Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone of the Archdiocese of San Francisco told Fox News Digital in an exclusive interview that properly educating Catholics and organizing around critical social issues is the only way for the Catholic Church to make headway back into the modern cultural arena.
“In our own Catholic Church, we’re in a struggle about living our faith in a world that’s become very secularized — but secularized not in the sense of apart from religion, but with a value system that’s hostile to some basic values that we have,” the archbishop said. “How do we live our faith with integrity?”
….The Catholic Church’s social power has been on the decline for decades. Compared to many other religious voting blocs, such as the Evangelical and Mormon communities, Catholics have been unable or unwilling to meaningfully organize for political goals.
The reason for the lackluster solidarity is apparent, he suggested. Catholic voters across the country cannot find meaningful consensus with each other, even on dogmatic proscriptions.
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, an authoritative reference for Catholic doctrine, “Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.”
A May 2022 Pew Research study found 53% of surveyed U.S. Catholics believed abortion should be legal in all or most cases. By contrast, only 42% of Catholic respondents believed abortion should be illegal in most or all cases.
These results shifted drastically — but not entirely — when Pew accounted for regular worship; 68% of Catholics who attend weekly mass believed abortion should be illegal in all or most cases, compared to 30% who believed it should be legal.
“We have a high percentage of Catholics on paper, but we haven’t done a very good job of forming our people well in the faith and helping them understand the faith and love it and live it out,” Cordileone told Fox News Digital. “Unfortunately, there are a lot of Catholics who don’t really follow everything our church teaches because they probably were never taught what it really does teach and the wisdom that’s underlying it.”
He continued, “So their lives aren’t informed by the faith. Even though they identify as Catholic, the way they live their life, their priorities, their instincts — even to some extent, perhaps, their values — are influenced more by the secular society than their Catholic faith. And I think that has caused a weakening in terms of the social influence that the church should have and trying to contribute to the common good.”
….For Catholics unable to find political representation or candidates that adhere properly to their ethics, the archbishop suggests they seek offices themselves.
“It’s the role of the laypeople to be participating in the political process,” Cordileone said. “So run for office — run for local school board, their city council — and work up the system.”
Perhaps most important, Cordileone believes, is raising faithful children “so that they can be well-formed, intellectually-rooted and able to pursue a career of community service or even in politics — to be the force that changes the culture by their own participation.”
From Fox News
Judging by their comments and publications, I think some of Church’s clergy were never taught what the Church really does teach. Either that or they outright reject it.
The Church is a mess. On just about any doctrine, you can find “Catholics” and clergy who will give you contrary explanations.
Abortion, which the archbishop mentions, is an easy example. You cannot be Catholic and support the legal killing of unborn human beings. You can’t. Yet many do.
Take gay marriage and gay sex, for example. There are bishops, priests, catechists, theologians, teachers, and authors who are proposing that gay sex and gay marriage should be blessed by the Church. Others state the traditional and correct view that they are intrinsically evil and gravely sinful.
When members of the Church express contrary opinions about matters as simple as abortion, gay marriage and gay sex, the Church is a mess, and it is broken.
I wonder if Humpty Dumpty can be put back together again.
The unchurched (both Protestant and Catholic) say one big reason for not attending is that the denominations became too political. Well that makes sense according to Archbishop Cordileone, because those who stayed are happy with a political interpretation of the faith, and the Archbishop wants Catholics to be more political. Put it all together, and you have a smaller and smaller Church.
I think people may hold a position that abortion (or other moral questions) are prohibited for individuals, but that they don’t want their government regulating their religious beliefs. I know many many Catholics who don’t go to Church anymore but who are still believers, who hold this view.
Take your argument back to the 1800s: “Personally, I could never justify owning a slave. However, I would not prohibit other individuals from owning slaves because I don’t want the government regulating our religious beliefs”.
Slave ownership infringes (quite severely) on the rights of individual people. Before you say that abortion does too, keep in that the courts and constitution never referred to people as people until after they are born.
And that is the problem.
The US does not give full rights to young people.
Are you old enough to remember “You can fight and die for your country but you cannot vote?”
OK. They let them vote now.
Can’t legally purchase a cigarette unless you are in the military until age 21.
Wrong, abortion was unlawful in California and the other United States before and after I was born and up to Roe vs Wade (1970), Physicians were allowed to save the life of the mother by taking out an ectopic pregnancy, which is not an actual abortion as both the mother and child would die otherwise. Doctors were taught to try to save both, woman and child. Susan B. Anthoy and most of the early feminists were against abortion because they said it was the abuse of women and the family.
A more accurate assessment of the phenomenon you describe is that people don’t think being Catholic should have any impact on their other beliefs. They want to compartmentalize religion: it’s a nice thing you do on Sunday, but it shouldn’t affect anything else about your life. Then when the priest says that being Catholic means you can’t support abortion, they get their panties in a bunch because they want to support abortion.
“because those who stayed are happy with a political interpretation of the faith, and the Archbishop wants Catholics to be more political.” I’m sorry YFC, but may I ask, What is a “political interpretation of the faith”? True, the Catholic faith holds moral views that have political implications; we can all agree on that. Is this all you mean by this phrase? Do tell, and thanks in advance.
You would prefer that Muslims and atheists and perhaps Jews compartmentalize their faith, or do you want their faith enshrined into law too? Why should Catholics be any different than any of these? How does Sharia law sound to you? How do you look in a burka?
I was hoping for an answer to my question, YFC, but this comment does not appear to be relevant to that question. In fact I was reading the posts above yours and wasn’t sure who/what your post was in response to. Could you elaborate 1. who is the “you” in the sentence “You would prefer Muslims…”
2. Who is clamouring for faith enshrined into law? 3. What does it means for Catholics to “compartmentalize their faith?” Again, thanks in advance for helping me understand what you are saying.
If you read my mpost Dan, the archbishops article, and the he posts surrounding both you will find the knowledge you seek.
I know Catholics haven’t been taught the faith.
1. Catholic parishes sing stupid music with sappy lyrics at Mass.
2. Catholic priests and deacons rarely give meaningful homilies.
3. Parish religious ed programs are insubstantial.
3. Catholic schools teach Democrat Party and Leftist propaganda instead of the faith.
4. Youth ministry programs try to be cool instead of Catholic.
The problem is so pervasive, so deep, and has been going on for so long that I wonder how it will ever reverse.
Catholics don’t know who they are anymore nor what they are supposed to be or believe. It’s almost like the word “Catholic” designates nothing substantial, merely indicating that you probably had Catholic parents who baptized you and took you to Mass when you were a kid.
Or they were never evangelized. As St. John Paul taught us, the new evangelization is new (in part) because we have to start with people in our pews. Then, following evangelization, good catechesis is needed. Pray for the conversion of Gavin Newsom and Joe Biden. Then, they would be open to the Scriptures and the Catechism and might live and govern accordingly.
Actually the issue is not whether abortion is wrong. Most know that it is.
The issue is the role of government.
Most frequently you hear “I am against abortion but I cannot tell someone else what to do.”
Or that it is not the government’s job to impose the tenets of religion on the whole of the people.
Catholics have immoral sex and get abortions just as much as non-Catholics. By the fact that someone identifies as Catholic, you can’t tell anything about their morality. There are Nancy Pelosi Catholics and Bishop Strickland Catholics. There are James Martin Catholics and Taylor Marshall Catholics. If that’s the case, then being Catholic means nothing because it can mean anything.
Being Catholic means that you have been baptized in the Catholic Church or in another Christian denomination and have accepted the Catholic Faith.
Who would want to be a James Martin Catholic It sounds like an oxymoron.
You would be surprised. The conversation is no longer that. Perhaps it was in the 70s when Roe was decided, but now no longer.
In modern days, you will see people celebrating abortions, promoting the murder of children, and spitting in motherhood, all in the excuse of “feminism”. This is the debate we deal with now.
On another point, we as Catholics need to remember that the separation of church and state is heretical (Testem benevolentiae nostrae, Pope Leo XIII). We live in a country founded on non-Catholic, dare I even say anti-Catholic, ideals. The United States, the Constitution, and our political institutions… all disgusting, putrid, anti-Catholic things. We must operate in these institutions but remember that we need to create a truly Catholic nation here one day.
The United States, the Constitution, and our political institutions… all disgusting, putrid, anti-Catholic things. We must operate in these institutions but remember that we need to create a truly Catholic nation here one day.
The Constitution is not putrid or anti-Catholic in any way. It calls for a nation ruled by “We the People …” It is a great experiment still working toward being “more perfect.”
The First Amendment calls for a country that does not have a state religion and a country in which everyone is able to practice the religion of their choice. That is not being anti-Catholic. Nations with one religion, theocracies, never seem to work out, with perhaps the Holy See being the exception. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, etc. are good examples of theocracies that don’t work for the good of the people.
Let’s also remember that our nation was founded by a group of deists. Look at the Declaration of Independence – …”the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them…” That is deism not Christianity.
Bob One,– No, our Nation was not created by a group of Deists. Look up the background on each of our Nation’s Founders, and you will see a big mix of churches and beliefs. We had Puritans, Anglicans,
Episcopalians, Catholics, Congregationalists, Quakers of Pennsylvania, Baptists, Presbyterians, Dutch Reformed, etc. Some of the American Colonies did require belonging to a certain church, and following its rules and beliefs. In Virginia, originally, the Church of England was established as the State Church, under the King. Most New England colonies, and the Carolinas, prohibited Catholics from holding public office. Virginia had Catholic priests arrested if they entered their colony. Catholics and Catholic clerics were outlawed in some colonies. Puritans outlawed both Anglicanism and Catholicism. Daniel Carroll, a Catholic plantation owner and a Founder of Maryland, was one of five men who signed both the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution. He later served as a Member of the House of Representatives from Maryland. Carroll’s older brother, Abp. John Carroll, a Jesuit– was the first American Catholic bishop, and first Archbishop of Baltimore. He firmly established the Catholic Church in America. Their cousin, Charles Carroll, was a signer of the Declaration of Independence.
Maryland was one of the few English colonies that became predominantly Catholic. George Washington was an Anglican, from the colony of Virginia, and served as a vestryman and a church warden, for many years. He and his wife attended church, prayed, and read the Bible, regularly. As a young man, he also joined the Freemasons, which was common among many of the wealthy men, in the colonies, at that time. Almost all of our Nation’s Founders believed in God, attended their churches regularly, and prayed and read the Bible regularly. In the 20th century, many Americans, unfortunately, began to be badly influenced to discard their religious beliefs in God, regular church attendance, and the regular practice of prayer and Bible reading. We need to reclaim belief in God and religious practice, and morality, in America.
Well done. This is a good synopsis of some of our Founders. Don’t forget, however, that Jefferson edited and published his own bible, wrote about Nature’s God, etc.
Dig a little deeper, and you will find, for instance, that Washington and other Founders were avid Masons, which at that time was very anti-Catholic.
Let’s remember, and I forget rather often, that history is written by the victors or to reflect a writer’s point of view.
Should we study the Civil War or the War of Northern Aggression?
Reply to: where did you get that information? It sounds like it came from a Christian Nationalist.
The religious beliefs of the Founders have been debated for a long time.
This is a good entry:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-Deism-and-Christianity-1272214
You think Washington was a good Anglican.
Do you think a good Anglican would lead a war against the head of his Church?
There are lots of opinionated people who try to re-write history according to their own twisted views, to wrongly indoctrinate children and adults into their beliefs. Hillsdale College, a non-denominational Christian college (today, predominantly Catholic) in Michigan, is a wonderful institution, that teaches our history and civilization correctly, and educates students in American civics and history. They have excellent student civic leadership programs, with internships in Washington, D.C. They have many excellent online courses, too, for non-students, to educate them to be excellent and knowledgeable citizens. All of our Founding Fathers had their own churches and personal beliefs. All were raised by the Bible, prayer, and Christianity, or were very familiar with Christian beliefs. A Christian influence was naturally evident in their public lives. They believed in God, prayer, and God’s Benevolence, Justice and Goodness to America, and the rightness of the cause of the American Revolution, creating a new country. Most of them belonged to and attended their church regularly, read the Bible, and prayed. And accepted these beliefs and practices as a normal part of life. None were reported as being atheist or having no church. Thomas Jefferson believed in a benevolent and just Creator, and believed in prayer– but had his distinct view of Christ, as being simply a very good and wise man, who did tremendous good for mankind. Jefferson did not accept Christ’s Divinity nor His miracles, nor any supernatural events related in the Bible. He wrote his own book about that. Today, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Pentecostals, Mormons, Unitarians, and other sects do not accept the traditional Christian doctrine of the Trinity. But Jefferson greatly admired Christ, and stated that Christ’s religious teachings were far superior to all others. Not one of our Founding Fathers desired to create some sort of atheist country, like Russia or China, today– they believed in God and accepted the Christian faith as a basically normal part of life. The truth is– our country was founded by a group of men who belonged to various Christian beliefs and churches– each one interpreting the Bible in their own way. Our country has, to this day, a strong Christian influence. Even Donald Trump had his own minister, at the White House, holding Bible Studies and prayer meetings. Pres. Biden is a bad Catholic, yet regularly asserts that he is a good one, and regularly attends his church. Do not misinterpret authentic, honest patriotism– love of country– as “Christian Nationalism.” Love of our great country, America– and doing our best for it– is a very important responsibility. Many gave their lives for our country– for us. It is a privilege to live in America. Never underestimate the great gift of God, in America, our country.
To good Anglican– Yes, many American colonial Anglicans fought against the King in the Revolutionary War. Many American patriots– including Washington– also had relatives still living in England, and visited them, whenever possible. Later, the Episcopal Church was established in America, as a branch of the worldwide Anglican Communion.
Christian nationalism wants people to think that America was a Christian nation at its founding and should return to being one.
It never was.
Whatever the personal piety of the founding fathers was, they wrote the documents to prevent the installation of a national religion.
There is no moral code of conduct in the Constitution.
The over-riding value of the documents is the right to not have the government tell you what you can and can’t do. Freedom from coercive government.
Bob One, history is a social science. It is not written by the victors. It is written by sincere scholars.
History books for children are necessarily truncated. There is only so much time and attention that children can give to the subject.
Others try to manipulate historical facts, opinions and speculations to try to get something.
That might be what you are referring to.
Beware of shallow thinking, as well as extremists with goofed-
-up radical beliefs. America is not an atheist country like Red China or Russia, or other Godless, Communist countries, who have done terrible atrocities to their people– and have no belief in God nor morality. Yes, America has always operated by excellent moral beliefs, since its founding. America, once a colony of England, settled originally by many Europeans primarily, has been influenced by Judeo-Christian beliefs, of our great Western Civilization. America, unlike atheist Communist countries, has tried to recognize the inherent dignity and value of all peoples, and offer a better way of life to those suffering unjustly under terrible political regimes. America is not perfect, but she tries hard to amend her moral failures, such as slavery. We are deeply blessed to live in America! As it states in our Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”(etc.) Beautiful! “In God We Trust” is our motto. Excellent! We are, as stated in our Pledge of Alliegance to our Flag: “…one Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all!” It is very important to recognize our great country as a gift of God, and to seek His Divine guidance in all things.
Reply to-that is exactly where I thought you learned that version of American history.
But once again, the personal beliefs of the founding fathers is not what it is in the Constitution.
It is that every American can live their own religion or none.
Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness are not Christian ideals. Life has become one because of abortion but that is since 1970s.
And that “all men are created equal” thing-they did not mean women or slaves. They meant they were equal to the King.
These were wealthy men, landowners and slaveowners who did not want a church or a King or a government telling them what to do.
They did not want any religion-theirs or someone else’s enshrined in the new government.
The motto “In God we Trust” was made the official motto of the US in 1956.
There was not one before that but the closest thing to one was E Pluribus Unum. “From many, one.’
They did not trust common folk. That is why they made a representative democracy instead of a democracy.
The idea that America was intended to be a Christian nation was never heard. It was a free country.
American colonist Roger Williams (1603-1683), originally an Anglican minister who became a Puritan minister, had a big influence on American ideals of separation of church and state. He believed the Church of England to be hopelessly false and corrupt, and became a Puritan, and then, a Separatist, further separating hinself from even the Puritans, as they had set up a theocracy in Massachusetts Bay Colony. Williams was a Puritan minister, but firmly believed that every man should be free to follow his own beliefs. He also was a greatly talented linguist, and he learned Indian languages quickly. This led him to a friendly relationship with Indian tribes, from whom he purchased land. Williams felt that he other colonists had not properly reimbursed the Indians for land purchases, and even charged the King of England with cheating the Indians. The other settlers were very upset with him over this, as it placed them all in a terrible position, with both the King and the Indians. Williams got expelled from ministry, and from the colony. He ended up founding the city of Providence and the state of Rhode Island, from land purchased from Indian tribes. He established the First Baptist Church, there– the first Baptist church in the American Colonies! A century later, Thomas Jefferson and other American revolutionaries were influenced by Williams’ beliefs, in setting up our country, with principles of separation of church and state.
I did not learn your so-called “version” of American history! I learned objective facts! How about you? Also, the so-called “personal beliefs” of great men who founded our country, are not for petty personal motives– their beliefs were educated, excellent, and for the greatest good of our new country. As for personal religious beliefs, they were intelligent and deeply dedicated to the rights of each person to decide for themselves on religious beluefs. We all owe tremendous respect to our Founding Fathers, and to pur great country, America. Many have shed their blood, for “the land of the free and the home of the brave!”
Reply to “reply to no mortal code”: Putin and the oligarchs (as well as the people) of Russia are neither Communists nor atheists. Though a dictatorship, communism was replaced with a coercive oliggachic dictatorship beholden to the Russian Orthodox Church, which supports all the horrible policies of the government, including the invasion of Ukraine.
T
The foundations of American government lie squarely in the 17th and 18th century European Enlightenment. The American founders were well versed in the writings of the philosophes, whose ideas influenced the shaping of the new country. Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, James Madison, and others took the brave steps of creating a government based on the Enlightenment values of liberty, equality, and a new form of justice. More than 200 years later, that government is still intact.
ushistory.com
That is true, the French Enlightenment strongly influenced that era, snd the Founding Fathers of our country. I think our Founders did a better job with America, than the French did, with their bloody French Revolution!
Regardless, the Communists tried to completely destroy religious faith in Russia, and to this day, Russians suffer from religious persecution– and Russian Patriarch Kirill is a hypocrite, who may be prevented from preaching true Christian beliefs. Krill is a puppet to Putin and Russian political leaders
I did not learn your so-called “version” of American history. I learned objective facts. How about you? Also, the so-called “personal beliefs” of great men who founded our country, are not for petty personal motives– their beliefs were educated, excellent, and for the greatest good of our new country. As for personal religious beliefs, they were intelligent and deeply dedicated to the rights of each person to decide for themselves on religious beluefs. We all owe tremendous respect to our Founding Fathers, and to pur great country, America. Many have shed their blood, for “the land of the free and the home of the brave. “
What do you think of the personal beliefs of Karl Marx, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Adolph Hitler, Daniel Ortega of Nicaragua, etc.– non-Christian political leaders, extremely violent, unjust, and dangerous. Your background, education, social and economic class, upbringing, family, religion, ethnic group, and culture (etc.) all shape your personal beliefs.
Why don’t we all pray for the conversion of sinners.
A person who is a practicing Christian, or who has a Christian upbringing or background, who cares about their country, and cares about their fellowman, usually desires the best for them. That would include, to help create a new country in which human dignity, respect, and justice for your fellowman are valued, and where life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, along with religious tolerance, are a part of that country’s ideals. It is a horrible thing, by contrast, to live in a country that is under an evil totalitarian or Communist dictator– like Nicaragua or China– where belief in God and religion are unwanted, despised, and outlawed, and where the people are not valued, mistreated, and persecuted unjustly. We owe our American Founders tremendous respect! Their fine achievements have been a shining light, for all the world to see, look up to, and hope for!
Why do you think that we need to create a Catholic nation?
Editor: I accidentally gave this post a thumbs down yesterday, but I did not mean to click on it at all.
But, everyone expects the government to oppose and prosecute the murder of 30-year-olds (not so much with babies and the very elderly or ill). Don’t you think that’s an appropriate function of government? Do you believe that abortion should be legal? Slavery? Just clarifying. I hope you and all readers here would work to protect preborn babies and their mothers from the violence of abortion, just as we work to protect others from murder.
I do not believe that abortion should be legal, if it is me you are asking. Nor slavery.
Another problem is what is the role of the elected?
Is it to faithfully represent the people of their district or is it to use the position to advance your own values?
We used to have representatives who felt that it was their job to inform themselves on the people’s opinions and how they wanted to be represented.
One used to send a postcard to every household once a year to ask how they felt on certain issues.
The new ones don’t do that.
They have town halls to explain their positions.
“Is it to faithfully represent the people of their district or is it to use the position to advance your own values?” Well, I suppose a Catholic could run for office on a distinctly pro-life position and communicate that clearly to his/her constituents, so if they elect this person they at least know what they are getting. The office holder could send that post card while at the same time educating the constituents on the pro-life position. Mind you, I have no mind for politics and don’t know if this post has any redeeming value, but here it is anyway.
Yes, I think that is possible. A candidate can say that.
This is always an interesting question. Must, yes, Must Representatives represent the wishes of their district? if they want to get reelected they might want to consider that. On the other hand, when they take office at the national level, at least, they do not take an oath to represent their district. They take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic. Their only oath is to the Constitution!
27% of the US congress is Catholic.
CINO on the Democrat side.
“27% of the US congress is Catholic.” What % is Catholic, and what % is Catholyc?
Congress: The problem is they are cafeteria Catholics. Our Lady of Good Success pray for them.
It has always been said, in every era– if you want a good Church– you must start with a good Pope. The Pope ought to begin excellent worldwide programs of catechesis, excellent seminaries, universities, and Catholic grade schools and high schools, all teaching the same thing– the authentic Catholic Faith. All priests, nuns, schoolteachers, etc., should take the Oath of Fidelity– or a similar oath– and should be good, practicing Catholics. We do not need worldly politics– we need a good American populace, well-formed in basic Judeo-Christian beliefs and Biblically-based morality– the 10 Commandments, etc.– like our ancestors, who settled and formed America. Catholic and Protestant churches– and even Jewish synagogues– used to form their congregations very thoroughly in religious and moral teachings– all Biblically-based. Americans used to believe in God, and take religion and morality very seriously. Then, if you have basically good and decent citizens, familiar with basic Biblical teachings (Catholic, Protestant or Jewish)– you will have a a country with a good and decent, basic religious and moral understanding and framework, to start with. I never agreed with the misplaced, secular emphasis on social justice and politics, of the 1960s and post-Conciliar era. Before that, Americans relied on authentic religious teachings, from their upbringing, to apply to society’s problems– with the Bible in mind, to help fix these problems — not substitutions of secular, cheap, Godless social and political concepts. Even AA relied on God, Christ, or a “Higher Power” (pick one, according to your beliefs) for help for alcoholics. Morality was basic, very solidly taught and believed in. If you sinned, you would never dare to say that you were “right” (as sinful 1960s hippies and liberal-leftists today, do) — you knew you had done wrong– and admitted it! Yes, it was a sin, if you cheated on an exam, falsified documents, embezzled money, told lies, committed adultery, committed sinful premarital sex, read books or saw films of filthy pornography, spoke or wrote filthy obscenities, committed filthy gay pervert sex acts, etc. etc. We had chaplains in the military and in Congress, in the White House, etc. — and prayers before sports events, prayers at political party gatherings, and at presidential inaugurations, prayers before important civic meetings and school board meetings, school prayer, Nativity plays in schools at Christmas, and Bible verses that all could relate to (such as the “Golden Rule” taught by Christ, found in St. Matthew 7:12) were commonly referred to. This was all a part of our American culture– and should still be, today! Our clerical leaders used to be highly respected, and everyone listened to them. A group of Catholic priests, Protestant ministers, and Jewish rabbis– all could get together, and go down to City Hall, and pressure them to fix terrible social evils, and immoral situations, that were badly injuring and hurting people. And it would get done! That is a part of everyday work, of good religious leaders! Let’s see them once again fill this important role!
I have never heard it said that if you want a good Church, you must start with a good Pope.
That concept is a total renunciation of the Holy Catholic Church.
The Pope does not start worldwide programs of catechesis, schools and all the other things. That is the job of the bishops.
That used to be a common saying, long before your time, no doubt. The truth is– whoever is the pope, has the authority to guide the Church in the way he sees fit. And implement things that he feels is best. For example, Pope St. John XXIII decided to have a Vatican II. And he did! So, start with a good Pope, to make a good Church. He has all the authority– not you. Laymen have no authority, by Canon Law. It all belongs to the clergy– with the pope at the top. Same thing in the military, in the Chain of Command. Perhaps you are familiar with that.
I don’t know what to say to something so reductive.
In very simple words, the Catholic Church has a hierarchical structure, much like the military, along with the “Chain of Comnand” from the Pope on down. The Pope orders something, and all must follow it. In Vatican II, there is supposed to be more collegiality, and more collaborative decision -making. And some decisions are supposed to be left to individual judgment.
Reply to, God love you.
I know you are trying but that is only kinda sorta how it works.
The Pope cannot order people to pray the Rosary.
He can’t order people to do and not do things.
There are things that he can do and things he cannot do.
Ordering people around is not his job.
One would be wise to obey the Pope but it is required on some things and not others.
I was not talking about a pope giving orders for silly things. I was talking about the pope giving great big orders– as they always have done, especially in pre-Conciliar days– for great, big important things! For example– Pope St. John XXIII gave the orders to have a Second Vatican Council– and all the world’s bishops were to attend it.
Speaking of authority, and the Chain of Command– I once worked at a military medical clinic. You had to be very careful, putting military medical patients with certain doctors, psychiatrists, and other medical personnel. They did not want to be seen by anyone of lower rank than them. There was also some tension regarding officers and enlisted personnel. And watch out for retired military officers, to use their former rank, prior to retirement, when addressing them. Whatever the military “top dog” says, goes– even if you disagree, or don’t like their decisions, big or small– or if their decisions seem irrational. Very similar to the Catholic Church. If the Pope says, “we are now going to have the Synod on Synodality, and invite Jesuit Fr. James Martin, LGBT activists, (etc )– whatever he says, goes. Just wait ’till the Vatican issues the new “Pachamama Mass.” And no Latin Tridentine Masses– the Pope hates that. And so it goes. In Vatican II, there was supposed to be more collegiality, more collaboration, among the Pope and his bishops inviting more lay participation, too.
If you are going to websites that tell you there is a Pachamama Mass, stop going there.
The Pope does not hate the TLM.
Yes, the Pope can call a Synod. They have them often.
If you are going to websites that criticize that, that tell you that the Synod is about changing church teaching or making gay sex ok, please get away from those.
No, I do not go to any radical websites for any information– too biased and opinionated. The Pope himself has expressed a strong dislike for the old Latin Tridentine Mass, and has expressed interest in an Amazon-type Mass, which includes the Pachamama, which he introduced to us a few years ago, with his ceremony with the Pachamama statues or idols, in the Vatican Gardens. It was reported in the Vatican News, that a group of Latin American bishops recently submitted a proposed write-up of an “Amazonian”-type of Mass, to the Holy See. If such a Mass is approved someday by the Pope, it will be issued by the Holy See in a Missal. And you can attend this form of Mass, to fulfill your Sunday and Holy Day obligation.
Yes they may add an Amazon-rite Mass. It does not have a Pachamama.
We are not going to keep going over the stupid “Pachamama scandal.”
People believe what they want to believe.
My opinion is that you should be a better Catholic than to bear false witness against God’s Holy Church and His Pope.
False witness, do not lie about the Pope. Simply look at what he says and does, objectively. He does what he does, he says what he says. Observe, listen, be honest and truthful. And don’t lie about it. Use your brain.
The Mexican Bishops’ Conference proposed to the Vatican an adaptation of the Mass for Mexico’s “original” indigenous peoples– principally, the Mayans. This adaptation would include Mayan cultural liturgical practices. Other Latin American bishops’ groups have proposed similar Masses, with cultural liturgical use of the Amazonians’ Pachamama. Best to keep up and stay informed on such issues, whether you like it or not, agree or disagree. Makes no difference. Some of these indigenous peoples may immigrate to the United States, also, and then a bishop of a Diocese may have to regularly schedule one of their Masses fior them.
None of this is true
None– No. All of this is true, all of this is current news in the Catholic Church. You can read about it all on the Vatican website.
It’s hard to know what you mean. Do you mean the above comment isn’t true? Or all the comments above you aren’t true?
The Congregation for Caholic Education, in the Roman Curia, used to set the norms and criteria for Catholic education. Pope Francis changed all of this, placing Catholic education in his new Dicastery of Culture and Education. The bishops, long ago, used to follow the Pope and Vatican’s dictates– and still basically do, but have less authority than before. In the pre-Conciliar era, you could take your family to Mass, or send your child to Catholic school, anywhere on the planet– and it all was basically the same.
That expression would not be said by a Catholic.
Long ago, we were taught how the Catholic Church was set up as the State Religion of Rome. Because it was now the State Religion, it took on a very different way of operating, than the ways of the earlier Christians. A State Religion is an arm of the Governnent, and is run by the Government, along with State-approved religious authorities. The role of the Pope became similar to a monarch, in authority– of both religion and State. The site of the Vatican was once a place of the Roman pagan State religion, along with their pagan practices, including witchcraft and divination. After Rome fell, the Catholic Church continued on, in the Eastern as well as the Western parts of the former Roman Empire, and helped stabilize civilization.
Oh– sorry, I goofed! The State religion of Rome, Christianity, continued on in the Western part of the former Empire, and grew, and helped keep civilization alive, during the Dark Ages.
Actually, several groups of Latin American bishops have submitted proposals for an Anazonian Mass, to the Holy See. Most recently, the Mexican Bishops’ Conference submitted a proposal for “indigenous” adaptations for a rite of the Mass for “indigenous” people — the “original ” people of Mexico.
Oh– the area of the Vatican and St. Peter’s Basilica, was a Roman Circus, and a cemetery, in the days of ancient Rome. Nero and Caligula held four-horse chariot races there, and many other violent spectacles of entertainment. When people were executed, or killed in the entertainment spectacles– they were buried in the nearby cemetery. Many Christians were killed there, and St. Peter was crucified upside-down, and buried there. I was also once told, that pagan rituals were once held there, with magicians, divinations, etc. All forms of pagan worship in the Roman Empire were banned in 392 A.D., by the Emperor Theodosius.
Shortly after the Roman Emperor Theodosius banned all forms of pagan worship, in 392 A.D., the Olympic Games were ended, in about 394 A.D., as they were connected to pagan ceremonies. The Olympic Games were finally started again, 1,503 years later, in Athens, Greece, in 1896.
Or maybe you are not Catholic, I cannot tell.
If you are not Catholic, then I urge you to learn the Catholic Faith.
If you are Catholic, I urge you to obey the Catholic Faith.
If you are Catholic– stop wasting your time. Best to get a thorough education in the Catholic Faith from a good Catholic school with good teachers. Before the Second Vatican Council, all Catholic universities required of all students, to take a full two years of courses in the Catholic Faith, at the college level, along with all of their other subjects. This has all changed.
2 years is a good start especially if you had a good education at home or Catholic school in high school/grade school.
But you need to keep educating yourself.
Especially if you are on the Internet.
You cannot believe everybody that says they are Catholic, especially when they are challenging Church teaching or Church authorities.
Learning about your faith and growing in it is a lifelong process. Your spiritual life is very important. I am probably much older than you, and have only a few years left. I am not of the “computer generation,” like most of you. The Internet is very poor, compared to good books. It is also filled with tons and tons of deliberately-concocted and controlled liberal-leftist-slanted errors, half-truths and lies. It is a propaganda tool for the secular, anti-Christian, extremely immoral, Godless, hippie kids in Silicon Valley, who invented it. Best to read good books by good authors.
If you are going to lie on the internet, you are going to get busted.
Busted– best to get a good Catholic education from good teachers. A long tine ago, before the Second Vatican Council, you could only teach the truths of the Catholic Faith– or else you would indeed be “busted,” by the Catholic Church– and could no longer teach. Today, all of that has changed.
You’re kidding, right? Without lies there wouldn’t be an internet.
Lies, you are sadly correct! The Internet is very poor, filled with tons of deliberately-concocted and controlled liberal-leftist-slanted errors, half-truths and lies. It is a propaganda tool for the secular, anti-Christian, extremely immoral, Godless, hippie kids in Silicon Valley, who invented it. Best to read good books by good authors.
I think it would be great, if the Catholic Church would again have the “Imprimatur” for books, the old Legion of Decency for movies, and a similar tool for the Internet. Before the computer era, it used to be a crime with stiff punishments, to call or write a person, using obscenities or threats, or to send obscene pornographic material to them, by mail. The Internet is much worse! It is badly in need of control– or to be shut down completely. It is potentially a terribly destructive force in any society. The Internet is often badly managed by extremely immature liberal-leftists, to propagandize their own beliefs and agendas.
As long as the Pope has a tolerance for the non-Catholic behavior of Nancy Pelosi and President Biden, exceeding that of local bishops, genuine Catholic values are not going to be found in the public schools or square.
It is quite shocking, that the Mayor of San Francisco, London Breed, and Gov. Gavin Newsom are so secularized and morally illiterate, that they seem to justify stealing, as a way to extend mercy to the poor and underprivileged! California has a horrible law, allowing thefts up to a certain point, with no penalties. That is so wrong—- and it cultivates criminals! Stealing is wrong. It is a crime. And it is a sin! There is no justification for stealing!
If you are having problems, and suffering with dope addiction and poverty, you should be instructed by City officials, to come down to the City offices, and they will help you get into good programs for food, clothing, shelter, dope rehab, and all other necessary services. The churches all should lead the way, with lots of good religious and moral training.
Actually, the SF Mayor and Governor, both liberal-leftist Democrats, have both expressed a misplaced, “bleeding-heart liberal” false compassion for criminals, and a desire to completely change the criminal laws and prison system. Big mistake. There is a line between a felony and a misdemeanor, and as the jails are so crowded with criminals in California, the line between a shoplifting misdemeanor and felony was moved up to $950– nearly $1,000. Such terrible laws make California very unsafe for good and decent, honest store customers, and completely discourages good and decent businesses from coming to California— a state which clearly does not support them. Also, it encourages businesses to raise their prices, because of extreme losses, due to shoplifting. This hurts customers, and hurts the economy. The way to lessen and discourage crime, and empty jails– is to support a good, honest, decent populace. The state should have good civic and clerical leaders, ready to teach and inculcate morality, and a good moral conscience, in churches and schools, and should strongly encourage and support good, Traditional Marriage and family life, and enforce good laws, to strongly protect our communities. All types of bad behavior and immorality should be discouraged– and punished– by parents, teachers, schools, churches, police, etc. Abp. Cordileone was correct, in demanding that the five criminals who vandalized and destroyed a statue of St. Juniper Serra, at St. Raphael Church in San Rafael, be prosecuted sternly by the Marin County D.A., , as they committed a serious felony, at a church! You must never go and vandalize a church, and destroy its property and sacred items, for any personal reasons. The immature, liberal-leftist D.A. reduced the charges and penalties to a mere misdemeanor— which was wrong.
Before Vatican II, our Church had tons of power, behind Catholic politicians in political offices, in all countries inhabited by Catholics. Discipline and obedience to Church authority was a must. It always bothers me to know that! Mandated discipline and obedience to Church teaching, is desperately needed, today! Our Church used to be a huge thing to deal with, a source of faith and morality for all to look up to– and reckon with– like it or not– you had a very strong religious authority to deal with, in the Catholic Church! And she told you right from wrong– and meant business! Lots of wayward Catholics– and others, too– who wrangled with the Catholic Church, trying to get their way on sin— got badly burned. Did the Church say “No abortion, that’s baby murder?!” Watch out– they meant business! Yikes! You’re warned– and finally– excommunicated! Period. People today, are no longer used to a Church and a society where right is definitely right– and wrong is definitely wrong– and you are forced to grow up strong, and live right– and be honest about sin.
Morality is objective– it is not an “individual choice.” People need discipline and obedience to religious teachings, inculcated and required by the Church — or they can really destroy an entire society! And they have! Christ taught with authority, but also with love. He was never “mean.” Without both love and discipline, and firmness with sin, by religious leaders– a Church and society will fall apart.
Maybe in your little corner of the world…
The Catholic Church has been despised and mocked as long as I can remember.
Even by Catholics.
Morality? Ask one of the children of priests about that.
Despised? Yes! Sinners despised the Catholic Church, all through the centuries. And the Saints loved the Church. Christ predicted that– He was killed by those who despised Him and His teachings. Christ’s true teachings are hard, and require lots of maturity. Today’s Church and pope are very weak, in preaching, teaching and mandating Christ’s Truth.
I’ll explain it for everyone. FrancisChurch is all about creating permission structures for the Church to change her teachings without making people feel like they are compromising the faith or betraying their long-held beliefs. The “personally opposed, but I can’t force anyone else” line with regard to abortion was an early example of creating a permission structure that enabled Catholics to support abortion while also being against abortion. See how it works? The big push for a permission structure right now concerns women’s ordination and LGBT normalization. For the LGBTs, it’s all about being welcoming and inclusive and loving. Sell it that way, then you’ve given permission to accept gayness while also being against gayness. “Personally opposed, but I’ve got to be welcoming and inclusive and loving because that’s what Christ taught and wants.” I’ve got it all figured out.
“He continued, “So their lives aren’t informed by the faith. Even though they identify as Catholic, the way they live their life, their priorities, their instincts — even to some extent, perhaps, their values — are influenced more by the secular society than their Catholic faith. And I think that has caused a weakening in terms of the social influence that the church should have and trying to contribute to the common good.””
I believe the secular influence is so pervasive, ubiquitous, all-encompassing, that a weak 15 minute homily once a week has no chance to change the cultural landscape. Catholic faith and practice needs to involve the laity more comprehensively on a daily basis so that we eat, drink, and sleep Catholicism. We laity need a life analogous to the monks but suitable for our distinct calling. I don’t know what this would look like but if daily Mass is not feasible daily prayer several times a day — along the lines of the Divine Office– would be an idea. Inculcate a love of Scripture and different forms of prayer. Evangelicals often do a better job of this than we do and it wouldn’t hurt to learn from them. I’m not sure where I’m going with this but the Church has to get going to challenge the secular poisons infecting all of society.
Cordileone kind of looks like “Mini Me” from the Austin Powers movies. Am I wrong?
Ordinarily a fan of Cordileone but here I have to take issue. Directing criticism at lay Catholics when the US bishops known exactly where priests come from. Moms that wear veils, Novus Ordo masses celebrated with music that doesn’t sound like soap commercial jingles, Latin at every point where it is allowed, all male altar servers…it isn’t rocket science. He should direct his comments to his colleagues that chase these people to SSPX and leave us with the poor souls that are gay with no where to go but the priesthood…bishops that keep Courage under the radar so as to not offend their gay priests….With all due respect, Abp C….spare us….look to your brother bishops for the problem…there are plenty of faithful Catholic families just begging for the opportunity to glorify God by their lives if only allowed to do so…
I recall a conversation I had with a Catholic teenager around 1979. Somewhere in the conversation the subject of hell came up, and he declared there was no hell. I asked him how he knew that,and he told me the priest of his parish told him so. That priest was relatively young which made me wonder about his formation. I have an unverifiable (?) suspicion that priests compromised by their sexual activities are prone to believe this about hell. It is no small matter that section 297 of Amoris Laetitia reads:
It is a matter of reaching out to everyone, of needing to help each person find his or her proper way of participating in the ecclesial community and thus to experience being touched by an “unmerited, unconditional and gratuitous”mercy. No one can be condemned for ever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel!
One could deduce such language was once communicated to this young priest and from him to this teenager. Further, the acknowledged “ghostwriter” of Amoris Laetitia, Archbishop Victor Manuel Fernandez, now Prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, apparently leans towards universalism as seen from a 1995 article where he stated: “I rely firmly upon the truth that all are saved.” This tendency toward universalism in the clergy, such as it is, has to have broad implications for the life of the Church. Could the (mal) formation of priests, leading to malformed bishops, be a central problem that Cordileone is avoiding?
Naturally, if someone
flaunts an objective sin as if it were part of the
Christian ideal, or wants to impose something
other than what the Church teaches, he or she
can in no way presume to teach or preach to
others; this is a case of something which separates from the community (cf. Mt 18:17). Such
a person needs to listen once more to the Gospel message and its call to conversion.
Amoris Laetitia 297 (exact same paragraph(
He is not denying hell by saying that no one can be condemned forever. He is talking about human condemnation.
“Amoris Laetitia 297 (exact same paragraph)
He is not denying hell by saying that no one can be condemned forever. He is talking about human condemnation.”
True enough in context; you are correct. But the words referred to a different context also have meaning. Whether Pope Francis’ view of hell is informed by these same words is a matter to be studied, to see if they in any way apply. If Archbishop Victor Manuel Fernandez still holds the view opined in 1995, his choice as head of the DDF might be telling.
Just because somebody named the idea that all humans will go to Heaven “universalism” does not mean that when the CCC says “the universality of salvation in Christ” it is adopting that idea. (CCC402)
You have to know the Faith.
Don’t get so caught up in the BS on the internet.
All things glorify God. We may not understand how. You glorify God by obedience, by submission, by not submitting, by being doers of the Word.
You glorify God by x and by not-x? That’s a contradiction.
If all things glorify God, then I don’t need to do anything differently because whatever I’m already doing, I’m glorifying God, even if I’m sinning.
Everyone goes to heaven. Hooray. (I would have used exclamation points there, but the webmaster edits them out.)
That does not mean that everyone goes to Heaven.
Why do people always interpret things wrongly?
Hell glorifies God’s justice.
The church, by reason of her role and competence, is not identified with any political community nor is it tied to any political system. It is at once the sign and the safeguard of the transcendental dimension of the human person.
The Church and the political community in their own fields are autonomous and independent from each other. Yet both, under different titles, are devoted to the personal and social vocation of the same men. The more that both foster sounder cooperation between themselves with due consideration for the circumstances of time and place, the more effective will their service be exercised for the good of all. For man’s horizons are not limited only to the temporal order; while living in the context of human history, he preserves intact his eternal vocation. The Church, for her part, founded on the love of the Redeemer, contributes toward the reign of justice and charity within the borders of a nation and between nations. By preaching the truths of the Gospel, and bringing to bear on all fields of human endeavor the light of her doctrine and of a Christian witness, she respects and fosters the political freedom and responsibility of citizens.
(#76 Gaudium et spes)
All Christians must be aware of their own specific vocation within the political community. It is for them to give an example by their sense of responsibility and their service of the common good. In this way they are to demonstrate concretely how authority can be compatible with freedom, personal initiative with the solidarity of the whole social organism, and the advantages of unity with fruitful diversity. They must recognize the legitimacy of different opinions with regard to temporal solutions, and respect citizens, who, even as a group, defend their points of view by honest methods. Political parties, for their part, must promote those things which in their judgement are required for the common good; it is never allowable to give their interests priority over the common good.
Great care must be taken about civic and political formation, which is of the utmost necessity today for the population as a whole, and especially for youth, so that all citizens can play their part in the life of the political community. Those who are suited or can become suited should prepare themselves for the difficult, but at the same time, the very noble art of politics,(8) and should seek to practice this art without regard for their own interests or for material advantages. With integrity and wisdom, they must take action against any form of injustice and tyranny, against arbitrary domination by an individual or a political party and any intolerance. They should dedicate themselves to the service of all with sincerity and fairness, indeed, with the charity and fortitude demanded by political life
Gaudium et spes #75
John Paul II in Christifideles Laici has a section on politics #42
President Joe Biden is a perfect example of a Catholic who is weak in public life.