As an editor, a writer, and a reader, I cherish clarity of expression. As a Catholic, I am appalled by the abuses of language — the pretense, the confusion, the obfuscation, and even the outright deceit — that I see in many recent pronouncements from our Church leadership.
Last week the Vatican announced that a meeting Synod of Bishops, which scheduled for October 2022, will be postponed for a year, to allow for broader discussions of the chosen topic: synodality. The Vatican has suggested a full program of consultations: in parishes, then at the level of dioceses, then episcopal conferences, and finally at the “continental” level, leading to the bishops’ session in Rome.
The topic of all these consultations, again, will be synodality. The quest for synodality is a key theme in the teaching of Pope Francis. But the truth is that no one has a very clear understanding what “synodality” means. And maybe that’s the point. Will a year of consultations clarify things, or will it simply allow for more general confusion?
Or — a more likely possibility, in my view — will that general confusion allow for a cadre of activists to seize control of the process, and turn “synodality” into a handy cover for their own preferred plans?
This week, in a similar development, the Vatican unveiled a a seven-year “action platform” to implement the teaching of the encyclical on the environment. Pope Francis explained the ambitious goal of this program, saying that “we need a new ecological approach, that can transform our way of dwelling in the world.”
So how does the Vatican propose to transform human life? The plan suggests that the first year of the effort should focus on “the three fundamental tasks of community building, resource sharing, and drawing up of concrete action plans.” Thus after calling for seven years of concrete action, the Vatican proposes to begin by making plans for concrete action. So this isn’t really an “action platform,” so much as a call for some action(s) which have not yet been identified. The Vatican’s plan, as described, is not for specific actions but for a lengthy and malleable process.
In both cases — the synod consultation and the environmental “action platform” — the Vatican calls for the recruitment of activists who will work with parishes, dioceses, and episcopal conferences to pursue the desired goals. So a fresh layer will be added to the ecclesiastical bureaucracy, with new operatives holding meetings, attending conferences, issuing statements, and promoting what they see as the top priorities for their Catholic communities.
The great conservative theorist Russell Kirk attended the “Call to Action” conference in Detroit in 1976, and saw how a cadre of such activists — whom he described as “the church mice” — could and did drive the agenda, producing a pastoral disaster from which the Church in America has not yet fully recovered. The bishops who should have controlled the meeting were unprepared; the activists were oh-so-very prepared, and ready to seize the day.
Is this the meaning of “synodality” — a process that would allow a determined, organized minority to dictate pastoral practice? Is this the way the Vatican under Pope Francis proposes to transform human activity, ushering in an environmentalist utopia? And if that is the immediate future of our Church, what will the cost be, in terms of the integrity of Catholic doctrine, the vigor of sacramental life, and the mission to make disciples of all nations?
Coming next: the misuse of language by American Church leaders. (Tomorrow at 12 noon on California Catholic)
The above comes from a May 27 posting on Catholic Culture by Phil Lawler. Lawler has served as editor of Crisis magazine, Catholic World Report and wrote the books The Faithful Departed, on the decline of Catholic influence in Boston, and Lost Shepherd, on the policies of Pope Francis.
It’s the latest weapon to turn the Catholic Church into a protestant club. A disaster in the making.
Assuming the worst and getting trads riled up before anything has even happened. So much of conservative Catholicism on the internet is click bait.
Yes. There is a lot of crying before your hurt and just the general “age of outrage.”
When people are trying to make a living by being Catholic and writing about it, they have to keep coming up with content.
The evangelical Catholics do the same thing but at least they are trying to instruct and inform people on the Bible and the Faith.
God keeps letting Francis be the pope, so he’s okay with everything. Remember, God has a plan and this is part of it. So stop complaining and trust providence. You’re not the pope; Francis is. It’s the Holy Spirit’s doing.
Yes, God does let Francis remain as Pope. But that doesn’t mean that he agrees with anything he does.
For example, did God approve of Emperor Nero or will he approve of the False Prophet or the Anti-Christ?
If it isn’t sin…God gave the keys to Peter. and his successors.
Whether Francis is Pope is unrelated to whether God approves or disapproves of Francis’s behavior. Also, please note that several Popes of the Dark Ages had souls that were laden with sin. Sin has little to do with whether a papal election was valid.
God will always find a way to draw good out of a situation regardless of the evil that men do. But God’s goodness does not excuse the evil that men do. Further, we should never tempt God by doing evil so as to challenge God to do good.
Upon his death, Francis will be held accountable for his actions as Pope. To those given more, more will be expected. If Francis fears God, he should tremble at these words.
Steve Seitz, I think that all that you said is true. I think it is off somehow. I can’t really get my head around God approving something. That whole concept is weird. There are good acts, thoughts, speech as well as sinful as well as neutral.
As Catholics we may be concerned about something the Pope says or does (every Pope raised my eyebrows at some point). It is our job to pray for the Pope.
I am sure that the Pope is very aware of the gravity of his position. That is why he so often asks for prayer for himself and for others.
If you obey this Pope and the Church, you will be holy.
I worry more about the souls of those who criticize him. And even more about the souls of those who lie about him. I pray for all in error to be corrected, whether clergy or laity.
I think maybe the concept you were meaning was being pleasing to God?
But does Cdl. Bergoglio himself want to be called ‘Pope’? He insists on the title ‘Bishop of Rome’ instead, no?
And according to the Vatican’s yearbook (2020), he doesn’t even accept the title ‘Vicar of Christ’, except as a title that has been “historically” associated with the Roman bishopric.
If that’s really what he wants, then I say give it to him: he’s Bishop of Rome, full stop.
The Bishop of Rome is ipso facto the Pope.
Downvoting that shows you don’t understand canon law.
Can. 331 The bishop of the Roman Church, in whom continues the office given by the Lord uniquely to Peter, the first of the Apostles, and to be transmitted to his successors, is the head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ, and the pastor of the universal Church on earth. By virtue of his office he possesses supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power in the Church, which he is always able to exercise freely.
Trads don’t really know as much as they pretend to. They want a church molded to suit their feelings, not Revelation, not Canon Law, not dogma or doctrine… just their feelings. Don’t ever let a trad intimidate you. They show that they don’t know that much.
Anonymous 2:47, are you ready yet to quit with your nasty ad hominems? They really are tiring, among other things.
Besides, why do you cite that canon? If you think that canon proves anything relevant to my original post, then I’m afraid you just don’t understand that post’s backstory, or why I downvoted the above comment (yours?). I would suggest, rather than me microblogging here, some more internet reading to help.
Juan, instead of playing coy, why don’t you just come out and admit you subscribe to the Mazza hypothesis, which asserts that Pope Benedict intended to bifurcate the papacy such that the Successor of Peter need no longer be the same person as the Bishop of Rome. The Mazza hypothesis is null and void, by the way, and has been refuted, such as here:
Yes, we educated Novus Ordo Catholics know all about crazy traddy conspiracy theories. No need to hint at things. Just spell out what you believe, like I do.
You just don’t like being disproven. If you want to continue to believe your crazy conspiracy theories, you’ll have to stop reading my posts. Because I’ll refute every trad error.
Anonymous, you do not understand– Pope Francis does not like “the rules,” and he detests Canon Law, among other things. Oh– and by the way– if you are Pro-Abortion, and have just proudly legalized Abortion in your country (Argentina) and are married but separated from your wife, and “shacking-up” with your mistress, and take your mistress proudly for a big Papal audience at the Vatican– Pope Francis will receive you two, never scold or impose Canon 915 or any Canon laws regarding adultery on you. Instead, he will have a big prelate say a private Mass just for you two, and give you both Holy Communion.
I am referring to Argentina’s Pro-Abortion President Alberto Fernandez and his mistress, in my post of June 1 at 10:55pm
Juan, pray…really pray. These petty things are just distractions and can cost you Heaven.
We’re at a tipping point in the most extraodinary crisis in the Church’s history and some would have us believe that the putative Vicar of Christ distancing himself from that title is just some little ol’ thing. “Nothin’ to see here,” they say. “Just keep praying, but don’t think or ask questions, ’cause that’s not Catholic.”
Please stay away from Ann Barnhardt’s blog, Juan. It’s not good for your psychological health nor your faith.
Juan, pray…really pray. Rosary, Chaplet of Mercy, Divine Office, mental prayer, Lectio Divina. Pray the Our Father and Hail Mary and Glory be slowly. Like take 15 minutes to pray them.
This is nowhere near the most extraordinary crisis in the Church’s history.
The Pope wanting to be called the Bishop of Rome is humility. He knows he is Pope. Stop making mountains out of molehills.
Be educated in the faith but please don’t use the Internet unless it is the Bible, the Catechism or a upload of a Catholic classic prayer book or writing of the saints.
Learn the Church fathers. Learn Church history (but don’t go there until you are secure in your faith.)
The Internet is full of people who know a little and are dangerous.
Anonymous June 4 8:06 am:
Are you deliberately trying to misinform people and lead them astray under the pretext of Catholic piety, or are you really just that misinformed and lead astray already?
Your message is clear: Pray, but don’t think and don’t act.
With all due respect, that is not the message of the Gospel.
God lets Francis be pope but doesn’t agree with anything he does?
You couldn’t have come up with a better argument for people to stop being Catholic if you tried.
What kind of God founds a church, instills a man as its head, his representative on earth, but lets him continue running the church if God doesn’t agree with the way he’s running things?
Anonymous. Does that include you in the part about those who lie about this Pope? And maybe you ought to ask God why He would allow “bad Popes” to reign in the past.
Did God approve of all the tyrants in history? Did God approve of McCarrick? Did God approve of all the Priests who abused young men?
Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI held synods, and the trads never objected then. Only now when Pope Francis has synods do they object. Are they Catholic or what? Just follow the pope if you like him and if you don’t then cry about what he does? What’s Catholic about that?
Did you even read the article? There’s a hidden agenda.
You’re trying to predict the future, a very dangerous game to play.
Synods are not free to change or make up Catholic doctrine. We are a Church that is Catholic, that is, whole and world-wide. Archbishop Aquila of Denver issued an open letter to his fellow bishops regarding the German bishops’ proposed “synodal path.” In his letter, he called on bishops to be the first to “repent and believe” even as they call the world to do the same.
The following day, Archbishop Cordileone of San Francisco publicly supported Archbishop Aquila’s response to the German bishops’ “synodal path.”
“We are all in Archbishop Aquila’s debt for such an extraordinary, reasoned, and theologically rich response to the German bishops’ ‘Synodal Path,’ which proposes a radical transformation to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Church he left us,” stated Cordileone on Wednesday.
Archbishop Cordileone said Aquila’s letter “reminds me of the forthright way St. Paul spoke to the Corinthians, Galatians, Thessalonians and others.”
If you really want to see what the current problem with synods, specifically the German bishops, is, read what AB Aquila wrote, linked below.
Deacon, they don’t care, changing doctrine is their end game. They will change by claiming they are being pastoral..
Thank you, Deacon Anderson, for this link.
NWO Marxists who hate the church have been doing all they can to destroy it. This whole operation seems fishy, like something ginned up by the freemason cabal to infiltrate and influence the church. Pray the rosary every day that the protection of Mary’s Immaculate Heart will stop the infiltration and attempts to destroy the Church, the Body of Christ of her glorious Son Jesus. We see bishop against bishop as the Blessed Mother forecast from Akita. Local synods will produce dangerous ideas that will receive the support of bad bishops and work their way up the food chain to the Vatican. Mother Mary, have mercy on us and pray for the church that St. Michael defeat our enemies and push them back into hell. Work a miracel for us, Mary Most Dear.
Philip Lawler is outstanding — I very much enjoy all that he writes. Pope Francis likes his Catholics to live, “hippie-free and loose,” no rules– and he likes to focus on secular issues, not religious issues of importance. The liturgical form is always secondary to the daily, dedicated practice of our faith and morals. Where is Pope Francis’ big plan to instill Christian morality in his Catholics and end the filthy, sinful “hippie sex revolution,” and abortion? And discipline all the “bad Catholic” politicians, too? Tell them all “No,” on reception of Holy Communion. And tell them, they had better all stop enabling, promoting, and enforcing the killing of unborn babies– and work hard on making abortion illegal in their countries.
Finding camps and bloqs within the Church is poisonous: TLM vs NO; Cupich et al vs Cordileone et al; German Bishops vs Aquila & allied bishops; Sarah vs Roche
The more division, the more poison. The more public the division, the more poisonous still.
Pope Francis just wants people to work together as the Church. Phil Lawler is right that people can have their own agenda and not the Holy Spirit’s. that is what Pope Francis is warning about here:
It is interesting that the “conservatives” were supportive of the synods when Popes Benedict and John Paul II were in charge. In fact, a small group of conservative activists took charge of those synods and influenced the outcomes. So why the fear-mongering from the right when Pope Francis calls for a synod? Could it be they are afraid of the Holy Spirit’s works in the Church after all of the sexual abuse and financial scandals?
No Fred, because we recognize a scam when we see one. The Vatican will crack down on Faithful Catholic but will do nothing about what the Church in Germany is doing. I also find it interesting that liberals like you resisted Pope’s John Paul and Benedict at every turn.
bohemond, how is the Vatican going to crack down on faithful Catholics? That makes no sense. Those in Germany are rebelling against the Vatican. I am sure there have been conversations.
None of this is new.
Did you participate in the Rosary Marathon? Biggest crowds-Nigeria and Lebanon.
No we’re afraid of the Devil’s infiltration. The Holy Spirit doesn’t spread confusion. And how can we clean up the sexual abuse when the Church fails to identify that homosexual abuse which was the majority of abuse? To this day they still label it “pedophilia” when less than 6% involved this, and over three quarters involved homosexual abuse of teenage boys and young men.
Strange God who lets the devil infiltrate his church so pervasively.
He is not strange. He is all-powerful and all-knowing. The devil has the power that the Lord allows. He is the prince of this world and the Church is in the world but the Lord has overcome both the world and the devil.
“Now have salvation and power come, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Anointed.
For the accuser* of our brothers is cast out, who accuses them before our God day and night.
They conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; love for life did not deter them from death.
Therefore, rejoice, you heavens, and you who dwell in them.
But woe to you, earth and sea, for the Devil has come down to you in great fury, for he knows he has but a short time.”
In the world you will have trouble, but take courage, I have conquered the world. John 16:33
God turned His face away from Israel, why should we assume that He won’t do the same to us when we ignore His warnings?
I’m convinced the unreleased portion of the Fatima message was that the Church would be turned over to infiltrators who would all but destroy the faith. That is consistent with La Salette, Quito and Akita, as well as with Our Lord’s warnings Holy Scripture.
Enjoy the ride!
Wild speculation about Fatima. Oh brother.
Why should we have to suffer for the sins of others? Raw deal, if you ask me.
Christ suffers for the sins of others. Including your sins, Anonymous. His Sacred Heart is pierced cruelly by your abusive, uncharitable writings. Better obey Our Lady and do as she requests!
Anonymous– Christ suffers for the sins of others. Including your sins, Anonymous. His Sacred Heart is pierced cruelly by your abusive, uncharitable writings. Better obey Our Lady and do as she requests!
Do what our Lady asked at La Salette, Quito and Akita
Keep Holy the Lord’s Day.
Do not swear and take the Lord’s Name in vain.
Say your prayers well, morning and evening, at least one Our Father and one Hail Mary but when you have time, do more.
Stay faithful, no matter what happens.
Suffer for the sins of others. (offer it up!)
Pray very much for the Pope, bishops and priests.
Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary.
Place your confidence in Mary.
Fred, can you give me one example of anything coming out of synods under St. John Paul or Pope Benedict that involved changing Catholic faith or morals?
Please read Archbishop Aquila’s open letter to his brother bishops. The German bishops are proposing (or at least seem to be close to proposing and implementing) practices that are contrary to the Faith.
Do you accept what Christ teaches about sex and sin? Do you accept the Scriptures and Tradition about such?
If you do, you would have the same concern (if you’re aware of what the German bishops are doing).
I mean these questions sincerely, not merely rhetorically.
I hope that helps explain the difference (not all synods are the same).
Dn. Anderson asks, “Fred, can you give me one example of anything coming out of synods under St. John Paul or Pope Benedict that involved changing Catholic faith or morals?”
Next: Dn. Anderson does an awesome mic drop an struts offstage.
Juan, I’m still here, if you or Fred would like to answer my question(s).
(And, I’ll add another one: what makes you think I strut? Don’t worry, I won’t make comments about the way you walk. Such seems irrelevant to the discussion here.)
I use my real name and will answer any questions about anything I post. Or, feel free to come by some Sunday morning and I’d be happy to have a discussion with you.
Synods under previous popes are unlike what the German bishops are doing. (Did you read AB Aquila’s letter?)
According to Fr. Z’s blog a new Canon Law #1379$3 makes it a criminal offense (excommunicable) to attempt to ordain a woman to any of the three sacred orders (episcopal, priesthood and diaconate). If that is so, that should close the case on female deacons and priests of any kind.
Dear Deacon, I meant to you pay you a compliment, as I think you made a truly _excellent_ point. Cheers.
As people become more narcissistic and materialistic, they lose humility and become more entitled. It takes humility to mind your own business and let those who the Lord has chosen to lead do their jobs-well or poorly. They all need our prayers.
But why should people be Catholic if God doesn’t ensure the Church is run well?
I am sure you know this story but I will tell it again…
Archbishop Sheen had spent a long time instructing a prominent person in the Faith and the person was ready to be baptized. He was going to the Vatican before his baptism and Bishop Sheen was concerned that after seeing how things were run there, he would change his mind.
When the man returned, he requested that Archbishop Sheen baptize him immediately. Relieved, Archbishop Sheen admitted to him his fear. The man said ” I know this Church is God’s Church. No organization that is run this badly could have survived for 1900 years if it wasn’t.”
Because that is God’s Will. Perhaps God is testing you to see what is more important to you-Him or having a human organization that you are proud of?
Because yeah that’s just the way I got my wife to marry me, by ignoring her, mistreating her, letting others mistreat her, and testing her to see what was more important to her: me or having a relationship she could be proud of.
God is supposed to be the shepherd who leaves the 99 sheep in search of the lost sheep. He sure seems to have abandoned his flock because they are about 99 million lost sheep, and they continue to increase in number.
He is in the Eucharist in the Tabernacle 24/7. Did you perhaps abandon Him?
He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle to me. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do.”
That is exactly how many people treat God.
But God patiently waits and even guides them home.
You seem like a little lost sheep yourself.
Listen for His Call. Then follow Him.
Actually, I was called home by His Mother.
+Sigh+ This is JUST for you Anon.
From Ronald Rolheiser.
“The Church is always God hung between two thieves. Thus, no one should be surprised or shocked at how badly the church has betrayed the gospel and how much it continues to do so today. It had never done very well. Conversely, however, nobody should deny the good the church has done either. It has carried grace, produced saints, morally challenged the planet, and made, however imperfectly, a house for God to dwell in on this earth.
To be connected with the church is to be associated with scoundrels, warmongers, fakes, child molesters, murderers, adulterers, and hypocrites of every description. It also, at the same time, identifies you with the saints and the finest persons of heroic soul within every time, country, race, and gender. To be a member of the church is to carry the mantle of both the worst sin and the finest heroism of soul…because the church always looks exactly as it looked at the original crucifixion, God hung among thieves.”
God never forces human beings to do anything! Even the Son of God needed Mary’s “fiat” to be born, and He surrendered to the authorities who killed Him, by His own choice, telling His Father, “not My Will, but Thine be done”– and admonishing Peter to “put away his sword.” The Church is full of sinful human beings, struggling to become closer to the Christian ideal– very few are Saints. Mankind is always a “work in progress.” But the Divine Master knows that! His sheep are all “fallen,” and He wants them all to learn to follow the Christian pathway correctly, not be forced. A baby needs to learn to get up on his/her own two feet and walk, all by themselves, one step at a time– and get very strong and excellent at it! A long and slow learning process! The Saint is fully united to God, they stand alone, in complete union with God. God works with each sheep, individually, and all the sheep together, make a group of sheep for the Church– but each one is at a different level of holiness. And some are truly extremely sinful– like Theodore McCarrick!! But God works individually, with each one– He is the Divine Master! He is Divine Love and Intelligence, and knows what is best, for His Divine Plans. The results will not be understood nor seen, in this brief earthly life– but in the far future, in Eternity.
God gave Mary abundant graces. She was immaculately conceived. She would never have said no to God because she was full of grace. If God gave others the same graces he gave to Mary, then they wouldn’t sin. So why does he withhold the necessary graces?
Anonymous– When Our Lady appeared to St. Catherine Laboure, the Saint noticed her beautiful hands, with beautiful rings on each finger, and dazzlingly beautiful rays, symbolizing graces, emitted from beautiful gems in some of the rings– the larger gems emitted many larger rays, and the smaller gems emitted smaller rays. But not all of the gems on her rings emitted rays. Our Lady explained that the rays emitting from larger or smaller gems on some of the rings, symbolize the graces that she bestows on souls who ask for them. But the gems on the rings that had no rays emitting from them at all, are graces that souls forget to ask for.
Anonymous at June1, 2021 at 6:44 pm That is a good question. Mary was given an undeserved grace in order to be the Mother of the Son. No one else has been given it. No one else will ever be given it.
But at Baptism, you are cleansed of original sin and your grace will increase as you cooperate with it. High levels of sanctity are possible but very few people make the sacrifices and do the work.
Mary did not have it easy. She lost her parents at a young age. She lived in the temple until a teenager. She was married to a man she did not choose. She lived in poverty. She prayed ceaselessly. She worked tirelessly. She had her baby in a cave or stable. She had to flee to a foreign pagan country to save the life of her child. Her child went missing for three days. She knew that her child was going to suffer and so she suffered. She lost her husband. She witnessed her son being tortured and killed. She always obeyed the laws. She always trusted God. And she never had sex. She is the Queen of Martyrs and she still prays ceaselessly.
If you model you life on Mary and you practice her virtues, especially humility, you will become holy. Do you know of St. Louis de Montfort’s True Devotion to Mary?
Anonymous– God gave mankind the gift of Free Will, to make his or her own choices– right or wrong. No, God is “not okay with everything,” simply because He “keeps letting Francis be pope.” Learn your Catholic Faith well. Do not follow a pope mindlessly, worshipping him, like a young, brainwashed, starstruck “groupie.” We have had many bad popes in history, and many bad clerical leaders who committed horrific crimes– such as clerical sex abuse– crimes that were tragically, scandalously ignored, by recent popes– for example, “Mister” Theodore McCarrick. Do not worship any man of God, nor his beliefs and dictates– stand on your own two feet, choose what form of the Mass you wish to attend–it does not matter– and worship only God. God gave the gift of Free Will, even to Judas. Even to Hitler and Stalin. Even to “bad Catholic” political leaders, who vigorously promote the crime of Abortion– Baby Murder. Even to popes– who must make account before God, of their sins. And every pope has different beliefs and opinions on things. No two are alike. Worship only God.
Ronnie: the Holy Spirit is like the wind and will blow where it blows. The conservatives have certainly created and spread confusion throughout the Church.
Fred, the Holy Spirit always leads faithful Catholics along the right pathway. The true pathway is always challenging. Jesus warned us to “Enter by the Narrow Gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.” (Matt. 7:13)
to the non Catholic Fred, it is leftists like you who left a wake of destruction in the past 60 years.
Again the Holy Spirit doesn’t sow confusion. Where are conservatives spreading confusion exactly? All I’m seeing is mass confusion and dissent from Church doctrine from the Left.
Fred, the Holy Spirit always leads faithful Catholics along the right pathway. The true pathway is always challenging. Jesus warned us to “Enter by the Narrow Gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.” (Matt. 7:13)
The trad farce is shown when they will say “trust God” to those going through personal suffering or crisis but those same trads aren’t willing to trust God concerning the decisions of his church and pope. I have heard and read talk of rebellion and leaving the church if their precious TLM is restricted. Far from promoting greater unity in the church, the postconciliar TLM has produced hardened factionalism in the church to the point that many who celebrate the TLM are in de facto schism with the postconciliar Church. Many are just SSPX-lite who don’t have the courage to leave the church they nearly openly despise. We’ll see… we’ll see when the TLM is restricted how much they love the Church and trust God. Will they bring their love of Tradition to the novus ordo Mass and help better the liturgy at their local parish in the absence of the TLM? I’m betting we’ll see their true colors.
Anastymous 6:34: “the church they openly despise.”
Where is this condescension toward others taught in Fratelli tutti?
Seriously, my friend, where is your “fraternal love”?
A crisis like no other ever before seen…
And we haven’t even experienced the worst of it yet.
I’m curious: to those of you who only attend a TLM. If restrictions made it impossible for you to attend a TLM in communion with the local ordinary, would you attend the Novus Ordo Mass? Or would you go to a SSPX chapel?
Most who attend the beautiful old Latin Mass are close to Pope Benedict’s age, old enough to be your great-grandparents! No young, ignoramous loud-mouthed punks, your age– or “trads,” or “trids,” or some silly name of yours– prejudiced against the old.
I will say that in my limited experience, this statement is not true. This is especially untrue at the SSPX chapel I attend. I’d say at least half familes with children.
Good for you, anonymous. Abp. Lefebvre was a very great French cleric, an excellent missionary and catechist in Africa, who attended Vatican II, signed all the documents– but later changed his mind, when he saw many evils erupting in the post-Conciliar Church. He was honest before God, finally deciding to return to Catholic Faith and Tradition. Just like Cdl. Alfredo Ottaviani (1890-1979) the head of the Holy Office (renamed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 1966) from 1959-1968. During the period of the Second Vatican Council, Ottaviani honestly could not believe in nor accept the Council and its objectives. All of his votes were always “No,” on everything. He was simply viewed as a “leading conservative voice” at the Council, and was highly respected, regardless of his different views.
Ottaviani never left the Church. Archbishop Lefebvre died as a schismatic.
No, Abp. Lefebvre died at peace with God, Anonymous. And the SSPX excommunications all were ended by Pope Benedict. McCarrick, Cupich, McElroy, the German “bad bishops,” the 60 “bad USCCB bishops” who signed the letter against Abp. Cordileonw’s “Eucharistic proposal,” and do not wish to withhold Communion from pro-Abortion “Catholic” politicians like Biden, Becerra, and Pelosi– all will probably not die at peace with God. They are dishonest Churchmen, true “schismatics.” Unfaithful to Christ.
Charitably, schism is not dishonesty. It is not unfaithfulness to Christ. It is not disagreeing with the Pope. It is refusing submission to the Pope or refusing to worship with the Catholic Church headed by him.
I never heard that Archbishop Lefebvre reconciled with the Church after ordaining the bishops. This was an act of formal schism. I never came across anything that indicated that he repented.
The bishops did not repent but Pope Benedict XVI lifted their excommunications hoping that they would reconcile with the Church. They have refused to.
The unsigned (forgot!) June 2 post at 8:54am, of “Anonymous,” was from “Anon.”
Answer: SSPX chapel, Sede Chapel, Eastern Rite or underground TLM No NO.
No please don’t risk your soul. There are lots of valid and licit EFs. Eastern Rite is valid and licit.
bohemond– the Pope accepts the SSPX Masses. The real “schismatics” are “bad Catholic clerics” like McElroy, Cupich, the “bad German bishops,” “Mister McCarrick”– and those 60 “bad USCCB bishops” who signed that letter against Abp. Cordileone’s “Eucharistic proposal.”
Error does not make one schismatic.
Nobody questions whether SSPX masses are valid. They are. But going to a SSPX mass instead of a mass at a parish in full communion with the local ordinary and Rome is a willful act of defiance. That’s the sin.
Just cuz you asked nicely…
Several years ago, the one diocese TLM was banished to the outer reaches far beyond my ability to drive. I went back to attendng a NO Mass at a men’s religious order. The ordinary was very traditional good preaching but he was viewed by many to be a bit “old fashioned” so at the next election he was booted out to a more “modern” priest. No point in going in to detail on all the liturgical abuse I witness. The final straw was a woman in tight yoga pants acting as I dunno what. She was left to do the post communion ablutions and clearly had not been trained on how to fold a corporal in order to insure remnants of our eucharistic Lord did not fly all over the altar and floor.
Started going to a local SSPX. Best decision I ever made. I don’t think I’d still be Catholic without them.
For all the pearl clutchers, I am prepared and more than prepared to defend my decision at my particular and final judgement.
anonymouse– Good for you! The real “schismatics” are Churchmen like Cupich, McElroy, McCarrick, the “bad German clerics,” etc. Either the New Mass or the Old Mass, both are fine, including SSPX– as also accepted by the pope.
Cupich is a Cardinal in the Catholic Church therefore he is not a schismatic. Same with McCarrick. McElroy is a bishop in the Catholic Church therefore he is not a schismatic, same with the German clerics. If they split from the Church, then they will be in schism.
We have not yet seen the Vatican’s reaction to those who blessed same sex unions in defiance of Rome. We do not know if they will be sanctioned in some way.
The Vatican can move very slowly.
Faithful Catholics do not attend SSPX chapels. They persevere in their diocesan parish. Ask the Holy Spirit for fortitude.
You don’t get to defend yourself at the final judgement. Please find a valid and licit Mass to attend. Please become better educated in the Faith. I applaud your devotion to the Eucharistic Christ. He does not want you to abandon Him. (Yes, he is at SSPX Masses, but kind of as a hostage.) Please don’t forget it is never OK to do evil hoping good will come of it.
Holiness is our only true defense. There is only one way to holiness– start practicing charity and humility, Anonymous!
Anon., what do you mean “Holiness is our only true defense.” Did you mean at the final judgement? You don’t get a defense. You don’t get a defense at the particular judgement.
You get into Heaven because of God’s mercy and the Sacraments are the ordinary means by which He imparts that.
I am so relieved that Pope Francis extended the Year of Mercy faculties to SSPX priests. It always made me so sad that people thought they were getting absolution when they weren’t. I think he knew it wasn’t the people’s fault. Pray for all the other independent Catholic chapels and parishes where the Sacraments are not licit. There are over 200 of them just in the US.
” Please don’t forget it is never OK to do evil hoping good will come of it.”
“You get into Heaven because of God’s mercy and the Sacraments are the ordinary means by which He imparts that.”
So, let’s sum this up.
I am doing evil and won’t get in to heaven because I attend a vaild Catholic Mass?
Is that correct, Anon?
No that is not correct at all.
anonomouse, some of the independent chapels have been established by priests who split from the Church because of the teaching that women cannot be ordained or that same sex marriage can not be performed. Their Masses are valid but illicit (unless of course it is a woman priest then it is neither valid not licit.)
The priests who do this have a greater guilt than those who attend. An attendee could have no fault at all depending on the circumstances (like ignorance.) An attendee could have many faults other than attending an independent chapel- (divorced and remarried, had an abortion and has not repented, adultery-who knows?)
One cannot say the state of a person’s soul.
Your attendance at a SSPX Mass is a deliberate act of defiance against the Roman Catholic Church.
May I share with you my testimony? Back before Ecclesia Dei, when my parish was in what they now call the “silly season” I remember sitting in Mass and always turning to the tabernacle to make reparation whenever anything I thought offended the Lord happened. I remember going before the tabernacle and telling the Lord that even if no one else believed in Him, I did. I did a lot of Eucharistic Adorations. I remember that I left to go to a different parish when our pastor altered the Mass (not the consecration) but received some “signs” that I was doing the wrong thing so I returned and I just prayed for the pastor and for anyone that I thought was in error. You would not recognize it as the same Church today. The tabernacle is behind the altar; rosaries are prayed several times every week; confessions have gotten so that you have to get there early to get in, the pastor has been moved, but he stopped changing the Mass and has become a priest who obeys the Church.
i just want to encourage you who know enough and care enough that a Mass is valid, not to abandon the Church. Invoke Mary. Invoke the Holy Spirit. Stay and pray.
If I go to a Mass celebrated by a woman is that valid?
A Mass celebrated by a woman is not valid.
I don’t like it because you are helping that SSPX priest go to hell. If he gave a Mass and nobody came, he would be admonished and hopefully repent. It is a seriously grave mortal sin for them to say a public Mass.
Thanks. I’ve added this one to my “Whacky SSPX” quote archive.
All of the SSPX priests are suspended. Suspended priests are not to say public Mass. The priests know this. They may not tell you, but they know. They are hoping for God’s mercy when they die, as we all are.
Anonymous, you really are uneducated, and know nothing at all! Yes, SSPX Masses are valid, and so are Eastern Rite Masses! Abp. Sheen was a bi-ritual cleric in both Rites! So are many other priests and bishops! You really do need lots of charity and respect for others, Anonymous!
SSPX Masses are valid but not licit. Eastern Rite Catholic Masses are both. I always need more charity. Please pray for me.
So the Catholic church does accept being bi?