The following comes from a May 14 story on LifeSiteNews.com.
An Italian bishop has angered pro-life advocates at home and abroad after he told an interviewer May 12 that he has little time for the kind of pro-lifer who prays the Rosary outside abortion facilities.
“I do not identify with the expressionless faces of those who recite the Rosary outside the clinics who practice interruption of pregnancy, [‘l’interruzione della gravidanza’] but with those young people who are opposed to this practice and strive for the quality of life of the people, for their right to health, to work,” said Bishop Nunzio Galantino, secretary-general of the Italian bishops’ conference.
John Smeaton, head of the UK-based Society for the Protection of Unborn Children, has addressed a letter to Galantino asking him to retract the comments and requesting a meeting to discuss the matter.
“I really don’t think you would be saying, if national laws had allowed the killing of Catholic priests or Jews over the past few decades: ‘In the past we have concentrated too much on the killing of Catholic priests or Jews…’. Indeed, you would probably be saying, ‘We can never do enough to denounce this grotesque evil,’” Smeaton wrote.
But Galantino did not limit himself to a critique of the pro-life movement. Asked, “What is your wish for the Italian Church,” Galantino responded, “That we can talk without taboo about any subject of married priests, of giving the Eucharist to divorced persons, homosexuality, according to the Gospel and giving reasons for their positions.”
Responding to the question of whether the politically influential bishops conference will continue to press Italy’s Parliament to address the “non-negotiable values” of life, family and education, Galantino said, “We think about the sacredness of life. In the past we have not concentrated exclusively on abortion and euthanasia. It cannot be so; in the middle [of these two] there is the existence [of the person] that continuously develops.”
Galantino added that with the pontificate of Pope Francis, “the Italian Church has an extraordinary opportunity to reposition itself with respect to spiritual, moral and cultural expectations.”
In March, Pope Francis chose Galantino personally for the second-highest position at the Italian bishops’ conference, which the pope is hoping to reform. In a letter to the faithful of Galantino’s diocese in Calabria, Francis apologized for taking him to Rome. “I need Monsignor Galantino to come to Rome at least for a while. … I ask you, please, understand me and forgive me,” Francis wrote.
The comments have also aroused opposition in Italy where a woman has written that it was the prayers of those outside an abortion facility that helped her to realize the evil of abortion.
Gianfranco Amato, president of Jurists for Life, said that the letter was sent to him by an unnamed “woman of Romanian nationality” who lives in northern Italy. She asked that her open letter be published on the website of La Nuova Bussola Quotidiana in response to Bishop Galantino’s comments. The woman said she had already committed three abortions, and prayed the Rosary to help others avoid the “gloomy pain” that follows abortion.
“Your Excellency, I do not have the glossy face of an actress, I have a normal face equal to that of many other women, but it would be ungenerous to call it ‘expressionless’,” she wrote, adding that she understands that “as a man” the archbishop might not be capable of understanding what it means to lose a child.
“Three times I have suppressed the lives of the children I was carrying. Only the newfound faith through grace has made me realize the atrocity of what I did, and led me to a commitment to the defense of life,” she said.
“So, I found myself among those people who pray at those clinics before the acts that the Church rightly calls ‘abominable crimes’ are committed. If I decided to recite the Rosary in those places, it was only to beg a pardon for those poor women.”
“In the Church, Your Excellency, for what I did I did not feel judged. And that’s why I do not judge anyone. I only pray for those women who, sometimes ignorant, commit the same mistakes, falling, then, into the abyss of eternal remorse.”
To read the original story, click here.
Why did Pope Francis appoint Bishop Nunzio Galantino to the second highest position in the Italian Bishops’ conference? Was there no other bishop in all of Italy who could do the job? Is abortion one of the things for which Pope Francis will not judge people? I’m having serious doubts about Pope Francis’s judgment.
This Bishop is an example of many of the Bishops appointed since the Second Vatican Council. Pray for him and most of the Bishops of the United States who seem to exhibit the same mind set.
Apostasy is again rearing it’s ugly, hellish head. Do any of these bishops stand up for the Faith? They would rather, sadly, cooperate with the prince of this world and lead others into hell. The last days will see many follow the likes of Bishop Galantino into a denial of the timeless truths of Christ and His Holy Catholic Church. Domine, miserere nobis. +JMJ+
I saw this comment and I felt wronged by it. But we must forgive and love and obey him in all legitimate authority. I am sure that Pope Francis will discuss this with him.
You are wrong. Never follow Clergy who is not in full accord with the Bible and the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” – – – – This is how you will know the anti-Christs by their heresy and schism.
The Rosary is mentioned in 4 paragraphs of the CCC.
Kevin, you must ask to be molded into the image of our Lady.
The Bishop is just repeating what our PopeFrancis has said.
The elderly in Italy should get ready for the Death Panels. Euthanasia is already very popular in Belgium, Holland and Switzerland. As for the unborn, this appointment by Pope Francis is a triumph for the Culture of Death.
I applaud Bishop Galantino for reminding the faithful that the right to life is not merely about abortion and euthanasia, but also about the developing existence of the human person. I expect there are many faithful Catholics who have devoted their life to the faith who do not relate to those who protest day after day outside abortion clinics. In fact, rather than lead to conversion, their shocking images probably scare more people away from the church and her values.
Hearing a bishop say that he does not relate to such activities does not condemn them, but reminds the rest of us that though such protestors may be vocal, they are not the summation of Catholic action in the world.
“THOU SHALL NOT KILL” – God’s Commandment (not suggestion).
The right to life at all stages is paramount in loving your neighbor.
This bishop is not speaking the truth of the Gospel and is not representing the teaching of the Catholic Church. This bishop has an agenda to change the Church and strip it of its truth. This bishop is not doing what he solemnly swore to do as a leader in the Catholic Church- to lead the faithful in following Jesus who is The Way The Truth and The Life. And yes I believe that Our Lord and Our Blessed Virgin look with approval at those of us who are standing up to the culture of death and saving lives every day in front of these abortion mills. On September 11, 2001 terrorists killed 3000 Americans in a single day. Remember that 3000 American babies are killed each and every day in abortion mills in our country. Bishops should be the leaders in this fight against the culture of death, but if they will not do it, we will win the battle without them.
And yes, it is worrisome that our Pope Francis hand picked this bishop in such a prominent and influential position.
Amen, Danielle!!
Two peas in a pod !!
Danielle,
This is not the first rotten appointment Pope Francis has personally made. Cardinal Donald Wuerl comes immediately to mind!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
St Peter,
Many human persons are denied their existence through the act of abortion. Their “development” is woefully cut short.
Those who pray outside abortion mills are responsible for saving at least some lives.
If all Catholics took a pro-active stance with regard to abortion, Planned Parenthood and its progenies would be banished from the face of the earth. The silence and apathy of most Catholics with regard to abortion is truly shameful. Time Bishop Galantino was put out to pasture.
We are a house divided. I think abortion and euthanasia are the tip of the spear of the culture of Death aptly named by St John Paul.
So do you also oppose the showing of holocaust pictures as it may cut down on German tourism, ‘St. Peter’? Showing murder for what it is is the revelation of truth. Much like Catholics displaying the corpus of Christ on the Cross, that is the suffering Body, not just the ‘Risen’ Lord. Or no Christ at all.
This cringing from hard truths is hardly Catholic and anything but manly or virtuous.
Bishop Nunzio Galantino, secretary-general of the Italian bishops’ conference, may God forgive you. The path to Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops who lead God’s children astray.
Someone needs to send Bishop Galantino a copy of the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
With clergy like this, who needs enemies ?
At first I was shocked by this ChurchMilitantTV video:
But the truth becomes more clear every day.
https://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/vort.php
Pete – How true !
Thanks for the link of the evil within the Church.
And thanks for your urgent message to get everyone to read the Bible and the CCC so they won’t be mislead by sinful Clergy.
This is a good example of why Michael Voris is not allowed to use the word Catholic in the name of his website. It’s bunk, people, total bunk. The bishops are not guilty of what Michael Voris is trying to make it seem they are. Michael Voris has gone off the side of the Barque and is swimming with demons. Please pray for him. Mother Mary, save your son. Michael’s mother and brother, pray for him.
Some Cardinals and some Bishops (and their Priests by extension) are very guilty.
These do not do their jobs.
These do not teach according to the Gospel and the CCC.
These do not encourage the Laity to read the Bible and the CCC at home for any reasonable type of catechesis.
When was the last time any of us heard from our own Bishop or own Parish Priest about the mortal sins of contraception, etc ?
And Voris made it clear it is not all Bishops. Listen to it again if you missed it.
DR. EDWARDS, have you been out of the country?
Anonymous, Dr, Edwards is correct. ALL Bishops do not do their jobs as evidenced by the lack of catechesis of the Laity over the last 40 years.
CCC: ” 888 Bishops, with priests as co-workers, have as their first task “to preach the Gospel of God to all men,” in keeping with the Lord’s command. They are “heralds of faith, who draw new disciples to Christ; they are authentic teachers” of the apostolic faith “endowed with the authority of Christ.”
Note the words “FIRST TASK”.
Many do not even encourage the reading of the Bible and the CCC – thus relativism sets in Catholic society.
Dr. Edwards you are correct. We do have good priests that do their jobs but there are many who just water it down. We need more of the lay faithful to encourage their priests and Bishops of their duty.
Anonymous – they say the truth hurts. Are you in pain?
Detraction hurts. It is a sin.
Calumny hurts. It is a sin.
The Truth heals.
It does grieve me that so many choose evil rather than good.
So, yes, I am in pain.
It is evil to choose to believe evil of one’s neighbor.
Anony you are in pain? How so?
Anonymous, you said, “it is evil to choose to believe evil of one’s neighbor”.
“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:44.
After reading this post about what the Archbishop said regarding reciting/praying the Rosary outside of abortion clinics and his other comments, it is quite obvious that the Archbishop should be put on medical leave. He is in immediate need of spiritual guidance and mental health attention. We will pray the rosary for his recuperation.
Rather than calling for a retraction, I call for Pope Francis and Bishop Galantino to explain together the bishop’s statements. The explanation done in writing and
promulgated to all dioceses throughout the universal Church Militant.
Fr. Joe.
How about Pope Francis publicly explaing, in the Light of the Gospel, this and other of his terrible appointments!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Jesus, and the Catholic Church have never taught that all Bishops, all Priests, all Nuns, or all the rest of us are ALL going to get to Heaven.
If Bishop Galantino is the best that Italy has to offer – – – -it takes my breath away.
Unfortunately if there are enough Bishops like him, they will try to change Church teaching to their own image and desires at the upcoming October Synod.
(Apparently Cardinal Kasper is only one of a large group.)
JESUS said: “For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to new life, and those who find it are few.” Mt 7:13-14.
and
“Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many I tell you, many will seek to enter and will not be able.: Lk 13:7-28. (-for entire statement).
1) Pray daily for Pope Francis, and all Bishops that they do God’s will only.
This Synod in October can be very damaging to the Faith.
2) Read a Catholic BIBLE, and the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” – – – – so that enemies of the Church from within will not be able to mis-lead you or your family.
2) Stay close the Sacraments – both Penance and Holy Eucharist.
Yes Andy…..good advice for the faithful.
Excellent Point –
Let someone purposely dismember, chemically burn, or poison – while alive – this Italian Bishop (of other unfaithful Bishops) and perhaps he would change his tune.
Science has proven that unborn babies can feel at 8 weeks and 2 days. It is not only murder, but torture.
I had no idea that there were so many unfaithful Cardinals/Bishops within the Church today.
Bishop Galantino, Cardinal Kasper, Cardinal Baldiserri, Cardinal Mahoney, Bishop Gumbleton, Cardinal Joseph Bernardin (now deceased but did a lot of damage), etc.
But then again, significant numbers of Bishops have promoted heresy and schism throughout the history of the Church.
Hang on to your hats folks, here we go again.
Read those Bibles and CCCs so that no one can confuse or lead you down the wrong path – away from Jesus.
These clergy that are speaking to normalize divorce and remarriage within the Church are the human tools of you know who – and its not Jesus.
If it were not for the teaching of Jesus (bible), and the CCC, I would be lost.
If it were not for the Sacraments instituted by Christ – especially Penance and Eucharist – I would be long gone from this Church.
Thank you to Cal Catholic for this story. As our wonderful Bishop Flores told all of us at a 40 Days for Life gathering, “Never stop going to pray the Rosary at the abortions centers!”
Amen to that!
Rosemary,
Has Bishop Flores enforced Canon 915, if not, why not? He never did anything much about the pro-abort, pro-sodomite politicos in the Diocese of Orange either.
The Rosary is powerful, but I have too often seen cars with Rosaries and Brown Scapulars on their rear view mirror entering the abortion centers.
Don’t sell out so cheap, demand that your Bishop comply fully with the Teachings of the Church. Some of them use their feinted devotion to Our Lady to fool those who would be fooled!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Pray for all our clergy and church leaders. We need leaders to defend the Gospel of Life. Murder is murder whether its done inside the womb or outside. We are talking about a separate heartbeat, separate DNA, not the mothers body. Prayer is what we need to surround those clinics. God Bless those pro-lifers. Who else will speak up for the unborn if not all of us. The Church should be teaching us about the evils of sin and how it destroys the soul and destroys society. God have Mercy on us all.. especially those in Church leadership. We are not judged by cultural preferences. We are judged by what we know as truth which comes from the Gospel.
We need Bishops to teach the Gospel period, rather than trying to change it to support the vices that they and their supporters love.
CCC: ” 888 Bishops, with priests as co-workers, have as their first task “to preach the Gospel of God to all men,” in keeping with the Lord’s command. T
hey are “heralds of faith, who draw new disciples to Christ; they are authentic teachers” of the apostolic faith “endowed with the authority of Christ.””
Kasper et al need to read the 4 Gospels prior to trying to change any Church teaching of Jesus on divorce and re-marriage.
“Thou shall not commit adultery” – GOD – – – Ex 20:14
“Thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife” – GOD – – – Ex 20:17.
Mk 10:5-12 – JESUS
Mt 19:3-9 – JESUS
Some of these Cardinals/Bishops need exorcism themselves.
Joe,
Sorry to say that they have read them and rejected them. Like their Master, Satan, they think they know better than Our Lord!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Galantino sounds like Cardinal Joseph Bernardin (deceased of Chicago) and his heretical ‘Seamless Garment’ theory – basically All sins are the same.
Bernardin gave cover to the Democratic politicos for supporting abortion in the USA. Anything for a vote for the Party of Death.
btw it is Bernardin’s fault that the majority do not kneel at Holy Communion in the Ordinary Form of the Mass. Allowing illegal voting of those who were ineligible at the USCCB (aka USCC) because he could not get ‘standing’ passed by only eligible voting Bishops.
Phil 2:10 “that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and under the earth,”
Enemies from within.
Becky, the people do not kneel at Papal masses either. Was Bernadine responsible for that too?
Do not lie. No one can receive Holy Communion from Pope Francis without kneeling unless handicapped.
If you are taking about the million or so people outside at the Vatican when there is a Mass, there is nothing to kneel on.
Bernardin was instrumental regarding not kneeling for Jesus, during Communion in the USA.
Ummm, I received communion at a papal mass, an none kneeled. Please do no accuse me of lying.
Self Proclaimed “YFC”
You must have been dreaming, I have always observed many kneeling at Papal Masses!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
YFC, Becky said “kneel at Holy Communion”, not “Mass”. I indeed have seen people kneel to receive Holy Communion during Papal Masses. I think you owe her an apology. By the way, the first letter in the word “Mass” should be capitalized.
Split hairs all you want Tracy. Perhaps I should buy you some hair conditioner?
I see that YFC does not appreciate good counsel, isn’t it a surprise.
And don’t forget to buy her hair conditioner but you should buy yourself a heart for Jesus and in Jesus, so next time when one of the faithful speak to you, you will listen.
Cardinal Bernadin never advanced a concept that all sins were the same. He denounced those who did. He was vehemently pro-life.
“I don’t see how you can subscribe to the consistent ethic and then vote for someone who feels that abortion is a ‘basic right’ of the individual. I know that some people on the left, if I may use that label, have used the consistent ethic to give the impression that the abortion issue is not all that important anymore, that you should be against abortion in a general way but that there are more important issues, so don’t hold anybody’s feet to the fire just on abortion. That’s a misuse of the consistent ethic, and I deplore it.”
See his Consistent Ethic of Life at Priests for Life website. It is not heretical.
Cardinal Bernadin was staunchly pro-life, anti-abortion. .
https://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bernardinwade.html
“Joseph Cardinal Bernardin has deplored what he calls the “confusion and even scandal“ created by public internal dissent against official Roman Catholic teachings on abortion and has asserted that the church has a right to expect clear and unambiguous adherence to its formal posture from “those who teach or minister in its name.“https://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-03-14/news/8601190437_1_legitimate-catholic-position-vatican-reprisals-pro-life-activities-committee
You have linked to a different and later speech at St. Louis University.
Bernardin’s teaching on his “Seamless Garment” was given 3 months prior at Fordham University. – ” I addressed the topic of a consistent ethic of life. That lecture has generated a substantial discussion both inside and outside the Church on the linkage of life issues, issues which, I am convinced, constitute a “seamless garment.” ”
He got so much flack for his “Seamless Garment” at Fordham that he tried to fix things, but it was too late.
In his now-famous address at Fordham University, Joseph Cardinal Bernardin, argued that “the pro-life position of the Church must be developed in terms of a comprehensive and consistent ethic of life. Consequently, the Church should not just focus on fighting abortion, but also the nuclear arms race, capital punishment and poverty; and promote health care, immigration reform, and benefits for the unemployed. ”
Immigration reform and benefits for the unemployed is not the same as the right to life.
MAC, by your own quote, he didn’t equate them. He said it must be developed in terms of a consistent ethic of life. Why is this so difficult a concept to understand? A seamless garment takes in the right of the unborn, as well as those who struggle in life to lead a life of dignity and sufficiency, and those who are aborted during life due to unjust war, as well as those at the end of life who strive at the end of life with dignity.
Anonymous, stop trying to fool people.
Please supply us with a link to Joseph Bernardin’s actual “SEAMLESS GARMENT” theory which he gave at FORDAM UNIVERSITY.
(Not some LATER links when he tried to fix things due to foot in mouth because of his own previous beliefs and statement at Fordham.)
He did not support abortion, what he said was basically that abortion is the same as immigration reform, unemployment benefits, etc, etc.
Thus Bernardin’s “seamless garment.”
This violates true teaching of the Church.
Murder and torture of innocents born and unborn is a right to life and trumps Bernardin’s other social priorities whether he liked it or not.
https://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bernardingannon.html
This is his Fordham University lecture from December 1983. He was asked to speak about the bishop’s pastoral letter “The Challenge of Peace’ which is about nuclear arms. He introduced the Catholic bishop’s attitude on respect for life by connecting the Catholic teaching on war to the Catholic teaching on abortion.
“The more explicit connection is based on the principle which prohibits the directly intended taking of innocent human life.
The principle is at the heart of Catholic teaching on abortion; it is because the fetus is judged to be both human and not an aggressor that Catholic teaching concludes that direct attack on fetal life is always wrong. This is also why we insist that legal protection be given to the unborn.”
If one contends, as we do, that the right of every fetus to be born should be protected by civil law and supported by civil consensus, then our moral, political and economic responsibilities do not stop at the moment of birth. Those who defend the right to life of the weakest among us must be equally visible in support of the quality of life of the powerless among us: the old and the young, the hungry and the homeless, the undocumented immigrant and the unemployed worker.
“For the spectrum of life cuts across the issues of genetics, abortion, capital punishment, modern warfare and the care of the terminally ill.”
This quotes Bernardin’s SEAMLESS GARMENT theory.
I, Part II. Paragraph 15 – – – QUOTE: ” If one contends, as we do, that the right of every fetus to be born should be protected by civil law and supported by civil consensus, then our moral, political and economic responsibilities do not stop at the moment of birth.
Those who defend the right to life of the weakest among us must be EQUALLY visible in support of the quality of life of the powerless among us: the old and the young, the hungry and the homeless, the undocumented immigrant and the unemployed worker.
Such a quality of life posture translates into specific political and economic positions on TAX POLICY, EMPLOYMENT GENERATION, WELFARE POLICY, nutrition and feeding programs, and health care. Consistency means we cannot have it both ways.
We cannot urge a compassionate society and vigorous public policy to protect the rights of the unborn and then argue that compassion and significant public programs on behalf of the needy undermine the moral fiber of the society or are beyond the proper scope of governmental responsibility. ” UNQUOTE
This is Bernardin’s accurate SEAMLESS GARMENT – everything is equal.
(Caps within quotes are mine.)
This is what gave his Democrats cover in Chicago which spread throughout the USA to support pro-abortion candidates because all the social issues were EQUAL to life and death issues.
After all, everything must be supported EQUALLY. So if you must pick and choose between candidates, it can be whatever you want within the many categories listed.
It’s Bernardin’s ‘Seamless Garment’.
This violates Church teaching.
The converse of Bernardin’s Seamless Garment Theory then also becomes true.
If life and social issues are all equal, sins against humanity are all the same.
It does not say that all life and social issues are equal. It does not say that all sins are equal. You are misinterpreting it. It says: those who care about people before they are born, should care about them after they are born and those who care about people after they are born should care about them before they are born. It is all the same human life.
He does not address the seriousness of sin at all. He is saying “human life is sacred from conception to beyond natural death.”
You also might want to re-read Mathew 25:31-46, the parable of the sheep and the goats if you believe that neglecting the living is a minor violation of His Commandments.
This isn’t modernism. Read about Saint Lawrence, Saint Angela Merici, Saint Peter Claver, Saint Vincent de Paul, St. Elizabeth of Hungary, Saint Elizabeth of Portugal, St. Margarent of Scotland…the list goes on and on.
That’s not what he says. He doesn’t say they are all equal. He says we must make them all equally VISIBLE. Caps mine. Please stop making a faithful bishop into a heretic to suit your own politics becuase you find his exposition of the faith a little more challenging than you are ready to deal with.
“EQUALLY” says it all.
No, equally doesn’t say it all. He asks for equal visibility. Not equating sinfulness, as those who would declare Bernadin a heretic. You can’t just pick out a single word from an entire treatise and then declare a bishop a heretic. Have you ever heard of context? Meaning? Imagine what the world would come to if we just plucked single words out of our sentences and said -aaahhh!! All we need to hear is “xxxx”! My decision is made! They used the word “xxxx”, therefore they must be heretical, schismatic, evil, devils incarnate!! Nonsense. Please look to what is being communicated, not a single isolated word taken out of context.
… with the waters of many controversies and disappointments having flowed under this particular dam, I happened to speak slightingly of the seamless garment in something I wrote. To my surprise, I received a more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger letter from my old friend Cardinal Bernardin, telling me I was missing the point.
Among the considerations advanced by the cardinal on behalf of the consistent ethic was this: Aware of the flak the idea was receiving from conservative Catholic sources, he’d checked it for orthodoxy with Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, prefect of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and had received assurances that it was acceptable. Need I point out that Cardinal Ratzinger is now Pope Benedict XVI?
Russell Shaw
https://www.catholicity.com/commentary/rshaw/06695.html
Dr. Edwards, thank you for the quote you posted on May 17, 2014 at 2:30 pm as well as your comments, which I agree with. I couldn’t help but notice that nowhere in Bernardin’s quote do you see any mention of the death penalty.
I see your detractors are out in force! They took your statement “this violates Church teaching” and went on to accuse you of saying all sorts of things you never said!
Those of us who dare to point out the hypocrisy of those who justify voting for pro-aborts by using the excuse that they are for the poor, undocumented, and unemployed, etc. can always expect to have their detractors. Pro-aborts ‘care’ for the ‘poor’ by seeing to it that their numbers are controlled by abortion.
All sins are most certainly not of the same gravity!…this is another heretical modernist notion, that many protestant’s subscribe to and advance…not all sin is “DEADLY”…venial sins are most certainly not as grave as mortal sins, such as murder, adultery and heresy!…Consistently, YFC continues to spread his modernist value system on a conservative Catholic blog…have a moment of clarity…all that SSA, has deluded and compromised your powers of discernment when it comes to sin…is your conscience that compromised YFC?
Duncan, I accept your insult with humility. I live as I am able, a child of God.
If you embraced true humility, you would cease your futile attempt at poisoning the mind’s of Catholic’s and readers of this blog, by professing that SSA is something to be championed, and SSA romance is as valid and acceptable as heterosexual attraction and behavior (heterosexual romance, between a Catholic husband and wife) and furthermore a child of God would NEVER advocate this lifestyle…
Duncan, the man himself have you seen what YFC is up to? He is using this website and the words we say, name calling some of the faithful. Ann Maley exposed him through another thread.
For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong. 1 Peter 3:17
Is it any wonder that virtually all of the sodomite supporters on this Site are championing Cardinal Bernadine’s positions?
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
We are not championing his position as much as telling people to stop lying about it.
I’ve seen enough. Anonymous Says is obviously just another Modernist!
Becky,
According to the “Mystical City of God of Mary of Agreda” the Blessed Mother always knelt to receive Her Son in the Blessed Sacrament, even while He was still alive at the Last Supper!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Sandra D – what you said is so true. Bishop Galantino should read the quotes of
St. Athanasius, St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine on the fate of erring Bishops and their place in hell. It is truly difficult to believe that Pope Francis would put his blessing on what Bishop Galantino said. Sad to know that Bishop Galantino is promoting this kind of evil rhetoric. This Bishop needs to have time away to reflect and pray on the wrongs that he is espousing. He needs to be instructed on what an intrinsic evil abortion is. Perhaps, Cardinal Burke could be the one to enlighten Bishop Galantino.
amy, I’d be happy if Galantino, Kasper and some of the others would read the Bible and the CCC.
They appear to have forgotten what they state – if they ever read the CCC at all.
Pope Francis has let the devil out of the box and will have a difficult time getting him back in.
If the statement as reported is true, then Pope Francis must call Bishop Galantino to account, and perhaps find something other for him to do. In fact, and again assuming the accuracy of his comment, this bishop seems very open to debating all elements of the Church’s position on sexual license and ethics, that is to becoming more liberal in practice. What has Francis done? He surrounds himself with the passed-over critics of Tradition, liberal has-beens like Cardinal Kasper, and seems poised to return the Church to the disastrous and divisive policies debates of the past. Bishop Galantino seems cut in the same mold as this: do not put your Catholic belief into practice (such as saying a Rosary outside of the killing field of an abortion horror house — it might upset the poor woman killing her pre-born child, after all), but engage in “dialogue” over everything (which by definition of a “Faith” is nutty). We have a wonderful Catholic Faith, a pathway on this Earth to salvation. We do not need, and must fight against, the constant demand that we all re-examine and debate and be open to change to everything in life. This is apostasy; this is heresy; something about the comment attributed to St. John Chrysostom that the road to Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.
With Francis, as the Bishop of Rome, Catholics throughout the world are in for a roller coaster ride.
Catholics have been on the roller coaster since Christ first set up His church.
You better know your Faith well Catholics.
Those who are uncatechised will not know what to do or whom to believe.
A guy like Galantino or Kasper can lead you away from Jesus, and directly
to _ _ _ _ .
Amen to that Shirley
Prayers for Bishop Galantino. If true, this transparent attempt to align himself with the ‘young’ smacks of an old man poured into a pair of skinny pants saying he can’t relate to those who wear relaxed fit khakis at a 20-something nightclub . Someone should tell him that intelligent and thinking young adults usually do not appreciate being patronized and can scent it from miles away.
Even so, if the Bishop really can’t ‘relate’ to those who pray the rosary with devotion and faith, then he apparently takes issue with Pope Francis himself who is a self-proclaimed rosary devotee. No?
Good cop, bad cop, maybe?
That’s the most charitable way I see it, Dana, or like the cop working ‘undercover’. So he’s really a cop who looks like a drug dealer, but yes he appears to be selling drugs to children. So just pass along and shhh.
Thing is, the Police Chief is typically not the best choice for ‘working undercover’ as they come off as nothing but completely corrupt or just confusing as ‘education and leadership’ is their main job.
Why the man couldn’t say something like, “Although many may not relate to those who pray the Rosary outside abortion clinics, we should realize that these prayer warriors are an active source of grace that works in conjunction with those who strive for for the quality of life of the people, for their right to health, to work.”
But again, coming off as an actual leader of young and old who believes in the Faith and prayer and grace, would blow the desired cover. As if young people are stupid. THAT makes me ill. Young people are anything but stupid which is why they pick up on the hypocrisy almost immediately. That breeds distrust, distaste, and utter disinterest. Even on the basis of monkey-see-monkey-do, the Bishop has set the example of marginalizing, not only abortion clinic protesters, but Our Lady’s rosary and the very real power of prayer and the reality of the supernatural.
God help Church leadership. They need handlers.
I so agree, Ann Malley! Actually, what I wrote meant that both had the same idea in mind but one was to look like he was for the right thing and one was to look like the bad guy and make the good guy, who is actually promulgating the same thing, look righteous. And when has the wonderful wisdom of ‘silence is golden’ ever going to return to the vatican? I’m so sick of all the spin going on defending yet another outrageous statement …’oh, but that’s not what he meant at all! What he really meant…” and then you hear a dozen different meanings from the same statement. I really think everyone should refer to Nicholas’s quote from Bishop Sheen! We must start paying attention. It would seem that this may be the pope of our chastisement. Every word that came from the mouth of Jesus is clear and emphatic and no one can spin anything he said. Truth is as clear as glass and as beautiful as all God’s creation. When it strikes a discordant note it is like a warning bell. Take heed.
PS Sorry, I meant the quote from Xavier ‘s post.
God is eternally faithful, Dana, and gives His people what they pray for – that is what they truly want. For such a long, long time, it hasn’t been devout priests and religious and sound doctrine which abrades human nature as it is supposed to. Just like a saddle and bit are unwelcome by a wild horse.
So now we have a ‘Church’ of wild horses. I call it manufactured invincible ignorance. No one is prepared for the yoke of Christ and so they balk at the burden.
But God is still God and does not change. He will reward faithfulness and not just with the salvation of the one remaining faithful, but for those for whom the faithful prays and sacrifices. Translation: Plenty of work to be done!
Amen ann. Very good post! Thank you .
If the good bishop needs to explain anything it should be to Our Blessed Mother who has be promulgating the Rosary for centuries. Over and over again she has been telling Catholics to pray for sinners and her choice of prayer is the Rosary. Where better to pray for sinners, but outside an abortion clinic where unborn babies and the souls of women are killed.
This “bishop” probably would have opposed St. Pope St. Pius V’s call for Rosaries to defeat the Turkish Fleet at Le Panto. He probably would have been so brazen, or shall we say it, sinful, to tell the Blessed Mother not to bother with that stupid Pope St. Pius V, and he would have gotten Her Scornful answer, as this poor excuse for a bishop will soon get.
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
WELL said Amy and SandyD!!!
Why in the world don’t our post-Vatican II Church leaders have the COURAGE to fight for the rights to life, of the poor helpless unborn child, and those in danger of euthanasia?? These poor human beings should be FIRST on the Pope’s list, of defense of the poor of the world, which he seeks to champion!! I do not think these men belong in our Church at all! Thy cruelly mock Christ and His poor little helpless unborn children, and poor helpless potential victims of euthanasia! They are a world-wide disgrace! EXCOMMUNICATE!!
Bishop Galantino refers to abortion as “interruption of pregnancy”?!! Even Planned Parenthood calls it a “termination of pregnancy”. What does he think that you can interrupt it and then restore it when and if you please? Is he really that flippant about it?
Another wolf in sheep’s clothing?
Another prelate in the Church hierarchy, who ” sails close to the wind of heresy”…how would Pope Saint Pius X have reacted if one of his consecrated Bishops professed such a demonic value system?…just what does this shameful prelate identify with?…
“When the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?” (Luke 18:8)
If this is true, it is an utter disgrace. And yet, a greater disgrace will be if Rome does nothing.
Even more shocking since this is a man chosen by the pope himself! Also , it was a book by Cd.Kasper that inspired Pope Francis on mercy. What is going on?
What I fear may be going on is that the Synod in October is being prepared politically by these declarations. Communion for divorced will just be the tip of the iceberg, followed by homosexual marriage, women priests and an end to priestly celibacy. They will do it gradually without changing any laws. The decision to allow communion will be given to the bishops that will transfer it to parish priests’ confessions and voilà, problem fixed.
After Francis’ Synod will come the Spirit of the Francis’ Synod and it will blow through our windswept house like the Spirit of Vatican II.
The antidote is the Extraordinary Latin Mass, I believe. Watch this optimistic ETWN video:
https://www.extraordinaryfaith.tv/episodes/episode-1
It looks like you’re right, Gratias. So many of the changes following Vat II were not even licit, but priests and bishops were given almost unlimited control to subvert liturgy, eliminate altar rails, Tabernacles, kneelers, and on and on. Now it will be to undermine what are considered sins…it will be left to bishops to determine if divorced couples can receive the Host, I suppose? What if they prohibit the Extraodinary Latin Mass? I suppose what has triggered my concern is this rush to make saints of the three popes so fast. What is the rush? Does anyone know of anytime in Church history that this is happened? It’s been worrying me for some time. This urgency. What’s behind it?
Dana write your concerns to our Pope and pray them to our Lord too. Our Lord will deal with His children when they fall astray or if they give out the wrong impression. We must persevere with fortitude and not give the enemy more ammunition to slander the faith but we must remember that our church is made up of people who are sinners and who are imperfect. But the Truth is perfect and in the truth we shall lean on for protection against the snares of the evil one. We must have mercy for those who are lost and pray for their return home to Christ and even for those within the faith, who are misleading others. We understand that there are real concerns here and yes rightly so to express them without dishonoring God and His call to us to be humble and meek. Our Lord is our Abba Father, He will disciple His children in high places who fall astray willingly.
We correct deception with the truth, with prayer.
Interesting…more prayer, Abeca. This video is not very old.
Thank you Dana. I will make sure to take action on this one too. Its disturbing to say the least. It breaks my heart but I can only trust that God will correct His children. Like a loving Father does.
Thank you, Abeca. Loving and good advice. True love of God means placing all our trust in Him and through prayer, doesn’t it? The Church marches on despite centuries of endless attacks and subversion.
Yes Dana. As long as you have humans here on earth, there will be imperfections and bad will. The good news is that Jesus wins. As long as we are able, we must face injustices and speak up against them when we are prompted by the Holy Ghost.
The truth does not change. As you can see dissenters, heretics etc want to change it or make it seem like its changing but its not. What we have here are different modern times but still the same kind of sins. It might be more dangerous due to the modern day technology that we have, heresy spreads faster now.
God gave us the natural law, He gave us His church, He gave us His son, He gives us His love, He gives us His mercy etc….so what is the honorable thing to do? Is to be faithful to His ways and truths. Of course there are many things that we do not understand but we can approach our Lord with humility and ask Him to give us a meek heart, a heart like His own. Fear the Lord. For His love is unending. He does not change, He is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow!
Thank you Dana. God bless you.
My thought as one of those people who pray the rosary at abortion clinics is that Bishop Galantino might have a similar difficulty understanding how and why St. John and the Blessed Mother stood at the foot of Christ’s cross.
I find it hard to comprehend the Bishop’s statements, even if I am not one to pray the rosary outside a clinic. It seems so out of step with Catholic belief and practice that I wonder if it is somehow taken out of context. Nonetheless, it is clearly not something to “report to rome” as some would suggest. A slight disagreement about piety is hardly a matter for the universal pontiff.
This was all for told when Bergoglio stepped out on the balcony of St. Peters, we the Traditionalists knew what was in store for the Church.
Janek, in my house he is called Pope Francis, not Bergoglio! Let us show some respect!
Bob One–The Papacy is the highest human office in the world. The occupant of that office is the Pope, and the job description of that Office is simple: receive, teach ,defend and transmit the Apostolic Faith as given by Our Lord to the Apostles. Because of my highest esteem for that Office ,in my house the present occupant of that Office is called Bergoglio, the through and through modernist who fails to meet the obligations of that Office.
I agree with Bob one! It was noble and humbling of you to defend our Pope. If Janek is upset, she needs to not cause scandal by her comments but she needs to write directly to our Pope with her concerns. Also she needs to pray to our Lord for those concerns (because our Lord loves our Pope and will correct His children, (especially if the faithful have legitimate concerns) but not cause more scandal. We can not go against the will of our Lord, but we can pray and express our concerns without offending what our Lord has willed.
Abeca,
Do you think that Our Lord approved of Pope Liberius’s Arianism? Do you think that Our Lord approved of Pope Honorious’s heresy? Do you think that Our Lord approves of rampant modernism?
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Kenneth watch who you are talking to. You seem to have a complicated mind set, too big for me. With all due respect and without undermining your pro-life efforts and worthy causes, I don’t want to get into it with you. Not productive I might add.
Keep your eye’s fixed on Jesus. Not on Judas. God bless you.
“I do not identify with the expressionless faces of those who recite the Rosary outside the clinics who practice interruption of pregnancy, [‘l’interruzione della gravidanza’] but with those young people who are opposed to this practice and strive for the quality of life of the people, for their right to health, to work”
“For the sake of His sorrowful Passion have mercy on us and on the whole world. ”
Faithful Catholics do not recognize or identify with Bishop Galantino’s words. They do however recognize the warning signs and they will identify with Jesus’s words in Sacred Scripture. Upon hearing the rosary being recited at an abortion mill one young mother immediately left the waiting room and came outside and she saw many Catholics and a statue of Our Lady of Fatima. This mother said that seeing the statue of Our Lady and hearing the rosary completely softened her heart and she was given the grace to leave the killing center. Father Al Baca led the rosary that day and he let everyone know that it was the feast day of Our Lady of Fatima. The rosary is a powerful gift that brings the conversion of many hearts.
John 10:11] I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd giveth his life for his sheep. [12] But the hireling, and he that is not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and flieth: and the wolf catcheth, and scattereth the sheep: [13] And the hireling flieth, because he is a hireling: and he hath no care for the sheep. [14] I am the good shepherd; and I know mine, and mine know me. [15] As the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father: and I lay down my life for my sheep. Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
We all need to reflect upon the words of the late great Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen who said:
“WHO IS GOING TO SAVE OUR CHURCH? NOT OUR BISHOPS, NOT OUR PRIESTS AND RELIGIOUS. IT IS UP TO THE PEOPLE. YOU HAVE THE MINDS, THE EYES, THE EARS TO SAVE THE CHURCH. YOUR MISSION IS TO SEE THAT YOUR PRIESTS ACT LIKE PRIESTS, YOUR BISHOPS, LIKE BISHOPS, AND YOUR RELIGIOUS ACT LIKE RELIGIOUS.”
Thanks, Xavier. What a great quote! Thank you!
Dana I agree, excellent quote. It takes a great deal of humility and a meek heart to follow through with that one but we can and still remain faithful to the true faith. This whole life is complicated enough, I often think, what can a small lady person like myself do? Its not like I have power over those in charge, I think to myself, Jesus will deal with those who dissent, I just have to do my part, as small as it may be considered to others, but still doing it with an honest genuine love of faith and Christ. Remaining loyal and fix my eye’s on Jesus. Its so easy to get distracted through. Since everyone seems to have an opinion about everything, there is so much information out there too.
The nuns who are cloistered have it right, they pray but do not get caught up with all those extra distractions, they fix their eye’s, minds etc on Jesus.
You, others and I just have to persevere with fortitude. I do gotta admit though, that these issues we face before us, surely are humbling, they do tend to expose any prideful bad will we may have. Its like yea, lets be done with this ugly pride and move forward. Talk about excelling in a more virtuous life, take the opportunity to practice and apply. But if one reasons well, being meek is also understanding there will be reactions, consequences etc.
I had to realize that part of being humble is accepting that not everyone is gifted to defend or speak up on such things in public places, some do better just by praying and fasting. A while back I was trying to talk into a friend to go with me to an abortion clinic and pray. She just didn’t feel comfortable doing it. But one day as I went to adoration at a local parish, she was there, it turned out that she had volunteered several hours there praying for those who were at abortion clinics trying to help woman choose life. She had her bible, her rosary and she knelt the whole time there.
That is so true, Abeca…in whatever way we are called we should serve…like St.Therese’s ‘little way’. Most of us are just little and weak, but just remaining faithful in our daily lives is a big challenge.
But, I still think we are called to speak out about abuses in the Church if we’re in a position to do so. If Jesus had just gone about the countryside ‘being a good person’ no one would have remembered Him at all…it is through His teaching that we learn how to follow Him. Words have power. If no one confronts this errant bishop he’ll be able to carry out his anti-Christ agenda. He’s one of many deluded men who seek their will, not God’s. It’s our watch…who’s manning the walls?
PS Michael Voris spoke on this yesterday and he said to ‘make a mess’ as Pope Francis told us to do. He said that everyone must pray for the Church and to speak out to our priests, bishops and begin to be really annoying so they can’t ignore us. That’s easier for some of us. haha
Xavier–great quote. But do we not need to be sure that those we call priests, and bishops have been validly ordained ? Without valid ordinations acting like priests or bishops would be just that—ACTING !
Yep,
It is up to us.
Contact the Pope, Papal Nuncio, Diocese Bishop, or Parish Priest as appropriate.
Don’t be slothful.
Canon 212 ” §3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church
and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful,
without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons. “
DR. EDWARDS,
Thanks for your excellent clarification (with quotations) of the infamous “seamless garment” theory of Cardinal Bernardin, which would have weakened the pro-life movement if pro-lifers had been stupid enough to accept its specious reasoning. (I became active in the pro-life movement in 1970 and witnessed pro-lifers’ wise rejection of Bernardin’s ploy.) Unfortunately, many prelates today wear the worn-out, shabby “seamless garment, ” so that Bishop Galantino has lots of bad company.
It is unbelievable to me that the seamless argument is seen as a “ploy” to lessen the church’s stance against abortion. The seamless argument makes the stance more understandable within a broader context of justice for the living. Where do you get such nonsense?
YFC do you understand that RIGHT to LIFE issues are NOT the SAME as SOCIAL ISSUES ?
“THOU SHALL NOT KILL” – God.
No human being in their right mind would ask all Catholics to run around supporting every issue EQUALLY.
There would be no time for prayer, for family, or for work. “EQUALLY VISABLE” – pure stupidity.
This was merely a Bernardin ploy for his Democrats who supported abortion – thus his “seamless garment”.
Oh by the way, Bernardin was just as guilty in aiding and abetting in child abuse as Mahony.
Would you like me to provide a link regarding your hero, Bernardin’s participation ?
It all came out in Court documents, which are pretty nasty.
Here is just a little local news – regarding the documentation.
https://www.wcpo.com/news/national/chicago-archdioces-his-decades-of-child-abuse
TED any man that defies the natural law may not have the graces enough to understand what you are trying to convey. Not all sinners choose the truth.
Thank you for your post TED B.
Not only was BERNARDIN trying to infuse his own political beliefs into Church teaching via his “Seamless Garment theory”
but at the same time also aiding and abetting in sexual child abuse.
Since when did making vicious and unjustified accusations against our Bishops and fellow lay people pass for Christian?
YFC, take your Saul Alinsky strategies “Rules for Radicals” and peddle them elsewhere. You sound like a pit bull calling the kettle black. :)
I never said that, and Bernadin never said that. Please try to comprehend what this Bishop, who lived and died in full communion with the Pope of Rome, taught.
The late Fr. Charles Fiore told me plenty about Cdl. Bernadine, and he was told plenty by the Chicago Police Department, enough said!
Bernadine and Mahony were like two peas in a pod, and Mahony picked up where Bernadine left off!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
When we recite the rosary, with each Hail Mary is like giving our Lady a rose and after saying the whole rosary is like giving her a crown of roses. We do this for our love to our Lady and for Jesus. We do this for the innocent children too, especially the unborn. We combat the great evil of abortion with our prayers. For God will not let our prayers go in vein, His mercy is unending.
Today the 18th of May is the birthday of Saint John Paul. We need to ask John Paul to pray for Bishop Galantino, whom he knew when He was our Holy Father.
Today I share the birth date with The Great Saint John Paul.
We must never put humans before God which is a form of idolatry.
The 10 COMMANDMENTS (not suggestions) stand. Ex 20
JESUS said: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment.”
Mt 22:37-38
The RIGHT to LIFE – – – – – – takes PRIORITY over Social Issues, no matter what Bernardin or any other human says.
This sums up the problems with the Church in a nutshell. It is save the whales, and be nice to the illegal law breaking aliens, but kill the unborn babies. This concept is not only in a few dioceses; it is widespread. The Catholic Church could have stopped abortions, homosexual unions, etc, but it did nothing, fiddling around like Nero did when Rome was burning. Our Lady at LaSalette predicted this, as well as when she appeared in Akita. Sister Lucia of Fatima also mentioned the diabolical disorientation which would infect the Church. Well, it is happening, and I believe it will only get much worse until it gets better.
Good Bishop, Bad Bishop –
https://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2014-05-19
Does your Bishop actively promote reading the Bible and the CCC ?
Does your Parish Priest?
His FIRST TASK is: – – CCC ” 888 Bishops, with priests as co-workers, have as their first task “to preach the Gospel of God to all men,” in keeping with the Lord’s command. They are “heralds of faith, who draw new disciples to Christ; they are authentic teachers” of the apostolic faith “endowed with the authority of Christ.”
We have seen what heretical Cardinal Joseph BERNARDIN tried to impose on the USA –
” Those who defend the right to life of the weakest among us MUST be EQUALLY VISABLE in support of the quality of life …… specific political and economic positions on TAX POLICY, EMPLOYMENT GENERATION, WELFARE POLICY,…”
This is what POPE BENEDICT said:
“The fundamental human right, the presupposition of every other right, is the right to life itself. This is true of life from the moment of conception until its natural end.
Abortion, consequently, cannot be a human right — it is the very opposite. It is a deep wound in society.” ― Pope Benedict XVI
Who you do believe ?
___________________
Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) said that those who support pro-abortion politicians should not present themselves for Holy Communion.
https://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm
While BERNARDIN tells us we – MUST – be EQUALLY VISABLE on specific political and economic positions on TAX POLICY, EMPLOYMENT GENERATION, WELFARE POLICY “.
(And I don’t need to bring up Bernardin’s aiding and abetting of sexual child abuse which is included in public Court documents.)
Fortunately, Samuel, you are not the arbiter of what is heretical.
Actually, God, in the bible, tells us to judge sin and wrongdoing and point it out to our fellow man. Samuel is right and YFC, once again, is wrong.
“Take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye” (Matt. 7:5).
“Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment” (John 7:24).
“My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins” (James 5:19-20)
“But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality [e.g., sodomites] or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. Purge the evil person from among you” (1 Corinthians 5:11–13)
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector” (Matt. 15-17).
juergensen, the only way you get to say that Bernadin’s Seemless Garment idea is heretical is to MISREAD what he said and wrote. And intentionally so. You all hate that Bernadin was a liberal, and Seemless Garment points us to the evils in other social policy matters that conservatives happen to support. So rather than discuss whether those social policies are matters of morals, you all go after Bernadin himself, ad hominem, calling him heretical — and in order to do that you have to twist what he taught.
Fr. Fiore attended to that poor soul who was paid off by Bernadine to change his story of sexual molestation by Bernadine, he told me that the man died in his arms crying that he should not have let Bernadine buy him off.
Do I enjoy publicly stating these things, absolutely not, but “the truth shall set you free!”
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
According to this, Father Fiore never met the man and only spoke to him on the phone once.
https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/01/us/bernardin-memoir-suggests-priest-urged-accuser.html
juergensen thank you for your loving correction towards those who say they are fellow Catholic. You are a good soul.
Thank you for calling out heresy, Samuel. For while you are surely not the arbiter of what constitutes heresy, you are a messenger of what is an otherwise observable, objective reality to those who allow their senses to function in their proper capacity. Those, who by their own inexperience or lack of exposure, have not happened upon the information you provide are duly informed and thank goodness!
God bless.
Good comments Samuel. I agree
YFC you are correct. I do not define, the Church does. Please pay attention to it the next time you post in support of gay marriage.
CCC: ” 2089 INCREDULITY is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. ”
HERESY is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;
APOSTACY is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;
SCHISM is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”
The Church does not and never taught that the RIGHT to LIFE should be given the same status as Social issues.
The Church does not and never taught that aiding and abetting in the sexual abuse of children is permitted.
Samuel, please don’t say untrue things about what the Church has said is heretical. It has never EVER said that Seamless Garment is heretical. You mislead others, presumably because you find the doctrine hard to swallow.
YFC – The Seamless Garment was never adopted by the Church.
It is not Church teaching, only Bernardin teaching – making up his own.
As others have stated – Right to life issues are not negotiable, and take precedence over social issues. And certainly do not fall into the lessor social categories.
Therefore it is heretical – Bernardin teaching.
(Are you going to support Bernardin’s aiding and abetting in sexual child abuse as well?)
WRONG on so many counts.
What, because YOU say so? What YOU think doesn’t matter. What I think doesn’t matter. What “IS” does matter. All of Bernardin’s exploits are well documented.
YFC –
“HERESY is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith”
When Bernardin taught that Social Issues were to be EQUALLY supported with Right to Life issues he taught heresy.
He was not honest.
However even with his heresy and the resulting loss of Souls,
if he repented before death, He could still get to Heaven. That is between Jesus and Bernardin.
The innocent babies that were killed by those supporting his Democratic abortion politicians will be addressed at his judgment also.
And of course his aiding and abetting sexual child abusers.
Quite a public record for a “man of the cloth”.
JAY yes its true what you just said but also people do go to hell too.
True.
Jesus talked about Hell often.
And the Narrow Door – Lk 13:24-28; and Mt 7:13-14.
Jay you completely misstate what Bernadin taught and what the Church teaches to suit your own ends. You have no idea what words like “obstinate denial of some truth which must be believed” even means, give the context in which you quote them. The simple fact is you don’t like what Bernadin was teaching, so you whack him at the knees with charges of heresy. Surely, Catholic faith requires a more charitable treatment of this (and all) bishops.
YFC, there is nothing in Church teaching that all Bishops will go to Heaven.
All Bishops are not holy.
Any Cardinal or Bishop who aided and abetting in sexual child abuse – proves his Soul was not right with God.
Pray that Cdl. Bernadine can benefit from prayers and then pray for his soul. No prayers are wasted!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Kenneth, – Only if he is in Purgatory.
If someone is already in Hell or Heaven, prayers are not needed.
The Devil is like a mad dog tied by a chain. Beyond the length of the chain he cannot catch hold of anyone. And you, therefore, keep your distance. If you get too close you will be caught. Remember, the Devil has only one door with which to enter into our soul: our will. There are no secret or hidden doors. No sin is a true sin if we have not willfully consented.
Saint Padre Pio
If you have the courage to imitate Mary Magdalene in her sins, have the courage to imitate her penance!
Saint Padre Pio
Well said.
Beautifully stated and quoted Abecca…quoting St. Pio…a great source of spiritual reflection…and without equivocation, something to be grasped at…
Thank you to you both. I pray that we can have more good priests like Saint Padre Pio. For I fear that we are near the ending times, and we have so few good priests whom will have the courage to do God’s holy will, which is to save souls.
“It has never EVER [been] said that Seamless Garment is heretical. ”
This is the concept that contradictory propositions — such as, that all sins against life are relatively co-equal, be they abortion, assisted suicide, or government death panels—are equivalent to social ills, such as issues involving “the hungry and the homeless, the undocumented immigrant and the unemployed worker” and “modern warfare” (Bernardin’s 1983 Fordham U. lecture, where he clearly demarcated all these as relatively equal “sins against life”), or add in capital punishment (which is not per se a sin at all and is coherent with longstanding Catholic tradition articulated by Aquinas, Suarez, more recently Austin Fagothey and many others). Bernardin’s thinking is clear: abortion, which is ipso facto matter of canonical excommunication, is only part and parcel of other modern “sins”, all of which we should focus on instead. It is a sophistry worthy of Arius.
The Arian Heresy is an excellent reminder that many heresies and schisms were lead or supported by many (but not all) Bishops.
And your statement below also needs repeating:
” Classic heretical teaching re-directs our focus from established Catholic teaching to some twisted new interpretation, leveling distinctions and relativizing moral truths.”
Bernardin was not out to teach the Faith accurately, or to save Souls.
He had his own motives.
We have already established that the consistent ethic of life does not put issues of human life ahead of social issues. The idea that all sins against life and against a person’s quality of life are equal is not correct. Bernardin said it was wrong to those who tried to push that idea. So stop because someone might believe you and then you will be guilty of spreading a false idea.
As so ably quoted by Dr. Edwards above, Bernardin’s position in the notorious “Seamless Garment” ethic is worth noting again (slightly adapted):
Joseph Card. Bernanrdin, “Seamless Garment” document:
I, Part II. Paragraph 15 : ” If one contends, as we do, that the right of every fetus to be born should be protected by civil law and supported by civil consensus, then our moral, political and economic responsibilities do not stop at the moment of birth.
Those who defend the right to life of the weakest among us must be EQUALLY visible in support of the quality of life of the powerless among us: the old and the young, the hungry and the homeless, the undocumented immigrant and the unemployed worker.
Such a quality of life posture translates into specific political and economic positions on TAX POLICY, EMPLOYMENT GENERATION, WELFARE POLICY, nutrition and feeding programs, and health care. Consistency means we cannot have it both ways.”
Classic heretical teaching re-directs our focus from established Catholic teaching to some twisted new interpretation, leveling distinctions and relativizing moral truths.
EQUALL VISIBLE. Calling for equal visibility does not make seamless garment heretical. Sorry, it just does not.
Could those of you who defend the modern day seamless garment argument explain to me why Jesus did not condemn the death penalty when the repentant thief on the cross next to Jesus, as recorded in Luke 23:41, said; “We have been condemned JUSTLY, because we are getting what we deserve for what we have done, but this man has done nothing wrong.”?
Oh-it’s a capital punishment thing. Again.
Yes, if you do not have a consistent ethic of life, you are going to disagree with what you call the seamless garment argument.
He spared the woman caught in adultery who was also justly condemned.
Human life is sacred.
God is merciful.
Anonymous I don’t know why but you just don’t make sense. Tracy is correct and you could get rid of some of that pride and understand that she is trying to make a good point.
Abeca Christian, you know this website does not like long discussions about capital punishment. If it does not make sense to you, you should read Saint John Paul II”s The Gospel of Life. This is the teaching of the Church.
People try to distort the Consistent Ethic of Life. It is not about politics. It does not negate any church teaching. It is not heresy. Some people don’t understand it. Some people do not understand the Church’s teaching on the human person. It is based on Scripture which is infallible. Human beings are created in the image of God. Human life is sacred. Human life is to be respected and protected from conception to natural death.
The official teaching of the Church as approved by Saint JP II, and promulgated by Apostolic Constitution is contained in the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”
“ The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved … and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. “ – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg 5)
DEATH PENALTY –
CCC: ” 2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm – without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself – the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically non-existent. “
Phil thanks for the quote. Few if any of the CCD defenders of the faith have ever read or obey the paragraphs you have so brilliantly quoted.
YFC you are lying to us all or at lead misleading others with your comments against many here. We know the faith and live the faith. You do not your actions here on this website have exposed you and even your bullying with other websites that you use to hate on those of faith! Remember my name, the one you used on another website! How can anyone trust a person who supports sodomy! No one in their right mind would take Catechism lessons from a gay activist such as yourself! YFC is the one, the one who would tell God how it is suppose to be. YFC is the one who would correct God or at least think he is representing God by his man made lessons, his/hers church of YFC!
I find it interesting, YFC, that you consider Phil’s quoting the CCC brilliant in this instance and worthy of praise, yet when the same CCC is used to outline the definitive disordered nature of other acts you choose to dismiss it out of hand.
Same goes for flattering one for quoting the CCC (brilliantly? Come on.) on one hand and then either ignoring and or undermining other CCC quoters when you disagree with the teaching.
Such ‘faithfulness’ rings quite hollow. Much like those who would detract from the crime of killing unborn innocents by comparing the epidemic holocaust to the exercise of the death penalty.
Anonymous, my question was quite simple; “Could those of you who defend the modern day seamless garment argument explain to me why Jesus did not condemn the death penalty when the repentant thief on the cross next to Jesus, as recorded in Luke 23:41, said; ‘We have been condemned JUSTLY, because we are getting what we deserve for what we have done, but this man has done nothing wrong.’?”
I have yet to have anyone who opposes the death penalty explain Jesus’ lack of action in the above situation.
Tracy, the Catholic Church does not “condemn” (was that a pun?) the death penalty. Do you not know the Church’s teaching? Oscar was gracious enough to post the CCC paragraphs on it below.
I think no one answered your question because no one is in the demographic that you are addressing. We are Catholic.
Where as you might be speaking for yourself, Anonymous #?, there are others on this thread who are purporting that the death penalty is somehow un-Catholic. That is if one is to have a consistent life ethic, one must oppose the death penalty.
So the ‘we are Catholic’ statement is rather naive in answer to Tracy’s question.
Ann Malley, all Catholics are supposed to defend human life. That does not mean that one denies the right of the state to impose the death penalty in cases where the public safety is concerned. And faithful Catholics can have opposing views on the appropriateness of the death penalty in each case or even in general. I think you are relying on your own opinion of what the implications of the consistent life ethic would mean in this case. Phil has posted the Church’s teaching.
Ann Malley, good point. Not everybody who is Catholic is faithful to the Church.
Tracy, it’s sort of hard to imagine that a person can pull a quote from scripture and then devise a doctrine based on what the next line in the scripture was not. It’s hard enough to discern the meaning of most passages of scripture. Discerning the meaning of what is NOT in the scripture is a task for a foolish mind. So if you want to encourage such foolishness, go right ahead, but you won’t find any serious scriptural scholars or followers of Christ taking your bait.
So then you concur, YFC, that the Church is not opposed to the death penalty? Great. You may have supported her position in a round-about way, but you did get her point and prove it quite nicely despite your attempt to paint it as foolish.
THAT was very kind of you.
YFC, you know well enough that I did NOT “devise a doctrine” based on ANY scripture passage! I simply have asked a reasonable question! (or in your viewpoint: a foolish question ;) ) (see my May 25, 2014 at 10:57 am post)
My next question is why are YOU and ‘ANONYMOUS’ trying so hard to SQUASH this debate?
Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals: :(
1. “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.”
5. “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”
8. “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.”
No no, Tracy, please do not distract. You insistently asked a question about what was NOT in scripture. No one can answer a question about what is NOT in scripture. So don’t go bullying me with Alynsky quotes yet again. What is not in scripture is NOT in scripture, for a reason, and we cannot derive doctrine from its absence. Period. What the +++ does Alynsky even have to do with Scriptural interpretation????
YFC, that is funny! You of all people accusing me of “distraction” and being a bully! :)
My question remains;
“Could those of you who defend the modern day seamless garment argument explain to me why Jesus did not condemn the death penalty when the repentant thief on the cross next to Jesus, as recorded in Luke 23:41, said; ‘We have been condemned JUSTLY, because we are getting what we deserve for what we have done, but this man has done nothing wrong.’?”
YFC, that is funny! YOU of all people accusing ME of “distraction” and being a bully! You must really be afraid of my simple question as you sure are putting a lot of effort in repudiating it.
My question remains;
“Could those of you who defend the modern day seamless garment argument explain to me why Jesus did not condemn the death penalty when the repentant thief on the cross next to Jesus, as recorded in Luke 23:41, said; ‘We have been condemned JUSTLY, because we are getting what we deserve for what we have done, but this man has done nothing wrong.’?”
Bullying goes both ways, YFC. You are no innocent unlike the poor pre-born babies that are being butchered in abortion clinics every moment of the day across this country. Those souls are the truly ‘bullied’ innocents for whom those with Faith pray for outside of ‘clinics’ every day. The very same that a Prince of the Church has publicly proclaimed ‘he doesn’t relate to’.
THAT IS DISGUSTING!
I would think, since you ascribe to be a member of a so-called persecuted minority, that you would be a chief advocate for the rights of unborn children. Truly innocent victims who didn’t ask to be born one way or another. And yet it seems you are joining the ranks of those who would treat these poor little ones as if they were rank, unrepentant criminals. Doesn’t quite fit the ‘born that way’ rhetoric of those who advocate for the homosexual agenda.
Seamless garment ‘theology’ aside, I cannot see that as Christlike or even humane in the slightest.
Dear Ann Malley, I don’t think I said what you imagine you think I said.
My position on the death penalty is completely congruent with the Church’s position, which is that we should defend life from birth to natural death. Hastening death, especially if there is any doubt whasoever about the guilt of the person, is utterly immoral and sinful. Given the fact that so many death sentences have been overturned due to DNA evidence ought to give everyone a moment to pause about the certainty of guilt with which we execute prisoners.
And Dear Tracy, I continue to ask you how it is that any person can derive a doctrine from what is NOT in scripture. You keep asking about what is not in scripture, as though your own interpretation of what is not in scripture is somehow authoritative and binding on the Christian faithful. Please get with the program. What is not in scripture is not subject matter for you to imagine some implied doctrine that we all must adhere to.
Apologies everyone, my last comment was intended for Tracy, not AM. It’s a little hard to keep these conversations going given the blog structure.
Now responding to AM: What the bleep does my position on abortion, which I in fact oppose, have anything to do with homosexuality? Please try to disambiguate your thoughts, Ann, it might do you good.
And, by the way, I don’t think I ever “ascribe[d] to be a member of a so-called persecuted minority.” Can you please provide a quote before you accuse me?
YFC, I’ll say it again, I asked a question. I did not deride a doctrine. That being said, YOUR question, “how it is that any person can derive a doctrine from what is NOT in scripture”, and your vitriol which follows, is further proof that you are a Protestant and not a “fellow Catholic”.
Show me were in the Bible you will find the doctrine for the Assumption of Mary, or the Immaculate Conception?
Oh, YFC, of the “I have had eggs thrown at me! How dare you!” persecuted minority of homosexuals, you have a short memory. At least for when it comes to recalling the positions you have taken. So as I said before, I am glad you do not support abortion.
As to the rest, you may want to clarify your own position with regard to the CCC in its fullness. Your over-the-top saccharine flattery of one who quotes the CCC on this thread when compared to your dismissal of others who quote the CCC on other threads comes off as even more disingenuous. Especially if you are wanting to put forward the ideal that you are a ‘fellow Catholic’ just trying your best to be faithful.
You may prefer Bernadine’s ‘seamless malarky’ that aids and abets the voting in of wholesale abortion and twisted sexual ethics, Anonymous. I’ll take St. Augustine as quoted from The City of God, Book 1, chapter 21:
The same divine authority that forbids the killing of a human being establishes certain exceptions, as when God authorizes killing by a general law or when He gives an explicit commission to an individual for a limited time.
The agent who executes the killing does not commit homicide; he is an instrument as is the sword with which he cuts. Therefore, it is in no way contrary to the commandment, ‘Thou shalt not kill’ to wage war at God’s bidding, or for the representatives of public authority to put criminals to death, according to the law, that is, the will of the most just reason.
If St. Augustine isn’t enough for you, then perhaps St. Thomas Aquinas will do:
It is written: “Wizards thou shalt not suffer to live” (Ex. 22:18); and: “In the morning I put to death all the wicked of the land” (Ps. 100:8). …
Every part is directed to the whole, as imperfect to perfect, wherefore every part exists naturally for the sake of the whole. For this reason we see that if the health of the whole human body demands the excision of a member, because it became putrid or infectious to the other members, it would be both praiseworthy and healthful to have it cut away. Now every individual person is related to the entire society as a part to the whole. Therefore if a man be dangerous and infectious to the community, on account of some sin, it is praiseworthy and healthful that he be killed in order to safeguard the common good, since “a little leaven corrupteth the whole lump” (1 Cor. 5:6).
(Summa Theologiae, II, II, q. 64, art. 2)
The fact that the evil ones, as long as they live, can be corrected from their errors does not prohibit that they may be justly executed, for the danger which threatens from their way of life is greater and more certain than the good which may be expected from their improvement.
(Summa contra gentiles, Book III, chapter 14)
It looks like you copied this from traditioninaction website.
You have not been very accurate or thorough in presenting St. Augustine’s writings on the death penalty.
You do not seem to have made a thorough study of Cardinal Bernardin’s works either.
Your first sentence indicates that you are very much distracted by the world and it’s vanities.
So expound on St. Augustine’s writings with regard to the death penalty, Anonymous. Illuminate. Discuss Aquinas. Whatever you bring to the conversation, you will not be able to go to ‘the’ source, Anonymous, that is the men themselves. That same can be said about Cardinal Bernadin and his ‘work’. You will have to rely on sources, Anonymous, and the visible connections of the here and now.
Methinks you are just distracted by whatever spin you read with regard to Bernadin instead of the actual ‘fruits’ of his ministry. But, I’m sorry, my friend, the fruits are rotten if not grotesquely malformed. If, however, you have something productive to add that can somehow connect Bernadin’s novel proposals with Sts. Augustine and Aquinas, please, speak.
There are primary sources available.
And do your own homework.
Well, Anonymous, then go straight to the Summa and City of God, for that is where the quotes originated for Aquinas and Augustine. If you don’t ‘like’ what they have to say, that’s your problem. Much like it is your problem that others have looked to Bernadin and found the ‘source’ wanting.
And yes, we all should do our own homework. But it would appear your work isn’t sourcing for truth, but rather undermining any and all who do not ascribe to your spin.
Ann Malley, you are silly.
Trying to make it look like I am unfaithful, insinuating that I do not like the Summa or the City of God. There is nothing wrong with the quotes; it is just that your post indicated that your knowledge and understanding was lacking.
I called you out on Bernardin and Augustine, not Aquinas.
You show no evidence that you made any attempt to study it or if you did, you discovered your errors and now are blustering to save face.
I have no spin. I have not argued for or against anything.
Anonymous, the only silliness is the manifestation of ‘so-called’ inadequacy on your part that you attempt to ascribe to me.
I ask you to express your thoughts regarding the issue at hand. There is a distinct disconnect between the teachings of Aquinas and Augustine on capital punishment as compared to Bernadin. If you are faithful and well read, educate instead of playing devil’s advocate for no reason when confronted with someone you assume is less educated and less faithful than you.
That would demonstrate charity and maturity, Anonymous, not the pettiness of your ongoing attempt to discredit someone due to your own personal issues with that individual. The same could be said for dispelling error.
Whatever truth you have discovered, Anonymous, isn’t yours. It is not to ‘your’ credit either, but is rather a gift from the Father. So be kind and do not brag on the notion of superior intellect or a more faithful faithfulness, but rather pass it on instead of sniping and blustering.
I was trying not to embarrass you.
I want you to do the work yourself. It will mean more to you if you discover it for yourself.
“So do not condemn people to death, or while you are attacking the sin you will destroy the man. Do not condemn to death, and there will be someone there who can repent. Do not have a person put to death and you will have someone who can be reformed.” St. Augustine in what is referred to as Sermon 13.8
There is more. Study it so that you can be learned.
Anonymous, are you trying to detract from what Ann posted on May 23, 2014 at 8:01 am? If St. Thomas indeed said those things, then that is what he said, no matter whose website they are printed on!
Anonymous so you are a spoke person for this website? Really? Is that all you can come up with? I am not living in deception Anonymous. You are incorrect in your assessment here. God have mercy on you. Ann posted exactly what our church doctors have taught!
It is the truth no matter where it’s coming from even if a protestant decided to post their writings, its still the truth! I am sick and tired of lies and lies. There are many dishonest people, its hard for even the faithful to not feel intimidated! Even the wicked of heart, use priests for their dirty deeds, I have just seen it happening even in at a parish we attend. Its too disturbing. Its true what they say! Always test the spirit, just because someone says they are Catholic or Christian, we need to test their sincerity in that and we must discern through prayer!
For the record Anonymous, I may not have memorized the writings of St, Augustine’s and St. Thomas Summa but I have read them in their entirety! You have no argument at all, you are just throwing dust! Making up things as you go. God have mercy on you and forgive you for being misleading!
Tracy, I said nothing about St Thomas. I am not trying to distract. I would like that poster to do a little more study on what she posted. Learning the faith never hurts anyone.
Abeca Christian, I am not arguing at all. I am simple asking people to educate themselves. Ann posted two quotes from two Doctors of the Church. That is not all there is. I am not misleading anyone, nor am I trying to.
If your purpose is not to distract, Anonymous, then you should stay on point and stick to the subject at hand. The disconnect between the teachings of Church Fathers and Bernadin and many Church ‘leaders’ of today. As for learning the Faith, it is true that study is important. So saying, I had 12 years of Catholic school training and an additional 10+ years of self study of the Church fathers. (City of God and the Summa can be listened to on Libravox.)
For whatever reason, you resist this reality, Anonymous. That I do know the Faith. But this persistent pursuit of yours, that is undermining Catholic truths just because I might state them, is precisely the disconnect between Catholic tradition and what passes for present day Catholic practice – that is throwing Catholic truth under the bus in an attempt to prove a superior or enlightened faithfulness by accepting modernist nonsense that is being passed off as Catholic theology.
That is why we have folks like Bishop Galantino saying the absurd and divisive things he is purported to have said in this article.
God bless and thanks gals for defending Catholic truth.
Ann Malley, honestly, if you don’t want to study it, just say so. You don’t have to make up paranoid theories to get out of it.
Anonymous I asked you why are you trying to DETRACT nor distract. (see my comments on May 25, 2014 at 11:13 am)
Nice try! :(
Tracy, sorry I misread it. No, not to detract from it. But there is more to it. Nice try???? to do what???????????
You ladies come off as somewhat quarrelsome. If no one argues with you, you pretend they do.
You have apparently studied up on paranoia, Anonymous. You may want to redirect your studies to the Faith, however, if you desire to come off as credible on a Catholic website.
That said, I’m not sure what you constitute studying and/or learning as parroting and backpedaling is all you have done thus far. Pray for Faith, Anonymous, and perhaps you will begin to understand what you pretend to have read.
Thank you for your quote of Augustine, Anonymous. That was helpful and, truly, makes me see you in a better light than merely that of agitator. The idea of baiting – and that is what you have been doing – and then backtracking with a ‘do your own homework’ is not helpful. At least not if you’re attempting to enlighten my mind.
That said, nobody is advocating that an all-out death penalty should be enacted in every instance. But neither should there be the absolute negation of the death penalty when it is called for. And at times, it can be, Anonymous.
So saying, I cannot equate the crime against God in killing innocent unborn children to the just punishment of criminals. You may consider that unlearned, but even Augustine who wrote what you quoted, advocated for the death penalty when need be. There is absolutely no correlation between that and killing unborn children who have no hope for baptism.
Anonymous, STOP being mean toward Ann! She is a child of God!
Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals are used to destroy good people and are evil.
10. “The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.”
13. “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”
Ann Malley, step one. Verify the quote. Does it even exist? Is it legitimate? Is it taken out of context?
Read more of Augustine’s letters and sermons to see if there is more.
(And don’t imply that abortion and capital punishment are equated by anyone to try to save your pride.)
And learn what the word correlation means.
Sorry if that was mean. I know you are a child of God. Hey, even Saul Alinsky is.
Now, I promise I will not comment on your next post so you can let me have it. Because you were rude to me and I was rude to you but I will give you the last word.
If I was rude to you, Anonymous, perhaps you should ask yourself why. Perhaps there is something to be learned by you in your delivery. Many people can know things, but fail miserably as a teacher even if their intention is to encourage others to learn the hard way or do their own homework. One must approach the student in the manner that will aid them in learning. (Otherwise, why have teachers at all?)
So step one to you for actually providing some context, that is a quote from Augustine, instead of just a barb. You also may want to switch to a Douay–Rheims Bible and opt for a copy of the Summa and City of God with older copy write dates. Much can be and is often lost in the updating.
I’m sorry I hurt you in any way with the sharpness of my replies. Statements such as, “Your first sentence indicates that you are very much distracted by the world and it’s vanities,” is rather incendiary (and absurd) as is, “…and don’t imply that abortion and capital punishment are equated by anyone to try to save your pride.” (you were missing the points being made on the thread) are hardly teaching moments. Those are taunts, Anonymous. You know this.
You also know, or should know, that the Seamless Garment premise has been used – and for the sake of argument I’ll state that perhaps it has been misused – to assuage the consciences of those who promote abortion as policy. That’s a simple observation, Anonymous.
We try to be charitable to these dissenters but they just act dumb and make us think that they don’t know better but instead they are playing a game, its like a dog chasing it’s tail around and around and around. Its a madness that does not stop. FYI the dog never catches its tail. : )
YFC On another thread you got angry at the editors because you blamed them for leaving you to answer to Tracy for calling out an STD. Really? You don’t have to respond sir or madam, because you too have shown here that you are capable of ignoring comments and avoiding dialogue too of your choosing.
Don’t play victim, many of faith here are often put through having to respond to dissenters out of charity, too often. Sometimes even censored when it gets rightfully heated. This is our turf, a Catholic website and we have been VERY generous with those who dissent, we put up a lot from them. It is sometimes scandalizing. We have even lost many good Catholics who’s input where very wise and a true representation of our beautiful faith,. I see more lay faithful leaving this website in the future if more and more of the dissenters are taking over. YFC may get his wish after all, I pray not though.
To Anonymous cont:
So while you are studying, you may want to look around you at times as well so that you can observe the fruits and see how rotten they have become.
As to pride, let he who is without pride cast the first stone. Your drive-by attack mode is fraught with pride. If not, then you would take the part of humble teacher like Christ which you do not.
When asked to explain, you withdraw with snarks and then dig up counter quotes. That is not a sign of a well studied intellectual desirous of teaching the ignorant.
But either way, I am glad that you do not equate capital punishment with the killing innocent unborn children. That was my point and you seem to agree and I am glad regardless of where you came to that understanding.
God bless
If, what Steve has documented – If one contends, as we do, that the right of every fetus to be born should be protected by civil law and supported by civil consensus, then our moral, political and economic responsibilities do not stop at the moment of birth.
Those who defend the right to life of the weakest among us must be EQUALLY visible in support of the quality of life of the powerless among us: the old and the young, the hungry and the homeless, the undocumented immigrant and the unemployed worker.
Such a quality of life posture translates into specific political and economic positions on TAX POLICY, EMPLOYMENT GENERATION, WELFARE POLICY, nutrition and feeding programs, and health care. Consistency means we cannot have it both ways.” does not represent the Catholic faith’s teachings, then I don’t understand what does. This is as clear a definition of this part of our faith as you can get. It is not the only thing we believe, but if fairly represents our position on social issues. You cannot clamor for the saving of unborn children and support unfettered death penalties. You can work for the saving of unborn children and then ignore the conditions under which they are raised, the lack of food or education, etc. Our Catholic faith, because Christ died to save us, requires us to do everything we can to improve the human condition. To do otherwise is un-Christian.
Bob One writes as if there is no welfare or assistance to the poor available besides private groups we have spent close to $10 Trillion on welfare since its inception. But this is not enough for him, like most liberals more is what he wants, more taxes, more property, more money all in the name of the poor. Bob One, believes that the Church’s main mission is social policy and engineering not the salvation of souls.
We need to help those truly in need.
It is wrong to make people some lazy and dependent upon the government.
Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) when he was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith –
has clearly stated that Catholics may not support politicians (and by extension Parties) that support ABORTION or EUTHANASIA.
https://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm
Killing innocent and defenseless human beings takes precedent over tax policies, etc.
Please provide evidence for you unabashed claim: “It is wrong to make people some lazy and dependent upon the government.”
Who MAKES people some lazy and dependent???
I think you just project your own notion of laziness, rather than provide a doctrinal justification for your own stinginess.
“Your Fellow Catholic” and others: Liberals adore C. Bernardin’s “Seamless Garment” theories in that they can easily be used to reduce the opprobrium for sins such as: abortion and homosexual sex (and violations of Catholic sexual ethics, generally). In fact, homosexual lobbying groups learned quickly to use these principles offensively to support their claims to a morally abherrant lifestyle as a “civil right.” According to liberal versions of this nutty doctrine (which, unfortunately, did not start with C. Bernardin), it is much better to oppose all war, and “injustice” than to narrowly proscribe voluntary (and “loving”) human interrlationships; blah, blah, blah. Sin is rarely mentioned, unless it is the “sin against mankind of nuclear war” or “evils against the environment” and all that dopey stuff. Dialogue was the key, because, without rules against sin, you might be able to talk your way around bad behavior, and to accuse others, who did not change their minds against a particular sin, of being “un-Catholic” or “unpastoral” or “rigid” or “Medieval” or, … wait … this is starting to sound a lot like Cardinal Kasper, Cardinal Maradiaga, and the other liberal members of the “brain trust” that appears to be influencing an apparently gullible Pope Francis? Perhaps Frank Sinatra was correct in warbling, “And now, the end is here, and so I face the final curtain.” (“My Way,” by Jacques Revaux/others.)
Lookit, I’m gay, and I have never heard the Seamless Garment issue used to defend my rights. Even if I had, it doesn’t make the Bishop a heretic.
CCC: ” 2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life.
Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law.
The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life. ”
CCC: “2089 … HERESY is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; …
SCHISM is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”
One can not equate the intentional murder of the innocent -with tax and other social issues.
The Church does not excommunicate for your tax or other social beliefs.
St. Christopher, with this “brain trust” of Cardinals you mentioned I think we as a Church are headed for some very, very dark days….
This argument of ‘equal care from the moment of birth’ unquote is stunning for its blindness, namely that since Roe v. Wade, at least 50 million children never got to experience the moment of birth. But its all equal to the progressive mind. No, it is not: but it is an attempt for them to assuage their conscience, distracting them from those people who have died.
Or what of capital punishment? Since 1975 and the reinstatement of the death penalty perhaps 2000 people have been lawfully executed in this country. Yet China executes an estimated 4000 people per year. Silence. North Korea perhaps executes tens of thousands. Silence. Iran, Cuba, other regimes —hundreds, if not more. Silence.
This is the progressive Catholic’s ‘seamless ethic’. Seamless hypocrisy.
This is the true teaching of the Church regarding DEATH PENALTY – not what some people progressives push.
CCC: ” 2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty,
if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm – without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself – the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”
In the USA taking all the murder, rape and other serious crime = the death penalty is indeed rare.
For those who wish to see Bernardin’s personal “SEAMLESS GARMENT” theory speech made at Fordham University in 1983, here is a link.
See I, Part II. Paragraph 15 – which equates EQUALLY visible for ABORTION(murder of the innocent) with TAX POLICY, EMPLOYMENT GENERATION, WELFARE POLICY, etc.
https://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bernardingannon.html
This is NOT Church teaching, only Joseph Bernardin teaching.
Save the link for future reference.
There is a huge difference between non-negotiable actions (intentional murder), and personal subjective opinions on tax policy etc.
The Church does not teach that all Cardinals and all Bishops will get to Heaven.
Here is a link to the public COURT documents of Joseph Cardinal Bernardin aiding and abetting sexual child abuse.
https://www.wcpo.com/news/national/chicago-archdioces-his-decades-of-child-abuse
After getting to site, click on any of the words typed in blue.
Steve Phoenix, you bring up a great point! I imagine that the “silence” can be attributed to the fact that progressives also believe that ‘we need to be tolerant of other cultures’. :(
One does not need to read the writings of Saints and Popes to accurately know the teachings of the Church.
In fact sometimes these things can be misinterpreted depending on the bent of the viewer.
The teachings that ALL Catholics are obligated to adhere to are contained in the CCC. Simple but accurate paragraphs that all those of normal intelligence can understand.
“….the CATECHISM has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians, and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine, enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates, lives, and prays in her daily life.” – Saint Pope John Paul II (CCC pg xiv)
3. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia. (Cardinal Ratzinger — made public on July 2004)
https://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm
Good comments Tracy.
“Your fellow am here on my own free will” please leave Ann and Tracy alone now.