandal or more confusion. It’s been hard for me to soul search while having to discern if some of the elders have my best interest at heart when it comes to salvation issues. But I hold hope and pray for you, I hope you keep me in your prayers as well. Pax Christi
Bob One, you forgot what Jesus said is number one: Worship God with your whole heart, whole mind, whole soul, all your strength. Jesus also says, “Seek first the Kingdom of God and all else shall be added thereunto”. This is not only what makes the Catholic Catholic, Bob One, but is the primary thing required: because, even the pagans, the Jews, the Muslims, etc often love their neighbors as theirselves. The works you mention are what are known as “social justice” actions and are often hijacked by ant-Catholics such as the Marxist Jesuits. You did skim over worship, but in a demeaning manner, Bob One. It is rhetoric such as you exhibit in the post at question which brings accusations that you are not Catholic other than in name only.
Bob One and Abeca Christian were engaging in a rare volley of thoughtful conversation. It’s too bad, Skai, that once again you have to insert yourself with your venomous poison in the form of overly zealous critique, assuming as you always do that a few sentences comprise the entire world view of the person writing.
Let’s let this thoughtful discussion play out before we stomp it out with such harsh critiques, shall we?
YFC, obviously you gays prefer to gloss over the reality in what people say, where they’re coming from … you seem not only devoid of analysis, but hostile to it. You b one go ‘long to git along character.
Skai I stand by my comments. I’m enjoying the conversation between bob one and able a Christian. Please stop trying to shut it down by insulting bobs character, and now mine. You always result to personal attacks. Please try to conduct yourself more civilly.
So the corporate and spiritual works of mercy are something hijacked by marxists? Skai, sometimes you just throw grenades for no real reason. By the way, who gave you the right to pronounce who was and was not a “real” Catholic. I thought my Baptism 75 years ago pretty well started that process. Let’s get off the judgemental band wagon, and try to make some useful comments for a change. Did you have lunch today? You really are getting grumpy.
Bob One why such a prideful response to Skai? After all you and Skai have been posting here for a while now, I’m sure Skai made a reasonable comment due to how you commented in the past in regards to the subject of the poor and such. Well anyhoo, I don’t see the reason to have attacked Skai’s person just because you didn’t like how he replied to your comment. Perhaps you may enlighten him by actually answering ….or are you hiding something more that he saw and you wish not to expose about yourself? just wondering. : )
“Conscience, Christ, and the gift of faith make evil men uneasy in their sin. They feel that if they could drive Christ from the earth, they would be free from “moral inhibitions.” They forget that it is their own nature and conscience which makes them feel that way. Being unable to drive God from the heavens, they would drive his ambassadors from the earth. In a lesser sphere, that is why many men sneer at virtue–because it makes vice uncomfortable.”
― Fulton J. Sheen, Life of Christ
B.O., why are you confusing judgment with discernment? Do you feel uncomfortable? Have you ever missed a meal? Does it make you grumpy? Sometimes I eat breakfast, sometimes that plus lunch, sometimes I don’t gobble anything but coffee. Sometimes I don’t find time to eat much until late at night. Regimentation for me, B.O., is an oxymoron. Have you considered that my grumpiness might have to do with the flow of rhetoric with respect to God? Give it a thought, B.O., for you never know but maybe I’m on to something. If it were up to minds like yours, the Church would still be claiming that the world is flat.
B.O., by “useful comments”, you obviously mean comments which would be go along to get along bureaucratic committee meeting fluff. B.O., I challenge you to come up with a creative thought. I know you’ve never tried, but see what you can do.
B.O., did you really read the CCC completely?
Bob one Skai is a gentleman, I noticed that he answered even your insults but you still keep dodging his comments that provoke thought. I would like to see you answer him showing that you have actually reflected on what he was trying to get you to think…that would be true charity on your part if you did. God bless.