The following comes from a March 3 posting by Michael Sean Winters in the National Catholic Reporter.
In Lent, the Gloria and Alleluia are suppressed in the liturgy, but there is nothing to prevent the good people of San Diego from using these expressions of Christian joy in casual conversation today as news spreads that they have a new bishop. And not just a new bishop: San Diego hit the jackpot in Bishop Robert McElroy, until now auxiliary bishop of San Francisco.
+McElroy is hardly an unfamiliar name here at NCR. Back in 2010, my colleague Tom Roberts profiled +McElroy at the time he was named an auxiliary bishop. Roberts was there covering a different story, but kept hearing about how wonderful the new auxiliary was. As he wrote at the time:
“From Catholics deeply involved in the church of San Francisco to academics and fellow priests to old hands in the press, the reactions to his appointment — almost always unsolicited — ran along two main tracks: He’s a terrific pastor who knows how to listen and negotiate and arrive at consensus (and gives great sermons, as well), and he’s a brilliant man with a pile of advanced degrees. He also leaves a trail of writings on topics such as war and peace and opposing use of the Eucharist as a sanction against politicians — stands that are rarely on the resumés (at least openly) of rising stars in the universe of the episcopacy.”
Everything I have learned about +McElroy since then confirms Roberts’ early assessment. Bishop McElroy has a brilliant mind and the heart of a pastor.
His writings have been regularly linked here at Distinctly Catholic. One evening, I heard the bishop speak at an event about polarization and politics at Georgetown organized by John Carr and his Initiative on Catholic Social Teaching. The bishop’s talk was excellent, and I link to it again.
After +McElroy spoke, someone said his talk was “balanced,” but that description suggests picking evenly from both sides of the partisan divide. That is not at all what +McElroy did. Instead, he went to the roots of the political craft, examining what politics is for, or claims it is for, what is the basis upon which it makes its claims and contours its methods of argumentation. This was no mere balance, but an appraisal of the foundations of the kind one does not hear often enough. The fact that this appraisal yielded a balanced outcome evidenced a pastoral astuteness, to be sure, but in a room full of somewhat jaded Washingtonians, that was not what impressed. What was impressive was +McElroy’s ability to concisely identify deeper challenges for our politics than what garner the headlines and his challenge to everyone, no matter what their partisan affiliation, to re-examine their positions in light of those challenges.
Bishop McElroy was the first bishop to publish an article that made the vital point that the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops had adopted the wrong moral framework in its document on voting “Faithful Citizenship” when it selected “intrinsic evil” as the basic starting point for its section on conscience. Whether an evil is intrinsic or not tells us nothing about the gravity of the evil and makes it impossible for the Church to speak intelligently on those issues that require positive moral action, such as poverty, focusing overmuch on the negative proscriptions of the moral law. He also set forth his belief that the bishops’ statements on politics should focus equally on poverty and pro-life issues as the touchstones of the Gospel mandate in civil society. (Anyone who thinks +McElroy is out to downplay the pro-life cause has never had a conversation with him.) It is far from clear the rest of the episcopal bench agrees, but there is no way for the bishops to make “Faithful Citizenship” cohere with Pope Francis’ magisterial teachings unless they follow the path +McElroy has charted.
Among all the vacant and superannuated sees, San Diego is the plum. Santa Fe, N.M., is the only archdiocese in the mix, but it is not nearly as large as San Diego, which has about 1 million Catholics and is the sixth or seventh largest city in the U.S. Like Spokane, Wash., it has a Catholic university in the diocese. Unlike Greensburg, Pa., San Diego sits along the U.S.-Mexican border, so the new bishop will face all those challenges and opportunities unique to governing a border diocese.
Last week, I called attention to a lecture delivered by Bishop Daniel Flores, who leads the diocese at the other end of the Mexican border in Brownsville, Texas. +Flores and +McElroy are the intellectual leaders of the next generation of U.S. bishops, and both are attuned to the need to get past the divisions of the past and forge a more unified Church here in the U.S., one focused on the Gospel, not the culture wars, a Church that encourages and does not castigate its people, one that is suspicious of extraneous ideologies that put ideas between people and the encounter with the Incarnate God. They have different intellectual styles and some different theological ideas, but the Church has always had such differences and should. But they have lived through the bitter divides that in some sense continue to frustrate the conference, and I hope these two young bishops can help their brother bishops chart a way to a less fractured future.
So San Diego rejoices today, as well it should. But the excitement extends beyond Southern California. As the news percolated up the last couple of days, a wave of enthusiasm and excitement lit up email boxes and cellphones across the country. The selection of Bishop McElroy tells us not only about this gifted prelate, but something about Pope Francis and the process of selecting bishops. An affectation for the traditional Latin Mass may no longer get one into the express lane. An intransigent, culture-war approach to the public square is no longer weighed on the plus side of the ledger, and a pastoral sensibility is no longer seen as a deficit. In a country where income inequality is becoming the defining issue of our political life, having a bishop in a prominent see who understands the problem and does not repeat the theological absurdities issuing from the Acton or Napa Institutes is very welcome indeed. Most of all, the priests and people of San Diego can look forward to a leader who will listen to them and love them. Congratulations, San Diego.
In case anyone has forgotten –
the ‘National Catholic REPORTER’ was literally condemned by their Diocese Bishop Helmsing in 1968.
https://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00Cofv
and
This condemnation has not been lifted. In 2013 the current Bishop reiterated the condemnation.
https://catholickey.org/2013/01/25/the-bishops-role-in-fostering-the-mission-of-the-catholic-media/
It is not a “Catholic” publication, and is guilty of FRAUD because it refuses to change its name.
Some people call it the “National Catholic DISTORTER”,
while others call it dirty, smelly “fishwrap”.
NCR Back page, Read the story on Kayla Mueller. Her depth of understanding about life, the creator and people is beyond anything I have learned as a Roman Catholic.
Dan, since your comment was made, the Distorter has come out in favor of sodomy, or as the NCR editors’ call it, “marriage equality.” https://ncronline.org/news/politics/editorial-ireland-vote-same-sex-marriage-watershed-moment-church-teaching
Bishop McElroy is WRONG.
Some things are just INTRINSICALLY EVIL – no matter what the circumstances.
Apparently he has not read the Doctrine of the Faith (contained in the CCC) or he has so much pride, he thinks he knows better than the Magisterium.
And as people have posted regarding the article – “For San Diego, Francis looks left” McElroy fully SUPPORTS SACRILEGE against the Body and Blood of our Lord.
“He also leaves a trail of writings on topics such …..opposing use of the Eucharist as a sanction against politicians”.
And in JAN 2014 wrote that those who choose to continue committing adultery should be able to receive HOLY COMMUNION.
This is an evil man, recommended by an evil Cardinal (Weurl), and appointed by Pope Francis.
‘Whether an evil is intrinsic or not tells us nothing about the gravity of the evil’ This is theologically correct. For more information, see Cathleen Kaveny’s “Intrinsic Evil and Political Responsibility” on the web.
Why does the evil McElroy keep insisting on Sacrilege ?
Is he blind, or so full of the Mortal Sin of PRIDE that he thinks he knows better than JESUS and Sacred Scripture?
Mt 7.6; 1 Cor 11:26-30.
CCC: “1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion MUST be in the state of grace.
Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must NOT receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.”
CCC: ” 1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is “sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed
together with the resolution NOT to sin again.”
CCC: ” 1355 ……Because this bread and wine have been made Eucharist (“eucharisted,” according to an ancient expression), “we call this food Eucharist,
and no one may take part in it unless he believes that what we teach is true, has received baptism for the forgiveness of sins and new birth,
and lives in keeping with what Christ taught. “
As I posted before:
NEWS FLASH – THERE IS NO NEED FOR the SACRAMENT of CONFESSION –
McElroy knows more than JESUS, and the Doctrine of the Faith.
Mt. 7:6; & 1 Cor 11:27-30
CCC: 2120. 1457; 1490.
– Quote from McElroy – Jan 26, 2015,
“I’ve always favored the Greek Orthodox position” in which a person can receive the sacrament of marriage only once, but a divorced person who is remarried in a civil ceremony is welcome to receive Communion, he said. “The church cannot begin with exclusion.” – McElroy
National Catholic REPORTER (Fishwrap)
McELROY supports SACRILEGE – Holy communion for those who choose to continue to live in the state of Mortal Sin.
He is doing the devil’s work.
One can not let some who choose to continue live in Mortal Sin receive Holy Communion, – – – and not ALL others who choose to live in Mortal – – – – – after all that would be Discriminatory and Exclusionary.
If these evil Bishops win, there will be no need for the Sacrament of Confession.
All faithful Catholics should be chanting the DIES IRAE, because the day of wrath is upon us!
You are a total pessimist. You worry too much. Jesus was an optimist. You need him in your life. Think love, peace and mercy for all, even your enemies. Ed
Dear me, you are joking right? You’re posting a parody of what empty-minded readers of the NCR claim to think?
God help you regarding your misunderstanding of the “good news” of the Gospels.
Well, it is good to hear something positive.
But why are you guys reading the Reporter?
Real Catholics read the Register.
Progressives read the Reporter
Modernists read the Register
New Traditionalists read the Remnant
Catholics read the CCC
Doesn’t our creator want us to seek and find? I am still searching. God,, the source of the universe, wants to save us all, even the NCR readers. Ed
Pope Francis appointed McElroy to be bishop of San Diego. Figures. What other liberals is he going to appoint as bishop to other dioceses? Maybe there should be a term limit on the time in office for popes. I know it’s not possible, but it would be nice if Pope Benedict XVI could return from retirement to keep the traditions and respect the Magisterium of the Church. We must pray daily for Holy Mother Church.
Oh for crying out loud, Sarah, stop weeping over nothing. A good bishop was appointed. Thank God for that.
…a ‘good’ Bishop was appointed somewhere at some point in time. But not in San Diego. So yes, we should thank God for good Bishops and their appointments, but cry out loud against those who seek to be something other than wholly Catholic while wearing the robes of Catholic clergy.
That said, it is wholly correct that we should weep for ourselves and for our children when the Good is crucified and the compromised given authority. Or would you tell Our Lord that He doesn’t know what He’s talking about, too?
Ann Malley I am just learning about this new bishop. How about that tea and you and I go and meet him and greet his excellency. Perhaps we can see for ourselves if all these rumors are true or false, that should help much better first hand.
Birds of a feather flock together.
“Birds of a feather flock together.” =
https://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/former-san-francisco-archbishop-calls-papal-reforms-ahead-conclave
Bishop McElroy was secretary to Archbishop John R. Quinn, 1982-1985.
NCR Today
Conclave 2013
STANFORD, CALIF. “With the world’s cardinals set to choose a new pope, Emeritus Archbishop of San Francisco John Quinn on Saturday called for major church governance reforms, including changes in the papacy itself.
“Media reports dealing with reform tend to focus on clerical celibacy and on the ordination of women and on the reform of the [Roman] Curia. … These are important topics, but it would be a mistake to stop there,” Quinn said.
“Today, if we want to deal seriously with the legacy of Vatican II and issues of reform we must have the courage to consider the deeper questions. This is not possible unless the paramount issue of the exercise of the papal office is addressed.”
Quinn, who spoke as part of a daylong symposium, “The Legacy of Vatican II: Personal Reflections,” at Stanford University, called for major decentralization of Vatican and papal authority. He said this could be achieved through the creation of regional bishops’ conferences and synods of bishops with decision-making authority.
This week’s conclave, he said, has potential to be one of the most critical moments in the history of the church since the Reformation. The cardinals “need to see themselves and the whole Catholic church poised at a moment of far-reaching consequences,” he said.
“…Today, if we want to deal seriously with the legacy of Vatican II and issues of reform we must have the courage to consider the deeper questions.”
I find this statement from +Quinn to be very telling as his courage to consider the ‘deeper questions’ allowed a flagrant pedophile who abused so many and very nearly myself (gotta love that face-to-face confession) to be merely transferred to be the ‘pastor’ of another parish in a neighboring city after having to pay off the parents of one child who actually had the temerity to question deep issues that many prefer to remain hidden. (Great method of handling matters ‘locally’.)
One young man committed suicide. And a huge payoff had to be wrestled from a hierarchy awash in the desire to pursue the new springtime that never came. All of that necessary reorg of the reorg of the reorg kept everyone busy though. That and the creation of every kind of department save one that actually taught the Faith as it was handed down.
But with more “major decentralization of Vatican and papal authority” in addition to the brave new potential of married priests and ordained women (very convenient for the priory if nobody is yet married – like coed dorms in college ;-) ,I can well imagine the very hard, core *pastoral* work that will be done for the people. What else could be the motivation? I wonder?
Thank you Catherine for reminding us of this wonderful address by the Emeritus Archbishop of SF. I encourage everyone to click on her link so that you can see the coverage in its entirety, and also to delve more deeply into the Emeritus Archbishop’s perceptions of what the Counsel Fathers were all about, and how the Counsel came to see the role of the Supreme Pontiff and those Bishops in communion with him.
YFC, what is most important is Sacred Scripture and Doctrine of the Faith which is contained in entirety in the CCC.
I would not recommend that anyone read anything from the heretical National Catholic REPORTER – which was condemned by their Diocese Bishop in 1968, and again by their Diocese Bishop in 2013.
(They have been asked NOT to use the name Catholic, yet they refuse.)
Thanks PETER for this information. I appreciate it. It helps….I keep forgetting and need reminding.
Can someone who is for giving the Eucharist to politicians who speak out for the killing of unborn babies really believe that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus?
Probably not. Even I have doubts about that.
The Catholic Church is already united around her Savior, Jesus Christ. No new mode of unity is necessary except the unity around Jesus Christ and His salvation of souls in word and sacrament, freedom from sin and freedom for eternal life in Jesus. This is what a priest or priest/bishop has to offer every human being. Whomever Bishop McElroy may attract to the church by way of his particular style, if that person come to me and my parish, he will be offered salvation from sin, the fullness of truth, and new life in Jesus Christ through our Catholic tradition of the last 2,000 years.
“…No new mode of unity is necessary except the unity around Jesus Christ and His salvation of souls in word and sacrament, freedom from sin and freedom for eternal life in Jesus.”
God bless you, Fr. Perozich, for having the ‘true’ humility of not believing that any human being can improve on Our Lord’s methods of choice. Jesus’s prayer for unity was to the Father, after all, not us. Considering Faith is a gift from the Father, I doubt our messing about with it will incur His good will. And no amount of playing the compromise game, complete with wordsmith option or plug and play doctrine options, will make us God even if ‘we’ think we’ve improved on what Our Lord told us to do.
Again, thank you.
+McElroy teaches in his Adult Faith Formation classes that there is “no theological difference between Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation.” He asked the parish members who attended his talk, “Do you want to know the theological difference between Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation? ZERO!” as he held up a big 0 with his fingers. For all his degrees, it seems like the poor bishop has been educated into heresy. We pray for the faithful in San Diego that they too are not reviled for their faithful adherence to Catholic Doctrine, Catholic Social Teaching and adherence to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Being “politically correct” and making fun of the simple faith of the people while wielding an overly triumphant sense of his intellectual superiority doesn’t make him a great bishop. Unlike the gentle wind of the Holy Spirit blowing where it will to anoint God’s people – this “wind” blows hard.
Sounds like McElroy is a Heretic in more ways than one.
Transubstantiation =
CCC: ” 1413 By the consecration the transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ is brought about.
Under the consecrated species of bread and wine Christ himself, living and glorious, is present in a true, real, and substantial manner: his Body and his Blood, with his soul and his divinity (cf. Council of Trent: DS 1640; 1651).”
CCC: “1376 The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: “Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood.
This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation.”
Consubstantiation =
” This heretical doctrine is an attempt to hold the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist without admitting Transubstantiation.
According to it, the substance of Christ’s Body exists together with the substance of bread, and in like manner the substance of His Blood together with the substance of wine. Hence the word Consubstantiation ”
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04322a.htm
I’m still trying to figure out how bread and wine are turned into Jesus. A real miracle is getting anyone to believe that a little white host is actually a piece of bread.
Doc Mugster – If it is true – that McElroy does not believe in Transubstantiation and said so publically – you have an obligation to report it to the US Papal Nuncio in Washington DC, Cardinal Mueller at the Vatican, and Pope Francis.
You along with at least one or two other first hand witnesses should sign the letter.
(If you have documentation in writing from McElroy the other witnesses will not be necessary.)
Heretic Bishops (and there are some) must be exposed for what they are.
My fear is that most of the Bishops who are supporting Sacrilege against the Holy Eucharist do not believe in Transubstantiation – which is the height of the Catholic Faith.
CCC: ” 907 In accord with the knowledge, competence, and preeminence which they possess, [lay people] have the right and even at times a duty
to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church,
and they have a right to make their opinion known to the other Christian faithful,
with due regard to the integrity of faith and morals and reverence toward their pastors, and with consideration for the common good and the dignity of persons .”
The National Catholic Distorter, opps, I mean Reporter, John Carr, support of the thirty year ago discredited Seamless Garment, for those that ripped the seams at that time?
What else do we need to know about the, and I use the word loosely, Shepherd of San Diego?
May God have mercy on Catholics there, acknowledge their upcoming suffering.
And ,may the suffering and conflict commence April 15.
John 19:23
When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of them, with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom.
Re: the seamless garment
Only one in four get it.
Bishop McElroy is a faithful, pro-life, intelligent Catholic.
We in the Archdiocese of San Francisco will miss him very much, and the people of the Diocese of San Diego are very blessed.
Don’t just quote some newspaper and then blast a man because the newspaper is biased: look at his life, his fidelity to the priesthood, his sacrifices, and give him a chance to serve the people of God as God ordained when he was ordained to the Episcopacy.
Bishop McElroy, “May God, who has begun the good work in you, bring it to fulfillment.” God bless you and your ministry!!!
Bill – we are looking at McElroy’s public statements and writings. Just because someone is a nice guy – does not make him a good Bishop, nor even a good Catholic.
Do you have any new info directly from him regarding his position in support of Sacrilege ?
McElroy clearly supports SACRILEGE against the Body and Blood of our Lord. –
Giving Holy Communion to those who wish to continue committing Mortal Sin. (-continued adultery/sexual acts with the Valid spouse of another, etc)
His position violates the Doctrine of the Faith.
CCC: ” 1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place.
Contrition is “sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed,
together with the RESOLUTION NOT to SIN AGAIN.”
CCC: ” 1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace.
Anyone aware of having sinned mortally MUST NOT receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.”
CCC: ” 1355 …..Because this bread and wine have been made Eucharist …. we call this food Eucharist,
and NO ONE may take part in it unless
he believes that what we teach is true,
has received baptism for the forgiveness of sins and new birth
and lives in keeping with what Christ taught.”
CHRIST taught about divorce and remarriage – Mk 10:6-12; Mt 5:32.
CHRIST taught about adultery, mercy, and required repentance – “Go and Sin NO more” Jn 8:11.
CHRIST taught that the GREATEST Commandment is to love GOD above all.
And Jesus taught always to forgive everybody. No exceptions. One blogger on National Catholic Reporter said that God forgives first before a sinner can say “Im sorry.” Makes sense to me.
Oh, Bill, why bother? I believe this blog is based in what is about to become his see, and the commentators here, lead by their alarmist headline writers, have already demanded that Bishop McElroy be excommunicated. Some of us who follow this blog have said frequently that no good deed here on CCD goes unpunished. And so it is with the appointment of Bishop McElroy to San Diego. If he has any wits about him, the first thing he will do is strip the name “catholic” from this website.
“If he has any wits about him, the first thing he will do is strip the name “catholic” from this website.” = kanonymous’s initial intentions come out.
But if Bishop Helmsing and Bishop Finn could not strip the name “catholic” from the National Catholic Reporter, by what miraculous power will Bishop McElroy strip the name “catholic” from this website?
It’s not the website’s fault that you use it to commit the grave sin of bearing false witness against one’s neighbor.
Or other’s use it to promote schism, heresy and error.
But the new bishop might want to talk to them about the 9 ways of being an accessory to another’s sin. You know the list.
YFC, why would be believe that the appointment of any DIOCESE Bishop would be a “good deed”
– when that Bishop supports Sacrilege and Violation of the teachings of JESUS as well as the Doctrine of the Faith ?
Based upon his public stand for Sacrilege – giving Holy Communion to those who choose to CONTINUE committing Mortal Sin, McElroy should never have been appointed a DIOCESE Bishop (as recommended by Wuerl).
Supporting, condoning or affirming the sins of others by a Bishop – not only causes confusion but can send Souls to Hell.
JESUS taught that REPENTANCE is REQUIRED, and that we must NOT profane the HOLY.
Doctrine of the Faith:
CCC: ” 1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed,
together with the resolution NOT to sin again. ”
CCC: ” 1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace.
Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must NOT receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance. ”
CCC: ” 1355 Because this bread and wine have been made Eucharist ….. no one may take part in it unless he believes that what we teach is true,
has received baptism for the forgiveness of sins and new birth,
and lives in keeping with what Christ taught.”
But if Bishop Helmsing and Bishop Finn couldn’t strip the name “catholic” from the National Catholic Reporter, by what power will bishop McElroy strip the name “catholic” from this website?
Bill writes…..”May God, who has begun the good work in you, bring it to fulfillment.” God bless you and your ministry!!!”
“We” in the Archdiocese of San Francisco will miss him very much, and the people of the Diocese of San Diego are very blessed.” = The proof IS and WILL BE in the pudding. San Francisco is currently a swirling *cesspool* of immorality.
Bring what to fulfillment? Christ ALREADY did that Bill. You must be talking about the *fulfillment of the next Synod agenda* or the favor asked by the brilliant influential Italian man who asked Cardinal McCarrick to do some lobbying fulfillment too.
Catholic Conclave – The madness of modernity of marriage
https://cathcon.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-madness-of-modernity-in-marriage.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FZMRq+%28Catholic+Church+Conservation%29
continued…….
Matthew Chapter 7 16-25 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.
Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock, And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a rock.” Douay- Rheims Catholic Bible
The author of this article is not one to count on for upholding true Catholic teaching, not to mention the paper itself! As said above, read the Register instead. I am not rejoicing at all for my diocese!
Agreed!!!
I think the headline is very misleading.
The article linked to in this article in which he is supposed to have said that intrinsic evil is the wrong moral framework- really does not say that. That is an interpretation of the author.
His point-that evil is not an option even when it is not an intrinsic evil-is not inappropriate at all.
I just noticed the picture.
Racism is an intrinsic evil.
This is an old comment, but one worth repeating: “Woe to the pastors, that destroy and tear the sheep of my pasture, saith the Lord. Therefore thus saith the Lord the God of Israel to the pastors that feed my people: You have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold I will visit upon you for the evil of your doings, saith the Lord. And I will gather together the remnant of my flock, out of all the lands into which I have cast them out: and I will make them return to their own fields, and they shall increase and be multiplied. And I will set up pastors over them, and they shall feed them: they shall fear no more, and they shall not be dismayed: and none shall be wanting of their number, saith the Lord. Behold the days come, saith the Lord, and I will raise up to David a just branch: and a king shall reign, and shall be wise, and shall execute judgement and justice in the earth” (Jeremias 23:1–5). Let the National Catholic Distorter try to distort that!
What on earth has this man done that destroys and tears the sheep of His pasture? It seems to me that a few ravenous wolves who gossip and libel and care not for truth are distorting the things this man has said and tearing him and his reputation apart.
Luke 23:41
McElroy supports SACRILEGE against the Body and Blood of Christ (as does Wuerl and Cupich), by giving Holy Communion to those who purposely choose to continue committing Mortal Sin.
Not only do they support SACRILEGE, but they go against JESUS teaching and the Doctrine of the Faith.
They think they know more than God with their pride, and aid and abet others in the commission of their mortal sins.
CCC: ” 1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is “sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the RESOLUTION not to SIN AGAIN.”
CCC: ” 1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace.
Anyone aware of having sinned mortally MUST NOT receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.
CCC: ” 1355 …..Because this bread and wine have been made Eucharist ….., “we call this food Eucharist, and NO ONE may take part in it unless
he believes that what we teach is true,
has received baptism for the forgiveness of sins and new birth,
and lives in keeping with what Christ taught.”
JESUS on Profaning the HOLY – Mt 7.6
(and Condemnation for receiving Holy Communion unworthily 1 Cor 11:27-30.)
JESUS about divorce and remarriage – Mk 10:6-12; Mt 5:32.
JESUS about adultery, mercy, and required repentance – “Go and Sin NO more” Jn 8:11.
“Thou shall not commit Adultery” – GOD’s Commandment
Ex 20:14 ; Deut 5:18.
Where’s the sacrilege in a sinner receiving holy communion? Jesus never told sinners to clean up their lives before shaking hands with the Lord.
Is there such a thing as an intrinsic evil that does not involve grave matter? The question is not facetious. I really want to know. While non-intrinsic evils may or may not be sinful, intrinsic evils always are. The four sins that cry to Heaven all involve intrinsic evils (please correct me if I’m wrong). People can mislead without technically lying. When Bishop McElroy blurs the difference between intrinsic versus non-intrinsic evils, he departs from Tradition and misleads the flock. The remarks of another poster (Peter) give another example of how this Bishop (and many more) have harmed the flock, this time by allowing scandal. The translation of Luke 23:41 is unfortunate. The Greek άτοπον is rendered “no evil,” when “nothing amiss” is the more correct. Clearly, Bishop McElroy has done something amiss, and, under Canon Law 212, it is our right and even a duty for us, the faithful laity, to say so—in charity—for the salvation of souls and the good of Holy Mother Church.
I understand all you Bible and Catechism references and you are correct. Where you may be incorrect is in present how these men actually feel about the issues?
I doubt seriously that you have any first hand knowledge of this. Do you know these people? Have they told you that they support giving Holy Communion to those who purposely choose to continue committing Mortal Sin?
I suspect hat you are reacting to internet rumors and gossip.
Can you show anywhere, even on the internet, where any of these men have supported this?
Let’s get things that might come up straight from the beginning. Every bishop has said that pro-choice politicians should not present themselves for Holy Communion.
The article by Bishop McElroy concerning the DENIAL of Holy Communion to pro-choice politicans who present themselves in defiance of the bishops, took no position on the subject.
The policy of the US Bishops on this is that each bishop decides for his own diocese. As far as I know, the Vatican has never addressed that decision.
As for divorced and remarried Catholics, it has no where been proposed that any and all divorced and remarried Catholics would be admitted to Holy Communion without repentance, but what has been proposed is that in some cases the mortal sin may not exist or could be repented of without dissolution of the marriage and thus the couple could be eligible to receive communion without committing sacrilege. I have not heard the specifics of any proposal. Have you?
Anonymous your comments are ones to consider. I hope that I can meet Bishop McElroy and discuss this to find out what is really true but even his words or writing have caused people here to be concerned. So I don’t know what to tell you, I’m sure that the ones who have posted real facts that cause concern, they do not have an agenda to persecute this bishop, they are just informing the lay faithful so they can be watchful and act if needed. Just food for thought. But you do bring up good charitable words to consider, we do not want to sin by willfully judging especially since most of us do not even know this bishop or have come across him. For me, only time will tell. Lets pray for this Bishop and for all who will come in contact with him, lets pray. We will see and pray for the best. May God lead our actions and ways. For God is just. His will be done not ours.
God bless you
Abeca (and anyone else) when/if you meet with McElroy –
please be certain to have the Sacred Scripture and CCC references with you – as provided by
PETER, MIKE March 8, 2015 at 7:43 am, and MAC March 8, 2015 at 7:32 am.
His position is “inclusion” and ignoring Doctrine for “pastoral reasons”.
Remember that – all sinners can be forgiven and receive the Eucharist PROVIDED they resolve NOT to continue committing their Mortal Sins.
The sin of the Bishop is giving Holy Communion to those who do NOT choose to REPENT, and purposely choose to continue in their Moral sins instead.
This is true of all Mortal Sins whether they be adultery, homosexual acts, pornography, fornication, etc.
Anonymous, either you are constructing a cover-up, or you do not pay attention to the world around you and the PUBLIC statements on YouTube or PUBLIC written statements of these Diocese Bishops.
They must take full responsibility for their own public words and public actions.
Google – Donald Wuerl, Blasé Cupich, and Robert McElroy on the internet. You will find YouTube videos, and/or articles they personally have written, and “public” statements they have made.
They call supporting Sacrilege (Communion to those who wish to continue living in mortal sin) being “inclusive” and being “pastoral, merciful, and/or charitiable”.
They divorce being “pastoral” from Sacred Scripture and Doctrine of the Faith (CCC).
WEURL: “Cardinal Wuerl: Who may receive Communion?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EilxXRaHhrk
CUPICH: on Face the Nation ” Chicago’s Archbishop Cupich Will Not Deny Pro-Choice Politicians Communion, Emphasizes Dialogue ”
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/01/chicago-archbishop-cupich-communion_n_6249544.html
and
https://www.onepeterfive.com/archbishop-cupich-says-yes-communion-pro-abortion-politicians/
McELROY: https://ncronline.org/news/faith-parish/san-franciscos-bishop-robert-mcelroy-francis-vision-restores-inclusion-church
You will find many more PUBLIC articles and statements directly from them on the Internet.
PETER is correct quoting both Sacred Scripture and Doctrine of the Faith.
I have provided you with TRUTH of the PUBLIC videos or statements or PUBLIC writings of Wuerl, Cupich, and McElroy – which THEY publically put out themselves.
They made their own PUBLIC statements and either they are truthful or they are LIARS.
There is no POLICY that the USCCB or CA Conference of Bishops may take about every Bishop deciding for themselves on Holy Communion for those choosing to continue committing Mortal Sin.
These groups have ZERO authority to make such a decision – in violation of Sacred Scripture and the Doctrine of the Faith.
Those who are divorced and civilly remarried and continue a sexual relationship may not receive Holy Communion per Doctrine of the Faith. They are continuing to commit ADULTERTY with the VALID spouse of another.
If they live in complete CONTINENCE (another divorce is not necessary), and are sorry for their sins, they can receive the Eucharist starting with the Sacrament of “Penance”.
This is Doctrine of the Faith and is in the 25 year old CCC.
CCC # 1650.
Those who are DIVORCED and NOT civilly remarried are not committing adultery (sexual relationship with the valid spouse of another), may receive the Sacraments.
Anyone who believes their first Marriage was NOT VALID should contact their Diocese Tribunal Office for more info and for forms.
Make no mistake about it: An ongoing SEXUAL relationship with someone else’s VALID SPOUSE is continuing to commit Adultery – per JESUS.
Excellent comments MAC, MIKE etc
Bishop McElroy is a WOLF IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING!! A false, worldly “Catholic” bishop! He sold his soul to the Devil, a long time ago!
I wonder if he would be so “pastoral” if the pro-choice “Catholic” politicians who want to receive Communion were “Close the Border” on “immigration.” Most pro-choice “Catholic” politicians also seem to be pro-illegal immigration.
” Grief Counselors Dispatched To San Diego After New Progressive Bishop Named ”
https://www.eyeofthetiber.com/2015/03/05/grief-counselors-dispatched-to-san-diego-after-new-progressive-bishop-named/ :(
Bishop McElroy and retired Archbishop Quinn are BOTH “Catholic FRAUDS!!” They are over-educated, Godless, secular, immoral, liberal-intellectual “do-gooders,” with big Church titles. WORLDLY MEN!! They are NOT true Catholic leaders, devoted to Christ– dedicating their lives to leading the “fallen” secular world, to Our Lord!!
Linda Maria, you do this all the time. How can you profess to be a Christian and call people non-Catholic in the way that you do. You may not agree with them, but your descriptions are terrible. Have you met these two men that you hate so much? Have you studied where they have and taken the courses they have taken? Should all Catholics be uneducated? Is it wrong to be worldly? I have been listening to Youtube presentations the Bishop has made. They are full of the faith, Gospel based, pastoral and helpful for those with whom he is speaking. Name calling, of the sort you consistently present, is a clear indication of what must be a high level of hate or despair on your part. Someone in the Church must have hurt you badly to evoke such vile. It certainly not the way Jesus would speak to people.
“…Is it wrong to be worldly?”
Catholics are called to be in the world, but not ‘of’ the world, Bob One. As to that, Our Lord spoke the truth to folks. Hard truths that made some walk away. A servant cannot be more than his master. And if the Master thought to tell the truth, all of it, so should the so-called disciples. Else wise they are setting themselves apart from the very source of authority which is Truth.
You assert to Linda Maria, “…Someone in the Church must have hurt you badly to evoke such vile.”
While I cannot speak for Linda Maria, I can speak for myself with regard to +Quinn. What did he do? Nothing. That is he allowed that which was vile, sinful, damaging AND illegal to go unpunished and unchanged to the ongoing detriment of souls. Eternal detriment in the case of one. Souls of my acquaintance, Bob One. And yes, I’ve met +Quinn.
But it is just such a disconnect from what Christ and His Church teach and what those ‘shepherds’ who style themselves pastoral who allowed for the above scenario. So it is not so much whether or not, Linda Maria, or any individual ‘agree’ with these prelates, rather the issue at hand is whether or not these prelates ‘agree’ or at the very least adhere to what the Master taught. Signs point to no. And the more friendly they sound when speaking just makes them all the more dangerous.
You don’t know what you are complaining about. Get over your useless judgmentalism.
Apparently McElroy does not want people to know those MORTAL SINS that are not a matter of prudential judgment and circumstances – such as Abortion, Euthanasia, Contraception, Homosexual Act (Marriage), Human Cloning and Human Embryonic Stem Cell Research.
He does he not want people to know the TRUTH.
However, the USCCB “Faithful Citizenship” is in error, and makes some things that are correctly prudential judgment “intrinsic evils”. (That is why it is a silly 40 page document that most Catholics ignore.)
What is wrong with these Bishops ?
Hmmmm… “An intransigent, culture-war approach to the public square is no longer weighed on the plus side of the ledger, and a pastoral sensibility is no longer seen as a deficit…”
Interesting statements, particularly as they lack any definition beyond the superficial.
Would it be considered and act of ‘Intransigent cultural war” to oppose public execution for political thought crime? How about losing your business for failure to pander to the Attack on Marriage?
Would it be considered “pastoral” to encourage the pathological nightmare of gaily spreading ever more treatment resistant strains of STDs spread through the ‘Conga Line of Buggery’ – so long as done in a tolerant / non culturally judgmental manner?
Is the Annual Tax Subsidized Anti-Male Hate Riot in San Francisco known as the “Dyke March” (which kicks off from the steps of Mission Dolores) and although refusing to apply for any permits or pay any costs Bans Male Citizens from the Public Streets – a Cultural or Pastoral Event?
There are the poor and the poor. Some people are poor through no fault of their own — sometimes because they refuse to do wrong. Others are poor because of bad choices and sins in their lives. Some poor can be helped and other poor will never be helped unless they choose to change their behavior. People who by the grace of God try to do good cannot be blamed for all the inequality of the poor. The profits of some of the rich that I find contemptible is that of those who get it from pornography, prostitution, abortion and the like. These things often contribute to the poverty and unhealthiness of others and help destroy families.
“The Church for many reasons is weak, so faith is weak; when faith is weak, Catholics are weak, and the world is inflamed with evil and terror.”
—David Domet
Another weak episcopal leader, another weak link in the chain, and the world continues its conflagration, while the Church disintegrates.
Any Diocese Bishop who VIOLATES these teachings sins MORTALLY.
He commits SACRILEGE against the Body and Blood of Christ if they
support or advise others to commit Sacrilege,
or require their Priests to give Holy Communion to anyone who purposely chooses to continue committing Mortal Sin.
Not only do they support SACRILEGE, but they go against JESUS teaching and the Doctrine of the Faith.
They think they know more than God with their pride, and aid and abet others in the commission of their mortal sins.
CCC: ” 1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place.
Contrition is “sorrow of the soul
and detestation for the sin committed,
together with the RESOLUTION not to SIN AGAIN.”
CCC: ” 1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion MUST be in the state of grace.
Anyone aware of having sinned mortally MUST NOT receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance. ”
CCC: ” 1355 …..Because this bread and wine have been made Eucharist …… NO ONE may take part in it unless
he believes that what we teach is true,
has received baptism for the forgiveness of sins and new birth,
and lives in keeping with what Christ taught.”
JESUS on Profaning the HOLY – Mt 7.6
(and Condemnation for receiving Holy Communion unworthily 1 Cor 11:27-30.)
JESUS about divorce and remarriage – Mk 10:6-12; Mt 5:32.
Did Jesus knowingly “support sacrilege “of his own Body and Blood when he gave Judas, his betrayer, the Eucharist at the Last Supper? Lighten up, brothers and sisters….