Father Rafael Partida, episcopal vicar for the Riverside region of the San Bernadino diocese, appeared on a June 19 Facebook video in a message to the parishioners of San Secondo d”Asti in Guasti.
Father Partida read a letter from San Bernadino Bishop Alberto Rojas on the departure of Norbertine Father Francis Gloudeman.
“Father Gloudeman has been recalled by his superiors to a time of prayer and reflection…. Father Gloudeman’s faculties to say public Mass in the Diocese of San Bernadino were withdrawn after careful review under canon law…
“Father Gloudeman made an unfortunate decision to give a homily on May 23 in which he used false claims to criticize our Holy Father, Bishop emeritus Gerald Barnes, and me….”
Father Partida: “The statement Bishop Rojas signed his name to was not a statement promoting homosexuality but was a statement regarding bullying….”
This trend of sacking orthodox priests is all about homosexualizing the Church. Any priest who dares talk about the Catholic Church’s moral teachings is isolated and bullied. What bishops will speak up for these falsely maligned priests, I wonder.
The priest has not been falsely maligned nor mistreated. As I commented in the original story on Cal Catholic, the priest acted imprudently and uncharitably by calling out the bishop by name for unfair criticism.
Why are you anonymous?
Consider it a form of witness protection program.
People are Anonymous because they don’t want to be chewed up and spit out by Liberal demons.
The up and down votes make no sense for the above two posts. They both say the same thing but one gets heavily downvoted and the other upvoted. I think people go crazy with their random clicks.
The Priest was sacked because of his criticism of a pro-homosexual Bishop. Nice try. Maybe we all could claim we’ve been “bullied” by the cowardly evil Bishops promoting sodomy in our Church.
Excellent point, Ronnie.
I mean, here is Bishop Rojas bullying a priest, and it’s all over the bishop signing a document against bullying!
They hypocrisy here is off the charts.
So here you admit the statement signed by the bishop was an anti-bullying statement, not a statement in support of homosexuality, as you claim in other posts. Your inconsistency is off the charts. Now that you’ve been caught, will you apologize to readers and admit that the priest made up lies about the bishop supporting homosexuality and the statement he signed?
Anastymous: “So here you admit . . .”
First, calm down. Okay?
Second, go review my comments.
Third, feel free to apologize for not reading carefully.
Yes, who will speak up for falsely maligned orthodox priests?? And why were these 14 USCCB clerics allowed to sign a document for a non-Catholic “LGBT” youth secular group, stating that “LGBT” behavior is “healthy?” Trying to prevent bullying is fine– but the USCCB as a whole, should have a policy for all its bishops to follow, promoting only authentic Catholic teaching. Those 14 clerics had no business separately aligning with a secular, non-Catholic group, that does not promote Catholic moral and religious teaching. The USCCB should forbid such misleading and wrongful actions of its members.
There is no such document. It never existed and no Bishop signed it.
You are correct. I worked with Courage and accompanied many men and women toward chastity in Jesus. The statement supporting youth with homosexual desire does not do that. Its ambiguity does not bring them to Jesus. No one can be held responsible for what he feels, but if his impulses to commit sin are so strong that he has trouble resisting, the church should be there for him regardless of the nature of the vice: pride, ire, greed, envy, sloth, gluttony, lust so that with grace they be vanquished and give way to humility, generosity, magnanimity, diligence, temperance, and chastity.
My comment was placed below “anonymous” You are correct was a response to Deus Vult.
Toldya it would happen this way. Completely justified response by the bishop, by the way.
The Norbertines must be careful to avoid the schismatic attitudes of the TLMers and politically overactive novus ordoans.
Just say Mass, Fathers. Don’t try to get your 15 minutes of internet fame with a viral homily video. Pride precedes the fall.
Anonymous,
To merely criticize your bishop is not schismatic. I think you’re being excessively divisive. Also, your sensitivity to discourse makes you sound much worse than a Trid.
I recommend that the Norbertines pull their men out of San Bernardino.
I for one am so heartbroken by this whole ordeal. I found fr Francis mid pandemic and he confessed me… he was always so wonderful with his absolutions and gave me fatherly council that I , a fatherless child – now single mother really needed to heal .. father wounds are strong and he was a Sheppard who cared for his flock. I was one of the lambs he led. & all I can do is offer this to Christ. I’m praying for Fr. Francis and I will miss him in San Secondo. ????
You mention pride – If this priest had encouraged his flock to attend a homosexual pride celebration, his bishop would have remained silent. Who’s really in danger of falling??
I watched Fathers sermon twice back to back, where are the lies?!!!! Punishment not justified. Still why are you anonymous? Are bishop Barron?
Eye of the beholder. What about what he said about Bill Gates? I heard a priests use OJ as an example in a homily once and I was shocked. When you have sins of the tongue in a homily, you can be sure it is not coming from the Holy Spirit.
You can’t make this stuff up….Anonymous writes “Pride precedes the fall”.
Oh yea it does and we can picture those who support homosexual sin falling fast. God have mercy on ignorance and tolerance wrapped up in acceptance of sin and death.
have it YOUR way, Rojas
Catholicism reduced to Burger King level
Three points I will make:
(1) If the 14 episcopal signers agree with Roman Catholic moral teaching on homosexual relations, why was a clarifying moral statement was not made by these bishops in the first place? Most statements by groups of bishops are vetted several times by competent and trained staffers. Interesting that, while Fr Partida actually did a fine job of explaining the position of these bishops and confirmed that Bishop Rojas is “100%” in agreement with the Roman Catholic Church’s moral stance on homosexual relations as “intrinsically disordered,” it is clear that this moral position was not at all articulated in the Tyler Clementi Foundation statement letter of these 14 bishops.
(2) 14 bishops (active and retired) have signed on to the Tyler Clementi document. This number equates to about 2-3% of all active (Latin Rite) bishops depending on how one counts active, eastern rite, retired, etc. Not surprisingly, Cardinal Tobin and Bishop McElroy are the notable figures on this list. I make this comment to point out that the list is mostly comprised of the close associates of Tobin and McElroy who are, the defacto “far left wing” of the Roman Catholic hierarchy of the American Roman Catholic Church. In other words, we should be grateful that 97% of American Catholic prelates DID NOT sign this document and were probably dismayed at what ultimately amounts to a secularized dog-whistle statement for the appeasement of certain “associates” within and outside the Roman Catholic Church. More on this in my next point…
(3) Bishop Alberto Rojas. While I agree that it was probably unwise for a religious order priest to take on this issue from the pulpit in such a manner, I do also think Bishop Alberto Rojas is partially to blame for causing this incident in the first place by co-signing. Why was he compelled to sign in the first place? He is a brand-new ordinary and is just getting to know his clergy and people. Unfortunately, we are unfortunately going to see more of these cases when bishops start to create mini-consortiums of this sort led by certain bishops. One would think that the US bishops themselves would have enough political and religious savvy to know that – when they start to align themselves with non-Catholic entities that endorse party planks and also support allied groups such as Pride, The Human Rights Campaign, and Folsom Street East (celebrating Kink and Fetish lifestyles) – some clergy might feel morally compelled to sound off, as did Fr. Gloudeman. For example, it is no secret that Bishop McElroy of San Deigo is a very liberal Democrat. Not just a liberal, but a liberal “capital D” Democrat. There is a difference, and I do wish the US Bishops would discuss ways to prevent small groups of bishops from making political overtures and statements that, in effect, serve to support a political party. Subterranean political alliances by both conservative and liberal bishops are splitting the Church right in half, and it is abhorrent to Christ’s commandment that “all might be one.”
I will add that just three years ago, Bishop McElroy called for the de-polarization of Catholic moral teaching and doctrine when President Trump was in office. How strange and telling that Bishop McElroy has reversed course and is now contributing to a deeper polarization by quarterbacking statements that support Democratic Party and pro-Biden policy coalitions with the USCCB.
https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/04/20/bishop-mcelroy-catholics-must-fight-polarization-politics-and-church
No Father the Church isn’t being split it is being purified. The gay faction will eventually become like the mainline protestants and die out. A Faithful remnant will remain as it always has and it will rebuild from the rubble.
See how quickly a bishop can act when he wants to?
How about the bishops or any bishop put a statement on fast track that denies Communion to politicians who support abortion?
They can act fast when they want to. If they don’t act fast it’s only because they don’t want to. If they don’t act at all, it’s because they don’t want to.
Sounds like Bp. Rojas over-reacted. Gay-promoter Jesuit Fr. James Martin, S.J., helped coordinate this endeavor. Cdl. Tobin, Bp. McElroy, and liberal Abp. Wester (from San Fran. originally) were among the 14 “Catholic” liberal clerics who signed the statement. Many liberal papal “favorites”– no integrity in any of them– nor in the Vatican. Everyone knows the truth– it’s not about “bullying,” it’s about promoting the immoral “LGBT” agenda. How many other priests were harmed by these 14 fake “Catholic” immoral clerics? If I were a priest, I would never publicly rebuke my bishop. Instead, I would teach Christian Morality, and warn that the “LGBT” agenda is wrong– and say that God loves us all, and wants everyone to live according to Christ’s teachings.
I believe that the USCCB should have its own policy, which all its members must be required to follow. The bishops should be strictly prohibited from aligning with non-Catholic secular organizations, that do not promote Catholic moral and religious teachings. They must not mislead the Catholic faithful, and mistakenly mix and confuse their mission with dubious, non-Catholic secular organizations– many of which may be totally contrary to Catholic faith and morals, in their mission.
I wish the bishop had gone to the parish and talked with the Norbertine priest. (I feel like the priest did bear false witness against the bishop). Even if his order recalled him, I think the bishop should have gone to the parish in person not have the parochial vicar read a statement on Facebook. Since the homily did go viral, I think it was appropriate to address it on social media, but only after it had been addressed in person. (unless someone had Covid or cancer or something)
I live in the Diocese of SB near Palm Springs. I attended a COURAGE conference about a decade back and wrote to Bishop Barnes what I thought was a really respectful letter asking him if we could establish a chapter of this apostolate in our diocese. I never heard back from him. There is a “Ministry for Families with Gay and Lesbian Catholics” that claims that the Diocese is not responsible for its website’s content. Yet several diocesan webpages directly link to their website. Fellow Catholics living in the diocese please check out the website for yourself and consider writing a letter to the new bishop yourself. Don’t give up! https://mfglc.wordpress.com/
Is it true that Palm Springs has a lot of gays? I have heard that priests have condos there for getaways.
Man, you don’t even want to know.
the mayor is gay
Trying to Live Chaste,
I truly admire your devotion to chastity. We are all called to chastity (straight, gay, married, single), but society tells us that we’re foolish if we are. This demonic spirit is especially prominent in the gay community, so I admire your devotion to the Truth.
In my lifetime, I’ve written three bishops about problems in their dioceses Only the corrupt one didn’t write back. Keep up the good work! :)
It is much better to live in a mature society, with Manhood and Womanhood well-defined, with strict rules, where Chastity is expected for all, and you don’t bother with even knowing if someone is “gay”– don’t care, and don’t have time for that “nonsense!” Your personal life should be kept personal and private, and if you have a problem, there should be plenty of kind, caring, helpful professional help and support. Nobody should focus on sexuality at all. Everyone should be busy working hard, studying hard, with good behavior. Good Manners and Good Morals, and goodwill, peace, and happiness, and rewards for studying and hard work, for all! I have always missed the days before the filthy “hippie sex revolution,” and sick “feminism,” with Christianity dominant in society, respect for God, family, country, and society, far less crime, where good churches, schools, and civic organizations, police and courts of law all uphold Christian Morals and family values! A good place to live, to grow up in, get married in and raise a family of your own in– with nice, safe neighborhoods everywhere, and neighborly goodwill and good community life on a mature level (not filthy, babyish, immoral, shaky, unstable “hippie- fringe-misfit” community concepts). Christian Morality, good family values, peace, safety, happiness and well-being for all!
Trying to live chaste– Good for you. Tyler Clementi, a talented violinist and concertmaster of his New Jersey youth orchestra, told his parents he was gay, a few days before he left for college. His dad seemed okay with the news, but his mother, an evangelical Christian, was very upset, though she eventually expressed her love for her son. An 18-year-old boy struggling with “being gay,” attending a big university– Rutgers– in New Jersey, not far from NYC– he got involved with an online gay pornography site (which should not exist) and was “thrown to the wolves.” I bet his roommate was nervous about rooming with a boy who was actively gay– although he committed a terrible crime with his computer camera. The roommate should never have been in the situation of rooming with a boy committing gay sex acts at school, in the first place. Two 18-year-olds– “thrown to the wolves.” No help, no moral training, no laws, no school rules– and “hooking-up” (“gay” or “straight”) “accepted,” in today’s colleges– a horror beyond belief. Very dangerous. No family, parents, church, college counselor, or adult to help, at the school. So Tyler didn’t even make it to the end of his very first college semester– he went “berserk,” and left a Twitter post stating he was going to jump off the George Washington Bridge (spanning the Hudson River, between New Jersey and New York)– and he did. This boy’s life should never have ended like this. We need plenty of support for all kids, with strict rules, and chastity expected on campus, and pornography being strictly illegal on all types of media. Dress codes, housemothers in dorms, segregated boys’ and girls’ dorms, study hours, curfews, bedtime at certain hours, adult behavior expected, help for kids to transition to adulthood during college years, and be ready for a successful life. And lots of campus ministries with various churches, and groups like “Courage” on campus, to help “LGBT” kids.
The Tyler Clemente myth is much like the Matthew Shepherd myth of the poor victimized gay.
I encourage you to check out Eden Invitation at https://www.edeninvitation.com/
May God bless you in all ways!
You can tell where the bishops stand on homosexuality by how quickly they take action against those who stand up for the teaching of the Church against it. You can always tell who holds the power, by whomever is beyond criticism.
What percentage of the Catholic clergy are homosexuals? I’d guess about 90%. I assume if you’re a Catholic bishop, you’re homosexual.
That’s a pretty fair assumption. A friend of mine told me about the things he witnessed in seminaries. It would disgust you and then make you weep for the state of the church. If people only knew about the secret gay underworld in the clergy.
Well, I’m in San Bernardino diocese. I left the Diocesan Catholic church and now attend a Traditional Latin Mass. Never been happier with my faith.
A lot of people are happier when they leave the Catholic Church.
But you need to think of the eternal consequences.
to quote Leonard Cohen :
“Everybody knows that the war is over…….
everybody knows that the Good Guys lost.”
this is where I (respectfully) disagree w/ Fr. John
when he says the Church is being split “in half.”
I’d say 80/20 …… Bad Guys !
I believe the USCCB should have its own policy for all its clerics to follow, and none of them should be aligning with non-Catholic secular organizations that do not promote Catholic moral and religious teaching. Very misleading and wrongful!
Many bishops aren’t very smart. That’s part of the problem. But they think they’re smart because they are bishops. Bishops also want to be liked, so they sometimes do things that they believe will win them praise.
Just like many elected officials aren’t very smart, but they think they’re smarter than everyone else because they hold office.
Sadly, I think you’re right. I think my own bishop lands in that category.
Anonymous, I always thought the same thing, sadly. There are many bishops (and some popes, too!) who are not very smart.
Has it been verified that Father Gloudeman addressed homosexuality in his homily? The article states Fr Gloudeman made uncharitable and false statements about the Bishop. It is proper for a Bishop to correct a priest when the priest is wrong. The priests work for the Bishop.
Wilma,
The priest is a Norbertine and doesn’t likely report to the bishop. The Norbertines can’t control what the bishop does, but they do control what they do. I personally feel that they should pull out of the diocese.
They can just stay holed up in their $100 million new abbey.
Anonymous,
No, not at all. If they pull out of San Bernardino, they’ll undoubtedly find another diocese to where they will send some of their men.
https://rumble.com/vhjhvj-liberal-catholicism-is-not-of-the-holy-spirit-fr.-francis-gloudeman-o.praem.html
It starts at 6:09
Thanks for posting the link.
Wow! what a truly courageous priest is Fr. Gloudeman. I have had some of these priests in my life, otherwise I would have left the Church a long time ago. A priest who is courageous enough to speak Truth to power. God bless and protect him and keep him on the Straight and Narrow. Pray for me, too, Fr. Gloudeman if you see this, as I you. Certe, Deus vult.
This is another example of the double-standard of many, if not most, bishops. Since the homily has been removed, I can’t read (or listen to) it. I don’t know if Fr. Gloudeman was prudent.
That said, can anyone find anything untrue in what he said?
The “God is on your side” document signed by some bishops says nothing about chastity, virtue or sin. And, the statement is from the Tyler Clementi Foundation, sponsored by, among others, the Human Rights Campaign. It’s part of a coalition of LGBTQ+ lobby groups that promote deviant sexual behavior.
As those bishops state, “we stand with you and oppose any form of violence, bullying or harassment directed at you.” And, that is true of all of us. I’ve never met a Christian in favor of violence, bullying or harassment directed at anyone. That’s a “straw man” argument and is not the issue.
I have definitely met Christians in favor of violence, bullying and harassment.
Anonymous,
Yes, so have I. But the number is so small that it’s ridiculous that they even made the comment. The comment of anonymous clergyman essentially stands.
Those are not true Christians. Violence, bullying and harassment are of the Devil, not Christ.
anonymous clergyman: “Since the homily has been removed . . .”
You can watch here at CourageousClergy.com (and also Gloria.tv and on Rumble):
https://courageousclergy.com/liberal-catholicism-is-not-of-the-holy-spirit?list
Fr. Gloudeman is one of California’s great priests. St. Junipero Serra, and all the Cristeros, would be very proud of him today, and I’m sure his former colleague at San Secondo, Fr. Louis Marx (R.I.P), would be too.
anonymous clergyman, the homily is extremely “imprudent.” He appears drunk or tired (not saying he is.) You should watch it. There are two links in the comments now to it.
It is quite the homily.
Anonymous,
Is being imprudent, drunk, or tired grounds for yanking faculties?
Aside from being tired, yes.
Anonymous,
Really? No talk in private, no request for an apology, no request for retraction, no talking to his superiors, and no second chance. Is the answer to just go nuclear?
This is incompetent leadership.
If you watch the FB video linked above, it is said that he met with diocesan leaders and maintained the truthfulness of his remarks. The vicar general met with him.
It is said that Fr. Gouldeman was recalled by his superiors and that the bishop agrees with their decision and withdrew his faculties.
This is exactly how things are supposed to happen.
How he appears to you is of no importance. Listen to what he says and appreciate his courage to tell the truth.
No, Anonymous, the priest does not “appear drunk or tired.” What an ignorant remark! This priest seems older, very experienced, very dedicated, and excellent!
What about the beginning? What about the part where he blows into the microphone?
I understand that maybe there is some loyalty or some tribalism going on here but objectively, have you ever seen a priest do this before?
Maybe he was up all night with a sick parishioner or something but it is not normal.
No, Anonymous, the priest did not “blow into the microphone!” Public speaking with microphones is always tricky. Go to your parish and get trained as a lector for Mass– you will see the difficulties with use of a microphone.
It is at 1:30-1:35 in the video.
Ridiculous!
Tyler Clementi was an 18-year-old, openly-gay college student, who committed suicide in 2010. He told his college.roommate he had a “date,” and asked for his roommate to leave, so he and his “date” could do gay sex acts. So– guess what, Tyler’s roommate played a very cruel “prank,” before leaving– and turned on his computer camera, aiming it secretly at Tyler’s bed. And he and all his buddies watched the “pornographic show” from a distance. Next, they shared it online, and Tyler got harassed. So– he killed himself. College students should all be kicked out of school for any kind of immoral sex acts– just like it was, long ago. And any kind of obscene language or pornography should be strictly illegal, on all types of media– and offenders should be kicked out of school. Tyler’s family started this anti-bullying organization after his suicide. Sorry for the family’s loss– but the USCCB should not be involved with them. Instead, they should support the chaste Catholic “LGBT” group, “Courage.”
And teach morality. so many sins…
If they were so proud and open about themselves as they claim they wouldn’t kill themselves. They aren’t proud. Pride and pride month are a lie and an attempt to compensate for self-loathing. As much as some priests compensate for their self-loathing by going in the other direction of stern rebuke and condemnation from a standpoint of hyperorthodoxy. Think about all the “orthodox” darling priests who have turned out to be gay and active but in secret.
I was looking forward to Bishop Rojas taking over as Bishop of the San Bernardino Diocese. Sad to say it only took a few months to see that little has changed in this Diocese. So my wallet will continue to remain closed.
Listen to the whole homily. He blows into the microphone as an object lesson, as it was Pentecost Sunday. Bishop Rojas coward that he is, would not even speak to us directly but sends a lackey who can’t even pronounce Fr Francis name correctly. And didn’t address the real issue. Pretend to be an orthodox Bishop publicly, then cowtow with he likes of Tobin.. Yech! Fr Francis has many rough edges as we all do but is a holy priest and has helped so many in chastity and clearly teaches the faith. I don’t know where my family would be were it not for his help. I fast and pray for all involved. It has been heartbreaking to feel so dismissed by the Bishop and insulted, it’s not okay. Feels emotionally and spiritually abusive and reminds me of how powerless we are to be on the receiving end of the Bishop Rojas Smackdown. ? Whose the bully again??
“Bishop Rojas agrees with the church that homosexual behavior is a disorder and that all homosexual behavior is a sin.”
From the FB video linked above.
Well golly, that should put an end to all the comments criticizing this bishop. He did the right thing.
Anonymous: “Bishop Rojas agrees with the church that homosexual . . .”
According to the transcript, it’s only Fr. Partida’s personal interpretation of Bp. Rojas’s words to him that the Bishop agrees with the Church regarding homosexual behavior in particular.
Indeed, Fr. Partida appears to be doing a whole lot of interpretation of the Bishop in the video, and after signing a letter like Rojas did, anything less than crystal clarity is unacceptable if in fact Rojas condemns homosexual acts as he should.
Charity demands that level of clarity, and all the laity have a right to it.
I do know where you saw the transcript but Fr. Partida states in the FB video that Bishop Rojas allows him to share that he 100% in line with the Church’s teaching.
Click the link in the story. That part starts at about the 6:00 mark.
@Anonymous:
Notice Fr. Partida’s interpolation. He says, “which means that Bishop Rojas agrees with the church that homosexual behavior is a disorder and that all homosexual behavior is a sin.”
“Which means”? Sorry, but a phrase like this indicates that Fr. Partida is drawing an _inference_ from what Bp. Rojas allegedly told him, which is not the same as merely reporting what the Bishop actually said.
Perhaps Bp. Rojas really did say that he condemns homosexual behavior in particular. But Fr. Partida’s manner of speaking doesn’t justify believing that. Not in this video.
I think you are just not accepting that the bishop believes homosexual behavior is a sin.
There is this “thing” on the Internet where people want to believe that the bishops are worse than they actually are. People want to think they are gay and they cover up for molesters and they misuse money and whatever else.
This is sinful.
Jon, the vicar said the bishop is 100% in line with church teaching. If you said you were 100% in Los Angeles, it’s not an erroneous extension to infer that you are 100% in California.
100% in line with Catholic teaching means 100& support of Catholic teaching means zero disagreement with Catholic teaching.
Logic isn’t your strong point.
Anonymiss: “the vicar said the bishop is 100% in line with church teaching.”
Fr. James Martin will also tell you that he is 100% Catholic. And Nanci Pelosi will tell you she’s 100% pro-life. Only idiots take them at the word.
Anonymiss: “if you said you were 100% in Los Angeles, it’s not an erroneous extension to infer that your are 100% in California. . . . Logic isn’t your strong point.”
Logic? So then you know the difference between inference and implication? Your poor analogy suggests you don’t.
But even if your belief about Bp. Rojas is true, that doesn’t mean it’s justified. Veracity and warrant are different things.
And remember that, even if Bp. Rojas does in fact share the Church’s position on homosexual acts, that alone doesn’t free him from the charge of scandal. His signing of the LGBT letter is scandalous whether or not he supports the Church’s teaching.
Here is the unedited video of Fr. Francis Gloudeman’s homily: https://rumble.com/vhjhvj-liberal-catholicism-is-not-of-the-holy-spirit-fr.-francis-gloudeman-o.praem.html
I’m shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
Bishop Rojas, you have my admiration and support.
Crest keeps away the Cavity Creeps.
Keep in mind that this priest created a lie about what the Bishop signed, used that lie to take his Bishop to task for his made up narrative, then completely misstated Catholic teaching on the subject. All in one very public homily.
Should the priest have his faculties removed for this? Maybe not, but I’m guessing there is a lot more behind this than meets the eye.
No he didn’t lie YFC, Rojas signed the document from the pro gay front group.
Father never “created a lie.” He expressed a reasonable interpretation of a document publicly signed by the bishop. If the bishop never held the view ascribed to him, then he could’ve just (a) apologized for recklessly confusing the faithful and (b) asked for a clarification of his views to be read at the diocese’s parishes. Problem solved.
But no. Bp. Rojas has chosen rather to smear Fr. Gloudeman — a priest with years and years of faithful service and sacrifice in the SB Diocese — and to deny any personal wrongdoing.
Yet the bishop is most certainly in the wrong. Bishop Alberto Rojas has gravely scandalized Catholics and dishonestly tried to deflect responsibility of his scandalous behavior — and all at the expense of a faithful CA priest who’s dedicated hours upon hours of his time and life to hear confessions, celebrate Mass, and feed the Our Lord’s sheep, attracting Catholics from numerous Southern California counties.
I can always predict which side the named commenters will come down on. The schism is definitely real.
Anonymous,
Schism doesn’t mean having a mere difference of opinion. Rather, schism is a true rupture in communion with the Bishop of Rome. It’s the creation of a new church (e.g. Orthodox, Lutheran, SSPX, etc.).
Juan, sorry but he lied. He also lied about what the church teaches. None of it was a reasonable interpretation. And to make matters worse, and probably an indication of his own guilty conscience, the homily goes on to condemn those who tell lies.
YFK: “He also lied about what the church teaches.”
Then you don’t understand what he was he saying; or else you do, but you’re just lying about him lying. Whatever.
As for what the Church teaches: all homosexual acts are grave sin and, unless repented of, preclude the eternal reward of Heaven.
You agree with that, right? You’re actually Catholic?
I suspect Fr. Gloudeman told some people in the confessional not to perform certain serious sins or refused to give them absolution because they were unrepentant. I think they got angry and went to the bishop. Considering the bishop signed that letter to Pope Francis without clarifying that certain things WERE sins, I assume he agrees with what they were doing. No other way to interpret it.
Anne TE, what?
You used to be a good Catholic and I think you still are but that post made no sense and you seem to be getting influenced away from true Faith by the Internet.
Anonymous on June 24, at 4:56 pm. Such things happen. Several years ago there was and still is a good priest at a church I attended. He was firm but compassionate. A homosexual man got angry because he said the priest told him how unhealthy his behavior was and that he was likely to die early from it. He taped what the priest told in the confessional, without taping what he had told the priest before hand. (to be cont.)
( Continued) The man then said he had his parents listen to the tape — which I doubt he did– and that they agreed with him that the priest was wrong. Then he posted a complaint on the secular YELP website. All it did was to make the practicing homosexual man look like a fool for posting it.
Many years ago, I myself, had to correct a priest because he ranted and raved about a bishop because he had told his people not to go to the decadent Gay Pride Parades. Luckily he did not mention the bishop’s name.
YFC is wrong as usual trying to convince us that Church approves of homosexuality, when it clearly does not. He is an avid disciple of the church of Jimmy Martin. YFc why do you continue to post on this site, you must know by now that you will never convince any of us that the Church approves of sodomy.
I’m not trying to convince you or anybody else about what the Church teaches. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation that the Church clearly teaches is morally neutral. Please read the Catechism. You don’t need any convincing from me or have to take my word for it.
Morally neutral?
I’ve read the catechism and that phrase is not in there.
I’ll try to post the teaching but often CCD does not post that. the numbers are 2357-2359.
YFC,
It depends upon what you mean by homosexuality. The mere inclination to engage in same-sex sexual activity is not sinful. Acting on the impulse is. Clarity is important.
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.”141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
When searching for the topic, I came across some quotes of this that were edited to exclude some of what is in the catechism.
Here’s where I disagree with YFC. The Church does not teach that homosexuality is morally neutral, even if not acted upon. The homosexual inclination itself is taught to be an inclination to a grave, objective moral evil. The inclination is decidedly not morally neutral because acting upon it is sinful and can never be good. An inclination to evil cannot be neutral. It’s not like having a preference for vanilla over chocolate. That would be morally neutral.
Your Fellow “Catholic”:
You’re obviously deflecting.
I would disagree with saying that the inclination to engage in same sex sexual activity is not sinful.
I think that is going too far.
Recognizing that one has an attraction to the same sex is not sinful.
Anytime it goes beyond an unwanted attraction into thinking about actual sexual behaviors it is sinful. Intrusive thoughts that are immediately rejected are not sinful.
This is how it is with opposite sex attraction so I don’t see why it would be different with same sex attraction.
Anonymous (1:52 am),
Yes, you made an important distinction that is true. Let me go a little further.
Homosexual attraction, by itself, is not sinful.
Actively entertaining homosexual desire is a venial sin.
Engaging in homosexual activity is a mortal sin.
I am not sure what you mean by actively entertaining homosexual desire but indulging in sexual fantasies should be confessed as impure thoughts.
I mention because I have run across things online and in real life where people did not believe that thoughts could be sins but yes they are and you mention them in confession but not in detail.
You should confess bad thoughts about others, thoughts of suicide or murder or harming. Temptations are not sin but if you do not immediately reject the thought, then it is. Most of these are probably not grave sins, though.
Seldom agree with YFC but he’s right this time and Juan is totally wrong. But Trads like Juan won’t ever admit they’re wrong because schism is their religion.
You mistakenly use the word “schism” to mean “those who prefer the Church’s sacred traditions.”
Anonymous, you sound ridiculous all the time with your “trad” and “schism” talk! You mistakenly use the word “schism” to mean “those who prefer the Church’s sacred traditions.” Not very smart!
Sacred Tradition is a huge part of the Catholic religion!
His faculties are removed in the Diocese of San Bernadino because his order recalled him and he will no longer be in that diocese. It is not really a punishment for what he said If you have watched the video of the homily, I think you will have some concerns about the priest’s health. First impression even when he is reading the Gospel is that something is wrong with him.
Lesson to priests… stick to giving safe homilies with jokes and feel-good stories about being a nice person.
It’s all so hopeless now everywhere
Anonymous,
It seems so. The disaster, though, is only acute in dioceses with corrupt bishops. Take heart and keep up a good attitude. Despair is of the Evil One.
I concur with those who believe Fr. Gloudeman said many imprudent things in that homily (thank you to those who posted links).
That said, as I asked, what did he say that was untrue?
(I think he was wrong about saying some physicians’ opinions regarding the COVID vaccine are in line with the Holy Spirit, while other physicians’ opinions are not. That’s not a matter of Church teaching that should be in a homily either. I don’t know enough about the Diocese of San Bernardino to know if what he said is true.) I hope he spoke privately with the bishop first and has written the pope.
Yet, my previous point about the blatant double-standard remains. Orthodox priests, like Fr.s Gloudeman and Altman, are immediately disciplined if they err in any way while dissenting, heterodox priests like James Martin and the German priests “blessing” “gay unions” are not disciplined at all for their even more public actions.
Will any priests in the Diocese of San Jose be courageous enough to speak out if Archbishop Mitty High School goes ahead next week with an abortion, “gay marriage,” gender fluidity promoting president and its nympho librarian? Or, will their silence result in parents and children being led into sin (which leads to destruction and death)?
May God deliver them from their fear and silence. Pray for bishops and priests.
I’ve lost respect for the Norbertines because of this. Notice how quiet they have been.
Catholic infighting such as displayed here is a real turnoff. As if the churches problems aren’t enough we have Catholics picking fights with one another over homilies. Just stop it already.
Anonymous,
This isn’t a fight over homilies. This is a fight about the conduct of a petty tyrant bishop.
What did the bishop do but defend himself against false witness?
Anonymous,
It seems that you might not be familiar with either good management or good leadership techniques. It’s a very poor practice to utilize a near-maximum penalty for a first offense.
The exception to this is if a manager wishes to instill terror and fear in his subordinates. However, the use of terror and fear is typically the worst method to use to lead men, especially in stressful time such as ours.
San Bernardino appears to have a tyrant bishop who seeks to manage a sad diocese – a true pity.
You assume it was a first offense. Perhaps there’s more you don’t know. Like maybe a birdie told me something that the priest in question had been warned about before and this viral video was the last straw. Notice the Norbertines have not challenged the decision. Notice that it was all done in accord with Canon Law. You can’t fault the bishop one bit for anything he did.
Steve Seitz, maybe you don’t like how it was handled, but this is not a management issue. Every thing was handled properly. I know some people have issues with it. Nothing was done incorrectly.
Father Gloudeman obeyed his superior. As he should have.
Removal of faculties is not a penalty. Since he is a priest of a religious order, it just means he won’t be in that diocese.
Faculties protect the faithful.
I guess you approve of the more sodomy supporting orders
I share your concern as well. Not a single Norbertine will publicly defend Fr. Gloudeman? Father’s superior hushes Father but doesn’t say a peep about Bishop Rojas’s behavior?
Dear Norbertines of St. Michael’s Abbey:
Quo vadis?
I knew Fr. Francis, who was “Brother Francis, in the days of Operation Rescue when my wife and I lived in Alhambra, CA. He and other Norbertines were courageous and consistent about showing up on the sidewalks in person, in front of the abortion mills to help save babies and mother’s from the horror of abortion through peaceful prayer and witness, sometimes risking arrest to do so. Father Francis also devoted many, many days and hours tending the education and spiritual needs of the children of all of us Homeschooling families. He was then, and I believe, is now, a true SHEPHERD following in the footsteps of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus always tended to His sheep, but He also did not shy away from chastising the powerful religious leaders of the time who were way off track.
Fr. Gloudeman is part of a Religious order rather than a diocesan order and I have no doubt that he will follow the orders of his Superior in this matter and my family and I will be praying for him. But I for one am sick and tired of seeing good priests taken away from us because they choose to stand up for the TRUTH against, in my opinion, their “Bad Apple Bishops”. Yes — some of these good priests can take their cases to Rome. But all too often the Vatican lets these cases drag on for years and years and years until people in the pews have forgotten them and/or until the priest in question reaches retirement age. Then, as in at least two cases I personally know of, the Vatican rules in favor of the now forgotten priest.
Maybe the problem is that Vatican II required homilies. Let’s go back to no homilies at Mass, then we wouldn’t have these problems with priests speaking out of line.
And Mass would be over in 40 minutes!
What did he say that was untrue? That the bishop signed a document that said homosexuality was healthy, normal. In the Facebook video linked about, the father says that Fr. Gloudeman came to understand that what the bishops signed was a document against bullying. This is about 3:45.
The ghost enters at 3:30.
What did he say that was untrue? That the bishop signed a document that said homosexuality was healthy, normal. In the Facebook video linked about, the father says that Fr. Gloudeman came to understand that what the bishops signed was a document against bullying. This is about 3:45.
The ghost enters at 3:30.
It’s hard to keep track of all the comments, and there seem to be at least six different Anonymous posters, so it’s hard to keep track of who says or thinks what.
That is the point. On another article, someone wrote that they go to Protestant church. Then someone with the same name comments on a completely different subject and someone jumps her case and taunts her about returning to the Church.
This is why we post anonymously. to stay on the subject.
Whew! Lots of interesting comments. Thank you to those who complimented me on my comment from last week. To answer some questions: yes, Palm Springs has a lot of residents who are gay identified. The priests of the Missionaries of the Sacred Heart minister to the parishes here and it saddens me that they are able to get away with saying such things as these: https://www.sttheresaps.com/gifted-and-called-ministry I see that folks like Voris are now going after Bp. Rojas, but I think it was mainly Bp. Barnes who got away with such things for many years without getting called out. Thank you for the prayers.
TTLC: I’m glad you posted that link. What Fr. John Kavcak writes is unacceptable. Worse, I did a search of the stated “coordinator” of that group Mr. JW, and I see on several websites that he has a “husband” who is a somewhat prominent figure in the Palm Springs area. Even worse, it looks like this group at St. Theresa may be “ministering” to minors. Bishop Rojas does indeed need to put a stop to this “Gifted and Called” group.