The conferral of the Vatican’s Order of St. Gregory the Great to Dutch politician and pro-abortion activist Liliane Ploumen was part of an ordinary diplomatic exchange of honorific titles, and does not mean that the Vatican supports Ploumen’s abortion campaigns, a Vatican spokesperson explained Jan. 15.
Responding to requests of clarification, Paloma Garcia-Ovejero, deputy director of the Holy See Press Office, said that the decoration “cannot be by any way considered an endorsement to the pro-abortion and birth control politics advocated by Mrs. Ploumen.”
Liliane Ploumen, a Dutch politician, served as Dutch Minister for Foreign Trade and Development Cooperation from Nov. 5, 2012 to Oct. 26, 2017. In that capacity, she was part of a delegation of the Dutch monarchy that visited Pope Francis on June 22.
On that occasion, the Vatican returned the Dutch Royal Family a scepter belonging to William I, Prince of Orange, that had previously been lost in the Jesuit Catalan archives.
The visit of the King William Alexander and Queen Maxima was not an official state visit, but a mere audience, and so an exchange of honorifics would not ordinarily to take place. However, the presence of the royal family, and the solemnity of returning of the Dutch stick, might have suggested to the Secretariat of State a protocol designed to highlight the audience, including the conferral of honors, a Vatican source explained to CNA.
In some cases, the Vatican can ask not to proceed with an exchange of awards or honors, especially when some of the members of the other delegations can be controversial, a source close to the Vatican diplomatic service told CNA Jan. 15. However, the exchange of decorations took place during the Dutch visit.
The presence of Ploumen in the Dutch delegation has sparked controversies because she is an abortion advocate. However, news of her award did not grab any headlines until Ploumen herself showed off the medal in a recent interview to the Dutch television BNR.
In the interview, the Dutch politician presented the decoration as a personal award, and said that while her the pro-abortion campaign ““was not mentioned” as the reason for the decoration, but, she said, “the Vatican knows that I founded ‘She decides’, but this did not prevent them from awarding me.”
“It is interesting,” she added.
The honorific was apparently given without significant previous consultation. In a statement released Jan. 15, Cardinal Wilhelm Ejik, Archbishop of Utrecht and Primate of the Netherlands, stressed that he “was not involved” in the process that decided “to give the decoration of Commander of the Pontifical Equestrian Order St. Gregory the Great, which the former minister Ploumen received last year.”
Cardinal Ejik said that he had not initially been aware that the decoration had been given to the minister.
Established in 1831, the Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great is one of the five orders of knighthood of the Holy See, and can be bestowed to Catholic men and women, but also – in rare cases – to non Catholics. The honor is a recognition of personal service to the Holy See and to the Church.
Full story at Catholic News Agency.
This greatly disturbs me, as it greatly disturbed me some years ago when Fr. John Jenkins, CSC gave a law degree, H.C. to former President Barack Obama at the University of Notre Dame. Welcome these politicians? Absolutely. Give them a papal decoration while having full knowledge they are not only pro-abortion but also publicly legislate to further abortion on-demand? Absolutely NOT! There are other “keepsake” items, i.e. papal rosaries and struck medals, that would be far more appropriate than a papal decoration for those who persist in publicly promoting that which is a grave human rights crime against unborn children. I rarely speak out against a Pope, but he is the boss, and at some point he signed off on this decoration during…
Exceptionally well said. Now get the Pope to listen – not gonna happen. Our leaders will not listen to the rank and file.
Oh such nonsense! There is a pro-abort cabal worming itself into the fabric of the Francis pontificate, and it doesn’t end there. Many homosexualists are wrangling for recognition and seems now is their time too. Beyond scandalous, this is evil. It just keeps piling up.
How long, oh Lord? How long?
No wonder the LA Archbishop is “comfortable” pushing LGBQ agendas in his annual conference this year. He’s just following the lead of his boss, the Pope. Our Church is more than tone deaf…..it has lost its mind and moral compass. Now we can understand why pro-choice DemocRAT Catholic politicians feel free to be so vocal in upholding Planned Parenthood and homosexual marriage, inter alia. So sad………………
Actions speak louder than words.
Alabyes, alabyes, alabyes; but what personal services did this anti-catholic doctrine believer and activist render to Bergoligio?
He is the boss of the V2 Church Father, but not of the cloth of St Peter.
Will Cardinal Ejik ask for the “award” to be given back?
How sad, how pathetic of an excuse, to say that these Papal awards are not vetted before being given!!!!!
That excuse might have been believable if this were the only example of Jorge Bergoglio’s regime doing something questionable. But this is at least the twentieth dubious thing. Who believes the lies anymore?
Remember, the Universal Church has had its “scoundrels” since inception. However, the level of the virtue of the minister does not dictate the amount of Sanctifying Grace when he administers the Sacraments.
lou, there won’t be anyone left to give sacraments to if the scoundrels keep chewing through the hull of peter’s bark. mrs ploumen not only indicated that she was shocked but commented that she felt some signaling through the gesture, a signaling of affirmation of her message.
Not true. The Church, established by Jesus Himself, was given the promise of Divine Assistance. Matt. Ch 12. “I will be with you to the end of time. The gates of hell will not prevail.” The current activities of a few within the Church does not invalidate Our Lord’s promise he made to Peter.
i was referring to the depopulation through abortion currently going on. i have the faith you also have about mt 12. but i notice the sheer numbers of people in italy are dropping. the boat won’t sink, it will just have fewer passengers
Correction to my previous reply. Appropriate citation is Matt. Ch 16, ver. 12 et. seq.
Credibility is everything in any organization. Simply saying something but not having the conviction to follow though with action only leaves hollow words and empty promises. I’m distressed but not at all surprised by this action and I do not believe that this award was either given by accident or simply a matter of diplomatic procedure. As a priest, how can I expect the people I preach before and teach to follow the example of a church leadership that does not follow it’s own admonitions of being pro-life and pro-family? All too often these past few years, the actions of the Vatican need ‘further clarification’ afterward. This trend is distressing.
google some and you see that this same medal was given out in the US over the last few years for lifetime major achievement in pro-life and family work of a high level. this conferral on ploumen trivializes and diminishes the honor for the cause. cardinal hummes is alleged to have been the one who reported the pope’s words on the loggia after election when he pushed away assistants trying to fit special vestments for the appearance over the square, something like,’no, the carnaval’s over(later hummes denied he had said that, but it’s not likely a stage-handler would have made that up for the inquisitive press). papal rebranding by accenture is worthless if they trash the crown jewels.
Fr Mark, What further clarification is needed? If these articles are written by good investigative reporters what more is needed? Our Lord said you will know them (implying Francis in my message) by their fruits.
Lou, Yes, there are upwards of 40 anti-popes in RC Church history as declared by the Church. It happened back near the middle ages, and it’s been happening as of late as well.
It has come to this………………………..Lewis Carrol himself is blushing:
“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’
’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”
For those unhappy about this incident and the 20 or so other diabolical incidents approved by Bergolio. Pray to Jesus and Mary to lead you to the path they want you to take. Don’t be surprised if you’re led to a Roman Catholic Church that practices traditional Sacraments said in latin like the TLM. For it was instituted by Christ and has Christ’s promise He will be with His Church until the end of time.
There are places that call themselves the Roman Catholic Church that aren’t. Lots of them. Only attend Latin Masses that are approved by a Catholic diocese. Don’t be fooled because someone calls himself a bishop (or even a Pope.)
You don’t have to attend a “Roman” Catholic Church to receive legitimate and licit Sacraments. The Eastern Catholic Rites (Byzantine, Chaldean, Maronite, Syro-Malobar, etc.) are just as Catholic and most likely more traditional than the Roman Rite will ever be.
Reminds me of the chap whose wife, finding a charge for jewelry or . . . lingerie, suspects an affair. He of course denies it, saying the woman is just a “friend.” In the meantime the “friend” is telling everyone about her new lover. Finally he comes clean but says it meant nothing, nothing at all, just “an exchange of honorifics.”
“I didn’t really want to crucify Jesus Christ;
but it was a matter of protocol.”
Pontius Pilate
Remember this, the Roman Catholic Church is not the current Vatican and its residents. The Roman Catholic Church is the Doctrine taught by Christ Himself and revealed by the Holy Ghost, Sacraments instituted by Christ Himself, Faith given to us by God the Father, and history backed by the Blessed Trinity, all the Saints, and all of the Angels.
No. That is heresy.
Read the Catechism of Trent.
The Church has but one ruler and one governor, the invisible one, Christ, whom the eternal Father hath made head over all the Church, which is his body; the visible one, the Pope, who, as legitimate successor of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, fills the Apostolic chair.
It is the unanimous teaching of the Fathers that this visible head is necessary to establish and preserve unity in the Church.
Ephesian 4:1-6
I, then, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love, striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
A Vatican spokesman said that this was merely an “exchange of honorific titles.” Pray tell, what title did (or could) Miss Plouman and the Dutch monarchy, in exchange, confer upon the Supreme Pontiff?
Maybe this was a Secret Santa/Kris Kringle thing — or, as they call it in Los Angeles, an Amigo Secreto — and the Vatican had the misfortune of drawing Miss Liliane Plouman’s name. It could happen, ya know.
Anomynous, As your being a devoted liberal V2 member, I am impressed you have heard of The Catechism of the Council of Trent. It is the quintessential written source of Roman Catholic Dogma, and as you may not agree doesn’t compare well with the modern V2 catechism. I hope you do read it. As learned as you are of RCC history there have been at least one time less than all the numbers of valid popes when the Chair of St Peter was vacant, i.e., sedevacante. So the fact exists the RCC still can prevail without a Pontiff, just as Saints have written. So explain and source of heresy!
You are correct that the Church does not cease if a Pope dies or resigns. Why are you making this complicated? Those bishops and chapels which are not in communion with the Pope are not in any way part of the Catholic Church. If your Church was not established by the local Diocese it is not a Catholic Church. There are over 450 Churches that claim to be the Catholic Church or “in the tradition of the Catholic Church. These are schismatic and its members are in mortal sin.
Anomynous, A true pope is infallible in RCC Faith anf Morals, so Please explain how the V2 leaders have changed the Church so much over the last 50 years that our great-grandparents wouldn’t recognize it as Catholic (more like Lutheran) and like other conservative Catholics blogging here aghast of the heretical decisions and changes over the last 50+ years that has driven 100s of millions of would-a-been Catholics from the faith.
Things have changed but not Faith or Morals. Some have tried to change them but the Popes have held firm. It is wrong to think that nothing can change because the Catholic Church has changed throughout its history. Would the Apostles have recognized the Church of 1950s America?
Doug, I know your concerns. I have your concerns. I know you think I’m liberal but I’m not. I wish the Church had not changed. I looked at a lot of traditionalist chapels, priests and bishops. I do not want to name them. They were, with no exceptions, deficient and deceptive. Perhaps they themselves are confused and misled so they mislead others. I don’t want to write their errors but you have to really believe in God and you have to set aside anxiety. Whatever happens in the barque of Peter, as long as you are in the barque you will be alright. Satan is active, very active and he knows how to tempt each soul where they are vulnerable. You have to have faith, not just in doctrine or the Sacraments but in the whole entire…
People leave the Church because of their lack of faith. And their lack of humility. They think they know better than the Church. They don’t really believe that Christ is the head of the Church and that nothing happens in the Church or the world that he does not permit. He has permitted some people to fall into apostasy, some into heresy and some into schism. He has permitted some who are not faithful to remain in the Church. Ours is not to question why. We need to believe, adore, hope and love Him in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which is the Catholic Church that is headed by the Pope in the Dioceses headed by the Bishops in union with the Pope.
anonymous of jan 21st 12 pm, i notice that when the heresy and schisms do surface, this same Christ also raises holy objectors who oppose heresies and in the work of apologetics sharpen insight into the truths being blurred or ignored. the new slips from doctrine help a new generation sharpen their insight into the faith and the mystery revealed. He permits active, agressive response and defense.
Thank you. That is a good insight.
Anomynous, Yes I think the Apostles would recognize the RCC in America in the 1950s, because other than the beautiful and artistic, material matter supporting the Church i.e., buildings, vestments, statues, and beaurocratic Vatican offices, the Church instituted by Christ, the Dogma, 7 Holy Sacraments, reverence, and other traditional practices still existed in America in the 1950s.
Anomynous, Thats right they’ve left on a lack of faith, all the changes and scandals since V2
But they are still in a state of grave sin, even mortal sin
Then they take communion (which is probably valid but how do you know?) in grave or mortal sin.
They can’t make a valid confession (SSPX recently excepted through the mercy of God and Pope Francis) because the priests don’t have faculties from the local ordinary.
It’s a mess. It should not be promoted or excused. They should be prayed for.
And some of them left because they wanted women to be ordained or they wanted gays to be able to marry or they wanted to hear that their abortion and birth control use was fine. Or they remarried after a divorce and could take communion at a different Church.
That’s shifting the blame. No one is responsible for your choices but you.
Temptations come in all forms. They do not justify the sin.
Anomynous, The enormous loss in fallen away Catholic souls is on account of a loss in graces dispensed. These graces as you know come predominantly from the 7 Holy Sacraments. All 7 Holy Sacraments were changed beginning with Holy Orders not only just a simple change of the latin words translated into the vernacular but also the prayers were changed and many deleted. Just the facts man.
How could that be true? Do you think God is dependent on humans?
Sacraments are not magic spells where you have to do the incantation just right.
There is superabundant grace in every sacrament. People do not conform to the graces. The Sacraments of the Catholic Church are not deficient in any way. Certainly the Sacraments in a schismatic chapel are not superior to them because except for Baptism they are devoid of all graces which come through the Church.
Some of them are not even valid. Others may be valid but they are illicit. Your ministers are in mortal sin. Please read the Catechism of Trent and conform to everything in it. Pray the rosary and pray the exorcism prayer to St. Michael and the prayer to St. Joseph (To thee O blessed Joseph we have recourse in our affliction…)
Anomynous, Yes your 22 Jan, 1128 am comment is partially to blame too, but now look of late of the hierarchy’s reponse to those wrongful things: easing up on getting divorces/granting annulements at the local level, awarding pro-abortion politicians and letting them receive a host, putting climate change and other nonsensical issues before abortion resistance, shielding pedophile ministers, and breaking the 1st Commandment at Asissi and many other places in the spirit of false ecumenism.
I share your concern but there is no where else to go. No where else is the Catholic Church. The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church established by Jesus Christ Himself is the Church united with the Pope..
I know where He resides. I will not leave Him even if every other Catholic does wrong things. I expect other Catholics not to leave Him if I err.
Jesus said that there would be scandals but woe to those from whom scandals come.
I will pray for you to Mary, Help of Christians. Do not tempt others. Do not lay a stumbling block in front of others.
By the way Anomynous, Try reading the book “How Christ said the First Mass “. You will learn alot out of its 400 pages of insightful detail. It’s author is Father James Meagher and was written at the turn of the last century i.e., 1900 AD.
I looked up the book on archive. I clicked on page 411 and I was confirmed in what I am trying to tell.
“Whoever receives the one I send, receives Me.”
Thank you Jesus. Please save us all.
And our Lord also said: ‘You will know them by their fruit’, and ‘Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing ‘.
That’s exactly what I’m trying to tell you.
Anomy, Just don’t browse through documents (in this case Fr Meagher’s book ‘How Christ said the First Mass ‘) hoping to find some sentence out of context to support your viewpoint. I recommend that you read it cover to cover, like I have, to learn something from the book, and a whole lot too. Try doing that with the Catechism of the Council of Trent, word for word, cover to cover, otherwise you are missing out like most regular modernists. I will pray you do God’s Holy Will.
It’s not my viewpoint. It is the Catholic Faith.
The Catholic Faith includes belief that the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is the Church established by Christ through the Apostles. No independent “Catholic” chapel or church is part of it. No independent chapel has 7 Sacraments. It is not possible. No independent chapel is the true Church preserving the Faith. It is not possible. These things are mutually exclusive. If it looks, sounds, smells like a Catholic Church, it isn’t. There are many many errors that are taught at these places. You cannot separate from the Catholic Church and be in a state of grace.
Anomynous, How do you explain the similar circumstances in the Church regarding the 40 + anti-popes hundreds of years ago? Were the clergy and laity to follow them or was it correct to turn their heads, ignore the heretical and disturbing acts and blindly follow and obey the anti-popes? Who was right? Who was wrong?
No you don’t follow anti-popes. Those who follow anti-popes are wrong. They are schismatics. They are in mortal sin.
You always follow the duly elected Pope. Always.
Anti-popes are not duly elected popes. They are people who are not Pope who claim to be Pope. Some sedevacantists have declared themselves Pope. I hope you do not follow them.
The Popes since Vatican II have really been the Pope. Even if you don’t like the Church or the Council or the Popes, they are still the Pope.
Anomynous, You have an enoormously negative opinion. Can you give some sources here to substantiate your claims. From what I gather homosexuals like yourself are trying to change the church from within. They are trying to be accepted when God according to St Paul in Romans Chapter shows God is offended by LGBT deeds.
Source: The most accurate English translation of the Roman Catholic Holy Bible, the Douay -Rheims Holy Bible.
There is more than one anonymous person here and since I am not homosexual nor trying to change the Church, perhaps it is not I whom you are addressing. But in case it is, what do you want sourced?
So Anomynous, If Francis tells you it is now permissible for you to do something very wrong, against Church teaching, like something heretical, I see for you that means you would obey and follow him, no matter how offended God might be.
Good luck with that! If you did some research you would find there are multiple different reasons in history for anti-popes. Sadly, during those anti-popes individual reigns, you can bet not all saw the truth and defended the anti-popes. They just couldn’t connect the dots and blindly obeyed and followed the anti-popes just like the mice following the pied piper without concerns.
No actually I don’t drink, smoke or gamble even though the Catholic Church says that is permissible. Why would I do something very wrong?
But you bring up a point and it’s a situation I went through at one time. It’s about following your conscience. I can’t tell you it’s ok to go to an independent chapel or church. I can just strongly encourage you to find a licit Mass that you can go to.
I just don’t want to spread the errors of the sedevacantists by discussing those with you. I can tell by your posts that your head has been messed with. They manipulate history and church law and teaching to justify themselves. I pray for their conversion.
There are anti-popes now. Don’t follow them.
Don’t follow “bishops” or priests who tell you there is no pope.
And don’t follow priests who tell you that you only have to obey the Pope in what you agree with.
Don’t follow priests who are excommunicated.
Here is what you are doing
“I don’t like that the Pope said we could use Natural Family planning so I’m going to have an abortion.”
What you are doing is death to the soul.
Schism is mortal sin.
“I don’t want to pray the Mass in English and I don’t like the things they removed from the Mass so I’m going to go to an illicit Mass at a non-Catholic Church.”
I will pray to Our Lady for you.
Thanks Anomynous for prayers to Our Lady that lead to my sanctification. I will pray the same for all fallen-away and misled catholics, protestants, and pagans. It takes God’s grace to connect the dots and see His truth.
Peace
Doug, God bless you. I know you are sincere. May Our Lady, Star of the Sea, guide you to a safe haven. .