The following comes from an August 17 story on the Catholic News Agency website.
Under the motto “from Crystal to Christocentric,” southern California’s famous Crystal Cathedral is undergoing a renovation that the local bishop calls “a thorough Christological transformation.”
The world’s great cathedrals “are designed to bring the light of God to people’s daily life; the cathedral is a place that draws, welcomes, calls, and sends forth at the same time,” said Bishop Kevin Vann of the diocese of Orange.
“This is the goal of the Christ Cathedral: being at the same time a place for the exercise of the spiritual and corporal works of mercy,” he remarked Aug. 2 at the Napa Institute Conference – the theme of which was “Building a Catholic Culture.”
The Orange diocese purchased the 3,000-seat Crystal Cathedral in February of 2012 from the Protestant church which founded it. The architectural landmark is made from over 10,000 panes of glass, and its interior must be renovated to make it suitable for Catholic worship.
“Building a cathedral is a challenge and an opportunity,” Bishop Vann said, who went on to explain that a cathedral must express the unity of the local Church and the centrality of the ministry of the bishop, especially in his role in the sanctification of his people.
Bishop Vann said that numerous aspects of the current building, including its central location in Orange, its easy access by public transportation, and a vast space to foster community, contribute to accomplish the goal of making the cathedral the very center of the spiritual life of the local Church.
Tim Busch, co-chair of the financial committee assured that “we will redesign the main building to comply with our Catholic liturgical tradition and needs. It will be a demanding challenge, but one we are seriously committed to.”
Since being acquired by Orange diocese, the building has been re-named Christ Cathedral.
Cindy Bobruk, executive director of the Orange Catholic Foundation, said that it will be “a cathedral that becomes a beacon of Catholic culture, Catholic education, and evangelization.”
The future cathedral contains the fourth largest church organ in the world, valued at $25 million. It is due to be dismantled and shipped to Italy for renovation, and then re-installed.
The Crystal Cathedral campus consists of seven building on 34 acres, and will have room for several permanent fixtures, including a school, space for cultural events, and place for prayer and Eucharistic Adoration.
It will house the diocesan chancery, which will be established on the property by October.
The oldest building on the campus, known as the “Arboretum,” was the first to be renovated. It was brought to conformity with current safety and building standards. The renovation, which included a new air conditioning system, was completed in 150 days.
The campus was purchased for $57.5 million under Bishop Vann’s predecessor, Bishop Tod Brown. The purchase was made after Crystal Cathedral had filed for bankruptcy in Oct., 2010 when some of its creditors sued for payment.
The Orange diocese is the tenth most populous in the U.S., home to some 1.2 million Catholics.
To read the original story, click here.
If the remodel of Christ Cathedral is anywhere near as good as the job the diocese did on the Arboretum, then it will be gorgeous and fitting indeed for the celebration of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The campus already looks 100% better with improved facility and grounds maintenance under the diocese.
I am a bit surprised and concerned that it will take until early 2016 to reopen. Over 2.5 years to remodel? Christ Cathedral was originally built in less than half that time. Then again if they are shipping the organ to Italy to be rebuilt they certainly are going all the way. I sure hope they are not trying to change too much. The design is quite beautiful (not to mention award winning) as is.
I suspect Pope Benedict will visit in 2016. I am sure the entire campus will gleam and really do a wonderful job of placing the Diocese of Orange on the map. I hope those that ignorantly and emotionally condemn Christ Cathedral after looking at mere photos will actually make the effort to visit the campus and attend Mass there. It’s quite beautiful in person.
Many will no doubt lack the humility and integrity to make such a trip. Those that do however are sure to be treated to a wonderful experience that brings them closer to God.
Yep, one of the greatest Catholic Church works of all history, the arboretum: “diocese did on the Arboretum”. Rodda should be raised to the high altar for pointing this out.
“I suspect Pope Benedict will visit in 2016”: Anybody out there in bloggoland care to update Rodda?
What do you get when you first choose $$$ money bargains and real estate deals before choosing to FAITHFULLY serve Christ FIRST?
You get the very predictable response of ……”I am a bit surprised and concerned that it will take until early 2016 to reopen. Over 2.5 years to remodel? Christ Cathedral was originally built in less than half that time.”
RB Rodda’s latest ploy is… “If at first they don’t succeed, let’s scapegoat the blame and the never ending astronomical costs and extra time on refurbishing an organ in Italy. Meanwhile fidelity to the Sacred Heart of Jesus is placed on the back burner and occasionally brought up when trying to solicit even more money.
Hosea 4: 6 “My people have been silent, because they had no knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will reject thee, that thou shalt not do the office of priesthood to me: and thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I also will forget thy children. 7 According to the multitude of them, so have they sinned against me: I will change their glory into shame. 8 They shall eat the sins of my people, and shall lift up their souls to their iniquity. 9 And there shall be like people like priest: and I will visit their ways upon them, and I will repay them their devices. “
So you are the Martin Luther of Orange County?
Bishop Brown never publicly retracted sending out those heretical memos.
Matthew 7 :20 “Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.”
Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door of the cathedral in Wittenberg, Germany on October 31, 1517 –
On Sunday, Jan. 18, Bishop Tod D. Brown embarrassed himself and the faithful when he chose to emulate Martin Luther and nailed to the door of his cathedral “seven promises” to Catholics of the Orange diocese outlining the diocese’s attempts to rebuild trust following the clergy sex abuse scandal.
While Brown’s stated goal in his “Covenant with the Faithful”–now tacked to the Holy Family Cathedral door–is to “provide an atmosphere of openness and trust” with everyone in the diocese “as partners,” abuse survivors see it more as a ploy or window dressing. The diocese confirmed it paid $90,000 to the public relations firm, Softness Group, for assistance in crafting the covenant and seven points.
This embarrassing public relation scheme was another total waste of money AND it backfired and ended up NAILING Bishop Tod D. Brown himself for not being open and transparent about himself. Here is the exact response from a very faithful well known priest after the faithful let this good priest know that Bishop Tod D. Brown had hammered his covenant on the cathedral door…… WHAAAT? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING! DEAR GOD PLEASE CONVERT HIM OR REMOVE HIM.”
Of course, Bishop Todd Brown was the Bishop. Martin Luther was a monk or priest who didn’t like some things about the church (like how the building of St. Peter’s was being funded). Bishop Brown’s Covenant with the Faithful is absolutely not comparable to Martin Luther’s 95 Theses. Your understanding of this seems entirely superficial. And it has nothing to do with the Crystal Cathedral other than “I hate the person who bought it so I hate it.”
I do not hate Bishop Brown. I have spoken with him personally on more than one occasion. He personally thanked me for the kindness and respect that I showed him so once again YOU are wrong. You are enabler of false teachers. This is not about my “superficial” understanding or your lack of understanding. This is about reality. There are priests who deliberately left this diocese in order to be able to teach the true faith. Bishop Brown is no longer Bishop but the very same cadre of thought and disobedience runs rampant in this diocese. Many are pastors and I hear about it from faithful priests. You my dear are the enabler of the Martin Luthers within the Church. It is the Bishops in the United States who need to have MORE confidence in the Catholic Church. You see it is the bishops who have been thumbing their nose to Rome and to Church teaching for years. Recently a bishop just announced that he was no longer a Democrat. This is a wake up call to all enablers such as yourself. The sex abuse scandals have done absolutely nothing to injure the spotless bride of Christ. The sex abuse scandals HAVE made it necessary to speak out against enablers of false teaching which helped to foster the filth within the Church, hence the enabling of children who were molested.
Yes, Catherine, reality. Do you know what enabling means? I think you have been reading too many bad books. I am glad that you do not hate Bishop Brown. You should then stop gossiping about him and trying to harm his reputation. These things are sinful and since he is no longer Bishop, they are of the past so not of the current reality. I lived in Orange County under Bishop Brown. He was trying to instruct people in the faith. There was so much trash talk about him on the internet that he was completely undermined. This isn’t about me, Catherine. You can misjudge and slander me all you want to but if you are wise and if you accept Marian apparitions, you will love your shepherds and stop your crusade against the Church. Stop reading bad books and websites which pollute your thoughts and instigate false judgements against God’s holy Church. Learn to discern what is of God and what is of yourself or another human’s desire for power and what is from the devil himself. All attacks on Holy Mother Church are immoral. I will no longer engage you in this discussion. Try to open your heart to Truth.
1.”I lived in Orange County under Bishop Brown.”
2. “All attacks on Holy Mother Church are immoral.”
k, Yes, I do remember you telling us that you used to live here. Your pattern of duplicity became so well recognized that you tried to hide your duplicitousness under the name “anonymous.” I also remember your very troubling defense of heretical activities on college campuses and your selective ability to give yourself a permission slips to gossip when you viciously undermined the reputation of faithful priests who courageously upheld Church teaching on homosexuality. Your undermining of those faithful priests was a direct attack on Holy Mother Church. Dead Giveaway!
Unbelievable!
Catherine, you obviously have a lot of anger issues with the Church and with certain people who blog here. I hope you can work them out but for now, like I said, no more discussion. God grant you peace.
Why do you think your rejection of a campus based on your own personal taste equates to not “choosing to FAITHFULLY serve Christ FIRST?”
Do you honestly believe you can sell that here? Yes, we get it, you don’t like Christ Cathedral based on your own personal taste. Leave it at that.
Mark Chapter 10: 13] And they brought to him young children, that he might touch them. And the disciples rebuked them that brought them. [14] Whom when Jesus saw, he was much displeased, and saith to them: Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of God. [15] Amen I say to you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, shall not enter into it. Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
Catherine,
What has the scripture passage you quoted have to do with the subject at hand, please explain.
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Thank you Kenneth for inquiring. Please read the above Aug 22, 1:44pm post.
Maybe, Kenneth, because she sees us trying to get the gay out of the way so their inner child can be touched by the Lord and healed. But with the incredible gay defensiveness, it is really difficult to open up the way for the Lord … “Make straight the way of the Lord”, but the gays do everything to prevent “straight” from happening.
This is not about personal taste. This is not about selling. That is where your mind first runs. The money deal is more important than FIRST teaching the fullness of the faith. Speaking of $$ and personal tastiness, a spokesperson for the diocese jokingly announced on a Catholic Radio program that the kitchens were going to be refurbished faster than the interior of the Church. This is so the money changers in the temple can work on that $$ priority to start selling those churros to make even more money. Meanwhile many Catholic parents still have to homeschool in this diocese for fear of the reality that their children will be taught error. Promises are not the same as truly delivering the goods of a solid Catholic education. Even during the elections and after the elections it was very telltale and extremely disappointing to see so many cars pour out of Catholic school parking lots with Obama bumper stickers. Christocentric zones or nice Obama comfort zones? Spending that amount of money on a building when our children are not being taught the true faith in many of our Catholic Schools is absolutely disgraceful. Parents drop their children off at a Catholic school and trust that their children will be taught the true faith but instead many children are being denied the fullness of truth by being indoctrinated with false teachings by the very disciples that should have been helping them get closer to Jesus. Priorities are wrong and they have been for many years. If children do NOT learn their faith, a multimillion $ glass business venture will not draw them closer to Jesus. It is now mainly a business venture of making $. “Suffer the little children to come unto me.”
Catherine, what does the purchase of a cathedral campus have anything to do with what is taught in Catholic schools?
And besides that, you seem to be saying that they are spending a lot of money on the Cathedral then in the next breath complain about them making money. Which is it? Are you mad that they make money or are you mad they spend money? And do you really think that Catholic schools are “making” money? Most schools are barely able to keep their doors open, let alone be a source of revenue.
It would be hard to find a diocese that has done more than the diocese of Orange in terms of training catechists or one that has made training in the faith a higher priority. Have you trained for the Master Catechist program? You cannot judge the quality of catechesis based on bumper stickers. (Although, I too flinch and pray when I see bumper stickers supporting pro-choice candidates in Catholic parking lots.) If you have a heart for teaching the Catholic truth, you should do so. I am very sure that, should a parent find that their child was receiving false teaching, Bishop Vann and the diocesan staff will support you. However, ignorance of the faith is so great that it is possible that errors are made or conversely, that a parent would object to a true teaching that they did not understand or believe. Things must be dealt with specifically, rather than general condemnation of a whole diocese.
“Catherine, what does the purchase of a cathedral campus have anything to do with what is taught in Catholic schools?
The fact that you are comfortably calling yourself a fellow Catholic and your homosexual activism on this faithful website answers that question.
Catherine I guess you had no logical answer to my question so you resorted to Ad Hominems. Again.
Recently I heard someone talking about the Church. They said that people who grew up before Vatican II were raised in a Church that taught that God was up in Heaven keeping score of all your sins and people were very concerned about avoiding hell. Since Vatican II the emphasis has been on “God is love” and that people are destined for Heaven. He said that both are true. But that both can be taken too far. Scrupulosity is not good and presumption is not good. I notice here that people often accuse people of sins that they do not commit. They also applaud things that really aren’t good. The word faithful is used ambiguously. It has two meanings-full of the virtue of faith or steadfast and loyal to the Church. People use it to attack others and to heighten their demonization of others. In the pre-Vatican II church we were always taught never to judge or criticize another person, because in God’s eyes they could be better than us. People nowadays sneeringly call it being politically correct but in the traditional church, criticizing others was always considered something that invited God’s punishment and judgment
Seems this will be ‘Vatican Of The West’. This is all getting out of hand – 25 million dollar organ, shipped to Italy and back!!!. Frankly, a $100.00 dollar organ would sound just as good. No wonder people are leaving the Church.
The $25M organ (and a $15-20M carillon and tower) were both included in the purchase price of the $57.5M campus. Christ Cathedral was a terrific deal financially as well.
” Christ Cathedral was a terrific deal financially as well.”
Douay-Rheims Bible 1 Corinthians 3:19
“For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written: I will catch the wise in their own craftiness.”
Really catherine please, stop trying to bop us over the head with quotes. I’m getting aconcussion and I’m going to sue you for what you do.
And fyi, im on the fence over whether this is a worthy expendidure. But please stop trying to pretend that it is completely clear which direction we should take, and pretending that anyone who dissents against your “will” is acting against the Gospel. Please honor us with a little more moral acumen than that!
Matthew 26:7-11 — ” a woman came up to him with an alabaster flask of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head, as he sat at table. But when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, “Why this waste? For this ointment might have been sold for a large sum, and given to the poor.” But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, “Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me. For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me.”
Great news, sell the organ to pay for the demolition, and then gather a team of actual faithful Catholic professionals and architect a brand spankin’ new structure that bespeaks Christ, and then build it.
Oh yeah and if you honestly think a “$100.00 dollar organ would sound just as good” then you have absolutely no business commenting about that pipe organ… ;)
Yes I do as I am an accomplish piano/organ player which includes a degree in music which i have used for the last 50 + years. I have played many, many, $100.00 organs, all over the world, and they are beautiful in tone and easy to touch/play. Your sarcasm seems to be out order with the CCD.
You’re simply wrong if you suggest a $100.00 organ “would sound just as good.” No tap-dancing around that one.
It would not.
Well, I’ve listened to many organs, and if you think you can play a hundred dollar organ as well as a pipe organ, I’ve got a river to styx to sell you. You betray your credentials by your absurd comments.
the comments by john are not absurd but i sure do find yours way out of line. what credentials do you have to give an answer to his comment?
“The world’s great cathedrals “…
This is not one of the world’s great cathedrals – the great ones are Catholic and were built by Catholics. This church is more of a Hollywood edifice that attempts to look showy but is relegated to the Protestant monstrosities of its Catholic sisters – LA and Oakland.
Of course, Catholics are being asked to pony up to pay for the extensive renovations, but I seem to remember that Bishop Brown had brought a lot of expensive property – wonder if that’s being sold?
Furthermore, it’s nice to know that the diocese is doing so much for the unemployed in the county, errant pseudo-Catholic politicians are being sanctioned, there are no other problems with Catholics knowing their Faith and that any Catholic child who wants to attend a Catholic school is able to do so (Third Plenary Council of Baltimore).
Have you ever visited the Christ Cathedral Campus? Ever been inside of the actual edifice? Given your comments I suspect not. You really should go once it’s all complete.
Some of THE great basilicas of the Church were not built by Catholics nor did they begin as Catholic structures. Does your rule hold true to those as well or only to those buildings you personally do not like?
What “expensive property” did Bishop Brown buy? The property for the proposed cathedral that would have cost far more than Christ Cathedral? That’s going to be used for a parish because OC is bursting at the seams with Catholics, thanks be to God. The old diocesan center, Marywood will be sold to help pay for the new campus.
You suspect wrong – I’ve been twice and I’m still not impressed.
There were 1,615 basilicas (major 4 ; minor 1,611) in the world as of July 2011 – all Catholic. Having lived in Europe for almost a decade, I’ve been fortunate to see many churches – and the new one in OC doesn’t begin to compare.
As for the bishop’s properties, there were a number of exposes 8=9 years ago, as I remember, that itemized a lot of the property that was bought – and they weren’t cheap.
There are so many more important things that the Church needs to be moving on (e.g., unemployment, supposed Catholic politicians, education, etc) and this is a tragic waste of money that the laity are asked to bailout when it shouldn’t have happened in the first place.
Again, it comes down to your own personal taste. We get it, you don’t care for the design of Christ Cathedral.
But that’s all your comments reduce to.
Bob,
Soon as promised, they will imitate the Archdiocese of Lost Angels (Los Angeles) in staging an Immigration Mass at the glass menagerie, and none other than those pillars of Catholicism(Not), Loretta Sanchez Brixey, and that Knight of Columbus of St. Columban’s in Garden Grove Council, Sen. Lou Correa will probably be honored with front row seats just as their fellow Demoncrats were at Gomez’s RogMahal!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Bob,
What about that Mansion on a very expensive cul de sac, complete with Jacuzzi, pool, and guest room. Oh, by the way, the Jacuzzi and guest room were added before the “shepherd” Brown would move into it. I happen to know one of the construction workers who installed them. When I showed Archbishop Khai it, he was embarrassed by what he saw, especially after I showed him the Rectory at was once the Cathedral. He then commented to me about that Rectory, what is wrong with this? Of course he was a true Shepherd who even hand washed his cassocks every night. We could always see them hanging up to dry on his small living quarters door.
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
What egotistical nonsense! At a time when the very foundation of the Catholic church in the USA is in shambles, these two want to put big money into a building.
Christ save us from such contracting Catholics.
OC needs a cathedral. When it was created it never built a cathedral. Thank God that He has provided!
Matthew 26:7-11 — “a woman came up to him with an alabaster flask of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head, as he sat at table. But when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, “Why this waste? For this ointment might have been sold for a large sum, and given to the poor.” But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, “Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me. For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me.”
This all appears to be nothing more than an attempt to justify the purchase of this structure. Like the Oakland diocese cathedral the amount of money spent on thes projects is un Christlike. Here in the mountains the local Bishop is pushing the parishoners for funds when the weekly donations at Mass is $1,200. The Bishops seem totally out of touch with the real needs of our faith in favor of owning monuments to money.
Oh? So in your opinion what is amount of money is “Christlike?” OC needs a cathedral and it’s expensive to buy land and build one in OC.
Was the $55M spent on the new co-cathedral in Houston (a design that makes the hearts of Christ Cathedral haters flutter with joy) acceptable? Would it have been OK had that design been built in OC for 2-3 times the price?
The architect/designer who can transform this “Protestant Barn” into a “Beacon of Catholc culture” will have performed a miracle. G*dspeed!
What is “catholic culture” today?
What an ugly slur. Like the others you should make the effort to actually visit the campus and take part in a Mass in the cathedral once it is done.
We all know — Christ Cathedral does not fit your definition of what a cathedral should be. The Holy See says differently, thanks be to God.
While I understand the financial advantage of buying this place (too good to pass up for this much land centrally located at the price) and the savings of building a new Cathedral, I am disappointed in the post modern design. I know Busch is a pretty solid Catholic (Orthodox) so I am glad he is in on it. But as far this being a place of “Catholic culture, education and evangelization”, (I certainly pray for this to be the case) but I’ll believe it when I see it.
Have you ever been to the campus? Ever been inside the cathedral?
One good southern California earthquake, and poof.
Cynicism, by definition, is unchristian.
No, it’s when ideals become expectations and these are then crushed.
If cynicism is unchristian what do you call spending three hundred million dollars for two churches in California? Just what does this amount of money buy except egoes?
A House of God.
Indeed. Well said.
What do you expect the replacement cost of St. Pete’s Basilica is? $10B?
Is that edifice also only about egos?
Particularly when it’s accompanied by ignorance and hatred.
The nasty comments on this thread boil down to this in the end: “I personally do not like Christ Cathedral from the pictures I have seen of it so I will attack it.”
Rodda,
Do you in fact live in the Diocese of Orange? If so, why haven’t you yet answered that question?
Viva Cristo Rey!
May God have mercy on your soul,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Mr Fisher: A few weeks you stated that we all should join the modern Church and my question to you at that time was ” Please define ‘Modern Church”. You never did and I believe that this would be a good time for you to do this. Thank you.
Cynicism is a literary form useful by Catholics as many other literary forms in discerning the nature of things, and often useful in outting sodomites from their little hiding places, where they imitate scorpions coming out in the dark to sting people.
Matthew 26:7-11 — ” a woman came up to him with an alabaster flask of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head, as he sat at table. But when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, “Why this waste? For this ointment might have been sold for a large sum, and given to the poor.” But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, “Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me. For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me.”
Several posters here share the same ignorance of some of the Apostles. Christ Cathedral will glorify God and help to bring many people closer to Him!
RB Rodda is wrong to tell others that they no right to comment. RB lost his right to ever appear faithfully objective when he slipped up and undermined a faithful priest for nixing the Boy Scouts from his parish. Dead Giveaway. Almighty God deserves the very finest. Almighty God deserves our complete faithfulness not RB’s poor misunderstanding and misrepresentation of Sacred Scripture. Even worse Almighty God does not deserve the…Hey guys, “I’ll publicly post one in support of the lavender team by touting the Crystal Cathedral’s architect and designer of the Hazel Wright Organ as being homosexuals. ” Please do not compare St. Peter’s Basilica to the Let’s Make a Deal disordered purchase and architectural design of a tall Hollywood mirror to foolishly bask in the distorted reflection of one’s own ego.
Taken from CCD’s St. Callistus moves to Christ Cathedral
Fr. Gregory Coiro, O.F.M.Cap. says:
August 13, 2013 at 5:50 pm
“I don’t understand why a discussion of Christ Cathedral involves a discussion of homosexuality. Is it because its architect, Philip Johnson, and the designer of the Hazel Wright Organ, Virgil Fox, were gay? I never see anybody suggesting that St. Peter’s Basilica is bad because Michelangelo may have been gay. Regardless, Christ Cathedral is a truly magnificent building and, with all of the facilities already in place on that campus, will be a major player in the New Evangelization.”
Almighty God deserves your complete faithfulness. “If the Lord does not build a house, then in vain do the builders labor.” Psalm 127:1 The Crystal Cathedral could not have been built without the Lord’s help. He knew as it was being designed and built that it would one day be a Catholic Cathedral. Did you ever think that He Himself inspired the design? How about He being the one to make it become Catholic? Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean God doesn’t. Just because you don’t want it, doesn’t mean God doesn’t. “Be still and know that I am God.” Psalm 46:10
Thank you, that is really beautiful. I have no doubt that the Crystal Cathedral becoming Christ Cathedral was the work of God. None.
What a batch of absurd Calvinist crock, moustard!! You nutjob fatalists imagine everything to be some sort of robot that God creates. Your sense of Catholicism and the Gospel are really really lacking … but the worst part, and the part you are culpable of is your presumption that you know what you’re talking about. It is your presumption which Rodda and the Roddettes has gone bonkers over.
Apart from God, nothing can exist. God sometimes permits evil to bring about a greater good. The fact of a thing’s existence doesn’t mean that God is pleased with it and blesses it.
Would you claim that the Lord built and blesses abortion clinics? Should we be still and know that He is God, because He allowed abortion clinics to be built?
There were many buildings in Sodom and Gomorrah. The Lord allowed them to be built, but he also allowed them to be destroyed, because of the wickedness in those cities.
The Lord allowed the temple in Jerusalem to be built, as well. The rejection of Jesus resulted in the loss of God’s grace and protection, and Jerusalem was sacked and the temple was destroyed.
The Crystal Cathedral is an aesthetic eyesore, a barren open space designed for a Protestant televangelist, with no connection to Catholic theology in its design or decor.
It would have been less expensive to build a new Catholic cathedral, with Catholic theology in mind.
The Mission Basilica San Juan Capistrano is far more beautiful and its decor and design actually reflect the Catholic faith. (Yes, the theology taught there in some of the homilies and parish bulletins is problematic, but the basilica is beautiful.)
Beautiful houses of worship are good, but orthodox teaching and preaching are better.
What the Diocese of Orange needs, much more than a cathedral, is a housecleaning. We need heterodoxy driven out of the diocese. That should be the focus.
I looked at the article about the Boy Scouts. There are no posts from R. B. Rodda on it.
Catherine’s post does not say that Rodda blogged on that thread.
Wait a minute, Catherine, are you suggesting that Rodda is Father Coiro? Are you trying once again to make this a discussion about gays or homosexuality? Because when I search for either of those words, your post is the only one I see with those two words. Can we please have a discussion about anything without your shoving homosexuality down our throats?
Catherine, you obviously dislike (actually “hate” is probably a better word) the design of Christ Cathedral.
Get over it! Your personal taste is not the arbiter of whether it is beautiful and whether it’s suitable to serve as a Catholic cathedral. That’s up to the resident ordinary and ultimately the Holy See. Both have given their approval.
Your personal taste does NOT matter in this care!
Maybe so, especially if Tim Busch is related to the Anheuser Busch family, and they can modify Rodda’s beloved Crystal Cathedral arboretum to a Busch Gardens venue.
Rodda,
I knew an Archbishop who while in exile was posted to the Diocese of Orange, and he would not agree with you at all about the glass menagerie.
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
So?
The Holy See during the Pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI approve the purchase of the Christ Cathedral Campus.
Your personal opinion doesn’t mean a darned thing in this instance.
RB Rodda, Your personal opinions that undermined a faithful priest for upholding Church teaching on homosexuality does not mean a darned thing, yet that did not seem to bother you or stop you from posting your dissenting opinion. Dead Giveaway! Your prideful personal slip up and your invective commentary about Mother Angelica truly shows that you are bigoted against the authentic teachings that were approved by the Holy See.
Dissenters like RB Rodda are notorious for selectively bringing up the Holy See if it suits their own agenda. Dissenters have long ignored the teachings approved by the Holy See. This sort of selective obedience is known as heterodoxy or heteropraxis.
RB Rodda’s works (his slip up and undermining Church teaching on homosexuality) do not line up with the doctrines and disciplines he selectively affirms.
Catherine, hi, no faithful priest can be undermined because he stands on the rock of Christ and the Church. The people who do not accept church teaching on homosexuality obviously don’t care what the Pope, the bishops, the clergy teach. Any reproach or criticism of priests or bishops or the Pope gives them fodder for their dissent and heterodoxy. It doesn’t matter whether the issue is one of faith, morality, discipline or authority. This is why criticizing churchmen has always been seen as especially sinful. Those who support gay marriage will get a boost from your rebellion against the purchase of the Christ Cathedral. The Church is a unity. Anything that disturbs that unity gives Satan entrance.
The question of whether it is worthwhile for a Diocese to spend large sums for a Cathedral, or to spend the money on other things, is a good one. I’ve formed no opinion, but I think there is room for healthy debate. One data point I’d add to the conversation is that, given the cost of real estate in California, there are very likely Catholics in the diocese who own homes that are more expensive than these properties. There may be many such people. Does that change the moral equation?
The Crystal Cathedral is about as far removed from traditional Catholic architecture as an aircraft hangar.
It will never reflect authentic Catholic culture. Only Abp. Mahoney’s monument to his own self-importance
can possibly exceed this edifice in vulgarity and general ugliness. It will at best become a tourist attraction
for people visiting Disneyland, a fitting attribute. Sorry, my concept of a Catholic cathedral is hopelessly
stuck in our holy and apostolic past, when Christian culture reflected Christian ideals and esthetics.
The Diocese of Orange is making a monumental mistake and wasting obscene amounts of money it
does not have on a structure totally unfit for Catholic worship.
You’re right when you say that Christ Cathedral is far removed from “traditional Catholic architecture.” You’re wrong on everything else.
The fact that YOU do not like the design does not mean that your belief that “It will never reflect authentic Catholic culture” is valid. That’s merely your personal belief and nothing more. The fact that the Holy See approved the purchase actually says that you are quite wrong.
Your “concept of a Catholic cathedral” is limited by your own limited breadth and obvious bigotry. We all understand that you and others do not like Christ Cathedral, but that realization does not make your other charges valid. Do you comprehend that?
You suggest that the diocese is making a mistake and wasting money. I suggest your comments are clearly so bigoted and ignorant that you have absolutely no business judging the decision by the Holy See to allow the purchase of the Christ Cathedral Campus.
Rodda and the Roddettes, do you realize that you’re posting the word, “bigotry”, over and over and over? BTW, did you happen to see the signatures of those Vaticanites who signed off on the purchase of the glass house? If so, you would not mind revealing the names, would you, Rodda and the Roddettes??
RB Rodda you are absolutely right. I am hopelessly lost in the past. What was I thinking? Some Vatican bureaucrat approved this project, so it must be good. Who am I to judge what is esthetically pleasing and what is merely meerschaum. How judgmental of me! My apologies!
In Christ Jesus, there is no time, there is no past, there is no preseent, there is no future, for all is timeless. “Timeless beauty” is a phrase that most readers seem ignorant of, and some readers seem defiant of … Rodda are you listening?
Whenever the question of church architecture comes up someone always says that a “modern” church doesn’t look like a Catholic church. And, I always ask the question of them, what does a Catholic church look like? I seldom if ever get an answer. Anton, please, for the rest of us, what make a church Catholic? What must it look like inside and out? What acrutements must it have? How should it be designed? Whom does it serve? Are churches in different parts of the worlk all the same? Help me, please. Tell me what I should be looking for?
B.O., several posters have past given names of faithful Catholic architects, and books on the topic. Look at it this way: In that bishops today are not usually holy men, according to the recent and present popes, and that Jesus tells us that good fruit does not come from bad trees, then obviously the architecture at issue here is lousey. For good architecture you have to have a holy bishop.
Bob One: What does a Catholic cathedral look like. It does NOT look like this glassy pyramid. But then “de gustibus non disputantur”.
Whatever floats your boat. The Crystal Cathedral is not my idea of a sacred structure, like those in Chartres, Rheims, or Cologne.
I am totally biased, I admit.
There is a parish in San Diego County, the inside of which looks like a ship building hanger, by design.
The nasty comments some continue to spew at Christ Cathedral are a product of burning pride, arrogance, buigotry and abject ignorance. Their attacks boil down to nothing more than their personal dislike of the design.
It’s interesting to note that the campus was approved for purchase by a bishop of the Church. Mention that and they’ll go off on a nasty tirade about Bishop Brown. It’s even more interesting to consider the cathedral campus was approved for purchase by the Holy See during Pope Benedict XVI’s tenure. Mention that and I’m sure they’ll have an excuse at the ready — it might even include a mention of the long dead Alfredo Cardinal Ottaviani.
God’s work is being done by the purchase and restoration of the Christ Cathedral Campus. Some need to get past their bigotry, ignorance and pride and begin to realize this.
RB Rodda, It WAS burning pride and arrogance that had you slip up and undermine a faithful priest for upholding Church teaching on homosexuality.
Will Jesus come when mass is celebrated over there? He will.
Is this money well spent? That is the Bishop’s responsibility. We can have opinions about it, but its upon the bishop to decide.
Do we know the Bishop’s heart? No, But Christ knows.
For us making all kinds of statements, Do we know if these statements will be used against us at our particular judgment? Yes we do. So, lets all be careful what we say.
We can know hearts by a man’s actions and words, ie by the fruits they bear. (Note, Anonymo, even though you’ll find the word, “bear”, in my post, try to realize that I’m not talking about bears.)
“the cathedral is a place that draws, welcomes, calls, and sends forth at the same time,” said Bishop Kevin Vann”: Jesus says that when the bishops do not feed the Gospel to the hungry, then the stones will cry out in His Name. This must be what Bp Vann means.
Jesus did not say that. Sheesh.
Anonymo, you have virtually no knowledge of the Bible, and you cannot read well; how could you have failed to notice the word “that”, as in “Jesus says ‘that’ … “. Also, do you notice any quotation marks? No? So you get a zero on your two question quiz, meaning … yes, Anonymo, meaning you need reading remediation. Seek a grammar school where they can teach you.
You said that. Jesus did not say that.
Luke 19:29 After this, when he was approaching Bethphage and Bethany, close to the mountain which is called Olivet, he sent two of his disciples on an errand; 30 Go into the village that faces you, he told them, and as you enter it you will find a colt tethered there, one on which no man has yet ridden; untie it and bring it here. 31 And if anybody asks you, Why are you untying it? this must be your answer, The Lord has need of it. 32 So the two he had appointed went on their way, and found the colt standing there, just as he had told them. 33 As they were untying it, its owners asked them, Why are you untying the colt? 34 And they said, Because the Lord has need of it. 35 So they brought the colt to Jesus, and spread out their garments on it, and bade Jesus mount. 36 As he went, they strewed the road with their garments; 37 and when he drew near the descent of mount Olivet, the whole company of his disciples began rejoicing and praising God for all the miracles they had seen. 38 Blessed is the king, they said, who comes in the name of the Lord; peace in heaven, glory above. 39 Some of the Pharisees who were among the multitude said to him, Master, rebuke thy disciples; 40 but he answered, I tell you, if they should keep silence, the stones will cry out instead.
Jesus said what you have quoted. He did not say, as you have proved, “when the bishops do not feed the Gospel to the hungry, then the stones will cry out in his name.” Thanks for the scripture.
At the end of the passage you quote: ” if they should keep silence, the stones will cry out instead”. “Keep silence” … “Word of God”: You’ll have to explore it on your own; if it does not interest you, that’s one thing; if it does, then you’ll explore it.
” “, said Jesus, according to all Bible translations and versions. I hope some readers can actually rise to the challenge here. Isn’t there anyone out there who has actually studied literature and how language works? I know I’m not the only one, because there were always lots of people in the classes I took. Which Letter tells us that Jesus said and says a lot more than is recorded in Scripture? What about the Holy Eucharist and the faithful? Is Jesus A. remote, B. a book, C. what you learn in the CCC2ndEd?, D. every word that proceeds from the bishop’s mouth, E. what you think He said? Did the Word of God leave us at the moment Gutenberg completed the first printed Bible? How can we learn to discern what in fact Jesus says? How do you know that you are correctly interpreting what your eyes see in the page? And please no one come up again with that crock about “interpretation” being evil. How many faithful are there, and is it an ex cathedra dogma that there is only one perspective that is “correct”? Anyone out there ever been in a Catholic school that taught you how to reason on your own from commonly agreed upon grounds? Anyone out there who was taught only to repeat formulae given them by their school meistros, upon pain of death and loss of salvation? Anyone out there actually read the way reasoning has developed in the Church over two millenia? Anyone out there ever tried arguing Catholicism vs a highly educated non believer? Anyone realized the oft times futility of Bible or CCC thumping? What is the objective, to quote verses or to win souls?
Catholics aren’t as stupid as you think they are.
” The campus was purchased for $57.5 million under Bishop Vann’s predecessor, Bishop Tod Brown. ”
It’s nice to know that there is a Diocese with lots and lots of money, and that their Masses will fill the 3000 seats.
I hope they will make the TABERNACLE front and center, instead of hiding it in a back room or shoving it off to the side.
A lot has been said here.
All I can add is HAVE FULL CONFIDENCE IN BISHOP VANN.
You will not be disappointed.
Humility. Docility. Graces to pray for.