The following comes from a May 15 posting on the Trial Insider.
In mid-April we wrote that a three-judge appellate panel appeared to struggle during arguments with the potentially far-reaching implications of a constitutional challenge to California’s ban on gay conversion therapy. It appears they are still struggling.
The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel, in an order issued Tuesday, asked both sides to submit new briefs on whether the court should substitute its view of the law and application of the Constitution for that of the trial judge, or limit itself to the existing question of whether the trial judge overstepped his authority.
The three-judge panel was reviewing a free speech challenge to California’s ban on licensed health professionals’ use of therapies designed to make gay and lesbian teenagers straight.
Under the terms of California’s law, no one under the age of 18 may be submitted to gay conversion therapy, which relies on talking to a therapist.
Plaintiffs include parents who assert their parental rights are under attack, as well as licensed professional counselors and professional counseling associations, including the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality and the American Association of Christian Counselors.
The appeal also includes one 15-year-old, identified only as John Doe, who is receiving counseling and wants to continue.
The three judges said both sides should discuss whether the evidence relevant to assessing the constitutionalty of SB1172 is limited to the legislative record or includes evidence newly submitted to the court.
They gave both sides 14 days to respond.
Case: Pickup v. Brown, No. 12-1768, Welch v. Brown, No. 13-15023
To read original posting, click here.
Since when does any Constitution support Judges writing and adopting their own laws?
If the ‘left’ has freedom of speech, should it be denied to the ‘right’?
Both the US Constitution and the California Constitution can be found on the internet. To follow this story, please read them.
The Constitutions – are your legal rights.
Judges, justices, et al need to be accountable. When they jerk the Constitution around, they need to be put in the dock on treason charges, and on a conspiratorial level. If they can experiment with destruction of the Constitution, then the public should experiment with them in view of anti-tyranny laws in the Bill of Rights and Constitution.
Inability to interpret constitutional law does not constitute treason…but I agree Skai…they should be formally sanctioned
“inability to interpret constitutional law” means that these judges should be kicked off the bench.
Pray away the gay is a lie and is not constitutional. Being gay is not uncontitutional in this country. It is also not a doisorder. That had been a fact for three plus decades.
You can believe 2 guys committing sodomy not disordered but you would be WRONG…….
I believe I owe the gay community an apology for my study making unproven claims of the efficacy of reparative therapy. I also apologize to any gay person who wasted time and energy undergoing some form of reparative therapy because they believed that I had proven that reparative therapy works with some “highly motivated” individuals.
Robert Spitzer. M.D.
Emeritus Professor of Psychiatry,
Google Dr.Robert Spitzer. That should be of some help.
joan, gay is evil. You know it deep down.
This is not a difficult case, except for the leading lights that sit on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. The issue before the Court does not turn (or should not, anyway) on the scope of evidence. Rather, the Court needs to examine only the evident impact of the law. The Ninth Circuit completely missed in its review of Judge Walker’s Proposition 8 decision, and may do so again here. The law is politically generated by homosexual movement supporters that cannot abide anything that suggests that their “preference” is other than normal and is not to be celebrated. Evidence as to its scientific basis and support is irrelevant to what the law itself violates, including free speech, due process, and equal protection. Competent doctors and consultants should be free to seek methods to control (reverse if you will) homosexual sexual impulses, if that is the free choice of the patient. The CA legislature has no role in this. Curiously, this is precisely what the same legislators say should be their role in a woman’s choice to have an abortion. (A topic where there are certainly legitimate issues for debate.) The apparent position of the Ninth Circuit gives far too much credibility to the legislative act taken, which suggests the likely outcome of this case.
“Competent doctors and consultants should be free to seek methods to control (reverse if you will) homosexual sexual impulses . . . ” That’s exactly the issue. “Competent” doctors and consultants would not seek such methods. The law seeks to protect minors from the incompetent.
The APA passed a 2009 resolution that stated, in part, “the American Psychological Association concludes that there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation” and “the American Psychological Association concludes that the benefits reported by participants in sexual orientation change efforts can be gained through approaches that do not attempt to change sexual orientation.”
God is not a member of the APA, Steve.
Not a matter of competence, peter, but of faith in God.
In a review of published studies comparing homosexual and heterosexual samples on psychological tests, Gonsiorek (1982) found that, although some differences have been observed in test results between homosexuals and heterosexuals, both groups consistently score within the normal range. Gonsiorek concluded that “Homosexuality in and of itself is unrelated to psychological disturbance or maladjustment. Homosexuals as a group are not more psychologically disturbed on account of their homosexuality” (Gonsiorek, 1982, p. 74; see also reviews by Gonsiorek, 1991; Hart, Roback, Tittler, Weitz, Walston & McKee, 1978; Riess, 1980)
It definitely depends on what standards you base maladjustment on doesn’t it, Steve? When you live in a nihilistic, amoral world where there are no boundaries, then just about any behavior is acceptable and normal. As society continues to splinter into anarchy, more ‘pseudo-pscho-air-heads make all sorts of claims with impunity because who are WE to doubt what YOU say…it’s your word against mine, right? Trying to discuss anything with people whose values, beliefs and tenets are based on ‘discoveries’ made in the last 20 years or so would be like trying to make a house with jello. One wonders what you’ll be espousing in the next twenty years…but then again, maybe not.
St. Christopher, you might be more persuasive, if you really cared about the constitution. However, you don’t. All you care about is what the catholic church says on the issue. Why pretend to care about the constitution?
Those who are morally sick, will never without complete repentance, admit that they are so, and they will suffer the Eternal consquences. That include so called Legislators, Judges, Ministers, and Priests.
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Wayne Besen, author of “Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth,” commended Dr. Spitzer’s retraction in an interview with the Huffington Post. Read about Dr Robert Spizer’s retraction of his study. homosexual orientation can’t be reversed.
I think I’d rather watch dust fall on my fireplace mantle than read anything you recommend. Nothing personal, but one wonders what you’re doing contributing to a Catholic website. Your stilted and utterly predictable points of view don’t lend themselves to debate. You just popped in to harrangue and drop pompous blops of opinions on our wee little heads. Fortunately, we’ve been innoculated with the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, fortified with the Word of God, strengthened with the CCC and blessed with the fullness of the Holy Trinity, amen, amen and amen. May our Blessed Mother pray for you brother. May you someday seek God’s Will in your life. Don’t be afraid to ask God to show you what is true and real. He will, if only you’ll humble yourself and ask. ‘What benefit will it be to you if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?”, asks our Savior Jesus Christ.
You’re still making the sin of sodomy a matter of opinion, excluding God’s opinion, Steve. You’re also flying in the face of St Paul who informs us that some Catholics were past tense once homosexuals but no longer are.
Gays can now marry in Cali!…what say you all