The bishop credited with writing the Amazon Synod’s controversial working document has stated that Pope John Paul II’s teaching about the impossibility of female priests is “not a dogma.”
Bishop Erwin Kräutler, the retired bishop of Xingu, Brazil, made this claim in an interview with Blickpunkt Lateinamerika, the journal of the German relief agency Adveniat – a group which heavily funded the preparations for the upcoming Synod happening in Rome October 6-27.
Making it once more clear that he is in favor of female priests, the Bishop explained that the reason why he never speaks of “viri probati” (morally proven married men who could possibly be ordained), but, rather, of “personae probatae” (proven persons) is because the former is “too much bound to one sex.”
“I know it is not easy to oppose exclusion of women from the ordained priesthood, as it has been cemented [sic] by Pope John Paul II in his 1994 apostolic document Ordinatio Sacerdotalis,” he said, adding: “But, even if the Pope explained at the time that ‘all the faithful of the Church are definitely to hold this decision,’ it is nevertheless not a dogma.”
The Austrian bishop has been involved in preparations for the Amazon Synod since 2014 after he met Pope Francis in a private audience, at which he discussed with the Pope the ideas of Bishop Fritz Lobinger to ordain married priests. Lobinger also proposes to ordain women.
At that audience, Pope Francis told Kräutler to make “bold proposals” for the Amazon region.
In March of 2018, the Pope called the bishop into the pre-synodal council for the Amazon Synod. Different progressivist sources, such as The Tablet and Professor Paul Zulehner, claim that the Austrian bishop is the main author of the synod’s working document.
Full story at LifeSiteNews.
Perhaps one of the issues ‘former Catholics’ have with the Church is what they view as second class treatment of women by refusing to ordain them.
Second class treatment ? No just called to serve in different ways. If women did become priests would it help ?, by that I mean increase converts, reverts etc, an increase in holiness and devotions , or what. How have women priests helped the protestant demonations grow in numbers or virtue ?.
Excellent point Rick, only the secular minded think in terms of “second class treatment”,
By showing acceptance of inclusion . Women need to be given the opportunities to be present as men especially in a faith setting. Whether she chooses to serve in those opportunities is up to her.
When we do not provide a place for women at the table of a place of worship we are saying , “ you are not included”, that alone is one of the major reasons people leave a faith based setting. They do not feel welcomed.
agreeing with anonymous at 8:32 am and with mike m
Women are included in a faith setting , I would point to Mother Angelica , women Doctors of the Church, women lay evangelists etc.To be present as men ? they are not men they have different roles , I would say in the case of lay evangelists they can have a greater influence since they are not ordained religious. As far as reasons why they leave the faith if this is the reason do they go to a schismatic or protestant church where women priests are allowed ? is this a fact or your opinion ? if it is your opinion , ok what is it based on . If after this synod women priests are allowed do you think that the church would grow or go into scism . I have found the outsiders calling for women priests would not swell our ranks.
I am female. I concluded after prayer and study that it is not the will of the Lord for women to be priests or ministers. My discernment on this was way before Pope John Paul II reiterated the Church’s teaching. All of the baptized are members of the Mystical Body of Christ and we share in His priesthood. The ordained priesthood is exclusively for men, but not for any man. No one is entitled to it.
Well I’ve studied and prayed too. And that has led me to the conclusion that in many ways the Church is removing what history has shows was the rightful place of women. There is growing archeological evidence that women were vested in liturgical garments while adopting the orans posture. We know quite clearly that abbesses have exercised the same ecclesiastical functions as bishops in terms of governance. We know that historically, even after the all-male priesthood was inflicted on the Church, priests didn’t occupy the position of absolute authority over the parish – and that women were clearly part of the decision making, especially in the era of the house-church and in communities under severe persecution. So I don’t know for sure whether women were ever leaders at the eucharistic assembly, which is after all the origin of the term “priest”, I DO know that women once had much greater authority over both their local assembly and larger ecclesial communities We have regressed. And having regressed, we have misunderstood the historical role of the ministerial priesthood, diminished the understanding of the priesthood of all the faithful, and alientated millions of women and their families from the liturgical life of the Church.
Your Fellow Catholic, one of the easy ways that you can tell whether your discernment is correct is by whether it contradicts Church teaching. If it does, then it is not from God.
I didn’t disagree with Church teaching in what I wrote.
Several answers to this comment come to mind.
+”second class treatment of women by refusing to ordain them”. I have no doubt that there are women who “feel” this way. Likely always have been and always will be. Even with adequate catechesis.
This is hardly the reason to ordain women.
++Many protestant sects have ordained women and continue to see plunging (worse than Catholic) attendance.
+++ In our Faith, the most venerated is Mary, the Holy Mother. Only after God himself do we raise a woman t such high level.
I want to say that I love to see women in the Church and want them to have active sacramental life according to the roles the God has endowed them with. Equal does not mean the Same As.
Let’s see, something that the Church has maintained for more than 2,000 years and has been reiterated by Councils and Popes is not “dogma?” I trust that the Holy Spirit has been guiding the Church and that Jesus is true to His promises. We should pray fervently for this “Amazon Synod,” whatever it is.
Which type of Amazons is this synod for?
1. a member of a legendary race of female warriors believed by the ancient Greeks to exist in Scythia (near the Black Sea in modern Russia) or elsewhere on the edge of the known world.
•a tall and strong or athletic woman.
2. a parrot, typically green, found in Central and South America.
or is it related to the packages that arrive at my door?
I would probably agree with the bishop that the exclusion of females from the ministerial priesthood is not a dogma. Rather, it’s an impediment — just as marrying a horse is an impediment to marriage.
It’s important to remember that Pope Francis has said that the idea of ordaining women to the priesthood is a closed door.
It is a dogma, and it is infallible; just not pronounced ex cathedra,which wasn’t and isn’t necessary. This bishop needs remedial theological education.
If the church ever ordains women it will prove that it isn’t the church of Jesus Christ.
Wow… that’s an unbelievable statement. Take off your blinders. Women have done an amazing job at keeping the church active in lives of many on the fringes of society. Please explain what is “the Church of Jesus Christ”. Sounds like it is not at all inclusive.
Dear Curious about amazon
you raise several brilliant points
(reminds me of Bush Sr “thousand points of light speech
except this is Francis’ thousand points of (theological) blight)
This is clearly related to Amazon Prime:
theolgical nonsense delivered to your door – pronto !!
There is no way I would ever attend a “church” with women priestesses. It would no longer be Christian but pagan. St. John Paul II clearly stated that the Church has no power whatsoever to ordain women, so does 2000 years of history. End of discussion for me. Stop beating that dead horse.
Except that there is evidence that there were women priests in the early centuries of the Church, so if you are hitching your horse to history, you might want to rethink your strategy.
Jesus ordained only men. Only men apostles. Was Jesus wrong?
If Jesus had wanted to create priestesses, he had the ideal woman in the Holy Mother.
Jesus ordained bishops, in a symbolic act that didn’t include any kind of regulations about how to pass on even that office. He left no instructions behind telling us what to do about priests and deacons. In fact, women of the biblical era were clearly deacons. The only rule he left us was his example, and he was pretty clear. He said “Do this!” His rule was to feed people with his own body and blood. By another account (John) he said “If I do this for you, you should do it for one another!”: Therefore, we are to wash each other’s feet when they are unclean. That’s it. That’s his commandment. It’s actually called the Great Mandate. Now we have people arguing even about whether he REALLY meant to have the people take and drink the Cup. If we use the last supper to exclude women from the priesthood, we could use that same last supper to exclude them from receiving communion or serving the sick.
You really didn’t answer my question. Was Jesus wrong when he only created male apostles? If He had wanted female apostles, He would have done so. Why do you have a problem with Jesus?
“If we use the last supper to exclude women from the priesthood, we could use that same last supper to exclude them from receiving communion or serving the sick.” Now, this is just plain silly. Illogical extrapolation from nothing.
Holy Thursday. The Church has always celebrated this event as the ordination to the priesthood. Again, all male. Vir. Women priests has nothing to do with any other sacrament and you know it.
There are no historical conclusive evidence of ordained women deacons or priests in the latin Church. Candidly, when I recently searched for just that info, all I see are links to HuffPo, “WomenPreists”, NYT, etc. When I see something from a reputable imprimatured authority I will be glad to have a different discussion. Don’t you think after 2000+ years that we’d have some sort of evidence by now?
Ketih, just because only men were said to be at the last supper doesn’t mean that only men are to be recipients of the graces instituted at the last supper. So no, Jesus was not wrong. I’m suggesting wewould be wrong to read too much into what he did and said. He only gave communion to men. Was he wrong to only give communion to men? Was he wrong to give communion under both species?
No, there is no evidence of women priests in the early centuries of the Church.
You think things can’t get worse and then . . . . we must be living in end times.
May that be, its time to put this place to an end
Barb , be of good cheer ! be a happy warrior ,do not get discouraged, that is what evil wants .God bless
There is hope yet for the Catholic Church. Male priests have certainly damaged the holiness of the priesthood by their sexual abuse of children- almost to the point of destruction of the Church- that perhaps God is working in a new way in the Church. The ordination of women to the Catholic priesthood would be a wonderful sign of the Holy Spirit working in the Church.
Lucy ,no I don’t think so , other denominations have women priests and there numbers have been going down. Not all male priests are to blame when you look at who was screening these men it was bad formation , good men were eliminated , evil men were welcomed , consider mccarrick and his ilk in priestly formations and recruiting . Good solid traditional priests are the solution, I attend a Eastern Rite Church, so I would be good with men that are already married becoming priests, I don’t think that women priests would help , better male priests would.
You are ignoring the Catholic children that were abused by females, usually nuns.
Priests, liturgically, stand in the place of Christ. Christ is male. Priests are male. Just as bread and wine are the proper matter for the Eucharist (rather than, say, sardines and milk), so men are the proper matter for the priesthood. And I feel in no way diminished or “second class” because of this. There is no such thing as second-class salvation.
It is true that priests stand in the place of Christ, liturgically. Christ was male. He was also Jewish and circumsized liturgically. Do we require our priests to be Jewish and circumcized liturgically? Every single one of those present at the last supper were Jewish and circumsized liturgically. How far do we have to take this analogy?
The holiest, purest, best of our human race is a woman, Our Lady. Nothing second class there. And, no Church going back to the Apostles, Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, has ever ordained women to the sacrament of Holy Order. Theotokos, Mother of God; Saint Catherine of Siena, Saint Mary of Egypt, Saint Teresa of Avila, Saint Macrina, Saint Teresa Benedicta of the Cross, and all strong, holy women of God, pray for us.
Anon: the data shows the rate of sexual abuse by Catholic Sisters is considerably lower than the rate for Catholic Priests.
And whom did God pick to be the Mother of His Son………Mary a WOMAN!!!
You cannot get any higher ‘ranking’ in the Church as Our Lady!!!
Are you supposing that God would have picked as his mother something other than a woman?
How is that even relevant to the Amazon synod?
in which a small part of the question, at the far reaches of possibility, MIGHT be whether to ordain married men in certain circumstances, as she has done in several other pastorally needful circumstances.
Is Mary opposed to bringing the Sacraments to the far reaches of the earth? I highly doubt it!!
There is a pro-life group online that is asking for a novena to Our Lady of Good Remedy due to the many concerns about this Synod.
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/devotions/our-lady-of-good-remedy-novena-313
The intention is “For the Pope and the Amazon Synod Fathers to both affirm and defend the integrity of the deposit of the Faith and tradition, and for God to preserve His Church from apostasy and heresy.”
Prayer from the Roman Missal for a Council or Synod:
Lord, protector and ruler of Your Church,fill Your servants with a spirit of understanding, truth and peace. Help them to strive with all their hearts to learn what is pleasing to You and to follow it with all their strength.
There is no historical precept whatsoever for women recieving holy orders. None.
For those saying otherwise, pls note:
“Similarly with regard to deaconesses and all in general whose names have been included in the roll, the same form shall be observed. We refer to deaconesses who have been granted this status, for they do not receive any imposition of hands, so that they are in all respects to be numbered among the laity.” (First Council of Nicaea)
“The Catholic Church has never felt that priestly or episcopal ordination can be validly conferred on women. A few heretical sects in the first centuries, especially Gnostic ones, entrusted the exercise of the priestly ministry to women: This innovation was immediately noted and condemned by the Fathers, who considered it as unacceptable in the Church… in the writings of the Fathers…one finds expressed – especially in the canonical documents of the Antiochan and Egyptian traditions – this essential reason, namely, that by calling only men to the priestly Order and ministry in its true sense, the Church intends to remain faithful to the type of ordained ministry willed by the Lord Jesus Christ and carefully maintained by the Apostles… The same conviction animates medieval theology… The Church’s tradition in the matter has thus been so firm in the course of the centuries that the Magisterium has not felt the need to intervene in order to formulate a principle which was not attacked, or to defend a law which was not challenged. But each time that this tradition had the occasion to manifest itself, it witnessed to the Church’s desire to conform to the model left her by the Lord. The same tradition has been faithfully safeguarded by the Churches of the East. Their unanimity on this point is all the more remarkable since in many other questions their discipline admits of a great diversity. At present time these same Churches refuse to associate themselves with requests directed towards securing the accession of women to priestly ordination.” (Pope Paul VI, )
Well put, Keith. Thank you for those quotes. Among Eastern Catholics, we acknowledge some deaconesses who are Saints. But, a deaconess is not the same as a deacon. Their ordination rites are different. Ordination did not always mean to the major orders of Holy Order. Kings, queens, abbots and abbesses were “ordained” at times in history. That is, they were ordained by God for the office or service they were fulfilling.
Ah, Bishop Krautler, you know, and others know, that the Church is powerless to ordain women, at any of the “three” levels of ordination. Even Cardinal Muller, no conservative icon, very recently repeated that this teaching is authoritative and infallible. See the Cardinal’s September 30th statement to LifeSiteNews. What St. JPII said in “Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, ” (1994) reflects this dogma. No, the truth is that B. Krautler, and other commenters here, are playing the political game, going with what is popular versus what is ordained by God. Oh, the Pope might railroad through some changes but no true Catholic will abide with it. Christ chose only men as His priests and that is the way He wanted it.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19761015_inter-insigniores_en.html
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/ladaria-ferrer/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20180529_caratteredefinitivo-ordinatiosacerdotalis_en.html