The following comes from a Dec. 3 story in the Orange County Register.
A donor who asked not to be named has donated $20 million to the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange to help fund its multimillion-dollar renovation and transformation of the 34-acre campus that was once home to Robert A. Schuller’s Crystal Cathedral.
The donation, which will be paid off within seven years, is the largest gift the diocese has received outside of land donations, said spokesman Ryan Lilyengren.
“I am blessed to offer my faithful and financial support to the diocese’s efforts to restore and renovate the campus and make its vision for the Christ Cathedral a reality,” the private donor, an Orange County resident, said in a statement released by the diocese. “I hope this gift will inspire other donors in our community to give as well.”
Church officials had approached the donor, said Tim Busch, the co-chairman of the capital campaign committee. He and the Most Rev. Kevin Vann, the bishop of Orange County, spent a year talking to the donor about giving the money.
The $20 million is the first donation toward the second phase’s $60 million goal; this phase targets large donations and will be spent on campus renovations. During phase one, meant for various diocese projects including the campus renovations, the diocese received more than $85 million from about 24,000 parishioners.
“This is one of the most important things going on in the Catholic world and America,” Busch said of the campus improvements. “And we think this is another milestone for us. We see the path to completing the funding in the next 12 to 18 months.”
The $20 million does not have any specific uses attached to it, but it must be used for the renovation of the campus, which, at more than 50 years old, is showing its age and needs to be altered to adhere more closely to Catholic tradition.
The campus renovation project includes, among other things, the recently completed upgrade to the 13-story Tower of Hope, and a years-long overhaul of the 78,000-square-foot glass cathedral now called Christ Cathedral. The project will cost as much as $113 million.
Construction is scheduled to begin in early 2015….
To read the original story, click here.
To the donor, thank you and God bless you for your generosity.
This is chockingly bad news. Where do they get these kind of bishops? The Crystal Cathedral is a Protestant piece of architecture that cannot be reworked as a Faithful Catholic Church. The plans that were announced are a disaster, unless you believe that the Presbyterians have a channel to the Master Builder in Heaven.
Dunking for baptism, hiding the Tabernacle, no sense of Catholic art, or Mary, of anything else but the happy, sappy sing-a-longs that many, many masses now contain. You will not likely hear much Catholic music here either, as the apostate-type architecture usually brings with it a host of other New Church evils.
Do you really think that its parishioners will be taught much here? Any sense of “sin” and the “need for repentance”? Why is Orange County looking more like Chicago all the time? Maybe Abp. Cupich can come in and give a sermon or two on topics like, “Giving Christ’s body and blood (out of the slurping cup) to abortionists, fornicators, and active homosexuals: A Loving Catholic Pastoral Moment”; stuff like that.
But, you have to hand it to Bishop Vann — he knows how to work big money over! Way to go Bishop Vann. This will get you large points at the Vatican. I am sure that Cardinal Dolan will soon call for pointers. Maybe he can join you in an Ecumenical “Coming Out” Party for all locals. You know, dress up the the old Crystal Cathedral in Rainbow Flags — welcome the gifts!! (As we all will soon have to do after the 2015 Synod; learn to “smell the sheep” as Francis said.)
St. Chris, please provide a link to any OFFICIAL Church teaching that says a non-Catholic Church or other building may not be reworked into a Catholic Church.
I have never heard of any such teaching.
Although the glass Cathedral is not of interest to me since there is no visible Tabernacle in the main area, and there is no place for those who wish to kneel while receiving Holy Communion –
that does not mean that a building cannot be reworked into a Catholic Church.
Try to be more accurate.
Whoa Nellie, St. Christopher!
The former Crystal Cathedral is being fully renovated into a Roman Catholic Cathedral, Christ Cathedral. Let’s wait and see the fruits of renovation, both inside the Cathedral and without, before passing judgment.
Meanwhile, looking back in wonder upon the amazing history of the Church, various architectural forms have evolved to fashion authentic Roman Catholic houses of worship. Many reflect ethnic preferences. No doubt some parishioners were not happy with changes made iniitially but in time grew to accept them, for the love of God.
While growing up within a new suburban development, our family attended Mass within a temporary structure that had a low ceiling (bad acoustics) and modest furnishings until funding could be raised for a more traditional church structure. My faith not only survived that first structure but grew by leaps and bounds as my young heart looked to God with joy that I was not alone but worshippedwith many parishioners around me. The church was always crowded, but I never looked with dismay but with acceptance at the small structure that could have been designed by a Protestant for all I knew. And in those early days we often heard the cries or sounds of infants. The sporadic sounds, while at times distracting, helped turn my focus more on God as an inward smile formed at a happy memory that I too had cried during Mass..
Down through the age the old and the new continue to coexist peacefully in God’s Kingdom.
Mark – I consider myself pretty orthodox when it comes to my Catholic faith. But I am very pleased with the acquisition of the former Crystal Cathedral property and am definitely waiting to see what the upgrades and transitions will be on the campus and inside the sanctuary. Does anyone remember when Rev. Schuler and his wife had an audience with Pope John II before the Crystal was built? I believe the story goes that Rev. Schuler brought a model of the property and structure to be built to the pontiff and asked for his blessing on the venture. Pope John Paul II stated after his blessing that it would always remain a place of worship. Prophetic.
“Mark”: You sentiments and personal history are good to read. But, you are wrong regarding the “transformation” of the Crystal Cathedral into a proper Catholic Church. Yes, that is what is said, but the plans are now public and they are not good.
You see, Vatican II “implementation” is, in most ways, like a political revolution. All things “old” must be changed. The Catholic Church has its own Mao-like clerics that insist that virtually all prayers, devotions, and the like be altered. Changing the Mass, of course, was mandatory, and the resulting Novus Ordo is simply terrible, reflecting the worship of man and not a unified time of devotion of all Catholics to Christ.
And, to house this new Mass the Church had to change. No more facing East, no more kneeling to receive communion, no more common language, or music, or anything. Popular choice in everything became the norm. Devotional beauty, altars, all that have given way to plain, unadorned, non-Catholic “worship spaces” that are “presided over” by a priest (called, in most churches, a “presider”). The Catholics in charge will certainly say that the bad changes planned for the Crystal Cathedral make it “Catholic” but that is like the Soviets saying that they had a “democracy” because all people “voted”. The choice is made for you, like in George Orwell’s “Nineteen Eighty-Four”.
St. Chris, you are not accurate again.
The glass building could have been reconfigured into anything that the former Bishop or new Bishop approved, included which way Priests faced during Mass, the location of the Tabernacle, and if it had some altar rails./kneelers for those who wished to kneel while receiving Holy Communion.
You would be more accurate in stating the design is not according to your opinion.
Personally, if I had the money to donate it would have been contingent upon some of these things.
“Dottie” thank you for your correction. You are right that it might have been possible, although it is likely that the reconstruction to make the Crystal Cathedral into a true Catholic Church would have been too costly, and perhaps architecturally not really possible. Certainly the current design is simply awful, and not really Catholic, as many have said.
And, “Bob One” is wrong to argue that the Church is trying to place attention on the altar. The movement away from ad Orientum masses toward versus populum is to create a chatty “meal” and not the sacrifice of Calvary. The altar is completely irrelevant in the N.O., it could be, and often was until the objections became too great, a moveable card table or portable table.
Bob’s story is nice, that people went to Mass in a gym, and then built a church. But, not too long ago, many Catholic Churches were termed “communion halls” and the mass a “communal meal”. Remember that poll after poll finds “Catholics” not knowing much about the “Real Presence” of Christ in the confected Eucharist. If people did believe, would anyone place the Tabernacle in a closet, or dare to take the Host in their filthy hands, like a potato chip or a cookie, or slobber in a communal cup, or feel arrogant enough to receive communion standing up?
No, these are other reasons that the liturgy is so important to Liberals — it is a way to stop belief in something other than the glory of Man.
You see, Vatican II “implementation” is, in most ways, like a political revolution. All things “old” must be changed. The Catholic Church has its own Mao-like clerics that insist that virtually all prayers, devotions, and the like be altered. Changing the Mass, of course, was mandatory, and the resulting Novus Ordo is simply terrible, reflecting the worship of man and not a unified time of devotion of all Catholics to Christ.
I am sorry but that just simply is not true. You are entitled to hold any opinion that you want. but these are statements which misrepresent the Lord’s Church.
You can think the Mass is terrible but it is not the worship of man. It is the offering of the God-Man Jesus Christ to His Father. There is no desire to change things that are old-in fact, there is a resurgence of interest in things that are traditional. I wonder where you go to Church, maybe there you have one of the old priests who sometimes have their own ideas about things.
“Anonymous” you are clearly wrong. The Novus Ordo is not the “Lord’s Church” except to Liberals in the Vatican. Tradition is more “popular” because people cannot believe its beauty and power, and the True Faith it reflects.
Try to look behind the Protestantized Mass and see what is happening to the Church. The N.O. most often presents a smug priest sitting where the Tabernacle should be. He chats through the Mass, then spends a good deal of time hugging everyone in the first five rows of the Mass, the hands out the Host in the filthy hands of anyone that cares to have it. No one is afraid of offending Christ by an unworthy reception of communion, because no one really believes in the Real Presence.
You also need to stop personalizing your criticism (“I wonder where you go to Church . . .”) as to all Liberals. Try to have something constructive to say, based on research, on thinking, on application of Catholic principles. It is very difficult to do this, given the little that the present Church gives out to support its wide ranging apostasy (“You must be obedient”). Merely saying “it is not true” does not defeat anything. You are in grave danger of becoming a de facto Mason; take care to find true Catholicism.
The N.O. most often presents a smug priest sitting where the Tabernacle should be. He chats through the Mass, then spends a good deal of time hugging everyone in the first five rows of the Mass, the hands out the Host in the filthy hands of anyone that cares to have it. No one is afraid of offending Christ by an unworthy reception of communion, because no one really believes in the Real Presence.
Once again, this is not true. You must not go to a Catholic Church. The priest does not sit where the tabernacle should be. They sit to the side of the altar. Priests do not chat during Mass. There are times such as the Homily when he speaks or sometimes at the end of Mass, he or another person will read announcements. He does not leave the altar except to receive the bread and wine from those who bring it up. (I have seen priests come off the altar at funerals to exchange the sign of Peace with the family of the deceased, though.) Communion in the hand is done-I do not know why you think people’s hands are filthy. Perhaps you just want to put people down. and yes, people believe in the Real Presence. I do not know anyone that does not. Since you did not say that you attend a Catholic Church and the things you say about the Catholic Church are so wrong, I will have to assume that you do not actually attend a Catholic Church.
Sorry, friend, but you are living in mouse’s world, not reality if you cannot understand the reality of the ongoing crises perverting the cheese.
It is true that in the USA Cardinal Joseph Bernardin (the same Bernardin who aided and abetted Priest child abusers) – as head of that USCCB at that time – got special INDULT permission from the Vatican to make certain changes. When people did not want to comply with standing to receive the Lord or did not want to handle the Lord because they did not have consecrated hands, Bernardin and his buddies refused them Holy Communion. Pure evil.
It took many years to expose their sins, but the Vatican did step in and tell people that the Bishops had no authority to make people stand rather than kneel or to make people receive in the hand.
These same Bishops did nothing to correct the abuses – when people started the Protestant holding of hands, and raising arms in the air into their actions. (If they turned themselves around it would look like the hokey pokey). This was never approved by the Vatican.
Read GIRM on the Vatican web site, and on the USCCB web site and you will still find abuses at most parishes in the USA – some by the Priests, and some by the people.
It is the abuses /disturbances / distractions at OF Masses causing the un-holiness, not the OF Mass itself.
Where was the praying of the rosary during mass approved by the vatican?
St. C, you again don’t get it! What has come about in church architecture in the past nearly 60 years are buildings wherein the center of “attention” is on the altar. It is suppose to be the center of the liturgy. A plain “table” on which to transform the bread and wine into the body, blood and divinity of our Lord. You see, where the Mass is said is not important. Our parish held Mass in the gym of a public school for nearly fifteen years, until it could afford to build a church. Yet, Mass was dignified, reverent and meaningful to those who attended, even for the late arrivals who had to sit in the bleachers. That parish just continued to grow and grow as people came from miles around. Being Catholic is not about buildings designed for the 15th century. It is about being Catholic.
Bob One, please give a link to an Official Church document that states ” What has come about in church architecture in the past nearly 60 years are buildings wherein the center of “attention” is on the altar.”
This is baloney, since that was done before 60 years ago as well.
Who needs a link? Just look at all the churches built in the last 50 years. The altar is the center of the church. In older churches the altar is way up front away from the people.
What??????
2 Timothy 4:3 Douay-Rheims Bible
“For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: ”
“You see, where the Mass is said is not important.” = Here is that time!
Yes, Bob One and that is precisely why many ex Catholics often ask a dissenting priest or an ex priest to marry them on the romantic breaking surf at the beach and many comply with the request because “It does not matter” in the eyes of those who seek to dismantle the Church. That is also why wolves in sheep’s clothing feel quite comfortable promoting the homosexual agenda to all brother priests while dismantling the Traditions of where and how and even WHO is invited to come to concelebrate the Mass. It doesn’t even matter if a Protestant minister like the one who was invited to St. Norbert’s and then receives Holy Communion and hands out Holy Communion. No pastor is ever going to pull such a bold stunt if he 1st feared offending God and secondly if he rightly feared a discipline from his bishop. The reason that there is NO honor fear or respect is precisely what Bob One just said. “Where the Mass is said is NOT important.” We are not talking about the necessity of having Mass being said in foxholes in wartime but we ARE talking about the spiritual warfare going on within the Church. The fox is in charge of the henhouse and the fox does not care what the henhouse looks like or where the henhouse is situated either. The fox’s primary goal is to ROB the nest.
“Catherine” — again, a powerful witness to Catholic liturgical truth. Thanks for speaking up on this.
Bob One, both before and after Mass the center of attention by all should be on the Tabernacle, not on the altar. Worshiping a table rather than God is idolatry.
Where is the Tabernacle – so that we ALL will worship before and after Mass, until Mass starts ?
You are certainly entitled to your opinion regarding the placement of the tabernacle or the decoration of a church. However, you state your opinion as though there are no other acceptable opinions, even though throughout history the tabernacle was not traditionally where you wanted it, and Bishops around the world have recognized theological and spiritual virtues in having a quieter, more solemn location for the tabernacle in other places. Thank you for your opinion, which I’m sure comes from a lifetime of sincere devotion, but please respect catholics who also have a lifetime of faith experience, who have another opinion.
“Your Fellow Catholic”: No. The phrase (actual originator unknown, it was not Lenin), “useful idiots” comes to mind.
You have been taught, wrongly, that the N.O. was like what the Church used to do in the third or fourth century, and that the TLM was a “Medieval” invention, with no true Catholic credentials. You continue to refuse to even concede that the TLM might, in fact, be the best way to worship our Lord and that the Church was so much better off when it followed in the footsteps of its historic leaders.
This is not a time or place for mere opinion. Zombie-Liberals love to say what you do! Well, it is just a matter of opinion, stuff like that. It is not, and you and the Zombies, know it. All Catholic Readers need to stop and think: why would you want to belong to any institution (or country) that rejects its own history — all of it — in favor of something developed to make it more attractive for prior disbelievers to all of a sudden decide to join? Who would want to join such a religion.
Bishops want to get rid of public display of the Tabernacle because they do not want to deal with the idea of the Real Presence. If Christ is really on the altar, then do you imagine that believers would simply walk up and demand a communion potato chip? No, they would (and should) be struck down by the generosity of Christ.
“…Bishops around the world have recognized theological and spiritual virtues in having a quieter, more solemn location for the tabernacle in other places.”
Catholics young and old,, those also with a lifetime’s ‘faith experience’ have understood for a long time that a more solemn location is what is required for the mass. The notion of relegating by negation the Church itself to beinga less than solemn location for the august Sacrifice of the Mass is, in itself, instructive as to what many have been led to believe about the the Mass itself. Something less than Eucharistic Adoration. Interesting because in adoration ‘we’ adore the Lord while in the mass we ‘in precise union with Christ crucified’ adore the Lord.
If you cannot discern the undermining and/or sublimation of the Sacrifice of the Cross and the supreme efficacy of Christ in the Mass in your own words, YFC, there is not much else to say to you. But perhaps others will have eyes to see and ears to hear. This is not a matter of bandying opinions.
Another poster called this “the great real estate deal that is masquerading as a Cathedral.” “My Grace is Sufficient” When the Fullness of Truth is not sufficient or trusted then no amount of money will ever suffice.
Pope Francis Suspends ‘Bishop of Bling’
https://abcnews.go.com/International/pope-francis-suspends-bishop-bling/story?id=20655188
There are Catholic Elementary Schools without Safe jungle gyms for the youngest, or level rubberized sports surfaces for the older ones to run on without having to worry about asphalt playground burns from trips and falls and just plain horse play.
I appreciate the desire to produce Grand Cathedrals that showcase the Faith using modern materials and lighting – and acknowledge that such works (as with Michelangelo in the past) can be Inspirational in a way words cannot…
– But I say again that Without the Catholic Children of Today (particularly those attending Catholic School – which Should be Free to Catholics) – being properly formed as to Faith and shown that We Mean it – and back it up, when we proclaim interest in their welfare and quality of education – otherwise what use the Empty Building to anyone?
The Church Is Its Children – Not Its Buildings – and They should be held as a priority, for the Good of their Souls takes precedence over and above the things of this world, no matter how pretty.
I agree with you about Catholic schools. Once, the bishops got together and proclaimed that Catholic schools should be available for all Catholic children whose parents desire them to attend. Since VII, we have lost generations of students who don’t know the Faith.
Of course, anyone can donate money towards whatever they want, it’s just a shame that we will potentially lose more to secularism.
Catholic schools are only good when the teachers (and parents) accurately know and teach the Faith in entirety.
Otherwise people are fooled into thinking their children are getting a “Catholic” education.
As a condition of employment no teacher should be hired who has not read and agrees to adhere to the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, second edition’ (of 1997).
ALL Seminaries and Convents must teach their students the same.
“…ALL Seminaries and Convents must teach their students the same.”
Couldn’t agree more.
PETER, Excellent post!
Peter, I think you would be surprised had how much there is to learn in the diocesan catechists programs offered for those who want to teach, be pastoral assistants and deacons. Were talking two land three year programs for basics, five year for deacons.
“Peter, I think you would be surprised had how much there is to learn in the diocesan catechists programs offered for those who want to teach, be pastoral assistants and deacons.”
Bob One, I know you WON’T be surprised, (because you once wrote that is was the bishop’s “pleasure” to place a Tabernacle wherever he wanted) to learn that a instructor of the diaconate program in the diocese of Orange taught in class that those who believe that they are actually receiving the physical “Body and Blood” of Christ believe in cannibalism. When the candidate went up after class and respectfully asked the instructor to explain why he had taught this when that is not what the Church teaches the instructor became irritated so the diaconate candidate did not receive an explanation from this instructor. Then before the next class this same excellent candidate received a phone call and was told that he was being dismissed from the program. When you can quietly and privately remove the belief in the divine and physical contents of the Most Blessed Sacrament it helps one to understand why the Tabernacle is shoved in a small room and not placed in the most prominently viewed location in the church. Meanwhile no one is really paying attention to WHAT is privately being taught or concerned with who is guarding the ship. They are too consumed with the immense and overwhelming joy of receiving another 20 million more dollars. What does it profit a soul to receive another 20 million dollar donation at the expense of the faith being dismantled from behind the scenes by systematically emptying it’s divine content.
Peter, the problem goes deeper than that. There are teachers and administrators who give lip service to being Catholic. The result of VII and their “consciences” have, in their minds, given them a “right” to think in direct contradiction to the Church’s Magisterium. Further, there are some who, I have no doubt, would just lie and sign on the dotted line. An additional problem are some clergy who look the other way when these errors arise.
How about an administrator not knowing what the Memorare is, classrooms were not to look “too Catholic” or proclaiming that wearing a cross or holy medal is to be discouraged? This should point out how bad it is in some places, despite the bishop’s knowledge.
Bob One, teachers in one diocese I know of only had to attend a week’s worth of instruction (most of which was “social justice”) and had to have so many continuing education credits every few years (of which the REC counted).
Parents need to beware, but unfortunately some parents also don’t know what the Church teaches and why and we’ve had a couple of lost generations because of this.
Where is the Tabernacle? – Our Lord, Jesus Christ !
It is missing from the picture.
Where are the altar rails/kneelers for those who wish to receive the Lord kneeling?
It is missing from the picture.
No wonder so many do not pray before Mass, but sit around and yak about other things.
Any Church without a visible Tabernacle encourages idolatry – genuflecting or bowing to an object – a table/altar rather than God, Himself.
“Any Church without a visible Tabernacle encourages idolatry – genuflecting or bowing to an object – a table/altar rather than God, Himself.”
Thank you Jacinta. That is very true. Once again we see that not much love went into the placement of the Tabernacle. Shove Our Lord in the smaller and less visible room. The trusting cannot see that this is by DESIGN. Right after the Crystal Cathedral was purchased a representative of the Diocese of Orange was on a Catholic radio show talking about the renovations. This representative said that one of the most important things to get completed was the big kitchen. This representative even laughed and joked about people asking him why they were focusing on completing the kitchen instead before focusing on the inside of the church. Then the representative for the diocese of Orange chuckled and said, “The reason it was so important to finish the kitchen was because CHURROS were a HUGE MONEYMAKER out in the courtyard and they wanted the kitchen to be ready and in full swing. The promotion of illegal immigration has it’s well thought out paybacks. You see Jacinta It was FAR MORE important for that kitchen to be in full swing to sell hundreds of moneymaking churros instead of everyone having a FULL unobstructed view of the Tabernacle. Our Lord is being compromised while the kitchen is is full swing for the moneychangers in the New Megachurch.
The “cathedral” is an abomination for a Catholic edifice. It looks like it would be suitable for entertainment purposes.