The following comes from an early November posting on Rorarte Caeli blog site.
Dear Father,
This letter is a long time in coming. I want to know what has happened to the Catholic understanding of death. On All Souls Day our priest wore white vestments and talked about how all the dead we pray for on this day are already in heaven. And he called us all a “resurrected people”. This is similar to what I see and hear at almost every Catholic funeral Mass I go to. I thought we were supposed to pray for the dead who are in Purgatory to speed them on their way to heaven. But if everyone goes to heaven as soon as he dies, what does all this mean?
Faithfully,
Beleaguered in Biloxi.
***
Dear Beleaguered in Biloxi,
Thank you for your letter and your concern about the confusion about the Catholic teaching about death. What you have experienced is part of the effect of secular sentimentality on Church practice.
It is true that most Catholic funerals are quasi-canonizations of the person who lies in the coffin at the Funeral Mass. I once participated in the Funeral Mass of a woman whom I knew to be a woman of simple and deep faith. The bishop who presided at this Mass said in his homily that he was sure that she was now looking down on all of us from heaven and that she was dancing a jig. At another funeral a priest said to the husband of the deceased: “You may now pray to your wife as a saint”.
I am sure that you have heard similar sentiments from priests at Funeral Masses. And when these things are said, and they are said often, the people laugh. Not raucous laughter, but nervous and polite laughter, nervous and polite because no one believes these silly sentiments. Some think to themselves: “Poor Father. He has no clue about the reality of death, how much in so many cases death really hurts, is agony, and how this breaks the hearts of those who watch this person die. Let Father go on talking in this sentimental way. And let them go on singing: ‘And I will raaaiiise him up! And I will raaiiise him up!’ We will sing this song that is not of Zion, and go on with our lives and try to figure out what this death of my father or mother or sister or brother or friend means in the context of my faith, what this means and how I can confront this with real meaning and not sappy sentimentality masquerading as faith; what this means in the context of the crucifixion of God incarnate and “I am the Resurrection and the Life” and “Blessed are those who have not seen and believe.” Only here deep in my faith will I find where sense and comfort lie confronting this mystery.”
Dear Beleaguered, a religion that does not take death seriously should never itself be taken seriously.
A religion that does not take Kafka’s words, “He died like a dog” as a real alternative to “He who believes in me shall not die…and I will raise him up at the Last Day” should be abandoned. It is as if the pure stream of the Catholic faith has been polluted by the dumping into its waters the slag of the sentimentality of the world that avoids the reality of death and denies that that slag is indeed a poison, a poison so powerful that it kills the fish that live in these waters.
That great Catholic author and fierce opponent of sentimentality in religion, Flannery O’Connor, says in her collection of essays called Mystery and Manners:
“One of the tendencies of our age is to use the suffering of children to discredit the goodness of God, and once you have discredited his goodness, you are done with him. … Ivan Karamazov cannot believe, as long as one child is in torment; Camus’ hero cannot accept the divinity of Christ, because of the massacre of the innocents. In this popular pity, we mark our gain in sensibility and our loss in vision. If other ages felt less, they saw more, even though they saw more, even though they saw with the blind, prophetical, unsentimental eye of acceptance, which is to say, of faith. In the absence of this faith now, we govern by tenderness. It is tenderness which, long since cut off from the person of Christ, is wrapped in theory. When tenderness is detached from the source of tenderness, its logical outcome is terror. It ends in forced-labor camps and in the fumes of the gas chamber.”
Tough words, but true. Would that she were alive now and could address the next Synod on the Family! When tenderness is detached from its source of tenderness, namely the reality of the person of Jesus Christ, its logical outcome is the abolition of justice in the name of mercy. What is this tenderness except the substitution of the mercy of God by sentimentality? This is the tenderness that deliberately forgets about the justice of God—and death—and pretends that, in general, mercy has eliminated justice.
It is no accident that in the Novus Ordo Mass of Christian Burial the Sequence hymn Dies Irae found in the Traditional Mass was suppressed. This omission was based on the grounds that such a hymn with its “doom and gloom”—through the eyes of the “reformers”—and with its strong reference to judgment and fear should not be part of the expression of faith of those who believe in the promise of the Resurrection of Christ. But it is precisely the Dies Irae that is the antidote to that sentimentality that dissolves the ultimate importance and mystery of death. This hymn is the supreme prayer for the mercy of God in the face of the justice of God, in the face of my own sinfulness.
The teaching of the Church is clear. When a Catholic dies his soul is immediately judged: to the immediate joys of heaven, for the saints, or to a place of purification of sins that leads to heaven, for most of those who are saved — or to hell for eternity. And the Church teaches that the offering of the Sacrifice of the Mass for those in purgatory helps them, by the Cross of Christ, to reach heaven ever more speedily albeit in a way we cannot know. And finally, that we will all rise at the Last Day with our bodies to stand before the Final Judgment.
I offer you two pieces of advice. When you are at a funeral Mass where silly talk and song are going on, tune out and pray for the person who has died. And to make sure that no one will say silly things at your funeral, include in your will a request that your funeral Mass be in the Traditional Roman Rite. That is a guarantee: not of heaven, but at least a sober sense of reality that is the basis of our “sure hope.”
To read the original story, click here.
Purgatory? What’s that?
Even my 8th grader students knew about this, though the parish priest insists we are in a direct pipeline to heaven.
Give your Parish Priest a copy of the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” so he can learn the Faith.
I had a Scout that had just made his First Communion, but he knew nothing about Purgatory, so I taught him, it took me about 5 minutes to explain it to him so that he understood it!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Kenneth M. Fisher
What is sad about this erroneous positon, the deception by the conciliar clergy of the deceased’s soul to family and friends. If this were truly the case, what need would there be of purgatory? Apparently the concept that a person’s soul nolonger needs to be pure to get into heaven, or that no one offends God with their sins no more. Could it be that conciliar church members think that murder and theft are the only sins anymore? When according to statistics 75% of the members don’t go to weekend services weekly thereby breaking God’s commandment, many use God’s name in vain without even noticing thereby breaking God’s commandment, many have had abortions thereby breaking God’s commandment, some have stolen by cheating have broken God’s commandment, nearly half have divorced and many of them remarried breaking God’s commandment, well it gets alittle hard to believe every conciliar member that died has gone straight to heaven! After all it was Jesus who said “Many are called and few are chosen”, and Our Lady who said “Many will go to hell for the sins of impurity” which runs ripe for our times.
What are the consequences of these protestant initiated deceptions? There are at least two: 1) No one to bother to pray for the deceased’s soul, and 2) Those on living in the state of sin on earth here thinking no fear of going to purgatory or even hell so the sinners just keep on sinning.
At my funeral, I don’t want a eulogy. Please use that time and effort to pray for the repose of my soul. It will probably be the last time that so many people will pray for me and lessen my time in Purgatory.
And don’t forget the Gregorian Masses.
Sarah,
Actually in the real Catholic Church, Eulogies are forbidden during funerals!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Kenneth M. Fisher
Kenneth Fisher,
Are you stating that only the EF Mass is legitimate?
People like you (and I don’t care what good you may have done years ago), are going to spoil everything for the rest of us.
It is fine to encourage others to attend the EF Mass; it is wrong for you to disparage the OF Mass.
Pope Benedict warned everyone, and you REFUSE to listen, and REFUSE to Obey — NO DISCORD.
SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM
https://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificum_en.html
Article 5 #1 – “He should ensure that the good of these members of the faithful is harmonized with the ordinary pastoral care of the parish,
under the governance of the bishop in accordance with Canon 392, AVOIDING DISCORD and FAVOURING the UNITY of the whole Church”.
Do not supply fuel to Bishops who wish to do away with the EF Mass.
Sadie, I believe you may have read too much into Mr. Fisher’s comments. Unfortunately, I’ve planned too many funerals lately, so I can tell you that eulogies are not permitted in “OF” funeral masses either.
” real Catholic Church” – this is the offending phrase.
While I understand your concern, Sadie, the notion of kowtowing in order to not upset the Bishops who would otherwise behave even worse than they do now is somehow disingenuous.
The message seems to be, “Keep what truth and fruit you have learned comes from the TLM under your hat” so as not to tick of the wrong people. So with regard to REFUSING to listen and REFUSING to obey, word is many Bishops are doing exactly that anyway. The ruse of ‘just stay quiet so you don’t ruin it for the rest of us’ is rather selfish and completely OUTDATED in the present climate. Because while there are those enjoying the bountiful fruits of tradition, there are others literally starving and/or being misled into believing they’re getting the real thing.
Kind of like getting up in the middle of the night for an extra bowl of cereal, but wanting to keep it mum so that too many others won’t follow suit and then nobody will get extra cereal. But Catholic patrimony, the full monte, is the right of every Catholic. This mincing around and then finger wagging at those who, shame on them, speak openly about what they have experienced, learned, and desire to pass on to not only their children but all children WILL NOT WORK.
The why being, the Bishops who would otherwise not be inclined to open the way to Tradition are smart cookies.
Ann Malley your statement is false, and you are making false assumptions. Go back and read the posts.
All Masses should follow the rubrics for that Form of Mass.
No one should bad mouth any approved form of the Mass. This only causes DISCORD (arguments) and DISUNITY.
When the Rubrics are not followed for any Form of the Mass, the Priest must be corrected, and if necessary his Bishop must be contacted.
If you wish to encourage people to attend a specific Form of the Mass, that is OK.
If you bad mouth another approved Form of the Mass in the process, you need to confess this.
If you intentionally misinterpret and or go off the handle accusing others, you need to confess that, Sadie. That said, your assertions of what is false are unfounded. (IOW: Your ‘people likey you’ comment IS highly offensive and inflammatory.
As for ‘ruining it for the rest of us’ you seem to want to have the benefit of something better, but without sharing the why behind it. If you truly hold that all forms are the same and benefit the faithful in the same manner, there would be no ‘ruining’ anything.
It would also seem that your uncharitable posts to Mr. Fisher and others revolves around personal likes and dislikes as if that is the sole basis for seeking the TLM. If that is your motivation, then I pray you develop a more in depth appreciation for the treasures of Holy Mother Church. If your motivation runs deeper, which I hope it does, I pray you gain the strength to dialog with those who share your understanding in a more Christ-like manner. For you seem to want to make enemies out of those who are in the best position to be your ally. But then that is part and parcel of a gag order.
But even if all were silent, the disparity of visible fruits is what will speak to DISCORD (arguments) and DISUNITY. For if we silence those who follow Christ, bidding them be silent so as not to cause discord and disunity, even the rocks will cry out.
So look to your own tone and manner for discord and disunity, for you are acting in precisely the manner that denies the obvious. And for fear of having you candy taken away.
Ann Malley, Tradition with a capital T generally means that part of the eternal revelation received from Christ and handed on to his Apostles. The externals of the TLM are not a part of that Tradition. The externals of the TLM are a part of a tradition, much of which dates to the period post Trent in the 16th century. It is important to not confuse the faithful to believing that the TLM is part of the Apostolic Tradition.
Schism is a grave sin; mortal if done with full knowledge and consent of the will. Those who knowingly commit schism are cut off from the Mystical Body of Christ. They are not allies to the faithful; they are poison. Those who attend and love the “TLM” may be vulnerable to their errors if they do not know the true teachings of the Catholic Church. All Schismatics and heretics believe they are correct (of course) and believe they are doing a work of mercy in convincing others that they are correct. Such is the nature of the beast. One should avoid all contact with them. This website is a dangerous environment for those who do not know the True Faith.
YFC, it is also important not to confuse the faithful into believing that there is not a vast wealth of fruits to be had with the TLM. Thank you again for your exposition of T vs t. It is good to know that on some level you are devoted to not promoting confusion.
Yes, those who attend the TLM should know the ‘true’ teachings of the Catholic Church just like those who attend the NO. That is why Catholics need to seek those teachings and often do their own readingresearch. And that is why increasing numbers of those who do know the true teachings of the Church seek out the TLM.
Thank you again, mous, for pointing out the danger of schism and not knowing the Faith.
Sadie, Mr. Fisher attends and ushers at an independent chapel that is not in union with the Catholic Church. They consider themselves the True Faith. Your instinct was right, but they do not jeopardize the Extraordinary Form in the Catholic Church.
YFC, thanks for standing up for Mr. Fisher but Sadie noticed something odd and was correct.
Thank you for posting this – if we are told that everyone has just flown to Heaven, why should we pray for the Poor Souls? Thank goodness for the Traditional Latin Mass, where there is the appropriate black, and the Dies Irae is still sung.
CCC, paragraphs 1030-1032: “All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned…From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead…”
SACRED SCRIPTURE (Catholic Bible) is the “WORD of GOD” (CCC #135).
The “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” (of 1997) contains the “DOCTRINE of the FAITH”. (CCC page 5)
So why isn’t every Diocese Bishop (and their Priests) throughout the world, actively and prominently encouraging all the literate age 15 and over within their Diocese to read these AT HOME ?
Why isn’t reading of Sacred Scripture and the CCC in entirety a condition of employment at the USCCB, State Bishops’ Conferences, Diocese Offices and all Diocese Parishes, Diocese Catholic Schools, etc. ?
Why isn’t reading both in ENTIRETY a requirement at every Seminary and Convent novitiate ?
These are all within control of each Diocese Bishop.
” My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge;
because you have rejected knowledge,
I reject you from being a priest to me.
And since you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children. ” – Hosea 4:6
ONLY JESUS can determine / judge the disposition of each individual Soul at death:
HEAVEN, purification/cleansing fire in PURGATORY, or HELL.
We are required to Love God above all; and Jesus (God) said if you love me you will keep my Commandments.
Bishops and their Priests on average have quit teaching ALL the truths of our Faith – including on the last 4 things of Death, Judgment, Heaven, Hell.
Many Bishops must think they know more than Jesus who taught about death, judgment, Heaven, and Hell.
It is a sin to PRESUME.
CCC: ” 2092 There are two kinds of presumption.
Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high),
or he presumes upon God’s almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit). “
Why do you think so many are leaving the Faith, and so many Churches and Schools are closing ?
Why do you think there is a Synod on what to do about adultery with remarriage, fornication, and sodomy ?
Because by their defacto lack of teaching ALL of the Faith to everyone within their Diocese including about judgment, heaven and hell – people lack truth or presume that there are NO CONSEQUENCES to their actions and their inactions.
Lack of complete teaching (including the reasons why the Church teaches what it teaches) – causes RELATIVISM, and encourages Secularism.
When are Bishops (and their Priests) going to learn this ?
A Bishop’s primary job is to teach fully and accurately everyone within his own Diocese (CCC 888).
NOT to be a social worker or political activist.
This teaching responsibility was handed down from Christ to His Apostles to today’s Bishops (and their Priests).
If one was honest, how do you think Jesus might judge most of today’s Bishops regarding their teaching – most important responsibility ? ? ?
This should be a big part of the examination of conscience of every Bishop (and every Priest.)
Today, the Consecration of a Bishop is considered more a promotion than a Higher Calling!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Kenneth M. Fisher
This lack of teaching the Faithful is why so many do NOT pray for those in Purgatory.
CCC: ” 1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.
The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come. “
CCC: ” 1022 Each man receives his eternal RETRIBUTION in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death,
in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven – through a purification, or immediately,
— or immediate and everlasting damnation.”
With the exception of ONE flower arrangement from my children, I have asked that everyone who wishes to remember me – in LIEU of FLOWERS that they have a Mass said for my Soul at their nearest Catholic Church.
(A donation runs about $15 per Mass.)
I read the obits everyday and I pray for those souls, especially for the people who have their, “celebration of life’ in a park, bar, country club or hall. So many seem to have interesting lives and do charitable things, but there is no mention of faith or church relationship. I hope they all say yes to Our Lord in the moments before judgement. Being so completely loved by the Lord and then never returning the love in acknowledgment, must weigh heavy on the soul once the Truth is revealed. Praise the Lord for purgatory for all our less than stellar lives. I just went to a “celebration of life for a 17” year old who was raised without Truth, but guided by the golden rule. I kept thinking these poor parents their son will never come home again. What great sorrow there must be in Heaven as beloved children reject their faith!
Also because of the NEGLECT of teaching by many Diocese Bishops and their Priests, many people no longer try to gain Indulgences for themselves or for the deceased.
CCC: ” 1471 The doctrine and practice of indulgences in the Church are closely linked to the effects of the sacrament of Penance.
What is an indulgence?
“An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints.
An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part
or all of the temporal punishment due to sin.
The faithful can gain indulgences for themselves or apply them to the dead. ”
CCC: ” 1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture:
Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.
From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:
Let us help and commemorate them.
If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation?
Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them. ”
“MANUAL of INDULGENCES” approved by the Apostolic Penitentiary and published by the USCCB.
https://www.usccbpublishing.org/productdetails.cfm?PC=705
Since Vatican II, the emphasis at funeral Masses is on the Resurrection. The Church basically stresses that once someone has died, that person is soon in Heaven. The notions of Purgatory and Hell are seldom mentioned. The word SOUL is absent in most of the Novus Ordo prayers, and some of the prayers are more oriented towards the mourners than the dead person. White vestments have replaced the black ones, and the Mass seems to be a celebration of the person’s life instead of asking God to show His mercy on the soul of the deceased. Eulogies are quite banal and crude to say the least, and they are given in the church, sometimes during Mass, and often by people who are not Catholic. Balloons and pictures and other secular trivia are decorated around the casket. The hymns are awful, especially Amazing Grace which presumes that ALL ARE SAVED once they have found religion. Often totally secular hymns are sung which are more suited as bar or cocktail lounge music. Instead of having Masses offered for the deceased, flowers and other decorations are encouraged. From what I have learned, instead of focusing on Christ’s redemption, the emphasis is now on the Paschal Mysteries, which stresses the Resurrection, and hence the resurrected Christ replacing crucifixes. This is the tragedy: millions of souls have NO one to pray for them, since almost everyone considers the dead to be in Paradise. The Requiem Mass was very dignified and uplifting, and it stressed Catholic truths. The Mass of the Resurrection does away with tradition and the tone of it is more like a going away party or a retirement affair.
In the ORDINARY FORM of the MASS, did you know that with pre-planning you can pick many of the Liturgical prayers for your own Funeral ?
There is a booklet you can purchase called:
“Through Death to Life” by Joseph M. Champlin that contains all the choices you can make.
Yes, it has a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur.
You can also pick the 4 pieces of appropriate music: one for the Entrance (opening), the Offertory (gifts), Communion, and then the Recessional.
(For example, I have chosen: Ave Maria, Panis Angelicus, Pie Jesu, and You’ll Never Walk Alone in that order.)
You can use your Funeral to teach others (including non-Catholics), as well as the critical PRAYERS needed for your OWN SOUL.
Pie Jesu and You’ll Never Walk Alone are not appropriate hymns for a funeral or any other liturgical use in a Mass. Pie Jesu is a secular song from a Broadway musical, and You’ll Never Walk Alone is a popular song. Our priests are not educated (neither are most bishops) in what is appropriate for the liturgy although over the years Rome has issued many documents on the necessity of using truly sacred and appropriate music at all Masses. The American bishops take their cues from music publishers instead of really paying attention to Rome. In the Latin Mass we don’t encounter such problems. I think that is why the Extraordinary Form is becoming more popular especially with younger folk who are tired of the songs used at most English Masses. Go to cc.watershed and find out what is REALLY required.
It does not matter. This is what I have chosen because my family is not Catholic and because it is permitted. And as people pray for me, I intend to pray for the conversion of Non-Catholics and those who have fallen away.
I attend EF Masses frequently and they would not bring by family closer to the Faith – because they would not have a clue what is happening.
Mike,
Balloney, all they need is a missal, and many, if not all, Traditional parishes even have loaners, and they can follow the Mass from start to finish.
Please at least try to come up with a better excuse than that worn out one.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Kenneth M. Fisher
Fisher – Flipping back and forth in a missal trying to find the right place when one is completely unfamiliar with a missal and in an unknown language
rather than paying attention to the words (prayers of the Mass – will not convert anyone.
Remember non-Catholics do not understand the organization of a Missal.
You need to pray for people rather than criticize all the time.
No, MATT, flipping through the missal will not convert anyone. But experiencing the richness and allowing grace to work DOES. I’ve experienced the conversion of non-Catholics by just such methods.
That said, do we need to start calling you ‘T’ (for lack of a last name) because you want to start calling someone ‘Fisher’ to further underscore your baseless argument?
Oddly enough, it was the TLM that actually did bring my family closer to actual Faith, MIke. My fear (and it was huge) that my family would not understand or be turned off by a High Mass, something I went forward with anyway, grieving the entire time about how ‘this’ would mess things up, resulted in my husband’s declaration that, “I won’t to to any other mass on Sunday, but that one!” The ‘why’ was because again, in his words, “There is something different in there,” said pointing toward the warehouse where the high mass had been held for want of a proper chapel. (And yet when it was announced that there was going to be high mass, I freaked out thinking it would be ‘too Catholic’ and would therefore undo what I had convinced myself that ‘I had done’ to lead my family to the Faith. God does have a sense of humor, for He let me have it that day.)
The having a clue about what was happening was so immaterial. Rather it was the experience of something greater than oneself and one’s small understanding that opened up my family to want to learn, to grow, and to believe. The fullness of that which is Catholic, complete with outward symbols and solemnity, a hard-hitting sermon, and the reverence displayed by those in attendance speak volumes to the soul.
God bless, Mike, and prayers for the conversion of your family!
Ann Malley, my NON-CATHOLIC family would have no clue what is going on in the EF Mass at all.
And they would not know how to flip back and forth in the Missal pages to follow as needed, and adding a language that they do not understand.
For many a Catholic wedding or funeral is the only time they have ever set foot in a Catholic Church, and its 100% new.
When said properly, both the OF and EF Mass are Holy.
Sadie, you completely missed my point. But that’s okay. While you are focusing intently on words, words, words, others are *experiencing* the richness of Catholic tradition that speaks volumes without understanding a single line – yes, without a missal! You are also forgetting that YOU are fully capable of explaining before, during or after the beauty of the mass to your NON-CATHOLIC relatives.
But perhaps you are one of those who cannot enjoy Opera either because instead of focusing on the very visible intention and passion of the singers, you are too busy reading the translation. THAT is what leads people away from getting the real point.
Your assertion with regard to what constitutes ‘holy’ at the end of your post seems to be your real issue.
That said, conversion goes so far beyond words that believing one must understand every aspect of the mass so that they will want to join is ridiculous. Putting everything on such a human level negates the workings of grace and the reality that hordes of people converted to the Faith, loved the Faith, some died for the Faith with only the basest rudimentary comprehension of the words, words, words.
Beauty and majesty convey far more than you give them credit for, Sadie. It’s too bad you think so little of your relatives ability to comprehend them.
Thanks for sharing Ann. As long as there’s life there’s hope. The niece I told you about is really doing so much better! Her daughter, who became a Catholic several years ago thanks to Mother Angelica is being really supportive of her Mom, and some real good is coming out of this suffering. Thank you and all who have been praying for her.
PS. This is the hymn I’ve always intended for my funeral. Read the lyrics, based on the Apostles Creed…
The Church’s one foundation
Is Jesus Christ her Lord,
She is His new creation
By water and the Word.
From heaven He came and sought her
To be His holy bride;
With His own blood He bought her
And for her life He died.
She is from every nation,
Yet one o’er all the earth;
Her charter of salvation,
One Lord, one faith, one birth;
One holy Name she blesses,
Partakes one holy food,
And to one hope she presses,
With every grace endued.
The Church shall never perish!
Her dear Lord to defend,
To guide, sustain, and cherish,
Is with her to the end:
Though there be those who hate her,
And false sons in her pale,
Against both foe or traitor
She ever shall prevail.
Though with a scornful wonder
Men see her sore oppressed,
By schisms rent asunder,
By heresies distressed:
Yet saints their watch are keeping,
Their cry goes up, “How long?”
And soon the night of weeping
Shall be the morn of song!
’Mid toil and tribulation,
And tumult of her war,
She waits the consummation
Of peace forevermore;
Till, with the vision glorious,
Her longing eyes are blest,
And the great Church victorious
Shall be the Church at rest.
Yet she on earth hath union
With God the Three in One,
And mystic sweet communion
With those whose rest is won,
With all her sons and daughters
Who, by the Master’s hand
Led through the deathly waters,
Repose in Eden land.
O happy ones and holy!
Lord, give us grace that we
Like them, the meek and lowly,
On high may dwell with Thee:
There, past the border mountains,
Where in sweet vales the Bride
With Thee by living fountains
Forever shall abide!
Blessed be God, Dana. Thank you for the update. Where there is life there IS hope. Let us continue to pray for each other. And yes, there is much growth and fruit that comes from suffering. God be praised for giving us what we need…. and gird us with the grace to accept it! That’s the hard part.
Ahh The Church’s One Foundation. A lovely Methodist hymn. Anti-Papal too, despite it’s later catholic revision.
I went to the Catholic Watershed site that you recommended, and this is what I found – that you anniem and a few others are wrong to behave the way you do, and hateful behavior will never bring people over to the EF Mass.
You hurt your own credibility, and your behavior is unnecessary.
” It is not my place, and neither is it James Macmillan’s , to denigrate songs which enable people to pray , to celebrate hope , to grieve, to lov e and to follow Christ.” (emphasis added) ”
Here is the link (read it and weep) –
https://www.ccwatershed.org/blog/2014/feb/7/disparagement-not-helping-cause-liturgical-reform/
And here are the LYRICS for – “You’ll never walk alone”.
” When you walk through a storm, hold your head up high
And don’t be afraid of the dark
At the end of the storm, there’s a golden sky
And the sweet, silver song of a lark
Walk on through the wind
Walk on through the rain
Though your dreams be tossed and blown
Walk on, walk on
With hope in your heart
And you’ll never walk alone
You’ll never walk alone
Walk on, walk on
With hope in your heart
And you’ll never walk alone
You’ll never walk alone.”
Here are the Priests singing “you’ll never walk alone” –
which is perfect for the after Mass recessional/exit -at a Funeral Mass to uplift family members.
Great reminder – you never walk alone. God is always there.
And hopefully your loved one will always be with you as well.
Look at the English Translation that ‘anniem’ is complaining about.
The lyrics are beautiful for a requiem Mass.
I guess ‘anniem’ doesn’t understand Latin, unless he does not like Agnus Dei either.
ENGLISH TRANSLATION – Pie Jesu
” Merciful Jesus, merciful Jesus, merciful Jesus, merciful Jesus
Father, who takes away the sins of the world
Grant them rest, grant them rest
Merciful Jesus, merciful Jesus, merciful Jesus, merciful Jesus
Father, who takes away the sins of the world
Grant them rest, grant them rest
Lamb of God, Lamb of God, Lamb of God, Lamb of God
Father, who takes away the sins of the world
Grant them rest, grant them rest
everlasting everlasting Rest.”
Here is the Song sung by the Priests.-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt8TcWeL3A0
Andrew Lloyd Webber’s Requiem was written to honor his father, who, sadly, passed away in 1982. It’s his most personal composition, and the only fully completed classical work. It’s a striking, yet welcome, departure from the style of music for which Lloyd Webber is known.
In 1986, Requiem earned Lloyd Webber a Grammy Award for Best Classical Contemporary Composition. Unlike a traditional requiem mass, Lloyd Webber combined the texts of the Pie Jesu and Agnus Dei.)
Written by Samuel Wesley, the illegitimate grandson of Charles Wesley, was Church of England and considered the finest organist of his generation who used the melody from a Catholic musician, Robt Pearsall. Fr George Rutler includes it in his book “Brightest and Best” book of hymns. It is not a “Methodist” hymn but one that speaks to the heart of true believers. I can’t imagine not being moved by these beautiful lyrics.
Handel and Bach were not Catholics either.
Nor was Mozart or Beethoven Catholic…but these men all wrote superlative Requiem Masses, as has John Rutter and Leonard Bernstein. Music is the universal language that can speak to God for us…if it is perfection.
Beethoven was catholic. Mozart was as well. What are you talking about Dana?
Don’t you wish you were Catholic (rather than a Catholic heretic who supports sodomy marriage) YFC ?
Maybe someday if you decide to love God more than sex you will repent. I hope so.
Isaac Watts wrote “Joy to the World”; Charles Wesley wrote “Hark the Herald Angels Sing”; these and other non-Catholic Christians have written songs that are used at both the OF and EF forms of the Mass. (Check your hymnals.)
One of my favorites is George Handel’s Messiah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RrdwElnTU
At the beginning watch the audience stand – PRAISE OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST !
God gave different people different gifts.
“I will raise him up on the last day” Is that not scriptural?
Caroline, everyone will NOT be Saved as the song lyrics may incorrectly lead one to believe. In fact, quite the opposite.
This is one of the problems with some Songs when you listen carefully to the lyrics
They give people a false impression.
For the TRUTH by JESUS that only FEW be saved see: Mt 7:13-14; &
Lk 13:23-28.
There are some songs sung at Mass on occasion that I actually find heretical, and therefore will not sing them, so I stand in silence.
So the Machebees lit fires for their dead…..mazol tov. The Catholic doctrine of Purgatory is controversial at best, contrived at worst. Most Catholics attending a funeral are not too keen on the thought of their loved one being stir fried over extreme heat in Purgatory. The doctrine contradicts the doctrine of mercy. Who is the local priest, or others, to suggest they know it all when it comes to the deceased and are absolutely certain that this person is boiling in oil in Purgatory? This teaching is one that arrived very late on the Catholic scene, and the financial corruption it spawned was a major cause of the Protestant Reformation. In our Modern Age, Purgatory does provide some comfort to the more Authoritarian Catholics who believe harshness, pain, and doctrinal rigidity are the touchstone of their faith, and this teaching gives them the fear that they need to feel comfortable with their believe system, as well as the satisfaction that those they deem to be “un-Catholic Catholics” are getting their just desserts in Purgatory. Doesn’t sound like a very Christian attitude, does it?
You have no clue about the Doctrine of Mercy in the Catholic Faith.
But I’m glad that you are now finally admitting you are a Protestant, Anonymous.
The dogma of Purgatory makes perfect sense.
CCC: “1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence.
Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the “eternal punishment” of sin.
On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory.
This purification frees one from what is called the “temporal punishment” of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin.
A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain. ”
CCC: ” 1473 The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin,
but temporal punishment of sin remains.
While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace.
Anonymous, the fires of purgatory are spiritual sufferings of the soul to purify it Read 1 Corinthians 3:15; 1 Peter 3:18-20 7; ! Peter 4:17-19 and last, but not least, 2 Timothy 1:16-18 where St. Paul prays for his dead friend Onesiphorus.
All those passages are in the New Testament, which even the Protestants accepted. I am not quoting the Deuterocanonical Old Testiment books, such as the books of Maccabees, which the Protestants rejected although Our Lord and His Apostles quoted from some of them and used them. Why would St. Paul pray for Onesiphorus if he was sure he was already in heaven.
The Catholic Church also has some writings of the early Church Fathers, Christian men and saints who came after the Apostles but knew some of them. They mention prayers for the dead in some of their writings. The official prayer book of the Church, the Liturgy of the Hours, contains many of the writings and sermons of the early Church Fathers. Those writings are part of the Tradition, with a capitol “T” of the Church. These writings have lead to many Protestant conversions to the Catholic Church over the centuries. Also, there are prayers for the dead found on the walls and/or tombs in the Christian parts of the catacombs, where the early Christians hid to avoid martyrdom and often buried their dead..
May the souls of the Faithful Departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace.
By the way, many who go to the post Vatican II Mass only, or most often, do pray for the dead and have Masses said for them and/or do indulgences for them. At least in our area they do. “The Handbook of Indulgences, Norms and Grants”, that was put out in 1991, is the latest official book on indulgences put out by the Catholic Book Publishing Company as far as I know.
Anne T and others,
the LATEST approved “MANUAL of INDULGENCES” “Norms and Grants” by the Apostolic Penitentiary FOURTH Edition is 1999
not 1991.
Publisher – USCCB for the USA.
First printing, October, 2006.
English Translation Copyright 2006, Libreria Editrice Vaticana.
Thank you, Mike, for the update. It seems as though I bought mine just a few years ago, but perhaps the years have gone by fast as the place where I bought it does keep up-to -date. Nevertheless, it is still good. Most in the newer one is probably the same as in the 1991.
Annonymous Coward,
By your above comments, It is very obvious now why you won’t identify yourself, because you are a complete heretic!
May God have mercy on your non Catholic soul! Go ahead and call me mean spirited because I care for your salvation!
By the way, belief in Purgatory is a Catholic Dogma that you must believe in.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Kenneth M. Fisher
And I guess Anon thinks everyone is on the express lane to Heaven…
Why bother to have a Vatican II funeral “mass” at all?
Are you a heretic ?
For Church definition of heretic, see CCC 2089.
Barbara if you are an example of those who support the Latin Mass, you are one of the most unchristian persons I have ever heard of.
You have no Love, for your neighbors as Commanded by Jesus.
Or don’t you know the Bible either ?
If you don’t change, you will go to Hell.
How is Barbara being unchristian, Mary? The way I read her posts is that if the new approach is that of promoting the idea that ‘everyone goes to Heaven’ why would there be a ‘need’ for a mass at death? Unless that is the new focus of mass is only celebration of the Eucharist without the integral reality of the propitiatory sacrifice that occurs – the very same that repairs for our sins. The same sins that land souls in Purgatory and worse.
Maybe Barbara could explain her comments further. I, for one, would like to understand her point of view, Mary. Castigating someone you think to be representative of the Latin Mass by narrowly defining them only polarizes and, whether you see it or not, can make those who I could suppose ‘support the Novus Ordo’ appear closed minded or unchristian in their eagerness to castigate and silence their self-made opponents.
All of us run the risk of going to Hell…not just those we misinterpret or rush to judge without ‘right judgement’.
Ann Malley, any “Catholic” who implies that if one does not have a Latin Funeral Mass, they do not need a Funeral Mass at all – is a HERETIC, does not love her neighbor as commanded by Jesus, and therefore propbably will not get to Heaven for violating the Commandment of Jesus.
Barbara is not charitable or merciful.
.
Read the CCC 2089 for Church definition of heresy.
God bless you Sadie and BETH…you are both correct!
And being ‘correct’ is more important than looking to the fruits or attempting to bring about unity via understanding of what others are actually attempting to convey. So let’s all jump to our ‘correct’ conclusions, the totalitarian kind that rejects the reality that bad fruits often issue from bad policy… even that which is lega.
Pope Francis is correct in rejecting the ivory tower mentality.
It’s good to see you Abeca.
Welcome back Abeca. I hope you are well. I’ve been worried about you!
Abeca, so good to hear from you! Missed you!
“Sadie” you have much to learn about what it means to be Catholic. That is the genuine meaning, not like a child who can read words they do not comprehend. Asking questions and making observations are a good starting point, not making rash judgments and proclaiming who will and who will not get into Heaven.
Be careful your zeal for rash judgement and CAPITAL letters doesn’t trip you up on your way to the pearly gates. Although Barbara might prove charitable and help you get in anyway.
Let’s assume it was a sincere question and not just a snotty sacrilegious remark.
Why bother to have a Catholic funeral Mass?
“At the funeral liturgy the community gathers with the family and friends of the deceased to give praise and thanks to God for Christ’s victory over sin and death, to commend the deceased to God’s tender mercy· and compassion and to seek strength in the proclamation of the paschal mystery” (Order of Christian Funerals)
“The funeral Mass is first and foremost the time when the Church gathers to pray on behalf of the deceased, whose life of faith, begun at baptism, was strengthened at the Eucharistic table. At her funeral rites, the Church commends the dead to God’s merciful love and prays for the forgiveness of their sins. At the funeral Mass the Church also ministers to those who mourn the loss of a loved one as the proclamation of God’s holy Word and the Sacrament of the Eucharist bring healing and hope to hearts that are heavy with grief.” Diocese of Harrisburg website
Ann Malley, whether you like it or not, you are the one who has to learn what it means to be “Catholic”. Sadie gets it.
When done properly according to the approved rubrics, both Forms of the Mass are Holy.
Do you really think Jesus would approve of you and others bad mouthing another Form of the approved Mass?
Do you bad mouth the Byzantine form of the Mass as well, or the Marion form of the Mass?
Everytime someone brings about discord over an approved form of the Mass, you drive the nails deeper into Christ.
Encouraging others to attend the Form of the Mass that you personally prefer is fine.
Bad mouthing another form is wrong.
All forms of the Mass are wrong (not bad) when they do not follow the approved rubrics. And these need correction with the Priest and if necessary his Bishop.
Beth, it is not a matter of what ‘I’ like or do not like. As to driving the nails deeper, look to the fruits of what a more open – but approved – form of the mass has brought. You and Sadie seem to miss the reality that those in positions of religious authority gave tacit permission and – in reality – begged the nails to be driven into Christ in the first place.
But keep up the facade of ‘personal preference’. If that is what you live by, thank God for the liberty He has given you. And grant others the liberty to speak their hearts and motives…like preserving the reality of the sacrificial nature of the mass and the very real necessity of praying for the dead.
As to your ‘What would Jesus do’, mentality,I would say He’d speak the honestly – much like He instructed the Apostles that what Moses allowed – writs of divorce – were not God’s plan. And I do not think for a moment that He would have castigated any of the Jewish community who spoke truthfully, even in the time of Moses, who would say, “This is not what God’s plan was for man. He created Adam and Eve,” and bid them to be fruitful and multiply.
So while you believe, perhaps, that castigating those you perceive to be promoting disunity by making sensible observations, you do not realize that in so doing you drive an entirely different class of sheep away from the fold. And not just traditional sheep.
On All Souls Day, and within 8 days, we can gain a plenary indulgence for a soul in Purgatory, if we have the Sacraments of Confession and Holy Communion, and pray for the intentions of Our Holy Father as well as the soul in Purgatory, as well as going to a cemetery to do this. I have done this every year, but I never hear it at the Mass or at funerals. Why is this not taught to all Catholics anymore? (Of course the soul in Purgatory must be forgiven already, but this helps remove all further punishment due to sin.)
Yoli, you are right that some priests who serve the post Vatican II Mass do not preach as much on purgatory. Perhaps it is since there are fewer priests in their area and not enough to say as many Masses.I have noticed, though, that Catholic churches or Shrines that have gift shops connected to them, do preach more on purgatory and recommend the books and pamphlets in their shops with indulged prayers.. More priests, though, should be recommending prayers for the dead as it is easy to find indulged prayers on line for no price at all if one cannot afford a prayer book. Also, many orders send out Mass cards to Catholics for birthdays,healing and the diseased. One needs to make sure, though, that the order does teach the Catholic Faith faithfully. That usually can be checked out on line.
The number of Priests have nothing to do with “homilies”.
Most Priests are shirking their duties (some possibly due to lousy formation in the seminary and Bishops doing nothing to correct this.)
Sacred Scripture (Catholic Bible) is the Word of God. (CCC 81)
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition contains the Doctrine of the Faith.
These are the two most Important books of our Faith, gifts from the Magisterium.
Both contain teachings on:
SIN; the need for REPENTANCE; JUDGMENT; HEAVEN; HELL;
but how many times do we hear homilies on these?
“…some possibly due to lousy formation in the seminary and Bishops doing nothing to correct this.”
There are myriad reasons behind what you post, Beth, and they have roots that many would deny. So while you may want to leave certain aspects off the discussion table (forms of mass being one of them), the more folks seek to discover the source of problems, the more those issues cry out to be discussed. Openly.
If only we could have a Synod on the mass where Bishops and lay folk were encouraged to speak freely without fear of condemnation, reprisal and/or cries of heresy. For unlike the topics discussed at the recent ‘family’ synod (homosexual couples, communion for those in ongoing adulterous relationships, etc) that which would be discussed and, that which would be considered outrageous scandalous topics by many a Bishop, would be the very nature and benefit of the same Catholic practice that built up the Church over nearly 2000 years. The very same that had every Catholic understanding the necessity of praying for their dead. And God bless those devout NO adherents that do pray for the dead despite what they hear or do not hear from leadership.
You mention, “SIN; the need for REPENTANCE; JUDGMENT; HEAVEN; HELL; but how many times do we hear homilies on these?”
Excellent question, Beth. Pastoral options on rubrics concerning the New Order of Mass give much leeway to leave the very topics you mention OUT of the homilies.
I knew a very humble,holy priest who had struggled for many years with several types of cancer….a long,hard fight. The Bishop came to visit Fr. Dan a few months before he died and they had a wonderful visit and time for prayer. Dan told the Bishop,even after years of treatments and hospital stays and radiation and chemotherapy…Dan told his Bishop…”Well,when I die, I know I will have to spend a long long time in Purgatory because of my many sins.” The Bishop put up his hand and told Fr. Dan…”what do you think these last six years have been?…you’ve already done your time in Purgatory.” (offered as food for thought in the current conversation)
P.Lahey, current suffering can be offered up for our sins.
However, the Bishop had no business making any assumptions.
Further all those who pray for Dan should assume he is in Purgatory to be safe.
Many have had cancer who never offer their sufferings as penance for our sins.
This includes myself who never offered my physical suffering because I never through of it.
P.Lahey, some people do go straight to heaven, but we should pray for all unless they are officially canonized as the Church also teaches that those prayers are never wasted. If the person one is praying for does not need those prayers, they can be applied to a soul who does need them. There is a name for that doctrine but I cannot think of it now.
I read the death notices daily in my hometown newspaper. How tragic it is that most of the Catholics who die, have NO funeral Mass, and only a prayer service is given, lead by a nun! Just as tragic are the Catholics who have their ashes sprinkled over the ocean or lake, with no prayers at all offered. One man who died, had his ashes mixed with that of his wife’s and his dog’s. He wanted his son to sprinkle them over the ocean. When the son opened the window, and then opened the canister of ashes, the ashes were ingested into the pilot, he lost control of the aircraft, crashed and died. God will not be mocked! We are becoming pagan very rapidly, as we have lost our precious Catholic heritage.
Except in war situations (for the health of others), scattering of ashes on the land or in the ocean is NEVER permitted for anyCatholic.
Merging ashes together is not permitted.
Merching ashes with an animal is not permitted.
I read “A’s” post above and it clearly lacks the justice and Divine-Centered purpose of purgatory and emphasizes the human-centered all merciful protestant viewpoint adopted by luke-warm naive modern people.
For those that really care about their souls eternal salvation and those of their family and loved ones, it is time for them to turn Our Lady to ask that she show them back to the Truth, her wonderful son, our Most High Jesus. Pray the rosary so she will direct you to a true Roman Catholic Church where the Truth is not only preached, but lived and practiced daily and where there is no controversy with what the modern clergy are doing. You may find a Roman Catholic Parish following tradition in your neighborhood and it is well worth eternity’s-sake by typing traditio into your website. It contains a very popular Latin Mass Directory. Seek the Immaculate Heart of Mary and Sacred Heart of Jesus as they won’t let you down in your search for the true Roman Catholic Faith.
charon rides souls over the river styx
In the Divine Comedy, Charon forces reluctant sinners onto his boat by beating them with his oar.
A few years ago there was a odd mix story being passed around using Greek Mythology to make a modern day point in a modern day world that has embraced pagan beliefs. It was written about a bishop who died and he was weeping with other souls riding in the boat while being carried across the river Styx that divided the land of the living and the land of the dead. The other sinners riding in the boat asked the bishop, “Why are you weeping, you were a Catholic bishop and surely your own flock will pray for your soul and the bishop wept even louder and said, “No they won’t…I taught them that purgatory and hell don’t exist.”
The anti-bishop minions invent many stories.
To the faithful in danger of death, who cannot be assisted by the priest to bring them the sacraments and impart the Apostolic Blessing with its plenary indulgence, Holy Mother Church nevertheless grants a plenary indulgence at the point of death, provided they are properly disposed and have been in the habit of reciting some prayers during their lifetime. The use of a crucifix or a cross to gain this indulgence is praiseworthy.
The condition: “provided they have been in the habit of reciting some prayers during their lifetime” supplies in such cases for the three usual conditions required for the gaining of a plenary indulgence.
The plenary indulgence at the point of death can be acquired by the faithful, even if they have already obtained another plenary indulgence on the same day.
There has to be two Anonymouses, for the above one, the Prayers before a Crucifix with one Our Father, one Hail Mary, and one Glory Be can be sufficient for a Plenary Indulgence.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Kenneth M. Fisher
I agree. Some have asked both “Anonymous” posters to identify themselves differently, but they both refuse.
So they are both guilty of spreading confusion.
Maybe it is only one schizophrenic poster ?
Kenneth M. Fischer Under the usual conditions of Communion, Confession and disattachment from all sin, even venial sin. On the Fridays of Lent and Passiontide. All other days the indulgence in partial. The Prayers (Our Father and the Creed are recommended) must be for the intentions of the Holy Father.
On any day-with the conditions listed above- there are 4 ways to gain a plenary indulgence (only one can be gained per day) ;
adoration of the Blessed Sacrament for at least one half an hour;
devout reading of Sacred Scripture for at least one half an hour;
the pious exercise of the Way of the Cross before legitimately erected stations, while meditating on the Passion and Death of the Lord, accompanid by movement from one station to the next (unless it is a public prayer where all cannot move, then at least one person must. Only if you are impeded, may you gain this indulgence by reading and meditating on the Passion and Death of our Lord Jesus Christ;
the recitation of the Marian Rosary in a church or public oratory or in a family group, religious community or pious Association.
There are a lot more than 2. What difference does it make?
Anonymous, If you thought your postings were true, why would you want to confuse people with conflicting and inconsistent posts ?
Surely you can pick another name or call yourself something like:
” Anonymous # 3″.
My beliefs are in conformity with the Holy Catholic Church. There is at least one anonymous poster who does not share that. Sometimes I am treated as if I am he. It is a suffering in humility that the Lord allows. I do not wish to change because I feel it is what the Lord desires. If you respond to the post and not who you assume the poster to be, there will not be a problem.
The Apostolic Pardon (or blessing) is an indulgence given in situations of danger of death, usually after the absolution of the sacrament of penance. The focus is on the remission of temporal punishment due to sin. The words of the prayer explain the meaning of the act: “Through the holy mysteries of our redemption may almighty God release you from all punishments in this life and in the life to come. May he open to you the gates of paradise and welcome you to everlasting joy.” Or “By the authority which the Apostolic See has given me, I grant you a full pardon and the remission of all your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”
The Handbook of Indulgences #28 states: “Priests who minister the sacraments to the Christian faithful who are in a life-and-death situation should not neglect to impart to them the apostolic blessing, with its attached indulgence. But if a priest cannot be present, holy mother Church lovingly grants such persons who are rightly disposed a plenary indulgence to be obtained in articulo mortis, at the approach of death, provided they regularly prayed in some way during their lifetime. The use of a crucifix or a cross is recommended in obtaining this plenary indulgence. In such a situation the three usual conditions required in order to gain a plenary indulgence are substituted for by the condition ‘provided they regularly prayed in some way.’
Anonymous, could you please tell us the first printing date on the “Manual of Indulgences” from the copyright page that you are using?
The date should be: Oct 2006 for the latest APPROVED version for the “Enchiridion Indulgentiarum, fourth edition (1999)” and published by the USCCB for the USA.
#28 is “Profession of Faith and Acts of Theological Virtue” at the Easter Vigil.
(page 98).
There is a Plenary Indulgence called “At the point of Death” #12 on page 54.
in which a Priest can grant an Apostolic Blessing at the point of death.
Although similar the wording is slightly different in some paragraphs, and words are important.
And as you have stated the person must be a “Christian Faithful” (not a heretic), and be duly disposed which means in the State of Grace (not in the State of Mortal Sin, etc.)
Because some people may have outdated books, it is best if people get the latest Manual of Indulgence .
.
I’m sorry. this was taken from EWTN website. I do not know the edition they used.
Anonymous, perhaps that post was outdated – prior to Oct 2006.
Hopefully EWTN has dated their information.
When you have a question, there is general contact info on their web site.
Mary, thank you for pointing out that there is a 4th edition of the Enchiridion of Indulgences. I can only find the first edition online. I will have to buy it from the USCCB. Thanks!
There is a true story of a bishop who died and the day of his funeral one of the priests in his diocese refused to go with his brother priests to the funeral Mass of the bishop because this priest did not like the bishop who had been cruel to the priest who refused to attend. That night the priest who did not attend the funeral was visited in a dream by the deceased bishop who demanded in the dream to know why the priest was not there in attendance praying for his (the bishop’s) soul. The dream was so frightening that the priest immediately got up and went down to the chapel and offered up the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass for the intention of the soul of this deceased bishop.
Catherine,
Such stories are not Catholic Doctrine!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Kenneth M. Fisher
Thank you Kenneth Fisher. I agree. I always appreciate your many thoughtful and informative posts that tell the different stories of the faithful clergy that you have met.
The second post is not doctrine either but it is a true story and the priest who was involved shared this story with us as a teaching reminder to forgive one another and still pray for those who have hurt us or disappointed us.
My dad passed away Nov. 3rd. and he had the most beautiful Tridentine Latin Mass. The casket was draped in black and the priest wore black vestments. The priest is also saying the 30 day Gregorian Masses for his soul. We should assume that we will all have some sort of Purgatory to do. We should NEVER tell people that they are in heaven because we do not know for sure and if people think that nobody will be praying for the souls of the departed. I will pray for the souls of my mom and dad until the day I die. When I pray for them I also include all the souls in purgatory especially those who have nobody praying for them. Purgatory is a DOGMA of the church and we must pray for the souls there.
I am so sorry for your loss, RR. Your father will have my prayers. Thank you again for sharing and ensuring that he so well provided for…. your parents both must be very pleased with their daughter. That said, please pray for both my parents too. I have not always been a good daughter. Not by far.
God bless.
Ann Malley and Catherine: Thank you for your kind words. I will pray for both of your parents wether they are here with us or have passed. It has been very difficult to say the least losing my mom and dad within 7 months of each other, but the only thing that gets me through is knowing what I and a few of us other sisters did for them spiritually at the time of their deaths. My most cherished memories of them are when I would visit them and stay at their house for the weekend (I live and hour and a half from them) we would always do the rosary together. This is my comfort. They were both very loyal Traditional Catholics and I know right now they may still be in purgatory, but they will be, if not already, someday with God.
RR,
Beautiful post. You are correct, we should all assume that we will have some sort of Purgatory to do. What a faithful, loyal and loving daughter you are! God bless you for remembering your dad by having the 30 day Gregorian Mass said for his soul.
My condolences to you and your family.
Do you know of the Great Psalter?
There is no “eulogy” in the Rubrics for the Ordinary Form of the Funeral Mass. This would be an abuse of the Mass.
However the presiding Priest (same in the EF Mass) does give a homily.
Make certain your Priest adheres to the Rubrics, and asks everyone to pray for you or your deceased family member in the homily.
” 382. At Funeral Masses there should usually be a short Homily, but to the exclusion of a funeral eulogy of any kind.”
USCCB web site: https://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/girm-chapter-8.cfm
This I will say, I have in writing that I wish to have the last rites in their traditional latin form (Sacraments of Penance, Holy Communion, and Extreme Unction) a Rosary with a minimum of 5 decades prayed for me as well as a traditional Roman Catholic Requeum Mass and grave site burial service, all as was done before the Vatican II changes upon my death . These Roman Catholic rites are to be conducted by a holy Roman Catholic priest (one who only practices the traditional latin sacraments and was ordained under the pre-Vatican 2 Sacrament of Holy Orders in latin by a valid Bishop consecrated by the pre-Vatican 2 Sacrament of Holy Orders for bishops). Then hopefully my friends and family will pray for my poor soul and have that same holy priest and others say 30 Gregorian Tridentine Latin Masses for the salvation of my poor soul. This I pray as purgatory is no rose garden, and I want to see and be with our loving Heavenly Father, His Holy Son, and the wonderful Holy Ghost, Blessed Mother Mary, St. Joseph, and the holy angels and saints just as soon as I can. Sincerely, an unproud sinner.